Database Develop

Noobies, Roms & Program Compatibility Issues...

I have been a Windows Mobile user for quite some time. I was a lurker in these thread begining in the 2002 & then Blue Angel days. I didn't really start try to contribute until the Kaiser came around. By this time I had spent 2 years watching, learning & reading. I also still consider myself very much new to CE & embeded devices.
One of the biggest complaints, the highest number of posts revolve around program compatibility issues with roms, both OEM & chef prepared.
One of the things most overlooked is the effect that installed programs can have upon each other. But it's not just the apps themselves that can cause issues.
Did you know that apps can both work or not work depending on the order they were installed? Have you ever wondered why a certain program just works for most, but not for you?
Before jumping to conclusions & thinking it must be something that the chef did that prevents you from using that favorite application, think about all of the programs you install & realize that many of them have to interact with parts of the OS at the same time & each program affects both the system & registry & hence can also affect each other in turn.
I have seen suggestions from others, particularly Kyphur, suggesting you to start over with installs. This is good solid advice. Install a few, see that they work & keep a few notes on the order of installation & what has issues when.
One point often overlooked, is that the order in which you install programs can have a great & varied effect on what works & what doesn't.
For instance, I know that with some Dutty roms that my favorite SIP, Teksoft FingerTouch, will not work if I install it before SPB Pocket Plus. I haev issues with BlackBerry Connect many times if I don't install it as one of my first applications.
You need to remember, that these roms are written by many different people. The are partly written by the Manufacturer, partly by Microsoft, influenced by OEM's & carriers, altered by chefs & then you are installing a dozen programs written by at least that number of developers. That leaves a lot of variables in which something can very easily go wrong.
Know your applications, always install your priority apps first, & don't install a high number of apps manually without a reset. You are much more likely to have issues mass installing apps than you are when you install a few, soft-reset, test them out & then continue your installation process.
Today alone, I had 6 messages about programs not working. For a few of these I installed the same rom, & after changing the installation order, I had no issues.
There are too many variables in these systems & their programs to think you can just install everything the same & always have it all work. Sometimes you need to take a little initiative & try something new, a different way.
The same can be said for Auto installers, UC & Shashimi. Installation order can make a difference. Now hopefully I get a few less messages about this, LOL, yeah right.

Great post and contribution as always. I just wonder how many people will actually read this.

My thoughts exactly as I happened to be online during Leo's Diamond v.1 feeding frenzy and the day the TyTn II update came out. Then reading the follow up soon later. Such as wait a minute, this is crap. It doesn't work with Igo , It doesn't work with HHC and on and on. Like Leo or HTC was supposed to load every obscure piece of kit ,to make sure that all of you could load your phones with garbage and they will still work as smooth as day one.
A little prethought and common sense go a long way. Well said GSLEON.
Edit: And congrats AllTheWay on the promo.Well deserved
Just noticed.

AllTheWay said:
Great post and contribution as always. I just wonder how many people will actually read this.
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I read it makes sense too
-McMex

Great post! Now to get the noobs to read...

GSLEON3 said:
This is good solid advice.
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It most certainly is. I didn't know this info before. Thanks GS.

i've read it

footnotes please? lol j/k
Seriously great post how many will read. Make sticky!!!

thanks for the post

Great information GSLeon (as usual). That's why I prefer clean/lite ROMs, and installing the apps myself. I didn't know the reason - just noticed I had less (ie no) problems doing it my way. Now I know why!

This is also basic troubleshooting... This is exactly why when you come to a thread asking for help (particularly cooked roms) the first question the chef will usually ask is:
What all have you, or what do you have installed...
Most chefs wont even begin to consider YOUR issue a problem until this base has been covered. Installation of programs is the #1 cause of issues when dealing with the billion variable cooked roms.
My best advice is to actually spend the time knowing your programs, know what they depend on, know what goes where (kinda like sex ed). If you want everything to work straight out of the box without any fine tuning then your probably in the wrong place!

Excellent Post!!!
Thanks for the info GSLEON!!!!
I have had my Tilt since Oct 07......having never owned a Windows based product ever before I read this forum like is was war and peace.....also never creating a thread just searching, searching, searching!
I have ran into this before and have a word doc with the order to install when flashing anew
Thanks for the great post and all of your help in the past.

I agree with most of what you're saying GS except for one instance that is messing with me. I jus bought a TyTn II to replace my water damaged Tilt. I bought it here from the U.S. but the box says Singapore. I flashed the WM6.1 update and everything is cool except for the HTC weather. This is a HTC application and they should have gotten it right b4 releasing the Rom. Things that come STANDARD with an OEM ROM should automatically work. All the 3rd party stuff that you said I do agree with. Now, anybody know how to fix this little issue?

Well said! Consider myself as wery fresh on CE, this can probobly be repeated to the even more advance user as it is easy to forget that every brick plays a part on how the device acts. When I am starting on a new rom the first 2-3 days goes to the setup, alot of testing and hard resets. Its easy to forgett the fact: what worked yestoday on duttys rom does not automaticly work today on Laurentius26 (or any other chefs) rom.

Panel Manager Downgrade?

I was wondering if it is possible to downgrade back to the original panel manager, and if anyone has the installer for it? I recently downloaded and installed the R3A panel manager, and since then, my X1 has been freezing having errors much more often.
Can anyone help me out here?

It should be possible .. panelmanager only occupies one folder in program files .. replacing all the files should work. Rename the old dir to avoid deleting active EXE.
However I don't have the old files anymore.

I want to do the same.
Where can I find the old Panel Manager?

Sign me up for this as well! Frustrating to get a "we're sorry" all the time.

as far as im aware you just uninstall the updated pannel manager and all will go back to normal.
i too dislike the updated version.

Jasand said:
as far as im aware you just uninstall the updated pannel manager and all will go back to normal.
i too dislike the updated version.
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You just uninstall it? Doesn't that remove the x-panel functionality?

pm me a mail so i can send you the old panel manager (folder). You only have to terminate the posses and then replace the folder.

sorry guys, but what's exactly wrong with the new one? I have no problem with mine and it actually works faster and more fluently.

bronx said:
sorry guys, but what's exactly wrong with the new one? I have no problem with mine and it actually works faster and more fluently.
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After installing the new one, my phone gives me the "we're sorry" screen, and continues "a problem has occurred with PanelContainer.exe"
Ends up with the phone freezing completely, and a soft-reset is required.

Yes, if you unistall the panel manager, the panel interface is gone too.
The problem is, it seems like every time I push the panel button, the thing freezes, or it comes up with a slew of errors, as about 3 programs crash.
Honestly, who put that stupid 'upgrade' here? It's hardly stable at all. What is it, an alpha version? If it were up to me, I'd remove it from the site, because it's more trouble than it's worth, and has nearly made my X1 unusable. I'm considering a hard reset to get things back to normal.

Xuanlong said:
Yes, if you unistall the panel manager, the panel interface is gone too.
The problem is, it seems like every time I push the panel button, the thing freezes, or it comes up with a slew of errors, as about 3 programs crash.
Honestly, who put that stupid 'upgrade' here? It's hardly stable at all. What is it, an alpha version? If it were up to me, I'd remove it from the site, because it's more trouble than it's worth, and has nearly made my X1 unusable. I'm considering a hard reset to get things back to normal.
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Probably you don't read before installing something. Go here and read: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=498934
You have to install ActiveX Deployment first...

lol... look junior... this thing works perfect. do as guy above said. damn... You should be more grateful for having so much extra stuff for free.

Anyway, at least I installed ActiveX_Deployment_signed.CAB before the new panelmanager. The attitude ain't helping, "senior".

ok
the thing is that he should READ MORE before moaning. come on. why so many people cannot live without spoonfeeding????????? why should we agree to read his rants??

I DID install the ActiveX deployment, thank you very much.
It does not work 'perfect', just because one person out of many doesnt have constant problems with it.
If you dont have something helpful to contribute to the topic, dont bother replying. What exactly is it that we're supposed to be reading. I got it from this topic here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=498934
The first post has nothing but a download link, and the 2nd has about 2 lines saying that it's been tested (hard to believe) and urges people to upgrade in caps lock no less.
We're not a bunch of idiots who cant read. And we're not moaning, but if shell out a good deal of money for a smart phone, and you install some update that screws up half of the features, you'd want some answers too.

I install everything but panel cause too many problem. Hard reset mine coming up

Try this one
install it in device then soft reset ....
stock R2a panel manager ......

as im aware you just uninstall the updated pannel manager and all will go back to normal.
i too dislike the updated version.
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I think if this worked then people wouldnt be looking for the R2A panel manager.
I had same problesm as many getting the new R3A cabs to work, and as a result had to just hard reset the phone, after this the phone has been working pretty stable. The Media 2 Panel didnt install, and to be honest until i can easily make playlists it crap to me.
Another thing, I dont know what it is about those that have been on the forum a long time compared to us noobs. Theres no need to talk down to other people, just because a person has made 3 posts, doesnt make them an idiot.
This whole R3A stuff thats come out, probably works fine for those experienced in developing etc... but for those that arent it is difficult for them to get working, like myself. And although this a forum is for the hardcore developers, and not noobs like me, please understand that many like myself really appreciate the work you do here.
If werent for this place, I'd have sent the phone back already and waited for the Idou. So keep it up and be kind to us noobs
Kofi

Xuanlong said:
I DID install the ActiveX deployment, thank you very much.
It does not work 'perfect', just because one person out of many doesnt have constant problems with it.
If you dont have something helpful to contribute to the topic, dont bother replying. What exactly is it that we're supposed to be reading. I got it from this topic here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=498934
The first post has nothing but a download link, and the 2nd has about 2 lines saying that it's been tested (hard to believe) and urges people to upgrade in caps lock no less.
We're not a bunch of idiots who cant read. And we're not moaning, but if shell out a good deal of money for a smart phone, and you install some update that screws up half of the features, you'd want some answers too.
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The second post has to lines ,but it also says that you have ti install ActiveX deployment FIRST. I was just trying to help
Also noone told you to do this update. Those cabs are not SE official updates and there are beta too. It is up to you to take the risk...

I did install the ActiveX thing. I read and understood the post just fine.
Part of the problem is, I had no idea if it was official or not, if it was a beta, or anything. Had I known, I likely would not have installed it, or at least not been surprised when I had problems. If it's beta, or if it's unofficial, it should that instead of "DEFINITIVELY WORTH UPGRADING!!!" Then all of us who read the post as you all keep saying to, would know. It's obviously misleading, I bet a lot of people thought they were getting a stable piece of software.

Complete dummy (guide)

Please can one of you clever people help me. I have read loads of posts and sticky's but remain totally confused. Let me lay it out:
The first smart phone i had was a motorola A1000. using a symbian operating system. This was a quite a few years ago and I played with this loads, flashing it, making it a remote for my tv, etc. Since then I have got married, had kids, got two jobs, blah blah and totally fallen out of the loop. I used an SPVM500 on Orange as standard for a couple of years and then an HTC Touch as standard for the last couple of years. Never bothering to play or flash or fiddle.
Two days ago I upgraded to the HD which I was happyish with until someone told me I had a great phone, the best phone, infact even better than an Iphone, but within a month it would be out of date because it uses an old operating system (which lets be honest, isnt great) and I would have no access to a new iphone type store, easier menu's, iphone rival home screen etc
Now reading on here, it seems i need to flash my phone to a new Windows Mobile 6.5 release, which I assume will then make it the best phone ever again!!
Right, if thats correct and I have understood right so far I have only two questions
1. Why so many of these roms - is there not a simple list where the best one goes on top when its released
2. Is there a link to a very simple, some may even say slightly retarded, explanation on how to hold phone in one hand and magic rom impregnator in the other and let them bump uglies? I have seen a post by crackwhore (I assume you arent really one, althuogh if you are will you sort my phone for me for a small rock?) but still remain unsure of some of the language, processes and of course, which ROM to use
Basically, I want the ROM that makes everything work to the best of its ability. I also need and use office apps and want to put my tomtom mobile 6 on to it too
****** DISCLAIMER ******
Please accept my sincere apologies for being inexcusably slow - I am starting to feel like my dad needing to be tought how to text.

Hi,
Flashing a ROM is now childs play. All you need to do is put Hard SPL on your phone (See Crackwhore's step by step guide or the wiki articles on the Blackstone), and then download and flash your ROM. Hard SPL allow's you to flash custom ROMs BTW.
There is no best ROM by the way. It's too subjective, Alice's favourite ROM maybe nothing like Bob's, etc... I'd try one of the more popular ROM's on the Front page (Personally I started on Dutty's ROM's many years ago). There are so many ROM's because different people like different things (some are WM6.1, some are 6.5, some have lot's of apps, some have none).
Take your time to read through wiki articles, they go through ROM flashing step by step. All the information is there.
Thanks
Dave

1. There is soo many roms because everyone has different likes and dislikes. Some are based on WM6.1 and either 1.19, 1.56 or 1.57. Some are based on WM6.5
People have tried previously to make a list, but to judge which is better is a different story and a whole new can of worms.
Check out the wiki and section on roms. You'll find a list (slightly out of date) listing roms. Link to wiki in my signature
2. If you follow cRaCKwHoRe's guide you'll have no problems. If you don't want to follow the whole guide, I'd recommend using new HSPL 1.56. Someone on "cRaCKwHoRe's guide" thread will help you out if you get stuck. Link to guide and HSPL in my signature.
EDIT
Arrrgh!!!........I see DavidShaw beat me too it!!!! LOL

Then again if you just got your phone, why the need to flash it right away?
I would play with it for a while, install a few apps here, read through some tweaking guides there. Eventually you will learn to use the phone, and thus also learn how to use your phone. If you have been out of the loop for some time, let it grow on you before you manipulate your newly acquired device. It is a great phone, even without all the roms out there. Many aspects of the newer roms out there can be achieved by installing some apps. Granted not all of the newer features are available on the stock rom (calendar tab for example).
Once you start flashing you will always want more, let me tell you that . So enjoy your phone for a while before you start experimenting.

Ati75 said:
Then again if you just got your phone, why the need to flash it right away?
I would play with it for a while, install a few apps here, read through some tweaking guides there. Eventually you will learn to use the phone, and thus also learn how to use your phone. If you have been out of the loop for some time, let it grow on you before you manipulate your newly acquired device. It is a great phone, even without all the roms out there. Many aspects of the newer roms out there can be achieved by installing some apps. Granted not all of the newer features are available on the stock rom (calendar tab for example).
Once you start flashing you will always want more, let me tell you that . So enjoy your phone for a while before you start experimenting.
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Good advice.
Yes definately get to know your device and read up on the wiki. If after all of this you want to flash, at least you'll be prepared

great advice, thanks all - will try and get tt6 working first as thats what is really annoying me most!!

mineistaken said:
great advice, thanks all - will try and get tt6 working first as thats what is really annoying me most!!
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Your problem is that your most likely not using correct version of tomtom. TT7 is out, but you'll need to check which build or version of 7 works on the HD.
Go to Themes, Applications and Software forum and do a search for tomtom. I've started you off with these 2 threads:
TomTom On HD
TomTom - What Version??
Hope this helps

fantastc - thanks so much. will be bedtime reading for me tonight
(its the same tt6 i had on my touch. i have just taken the mini sd card out of one and into the other which has the .cab files and maps already on it)

mineistaken said:
fantastc - thanks so much. will be bedtime reading for me tonight
(its the same tt6 i had on my touch. i have just taken the mini sd card out of one and into the other which has the .cab files and maps already on it)
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I'd keep all your files, especially the maps etc. Go onto one of the threads I listed above, probably the first is the best one and they'll be able to guide you in the right direction. I'd imagine your maps should work on another version.
I have version TomTom 7_910.9185 working with no problems. If you PM with your email address I'll happily email it to you. I do however believe their is some newer versions, though some have had problems with them

Let's say "Official"...

Hi everyone! I recently bought a T-mo Wing on ebay and as it's my first pda phone I did exactly the same every newbie does: I've messed things up.
The first problem was that I started to download and install every app I thought I would use. Soon realized that IN FACT I would use 10% of all that ans started uninstalling things. Till there, I was good, but then I found pocket mechanic pro and its "registry tweaker & cleanup" killed my voice command and made the phone loop forever on bootup unless I remove the memory card. Besides, I have memory shortage problems and lots of things I will never use like myFaves, t-zones, tons of icons and silly images .... So my questions are ....Is there any T-mo "official" ROM with all the T-mo stuff removed?? I don't have problems with the rest of the apps and bricking the phone is not an option: I'm latin american!! used wing was really a financial effort for me!! The second question would be: Is there any way to restore the registry keys that pocket mechanic erased?? I know the answers might have been already posted but I've been browsing the forums for about 6 hours with no success ..... Can anyone help me on this??
Thanks
Wow.... really long

alvarete62 said:
Hi everyone! I recently bought a T-mo Wing on ebay and as it's my first pda phone I did exactly the same every newbie does: I've messed things up.
The first problem was that I started to download and install every app I thought I would use. Soon realized that IN FACT I would use 10% of all that ans started uninstalling things. Till there, I was good, but then I found pocket mechanic pro and its "registry tweaker & cleanup" killed my voice command and made the phone loop forever on bootup unless I remove the memory card. Besides, I have memory shortage problems and lots of things I will never use like myFaves, t-zones, tons of icons and silly images .... So my questions are ....Is there any T-mo "official" ROM with all the T-mo stuff removed?? I don't have problems with the rest of the apps and bricking the phone is not an option: I'm latin american!! used wing was really a financial effort for me!! The second question would be: Is there any way to restore the registry keys that pocket mechanic erased?? I know the answers might have been already posted but I've been browsing the forums for about 6 hours with no success ..... Can anyone help me on this??
Thanks
Wow.... really long
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The easiest way to go back is to do a hard reset. (Hold the two softkeys and press the soft reset key.) As far as "official" ROM, there isn't, but there are a lot of third party ROMs. If you hardSPL your phone (which runs the slight risk of bricking your phone) then you brick-PROOF your phone.

Wow!! I can't believe you ...I mean YOU, took som time to answer my post!! I read lots of stuff here made by you. Thanks man! I'm really honored.
The thing is that if I hard reset my wing all the T-mo stuff will be there again, and some of it is non removable. There are lots of pictures and icons that I won't ever use. What if I take the latest T-mo ROM and delete all that without modifying anything else?? I mean, no t-zones, no my faves and no TONS of avatar pictures.... would that be possible?? Again, thanks for answering

alvarete62 said:
Wow!! I can't believe you ...I mean YOU, took som time to answer my post!! I read lots of stuff here made by you. Thanks man! I'm really honored.
The thing is that if I hard reset my wing all the T-mo stuff will be there again, and some of it is non removable. There are lots of pictures and icons that I won't ever use. What if I take the latest T-mo ROM and delete all that without modifying anything else?? I mean, no t-zones, no my faves and no TONS of avatar pictures.... would that be possible?? Again, thanks for answering
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lol. Thanks for thinking so highly of me.
It's possible, you have to dump the ROM and then recook it, though.
You could also wait for my SuperJustKitchen and build your own custom ROM. ^_^ But either way, you HAVE to HardSPL. There are no ROMs that can be flashed with the stock SPL other than the stock one.

That's exactly what I'm going to do!! I'll wait for your SuperJustKitchen and remove all unneeded stuff from the latest official T-mo Rom. In the meantime, I will try to recover my voice command without hard resetting just for fun. I really don't need it because my spoken english is horrible and by the time it worked, almost never recognized what I said . Anyway, it really annoys me that a supposed registry cleanup made by pocket mechanic messed up the system that way. The Wizcode forum has a solution that actually works just for the full version of MVC. Nor upgrade nor OEM are fixed by that "patch". I would like to know if there's any way to decompile it and make the corrections manually. It's supposed to restore some deleted registry keys but I couldn't find wich ones ....Would that be possible??

If it's a cab, it can turned into a OEM/EXT package which lets you see the registry keys by themselves.

Sorry for the delay....
Hi again! It was not a .CAB .... It was a [email protected] .exe file. Tried to open with winRAR and 7zip but with no success. Finally i found the dump of the .reg file that voice command uses. I was not able to import it (there are some path errors and I know NOTHING about reg scripting), so i had to write all the keys and values manually. It worked!!!! After a soft reset voice command was there! After that I disabled it because my english sucks and VC could not understand what i said ..... but still works!! Still waiting for your kitchen to make a new ROM for my wing .... Thanks again for taking the time to answer me ...

I don't know well, but...
Maybe you can have good luck in hard-resetting and do not enter into customization, but soft-resetting.
Another way is going into Extended ROM and analizing the .cab files there, and erasing some of them (better if you save them into another place).
Please wait till someone "better than me" will confirm those data I told.
On the other way, if you don't like T-Mo ROMs the best you can do is Hard-SPL and flashing a new radio+ROM. You by yourself realized Ivan has good ROM's. And the one I'm using now is also good.

Suggest a Rom and GUI for me.

OK, my first post so be gentle.
I have MDA Vario that has been flashed with TPCElite series V11 MEGA wm6.5 23017. It also has the touchflo GUI running. Now having tried it for a week (only just purchased it a week ago) I can say that I'm not a fan of the touchflo prog. It seems to hang on occasions and I often end up selecting something I didn't want only to find the phone connecting to the net. So I have switched it off. There is a windows default one that is working fine, but I can't see a way to customise the menu so I can add what I want to it.
So my dilemma. Do I flash with a "lite" rom and add a GUI myself afterwards - this way I can uninstall it if I don't like it. Or should I just leave it deselected and install a new one? Will this have any performance/memory issues - ie is the lite rom a better way to go.
I had a Mio PDA with iLauncher on it and I liked the ability to add my own shortcuts etc.
If I should flash can anyone recommend a stable reliable rom. Also is there a better GUI? Been looking at Manila 2D v2 but I want to be able to customise the main menu and I don't want it sluggish.
One final thing. Is it possible to get the phone to ask permission before connecting via gprs rather than scurrying around for the disconnect. I've looked through the menus but can't find anything. Don't mind using it if I want it, just fed up of it dialing it by mistake -(I have sausage fingers.)

i recommend the t.i.r element v5 rom. ive been thru many roms including the tpc series that you have tried and i find that t.i.r element v5 is the best w/ smooth graphics, great gui (full landscape support etc.) i cant post a link as of now since i am new to posting on xda so please look it up and give it a shot!

Is there a CLI version of a rom for this phone or is someone just trying too sound fancy? Since when is touchflu a GUI? I am totally confused.
Do I flash with a "lite" rom and add a GUI myself afterwards
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Uh my head is hurting make it stop.. SOMEONE REPLIED TO THIS?? awmg
If I should flash can anyone recommend a stable reliable rom. Also is there a better GUI
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I am so confused, it's like trying to mess with a womans bra (Full Landscape support) for the first time, what do I do.. do I call her new hair doo a pair of panties? AAAHHHHHHHH
Stylez close this **** down.. REASON.... Doesn't make any sense at all..
I used the GUI version of this forum to reply.. Thanks.

hi DTBrum,
touchflo - i never liked it too, don't know which files are responsible for its running and if it could be removed, seems like it's part of needed htc drivers to me, but this will switch it off completely:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\OEM\TFLOSettings]
"EnableScroll"=dword:00000000
"EnableCube"=dword:00000000
you need a registry editor to change those values.
===
you can't replace gui, or you can theoretically but what you mean is sort of launcher, or today manager. I tried more and didn't like any, they all seems to be laggy to me.
windows in default uses today screen and start menu, it's the same way as in pc edition, there are folders with shortcuts in them for start menu
look in \windows\start menu folder. and on today screen, you can set what you want to see there in settings/today
I use start replacement called quickmenu which is a very small prg with lots of tweaks.
if you don't like those fancy launchers and controls, better you make your own rom. it's very easy with tools from xda. nearly all custom roms lite or full you'll find here have some kind of launchers and today replacement already in them and it's hard to remove or disable them.
there is a lot of different apps like iLauncher, you can install/uninstall.
no one will recommend you any custom rom here, you need to go through trying one after another because everybody's preferences differs. look in wiki.
automatic connect. no, there is no way to disable this. you can use app called 'nodata' but then you'll have to run it to enable/disable every time you want to use internet. But it solves problems in roaming.
Some programs can be set to not auto dial. and another option is, you can set a fake internet connection, make it default and then when you want to go online you'll dial the real one manually. But you may find that some programs would not want to use other then default connection.
and don't get discouraged here on forum, some people are smart here, true, but not all of us here get born that way.

Thankx for the replies.
What I found with touchflo was that there are occasions where I try to scroll from left to right and nothing happens, then all of a sudden I find it has selected something like maps or internet and the phone is trying to connect to the net. Then it starts responding normally. So as a front end user interface for me I'm not that keen on it. Also I can't see a way to remove the categories sucj as maps, and add my own. I have a registry editor and will try changing the values suggested and see if that helps. I'll do a search for the other bits recommended.
Apologies ChumleyEX, not sure if I used the correct terminology. For me a program such as touchflo is an alternative GUI that sits on top of the windows GUI. Just want to know if there are better, more reliable ones. Doesn't have to be fancy. I want to be able to customise it and for it to be quick and responsive.

Sorry I'm sure I was too harsh, I was feeling a little too good last night.

No problem ChumleyEX - no harm done.
Papo - thanks for you time and help, you cleared a few things up for me. Registry edited and touchflo now disabled.
As I said I've only had this device a week and only just found this site recently, so I'm not really up on the terminology so I'm hoping you can look past my shortcomings please. I'll get there. I'm no novice with pc's or pda's but I'm not in the same league as most people on here I admit.
My question about installing an alternative to touchflo was because some of these other programs such as ilauncher like to be installed to the device memory rather than storage card. I don't want to find I start running low on resources so I was contemplating flashing the phone with a wm6.5 lite version with all the MS bloatware removed and adding a launcher/today screen manager afterwards. At least this way if I don't like a particular one I could un-install that. I have no option to remove touchflo.
I was hoping that by describing what I was after people would recommend something that fits the bill. But for now I keep looking at the roms and reading the comments until I find one I like the look of. There is some really nice work here on this site - so tempted to give it a go. I guess we all like different things so it's a matter of personal choice really. Key for me is functionality/responsiveness. It's no good if the interface gets in the way no matter how good it looks.
Off to read some reviews of roms on here now. I'll check out t.i.r element v5 as suggested by agent1001 first.

dude, stop fretting and just try out as many ROMs as you can...and remember to search and read a LOT! it will help in the long run to build your concepts.
i have TWO more suggestions/clarifications for you:
1. you might have big fingers, but what i suspect is that you are using your device as if it has a capacitive screen...which it doesn't. the kaiser (like many htc phones) has a resistive screen. essentially, what this means is that the screen will respond best with a good amount of pressure, applied at a point. so the best suggestion i can give you that will tremendously improve your experience with the device is...use your finger NAILS! the effect is as if you are using a stylus and once you get used to it, any "GUI" will become usable.
2. what you call a "GUI" is not a GUI, technically. this is what chumleyex was alluding to. these "GUIs" run as today screen plugins. they are just that...they are "today screen plugins"...also called "home screen" in other contexts of discussion. you can have many such plugins installed on your device. you can even have many such plugins running at once on your today screen. however, some take over the today screen completely, so you can only use them exclusively. manila2d/manila3d, spb mobile shell, and quite a few others are such kinds of today screen plugins. installing multiple such plugins only takes up storage space. RUNNING multiple such plugins is like running many applications at once...which will consume memory and may slow down the phone, etc, etc.
as always, you should have read the forum rules...which clearly state that "best of" threads or "suggest me a <insert requirement here>" style threads are against the forum rules. which leads me to believe that you probably haven't read the other "stickies" and "wikis" either. start there and then you'll find yourself asking a lot less basic questions that clutter up the forum. don't be surprised if this thread is closed soon by a forum mod. cheers.

Thanks ASCIIker - screen is more responsive with more pressure. Guess I was worried about cracking it.
I did do loads of reading before posting - mainly to do with how to, hard spl, soft spl, roms, radio threads. Sorry if I missed the bit about asking for recommendations.

DTBrum said:
I don't want to find I start running low on resources so I was contemplating flashing the phone with a wm6.5 lite version with all the MS bloatware removed and adding a launcher/today screen manager afterwards. At least this way if I don't like a particular one I could un-install that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get the feeling that you think those fancy things in full custom ROMs are taking up space. they are not. and not using them, disabling them, or deleting shortcuts from start menu would do the same as uninstalling.
you've got:
flash memory - (ROM)
int. memory - think about it as HDD: depends, typicaly little over 100MB
RAM, operating memory, like on PC another 100MB: to be used by progs.
those names differs, to add confusion, some refers to int.memory as ROM
MS bloatware & fancy stuff from custom ROMs which you don't want could still rest in peace in ROM and not bothering you. you'll still have your 100MB int.mem. And as long as they are not actively running you still will have 100 RAM and no processor power used. but exactly like mentioned every plugin on today screen means it's running too. get an fdc task manager or alternative to see all processes and other stuff running. (not just tasks) You can find a way to disable nearly everything.
I have no option to remove touchflo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think there is any. even with ultra lite, i could be mistaken with this, but i tried hard and it looks like it's part of required htc drivers. so you only could disable it...at least! i hated it too no matter about fingers. it seems better on htc pro2 anyway.
But for now I keep looking at the roms and reading the comments until I find one I like the look of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep, the look would be the main difference i'll say.
but if you want functionality/responsiveness, than you probably better stick with using start button and today screen without unnecessary additions.
* installing on SD card means it will go much slower and (at least on my kaiser) will sometime create errors on card from crashed apps and when I dropped phone or it died w/o shutdown or when contacts on SD card get loosed. many times I even lost complete SD contents.
You have 100MB of int.mem!! it would love to be used by progs.
I suggest you to try all of available and up-to-date custom ROMs then after getting an idea of what is doing what, just mix your own rom. it's a matter of check-in what you want inside basically. and you can add your own stuff too. like programs you buy or are not in any ROM. I have over 110MB of programs fitted in ROM and still 100MB int.mem. and speed of the device and ram is not affected too, because i let only 3 - 4 apps from that running in background.

Well I've tried flashing it and had to visit the toilet as things didn't go well.
I flashed with a lite rom, plan being to leave enough free space on the device to install a nice front end/today screen/touchflo etc to the device when I settled on one I liked.
Rom flashed fine - quite like it.
Radio didn't go well. Got stuck at the dreaded tri coloured screen.
Mtty.exe didn't recover it either.
Visited toilet.
Flashed back to standard rom from manufacturer. All now back up and running.
Have changed underpants.
At least I was able to use the info on here to get it back up and running OK.
Problem was a write error flashing the suggested radio - at 99% got an error 226.

DTBrum said:
plan being to leave enough free space on the device to install
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
check my previous post.
try flashing from SD card, a lot of troubles with cable/pc/connector
format small (256MB) SD card with FAT32,
rename ruu_signed.nbh file to KAISIMG.NBH place on root of SD
hold camera button and start or reset pda

I think to be honest I'm a little paranoid about keeping the device memory free. The reason is my wife has an O2 Orbit which was running wm5. It has been updated to WM6 and she has very little free storage memory at all on the device to the point where we have struggled getting some programs installed. I know most give you the option to install to storage card or device, but some don't. Also the ones that do install on the storage card often put some files onto the device, such as help or configuration files.
I know this HTC has a lot more memory so it probably isn't an issue in reality.
I'm up to speed about the different types of memory and whether an app is consuming processing power or just storage space depending upon if it running or not. I just didn't have a chance to read your reply before I posted- wife wanted the PC back. And I was relieved just to have the phone back working.
Papo - thanks for you help. Really appreciate it.

I had my tilt for 2 years and never worried about memory.

OK, flashed the phone a couple of times yesterday and I've now found a rom I like a lot. Even the GUI - touchflo - works like a dream and with the programs that came with the rom I can even customise it how I like. It's smooth, quick and I am yet to discover a bug.
I'll give it a run for a couple of weeks and if I decide to keep this then I'll donate.
Interestingly I flashed back to stock rom from T Mobile through links I found on here. Worked without a problem, provided a 6ft+ 16stone bloke is happy with everything in pink. So I then flashed back to the standard HTC rom wm6.1 and had lots of problems. Basic things like selecting tick boxes didn't even work well.
I understand that everyone wants different things from their phones, how they look etc and that is why it is impossible to say which rom is best. But through this site, I have a customised phone that runs so smooth and quickly and looks damn smart. So at the moment I am well chuffed.
The only really difficulty I encountered was I lost all my contacts. Activesync wouldn't restore them and the backup I took was incomplete as I only backed up the sim and not the phone. D'oh. Anyway I've now sorted this out as I found all the old contacts in outlook deleted items. I restored them back to the contacts folder and synced them again and it's all now back up and running.
Off to have a play
If she lets me I may even flash the wifes O2 Orbit XDA. It's been upgraded from wm5 to wm6 and the new rom leaves very little free memory on the device itself and we do struggle at times getting some software onto it. The version of TomTom I have doesn't let you choose where to install it to, it just goes onto the device. I have manually moved it back to the SD card and made new shortcuts etc, but I feel a new rom from this site would be the way to go.
Thank you to all who helped me.

DTBrum said:
difficulty I encountered was I lost all my contacts. Activesync wouldn't restore them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
activeSync & outlook played tricks on me too, deleting or doubling all contacts... even easier than backing up by backup program, is to copy 'RAW' database in pda before re-flashing. it's all in one file called PIM.VOL in root of phone. calendar is there as well. you can copy this to SD and upon reflashing copy back to root of pda and see what PC's outlook will have to say to it. or just keep on SD as 2nd backup.
note, the file may be locked by running programs (contacts, messages, home plugin) kill them from taskman in that case.
The version of TomTom I have doesn't let you choose where to install it to, it just goes onto the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tomtom app is two files tomtom nav.exe and data.chk, put them anywhere you like and the rest, config files, will be created by it.
but it runs really slow from SD. and taking 13MB, so again, it's best to have them in ROM.