I will also order my diamond bud am affraid it wil have the same VGA driver problem like other qualcomm devices. New rom 6.1 for kaiser isn't including the driver, so this realy dissepoints me.
I don't think the Diamond will have the "driver problem". From what I've heard the Diamond even has some kind of accelerated graphics to entertain us with its lovely 480x640 screen
I saw this on one of the youtube video's of the presentation of the device.
Vibrant TouchFLO 3D user interface, responding perfectly to your finger gestures when scrolling through contacts, browsing the web, and launching media… all vividly displayed as photos and artwork powered by the 3D graphics processor.
from htcdirect specs
Yeah, all of the evidence so far suggests that the Touch Diamond will have no driver problems. HTC would have to be quite silly to have driver problems on their flagship device.
Hold up, I don’t think this is their flagship device, it’s targeted at the consumer market rather than at the business market, although there will be some overlap of customers.
Nonetheless, still true that the driver issue effecting other devices won’t be seen on this device.
http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=48976
"Singapore – 22 May, 2008 – HTC Corp. (TAIEX: 2498; “HTC”), the world's leading provider of Microsoft® Windows Mobile® smart devices, today unveiled its new flagship phone, the HTC Touch Diamond."
badaas said:
Vibrant TouchFLO 3D user interface, responding perfectly to your finger gestures when scrolling through contacts, browsing the web, and launching media… all vividly displayed as photos and artwork powered by the 3D graphics processor.
from htcdirect specs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What we've learned from the TyTN II: Don't trust HTC marketing literature.
Dark Fire said:
all of the evidence so far suggests that the Touch Diamond will have no driver problems. HTC would have to be quite silly to have driver problems on their flagship device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The TyTN II was a flagship device that had driver problems. I'm also a bit worried by the current stock of youtube vids. Checkout some of the laggy graphics on this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoaXA9un7YE [web browsing, around 2:40]
My prediction: The graphics performance of the Diamond will be a vast improvement on the recent HTC devices (TyTN II, Touch, etc), but will not be as good as other modern competitors.
Sorry, maybe I'm just a pessimist. Does anyone have a youtube vid to prove me wrong??
Dark Fire said:
http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=48976
"Singapore – 22 May, 2008 – HTC Corp. (TAIEX: 2498; “HTC”), the world's leading provider of Microsoft® Windows Mobile® smart devices, today unveiled its new flagship phone, the HTC Touch Diamond."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a look at the launch event, towards the end at the Q&A session (time elapsed 55:15) on the link below:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...site:google.com&ei=Ov83SImsNYGkigKglIFU&hl=en
It is a consumer oriented device, now it maybe their flagship consumer device, replacing the original HTC touch, but it is too limited to be their top of the range high end device, as such its priced accordingly.
That’s not to say it’s not a great device, and I will certainly be in line to buy one of the first ones once released to replace my ageing XDA Orbit
To be fair, they do overload it a bit while browsing the web, by zooming in and out and rotating it a lot. The device is only designed to work well when used reasonably.
By the way, the only evidence that I can find of the TyTN II being a flagship device is unofficial.
we wil only know after its out to market..
the tytn II was undoubtedly the flagship device of late 2007, they may not have explicitly said that, but its pretty obvious.
but anyways its getting a bit off topic here... but i really doubt that itll have driver problems, why would they kick themselves in the balls again?
Rory
Sorry, this is random, but I've just thought about that and I have come to the conclusion that kicking yourself in that area is actually pretty difficult (or maybe impossible). Hopefully HTC will find that it is similarly hard to make driver problems again.
And I'm still not convinced by this flagshipness - the flagship product(s) are normally the main feature on the HTC home page. As far as I'm aware, the Touch Family has controlled the home page for ages.
Flagship is just a marketing term use it how you will. If it make you ‘feel’ better that you own the company’s’ flagship product then so be it.
However, I must point out that there are many phones that equal or surpass this phone in terms of hardware without a problem. The only advantage this has is its form factor. The phone is designed as a style statement, like its name it’s all about the BLING BLING. Even the CEO says it’s a phone that you will be proud to show your mates and take to the pub.
For me personally a flagship phone is like the Nokia 8000 series (8600, 8800, etc...) or the new SonyEricsson Xperia X1. A premium device or one that is technically far more advanced that anything that manufacturer has ever produced before.
japher said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoaXA9un7YE [web browsing, around 2:40]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Web Browsing is likely to be very Processor intensive, not Graphics chip
Personally, I think that the Diamond won't have the 3D driver issue. This is backed up by the benchmarks is got in CorePlayer (Near the bottom, sorry for the auto-translate) - (Spoiler, it could play a VGA (640x480) 1.5mbps XVid video at 106% of actual speed)
imranbashir_uk said:
...A premium device or one that is technically far more advanced that anything that manufacturer has ever produced before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, you must be joking, this device is so advance in such a small package it will be hard to beat this year by anyone, it sure is a flagship device unlike Kaiser, which is just like caring a brick in your pocket, just awfull
banesi said:
lol, you must be joking, this device is so advance in such a small package it will be hard to beat this year by anyone, it sure is a flagship device unlike Kaiser, which is just like caring a brick in your pocket, just awfull
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree.
Flagship devices are not the most powerful devices out there. I can hardly see HTC bolting a phone to the side of a laptop and calling it their flagship device. Exactly which devices are flagship devices is up to HTC. Lately they've been keen on their Touch family, so they're all flagship devices.
If you really want to generalise it, flagship devices are normally:
1. One of the best devices in terms of specification compared to size (so the Touch Diamond destroys huge devices like the Athena).
2. Very stylish. The members of the Touch family all have unique and memorable looks. The Kaiser is generic and (consequently) unmemorable.
going slightly off topic, maybe you should go discuss the meaning of flagship devices in off topic?
because im bored and this is slightly interesting, i made a poll in OFF-TOPIC http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394942
this thread should be closed, because "we" all know this wont have a 3D driver issue....
i totally agree
I've agreed from the start. Where are the people with appropriate powers when you need them?
Related
But it does not look good for us. I think we're going to have to rely on developers to release drivers for us, not HTC
"HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smartphones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats," reads the official response, in part. Furthermore, the company has officially confirmed that Imageon drivers are not in use on the affected devices, but that it "plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link
Then its final. no more HTC for me as this will be my last HTC device.
HTC you ruined my day. . . Well, I think that means they want a huge money donation to enable them. . .
Yeah no more HTC for me. Everyone who wanted the driver issues fix should agree that when they buy their next PPC make sure it's not an HTC
Fantastic. Perfect. Top notch. [/sarcasm]
So, in light of problems being fixed as they should be, the new issue is with what to replace the Kaiser?
Where oh where is the M8??
What they basically said is that "yea, we know there is no hardware acceleration, but if you really want it you are going to have to give us even more money by buying our next gen handset, bc we aren't fixing it in this one".
I used to rave about my 8125 to everyone. It's too bad HTC is taking the position they are. Never again will I buy a product from HTC or recommend them to anyone else. My next handset will be from i-mate.
yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard
Okay, so whos up for a nice class action lawsuit? I'm totally willing to try running HTC into the ground with one.
ericc191 said:
yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i-mate just annoced last week that they are going back to HTC as the ODM of their phones. I-mate had tried (or was trying with) some other ODMs and it didn't pan out, so they are going back to HTC. If you don't want HTC, then don't buy any future i-mates either....
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/17/palm-i-mate-others-moving-manufacturing-contracts-back-to-htc/
I think we now need a sticky thread stating "Dont buy HTC products unless you've had your brain removed"
Certainly depending upon who commented to Engadget, we dont know how seriously to take this. But it does look bleak
We all know the existing drivers suck, the phone is buggy
and more to the point for a "premium" product, it doesnt fulfill some functions its predecessors could (its slower than my 3 yr old Wizard at scrolling, camera and opening/closing)
The standard, 'we already got your money response'...
Maybe it would be prudent for a written complaint to the carriers now, if they blow this off on this handset, what makes you think there won't be anything wrong with the next? Maybe they are making a promise on the next? Any takers?
?Glitch
ericc191 said:
yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That they do. they are actually releasing a kaiser killer very soon - the Ultimate 9502
It uses the exact same chipset as the Kaiser, but I'm guessing it has drivers for hardware acceleration too. It has the same specs as the kaiser (GPS, HSDPA, etc, etc) and features a VGA screen.
Beat me to the 9502. Link - http://www.imate.com/product.aspx?product=ultimate9502
snif...
ah well, here's looking forward to the
toshiba g920
http://www.slashphone.com/111/9012.html
or the imate 9502
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2007/10/imate_9502_handson.html
or whenever the he77 apple gets a 3g stick out of their a$$.
smittyofdhs said:
i-mate just annoced last week that they are going back to HTC as the ODM of their phones. I-mate had tried (or was trying with) some other ODMs and it didn't pan out, so they are going back to HTC. If you don't want HTC, then don't buy any future i-mates either....
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/17/palm-i-mate-others-moving-manufacturing-contracts-back-to-htc/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah, craptastic.
well, maybe the linux-palm? or go retro and ditch the convergence altogether?
" In response to recent customer complaints about poor video performance on HTC devices based on the latest Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipsets, HTC is providing the following statement.
HTC is committed to delivering a portfolio of devices that offer a wide variety of communication, connectivity and entertainment functionality. HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI’s Imageon video acceleration hardware.
HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smart phones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats.
HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support. "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this whole statement is very ambiguous and does not state that support for imageon drivers aren't possible on current devices. i think its a pr statement and doesn't reflect what their software team is doing. its very opened ended and we could have support for acceleration but we couldn't as well. this statement doesn't tell us that.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361580
So htc said that the devices with the latest qualcomm chipsets would have 3d acceleration, but they dont. Has anyone pointed this out before. Im not a tytn ii owner, but ive been following the news, since i wanted one for myself.
But, is this false advertising, saying it will have hardware acceleration and then not giving it, and saying it will never be given in an update.
I think the 9502 is where im going too, we just need a forum on XDA for it.
Rory
Back to palm for me!!!
Guilf said:
Beat me to the 9502. Link - http://www.imate.com/product.aspx?product=ultimate9502
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if the keyboard is comfortable.
Also, let's say I purchase this phone in March. Would HTC get any of that profit?
I agree with BlueCop, and why is everyone getting so worked up about this? Where there's a demand, drivers will follow - their source is just unclear at the moment.
Is there in existence, an iPhone forum with as much tech knowledge as this forum?
I got a couple of iPhones to play with, a good one and a fixer-upper.
Whenever I have technical questions about the iPhone and search Google for answers, I keep coming upon forums full of questions (the same ones I would have asked) but no answers. Another problem is most forums are Mac-oriented and I only have PCs.
Lol, too many avg. joe's and computer illiterate people use the iphone, hence the forum's full of questions. As an example, one iphone user i know was super excited and happy that his iphone used web apps and described them as the way of the future, I have no idea how they are advantageous esp when many require an active internet connection and when I mentioned the inability to use our field, healthcare's, current WinMo work/productivity apps, he replied "yea, apple needs to fix that!"...lol, they are so cluseless.
Maybe you could try your luck at searching for a developer forum...well a hacker's/unlocking forum?
I haven't found any good technical forums yet, but so far I would have to say the iPhone isn't that much fun.
Lots of eye candy, animations are super smooth, and the browser is first rate, but there's not a whole lot to do on it. Even the programs available via Installer.app are pretty lame. Can't access the filesystem, everything must be copied via iTunes. You can install OpenSSH and get to the file system that way, but you can't directly copy media to it. It all has to go through iTunes.
The whole time I was thinking... 8GB, 480x320 LCD, 620MHz Samsung ARM processor. Damn I wish this thing could run WM6!
Plus, Bubble Breaker is a helluva lot better than any of the lame games I was able to find for it.
I'll give it a few more days, but I think Windows phones are more my thing.
I've come to the same conclusion!
GnatGoSplat said:
I haven't found any good technical forums yet, but so far I would have to say the iPhone isn't that much fun.
Lots of eye candy, animations are super smooth, and the browser is first rate, but there's not a whole lot to do on it. Even the programs available via Installer.app are pretty lame. Can't access the filesystem, everything must be copied via iTunes. You can install OpenSSH and get to the file system that way, but you can't directly copy media to it. It all has to go through iTunes.
The whole time I was thinking... 8GB, 480x320 LCD, 620MHz Samsung ARM processor. Damn I wish this thing could run WM6!
Plus, Bubble Breaker is a helluva lot better than any of the lame games I was able to find for it.
I'll give it a few more days, but I think Windows phones are more my thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not got an iPhone but like GnatGoSplat, I'd love to have the 'power' and screen size - other stuff like automatic screen rotation and multi-touch would be good as well! I have come to the conclusion that although Apple have done a great job in fueling the revolution in phone UI and function, it's aimed at the non-technical masses or neither have the wit or foresight to realize what could be done if only Apple would let them do it!
I have strayed a little from the point that I originally wanted to make though - 8GB, 480x320 LCD, 620MHz Samsung ARM processor - check the specs for the Meizu M8 Minione and Samsung i900 that are due to be released later this year? Due to similarities to the iPhone, i doubt the M8 will be available in Europe and North America because of copyright infringement, however the i900; well that looks like a whole load of fun that many of us are looking for!
hdd123
hackint0sh.org
modmyiphone.com
Thanks hiimcliff, modmyiphone has over 150,000 members, there ought to be some good knowledge there!
hdd123 said:
I have strayed a little from the point that I originally wanted to make though - 8GB, 480x320 LCD, 620MHz Samsung ARM processor - check the specs for the Meizu M8 Minione and Samsung i900 that are due to be released later this year? Due to similarities to the iPhone, i doubt the M8 will be available in Europe and North America because of copyright infringement, however the i900; well that looks like a whole load of fun that many of us are looking for!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've known about the M8 for over a year, but it seems like it's vaporware and never coming out. The Samsung i900 looks nice, but screen is lower res. Not sure on the CPU specs, but I'm guessing it will be slower. I love that it has GPS and FM radio though.
Ideally, I would still like to see a Windows Mobile emulator because I'd still want to be able to use the iPhone's apps, many of which are far superior to their WinMo equivalents (Safari for one). Surely I'm not the only one who wants to run WM6 on a HVGA, 11.6mm, 620MHz device! I would be the best of both worlds. Surely I can't be the only one who wants this?
I’d like to know if you’ll be able to upgrade your present phone from 6.1 to 6.5 and then later 7? I’ve just bought my Touch Diamond and will be using it for atleast 2 years, would be a shame if I couldnt upgrade the OS when it comes out…
Kind of like asking how long is a piece of string??? Considering no one really knows what hardware specification will be required to run either WinMo 6.5 or WinMo 7... IMHO I would say that WinMo 6.5 highly possible (Tread in Diamond ROM section with an apparently leaked version, although not for the Touch Diamond) , WinMo 7 only Micro$oft will be able to answer that one???
windows mobile is made for a specific phone... drivers, enhancements, everything. if they decide to provide us with an upgrade, we get an upgrade. if a device VERY similar to ours has it, we *might* be able to use it too. beyond that, you can't go to the store and buy it, so we're really at the mercy of everybody else involved.
According to some of the teaser details already released about Windows Mobile 7, it will likely require a capacitive screen, and the G1 is the only phone by HTC to use one so far.
We don't really know much about WM7 though. That teaser info that was released quite a while ago hinted at possible gesture recognition, multitouch, etc., but I think that release was as much marketing ploy as anything else.
I doubt that WM7 will require a capacitive screen, although I would expect that it will support them. There are a number of reasons not to ditch resistive screens. Fine detail can't be input on a capacitive screen, which causes numerous problems. Complex alphabets (Asian), legacy support for existing applications, cost... the list goes on, but requiring capacitive screens would essentially erase the entire foundation that WM is built on. I don't think MS wants to do that. The great thing about WM (and MS vs Apple in general) is that they don't tie you to one piece of hardware. You have much greater flexibility in terms of cost, features, form-factor, etc.
I was hoping for WM7 this year, but now that most announcements put WM6.5 devices at Q3-Q4, it seems highly doubtful we'll see a WM7 device until at least mid 2010. By that time I'll be ready for a new device anyway (Tegra, new Qualcomm/AMD chipset, who knows), so the issue is almost moot. I'm with you though, I'd still like to see WM7 on the Diamond/Pro/HD!
As the title states does the Diamond have the CPU, memory and technology to run Windows Mobile 7?
I mean a 528MHz CPU is pretty fast.
Who knows?
Seeing as nobody really knows what WinMo7 will include (software or hardware), it's difficult to answer that one. If multi-touch is more than just a rumour, then the answer is 'no', as the Diamond has a resistive screen, not capacitive, which is needed for multi-touch.
Also, HTC are talking about using different processors (nVidia I think?)... any change in hardware, makes it even less likely that we'll be able to run the OS on our current devices.
Personally, I would be pretty pissed at Microsoft if todays' devices have the hardware to run 'tomorrows' OS. What I want is a giant leap forward, not a small step! But, I am talking about Microsoft, so my expectations are low!
yeah, microsoft is always a step behind in keeping technology and software in sync. usually the software lags behind the hardware, and it always seems like they use the processors to near capacity anyway when they do develop something, to make up for not having it before...
i.e., microsoft voice command, which came out way after nokia did theirs, and not as good either, etc.
I"m guessing that winmo 7 will use almost the maximum capacity of whatever device comes out at that time.
grahamkdt said:
Seeing as nobody really knows what WinMo7 will include (software or hardware), it's difficult to answer that one. If multi-touch is more than just a rumour, then the answer is 'no', as the Diamond has a resistive screen, not capacitive, which is needed for multi-touch.
Also, HTC are talking about using different processors (nVidia I think?)... any change in hardware, makes it even less likely that we'll be able to run the OS on our current devices.
Personally, I would be pretty pissed at Microsoft if todays' devices have the hardware to run 'tomorrows' OS. What I want is a giant leap forward, not a small step! But, I am talking about Microsoft, so my expectations are low!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yah I guess when you put it that way, it makes sense. I probably won't want WM7 to run on my diamond.
Well WM7 on today's hardware is maybe called WinMo 6.5
This would be a great marketing if MS will use WM7 skin in WM6.5 but almost everything will be the same as 6.1.
So users with today's hardware will get new today screen.
And WM7 will get new HW.
Seems simple.
Previously the devices have had the power for upgrade.
My blueangel originally ran WM2003, It's been upgraded to WM5, WM6 and finally WM6.1....
So the optimism for the huge leap forward thing is somewhat lacking in my part. If my old blue angel can happily keep pace with the same software my diamond is running.
I'm not sure how MS will manage with multitouch.....It was on the news today that apple have finally been granted a patent on it and that they are about to start sueing other devices which are using it.....
Might sadly mean no multitouch for PPC...but we'll see.
I recently got a free year-long subscription of BusinessWeek and read the June 29th issue. I found this humorous, but pathetic article by a well-distinguished BusinessWeek journalist near the end of the issue:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2009/tc20090617_040512.htm
Did this guy ever laid eyes upon a Windows Mobile phone in the past 2 years? I doubt it. Every feature he mentioned is available on Windows Mobile but he dismisses it as looking "lame". It's almost like he's working for Apple the way he specifically outlines the features of the new iphone. I do see some mildly pro-mac, pro-apple articles in some publications, but this is just a joke, even for an opinion article. The least he could have done was mention the Touch Pro 2, or the new Omnia, with its large AMOLED screen and over double the resolution.
I might have the wrong reaction to this, but I think it's worth mentioning. What does the XDA community think of the article? Just another Apple fanboy, or an uninformed simpleton?
The biggest thing about the iPhone is it's interface/applications. Love it or hate it, the iPhone has a lot of great and useful applications, while Windows Mobile doesn't. Android (and WebOS soon) also have a lot of great and useful applications. Most, if not all, non HTC or Samsung or manufacturer applications look very old and perform slow. It's a sad, but true, fact.
And those who are like "why don't you just switch to the iPhone then, hater!", well, I like Windows Mobile for the customization. I like being able to change my interface every few weeks. With the upcoming HTC Hero, I might be switching to Android, though. It will be nice to have an OS that actually works right... Windows Mobile simply is slow, and it's RAM management is HELL.
derekwilkinson said:
The biggest thing about the iPhone is it's interface/applications. Love it or hate it, the iPhone has a lot of great and useful applications, while Windows Mobile doesn't. Android (and WebOS soon) also have a lot of great and useful applications. Most, if not all, non HTC or Samsung or manufacturer applications look very old and perform slow. It's a sad, but true, fact.
And those who are like "why don't you just switch to the iPhone then, hater!", well, I like Windows Mobile for the customization. I like being able to change my interface every few weeks. With the upcoming HTC Hero, I might be switching to Android, though. It will be nice to have an OS that actually works right... Windows Mobile simply is slow, and it's RAM management is HELL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of that about the iphone is true, but not at all my point I was trying to make. The article mentioned features that were all available on Windows Mobile. It would have been OK with me if he said what you said, and that the interface, and certain applications (such as the large amount of simple, graphics-intensive games) are an advantage for the iphone. But he simply outlined features that an Apple spokesman would say at a newsconference promoting their product.
Also, I don't know what phone you are using, but my Fuze, which uses WM isn't slow at all in every basic use! The only thing I found slow was older applications that were made for xscale devices. Other than that I've ran over 9 applications at once, even music and youtube at once.
this article seems to be more biased than anything else. To me it simply sounds like another consumer who is very infatuated with the new phone. As the OP has said, nearly everything they offered was pretty much catching up to the other OS' and they did not "optimize" it as people claim it to be.
the thing that really caught my eye with the new iphone OS3 is the ability to edit on the fly, but then again, it is simply a cute toy for amateurs to post a huge range of amatuer videos to completely idiotic simpleminded videos of someone doing something stupid.
by the end of the article, it felt like a sales pitch.