Database Develop

Original HTC ROM may be better for some in USA

I have the HTC branded P3600 unlocked.
I tried out both LVSW's cooked ROM and the latest Dopod D810 ROM. Both are excelllent updates, but turned out not to be right for me. Thought I'd share in case this is useful to anyone else.
I am in an area of Los Angeles in the US which still does not yet have 3G. I also don't personally need the GPS feature. I am fine with an ordinary map and I need my battery life for phone and email. That is just my personal preference.
Anyway, in my case, I found three pitfalls with the new ROMs.
1. The phone got hotter and used more battery. I assume that the GPS was trying to do its thing even though I wasn't actually using it.
2. Signal can be sketchy at my home. The HTC P3600 has been the first PDA phone to give me a full strength signal here, on a par with a standard cell phone. But with the new ROMs my full bar strength fell in half. I assume this is to do with further optimizations for 3G which, unfortunately, currently give me no benefit. Anyhow, I got weaker GPRS/EDGE and weaker GSM.
3. The Dopod ROM (and LVSW cooked variant - which is a very nice job BTW) have significantly different ActiveSync/Direct Push settings. The Heartbeat Increments and other related settings are quite different. This was not good for my Exchange service and Push Mail. I started getting my mail at about 5 minute intervals, not right away. Some kind of timeout going on I guess. Of course, I was able to dip into the registry and make adjustments, but with my lower EDGE signal, things still were not working quite as well.
Bottom line: I went back to the Official HTC P3600 ROM (fortunately I had saved it before it had to be removed from the XDA-Dev FTP site. (HTC do not provide even the original ROM to customers at this time). There was no problem going back. So no harm, no foul.
I did save the HTC Task Manager application and added it back in. Nice addition, missing from the original HTC version. So it was definitely worth trying the new ROMs all in all.
Obviously, the issue here is that my local Network is lacking - the new ROMs are good. But the fact remained the original ROM gives me much better performance here, particularly battery life, signal strength and more reliable Direct Push.

Sorry for the unrelated post, but I needed some help after reading your post.
I am also in the Los Angeles area (OC) with T-Mobile.
I got an unlocked trinity about 2 months ago. It has worked very well, except I do not seem to be able to connect to Edge. Your post seemed to indicate that you have been able to connect to it.
Can you please tell me how I can make that happen?
Also, which GPS software would you recommend for Southern California, if I chose to enable the GPS hardware on my machine.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks

Hi Kewlphone! I think (hope!) you are actually getting Edge. For some reason the HTC P3600 simply displays the G symbol even when you are getting Edge. To be fair I think Edge is just an upgraded form of GPRS. Actually if you install the Dopod ROM it does give you the E symbol. There may well be a registry tweak to show an E, but I just don't know it.
There are no special settings needed. I just connect to wap.voicestream.com.
internet2.voicestream.com also works with my Internet plan, but I prefer to connect the first one as it also is the right one for picture messaging. Also you want to have T-Mobile Internet, not just the T-Mobile Web plan (formery t-zones) which is restricted to sites for phones and does not allow full Internet access or downloading attachments.
T-Mobile just tightened up their protocols dues to a cheat some people had been using to get full access out of the Web plan. This temporarily messed up my Internet access but tech support reprovisioned my account as I pay for the full Internet plan.
First off, I suggest you check your actual download speeds using
http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed?jisok=1
It is speed test specially for Mobile devices. If you get around 30 to 40 kbps ish that is standard GPRS. Edge should be around 100 to 120 ish in practice. Obviously it varies a lot by time of day, location etc.
There is also a registry tweak I found that may help download speed. You need a registry editor like Total Commander available from ghisler.com (You would want to download the 2.5 beta version for WM5. It is free).
The registry setting involved determines how much data the device will accept in a chunk.
HKLM\Comm\Tcpip\Parms\TcpWindowSize
If your device has this parameter set to less than 65536 change it to this amount. This helped me get consisitent Edge speeds. I am not aware of any harm that will be done be setting it higher still, other than you may need to set it back again if it doesn't work right!
Sorry, I have no experience with GPS software. The program people mention generally is Tom Tom. I believe this is the defacto choice for many people and it is made for many different devices. I am sure the company has a web site. If not I am sure it is available at places like mobileplanet.com.
Please bear in mind that we people using this site (XDA-dev) are enthusiasts who like to tweak and customize our phones. It is not our objective to help ourselves to free software, only to get the most out of the devices and the built-in software we have already paid for... I don't mean to suggest you are looking for any free downloads and you certainly did not imply that. I am just conscious there has just been an issue with Microsoft objecting to some of the downloads on this site so we need to be careful to keep things absolutely clearly legit. Tom Tom is a commericial product not included with the P3600 and will need to be purchased separately.
HTH

I am also in LA (West side.) Here is my experience:
I use LVSW's ROM and get 3G (Cingular.) Just tested a 1MB file download from the dslreports link above and got 642kbit/sec. There are some areas in town where it goes to E (for EDGE,) but at least in my case it's not too often (it went to E yesterday in the Custom's area at LAX, but to be honest, I was just happy to get signal there
The GPS works great. I don't really use it here, because I have built-in ones in my cars, but it is very handy when travelling.
I also don't use Cingular's push mail, but use my POP3 mail account, and have set the Trinity to check it every 15 minutes, which works fine for me.

642kbps?? WOW! Excuse me while a turn as green as the HTC theme with envy! That is intersting for me as I am also on LA's west side. BTW I concur about reception inside LAX customs area. Just being able to make a regular call from there is a feat! Hardly a concern that your data merely dropped to Edge speed!
I had been considering switching to Cingular to get 3G, although both where I live and where I work are both actually just off the official 3G map at the moment.... Switching would also just about double my bill, and put me back in a contract. So I am holding out till 3G coverage settles down a bit more. Looks like T-Mobile are finally going to 3G here, though that may still take many months...
Do Cingular even offer there own Push Mail? I was under the impression that their Xpress mail service retreives mail something like the T-Mobile equivilent (15 minutes intervals) I use Direct Push from my Exchange account so it requires only the Data connection, nothing else carrier specific.
Sorry, I am getting way off topic. This is not carrier comparision forum!
The relevant point is that it is good to know that the LVSW ROMs seems like the best for people in the USA too, assuming your carrier has 3G and especially if you use GPS. My situation sounds like the exception and will likely be transitory anyway.
BTW MacGuy2006, I think kewlphone might appreciate your advice on GPS software. Sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with it.
Thanks for the info I might join you on Cingular yet! I also think we may soon see even more ROM magic from our friend LVSW too!

Yeah, I am sort of satisfied with Cingular, and really do like 3G, which finally makes PDA Internet use a possibility for me (I can read the wires if I am stuck somewhere They refer to "push-mail," but I have not tried it, so I don't know if it's instantaneous or not.
As to GPS software, I use TomTom 6, which is generally fine and has a broad range of maps. I kind of like the design of Navigon 6 a bit better (http://www.navigon.com/site/us/en/mobile_navigation/pda/screenshots,) but have not seen it in action.
As an aside, yesterday I installed the 1.38.00.11 radio ROM lurking here, and my 3G speeds never exceeded the mid-400s. It may have been a fluke, but I went back to 1.35 and clocked in the mid-700

Thanks for sharing that info. Just to check, do you find you are able to up and downgrade just the Radio ROMs without a hard reset? TIA

I'm using the Dopod Rom with the 1.38 radio upgrade. As expected, the battery life is significantly reduced with the GPS enabled (using TomTom6), but overall I really like the fact that my phone can basically do anything now.
I think it might have more difficulty picking up signals now than it did with the original HTC rom. When I'm in my home office, I really don't get any signal at all now, which my plethora of computer equipment doesn't help, but the phone shows a solid four bars when I'm at work, and it connects to Edge very fast there too.
I tried both TomTom 6.02 and 6.03, and 6.03 is definitely better. It automatically knows to use the built-in GPS receiver (You don't have to select NMEA, COM 9), and it grabs the signal faster. Unfortunately I couldn't get the maps activated for 6.03, but they don't have any problem with 6.02, so I'm stuck with it.
I'm definitely looking forward to upgrading to WM6. Woot!
-John

flamingcrumb said:
Thanks for sharing that info. Just to check, do you find you are able to up and downgrade just the Radio ROMs without a hard reset? TIA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I backed up, reinstalled the LVSW ROM and restored

Hi flamingcrumb,
Thank you for your detailed response.
I have the full t-mo web plan, but have specifically taken access to internet3.voicestream.com becuase of VPN access needs.
I ran a speed test on my device and it shows 39 kbps. That tells me it is a regular GPRS connection. Do you know of any areas in the region where Edge is available? Sounds like westside may be one.
As far as GPS software goes, I was looking for recommendations based on availability and correctness of maps for southern cal. I had purchased and used Ostia in the past, however I did not like either the interface or stability.
Thanks

kewlphone said:
... As far as GPS software goes, I was looking for recommendations based on availability and correctness of maps for southern cal....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can compare maps here: http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=53419
AFAIK, TomTom uses Tele Atlas maps, which are fine (but I had one problem finding a a street in Orange County.) Navigon, I believe, uses Navteq maps, which I think of as more accurate (one of mine built-in navigation systems uses Navteq maps, and it has never lied to me

I appreciate the helpful posts on using GPS and the various software options. Good to know. Nothing I can add, you good people all know way more than I do, I don't see reduced battery life with GPS as a "fault" in any way - just a law of physics. For example, if I had my phone on for web browsing all the time at full brightness and used bluetooth plus wireless non-stop, the battery is going to run down faster. That's fair enough. I did notice there seemed to be a little bit of more drain with the GPS ROMs even with GPS inactive. I wonder if it ticks away in the background ready for use? It does certainly seem that enabling additional features might be reducing standard GSM sgnal strength. My feeling is that a little bit of internal radio interference might be a reasonable thing to expect. The Trinity has goodness how many radios? 4 bands of GSM, 3 Bands of w/CDMA, BlueTooth, WiFi, GPS... all in a device the size of deck of cards. Again, the laws of physics may simply apply.
The bottom line I get from this is there is unlikely to be a benefit in upgrading to a ROM which provides features I am not accessing. That doesn't mean the new ROMs are anything less than great, just not of benefit with my carrier in my location at this moment.
kewlphone, I definitely think you should be getting Edge speeds everywhere in the Los Angeles and Orange County areas, without even doing any tweaks. Bear in mind the standard HTC P3600 ROM always seems to just show the G, the key test is the speed not the symbol. But the speed you describe is not Edge. It will vary by time of day and location etc, so it is worth repeating the test quite a few times. You defintely should be seeing at least 100k when you have a full signal strength in urban areas, especially at off-peak hours... at least some of the time! I think you should call Customer Support and ask for a data specialist and talk it over with them. Perhaps they can reset your data account or help in some way. The positive spin I always go for to keep them on my side even though I have an unsupported phone is by explaining I am a loyal customer but the phones they offer don't meet my needs at present. So I am using my own phone because otherwise I would have to switch to another carrier and I don't want to "because you guys are so great" etc etc. In a few months there will be more T-Mobile phones available and I will be getting one. In the meantime I need to make things work so I can stay with T-Mobile. This is a semi-truth and but greatly overstates my loyalty, which is really only limited to the killer deal I get on a huge bucket of minutes (and is being serverely tested by their lagging in the 3G...) but it is a positive spin to give them a good reason to help me even though my phone is unsupported.
BTW I describe the Trinity as being most like the MDA but a generation or two on. If you get a decent data technician the chances are good they will know what you are talking about and will also be well away of T-Mo's limitations themselves. Chances are good they will do their best to help.
A place that might be helpful and more appropriate for discussing US carrier issues is howardforums dot com. They also have a Wiki which is quite useful. Obviously the XDA-Dev forum is for the tech stuff and tweaking to the the max! I think I have the same user name on howardforums so maybe we can find a good thread for trouble shooting our carrier stuff over there. Don't think I have actually posted yet but I will do as I ultimately need to decide whether to stick with T-Mo or jump to Cingy/ATT. If you register with the same name it will be easy for me spot you on their board. All the best. Please let me know about your progress

Sorry to bump this thread when it is probably only of interest to a small number of people - perhaps mostly in L.A. on T-Mo.
Quick update: I must confess that I caved in and have switched to Cingy/ATT. Much better signal strength where I live, even just on EDGE. I don't like their sky high rates or customer service all that much, plus their data plans are a riduculously complicated mess of choices... but they do have a lot of 3G and much better coverage in my location...oh well. Also feel like it will still surely take T-Mo a lot of time to deploy their own 3G... and I can always go back later!
Anyway, it now really made sense for me to upgrade my ROM. I have also been trying out GPS, just wih the free Google Maps for the monent as a little taster test! Pretty cool though
Another really big reason I gave up on the standard ROM was that I kept having the age old issue of my reminders not sounding and could cure only it with a hard reset each time. It has yet to be seen if the updated ROM helps or not. I realize the non-sounding reminders issue is a well known Windows Mobile problem, but it was happening every couple of weeks rather than once in a while. Anyone got any thoughts on this please???
The reminders issue is probably my biggest factor in picking a ROM and there is no obvious way of choosing between the HTC/LVSW/Dopod options other than trying them all. I cling to av ague hope someone might have already been through this one...
Oh, BTW I am using LVSW 1.24.0.0 with Radio 1.33.00.11
TIA

You only need the $19.99 unlimited media works plan to take advantage of 3G. Cingular will tell you that you must have the $49.99 pda plan but you do not, trust me I use my trinity with the media works plan and I use 3G perfect usually around 350kbs, for streaming video.

turcomora said:
You only need the $19.99 unlimited media works plan to take advantage of 3G. Cingular will tell you that you must have the $49.99 pda plan but you do not, trust me I use my trinity with the media works plan and I use 3G perfect usually around 350kbs, for streaming video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here...i'm using the unlimited $19.99 plan and i also use my phone for internet sharing with my laptop (e.g., phone as a modem).

Thanks good people. I had noticed that the MEdia Net plans seems to do the job (without restriction if the proxy is not used) but could not be sure if that was a lucky fluke or that is how it is...
Good to hear the definite facts from people with solid experience.... and I much appreciate it.
Coming in, I do really think the Cingy data plans are a confusing mess... I would imagine the average Joe or Jane walking into a phone store could feel overwhelmed. I think they should simplify the plans... but what do I know? (Not much, I admit!)
While we are talking Trinty and Cingular may I ask which ROM people feel is best for stabilty right now? I was having that prob with reminders not sounding... an old issue, but much worse than usual! Any guidance would be welcomed.
Best
P.S. turcomora, when you mention Streaming Video are you talking Cingy Video>...? I have been following the threads but still can't get that to work. Or are you refering to something else, like the Streaming Media application (which I have yet to figure out a use for!) Either way I would be most interested. Thanks again and B4N

Can you track your speed using GPS?

I was just wondering if there are any apps out there that tell you how fast you're travelling, using your GPS.
I was just watching myself zoom across fields on google maps using GPS, as I am currently im a train.
Also, has anyone else noticed this terrible lag when typing, especially IE or Opera? :S
Thanks,
Sebastian

if you have virtualGPSce installed, you can click on the pannel tab and it has four gauges on of witch is speed.
I've never used it, but assume it works.
I've attatched the cab file in case you don't have it

Tracking Speed with GPS software
Yes you can track your speed using GPS. I am using Garmin Mobile XT North America Software w/ 2GB microSD with miniSD & SD adapters for Smartphone. I ordered it about two weeks ago and have been playing around with it for the last week or so. It has turn by turn spoken directions and if you have a gps enabled phone with internet access it will download traffic information before it calculates your route, awesome software so far. Still Trying to figure out how to change the arrow to a vehicle though. I have mine still on the 2gig sd card it came with. When your route is set and you hit go the map is shown and the speed is posted on the botom left and your arrival time on the bottom right. Click speed the tab on the bottom left and it give you trip information such as distance and max speed, etc. Hope this helps. The links for the two places I saw the product are below, got mine in about 3 days from Buygpsnow.com, after they shipped. It is still showing that they are instock.
http://www.buygpsnow.com/Product/Garmin-Mobile-XT-MicroSDMiniSD-Software-Only-for-North-America__930.aspx
http://www.semsons.com/gamoxtforsmn.html
Also forgot to mention if your Smartphone/PDA has bluetooth but does not have gps you can buy a bluetooth gps reciever and use the Garmin mobile XT Program.

Whats wrong with TOMTOM, it displays speed fine.
Preferences-> page 4 of 5-> status Bar preference -> Speed CHECK IT!!!
It comes free with htc kaiser :]

gpstuner is the best.... as the altitude graph, there's one for the speed, it has also average speed, max & min speed and more and more and more
http://www.gpstuner.com/screens.htm
...and the v 5.2 has the online downloading of terraserver & googlemaps

telmap works fine as well.

ekw said:
Whats wrong with TOMTOM, it displays speed fine.
Preferences-> page 4 of 5-> status Bar preference -> Speed CHECK IT!!!
It comes free with htc kaiser :]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not all
mine didnt.

kabirjohnson said:
telmap works fine as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only it wasn't so overpriced... I was very unimpressed.

SkizZO said:
gpstuner is the best.... as the altitude graph, there's one for the speed, it has also average speed, max & min speed and more and more and more
http://www.gpstuner.com/screens.htm
...and the v 5.2 has the online downloading of terraserver & googlemaps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's been a while since I used GPSTuner, but I remember that I really liked the way it can display large gauges for speed, direction, etc. If you want to know your speed while street driving, I know TomTom will display such. If you just want an easy to read display with your speed, etc. GPSTuner works great.

SkizZO said:
gpstuner is the best.... as the altitude graph, there's one for the speed, it has also average speed, max & min speed and more and more and more
http://www.gpstuner.com/screens.htm
...and the v 5.2 has the online downloading of terraserver & googlemaps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive got gpstuner 5.2 and have to admit it is a good off road gps app. ive managed to get it to show google maps and goolge satalite but i cant get it to work with the terraserver at all. I want topographic maps for off road but they wont download through gps tuner, I just get unable to download when i try

Gamin, Navigon, Live Search, TomTom, Ext Antennae
Ive tried Live Search, TeleNav, TomTom, Navigon and now Garmin Moble XT for the last 3 weeks.
Live search is awesome, its free, but there is no voice anything so it's hard to use safely
TeleNav..about 10 bucks a month, slow due to it's server based programs, good program when it works..after 3 days straight of server connection problems I canceled that membership. I used Live Search as a back up
TomTom's trail teaser was not useable for me
Navigon is awesome and in my opion the best in detail, performance, screen layouts, POI's etc..etc BUT big bucks and a memory hog, the North America maps are 1.6 gigs alone so it needed a dedicated SD Micro so that wasnt gonna work for me. Costs about $300 for the program and maps, which are sold seperately...still it worked the best and has the most sophisticated displays of all types of GPS info.
Garmin Moble XT cost me $99 bucks and works just fine for me. I DOES NOT SAY " turn left on Main St" but rather gives turn warnings like " turn left in .2 miles " etc then can give a tone before saying "turn Left"...programmable for the tone part. There is a nice large text display of the street name and turn info so just a glance at the street can confirm your turns with the voice command of "turn left". Also the maps are nice and clear. Cant back up the SD card so if you damage or loose it your outta 99 bucks.
All of them including the free Microsoft Live Search are capable of traffic, gas and other real time info with a data connection. ATT's Media Net worked and works just fine with all of them.
I also bought the external HTC GPS antennae which can and will increase the performance and reception in less than perfect signal strength areas...I highly recommend it.
That's my overpriced 2 cents !

Gamin, Navigon, Live Search, TeleNav, TomTom, Ext Antennae
Ive tried Live Search, TeleNav, TomTom, Navigon and now Garmin Moble XT for the last 3 weeks. I have the Kaiser and AT&T service.
Live search is awesome, its free, but there is no voice anything so it's hard to use safely. It uses tone prompts only. Still I have it for a backup and it works pretty darn well.
TeleNav..about 10 bucks a month, slow due to it's server based programs, good program when it works..after 3 days straight of server connection problems I canceled that membership. I used Live Search as a back up during those 3 days. To many times I missed turns because of the lag in info from the server also...no maps are stored permanently in memory. Not worht the money if I cant rely on it to a higher degree. Also the volume at it highest level is not so great.
TomTom's trail teaser was not useable for me since it had very little in the way of maps and I travel all of New England.
Navigon is awesome and in my opion the best in detail, performance, screen layouts, mapping, POI's etc..etc BUT big bucks and a memory hog, the North America maps are 1.6 gigs alone so it needed a dedicated SD Micro so that wasnt gonna work for me. Costs about $300 for the program and maps, which are sold seperately...still it worked the best and has the most sophisticated displays of all types of GPS info.
Garmin Moble XT cost me $99 bucks and works just fine for me. IT DOES NOT SAY " turn left on Main St" but rather gives turn warnings like " turn left in .2 miles " etc then can give a tone before saying "turn Left" at the turn...programmable for the tone part and also Turn Detail. There is a nice large text display of the street name and turn info so just a glance at the street can confirm your turns with the voice command of "turn left". Also the maps are nice and clear and the turn instructions are easy to see and hear..good volume on the phones not so good speaker. Cant back up the SD card so if you damage or loose it your outta 99 bucks.
All of them including the free Microsoft Live Search are capable of traffic, gas and other real time info with a data connection. ATT's Media Net worked and works just fine with all of them.
I also bought the external HTC GPS antennae ($40 inc S&H) which can and will increase the performance and reception in less than perfect signal strength areas...I highly recommend it. If you use a cradle like I do the antennae plug could be an issue. Mine makes my phone sit a little funny in the cradle. I use a Gomadic Cradle. The battery dies quick using GPS so it needs to be on external power. Mines on GPS about 4-7hrs daily and without the external power a fully charged stock battery will only last a few hours at best.
That's my overpriced 2 cents !

whats with the double post? gpstuner is good : D

I dont think the poster knew about editing their post so did it all over

A simple program is Vitesse Limite - http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-vitesse-limite-v4-2.html
C

http://www.turboirc.com/ppc/
That's my favorite. It's simple to use and free. Plus it can update itself online.

GPS Issue: Loss of satellites -> Softreset necessary?

Hi!
I encountered a strange GPS behaviour and wanted to share this with you / maybe someone has an idea bout this one:
On a businessjourney i wanted to log my way with my kaiser, and everything went fine so far. But after several hunderts of kilometres, kaiser lost more and more satellites till only 1 was left and the values were unuseable (phantasy-koordinates, speed and altitude too).
I am 100% sure that it was not a problem with our jet or any kind of shielding in it - because after a softreset it could lock again on 8 to 12 satellites. I could approve this strange loss of statellites on longer flights and car etappes (lets say 500km+) now several times.
Any idea what could be the reason?

Did the airline crew know you were using a gps device?

unwired4 said:
Did the airline crew know you were using a gps device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares, GPS device is just a receiver, they use several of them in cockpit. Even GSM mobile phone intereference is exaggerated...

Well, since it was our own jet and pilot i guess that its ok
But back to the issue: A friend of mine could acknowledge that he has the same problem when traveling over a certain distance by car.
Is it possible, that this has something to do with QuickGPS where the receiver calculates extimated postitions of the satellites (and those triangulations will be false when moving too far)? Is QuickGPS postition-dependend?
Any ideas highly appreciated...

licht77 said:
Well, since it was our own jet and pilot i guess that its ok
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good answer
It could be, but quickgps only provides a pre-download of the ephemeris data so that the GPS unit does not have to download it from the satellites. If it does not have the quickgps data, it could download it from the sats (thats why a normal lock takes so long), so I would guess not, unless maybe download of new data from sats is turned off if quickgps is turned on.
I see no option to specify location in quickgps but then again it could look at the handset's country code or something. Surely though it is kilobytes in size at max so downloading the whole world's data via GSM/3G would be no biggie.
On a side note, I get the same issue on my Kaiser even if I stay local sometimes. I *think* it may be getting stuck on A-GPS (Using cell phone masts to get a rough fix) - maybe try and disable A-GPS as it would be no use in a jet?

I have experienced the same thing once - and that was after using the Kaiser in a jet for only a few minutes. Once I landed, I started TomTom and was placed over 700 miles from my actual position. A soft rest cured it; I was a bit worried that the high speeds of a jet might have confused/fried my GPS, but all was fine after a soft reset.

You may see what I mean here: xxx (username and password: test): Right above Toledo / Madrid the GPS readings go crazy... :-(

Could this be the mythical 'Barcelona Triangle' ?

Interesting, you might try posting this at GPSpassion.com forum. They are the experts in GPS. It's odd that it would loose sats as the view of the sky couldn't be much better and you'd think that it would be able to keep up things, even at jet speeds the number of visible satellites wouldn't change. I would try it with GPS ON and Phone radio OFF as this might rule out any cell tower issues.

RemE said:
Interesting, you might try posting this at GPSpassion.com forum. They are the experts in GPS. It's odd that it would loose sats as the view of the sky couldn't be much better and you'd think that it would be able to keep up things, even at jet speeds the number of visible satellites wouldn't change. I would try it with GPS ON and Phone radio OFF as this might rule out any cell tower issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! I tried it with GSM off - with no improvement. It seems that this is some kind of bug in the GPS-receiver?
If you have an user in that forum - feel free to post this issue!
Thx, Licht

I do experience this problem too. I was thinking it is the problem of the chip, has anyone tried the external antenna and does the problem still persist?

ZorMi said:
Who cares, GPS device is just a receiver, they use several of them in cockpit. Even GSM mobile phone intereference is exaggerated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might be exaggerated... but considering how much interference a normal GSM signal has with household electronics (and yes, commercial jetliners are heavily shielded)... it's still kind of scary.
I actually discovered I left my phone on in my bag on a Frontier Airlines flight when the GSM modem started up at around 15,000 feet and the in-seat screen in front of me started flickering and I got that cool 'ch-ch-ch-ch' noise in my headphones.
Whoops.
It's probably safe to have the GPS on, but you really should turn off the radio.. there's no telling what wiring is running next to/under your seat, and there might just be an antenna above your head that you don't know about. It's just not worth the risk (plus, if you get caught.. well.. it's a federal offense).
If you just ask, some pilots will let you turn your GPS unit on in the plane (the flight attendants will ask him/her)... Delta Airlines doesn't seem to have any problem with this, while United and American do.

I think you'll find the answer to this thread is to do with the travelling speed and height.
Dedicated flight GPS units have a much faster baud rate for data transfer and the unit itself has virtually no other background tasks to take care of.
The 'Kaiser' GPS is primarily designed as a 'walkabout' unit and can just cope with vehicle speeds. If the data shows a marked change in position (due to say travelling at a few hundred kph) then the GPS firmware believes it has an erroneous sat lock and tries to re-aquire causing the confused output.
Also, Ephemeris data is incorrect for ionospheric distortion when you are at above 25,000 thousand feet so if it tries to use QuickGPS it will actually lengthen the acquisition time.
Try it next time with both A-GPS and QuickGPS off (QuickGPS auto disables if data is out of date so just disable downloads) and note what speed/height you are when is goes crazy.

As far as i know, there is no profen evidence that one single plane was downed by a gsm signal. Additionally, i have seen Boeings where all TFT Flatscreens started heavy flickering when the intercom was running - so dont mix up important avionic board systems with unimportant, unshielded secondary systems Here in europe all commercial planes have excellent shielding standards - and there are several commerical and private planetypes around which already come up with internal gsm-repeaters and satellite connections to the gsm-groundstations (the reasons for low usage are missing business models and - i guess annoyance). And - as i said - it was our own jet and pilot, and so its me who makes the rules in there :-D
So much for offtopic.
But I really would like to know what causes this "satellite loss" and "mis-positioning" problems... - this probably makes some killerapplications impossible
Does anybody know if a-gps is geographically influenced? Anybody has further informations about how our Kaisers keep the fix on the satellites?

Farsquidge said:
I think you'll find the answer to this thread is to do with the travelling speed and height.
Dedicated flight GPS units have a much faster baud rate for data transfer and the unit itself has virtually no other background tasks to take care of.
The 'Kaiser' GPS is primarily designed as a 'walkabout' unit and can just cope with vehicle speeds. If the data shows a marked change in position (due to say travelling at a few hundred kph) then the GPS firmware believes it has an erroneous sat lock and tries to re-aquire causing the confused output.
Also, Ephemeris data is incorrect for ionospheric distortion when you are at above 25,000 thousand feet so if it tries to use QuickGPS it will actually lengthen the acquisition time.
Try it next time with both A-GPS and QuickGPS off (QuickGPS auto disables if data is out of date so just disable downloads) and note what speed/height you are when is goes crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx for your informations - your ideas sound plausible! But on the flight i posted before, u can see that we were travelling about 2.5 hours at 10.000 metres and 800 km/h before everything went crazy within 60 seconds (Placemark 273 is plausible, 275 insane)... but i turned GSM off to save battery... so a-gps and quick-gps should have been off too (correct me if i am wrong)...?

licht77 said:
Thx for your informations - your ideas sound plausible! But on the flight i posted before, u can see that we were travelling about 2.5 hours at 10.000 metres and 800 km/h before everything went crazy within 60 seconds (Placemark 273 is plausible, 275 insane)... but i turned GSM off to save battery... so a-gps and quick-gps should have been off too (correct me if i am wrong)...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A-GPS would be disabled but QuickGPS would still be active as it is just a downloaded info table.
It would only need loss of signal for a few seconds, say your reception was detuned by a flight manouver or you moved the location of the unit within the plane (signal strength is poor within an aircraft body without external antenna) to cause it to get confused and at speed it takes ages for a lock. You can see a big difference just starting the GPS standing still against starting it in a moving car.

Consumer GPS devices misread at high speeds and altitudes. Government regulations keep them from functioning to prohibit their use in the construction of ICBM's since most devices use a version of a generic GPS chip. Think I'm nuts? Google it.

xconradx said:
Consumer GPS devices misread at high speeds and altitudes. Government regulations keep them from functioning to prohibit their use in the construction of ICBM's since most devices use a version of a generic GPS chip. Think I'm nuts? Google it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, I don't think you are nuts! You are perfectly correct!
There are 3 types, consumer, commercial and military. (four if you count the US who contol the network and have the best).

Farsquidge said:
A-GPS would be disabled but QuickGPS would still be active as it is just a downloaded info table.
It would only need loss of signal for a few seconds, say your reception was detuned by a flight manouver or you moved the location of the unit within the plane (signal strength is poor within an aircraft body without external antenna) to cause it to get confused and at speed it takes ages for a lock. You can see a big difference just starting the GPS standing still against starting it in a moving car.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I guess i will give this a try as i found out how to deactivate QuickGPS
@xconradx: No youre not nuts - i can confirm that there are regulations (thats why we are gonna send up Gallileo *g*) - but i can hardly believe that this was the bugger: The readings were accurate (too accurate to prevent abuse) for 2:45min - and then the readings were just insane.
I hope we can find a workaround...

Haha, I'm glad people dont think I'm a nutjob... I've tried to explain the regulated GPS to people before and was called "paranoid, crazy", whatever....
Thats weird that it read so well for a period. I just know that basics!

GPS software with free web traffic updates

Ok, I may be asking stupid things here, but I don't get the whole GPS traffic updates problem...
Ok, so we have programs like Microsoft Live Search and Google Maps for Mobile that get all the traffic info they need from the web. There's 2 problems though - they don't guide you (step by step directions) and they don't calculate the route based on the traffic. They just show the traffic info.
What I don't get is why can't I find GPS software that will do EXACTLY the same thing as those two, but also give you guidance and calculate routes based on traffic info?
Yes, there's iGo and TomTom that need TMC hardware/subscription/whatever. And yes, there's Garmin XT that gets traffic info from the web, but it only works with external Garmin GPS receivers.
Is there no GPS software with traffic updates from the web that would work on phones like Kaiser with built-in GPS? Or am I missing it?
Another idea would be a piece of software that would get the traffic tables from the web (for free), and then emulate a TMC antenna/whatever on a certain COM port. Is that something that's impossible to make?

tomtom works and gives you traffic updates. works and is free on my friends tytn II. doesnt work on my tilt. /shrug

So TomTom gets the traffic updates from the web?
And it doesn't work on US WM6?

kireol said:
tomtom works and gives you traffic updates. works and is free on my friends tytn II. doesnt work on my tilt. /shrug
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have TomTom 6 installed on my Tilt and it works great. Also, traffic is free to US users, although they don't advertise it. I called them a while back because I was planning a long roadtrip and I wanted traffic, but I could not find on the website where US users could buy it. I called the 800 number and they gave me a free subscription, and said when it expires to call back and ask for another. It will calculate the route, then check the traffic and ask if you want to re-route around it. It also gives audible and visual alerts when new incidents are detected on your route, plus many times there is detailed info available where you can see exactly how far the backup is, and how long the estimated wait is. Its really nice.
-Jay

Jay2TheRescue said:
I have TomTom 6 installed on my Tilt and it works great. Also, traffic is free to US users, although they don't advertise it. I called them a while back because I was planning a long roadtrip and I wanted traffic, but I could not find on the website where US users could buy it. I called the 800 number and they gave me a free subscription, and said when it expires to call back and ask for another. It will calculate the route, then check the traffic and ask if you want to re-route around it. It also gives audible and visual alerts when new incidents are detected on your route, plus many times there is detailed info available where you can see exactly how far the backup is, and how long the estimated wait is. Its really nice.
-Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh wow, that's really nice. Is it a public download or subscription type of thing? I want to try it out

DarkDvr said:
Oh wow, that's really nice. Is it a public download or subscription type of thing? I want to try it out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to buy the TomTom software. They ordinarily have traffic as a subscription based service, on their website I think its like 30 euros a year. Well worth it in my opinion, but I'm unable to pay in euros... Anyway if you have the TomTom software working you can activate traffic for free by calling if you are in the US.
-Jay

I'm using AT&T's TelNav right now (free for the first month) and it's pretty good so far but I'm thinking TomTom might be a better solution. You just order the CD and then load it all to a miniSD card right?
Also.... Jay.... This is a little off topic but where did you get the mount for your phone (shown in your usericon)?

FlyRyan said:
I'm using AT&T's TelNav right now (free for the first month) and it's pretty good so far but I'm thinking TomTom might be a better solution. You just order the CD and then load it all to a miniSD card right?
Also.... Jay.... This is a little off topic but where did you get the mount for your phone (shown in your usericon)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's a link to a thread with all the details on my car mount, with large pics: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1880032#post1880032
Yes, you install the software on your storage card. I have a 4gb card and I have the entire north american continent map on it. I can go anywhere in the US & Canada without switching maps. At this point with the pirces on the 8gb cards coming down I would buy an 8 gb card, but it will support up to 32 gb I believe. I bought the mount from www.proclipusa.com, and although the total package was just over $100, its well worth it.
-Jay

DarkDvr said:
Ok, I may be asking stupid things here, but I don't get the whole GPS traffic updates problem...
Ok, so we have programs like Microsoft Live Search and Google Maps for Mobile that get all the traffic info they need from the web.
[snip]
Yes, there's iGo and TomTom that need TMC hardware/subscription/whatever. And yes, there's Garmin XT that gets traffic info from the web, but it only works with external Garmin GPS receivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither Windows Live or Google Maps are GPS software. They're web apps with extended functionality that support GPS.
Real GPS software have big map packs and the only thing it needs is a GPS signal.
As for GMXT, they've supported internal GPS since October 2007, and that's what I've been using; free traffic and I guess that's forced TomTom to do the same. You can find threads on how to unlock GMXT off their puny microSD cards.

NuShrike said:
Neither Windows Live or Google Maps are GPS software. They're web apps with extended functionality that support GPS.
Real GPS software have big map packs and the only thing it needs is a GPS signal.
As for GMXT, they've supported internal GPS since October 2007, and that's what I've been using; free traffic and I guess that's forced TomTom to do the same. You can find threads on how to unlock GMXT off their puny microSD cards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's good info, thanks. I'll look into it.
However, my question remains the same.. Are there some limitations that prohibit the creation of an emulator software that would get traffic updates from the web and act as TMC device for GPS software like iGo?

Those traffic updates only work when you're on the freeway, not on city streets. I use TomTom in conjunction with Google Maps. Google Maps at least tells you if the traffic jam is less than 25mph(red) or 26-50mph(yellow). It's pretty accurate. TomTom only has a little car symbel that followed with little dots that represent traffic jam. With google maps, you can zoom out and see the big picture with traffic info. It has saved me hours by allowing me to choose which freeway to take with less traffic jam miles before the jam starts. If all of the sudden I got stuck in traffic jam before google maps updates the traffic info, I use sigalert.com (in LA area) with Opera Mobile to tell me what caused the traffic jam and what time it started. It gives great details about the trafffic jam. It reports how many cars are involved, what kind of cars are involved, which lanes are affected, CHP, ambulance, fire department arrival time, injuries reports.
You may think well I dont want to use 3 programs just to tell me about a traffic jam. If you're in a traffic jam going 0mph, you have time to use your Tilt.

cproaudio said:
Those traffic updates only work when you're on the freeway, not on city streets. I use TomTom in conjunction with Google Maps. Google Maps at least tells you if the traffic jam is less than 25mph(red) or 26-50mph(yellow). It's pretty accurate. TomTom only has a little car symbel that followed with little dots that represent traffic jam. With google maps, you can zoom out and see the big picture with traffic info. It has saved me hours by allowing me to choose which freeway to take with less traffic jam miles before the jam starts. If all of the sudden I got stuck in traffic jam before google maps updates the traffic info, I use sigalert.com (in LA area) with Opera Mobile to tell me what caused the traffic jam and what time it started. It gives great details about the trafffic jam. It reports how many cars are involved, what kind of cars are involved, which lanes are affected, CHP, ambulance, fire department arrival time, injuries reports.
You may think well I dont want to use 3 programs just to tell me about a traffic jam. If you're in a traffic jam going 0mph, you have time to use your Tilt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but if you tap the right edge of the screen you can view the details of the traffic jam. Often when you view the details it will say "Backup 2,000 yards Estimated time: 3 minutes" Then you can choose to reroute around it, or just go through. TomTom also has different icons that show you what the incident is. Its pretty obvious usually when you see them. The man w/ the shovel is road construction. A lane with an X in it means that the lane is closed ahead. A car on its side is an auto accident. An icon of several cars backed up is heavy traffic.
-Jay

I have a questions. I have tomtom 6 on my tilt. I got it from school that a profesor by mistake left the software open to public. I took it and installed it. The only thing that i needed was the activation key. I got that now and works fine. I only loaded California and Nevada for now. I had the traffic trial only for 30 days. I read that it is free to U.S. customers. Can I call them and have it activated on mine. Agian, I found the program and my worry is that if I call, would I be asked personal information? And if I give it out, by my devvice code, can they block me from using the buddies feature and weather? Thanks.

banditione said:
I have a questions. I have tomtom 6 on my tilt. I got it from school that a profesor by mistake left the software open to public. I took it and installed it. The only thing that i needed was the activation key. I got that now and works fine. I only loaded California and Nevada for now. I had the traffic trial only for 30 days. I read that it is free to U.S. customers. Can I call them and have it activated on mine. Agian, I found the program and my worry is that if I call, would I be asked personal information? And if I give it out, by my devvice code, can they block me from using the buddies feature and weather? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Each TomTom install disk can only be used to install on 2 devices, then they lock it out and you have to call to activate the third. I had TomTom 6 installed on my old iPAQ hw6515. When I bought my Tilt I installed it there with no problems. 30 days later I had an issue with the device that wasn't fully resolved, and rather than dealing with a warranty exchange refurb in another 2 months I just exchanged it for a new one in the store. It took me almost a week to get my TomTom registration moved to the third device. I'm suprised you got TomTom working at all if its a pirated copy.
Anyway, to activate your traffic subscription they will need a valid email address, so in a sense they will know who you are...
-Jay

Route 66 has free traffic updates in the UK via internet

Jay2TheRescue said:
Each TomTom install disk can only be used to install on 2 devices, then they lock it out and you have to call to activate the third. I had TomTom 6 installed on my old iPAQ hw6515. When I bought my Tilt I installed it there with no problems. 30 days later I had an issue with the device that wasn't fully resolved, and rather than dealing with a warranty exchange refurb in another 2 months I just exchanged it for a new one in the store. It took me almost a week to get my TomTom registration moved to the third device. I'm suprised you got TomTom working at all if its a pirated copy.
Anyway, to activate your traffic subscription they will need a valid email address, so in a sense they will know who you are...
-Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. Then I had the last chance to use it. Well I dont know if I was the first or second to use it because in order for me to recieved traffic reports, I had to create a username and password along with my email. Then I loged in my information through my phone and it worked. I only had traffic reports valid for 30 days. Now it has expired. TomTom web site has my information now and I guess I should of been the first one to use the software because then my information would of conflicted with the first installation of the cd I found. So my question is now, can I call that 800 number and ask them to activate traffic on my phone. I am worried that they may block me out for good or something. Though my gps would still work. What information do they ask apart from my email? Is it ok to call? I do not have a cd key for the cd. I just poped it on my drive and boom, it worked on my phone. Please help. Thanks.

banditione said:
Wow. Then I had the last chance to use it. Well I dont know if I was the first or second to use it because in order for me to recieved traffic reports, I had to create a username and password along with my email. Then I loged in my information through my phone and it worked. I only had traffic reports valid for 30 days. Now it has expired. TomTom web site has my information now and I guess I should of been the first one to use the software because then my information would of conflicted with the first installation of the cd I found. So my question is now, can I call that 800 number and ask them to activate traffic on my phone. I am worried that they may block me out for good or something. Though my gps would still work. What information do they ask apart from my email? Is it ok to call? I do not have a cd key for the cd. I just poped it on my drive and boom, it worked on my phone. Please help. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can anyone help please.

anyone cmon help!

Anyone please help.

sure i'll help, i'll hack into tomtom's server and give you access to traffic. all i need is your username, password, date of birth, mother's maiden name, and your social security number

Tilt & GPS and Internet

Within the next 2 or 3 weeks. I'm planing on getting a Tilt. For all of you already having one I need some info. I've never had a GPS device or Cell phone with that capability so please inform me.
I'm really not playing on using the GPS feature maybe just to play around with and see how it works.
Do I need to have a GPS plan on my account to use this feature, I'm not going to need directions, I just want it to show my location on a map?
Am I correct thinking if I don't use Navagation (Get Directions) feature then its only using my Internet connection?
Can I use any GPS software on the phone?
I'm just trying to make sure I wont be charge for something that I really don't need, just want to try out to locating function here and there. I think it would be fun to have.

GPS is free for using...having a program that usings GPS might not be free..such as tomtom garmin etc...there are going to be free programs such as googlemaps (correct me if i'm wrong)...but using the GPS is completely free and has nothing to do with the cellular provider.

GPS is free
Zaiaku said:
Within the next 2 or 3 weeks. I'm planing on getting a Tilt. For all of you already having one I need some info. I've never had a GPS device or Cell phone with that capability so please inform me.
I'm really not playing on using the GPS feature maybe just to play around with and see how it works.
Do I need to have a GPS plan on my account to use this feature, I'm not going to need directions, I just want it to show my location on a map?
Am I correct thinking if I don't use Navagation (Get Directions) feature then its only using my Internet connection?
Can I use any GPS software on the phone?
I'm just trying to make sure I wont be charge for something that I really don't need, just want to try out to locating function here and there. I think it would be fun to have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are pretty much correct.
To use "GPS" to connect to satellites to determine your location does not cost anything.
Applications like Google Maps and MS Live Search can determine your location and give you directions at no cost. They use your data connetion to download maps.
Other applications like Telenav (which you will have a link to download it on your Tilt) charge for downloading directions.
And other apps use pre-installed maps and do not require a data connection. These come in handy where reception is bad.

This is my first phone with these kinds of features, options and capabilities too Before this Kaiser..aka Tilt I had a Razor V3
You can disable your DATA connection through Comm Manager so it will never access or try to access your provider ( mines ATT/Media.Net)
I suggest doing that otherwise you'll find the charges on your bill and not even know you were using the service. Also you can block DATA through your provider and plan.
I did the 1 month free trail with telenav..it was ok but had problems and is slow since it's all server based ( data connection!!). Plus it will cost you about $10 per month..unless you sign up for years then it goes down to around $5 per month...that was not " attractive" to me
I now use and have used for 4 months Garmin XT..its pretty cool and I drive alot ( 3k miles per month ).
If you dont have DATA you cant cash in on gas prices either ( as well as all the Online Xtras )..and who doesn't think of those prices these days. Also no data means noTraffic unless you use a seperate FM reciever of some sort..
Garmin's not perfect, none of em are, but it's pretty darn accurate
Now if you wanna get some real cool media..like free cable TV on your phone that works very good when you have a data connection...lets talk about my Slingbox

This is my first phone with these kinds of features, options and capabilities too Before this Kaiser..aka Tilt I had a Razor V3
You can disable your DATA connection through Comm Manager so it will never access or try to access your provider ( mines ATT/Media.Net)
I suggest doing that otherwise you'll find the charges on your bill and not even know you were using the service. Also you can block DATA through your provider and plan.
I did the 1 month free trail with telenav..it was ok but had problems and is slow since it's all server based ( you need a data connection!!). Plus it will cost you about $10 per month..unless you sign up for years then it goes down to around $5 per month...that was not " attractive" to me
I now use and have used for 4 months Garmin XT..its pretty cool and I drive alot ( 3k miles per month ). You dont need a Data connection BUT like all of em it's much bettr if you have one
If you dont have DATA you cant cash in on gas prices either ( as well as all the Online Xtras )..and who doesn't think of those prices these days. Also no data means noTraffic unless you use a seperate FM reciever of some sort..
Garmin's not perfect, none of em are, but it's pretty darn accurate It hasn't let me down yet. It has voice but does not say the street name in directions...I dont find that to be a problem. The map and route are clear and once you get use to it you should be fine without street names
Now if you wanna get some real cool media..like free cable TV on your phone that works very good when you have a data connection...lets talk about my Slingbox

I really don't need the GPS feature but would like to be able to try it out, mess with the trakking on it from a few projects I've seen. I rarely try some place to an area I've never been before so its not like I need the directions thing. The first thing I'll do is proably remove telenav from the phone just to make sure I don't accidently use it.
So aslong as I remove telenav, and I have my unlimited internet on my phone I should be all good.

Redundancy Detected...
And with a mighty
[Thwomp]
The Colossal Hammer of Closure
ends the life of yet another redundant thread...​