Database Develop

Original HTC ROM may be better for some in USA

I have the HTC branded P3600 unlocked.
I tried out both LVSW's cooked ROM and the latest Dopod D810 ROM. Both are excelllent updates, but turned out not to be right for me. Thought I'd share in case this is useful to anyone else.
I am in an area of Los Angeles in the US which still does not yet have 3G. I also don't personally need the GPS feature. I am fine with an ordinary map and I need my battery life for phone and email. That is just my personal preference.
Anyway, in my case, I found three pitfalls with the new ROMs.
1. The phone got hotter and used more battery. I assume that the GPS was trying to do its thing even though I wasn't actually using it.
2. Signal can be sketchy at my home. The HTC P3600 has been the first PDA phone to give me a full strength signal here, on a par with a standard cell phone. But with the new ROMs my full bar strength fell in half. I assume this is to do with further optimizations for 3G which, unfortunately, currently give me no benefit. Anyhow, I got weaker GPRS/EDGE and weaker GSM.
3. The Dopod ROM (and LVSW cooked variant - which is a very nice job BTW) have significantly different ActiveSync/Direct Push settings. The Heartbeat Increments and other related settings are quite different. This was not good for my Exchange service and Push Mail. I started getting my mail at about 5 minute intervals, not right away. Some kind of timeout going on I guess. Of course, I was able to dip into the registry and make adjustments, but with my lower EDGE signal, things still were not working quite as well.
Bottom line: I went back to the Official HTC P3600 ROM (fortunately I had saved it before it had to be removed from the XDA-Dev FTP site. (HTC do not provide even the original ROM to customers at this time). There was no problem going back. So no harm, no foul.
I did save the HTC Task Manager application and added it back in. Nice addition, missing from the original HTC version. So it was definitely worth trying the new ROMs all in all.
Obviously, the issue here is that my local Network is lacking - the new ROMs are good. But the fact remained the original ROM gives me much better performance here, particularly battery life, signal strength and more reliable Direct Push.

Sorry for the unrelated post, but I needed some help after reading your post.
I am also in the Los Angeles area (OC) with T-Mobile.
I got an unlocked trinity about 2 months ago. It has worked very well, except I do not seem to be able to connect to Edge. Your post seemed to indicate that you have been able to connect to it.
Can you please tell me how I can make that happen?
Also, which GPS software would you recommend for Southern California, if I chose to enable the GPS hardware on my machine.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks

Hi Kewlphone! I think (hope!) you are actually getting Edge. For some reason the HTC P3600 simply displays the G symbol even when you are getting Edge. To be fair I think Edge is just an upgraded form of GPRS. Actually if you install the Dopod ROM it does give you the E symbol. There may well be a registry tweak to show an E, but I just don't know it.
There are no special settings needed. I just connect to wap.voicestream.com.
internet2.voicestream.com also works with my Internet plan, but I prefer to connect the first one as it also is the right one for picture messaging. Also you want to have T-Mobile Internet, not just the T-Mobile Web plan (formery t-zones) which is restricted to sites for phones and does not allow full Internet access or downloading attachments.
T-Mobile just tightened up their protocols dues to a cheat some people had been using to get full access out of the Web plan. This temporarily messed up my Internet access but tech support reprovisioned my account as I pay for the full Internet plan.
First off, I suggest you check your actual download speeds using
http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed?jisok=1
It is speed test specially for Mobile devices. If you get around 30 to 40 kbps ish that is standard GPRS. Edge should be around 100 to 120 ish in practice. Obviously it varies a lot by time of day, location etc.
There is also a registry tweak I found that may help download speed. You need a registry editor like Total Commander available from ghisler.com (You would want to download the 2.5 beta version for WM5. It is free).
The registry setting involved determines how much data the device will accept in a chunk.
HKLM\Comm\Tcpip\Parms\TcpWindowSize
If your device has this parameter set to less than 65536 change it to this amount. This helped me get consisitent Edge speeds. I am not aware of any harm that will be done be setting it higher still, other than you may need to set it back again if it doesn't work right!
Sorry, I have no experience with GPS software. The program people mention generally is Tom Tom. I believe this is the defacto choice for many people and it is made for many different devices. I am sure the company has a web site. If not I am sure it is available at places like mobileplanet.com.
Please bear in mind that we people using this site (XDA-dev) are enthusiasts who like to tweak and customize our phones. It is not our objective to help ourselves to free software, only to get the most out of the devices and the built-in software we have already paid for... I don't mean to suggest you are looking for any free downloads and you certainly did not imply that. I am just conscious there has just been an issue with Microsoft objecting to some of the downloads on this site so we need to be careful to keep things absolutely clearly legit. Tom Tom is a commericial product not included with the P3600 and will need to be purchased separately.
HTH

I am also in LA (West side.) Here is my experience:
I use LVSW's ROM and get 3G (Cingular.) Just tested a 1MB file download from the dslreports link above and got 642kbit/sec. There are some areas in town where it goes to E (for EDGE,) but at least in my case it's not too often (it went to E yesterday in the Custom's area at LAX, but to be honest, I was just happy to get signal there
The GPS works great. I don't really use it here, because I have built-in ones in my cars, but it is very handy when travelling.
I also don't use Cingular's push mail, but use my POP3 mail account, and have set the Trinity to check it every 15 minutes, which works fine for me.

642kbps?? WOW! Excuse me while a turn as green as the HTC theme with envy! That is intersting for me as I am also on LA's west side. BTW I concur about reception inside LAX customs area. Just being able to make a regular call from there is a feat! Hardly a concern that your data merely dropped to Edge speed!
I had been considering switching to Cingular to get 3G, although both where I live and where I work are both actually just off the official 3G map at the moment.... Switching would also just about double my bill, and put me back in a contract. So I am holding out till 3G coverage settles down a bit more. Looks like T-Mobile are finally going to 3G here, though that may still take many months...
Do Cingular even offer there own Push Mail? I was under the impression that their Xpress mail service retreives mail something like the T-Mobile equivilent (15 minutes intervals) I use Direct Push from my Exchange account so it requires only the Data connection, nothing else carrier specific.
Sorry, I am getting way off topic. This is not carrier comparision forum!
The relevant point is that it is good to know that the LVSW ROMs seems like the best for people in the USA too, assuming your carrier has 3G and especially if you use GPS. My situation sounds like the exception and will likely be transitory anyway.
BTW MacGuy2006, I think kewlphone might appreciate your advice on GPS software. Sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with it.
Thanks for the info I might join you on Cingular yet! I also think we may soon see even more ROM magic from our friend LVSW too!

Yeah, I am sort of satisfied with Cingular, and really do like 3G, which finally makes PDA Internet use a possibility for me (I can read the wires if I am stuck somewhere They refer to "push-mail," but I have not tried it, so I don't know if it's instantaneous or not.
As to GPS software, I use TomTom 6, which is generally fine and has a broad range of maps. I kind of like the design of Navigon 6 a bit better (http://www.navigon.com/site/us/en/mobile_navigation/pda/screenshots,) but have not seen it in action.
As an aside, yesterday I installed the 1.38.00.11 radio ROM lurking here, and my 3G speeds never exceeded the mid-400s. It may have been a fluke, but I went back to 1.35 and clocked in the mid-700

Thanks for sharing that info. Just to check, do you find you are able to up and downgrade just the Radio ROMs without a hard reset? TIA

I'm using the Dopod Rom with the 1.38 radio upgrade. As expected, the battery life is significantly reduced with the GPS enabled (using TomTom6), but overall I really like the fact that my phone can basically do anything now.
I think it might have more difficulty picking up signals now than it did with the original HTC rom. When I'm in my home office, I really don't get any signal at all now, which my plethora of computer equipment doesn't help, but the phone shows a solid four bars when I'm at work, and it connects to Edge very fast there too.
I tried both TomTom 6.02 and 6.03, and 6.03 is definitely better. It automatically knows to use the built-in GPS receiver (You don't have to select NMEA, COM 9), and it grabs the signal faster. Unfortunately I couldn't get the maps activated for 6.03, but they don't have any problem with 6.02, so I'm stuck with it.
I'm definitely looking forward to upgrading to WM6. Woot!
-John

flamingcrumb said:
Thanks for sharing that info. Just to check, do you find you are able to up and downgrade just the Radio ROMs without a hard reset? TIA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I backed up, reinstalled the LVSW ROM and restored

Hi flamingcrumb,
Thank you for your detailed response.
I have the full t-mo web plan, but have specifically taken access to internet3.voicestream.com becuase of VPN access needs.
I ran a speed test on my device and it shows 39 kbps. That tells me it is a regular GPRS connection. Do you know of any areas in the region where Edge is available? Sounds like westside may be one.
As far as GPS software goes, I was looking for recommendations based on availability and correctness of maps for southern cal. I had purchased and used Ostia in the past, however I did not like either the interface or stability.
Thanks

kewlphone said:
... As far as GPS software goes, I was looking for recommendations based on availability and correctness of maps for southern cal....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can compare maps here: http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=53419
AFAIK, TomTom uses Tele Atlas maps, which are fine (but I had one problem finding a a street in Orange County.) Navigon, I believe, uses Navteq maps, which I think of as more accurate (one of mine built-in navigation systems uses Navteq maps, and it has never lied to me

I appreciate the helpful posts on using GPS and the various software options. Good to know. Nothing I can add, you good people all know way more than I do, I don't see reduced battery life with GPS as a "fault" in any way - just a law of physics. For example, if I had my phone on for web browsing all the time at full brightness and used bluetooth plus wireless non-stop, the battery is going to run down faster. That's fair enough. I did notice there seemed to be a little bit of more drain with the GPS ROMs even with GPS inactive. I wonder if it ticks away in the background ready for use? It does certainly seem that enabling additional features might be reducing standard GSM sgnal strength. My feeling is that a little bit of internal radio interference might be a reasonable thing to expect. The Trinity has goodness how many radios? 4 bands of GSM, 3 Bands of w/CDMA, BlueTooth, WiFi, GPS... all in a device the size of deck of cards. Again, the laws of physics may simply apply.
The bottom line I get from this is there is unlikely to be a benefit in upgrading to a ROM which provides features I am not accessing. That doesn't mean the new ROMs are anything less than great, just not of benefit with my carrier in my location at this moment.
kewlphone, I definitely think you should be getting Edge speeds everywhere in the Los Angeles and Orange County areas, without even doing any tweaks. Bear in mind the standard HTC P3600 ROM always seems to just show the G, the key test is the speed not the symbol. But the speed you describe is not Edge. It will vary by time of day and location etc, so it is worth repeating the test quite a few times. You defintely should be seeing at least 100k when you have a full signal strength in urban areas, especially at off-peak hours... at least some of the time! I think you should call Customer Support and ask for a data specialist and talk it over with them. Perhaps they can reset your data account or help in some way. The positive spin I always go for to keep them on my side even though I have an unsupported phone is by explaining I am a loyal customer but the phones they offer don't meet my needs at present. So I am using my own phone because otherwise I would have to switch to another carrier and I don't want to "because you guys are so great" etc etc. In a few months there will be more T-Mobile phones available and I will be getting one. In the meantime I need to make things work so I can stay with T-Mobile. This is a semi-truth and but greatly overstates my loyalty, which is really only limited to the killer deal I get on a huge bucket of minutes (and is being serverely tested by their lagging in the 3G...) but it is a positive spin to give them a good reason to help me even though my phone is unsupported.
BTW I describe the Trinity as being most like the MDA but a generation or two on. If you get a decent data technician the chances are good they will know what you are talking about and will also be well away of T-Mo's limitations themselves. Chances are good they will do their best to help.
A place that might be helpful and more appropriate for discussing US carrier issues is howardforums dot com. They also have a Wiki which is quite useful. Obviously the XDA-Dev forum is for the tech stuff and tweaking to the the max! I think I have the same user name on howardforums so maybe we can find a good thread for trouble shooting our carrier stuff over there. Don't think I have actually posted yet but I will do as I ultimately need to decide whether to stick with T-Mo or jump to Cingy/ATT. If you register with the same name it will be easy for me spot you on their board. All the best. Please let me know about your progress

Sorry to bump this thread when it is probably only of interest to a small number of people - perhaps mostly in L.A. on T-Mo.
Quick update: I must confess that I caved in and have switched to Cingy/ATT. Much better signal strength where I live, even just on EDGE. I don't like their sky high rates or customer service all that much, plus their data plans are a riduculously complicated mess of choices... but they do have a lot of 3G and much better coverage in my location...oh well. Also feel like it will still surely take T-Mo a lot of time to deploy their own 3G... and I can always go back later!
Anyway, it now really made sense for me to upgrade my ROM. I have also been trying out GPS, just wih the free Google Maps for the monent as a little taster test! Pretty cool though
Another really big reason I gave up on the standard ROM was that I kept having the age old issue of my reminders not sounding and could cure only it with a hard reset each time. It has yet to be seen if the updated ROM helps or not. I realize the non-sounding reminders issue is a well known Windows Mobile problem, but it was happening every couple of weeks rather than once in a while. Anyone got any thoughts on this please???
The reminders issue is probably my biggest factor in picking a ROM and there is no obvious way of choosing between the HTC/LVSW/Dopod options other than trying them all. I cling to av ague hope someone might have already been through this one...
Oh, BTW I am using LVSW 1.24.0.0 with Radio 1.33.00.11
TIA

You only need the $19.99 unlimited media works plan to take advantage of 3G. Cingular will tell you that you must have the $49.99 pda plan but you do not, trust me I use my trinity with the media works plan and I use 3G perfect usually around 350kbs, for streaming video.

turcomora said:
You only need the $19.99 unlimited media works plan to take advantage of 3G. Cingular will tell you that you must have the $49.99 pda plan but you do not, trust me I use my trinity with the media works plan and I use 3G perfect usually around 350kbs, for streaming video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here...i'm using the unlimited $19.99 plan and i also use my phone for internet sharing with my laptop (e.g., phone as a modem).

Thanks good people. I had noticed that the MEdia Net plans seems to do the job (without restriction if the proxy is not used) but could not be sure if that was a lucky fluke or that is how it is...
Good to hear the definite facts from people with solid experience.... and I much appreciate it.
Coming in, I do really think the Cingy data plans are a confusing mess... I would imagine the average Joe or Jane walking into a phone store could feel overwhelmed. I think they should simplify the plans... but what do I know? (Not much, I admit!)
While we are talking Trinty and Cingular may I ask which ROM people feel is best for stabilty right now? I was having that prob with reminders not sounding... an old issue, but much worse than usual! Any guidance would be welcomed.
Best
P.S. turcomora, when you mention Streaming Video are you talking Cingy Video>...? I have been following the threads but still can't get that to work. Or are you refering to something else, like the Streaming Media application (which I have yet to figure out a use for!) Either way I would be most interested. Thanks again and B4N

GPS Issue: Loss of satellites -> Softreset necessary?

Hi!
I encountered a strange GPS behaviour and wanted to share this with you / maybe someone has an idea bout this one:
On a businessjourney i wanted to log my way with my kaiser, and everything went fine so far. But after several hunderts of kilometres, kaiser lost more and more satellites till only 1 was left and the values were unuseable (phantasy-koordinates, speed and altitude too).
I am 100% sure that it was not a problem with our jet or any kind of shielding in it - because after a softreset it could lock again on 8 to 12 satellites. I could approve this strange loss of statellites on longer flights and car etappes (lets say 500km+) now several times.
Any idea what could be the reason?

Did the airline crew know you were using a gps device?

unwired4 said:
Did the airline crew know you were using a gps device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares, GPS device is just a receiver, they use several of them in cockpit. Even GSM mobile phone intereference is exaggerated...

Well, since it was our own jet and pilot i guess that its ok
But back to the issue: A friend of mine could acknowledge that he has the same problem when traveling over a certain distance by car.
Is it possible, that this has something to do with QuickGPS where the receiver calculates extimated postitions of the satellites (and those triangulations will be false when moving too far)? Is QuickGPS postition-dependend?
Any ideas highly appreciated...

licht77 said:
Well, since it was our own jet and pilot i guess that its ok
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good answer
It could be, but quickgps only provides a pre-download of the ephemeris data so that the GPS unit does not have to download it from the satellites. If it does not have the quickgps data, it could download it from the sats (thats why a normal lock takes so long), so I would guess not, unless maybe download of new data from sats is turned off if quickgps is turned on.
I see no option to specify location in quickgps but then again it could look at the handset's country code or something. Surely though it is kilobytes in size at max so downloading the whole world's data via GSM/3G would be no biggie.
On a side note, I get the same issue on my Kaiser even if I stay local sometimes. I *think* it may be getting stuck on A-GPS (Using cell phone masts to get a rough fix) - maybe try and disable A-GPS as it would be no use in a jet?

I have experienced the same thing once - and that was after using the Kaiser in a jet for only a few minutes. Once I landed, I started TomTom and was placed over 700 miles from my actual position. A soft rest cured it; I was a bit worried that the high speeds of a jet might have confused/fried my GPS, but all was fine after a soft reset.

You may see what I mean here: xxx (username and password: test): Right above Toledo / Madrid the GPS readings go crazy... :-(

Could this be the mythical 'Barcelona Triangle' ?

Interesting, you might try posting this at GPSpassion.com forum. They are the experts in GPS. It's odd that it would loose sats as the view of the sky couldn't be much better and you'd think that it would be able to keep up things, even at jet speeds the number of visible satellites wouldn't change. I would try it with GPS ON and Phone radio OFF as this might rule out any cell tower issues.

RemE said:
Interesting, you might try posting this at GPSpassion.com forum. They are the experts in GPS. It's odd that it would loose sats as the view of the sky couldn't be much better and you'd think that it would be able to keep up things, even at jet speeds the number of visible satellites wouldn't change. I would try it with GPS ON and Phone radio OFF as this might rule out any cell tower issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! I tried it with GSM off - with no improvement. It seems that this is some kind of bug in the GPS-receiver?
If you have an user in that forum - feel free to post this issue!
Thx, Licht

I do experience this problem too. I was thinking it is the problem of the chip, has anyone tried the external antenna and does the problem still persist?

ZorMi said:
Who cares, GPS device is just a receiver, they use several of them in cockpit. Even GSM mobile phone intereference is exaggerated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might be exaggerated... but considering how much interference a normal GSM signal has with household electronics (and yes, commercial jetliners are heavily shielded)... it's still kind of scary.
I actually discovered I left my phone on in my bag on a Frontier Airlines flight when the GSM modem started up at around 15,000 feet and the in-seat screen in front of me started flickering and I got that cool 'ch-ch-ch-ch' noise in my headphones.
Whoops.
It's probably safe to have the GPS on, but you really should turn off the radio.. there's no telling what wiring is running next to/under your seat, and there might just be an antenna above your head that you don't know about. It's just not worth the risk (plus, if you get caught.. well.. it's a federal offense).
If you just ask, some pilots will let you turn your GPS unit on in the plane (the flight attendants will ask him/her)... Delta Airlines doesn't seem to have any problem with this, while United and American do.

I think you'll find the answer to this thread is to do with the travelling speed and height.
Dedicated flight GPS units have a much faster baud rate for data transfer and the unit itself has virtually no other background tasks to take care of.
The 'Kaiser' GPS is primarily designed as a 'walkabout' unit and can just cope with vehicle speeds. If the data shows a marked change in position (due to say travelling at a few hundred kph) then the GPS firmware believes it has an erroneous sat lock and tries to re-aquire causing the confused output.
Also, Ephemeris data is incorrect for ionospheric distortion when you are at above 25,000 thousand feet so if it tries to use QuickGPS it will actually lengthen the acquisition time.
Try it next time with both A-GPS and QuickGPS off (QuickGPS auto disables if data is out of date so just disable downloads) and note what speed/height you are when is goes crazy.

As far as i know, there is no profen evidence that one single plane was downed by a gsm signal. Additionally, i have seen Boeings where all TFT Flatscreens started heavy flickering when the intercom was running - so dont mix up important avionic board systems with unimportant, unshielded secondary systems Here in europe all commercial planes have excellent shielding standards - and there are several commerical and private planetypes around which already come up with internal gsm-repeaters and satellite connections to the gsm-groundstations (the reasons for low usage are missing business models and - i guess annoyance). And - as i said - it was our own jet and pilot, and so its me who makes the rules in there :-D
So much for offtopic.
But I really would like to know what causes this "satellite loss" and "mis-positioning" problems... - this probably makes some killerapplications impossible
Does anybody know if a-gps is geographically influenced? Anybody has further informations about how our Kaisers keep the fix on the satellites?

Farsquidge said:
I think you'll find the answer to this thread is to do with the travelling speed and height.
Dedicated flight GPS units have a much faster baud rate for data transfer and the unit itself has virtually no other background tasks to take care of.
The 'Kaiser' GPS is primarily designed as a 'walkabout' unit and can just cope with vehicle speeds. If the data shows a marked change in position (due to say travelling at a few hundred kph) then the GPS firmware believes it has an erroneous sat lock and tries to re-aquire causing the confused output.
Also, Ephemeris data is incorrect for ionospheric distortion when you are at above 25,000 thousand feet so if it tries to use QuickGPS it will actually lengthen the acquisition time.
Try it next time with both A-GPS and QuickGPS off (QuickGPS auto disables if data is out of date so just disable downloads) and note what speed/height you are when is goes crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx for your informations - your ideas sound plausible! But on the flight i posted before, u can see that we were travelling about 2.5 hours at 10.000 metres and 800 km/h before everything went crazy within 60 seconds (Placemark 273 is plausible, 275 insane)... but i turned GSM off to save battery... so a-gps and quick-gps should have been off too (correct me if i am wrong)...?

licht77 said:
Thx for your informations - your ideas sound plausible! But on the flight i posted before, u can see that we were travelling about 2.5 hours at 10.000 metres and 800 km/h before everything went crazy within 60 seconds (Placemark 273 is plausible, 275 insane)... but i turned GSM off to save battery... so a-gps and quick-gps should have been off too (correct me if i am wrong)...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A-GPS would be disabled but QuickGPS would still be active as it is just a downloaded info table.
It would only need loss of signal for a few seconds, say your reception was detuned by a flight manouver or you moved the location of the unit within the plane (signal strength is poor within an aircraft body without external antenna) to cause it to get confused and at speed it takes ages for a lock. You can see a big difference just starting the GPS standing still against starting it in a moving car.

Consumer GPS devices misread at high speeds and altitudes. Government regulations keep them from functioning to prohibit their use in the construction of ICBM's since most devices use a version of a generic GPS chip. Think I'm nuts? Google it.

xconradx said:
Consumer GPS devices misread at high speeds and altitudes. Government regulations keep them from functioning to prohibit their use in the construction of ICBM's since most devices use a version of a generic GPS chip. Think I'm nuts? Google it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, I don't think you are nuts! You are perfectly correct!
There are 3 types, consumer, commercial and military. (four if you count the US who contol the network and have the best).

Farsquidge said:
A-GPS would be disabled but QuickGPS would still be active as it is just a downloaded info table.
It would only need loss of signal for a few seconds, say your reception was detuned by a flight manouver or you moved the location of the unit within the plane (signal strength is poor within an aircraft body without external antenna) to cause it to get confused and at speed it takes ages for a lock. You can see a big difference just starting the GPS standing still against starting it in a moving car.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I guess i will give this a try as i found out how to deactivate QuickGPS
@xconradx: No youre not nuts - i can confirm that there are regulations (thats why we are gonna send up Gallileo *g*) - but i can hardly believe that this was the bugger: The readings were accurate (too accurate to prevent abuse) for 2:45min - and then the readings were just insane.
I hope we can find a workaround...

Haha, I'm glad people dont think I'm a nutjob... I've tried to explain the regulated GPS to people before and was called "paranoid, crazy", whatever....
Thats weird that it read so well for a period. I just know that basics!

Navizon - earn money while you drive/walk around!

Hi everyone,
I don't know if you have heard of Navizon yet, but it's a great way to earn money by using your phone whilst travelling around with your GPS and Wifi switched on.
Navizon is a wireless positioning system that works a little bit like a GPS, only that it uses Cellular Towers and Wifi access points instead of satellites. In addition to being a wireless position system, Navizon lets you earn money by using the Navizon reward system.
Your phone maps the location of Wifi points and Cell Towers then sends them to Navizon. They give you points for each one you find and 10,000 points = $10 (It sounds like a lot of points BUT they build up really quick, especially if you are mapping areas that nobody else has done yet as you get more points for new areas!)
If you're interested all you need to do is register with Navizon HERE (this is my referral link - by using it to register I get some referral points at no cost to you ) then install the software on your phone from HERE and get Navizon connected to your GPS. Every Wifi access points that you pass, every cell tower that you log will earn you money.
When you have a) registered and b) installed the software - you can make sure it all works ok by loading up Navizon and checking the settings:
Goto Menu>Options> and scroll left to see the GPS tab.
On the GPS tab set the following:
GPS: COM4: (ActiveDevice)
Baud Rate: 4800 (9600 on Tilts/Kaisers is best apparently)
Auto start unticked
Output port: Off
Use Physical output port is ticked.
Then go to the Account tab. Enter the account name and password you registered with - without those nothing syncs and your points go nowhere!
Click OK and if your settings are correct you should start to see three green lights for Phone, Wifi and GPS - it can take a little while to get going. (If you don’t see Wifi, exit the program, launch Wifi, then restart the program)
Your phone should now pick up Access Points (via Wifi) and Cells (Via the Phone) at which point you should see a count appear at the bottom of the screen.
It will start with "0 APs and 0 Cells located" then as it finds a site (either AP or Cell) those numbers will increase e.g. if it found 3 Access Points and 1 Cell Tower you would see 3 APs and 1 Cell located.
Once those numbers show on the counter your phone is seeing sites and you can sync then to add points to your account (Menu > Sync)
It can take a few hours for them to update the points showing on your account so be patient (mine took around 4 hours to appear at first).
For every 10,000 points you gain they send $10 to you via Paypal - its money for (almost) nothing!!
For tips on how to maximise the points you find see THIS post
If you have any questions feel free to ask me.....
Zippyioa

I am going to give this a shot since I drive around a lot. But I installed the software and I am running it....but the Wifi and the GPS aren't doing anything...and I don't see anything to configure these to work.

2 points here 10 pts there and you need 10,000 to get $19.99. AND it has to be different access pts or towers to count for points.
Sorry but this isn't worth the gas spent, imo

DeniaL said:
I am going to give this a shot since I drive around a lot. But I installed the software and I am running it....but the Wifi and the GPS aren't doing anything...and I don't see anything to configure these to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Denial,
If you drive a lot (and make sure you run the software when you do!!) you should get some decent $ as you will find lots of Access Points and Cell towers.
To configure it for GPS click menu>Options>GPS (you may have to scroll left to see the GPS tab)
On the GPS page you need to choose the COM port that is right for your device. My MDA Vario III is COM4: (ActiveDevice) and I chose Baud Rate: 115200 and ticked Auto Start.
It would also be worth making sure you enter your details on the Account tab - you set these up when you registered at http://my.navizon.com/Webapps/UserAdmin/register.aspx?referral_code=5D565A5C5A57
As for the WiFi - I usually turn my wifi on in the comm manager before I start up Navizon.
I hope that helps, but please let me know if you have more questions.
Cheers
Zippyioa

Woof_ said:
2 points here 10 pts there and you need 10,000 to get $19.99. AND it has to be different access pts or towers to count for points.
Sorry but this isn't worth the gas spent, imo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends how you look at it Woof - the points required do look high, but if you drive a lot they rack up quickly - I got just over 500 points driving a mile into town today to go buy my food supplies - a journey I was doing anyway.
It wouldn't be sensible to drive around specifically to make money on this program, but if you are doing the journey anyway surely if you can earn some money whilst doing so - it has to be worthwhile??
Aside from making money whilst using it you can also setup Buddies on it, so if you have friends with GPS enabled devices and they install it, you can see where they are as they drive around.
Also its worth noting that many users have said they find EXTRA Access Points when they are on foot or on a bike as you pick up more when you are going slow. Its great as you get paid to get healthy!
Cheers
Zippyioa

zippyioa said:
On the GPS page you need to choose the COM port that is right for your device. My MDA Vario III is COM4: (ActiveDevice) and I chose Baud Rate: 115200 and ticked Auto Start.
It would also be worth making sure you enter your details on the Account tab - you set these up when you registered at http://my.navizon.com/Webapps/UserAdmin/register.aspx?referral_code=5D565A5C5A57
As for the WiFi - I usually turn my wifi on in the comm manager before I start up Navizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kaiser's GPS should be set to 4800 so you don't corrupt access to it for other programs.
Remember all APs and Cells count as long as it's NEW to YOUR account. It doesn't matter if somebody else already found it first.
Have you seen how many cells and APs lie around? One way on a 50 mile route, you can rack up something like 5000 points.

NuShrike said:
Kaiser's GPS should be set to 4800 so you don't corrupt access to it for other programs.
Remember all APs and Cells count as long as it's NEW to YOUR account. It doesn't matter if somebody else already found it first.
Have you seen how many cells and APs lie around? One way on a 50 mile route, you can rack up something like 5000 points.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That means that the acummulation of money greatly decreases, as the AP's and Cells in your vicinity are no longer new?

Tec1106 said:
That means that the acummulation of money greatly decreases, as the AP's and Cells in your vicinity are no longer new?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will be a reduction BUT with new sites going live all the time and/or by taking a new route to work or to the shops or friends you can find new sites all the time.
Anytime you go somewhere new just make sure you have Navizon running and you will get points which will get you money - what have you got to lose?
Register here http://my.navizon.com/Webapps/UserAd...e=5D565A5C5A57 Install the software and start earning!
Cheers
Zippyioa

Does this use data? (GSM/3G/Edge/HSDPA)?

tyeo098 said:
Does this use data? (GSM/3G/Edge/HSDPA)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It uses your phones Wifi to find Access Points, it uses your phone to find cell towers and it uses your GPS to find where you are so it can map the access points and cell towers. As far I understand it none of these are chargeable or use data.
The position of access points and cell towers is stored in a file which is sent to Navizon using a data connection. By default this is set to sync once per day (at which point it would probably use your cells data connection) however you can disable the auto sync and choose to do it manually - at this point you could use Wifi or an Activesync connection to avoid data charges.
You can stop the auto sync as follows: Menu > Options > Data > Remove the tick from Auto sync daily
Cheers
Zippyioa

zippyioa said:
It uses your phones Wifi to find Access Points, it uses your phone to find cell towers and it uses your GPS to find where you are so it can map the access points and cell towers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I smell extreme battery drain

Tec1106 said:
I smell extreme battery drain
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not great on battery but when you are in the car you can use a car charger so its no problem really.
It is a bit of an issue when on foot or on a bike, but if you are not out for too long and you know you can top it back up again (either by car charger or power socket) again it is not too big an issue.
Hey, you could always use the money you earn to buy a spare battery
Cheers
Zippyioa

Car charger huh?
You obvoisly havent read the myraid of topics about car chargers bricking Kaisers

tyeo098 said:
Car charger huh?
You obvoisly havent read the myraid of topics about car chargers bricking Kaisers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen a few posts here and there but never had an issue myself.
I have an MDA Vario III from T-Mobile UK and use a car charger that I bought on eBay for my old XDA Orbit. Have been using this setup since the start of October with no problems so I guess I have never really been too bothered about this issue.
Thanks for bringing it up though.
Zippyioa

When I first heard about this program on Friday morning I was unsure that I would ever reach 10,000 points.
For those of you thinking the same, my hometown of Stratford-upon-Avon is not that built up an area. I have only travelled to and from work 10 miles away from home (using mostly rural roads with few buildings) and today into town and back (which is much more built up - lots of APs and cell towers).
I have already built up over 1200 points just on those two drives (25 miles) - that is without travelling around REALLY dense urban areas (big cities) with lots of buildings and also without walking around - just driving which misses lots of sites as it doesnt have time to log them!!
Cheers
Zippyioa

Man zippyioa, mention a good thing and get beaten up for it! To the naysayers, Navizon is a good deal, though yeah it doesn't rack up on your day-to-day commute. But if you do a lot of travel for business or whatever, it can become fairly luicrative. I only used the GPS option on my old 2125 (it didn't have wifi) and i still got 10,000 points pretty quick.

yep.. navizon is super .last week i accumulate 35000 points ( 60$ )
and total amount of money what i earn form navizon up today is 333.03 dollars

snooginsguy said:
Man zippyioa, mention a good thing and get beaten up for it! To the naysayers, Navizon is a good deal, though yeah it doesn't rack up on your day-to-day commute. But if you do a lot of travel for business or whatever, it can become fairly luicrative. I only used the GPS option on my old 2125 (it didn't have wifi) and i still got 10,000 points pretty quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completly get the beating part. For me, it feels like this guy is using this forum as a free commercial space for his or his employers product. I don't have not too much respect for that, as this is a Developers and users forum. Forgive me if I'm wrong, though
If I'm wrong, then I recommend not making your posts so cheezy and ad-like. When I read the text, it feels like I'm reading a marketing text for a new product, or so. That's why people turn naysayers

Hi Tec1106,
Thank you for the reality check - I hadn't realised how cheesy my first post sounded - point taken and amendments have now been made - hopefully it reads better now?
I guess years of working in sales have taken their toll on me as I didn't even realise I was doing it!
I work for a data cleansing company in Warwick UK and have no link to Navizon other than recently joining this scheme. I found this software through Paul at Modaco on Friday morning, saw the potential to earn money from it and wanted to share that chance to earn money with everyone here.
I have been using the XDA developers site for several years now to help me fix issues on my phone and I thought this would be a nice way to pay everyone back for the help they have given me - I also thought it was nice to earn something back from our expensive devices for a change.
Zippyioa

Zip I would agree on the cheesy part. I did however sign up using your code just to give it a try. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for the tip.

Dead horse beating: Kaiser vs Visiontac GPS Tomtom review

I went through a few Windows Smartphones before getting my first PPC (a Motorola MPx) just over a year ago. I already had a Bluetooth GPS receiver: Visiontac VGPS 700 I was trying to use it with my Motorola A1200, with no luck. However, with the MPx, and Tomtom, I was able to navigate via GPS with my own GPS system as it were.
That setup quickly (within weeks) gave way to a Cingular 8525 paired to the Visiontac GPS and away I went. I travel a lot for work. From So Cal to (this past year) Mass (Boston), NYC, Kentucky, Ohio, Tenn, Utah, Arizona, NM, and so on. I've used the 8525 in all kinds of areas, from urban areas like San Francisco, NYC, Philly, LA, Cincinnati, Chicago, and so on to areas in the relative middle of nowhere such as the So Cal desert, some areas of Kentucky, PA, and TN I've been to the last year (way, way off the nearest road). Since I've had it, I've put probably driven 20,000-30,000 miles with the Visiontac and Tomtom on. I've got a decent idea of how quick it takes to get a lock when cold, how long to get a lock after getting off a plane in another portion of the country, and how many satellites it shows in Tomtom. I've checked it against hundreds of roadside speed warning signs, and used it to calibrate the speedometers of three Jeeps now.
Then, a last week, I get the ATT Tilt (aka 8925, aka Kaiser). I move my 6gb micro SD across to it, fire up Tomtom (which I've always run off the card- it makes it easier when flashing every other week.) and go. After getting the com port dialed in (COM 4) and the baud rate (started at 4800 like many on here said, now on 57500) I've noticed that the internal GPS of the Kaiser just doesn't compare with the Visiontac bluetooth unit.
I went to San Fran this weekend (from Riverside- about 380 miles) and drove around town up there all weekend using the new phone for directions. I put about 1100 miles on the vehicle, and the navigation on the Kaiser. After losing signal in some areas of the city and having to drive until it found a satellite again and recalculated a route, where I didn't remember losing it before on the old setup, and noting that instead of 5 bars shown for signal as on the Hermes, I see a fluxuating 3-5 bars on the Kaiser.
So, this morning on the way in to work, I fire up both units, side by side to see what the deal is. I was wondering if the Kaiser really was lacking where the Visiontac/Hermes setup didn't seem to be.
Sure enough, the Kaiser running Tomtom 6 shows 3-5 (most often 4) bars on open freeway where the Hermes shows 5 bars. In the GPS configuration settings on Tomtom I find what I believe to be the answer. The Visiontac GPS tracks 12 satellites, the Kaiser, tracks only 8 most of the time, occasionally will track 12.
If that wasn't enough to cause me to lose direction and location, the Visiontac GPS appears more sensitive. The way Tomtom shows how good the signal is, is by the height of a particular satellite's bar on a bar graph. If you were to divide the bar into 5ths, the Visiontac seems to constantly be a fifth higher (20% more sensitive) than the Kaiser's built in GPS.
As for battery usage, I get about 3.5 hours of navigation (along with a few phone calls using the Jawbone headset) with the Kaiser before I get the "charge battery to prevent data loss" warning. On the Hermes, I get about 5.5 hours, with the Visiontac GPS able to run to almost 8 hours before needing a recharge. I expected a loss in battery power, due to the unit also having to power the GPS chip. I'm not sure I expected 2 hours, but I'm not completely bummed over it. My GPS usage is largely in a vehicle, or inside, to find out how far something is, so I can plug it in if needed.
I have also noticed that Tomtom is faster to start on the Kaiser. It is faster to allow you to type in addresses to navigate to, or points of interest to look up, and it calculates the route quicker. Key press response in general are quicker than on the Hermes. I expected a little quicker, thanks to the added RAM, but not this much- they both have 400 mhz chipsets. Granted, it still isn't instant, but it is an improvement.
Phone Specs at time of test said:
Hermes:
Running Starbase64's 6 3.62 WWE/HTC Rom for Hermes
Stock Battery
Kaiser:
Running ATT as-delivered ROM 1.57.502.2 (08/25/07)
Stock Battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall:
I just wish there was a way to up the sensitivity and/or the number of satellites that the Kaiser's GPS tracked. Compared to the Visiontac VGPS 700, it just can't compete in urban environs or in heavily wooded areas. It looses signal too easily. And, while I haven't tried some of the larger bridges around here yet, I am left wondering how it will do under them. Aside from that, it is great to not have to carry around two items to navigate, I have no more bluetooth receiver falling off my dash when going around a corner, and if I have my phone, I can find a place for dinner, or find my way out of an unfamiliar area with 90 percent confidence. The Kaiser is quicker than the Hermes for navigation, and overall is accurate, however it does leave a little to be desired. Am I happy I went to the Kaiser? Absolutely. Am I going to be selling my Hermes and Visiontac? (the original plan) Probably not for a while.
Hopefully this helps any who are later to the game than I am and/or still sitting on the fence trying to decide whether or not to jump in.

Would adding the external antenna help, for the areas whre it is a pain?
I don't know what it looks like or how painful that would be, but it may be an option.

I'm not completely happy with the GPS performance of my Tytn2. I had a MDA Vario (pre-pre-decessor of the Tytn2) and an external Adapt-700 bt unit. That one worked brilliantly. Even inside a Renault (with the coated windows) it worked flawless. Alway perfect reception. It's different with my Tytn2. In the morning, it takes some time to get a fix. I was used to 10-15 seconds before a fix was there. Now it is sometimes 1 minute.
But...I've notices something. The QuickGPS program makes it work a lot better. I knew that it should improve the performance, but the program is a bit misleading. It says that once you retrieved the data, it's valid for six days. So...you'd be in the clear for the rest of the week so to say. But I noticed that when you do a 'refresh' in the morning (every day), it works much, much better. I can even get a fix where it wouldn't before.
So, my tip would be to run the QuickGPS every day, or every time before a drive.

Over2land
Another question. How well is TomTom performing for you 'quality of mapwise'? I've read a few posts complaining about how old the maps are for Nagigator 6, and especially for the U.S. Also comments about 'no rumored upgrade' for Navigator 6.
I just purchased it, so I got it for whatever it's worth. But just curious about what you are seeing.

ewingr said:
Over2land
Another question. How well is TomTom performing for you 'quality of mapwise'? I've read a few posts complaining about how old the maps are for Nagigator 6, and especially for the U.S. Also comments about 'no rumored upgrade' for Navigator 6.
I just purchased it, so I got it for whatever it's worth. But just curious about what you are seeing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Missed the first question, sorry.
I have no idea if an external wired GPS antenna would help it. I would hazard to say it couldn't hurt. However, with the Hermes, there was evidence put forth that the external antenna (for the radio/GSM) fried the output circuits or some such, rendering it useless as a phone. I'd be worried about that happening here. Also, I've got like 5 vehicles on the road right now I rotate through, or try to rotate through, and a hard-mounted wired antenna wouldn't work for me.
In San Fran, there are issues with Tomtom not knowing where and when I can or can't turn a certain direction which really annoyed me. In So Cal, there are certain areas (understandable with the housing boom) that it just doesn't have on the maps. Areas that are 3 or 4 years old still aren't there. I've also noticed the same thing in NJ, intersections don't exist in the maps and so forth. I guess really there is something I've noted everywhere I've gone. Tomtom always gets me there, often with less fan trouble than if I was one my own, I find it more accurate than Mapquest also.
They really do need map updating.
And, they really need to look at updating quickest routes. Half the time in my local area, I don't follow Tomtom's freeway suggestions due to congestion, which is persistent congestion that should be noted. Areas like the 15/91 interchange, the 10 between the 5 and 405, the 10 where it drops south to hit the 60, and so on.
Then again, I've not used any other map/ turn by turn software so I have nothing to compare it against either.

ewingr said:
Would adding the external antenna help, for the areas whre it is a pain?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have an external GPS antenna in my car. I didn't have time to hook it up yet, but I'll check if it makes a difference. With my previous GPS receiver, which I kept in my glove compartiment (hence the antenna), it worked well. Not that it was really needed, but I just wanted optimal reception.

This is a great post. I am trying to buy a used kaiser now so I don't need a extra gps receiver. Seems I need to consider it again.

What ROM are you using on your Kaiser? There have been great differences in GPS performance between ROMs. From general advice AGPS should be disabled too for best performance.
Personally I'm very happy with mine, I'm working a lot with different GPS modules, and the performance is as good as the best ones I have. Sat count might be a bit lower (which gives fewer bars in TomTom), but the performance is really similar.
As already noted, an external antenna could help. The typical GPS antenna you'll find in a stand-alone module is a 25x25x4mm ceramic block weighing 30gr, no need to say that it's impossible to fit such a thing in a phone, so obviously the integrated antennas in those are a lot less sensitive.
Of course our uses are different and if you always use the combo in your car it doesn't matter much if you have 2 separate devices. I tend to rather use it walking, running, biking, flying so in lots of different places and with a separate receiver I would of course not have it with me most of the times I'd have needed it. Having the integrated one is great for me, even if there's a little tradeoff in performance.

I am using Romeos 4.2 and have never had a problem with my gps on mt TYTNII. I get a fix indoors which I cannot do with my Garmin Rino no external antenna required.

almost flawless

First I want to thank everyone for their posts and links, You mad my research a one stop shop
I have a hardware/systems integration background and love it. My dad rest His sole gave me a walkie talkie before I could talk. I have have been excited by the concept of field day in the ham radio world since. to go into a remote area and set up as many systems and frequencies as you can and make as many contacts around the world in 24 hrs excites me!! I have carried this over into my work and play. I have been working on a idea of a remote control/relay station with COTS (consumer off the shelf)items. Having a remote terminal that can send /receive email,sms,mms, make phone calls, have Internet access and control an APRS (automatic position reporting system) in a package that the power source is the limiting factor is a challenge. With the information you people have posted and linked I was successful in upgrading my tilt form stock to cooked and back with only one anomaly. That is a text message from my provider when I hard boot
(//SVAgICdTEAQACgUAfHKr3I09sJ+WqT9D4KqoJyZM00Mjja7TSe04ICxx9lyKNCHWQtqD/
dBRHA919CDLWo5HNFsm/Z6iS6j//VS)
On the flip the only time I get lock up is when I have a USB connection, Edge connection, a wifi connection bluetooth connection, and am trying to access a web page over 400k. I think this is a windows issue cuz I can still open the start menu, but soft boot is needed. In the same location the db environment increased from -93db to -73 and was getting 8 sat's with GPS (this is inside a local drinking establishment) .
I am down to 3 main pieces in the system
1) the Tilt
2) A dual band hand held xmitter (opened up to wide band xmitt and receive)with a built in tnc
3) A laptop
I can now sit on a given location and be connected to email, sms,mms,internet,phone,and 144 mhz to 448 mhz with one control center (a laptop, a tilt and a xmitter)
You Guys Rock!!!!!
ATT Tilt
R 1.27.14.09
G 22.45.88.07H
D 1.62.00.00
without bloatware and some tweaks
If anyone can point me to what the Text message from my provider is indicating Thanx
EZ
PS: Sorry this post is long I'm just Excited