hi, all. there is a rumor going around that the tilt will have problems if we frequently use non-original charger or usb cable (the one came with tilt) to charge the phone or transfer data such as causing the tilt not functioning or possibly burn out the device/battery, is that true??? do we always use the original usb cable and charger for charging the ATT tilt or transfering data? cuz I m currently using a usb car adapter to charge the tilt. I m really scare of it if this rumor is true. I don't want my tilt get burnt out. Please confirm or disconfirm it.. many thx
usb from the computer is always 5 volts and .5mAmp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus
thats the power pda's use to charge with
unless the computer in question is really defect and provide a non std power
or you charge with a ac charger which provide a different power
you should be safe
Rudegar said:
usb from the computer is always 5 volts and .5mAmp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus
thats the power pda's use to charge with
unless the computer in question is really defect and provide a non std power
or you charge with a ac charger which provide a different power
you should be safe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the confirmation. seriously, I didn't believe that a usb cable will cause such serious problems since there is only minor difference in the original cable and a regular usb cable. they all look the same internally except for the terminal shape.
as an extra safety precaution, i wouldn't start the car with the tilt plugged in. might be nothing, might be something. once the car is running then i'd plug the tilt in....
i dont know tho, it could be viable. i remember the dude @ att saying that the tilt uses a proprietary mini usb connection w/ a different set of pins, it could be that the different pins apply or distribute power/data to different places & thus could render a device in operable? just my 2 cents.
Don't plug the phone in while the moon is out and the planets are aligned, it could cause the charger to spike and then brike your phone. j/k
My buddy had a problem with his USB. I think he put in a funky cable and it bent the connectors that are in the mini usb hole. Careful careful.
I would have to agree with that any usb be fine but be careful. When I first got my tilt awhile back I got this free usb car charger with it. It worked fine but something broke on the inside of it cause i could hear rattling inside. Prob a chip or something to tell the charger to stop charging if batttery is full. Well long story short I fried my usb connection and could not charge my phone or sync it. End up exchanging my Tilt out for a new one.
I am using the same USB cable to charge and sync since my Cingular 8125. I never charge using AC power.
As for car chargers, here is a simple way to check for potential power surges during starting:
1) Turn your key to "ON" but don't actually crank it. Let the radio come on and start playing. Now start the engine. Did your radio cut off during ignition?
-If Yes, unplug devices before starting because your car is not wired to supply continuous power to its outlets.
2) With your car off, and the key removed, plug in your phone. Does it start charging?
-If No, wait until the engine is running before plugging in your phone.
I am able to keep my phone connected at all times because as part of my ~$2000 audio upgrade, I also added an industrial-grade circuit breaker (not a fuse, an actual circuit breaker) between my battery and the inside of the car. In 4 years of running it, I have yet to stress it enough to pop.
Oh nice, I haven't seen too many breakers in a car. Saves on those uber expensive fuses.
The Tmobile guys at my store strongly discourage using any other brand chargers on HTC phones. It's not the connector they claim is the issue but the amperage. When I first got my tytn2, my wife's motorola usb wall-wart would work, as well as my RIM wall-wart. Now neither of them do. Only the HTC chargers will work on the phone. Someone theorized that the other company chargers might bend a pin or something in the phone rendering them useless.
The amperage idea doesn't fly with me, as the moto and RIM are less amperage than the HTC. I'd be more worried about supplying too much current than not enough.
I bought a sweet 3 in 1 charger kit from frys for 20 dolla..
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Be jealous it's ok!
http://www.wirelessemporium.com/pro...-1-mobile-phone-charger-motorola-razr2-v9.asp
Scott_F said:
The Tmobile guys at my store strongly discourage using any other brand chargers on HTC phones. It's not the connector they claim is the issue but the amperage. When I first got my tytn2, my wife's motorola usb wall-wart would work, as well as my RIM wall-wart. Now neither of them do. Only the HTC chargers will work on the phone. Someone theorized that the other company chargers might bend a pin or something in the phone rendering them useless.
The amperage idea doesn't fly with me, as the moto and RIM are less amperage than the HTC. I'd be more worried about supplying too much current than not enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, Of course store guys are going to say that. That's what HTC says. And Store Guys are nothing but Puppets who read papers given to them by corporate and they recite them. Plus they can charge you more, there for make more money, if they sell you a OEM Charger then a "compatible" charger.
stanGib said:
i dont know tho, it could be viable. i remember the dude @ att saying that the tilt uses a proprietary mini usb connection w/ a different set of pins, it could be that the different pins apply or distribute power/data to different places & thus could render a device in operable? just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_ExtUSB
Plus the cable I got with my Tilt works just like a Standard USB cable so I don't think there is an issue. But what I'd like to see is the Numbers. Using the "HTC USB Sync cable" and a standard USB cable what amps are being sent. And What does the Device Prefer?
It can't use the name mini usb if it's not mini usb. I have a zippy belkin mini usb and it works greeeeat.
stanGib said:
i dont know tho, it could be viable. i remember the dude @ att saying that the tilt uses a proprietary mini usb connection w/ a different set of pins, it could be that the different pins apply or distribute power/data to different places & thus could render a device in operable? just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just make sure that your car charger has a fuse. If needed, change the fuse to a lower type (one that is just above the recommended for the Tilt, .5a is what I think it draws at). This will protect it from spikes when you start the car.
Scott_F said:
The Tmobile guys at my store strongly discourage using any other brand chargers on HTC phones. It's not the connector they claim is the issue but the amperage. When I first got my tytn2, my wife's motorola usb wall-wart would work, as well as my RIM wall-wart. Now neither of them do. Only the HTC chargers will work on the phone. Someone theorized that the other company chargers might bend a pin or something in the phone rendering them useless.
The amperage idea doesn't fly with me, as the moto and RIM are less amperage than the HTC. I'd be more worried about supplying too much current than not enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used so many different types of USB cables and/or chargers on my Tilt. I have not once had an issue. Just make sure the power ratings are correct and you're good.
Whilst I normally subscribe to the view that the HTC branded part is no better than a decent quality 3rd party part, I have had issues with non-HTC chargers.
I manage the BlackBerries at work, and have tried numerous BB miniUSB chargers (The one with the cord hard wired and the one which is effectively a mains plug to female USB) and neither work with my Kaiser.
I also had issues with car cigarette lighter to USB adapters. As soon as I obtained an official HTC car charger, all the problems went away.
Scott_F said:
...
I'd be more worried about supplying too much current than not enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't supply more current then the device can consume. The number on the charger just shows the highest value of a current the charger can produce without dropping the voltage.
I bought a Cell phone & USB charging kit from BestBuy today and my Tilt got fried when I connected it to this charger after the car had already started. I just noticed the charger output is 5.3V 0.5A whereas the battery pack is only 3.7V ???
hey improtant question. i think that the usb port in the kaiser actually dose get messed up using other chargers. i belive this becouse i used to be able to charge with any charger like some of you but now only htc's charger works. and that sucks but whatever the bad part is the headphones downt work any more. cany any one else that has to use htc's charger confirm that the headphones no longer work?
I've seen issues with various chargers (including one for the Dopod 838pro, Motorolla, and no-name car chargers), where I've seen it not activate the charging mode on the PDA intermittently. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to conclusively rule out that the HTC original chargers will work 100% of the time either, since that particular Tilt unit wasn't mine.
Also for some reason, I've had this accessory fail to connect to the headphones port after using it for a while (with a car charger connected). Fortunately, i had bought a few (for myself and others), and the port on the HTC is still working. So maybe you can try another headphone accessory and see if it's really the port on the HTC that is dead.
From my personal experience, testing, and reading on these forums, it appears that there are three conditions that need to be satisfied for reliable use of the USB port:
First - The Mechanical Fit
Standard mini-USB connecters DO NOT fit the same as the HTC extended USB implementation. To address this, I use the HTC signal splitter (headphone+charger/sync) on almost all standard USB cables for chargeing. It's fully compliant with the HTC in all ways and has added benefits. (see below)
Second - Pinout
The charging circuit in the Tilt (and others) can be finicky with regard to whether or not it works using a standard USB cable. The HTC splitter solves that and allows slow charging from virtually any USB compliant source. I also have the adapter from http://www.pocketpctechs.com/ in my car that even allows you to select the fast charge or slow charge pinout via a switch. (VERY COOL) This works great because I'm usually looking for the fast charge in the car. (Note... fast charge is disabled when transferring data via USB)
Third - Electrical Spec
Voltage is 5V for all USB outputs. Spikes generated in a car are pretty tough to transmit past the step down circuit/ic in the auto USB power adapters. I have never heard of a device being damaged by a spike from the car via one of these adapters. The chip itself would fail to open before frying the USB power client (aka the Phone).
Current draw for these phones is 0.5A for slow charging and around 1A+ for fast charging. This is determined by the pinout of the cable you are using. Slow charge is the default on all data type cables. Some cables sold as "charging cables" enable the fast charge. (The PPC Techs cable has the switch to do this) I recommend using at least 750mA chargers to allow the phone to have enough current to run the gps, bluetooth, etc with the screen brightness turned up and still have a small excess trickle to charge the battery.
I hope this summary helps a bit.
Cheers!
Related
Anyone else having trouble with their car charger not charging their at&t tilt? I have 2 aftermarket car chargers from cellphoneshop.com and having problems. Im using DCS wm6.1 v1.5 rom and radio 1.64.06.04. I plug the charger in, the red light on the charge goes on, the orange light on the phone goes on, the battery status from quickmenu in the top right corner blinks on/off, the phone says its charging, but the phone isnt charging. The battery is going down like it normally would while all this is going on. Ive tried 2 different car chargers on 2 different vehicles and still the same problem. I dont believe its the car chargers since the 1st one i used is the one ive been using for the past 3 weeks now with no problems and the second car charger i tried is the same as the first but brand new out of the box both with the same problem. I just flashed to this rom today and this is the first time trying to charge my phone with this rom via car charger so maybe its just the rom? Im stuck at work til 11 so i cant test it on my usb or home charger til then. Any ideas or do u guys think its just the rom? Thanks! Ive never had this problem with duttys 2 newest roms, just this one i flashed back to today.
Sometimes the orange charging light on the phone will flash on/off super fast! Also sometimes the orange light will disappear and while its off the phone will still lie to me and say its charging.
is there anything running on the phone when you plugged it in? my phone wont charge after i've been using 3g for some time and it heats up. also is there any other device you can test the charger with?
XtreMe_G said:
is there anything running on the phone when you plugged it in? my phone wont charge after i've been using 3g for some time and it heats up. also is there any other device you can test the charger with?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, i have java, hotmail, and palm messaging on in the background but having programs on in the background never made a difference before nor did being in 3g coverage which is what im in 95 percent of the day living in southern california. No other phones to try the chargers on. Ill try turning the phone off for a bit and charge it and see what happens. That would determine if the coverage or backgrounds apps are stunting the charge.
Im convinced its the rom now. When the phone is powered off the orange light is there showing its charging then after a few minutes disappears. I then unplug the charger and plug it back in but this time instead of an orange light theres a red light that stays on! I then unplug the charger and the second i unplug it the red light goes away and the phone turns on by itself. I dont think a simple car charger can do all that to a phone. I really liked this rom too. Oh well, just gotta charge my phone when i get home on the home charger if that works and reflash back to duttys march 08 rom.
Anyone else have similar car charging problems?
SOLUTION
It's not the ROM, it's the charger. Generic chargers are not wired the same as HTC chargers. HTC shorts pins 4-5 on the mini-USB end of the cable signaling the phone to enter into charge mode. Normal mini-usb chargers don't and so it's intermittent. If you purchase an HTC charger OR modify a cable the problem will be solved.
If you have other HTC phones, you'll see similar issues, especially when the battery is <10%.
The phenomenon is pretty well documented elsewhere on this site.
Regards,
liquidsilver said:
It's not the ROM, it's the charger. Generic chargers are not wired the same as HTC chargers. HTC shorts pins 4-5 on the mini-USB end of the cable signaling the phone to enter into charge mode. Normal mini-usb chargers don't and so it's intermittent. If you purchase an HTC charger OR modify a cable the problem will be solved.
If you have other HTC phones, you'll see similar issues, especially when the battery is <10%.
The phenomenon is pretty well documented elsewhere on this site.
Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, you could be right because the stock home charger that comes with the phone works perfect charging. So do i have to buy a ridiculus $40 car charger then from at&t? Guess its too good to be true when the generic is only 4 bucks.
i use my car charger all the time when i am driving and i dont expereince any of these problems... aside from the fact that it chrages slower then the AC charger but its understandable...
liquidsilver said:
It's not the ROM, it's the charger. Generic chargers are not wired the same as HTC chargers. HTC shorts pins 4-5 on the mini-USB end of the cable signaling the phone to enter into charge mode. Normal mini-usb chargers don't and so it's intermittent. If you purchase an HTC charger OR modify a cable the problem will be solved.
If you have other HTC phones, you'll see similar issues, especially when the battery is <10%.
The phenomenon is pretty well documented elsewhere on this site.
Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive never had problems though with these generic charges with other roms and yes i've charged my phone from 0 to 100 percent on the generic car charger i have before. This is the first time ive charged my phone with this rom and with the car charger so thats why i would say its the rom since it has charged many other roms perfectly. Do you know of a good place to buy an htc offical car charger? The best i've seen on the web so far is 25 bucks.
I'm going to get one of the USB car chargers.
Even the chargers ATT sells can fail. They are just repackaged junk for the most part with low current ratings.
$25 is pretty good for an HTC charger. Highly recommended to go this route.
Those who have success with the generics are just lucky as the chargers don't meet specs. The odds are good that it will let you down someday.
As I mentioned above, there's a lot of info on this topic already posted elsewhere on the forum.
Got an official HTC Charger (in at&t packaging even) from eBay seller "NakedCellPhone" for $10 + about $5 shipping.
They're marked as for the Cingular 2125 & a few other older models but it works perfectly.
DOES THE HOME CHARGER (ac) WORK???
If so, it DOES & only USB to PC or Automotive charging is affected, you've most likely damaged your USB port pins while trying to soft reset.
Take a look at the USB port on the device. If it is curved or lower on the righ side, congratulations, you are both the Perp & the victim. The USB port was poorly placed by HTC, & the stylus was poorly placed by you.
Sometimes it can be (very gently & at your own risk) bent back into shape depending on which one of the two usb port versions your device has.
BTW, if you have a business account they are only $15.00
Not all chargers are the same.
The stock OEM charger has a rating of 1A. Most car chargers that I have seen have 500mA to 800mA rating. In most cases, with these lower current chargers, you won't notice a difference except for possible longer charging time. Though, if your battery is really low, <20% or so, your car charger may not work.
I have experienced this phenomenon not only on HTC devices like the 8925 and the 8125, but also the Siemens SX66 as well.
As a side note, I've read somewhere that charging using a USB cable to your computer allows for 500mA, UNLESS the PDA is syncing through ActiveSync when the PDA asks permission to draw 1A of power. If I remember correctly, the OEM charger shorts a couple of pins to simulate this situation, but of course, the power converter/inverter is also rated at the higher current as well.
I'm not sure shorting the pin on a lesser rated charger is going to have much effect, except possibly breaking your device or cable.
Cardyin
I just don't understand how the generic can charge my phone everyday for almost 3 weeks now then all of a sudden stop and acting so weird, see posts 2 and 3. Then i try my second generic car charger right out of the box and does the same thing. Yes, my phone charges perfectly through the usb on the computer and the home charger it came with so i dont think its the port on the phone thats messed up. Guess ill have to invest in an official htc car charger and see how it goes.
GSLEON3 said:
DOES THE HOME CHARGER (ac) WORK???
If so, it DOES & only USB to PC or Automotive charging is affected, you've most likely damaged your USB port pins while trying to soft reset.
Take a look at the USB port on the device. If it is curved or lower on the righ side, congratulations, you are both the Perp & the victim. The USB port was poorly placed by HTC, & the stylus was poorly placed by you.
Sometimes it can be (very gently & at your own risk) bent back into shape depending on which one of the two usb port versions your device has.
BTW, if you have a business account they are only $15.00
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 2 last pins on the right side are down just a notch from the rest of the port but its pretty much always been like that, even when the car charger was working. Only having problem with the car charger, computer and ac charging works fine. I'll try to move the pins up and align them but its so minor how much they are down.
cardyin said:
Not all chargers are the same.
The stock OEM charger has a rating of 1A. Most car chargers that I have seen have 500mA to 800mA rating. In most cases, with these lower current chargers, you won't notice a difference except for possible longer charging time. Though, if your battery is really low, <20% or so, your car charger may not work.
I have experienced this phenomenon not only on HTC devices like the 8925 and the 8125, but also the Siemens SX66 as well.
As a side note, I've read somewhere that charging using a USB cable to your computer allows for 500mA, UNLESS the PDA is syncing through ActiveSync when the PDA asks permission to draw 1A of power. If I remember correctly, the OEM charger shorts a couple of pins to simulate this situation, but of course, the power converter/inverter is also rated at the higher current as well.
I'm not sure shorting the pin on a lesser rated charger is going to have much effect, except possibly breaking your device or cable.
Cardyin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys think this charger is worth a shot or just pay the extra 20 bucks for the official? http://www.semsons.com/hipocarchwim.html It says its power output it 850mA!
Here is the cheapest original htc car charger i could find, www.talkietech.com/htcvecarpoch.html Heres some specs, OEM HTC Car Charger (81551) Features:
HTC Cell Phone Vehicle Charger allows phone to be charged on the road
Original Genuine HTC car charger guarantees maximum durability and performance
High quality aluminum brushed LED indicator light
Part# 81551
Compatible with:
HTC Cingular 8525, Cingular 8125, HTC Cingular 2125
HTC T-Mobile Dash, T-Mobile Wing, T-Mobile MDA and T-Mobile SDA
HTC T-Mobile Shadow, HTC Touch, Sprint Touch
It doesn't say though it works with the 8925 or tilt, would it still work on my at&t tilt? I think it would since my tilt's home charger charges my 8525 fine. What do you guys think?
deeznuts said:
The 2 last pins on the right side are down just a notch from the rest of the port but its pretty much always been like that, even when the car charger was working. Only having problem with the car charger, computer and ac charging works fine. I'll try to move the pins up and align them but its so minor how much they are down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can garuntee they didn't come "down just a notch". There ar multiple threads about this issue. Sometimes it causes auto chargers to fail completely & somtimes it just causes a bad connection.
When the device was new, it was straight as an arrow. I know this because I have a TYTNII & a Tilt & this happened on the Tilt. I would drive into the local store & tell them you are having charge issues. They'll let you test out one of the stock chargers, & if that doesn't work, then it's a connection issue because of the mis-shappened port. The pins in the USB port are pretty small. It does NOT take much deviation for them to lose good contact. It also happens more frequently on the devices that have the open ended pin block.
I have the HTC orginal car charger with Mini-USB connector. This car charger has and intelligent chip "IC" to prevent overheating when charge is 100%
Now, HD2 has a MICRO connector. My question is, if I use it with a mini-to-micro converter, will this "IC" feature continue working?
Talking about this:
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And this:
wat, IC stands for integrated circuit.
Also, the charging mechanism to prevent overcharging or damage to batteries is on the device (phone) not the adapter.
Yes, the phone sends the "charged" signal, adapter receives it and stops charging and turns light indicator off.
What I am saying is that maybe the mini to micro converter will prevent that signal to be sent and hence continue charging/overheating?
Hello,i've the same thing and it works fine . All pins are connected in the adaptator .
pckshd said:
Yes, the phone sends the "charged" signal, adapter receives it and stops charging and turns light indicator off.
What I am saying is that maybe the mini to micro converter will prevent that signal to be sent and hence continue charging/overheating?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no it's the phone that's drawing the current, not the adapter. Adapter is a "dumb" servant that serves current upon request.
the converter is just a wiring converter so again ther'es no intelligence involved.
Thank you!
I have 2 of that EXACT converters shown in the photo above... IT DOES NOT WORK!!!
For some reason, my phone will not charge when I use that adaptor... I also bought a Motorola one which works well
Thanks for the info!. Will get the Motorola converter as well...
This one right? http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-SKN6252-Sprint-Motorola-Renegade/dp/B0012DRDH2
pckshd said:
Thanks for the info!. Will get the Motorola converter as well...
This one right? http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-SKN6252-Sprint-Motorola-Renegade/dp/B0012DRDH2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup That one works fine and data works also... you can charge and sync with it
I have this
and cant sync with it, only charge, and i dont know why, because all pin are connect in two sides.
Guys,
I use Motorola P513 microUSB car charger. It works like a charm. After fully charged HD2 disconnects from it so there's no possibility to overheating. I really recommend it. An it looks fancy too
http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/U...gers/P513-microUSB-Car-Charger-89143N-US-EN-2
Price about $14 in Poland
psdos said:
I have this
and cant sync with it, only charge, and i dont know why, because all pin are connect in two sides.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude... 1 have two of those and they both wont charge... not in car, via charger or anywhere else.... I was so pissed off as I got two of them... thank goodness for the Motorola one I ordered as a backup. That one even allows sync
THe one showing in the picture... when I plug it on the cable with the other end in the cigarette lighter adaptor, the cigaretter indicator light goes out on that end as if a circuit has been cut.... this happens even without anything plugged in and happens with both adaptors I bought... nothing charges also.... pissed me off!
from what i see that is also a surge protector. 8v to 3v, being a surge protector, it has a capacitor inside, and that will naturally block all data connection.
eskasi said:
... thank goodness for the Motorola one I ordered as a backup. That one even allows sync
....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you provide a link to that motorola adaptor ?
I have searched Ebay and all the adaptors I found, specify they can only charge the phone, but not transfer data.
For some of them I also asked the sellers, and they said just the same - Charge ONLY.
Thanks
Som30ne said:
Could you provide a link to that motorola adaptor ?
I have searched Ebay and all the adaptors I found, specify they can only charge the phone, but not transfer data.
For some of them I also asked the sellers, and they said just the same - Charge ONLY.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-MicroUSB-Adapter-RAZR2-SKN6252/dp/B001EJFZ5G
This is the one... as long as it looks like this... I am using it right now as I type this
Thanks for the reply.
I tried checking where and how they ship - and (as in many other cases) it seems they only shim within the US.
Since Im not in the US . . .
Is there any other one ?
About the comment that says - "as long as it looks like this" - well - I saw several of them, and as I mentioned in my previous post - they specify that they (the ones I saw) only charges the device, and when I asked the seller - they aslo claimed that it's only for charging, and does not transfer data.
(maybe they look the same on the outside, but the wiring is different ? - I wonder)
Be careful.
By the time you plug a mini USB plug into such an micro adapter, the potential leverage on the phone / micro socket will be quite considerable!
Why? What do you mean exactly?
The above one piece adaptor together with the charger's Mini USB plug is similarly rigid & I'm guessing about 2½ to 3 inches long - maybe 10 to 12 times the length of the actual micro socket! Some 10:1 leverage ratio. Maybe 3 times as much as without an adaptor.
I doubt that the design spec of a USB micro socket was ever designed to withstand the potential force that even mild accidental input leverage applied at a right angle would exert, on conversion to output leverage, on the phone's socket. For example, the leads tend to be 1 metre and are quite restricting. with the lead at right angles to the phone, 'testing' the cables length, the 'moment of force' (technical term) applied is likely to exceed the the design spec of the socket many fold.
I am suggesting there is a risk of separating the socket from the phone's chassis and/or its electrical connections to the printed circuit board within the phone.
At the vary least, due to the cables inherent stiffness, over a period of time the phones micro socket will get enlarged / bell shaped simply from small gentle leverage movements. IE. whilst USB connected, simply picking up the phone, messaging, or making a call. Eventually electrical / mechanical connections will gradually fail.
To reduce, but not eliminate this effect, I would suggest an adaptor cable as opposed to a one piece adaptor.
(Think I've waffled a bit here, but hope I've conveyed what I mean)
I have a friend who is visting the US (I'm from Canada) and I asked him to pick me up a nook. Not finding clear info in some of the reviews, mainly concerned about charging.
This charges over usb when hooked up to your computer right? Just want to make sure it doesn't use a proprietary cable for charging. I read on the ipad side, that older computers don't give out enough power to charge over usb, is that an issue with the nook?
What adapters/cables does it come with exactly? And is it just a standard mini-sub for the charging?
Also, this has a headset jack correct? I've read no bluetooth, I guess there's no way to get a mic working on this then.
Micro USB, will charge VERY slowly using a computer. Includes a 2amp wall socket and special cable to quick charge (still micro usb, just more pins). Has a headset port but does not come with a headset.
I've only had a few mobile devices. I read the ipad can charge over usb if the mobo supports giving out that extra juice. Some mobo's have a new firmware update to enable this.
The connector is micro-usb but just more pins. Hmm. so if the cable breaks or I misplace it no other micro-usb will charge it?
edit: i read a little more and found that it's 30 pin proprietary cable to speed up charging. I also read the galaxy tab does something similar.
Does anyone know if they use the same pin configuration? probably not, but I can get tab usb cables here.
I know you didn't ask for it but I'll tell you anyway
In case you are worrying about registering your device (mandatory at initial setup).
I'm NOT in the US and it worked fine.
Good to know. Thanks.
But I'm more concerned about charging it and relying solely on their cables.
I read the ipad can trickle charge on newer computers but some wouldn't provide enough power. Asus et al have released utilities to increase the power to the usb ports.
I can't post the links but endgadget has an article about it providing links to those utilites. They just talk of apple devices but does this work with the nook?
It comes with a charger for US-type sockets and only if you charge your nook with this (and yes, it is proprietary ) it'll charge quickly. It does seem to charge when you connect it to a standard PC USB port but at an extremely low rate.
On the device Micro-USB (not Mini) is used.
You say it does seem to, do you mean from personal experience? How slow? It sounds like that if you do own one it was so slow you didn't let it finish.
Like if it's 8hrs overnight, I can live with that, but I want to confirm that there is a plan b and not solely rely on their cables.
And as I mentioned asus and others released utils to give more power output to the usb (although these seem like their were only created for ipads). Wondering if those utils speed things up.
for ex, google asus ai charger to see what I mean.
I received my nook Color a mere few hours ago so I can't tell you a lot about its charging behavior It "seems" to load slower via standard USB... if you want to know about the details check one of the large threads on the NOOK and its rooting. I remember reading some information about the USB connector and its peculiarities there.
Ah you just got it. I see.
I found this on the root thread:
'
"There are 12 pins coming off the connector. It looks like there are no pins for the standard micro USB portion, only the extended 12 pins. 2 pins are used to bring in +5V, 2 pins are for signal ground providing a hefty circuit for the 2A charging. USB takes up two pins, and as far as I can tell 2 more are for each LED via current limiting resistors. Two more pins go to discretes that I haven't identified, and two more pins are unconnected. I'll take my scope to them when I have some time."
Not sure what he means when he says no pins for the standard micro portion...
Maybe the plug doesn't have standard USB pins, but the NOOK itself does have standard USB pins as well as the proprietary ones. Because I have trouble inserting the original B&N plug, I went out earlier today and bought a standard Micro USB cable...
I connected it to the nook and it said "not charging", so I went out to do some shopping (10-20 minutes max) and left it at 89%... when I came back it was at 93 %.
So it DOES in fact seem to charge albeit slowly.
Thanks. It's weird, lots of comments of its own cable not fitting properly.
As long as it charges with a normal cable I'm good.
I guess it is charging... however there is a slight chance, that it's NOT charging and the battery charge display is lying (de-calibrated). I don't think so, but I'll only know for sure after a few more days of using only the standard USB charger cable.
Just reading up on USB chargers, and I found somewhere in a thread here about phones defaulting to smaller ma when charging via USB if the connector didn't have the data pins shorted or something.
So, I was wondering a couple of things:
1) If the default charger supplies 700ma, do you think that is the most the Nexus S can draw? Does anyone have one of these shorted USB chargers? Does it charge the NS faster?
2) If it does charge faster, how hard would it be to do something similar to shorting the data connections? I have a generic AC-USB cable which I currently use for my iPod touch.
3) Is there a way to check if it is already shorted out? The USB charging port looks similar to ones on my computer, but I'm not sure what to look for.
Thanks for any help! Maybe if we can sort out this stuff, we can provide a solution for those looking for faster charging!
it does work safely, i'm using a 1000 mAh charger at home, and a 2000 mAh charger in the car both are from aftermarket eBay/DealExtreme charges.
no overheating
and charges faster than stock
AllGamer said:
it does work safely, i'm using a 1000 mAh charger at home, and a 2000 mAh charger in the car both are from aftermarket eBay/DealExtreme charges.
no overheating
and charges faster than stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok thankyou for that AllGamer, I'll think of possible ways I could mod the charger now
The only reason it is slow is because of the USB charging brick instead of just a charger.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
I know it's a wrong thread, but anyone has any pointers as to how to short a regular USB cable to make the phone think it's a power adapter cable?
XBOHDPuKC said:
I know it's a wrong thread, but anyone has any pointers as to how to short a regular USB cable to make the phone think it's a power adapter cable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah it's not the wrong thread that was one of my questions! I'm not sure exactly where you would do it, but maybe if you skinned the wire, then cut the data lines it would work?
Not sure which end you would do it on however, but that may not matter. Any other ideas?
The two center pins in the USB carry the data. If you pull them out, the cable won't be able to connect to the computer.
Sent from my Nexus S
Wow - you don't need to do this and you wouldn't want to in a computer anyway.
The USB specification says that 500ma (@ 5v) of current should be available from a computer's USB port. Of course, the actual wires can carry much more than this, so manufacturers can tell their phones to takes as much current as is offered.
Almost all computers limit their USB power output accordingly - this is why some opld usb-powered external hard drives needed 2 USB plugs to get enough power. The only computers that I am SURE emit significantly more than 500ma on their USB ports are first and second generation MacBook Airs.
Some phones, the N1 and every other HTC specifically, look for a specially shorted cable to "know if they are plugged into the wall adaptor" as opposed to a computer USB port. In reality, this is just a way to make you specifically buy HTC chargers as opposed to third-party off-brands, because plugging one of these phones into an off brand charger will limit the current draw to about 450ma.
If you want to know if your Android phone thinks that it is in "USB" mode or in "AC" mode, just plug the phone in, open the dialer, enter *#*#4636#*#* and then select battery info. If your phone is one that cares (not all do), it will say USB if it thinks it should be in USB charging mode, or AC if it thinks it should be in AC charging mode.
I would not try shorting out the middle pins in a cable and then plugging it into the computer. First, most will probably just disable the USB port completely, shutting off even power you could draw. Second, if it doesn't shut down, you run the risk that a badly-built USB port might not properly limit the current to 500ma - and since they are not designed to furnish more current than that, you might melt something expensive or start a fire. third, if you make a mistake, you risk shorting out either your phone or your computer, which might ruin your day, week or month, depending on your financial means to replace the system that cooks itself.
I would just run out to your local store, pay 15 bucks for a 2A third-party usb charger brick, and go to town. That will work perfectly - this is what I use, and it probably cuts the charge time by 30-40%. Obviously, this indicates that the NS is not capable of drawing a full 2A - I have not put a meter on it, but I would bet that it limits itself to somewhere just under an amp in.
I have recently bought both a 2A wall charger and car charger and my phone does not recognise either of these as anything more than a 500mA source.
Is it really just a case of opening the car charger up and shorting out pins 2 & 3? they are currently not connected to anything in the charger.
If it's indeed a matter of shorting the data lines, then I think you can skin the wire as suggested by others, but then cut the data lines, short the end that leads to the phone, leave the end to the computer open. I think it's the phone that tries to determine whether the data lines are shorted.
Edit: Can someone measure the continuity between the data pins with the stock charger? I wonder if they are shorted. I'm still waiting for my Nexus S to arrive, so can't test it.
Yup, the data lines in the stock Nexus S charger ARE shorted.
I just modified a cheap 1A car charger by popping it open, soldering the 2 data lines together and putting it back.
The report on the Nexus S before I did this (*#*#4636#*#*) said "USB", and afterwards it now says "AC".
I will report back after I make a road trip if this improves the GPS + Pandora + Screen in car situation. I suspect it will.
----------------
Yup, the car charger seemed to actually maintain and increase the battery this time. Seems good.
The NS supports chargers output to a max of 1000mA, as it says on the back of it, where the battery resides.
On the Oneplus forum there is a thread where they analysed the dash-charging cable ( https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/...-cable-doing-internally-lets-probe-it.456017/ ).
The topic was finished by somebody posting a teardown of the cable revealing that it's dash-charging capabilities are encoded on a BQ2022 from ti.
The next logical step is to dig into the communication between the phone and the charger.
The same guy that tore down the cable also took a look at the chargers (google translate will be helpfull):
http://www.chongdiantou.com/wp/archives/1228.html Mains
http://www.chongdiantou.com/wp/archives/1339.html Car
Maybe we can continue the investigation here....
So, I did some digging around the Car-Unit with my Logic Analyzer.
Description of setup here: http://imgur.com/a/G7pPN
The charger waits for a current draw (i didn't bother testing it's thresholds) and then reads/checks-for the E²PROM embedded in the plug of the cable (presumably containing an authentication for dash).
At a similar time the phone sends a kind of "preamble" consisting of high-low transitions of varying lengths (but this doesn't seem to important to the charger, it tries to "dash" even without it).
Afterwards the phone and charger start exchanging 9 bits of data in bursts. One USB-Data-Line is clock, the other one is data. The chargers supplies the clock and the first 9 bits and after a short pause the phone gets to reply with another 9 bits as the charger supplies another "clock-burst".
At the beginning (before dash-charging is in effect), the charger sends 150h and the phone replys with 158h.
Once the phone is ready to begin dash-charging it replys with 178h instead.
The charger then configures it's Step-Down Converter for ~4.5V of output voltage and then sends 148h to the phone.
It either replies with 170h if the voltage is too high or 178h if the voltage is correct (I didn't see a reply for "too low", but it might exist).
If the phone replies 170h the charger lowers the voltage by about 100mV-200mV and "asks" again.
Once the phone replies with 178h the charger stops lowering the voltage and sends 14Ch to which the phone replies with 141h.
During the dash-charging process the charger periodically sends 144h to which the phone replies with a number which seems to roughly coincide with the state of charge (i have seen values from 16Eh to 178h).
The charger seems to nudge-up the voltage every once in a while (presumably when the current dropped below a threshold).
If the battery is relatively full (i tested at 90% charge) the "dash-charging-cycle" doesn't even start and the communication stays at an exchange of 150h/158h data "words".
I did some minor probing on the wall-wart with a stripped USB 3.0 extension and found that it uses the same commands but with the lowest bit set (i.e. it adds 1 to the command codes). Unfortunately the USB 3.0 cable had some internal resistance ruining most of the analog measurements.
todo:
- I didn't manage to capture is the transition from dash charging back to "normal" 5V mode at the end of the charge cycle.
- The values communicated at the transition from the voltage-setting process to the dash charging operation are unclear to me (but they appear to be always the same).
Do you think it's safe to use OnePlus 3 brick or car Dash charger with let's say micro USB cable and charge other phones? Or OnePlus power bank?
nitramcek said:
Do you think it's safe to use OnePlus 3 brick or car Dash charger with let's say micro USB cable and charge other phones? Or OnePlus power bank?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's safe as with other phone or cable it will act as a normal charger blocking at 1.5A.
Dash charge will only activate if, the dash cable is used with a dash charging phone or oppo vooc phone.
Le_Zouave said:
it's safe as with other phone or cable it will act as a normal charger blocking at 1.5A.
Dash charge will only activate if, the dash cable is used with a dash charging phone or oppo vooc phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, so It's safe to use my car Dash charger for charging other phones to.
atheist93 said:
So, I did some digging around the Car-Unit with my Logic Analyzer.
Description of setup here: http://imgur.com/a/G7pPN
The charger waits for a current draw (i didn't bother testing it's thresholds) and then reads/checks-for the E²PROM embedded in the plug of the cable (presumably containing an authentication for dash).
At a similar time the phone sends a kind of "preamble" consisting of high-low transitions of varying lengths (but this doesn't seem to important to the charger, it tries to "dash" even without it).
Afterwards the phone and charger start exchanging 9 bits of data in bursts. One USB-Data-Line is clock, the other one is data. The chargers supplies the clock and the first 9 bits and after a short pause the phone gets to reply with another 9 bits as the charger supplies another "clock-burst".
At the beginning (before dash-charging is in effect), the charger sends 150h and the phone replys with 158h.
Once the phone is ready to begin dash-charging it replys with 178h instead.
The charger then configures it's Step-Down Converter for ~4.5V of output voltage and then sends 148h to the phone.
It either replies with 170h if the voltage is too high or 178h if the voltage is correct (I didn't see a reply for "too low", but it might exist).
If the phone replies 170h the charger lowers the voltage by about 100mV-200mV and "asks" again.
Once the phone replies with 178h the charger stops lowering the voltage and sends 14Ch to which the phone replies with 141h.
During the dash-charging process the charger periodically sends 144h to which the phone replies with a number which seems to roughly coincide with the state of charge (i have seen values from 16Eh to 178h).
The charger seems to nudge-up the voltage every once in a while (presumably when the current dropped below a threshold).
If the battery is relatively full (i tested at 90% charge) the "dash-charging-cycle" doesn't even start and the communication stays at an exchange of 150h/158h data "words".
I did some minor probing on the wall-wart with a stripped USB 3.0 extension and found that it uses the same commands but with the lowest bit set (i.e. it adds 1 to the command codes). Unfortunately the USB 3.0 cable had some internal resistance ruining most of the analog measurements.
todo:
- I didn't manage to capture is the transition from dash charging back to "normal" 5V mode at the end of the charge cycle.
- The values communicated at the transition from the voltage-setting process to the dash charging operation are unclear to me (but they appear to be always the same).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really interesting analysis. What's your goal? Enabling dash charging without dash accessories?
(USB-C for example)
My primary motivation is curiosity.
If the protocol turns out to be sufficiently simple to replicate (which is looking good at the moment) I might try and build a dash powerbank to quickly top of my battery. I wouldn't want 3+ Amps going through a flimsy micro-to-c adapter from a vooc bank...
atheist93 said:
My primary motivation is curiosity.
If the protocol turns out to be sufficiently simple to replicate (which is looking good at the moment) I might try and build a dash powerbank to quickly top of my battery. I wouldn't want 3+ Amps going through a flimsy micro-to-c adapter from a vooc bank...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm, so you're trying to replicate it on the hardware side, that's a cool application and it'd be great to have other options for power banks and car chargers.
i honestly don't know much about the topic, but do you think i'd be possible to replicate it on the software side? ie, mimic the protocol to enable faster charging when plugged into a USB-C fast charging output? (but also limit it to 3A since that's a safe max similar to the Nexus 5X/6P)
I am pretty sure that it is not possible to do it in software only.
The whole point of Dash is to let the charger do the regulating and make the phone just "pass-through" the raw connection to the battery.
You might be able to trick the phone into switching it's "pass-through" feature on without getting the right initialization, but this would frankly be stupid as the result would be 5V from the USB-Port pushing directly into the lithium cell which is supposed to stay below 4,2V. Initially the internal resistance of the USB-Cable might limit the current sufficiently to prevent an immediate catastrophic failure, but I can't imagine it working out well in the long run...
The only possible solution i see for this to work is to have a device that plugs into your existing USB and steps down the voltage appropriately, but that is hardware again.
atheist93 said:
I am pretty sure that it is not possible to do it in software only.
The whole point of Dash is to let the charger do the regulating and make the phone just "pass-through" the raw connection to the battery.
You might be able to trick the phone into switching it's "pass-through" feature on without getting the right initialization, but this would frankly be stupid as the result would be 5V from the USB-Port pushing directly into the lithium cell which is supposed to stay below 4,2V. Initially the internal resistance of the USB-Cable might limit the current sufficiently to prevent an immediate catastrophic failure, but I can't imagine it working out well in the long run...
The only possible solution i see for this to work is to have a device that plugs into your existing USB and steps down the voltage appropriately, but that is hardware again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a physical device which enables dash charging, particularly up to 3A via USB-C and 2.4A via USB-A to USB-C, would be of great use too
atheist93 said:
My primary motivation is curiosity.
If the protocol turns out to be sufficiently simple to replicate (which is looking good at the moment) I might try and build a dash powerbank to quickly top of my battery. I wouldn't want 3+ Amps going through a flimsy micro-to-c adapter from a vooc bank...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought the Dash car charger to be used as a car charger as well as backup power for camping etc. The dash charger seems to work with a wide range of input voltage. I would guess 8V-28V works fine.
I tested the dash car charger with eight AA Eneloop batteries but it didn't work well. The input voltage dropped from 11V to 6,6V. I think the stress was too much for eight batteries and dash charging didn't work. Ampere (app) displayed a reading of 1120mA for charging current.
Ten AA Eneloops were enough to dash charge the phone twice from 40% -> 90%. I also tested the dash car charger with a 19V PSU and it workerd fine as well.
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The next step is to buy lifepo 4 / lipo battery and build a case.
Thanks for the work done.
The problems with the enelope is the wiring... I guess there will be a massive voltage drop over the holder/wires and clips.
These things are not made for higher currents. I have seen experiments failing because of battery holders and crocodile clips very often. The problem is that these cables often have massive resistance which is no problem as long there is no current flowing... Greetings from Ohms law
Squabl said:
I bought the Dash car charger to be used as a car charger as well as backup power for camping etc. The dash charger seems to work with a wide range of input voltage. I would guess 8V-28V works fine.
I tested the dash car charger with eight AA Eneloop batteries but it didn't work well. The input voltage dropped from 11V to 6,6V. I think the stress was too much for eight batteries and dash charging didn't work. Ampere (app) displayed a reading of 1120mA for charging current.
Ten AA Eneloops were enough to dash charge the phone twice from 40% -> 90%. I also tested the dash car charger with a 19V PSU and it workerd fine as well.
The next step is to buy lifepo 4 / lipo battery and build a case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did your project go? And why Lipo batteries? Why not 18650 batts?
MonoTovarisj said:
How did your project go? And why Lipo batteries? Why not 18650 batts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get custom Li-Po batteries to fit any size and are generally square. 18650s are cylindrical and there would be wasted space between the batteries so with a Li-Po you would be able to get higher capacity. Just a wild guess
MonoTovarisj said:
How did your project go? And why Lipo batteries? Why not 18650 batts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ended up using battery from my 18V cordless drill. The battery is quite small and light weight for it capacity. It was the easiest and cheapest option as I need battery backup very seldom.
I did a case for 4 x 18650 and the car charger, but got a little stuck in the project. Mostly because I don't have any electronic skills.
This looks cool.
What questions do you have? I can help out with the electronics. But it seems to be quite straight forward. But to be safe use protected 18650 cells. I can recommend the Panasonic NCR18650b, they are the best ones currently available. See: https://www.gearbest.com/batteries/pp_187046.html. You might need to adjust your design the protection makes them a bit longer than standart 18650 cells.
The design is already for the panasonic protected 18650 cells. However I would have liked a pcb in the buttom with full charging circuit and a usb-c for charging. With my current design I have to take the cells out for charging. :-/
MonoTovarisj said:
The design is already for the panasonic protected 18650 cells. However I would have liked a pcb in the buttom with full charging circuit and a usb-c for charging. With my current design I have to take the cells out for charging. :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want to connect the 4 cells in series right?
I haven't found any good 4s charging modules yet.
Building you own charger circuit based on an charger IC is hardcore electronics. I have tried and i took months.
So charging the externally should be fine really.
affmalg said:
You want to connect the 4 cells in series right?
I haven't found any good 4s charging modules yet.
Building your own charger circuit based on a charger IC is hardcore electronics. I have tried and I took months.
So charging the externally should be fine really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah series, as I need the voltage for the car charger, and 3.7 times 4 gives a nice 14,8V for the charger.
Regarding charging that was my conclusion as well, however if I wanted to commercialise it, I would need a built-in charging circuit.
I would be able to get wires to the top poles as well if that would help the design, then you would be able to charge them individually and switch to a serial connection when in use.