Related
I am very shortly out of contract and am undecided which phone I want next.
I am definitely a big fan of windows mobile PPC phones and for the last 5 years have had nothing but. It is interesting to see that some friends at work who would have always opted for the latest Nokia gadget (N95 etc.) to start choosing Windows Mobile instead (HTC Touch - ELF) - this is undoubtedly due to the work of HTC making them popular with the Touch-Flo and now the 3D version on the diamond.
This time however it seems that at the same time as the Diamond is being released, the new 3G iPhone is due to be released and I'm stuck which one I want.
I don't use a Mac at all, and never have, although I appreciate how pretty they look - same with the iPhone - it looks great in my opinion.
I like the huge screen of the iPhone and look of it. I definitely like the unlimited data package that comes as part of the deal -although not particularly the 18month contract, but could live with it. BUT - No GPS software such as TomTom for iPhone? 2MP camera?
The touch diamond seems to win hands down on some fronts... loads of free / commercial software for it, including several different GPS sat nav softwares - not just google maps. It also looks great. BUT - battery life? why? it seems to me that this awesome device has one hand tied behind it's back due to a poor battery life.
Anyway....
Does anyone here have both devices and can offer a balanced opinion on how they compare?
Any thoughts on your new Diamond - do you wish you got the iPhone instead? Are you pleased with your new Diamond and wouldn't swap it for anything?
Just got my Diamond 2 days ago.
It is a wow piece !
Ergonomy wise , I have to say that it is much more elegant than the
Iphone. Of course this is a taste thing... I did like the diamond better.
now functionality wise... since my background is programming ,
I must say that with microsoft (windows) , U are in for a lot of pain...
but U have so many options...
Iphone ? Mac OS ????? U have to search and search ..and many times
not find !!!!!
My only pb with my Diamond ?
I havent yet digested that I did "waste" a thousand us dollars on a cell phone !!
good luck on your choice !
my 2cents
forgot to mention about the battery life...
I know it's been 2 days I have my diamond.. but I am sure that the battery is not very good...
out of my experience... u can't have a nice ppc and a good battery...doesnt exist... especially if u want it stylish....
so my advice ? get a good car charger and every 9 months or so change the battery... it is around 40usd.
Forget the battery...it is not that big of an issue..
I use my phone over 5h per day (only calls !! ) so for me whatever phone I get ... I need a car charger !!!
Apple vs Diamond
I recently bought a edge version jail broker apple iphone for my wife and htc diamond for myself.
Interface - I think touchflo 3d interface is superb.But sometimes its a bit lagging.But, I am sure in future there would be some roms from xda that will iron some issues in touchflo 3d.But I do think the interface is very good in Daimond.Where as with apple iphone, the interface is very simple , where you turn the pages, but because of its simplicity , you cant go wrong with it.
Touch Screen(Hardware - touch feel) - I think apple iphone has got really good touch screen.It just easy for anyone to handle it straightaway.Where as touchdiamond you sometimes need to press your finger against the screen a little harder.Or you need to do a lot of registry tweaks to make it smoother.But with apple , its just the best touchscreen currently where it understands ur hand gestures accordingly.
Browsing - Apple wins here in a big way.If i quickly have to check the xda site, I take the apple rather than diamond. In the begining although I was impressed with diamond, somehow after sometime it really hard to undertand the way the opera is trying to do too many things at the same time and you get confused exactly how to zoom in.No, disrepct to either of the mobiles, but apple browser is simple and it really works well. And also , I dont know the reason why but diamond opera browser is really slow than IE in diamond.(Again, I am sure future roms will fix these.See with apple sometimes out of the box you get everything fixed)
Features - I think features wise, you can do quite a lot with diamond.You can install lof of applications you like.And you can do word editing , cut and paste anywhere in explorer , sending mms files, playing any multimedia files and watching tv, gps of ur own choice etc etc ,etc.But with apple you cant do all these things.You can only watch MP4 files , you cant cut and paste.And if you want to install anything , then you have to make sure , you purchase from apple.And for any other application , you have to puchase it from apple.(Apple - Note, in future apple might get all the applications via app store, but you still have to pay for any other applications.)
Physical Dimensions- Dimaond looks really stunning and small in your hands, but where as iphone looks like a brick.Diamond is the first WM Device with accelerometer and the screen is absolutely superb on diamond.Apple screen also looks really really good, but its a bit big size.
Other things- To be frank with you both have pros and cons for both, and even I am confused a little.One thing I hate about apple iphone is , you have to buy games and every other application in apple itunes, but not so much with diamond.There is a lot of support for WM devices especially XDA- Kudos to XDA.I think Microsoft should sponsor XDA guys.
Vj
The main thing is you cannot run more than one application at once on an Iphone so if you were to have Navi running and you wanted to switch to the web for a moment you would lose everything that was going on with the Navi. i.e. GPS position etc. (This is just an example, but messenger I can see being a big problem)
mac iphone & winMobile devices cannot compare... this is only my opinion. but if u looking for good look.. so may be it helps. but functions & applications have to say 4get it.
iPhone can't multitask?? really?? does this apply to the 2.0 firmware too? I suppose since 'churchwa' above referred to GPS positioning it must apply to the 2.0 firmware too??
btw, what Bluetooth profile does the 2.0 firmware offer?
The Diamond offers a HUGE selection of Bluetooth profiles.
If battery life is an issue, an extended battery for the Diamond will be out soon. At least the battery can be changed w/o having to heck the case open like the iPhone.
The reason why it's harder to go gestures on the Diamond is because it uses a resistive touchscreen as opposed to capacitive on the iPhone. On a resistive screen you need to apply pressure, on capacitive you need to touch.
We can't compare the Diamond to the iPhone in terms of software. The Diamond is a powerhouse developer/hacker poweruser phone and the iPhone is a very simplistic user friendly and intuitive phone.
In terms of hardware we find a few similiarities especially the presence of GPS and HSDPA on both devices.
Btw, what's the max HSDPA speed on the iPhone? is it 7.2Mbps as well?
Cheers.
Go to a shop and hold both of them in your hands.
I had an iphone 8GB and liked it a lot for its design and ui. It is a functional phone and the ui is great. But the bad thing for me was that there's not a lot of 3rd party software to download. With win mobile there are a lot of possibilities to download 3rd party software.
Another thing to consider is the size of both phones. As I already wrote: hold both devices in your hand. Also hold them at you ear. You will notice that the iphone is bulky and heavy while the diamond is light and very compact.
At first with rom version 1.35 I wish I hadn't sold my iphone, but with the new 1.37 europe rom I am very happy. Scrolling through touchflow 3d is about as fast as iphone's ui.
BTW: battery life with the new 1.37 rom is much better. It should last for at least 2 days of normal use (some emailing, few calls, using opera for about 20 minutes).
It is also possible to adjust screen sensitivity. A light touch of your finger will do the job.
Seriously, it depends on what you want from your device.
WM offers massive amounts of customisation, 3rd party software, no media restrictions, multi-tasking and in general a huge community.
iPhone offers ease of use at the cost of everything else pretty much. I will say this though, the browsing experience on iPhone is leagues ahead of anything else in the mobile market. They really nailed that on the head. Other mobile browsers dont come close. The key thing with the iPhone is that it's not trying to do or be too much. It's a phone, it plays video and music (only in particualar formats though) and it has the ability to browse the web. Even with the 3G iPhone, it's still not trying to be too much, yes it has GPS but at it's core it's still only doing about 4 or 5 things.
1. make calls/sms etc
2. play music
3. play videos
4. browse the web
5. use gps for google maps etc
That's it. Even with the app store, if you cant run background apps, plugins (like WM today screen etc) it becomes kinda limited.
A WM device is a whole different world. Yeah its a real pain in the ass at times and you ahve to tweak it etc to get it working 100%, things are never quite right out of the box. But after you fight through those birthing pains, you will have device that works (mostly) as you want.
The real question is what do you want. Simplicity or limitless possibilty?
Syphon Filter said:
I will say this though, the browsing experience on iPhone is leagues ahead of anything else in the mobile market. They really nailed that on the head. Other mobile browsers dont come close.
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I really dont know where this is coming from. I compared the iPhone/iPod Touch Browser with the newest Opera 9.5 and Opera Mini and each of them has there strenghts and weaknesses. Im quite happy with using Opera 9.5 on WM and dont see a reason changing to the iPhone for better webbrowsing.
The only big advantage i see, is the big screen. Its really nice, but makes the phone big too. Another thing is the finger-only usage of the screen, which isnt that desirable if you ask me. Working with a stylus is sometimes easier and faster - especially when writing notes.
Well, all other things were already mentioned in this thread. I personally will stick with Windows Mobile since I am really fast getting tired of using the same skin for too long.
The definitive breakdown
Its a hard decision to make, i had to choose between the two (i could have waited for the 3G if i wanted) but ended up getting the Diamond. this is the frank breakdown:
lets start with the obvious! The iPhone has a larger screen and it is a lovely one BUT the screen on the Diamond is actually a higher Rez... I dont watch moves on my phone so i would rather have the higher REZ so i can fit more stuff on a page, and the screen on the diamond i have to say is fantastic. But some ppl may prefer that larger screen. It is also good to note this (something that a LOT of ppl dont understand/know) the touch sensitive screen on the iPhone is capacitance based, the one on the Diamond is resistive based. Whats the difference? well with the iPhone you dont need and finger pressure, just a light touch with you finger. the flaw in this system is that you cant use a stylus, or use it with gloves on, with the diamond you do need to put a bit of pressure BUT you can use it with gloves/a styles or anything and it is better for handwriting recognition
Then, the big thing about the iPhone 3G was the fast download speeds, BUT it uses an an old HSDPA of only 3.5mbps max, the diamond however can go up to HSDPA speeds of 7.3 Mbps! so faster loading web pages and watching youtube videos.
Now the iPhone does win when it comes to interface, the TF3D on the Diamond is very good, in fact its the best on any windows mobile device. BUT the iPhone does have a smoother and slicker interface. For me however with the latest ROM the Diamond is pretty close usability wise, and has some very nice animations etc.
Storage, your limited to 4GB on the diamond, but can have 8-16gb on the iphone, so thats a big plus for the iPhone
One big deciding factor for me... the camera, its just crap on the iPhone, and rather good on the Diamond (auto focus 3.2mp)...end of that
SIZE! i actually think the iPhone is too big! it is too long and too wide, the size of the diamond is fantastic IMO so small yet with more tech, again this comes back to if you want that big screen on the iphone or not...
Battery life... the iPhone takes it here again, BUT w8 because the diamond will soon be getting quite a few extend life batteries and that will make it more competitive in this front. also with the latest ROM the diamond lasts over a day no problem (unlike b4)
now this is the biggey, even with the iPhones new apps store, windows mobile is still gonna have a tonne more 3rd party apps that any iphone owner could ever hope to see... the interface, storage size, and scree size on the iphone are its redeeming features... the Diamond has a higher rez screen, an internet browser that it just as good as the iPhones, a much better camera, smaller size, forward facing camera for vid calls, faster HSDPA, better call sound qulaty you can put TomTom on it for gps, and many more 3rd party apps
i prefer the Diamond, what to you prefer... ooo i forgot to mention PRICE big difference, the iPhone 3G will be a lot cheaper.
Ergonomically the diamond wins because its much smaller!
The old metal look of the 2g iphone is replaced with a plastic back on the 3g one, so its not as elegant as it used to be.
User experiance i would say the iphone wins hands down. There's no having to cope with lags and ill thought out menu systems. You can get what you want down really quickly, and not have to worry about screen sensativity problems and some behind the scenes WM6 window poping up.
You'll find some hard core WM users arguing WM is better, but trust me its not. Its still laggy and dated, and needs a serious overhaul.
Software... now this is where the decision for WM usually gets made. Let me clarify some things here.
iPhone CAN multitask, but doesnt have a task manager as such. It just closes programs when memory is low, or if they specifically don't request to be left open in the background. iPhone essentially runs linux and you can use BSD tools on it like top, ps, etc so under the hood it is a fully multi threaded multi tasking OS. There's very little bloat, like on windows, and you can get low level access to the hardware without having to go through multiple api's like in windows. This make programs alot faster, and screen updates as fast as the hardware can handle.
With the iphone, the phone is 'jailed'. That means you can't access the OS partitions. Software must be signed (by apple) for it to run. On WM you can run unsigned stuff out of the box (you might have seen the popup, this application is from an unknown publisher). Essentially what this means is that anyone can make an app for WM and distribute it, whereas for iphone you have to ask apple to sign it first, or your phone wont accept it.
Apple have said that they will sign free apps, but comercial apps they take 20%. All apps will be hosted on the apple app store and you buy/download through itunes.
With the 2g iphone, people found a way to jailbreak the phone. This allowed you full root access to the phone. They then made an iphone toolchain using the old arm linux toolchain. This contained api's to contructs apple style menus etc. ALOT of free software was written for iphone.
With version 2.0 all the api's changed. The beta is all over the internet, so developers have been looking at it. Alot of the old developers can't be bothered to change to the new API's and update their software. But at the same time alot of new developers have emerged and are using the iphone SDK. Despite what people say here, you can expect ALOT of iphone software in the future.
The main problem is that you will never have total control of the phone like in WM. You will be stuck with what apple aprove. That means fun, maybe not so politicaly correct software (eg dope wars!) may not get aproved.
Its possible and probably the new iphone will be jailbroken too, but apple have a bunch of live connections to the developer site which will probably cause problems. You can expect a ping pong game between apple and hackers every software revision.
.....
Some other notes.. the iphone has unbeleivable talk time. On 3G it can do 5 hours! Now thats ALOT.
iPhone doesnt have copy and paste (yeah go figure).
JanDaMan said:
it uses an an old HSDPA of only 3.5mbps max, the diamond however can go up to HSDPA speeds of 7.3 Mbps! so faster loading web pages and watching youtube videos.
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Keep in mind for web pages you won't see a huge difference between 3.5mbps and 7.3mbps. The longest part of the page load there is typically connection to the network and dns lookup.
You'll see a difference with youtube obviously, but 3.5mbps is obviously fast enough to load the video faster than you can watch it anyway.
Another note, 3G speed decreases significantly with distance from the tower. HSDPA is only usefull close to the tower. So 7.3mbps is only really acheivable very very close to towers. And network coverage for HSDPA is already patchy, if there at all.
^^^Lets not forget that the iphone still doesnt support MMS capability...biggest deal breaker for me as i was considering to get one but not going to bother anymore. You would think that a phone such as the iphone would support mms out of the box but no it doesnt...you need to install a 3rd party app like swirlymms and frankly thats rubbish.
You mentioned the price issue??...£400 for the diamond is pretty damn good if you ask me...i was looking at spending a max of £500 for Diamond as thats what i thought it would fetch...well over at Expansys the grey imports were going for £500+...unlucky for the first buyers as its now come down in price. The iphone 2 sim free ie not on a network is going to be around £400 from what i have been hearing. Think i read somewhere that O2 will be charging that much for the PAYG unit...with a contract the iphone may very well be cheaper but you get tied into an 18 mth contract at £35..so 35x18 works out to about...£630 or thereabouts....so in the long run you end up shelling out more for the iphone....but most people wont really care about that.
One thing i do like about the iphone is the touchscreen...i love my ipod touch...if anything i do prefer the ipod touch screen to the Diamond but im slowly getting used to the Diamond now....awesome piece of kit.
On O2 prepay its going to be £400. On contract it varies from £99 for 18 month £35 contract to free for 18 month £45 contract or above.
For the 16gb its a bit more.
I don't think it'll be sold sim free here. In france its a legal requirement, so you could always get one from there. But expect it to be 500 to 600 pounds!
iPhone 3G only supports 3.6Mbps HSDPA? lol
Btw, to be fair only Vodafone UK provides 7.2Mbps and even so only in a few areas but still it's nice to have the capability on hand... especially since they are selling 7.2Mbps USB dongle modems... it's nice knowing that you won't need one because your Diamond achieves the same speed.
someone1234 said:
Keep in mind for web pages you won't see a huge difference between 3.5mbps and 7.3mbps. The longest part of the page load there is typically connection to the network and dns lookup.
You'll see a difference with youtube obviously, but 3.5mbps is obviously fast enough to load the video faster than you can watch it anyway.
Another note, 3G speed decreases significantly with distance from the tower. HSDPA is only usefull close to the tower. So 7.3mbps is only really acheivable very very close to towers. And network coverage for HSDPA is already patchy, if there at all.
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Well (in london / newcastle in the UK) i get very good HSDPA coverage, but on orange they are still upgrading to the 7.3 mbps standard probably to get ready for mobile TV etc... so i still maintain faster is always better fair pont on the connection to network and dns lookup time but on graphically intensive pages, i feel there will be a noticeable difference between the two HSDPA standards.
To be honest, 7.2 is very very fast for a mobile phone and its processor. I doubt the processor on the phone will be able to receive and render graphics on a web page faster with a faster connection because the bottleneck will be the processing time locally on the phone.
The improvement will be seen when the phone's used as a modem and you download huge files from your laptop.
happyguy82 said:
To be honest, 7.2 is very very fast for a mobile phone and its processor. I doubt the processor on the phone will be able to receive and render graphics on a web page faster with a faster connection because the bottleneck will be the processing time locally on the phone.
The improvement will be seen when the phone's used as a modem and you download huge files from your laptop.
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yeah can it process at 7.2, not sure, but it can process faster than 3.6 and thats the issue, good point with the modem thing too...
chalid said:
I really dont know where this is coming from. I compared the iPhone/iPod Touch Browser with the newest Opera 9.5 and Opera Mini and each of them has there strenghts and weaknesses. Im quite happy with using Opera 9.5 on WM and dont see a reason changing to the iPhone for better webbrowsing.
The only big advantage i see, is the big screen. Its really nice, but makes the phone big too. Another thing is the finger-only usage of the screen, which isnt that desirable if you ask me. Working with a stylus is sometimes easier and faster - especially when writing notes.
Well, all other things were already mentioned in this thread. I personally will stick with Windows Mobile since I am really fast getting tired of using the same skin for too long.
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Hrm, well my opinion on the browser is based on software rather than the hardware aspects of the iPhone.
The manner in which the pages are rendered and the ability to zoom etc is really great (i know that slightly contradicts my first line as the zooming is hardware related).
Don't get me wrong, I'll be getting a Touch Pro most likely (I wouldnt dream of getting an iPhone, it's far too locked down for my liking!).
I just think the browsing experience (bar the speed, or lack thereof) is really good on an iPhone.
EDIT:
With regards to iPhone multi-tasking, I thought it was explicitly stated in the T&C's or the SDK that no program would be allowed to run in the bcakground at all? Could someone clarify?
I currently have a Wizard 200 device with WM6. I am very pleased with the general performance of the device but it is getting old, falling apart (it has been much used and loved) and sorely lacks storage space (2GB maximum). It can be a little slow with some applications and rather unstable with others. It is a bit ugly too.
I love having a keyboard to use and the HTC Raphael 100 looks perfect. I know it is not readily available yet and the Diamond is the closest thing I can compare it with.
The thing that really worries me is battery life. My Wizard lasts 24 hours playing music with the screen off/locked. I can browse on GPRS/EDGE for a suitably long time (although waiting is a big part of GPRS experience. LOL!).
Generally the battery lasts 48 hours between charges two days of communication, music, browsing and messing about. WiFi on the Wizard is a battery killer as it eats through it in less than 4 hours on best battery life setting.
From what I've heard the battery life of the Diamond is quite poor and nobody really knows about the Raphael yet.
So, what I'd like to know is...
What is the battery life like for music playback?
How long does it last on GPRS/EDGE, 3G and WiFi?
Basically the options are keep the Wizard as my main phone and try and repair it. May even take it apart, measure it and make it a new case (it is well out of the warranty period by now)
Get the Raphael when it becomes available on contract (I'd prefer a subsidised phone). It has expandable storage, a fantastic screen, better keyboard than the Wizard and has a snazzy new interface. It can be easily changed to suit my needs and is also rather stylish but without the glossy back.
Get the iPhone 3G common as muck device which isn't really that customisable. It doesn't have applications I tend to use such as Word and Excel. Lacks some very basic things such as copy and paste! It is a very good music device, photo display device and the browser is very usable (although I actually prefer Opera 9.5).
By the way what is the actual HTC designation for the Diamond? Diamond doesn't really seem to be in keeping with their previous designations.
I guess that nobody would like to comment on the battery then...
Tyr said:
I guess that nobody would like to comment on the battery then...
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just to prove you are lazy:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411324&highlight=battery+life
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=410194&highlight=battery+life
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=410044&highlight=battery+life
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=410751&highlight=battery+life
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404891&highlight=battery+life
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=405383&highlight=battery+life
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=408477&highlight=battery+life
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=409292&highlight=battery+life
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=408758&highlight=battery+life
one of the many reviews answering to yr question:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=408335&highlight=battery+life
and so on....
all i did was search for "battery life". did you try? nope. it took me less to search than it took you to write yr posts. now we have one more useless thread. congrats!
keep posting and answering to yrself..lol
ouch
I never thought id see the day, but it seems that developers are now favoring the iphone. The app store is growing considerably and less efforts are made for windows mobile. Let us take Shaznam, sky by mobile, facebook, myspace, ebay etc - all have fast dedicated iphone apps that take advantage of its display, yet the diamond for example has a higher resolution sreen, but (in the case of facebook) is left with terrible alternatives (such as faceimobiliser). Developers are embrasing iphone and leaving windows mobile behind. This depresses me and makes the future of windows mobile uncertain.
Share you views...
Apple and VC's have put a lot of funding into iphone apps development. Then when an app has been created the developer can sell it from the app store, a place with many eyes peering.
I'm not aware of any funding or app store equivelant for windows mobile. Which is a shame.
As a developer myself I can see the appeal for developing for the iphone.
don't you worry. as long xda-dev is here....
i think the reason is the growing number of iPhone users and the potential market for iP software. as for the quality of the software....they'll have to work hard for years to get where we, the wm users are.
Re
I agree, but what has this to do with the diamond, is the general chat not a better forum for this topic...
swiftgs said:
I agree, but what has this to do with the diamond, is the general chat not a better forum for this topic...
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I'll tell you why. Because the Diamond is the most fully fledged windows mobile device that is comparable to the iphone. The iphone gets brilliant apps such as facebook, myspace and more yet the diamond, while able to run apps of this quality, is left out. Yes the facebook app vexes me most, its so freaking awesome on the iphone, I would love to have facebook alerts on my diamond while being able to view pictures full screen on that gorgeous vga screen. The technology of the diamond is being wasted...
Unfortunately, I must concur with you there. It looks to me that WM is facing a dead end, because of performance issues and speed. Using Internet is still an issue and there are a lot of instances when some apps are crashing when installed on such device. Yahoo! Go for example is one of them. MS needs to spend more time and money on teir OS or face the extinction. It's a shame that Diamond looks second rate to iPhone, because of OS problems.
There are MANY iphones in the world, yet in comparison there are VERY FEW Diamonds (or WM phones with VGA screens).
WM7 is the future though.
With Apple's iPhone hype, lots of attention has been drawn to that platform. Many developers want to get on that hype to get some attention right now. However, as the hype passes, I think only real quality programs on the iPhone will have a future, just as only real quality programs are being developed for WM right now.
I think it might not be the Apple platform we should be very affraid for, but possibly the upcoming Android platform, which might get the best of both worlds.
What ever, I would rather die than getting a fruityphone.
fruitphone SUCKS
Remember second best they are!!!!!!!!!!
Im sorry im gonna do this on every fruityphone thread, I just despise the damm fruit.
ok heres the deal
ok so there are 2 reasons that not as many developers are making stuff for win mo as we would like (im a developer by the way) so..
the first reason is that there is no uniformity between windows mobile phones and pocket pcs for instance i have a diamond with:
530mhz cpu
16mb graphics card that developers cant use
192mb of memory (64 of which is not available to use)
a g-sensor
640 by 480 screen
gps hardware
touch scrollwheel and lightsensor with 2 cams
one of my friends got a phone a few weeks ago just before the diamond came out a tytn II (kasier) now its a great phone still but it only has:
400mhz cpu
128mb of memory
320 by 240 screen
gps hardware
lightsensor with 2 cams
now as a dev what do i do?
do i make a great game for the diamond?
do i spend more time and let the project quality suffer by making sure it runs on at least 100 differnt winmo phones?
do i make a game that runs at only 320 by 240 and dosnt use anything new and just hope that all phones from now on can run it?
that is the one thing that the iphone has over us (it may be a very mediocre phone and a crappy gaming/entertainment device but they are all the same) and until this has been rectified we will keep loseing devs to the iphone
BUT something big is going to be happening when windows mobile 7 comes out early next year things will change windows mobile 7 imposes some hardware restrictions to hardware makers these being:
640 by 480 screen rez as a minimum (that must support touch)
16mb graphics hardware that must have fully unlocked drivers for devs
256mb ram as a minimum
512mb rom minimum
tilt sensor is optional but must be compatible with windows mobile 7s tilt api
gps is optional but must be compatible with windows mobile 7s gps api
(gps and tilt are not required but if it has one it must be compatibal with winmo7 by doing this it means that any game that uses a tilt sensor will be able to work on any device with one)
and the biggest one is it must have as a minimum a 600mhz arm11 cpu
all these things will change the way devs make apps and games for winmobile it means that anything made for any winmo7 phone will run on any other winmo7 phone at the same min speed and other than that it will be like a pc game may have low mid and high settings incase you have a 32mb graphics card but they also know that you will have to have a 16mb card at the min
nvidias Tegra is going to be an all in one chip with a 600 or 800mhz arm 11 cpu a 16mb gfx card and image and video decoders all biult in anything that uses this will be fully winmo7 compliant
end rant lol and for anyone that actually bothers to read all of this good job
bump for discussion..
will win mobile 7 be available to usage on the diamond as well ? i'm curious about this and i haven't found any info on this.
on-topic: it's funny how i chose the diamond over the iPhone. my decision relied mostly on the customization abilities of this phone and here i was not thinking of windows mobile since this is my first pocket pc. i was astonished by the sheer posibilities you can find inside such a phone and all available no thanks to the curtesy of the producers but of users like you and me and all the others. i think that as long as we'll be around, so will the developers, because even i could be one if i wanted too, especially cause i just bought a winmobile device that i'm happy with. so it's all about will.
darthbane2k said:
I never thought id see the day, but it seems that developers are now favoring the iphone. The app store is growing considerably and less efforts are made for windows mobile. Let us take Shaznam, sky by mobile, facebook, myspace, ebay etc - all have fast dedicated iphone apps that take advantage of its display, yet the diamond for example has a higher resolution sreen, but (in the case of facebook) is left with terrible alternatives (such as faceimobiliser). Developers are embrasing iphone and leaving windows mobile behind. This depresses me and makes the future of windows mobile uncertain.
Share you views...
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Kid, you already made a thread about this same topic, stop being a little girl and let it go. It's old, it's played, it's done.
Hey,
Firstly, I would like to thank all the developers for making efforts to develop a decent rom for the Xperia. I have tried every single one of them.
Unfortunately I couldn't fall in love with any of them.
Somehow I sense that it must me me that is doing something if other older HTC devices seem to be running way faster on customized roms than the experia with so much hardware potential.
Anyone has the same feeling?
Kind Regards
no.
EDIT: For the sake of order: I've used an HTC Trinity before, which was MUCH slower - even with ultra light roms and maximum free RAM. I compared with the TyTn II, which has just awful landscape-switching speed and was overall slower. Compared with the Touch Pro, I don't see any big differences - and if, with slight advantages for the X1.
So, no, I don't think the X1 is slow or not smooth enough. It just depends on what you're running. TouchFlo3D just slows the system down significantly - even on the (original) HTC devices (like Diamond, Touch Pro or Touch HD).
this is the same comments coming everytime there is a new device.
Look at in.ex polaris...ok device, a bit slow. Now it have optimized 2d and 3d drivers, its damn fast compared to what it used to be...but that didnt happen with a snap of our fingers..
we are just in the beginning of working on x1
So please, be as unimpressed as you want.
have a nice day
cheers
Well, one should not forget, that the x1 has 25% more pixels than Diamond or Touch Pro and even 400% more pixels than Tytn II & Co ...
Let me start by saying I love Android. I love Google. Not only is Android an extremely powerful OS with a wonderful interface but I love the whole open ethos behind it, led by Google, the good guys.
But I just can't for the life of my understand why GPU support is not being introduced, or at least acknowledged that it's missing and it's coming.
I'm running Froyo, and whilst it may well be 500 gazillion times faster crunching numbers and performing data intensive tasks and whatever, it doesn't feel it as I use the phone next to an iphone 3gs.
Manipulating every single screen, every single swipe, window, everything including menus and web browsing just doesn't feel as good as on the iphone. Even if it is is technically faster, what good is it when the thing just doesn't feel as good? It might as well be slower, because how something feels has the bigger impact on people's perceptions.
I understand it's not as easy to accomplish as apple did it being as they only have one phone etc, but surely there's got to be some way?
Why is this issue not bigger within the Android community? Everybody knows the iphone is more fluid to use no matter how much we might want to deny it to ourselves.
It's easy to be smoother when you can't do more than one thing at a time.
Apple moves basically a wallpaper with icons, which is just a picture.
Android moves widgets and live wallpaper. Tons of CPU used for that. Turn off your live wallpaper, disable widgets - get the same scrolling as iPhone.
GPU is there and has nothing to do with it.
Search would have helped avoiding useless complaints in capital letters with tons of "?"s.
If the visuals are so important to you - get an iPhone. System limitations - there's only so much that can be done between battery life, multitasking and graphics. iPhone uses graphics at the expense of multitasking, Android does otherwise.
shrub said:
Let me start by saying I love Android. I love Google. Not only is Android an extremely powerful OS with a wonderful interface but I love the whole open ethos behind it, led by Google, the good guys.
But I just can't for the life of my understand why GPU support is not being introduced, or at least acknowledged that it's missing and it's coming.
I'm running Froyo, and whilst it may well be 500 gazillion times faster crunching numbers and performing data intensive tasks and whatever, it doesn't feel it as I use the phone next to an iphone 3gs.
Manipulating every single screen, every single swipe, window, everything including menus and web browsing just doesn't feel as good as on the iphone. Even if it is is technically faster, what good is it when the thing just doesn't feel as good? It might as well be slower, because how something feels has the bigger impact on people's perceptions.
I understand it's not as easy to accomplish as apple did it being as they only have one phone etc, but surely there's got to be some way?
Why is this issue not bigger within the Android community? Everybody knows the iphone is more fluid to use no matter how much we might want to deny it to ourselves.
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I am the most unbiased person I've ever met and I will honestly tell you that the response on my phone is as fast and smooth as I have ever seen on any phone. I don't think it can get better. I do not like the grid popping in the Nexus Launcher though. I wish it would just scroll like the old versions.
You don't have a real question in all honesty. Your question is, why is it not like the iPhone and why is it not "smooth" to you personally. That's just the way one person feels. I like the way the N1 feels across the entire OS. They're two different OS's and Phones so they're never going to be the same. I think you really just prefer one over the other in your own opinion. Neither of them can be called better outside of an opinion so nothing will change.
I will sacrifice fluidity any day for functionality.
Also, do you have any idea of what Android has come from, in the sense of versioning? I am certain that this is almost identical the iPhone OS/Hardware Saga from version 1 and up.
I have a question. Why is there so much comparison to iphone. I think android Smashes them but why post topic after topic about that... where's that one mod. He should delete this.
temperbad said:
I have a question. Why is there so much comparison to iphone. I think android Smashes them but why post topic after topic about that... where's that one mod. He should delete this.
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There is always a comparison of the top two of anything. Android and iPhone are very similar and they're they top devices so they're going to get compared. 99.999% of the comparisons are biased in some way but the fact is that neither of them are factually better than the other. They both have amazing features that the other doesn't and the word "better" and your decision come down to your personal preferences. I don't like iTunes, I think widgets are a MUST for me and I enjoy modding my phone without going through hell to do it or getting the cops called on me so I chose Android. Also I have been behind everything Google has done for many years and I will continue to love the company but biased attitudes are something I try to avoid. Not only do you not learn anything but you look foolish acting that way [I'm not talking about you personally I'm speaking in general].
Wow, I'm surprised to see that I'm one of the only people who completely agree with the original poster.
This isn't limited to the launcher. As the OP stated, literally every on screen motion is smoother on the iPhone.
This isn't because of the lack of multitasking on the iPhone because iOS 4 looks just as smooth.
It is either a consequence of the threading used in gui programs and/or better use of the GPU for animations and scrolling. It seems to me on my Nexus that in most cases scrolling and animations are slower when the CPU is processing something where as on an iPhone the scrolling seems smooth regardless of the processes involved.
One of my complaints along these lines is scrolling in the Android web browser isn't nearly as nice as even the slower iPhone 3G, much less an iPhone 3GS.
dalingrin said:
Wow, I'm surprised to see that I'm one of the only people who completely agree with the original poster.
This isn't limited to the launcher. As the OP stated, literally every on screen motion is smoother on the iPhone.
This isn't because of the lack of multitasking on the iPhone because iOS 4 looks just as smooth.
It is either a consequence of the threading used in gui programs and/or better use of the GPU for animations and scrolling. It seems to me on my Nexus that in most cases scrolling and animations are slower when the CPU is processing something where as on an iPhone the scrolling seems smooth regardless of the processes involved.
One of my complaints along these lines is scrolling in the Android web browser isn't nearly as nice as even the slower iPhone 3G, much less an iPhone 3GS.
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Agreed, Ill take Android's greater capabilities over Iphone's fluidity any day but both would be sweet.
DMaverick50 said:
Agreed, Ill take Android's greater capabilities over Iphone's fluidity any day but both would be sweet.
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Without a doubt. I'm just not convinced the two are mutually exclusive.
Paul22000 said:
It's easy to be smoother when you can't do more than one thing at a time.
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Once I saw this post I knew I didn't have to look at the rest of the thread since this answered it all
I disable screen animations. I have no need for worthless eye-candy. Just give me whatever I tapped on as fast as possible.
Love it.
mortzz said:
I disable screen animations. I have no need for worthless eye-candy. Just give me whatever I tapped on as fast as possible.
Love it.
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I either turn the animations off or turn their speed up. IMO scrolling is more of an issue than animations.
Example:
Goto www.androidcentral.com or www.anandtech.com on a Nexus One and with the page zoomed all the way out try scrolling. At the top of the page my frame rate is <15.
Now do the same on a wee iPhone(even first gen) and see how smooth the scrolling is.
Is it end of the world? No, of course not. I am very satisfied with my phone compared to my previous iPhone 3GS and 3G. That said, considering my main use of my phone(beyond being a phone) is web browsing, I would still love to have the scrolling of my "crap" iPhone.
Its a genuine complaint.
The lack of smooth visuals is getting silly. I think Google bringing in the guy from Palm/Danger is an ackowledgment of this.
Its not cpu , its not ram, its not multitasking. Its Apple that has some if not the best UI guys in the business in terms of visuals. Id say WebOS guys were the tops but they were mostly old Apple guys so go figure.
Apple spends a ton of time and offort making sure everything looks fluid across the entire experience. Android does not. Its simply not something theyve taken seriously until 2.1. They are the best engineers in the world..not GUI designers. The fact the Gallery still has 16 bit depth is a tell tale sign they arent emphasizing visuals.
Anyways the GPU is underused. UI , Games , Codecs theres a alot of room for improvement. Androids UI is "better"...but lets not kid ourselves..the animations and fluidity are heavily in Apples corner. Loks are important; otherwise go date a fat hairy girl.
I thought I was quite picky but I don't notice any problems with my nexus
Maybe I haven't spent that much time playing with iPhones but when I have seen people using them they press something and have to wait for it to load, they get a grey checker pattern when they scroll too fast in the browser. Sometimes their swipes didn't register either.
xManMythLegend said:
Its a genuine complaint.
The lack of smooth visuals is getting silly. I think Google bringing in the guy from Palm/Danger is an ackowledgment of this.
Its not cpu , its not ram, its not multitasking. Its Apple that has some if not the best UI guys in the business in terms of visuals. Id say WebOS guys were the tops but they were mostly old Apple guys so go figure.
Apple spends a ton of time and offort making sure everything looks fluid across the entire experience. Android does not. Its simply not something theyve taken seriously until 2.1. They are the best engineers in the world..not GUI designers. The fact the Gallery still has 16 bit depth is a tell tale sign they arent emphasizing visuals.
Anyways the GPU is underused. UI , Games , Codecs theres a alot of room for improvement. Androids UI is "better"...but lets not kid ourselves..the animations and fluidity are heavily in Apples corner. Loks are important; otherwise go date a fat hairy girl.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. Android really just isn't the most aesthetically pleasing user interface around, I've never owned an iPhone - and don't plan to, but Apple simply knows their stuff when it comes graphic design..
There's been some info on this issue on the android-platform groups and the skia rendering engine group (Skia acutally has an experimental OpenGL rendering branch).
From what I understand, hardware acceleration can't be implemented in older devices (ex: G1) because they only support one OpenGL instance at a time, meaning the launcher could be in conflit with apps. It also seems as if the stuttering we feel is actually caused by Android's garbage colletor because it blocks the UI thread when it kicks in and not because the phone's cpu cant keep up with scrolling. If you watched some of the Google I/O 2010 videos, they said they know of the issues with the garbage collector and they are working on it.
My guess is that hardware acceleration will come sooner or later (specially with the Tegra 2 chips and tablet format ) but if you want to make things move a bit you can always go to code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 and star the issue (consider it a vote ).
New here btw, hello all
dalingrin said:
I either turn the animations off or turn their speed up. IMO scrolling is more of an issue than animations.
Example:
Goto www.androidcentral.com or www.anandtech.com on a Nexus One and with the page zoomed all the way out try scrolling. At the top of the page my frame rate is <15.
Now do the same on a wee iPhone(even first gen) and see how smooth the scrolling is.
Is it end of the world? No, of course not. I am very satisfied with my phone compared to my previous iPhone 3GS and 3G. That said, considering my main use of my phone(beyond being a phone) is web browsing, I would still love to have the scrolling of my "crap" iPhone.
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I just tested anandtech.com on my N1 using Dolphin HD and have Froyo installed. The page was pretty much butter smooth except the top which had a flash banner ad and a flash "news reel". Of course the iPhone is going to be smoother at the top of that page since it doesn't show any flash elements. Not to say I don't want smoother scrolling when there are flash elements, but I'd rather have them showing with a little choppy frame rate than not at all.
RE: GPU Support
It's a common misconception that Android is slow changing windows and stuff- just go to Spare Parts and turn the window animations off.
my nexus next to the iphone, the nexus is just as smooth and fast to my eyes. the nexus is actually buttery smooth. using launcher pro. maybe that is what makes the difference i bet.