Database Develop

what is the reasonable time for gps fix?

as per subject what is the reasonable time for gps fix? can installed applications effect gps fix? what about clouds? could it be hard to get fix in cloudy whether?

Don't know whats normal but sitting in my house with TT I get 3-4 bars in about 5 seconds once I open TT. This is on the kaiser not the fugly
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goto www.gpspassion.com and you'll find a wealth of gps info. Reasonable time with quick gps is about 5-20 seconds with a good signal (outside) on the kaiser. Clouds can affect things but I've never seen it hamper anything.

I wonder if there is a difference in aquiring signal between the Kaiser and tilt? I have not seen much issue on the kaiser but there are alot on the tilt on several boards?
d

my kaiser takes very long at the moment

It can take up to a minute or so if you haven't used it in a while. Sometimes it pretty quick (like <15 seconds, esp when it has been used in past hour or so).

I used the GPS today for a road trip. . . fired up QuickGPS and then launched my mapping software. It only took about 10 seconds for the software to "find" the onboard GPS -- and this was the first time I had used it in the 24 hours I've had it.

You need to use QuickGPS first.

gps

i got a question on gps. HOw fast does your tytn ii gps find signal? mine takes forever like 3-4 min? is there a way to increase the signal search? thanks

Which radio are you using?
Mine takes couple of seconds max.

pinx said:
Which radio are you using?
Mine takes couple of seconds max.
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Click to collapse
I think it depends upon the radio a lot. Some radios are very quick (I am currently using NIKI XX.17 as I need quick GPS locks - now takes seconds not minutes), others are not.

When I first got my kaiser, T-mobile vario III the GPS was very quick to get a fix taking less than one minute to get the first fix after boot up and subsequently a matter of a few seconds.
Unfortunately this was about the only thing that was quick though, so I installed one of Dutty's ROMs which vastly improved the overall performance of the device for most tasks, except getting a GPS fix which all of a sudden was intolerably slow, sometimes almost impossible.
I experimented flashing various radios but nothing seemed to make much difference so I kind of gave up. The other day I upgraded again, to Dutty's latest ROM and all of a sudden my GPS performance is back to how it was when I first got the kaiser, despite the fact the radio version included in the rom is the same as the one I had before. So I'm very pleased about this, but also perplexed. I don't know what factors influence the speed of getting a GPS fix but for me Dutty's latest ROM is good so maybe you should try that.
One thing that I did notice is that getting a GPS fix was always quicker when travelling in the car not standing still.

look9001 said:
One thing that I did notice is that getting a GPS fix was always quicker when travelling in the car not standing still.
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Click to collapse
Which is strange... Normally GPS's are quicker to fix when stationary rather than moving...
I'll be getting mine soon, so once I have it, I will test with the T-Mobile standard and - if I get it installed, being a WinMob n00b myself that is by no means certain! - with Dutty's latest...

CescoAiel said:
Which is strange... Normally GPS's are quicker to fix when stationary rather than moving...
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Click to collapse
It is strange isn't it? But I'm sure it was true in my case. For example I once walked to work with the GPS switched on as a test, I was holding it in my hand so it had a direct line to the sky at all times. When I got there about fifteen minutes later it still hadn't got a fix. The next day I drove somewhere and after about two minutes it had a fix.

As long as I'm outside (or in the car) under clear sky, I get a lock in Google Maps or Telenav in only a few seconds. Inside my apartment, but near a window, Google Maps will eventually get a lock, but it can take it 3-5 minutes to do so. In my office, which also has a window but which faces out to a courtyard surrounded by brick walls (and up 5 stories above my floor), I just cannot seem to get a fix at all.
Outside with clear sky above though, moving or stable, it is very quick - never more then 10s and usually far less.

What kind of buildings and other obstructions were around you? In order to get enough fixes to pinpoint your location it will often have to see sats out to some pretty steep angles. One guy we met who does commercial GPS systems showed us where the birds were from out on a beach. The 4th one was only something like 20 degrees above the horizon out over the ocean.

My first impressions

Basically, I am underwhelmed
After a few hours playing, my thoughts .....
The Good
Nice size
Looks good
Screen resolution
The bad
Touch interface is crap. Give me SPB Mobile Shell any day
The on/off switch is easily knocked on/off - in the pocket or especially when using the slip case
Frequent waits for a response from a screen press -so you press it again, and again, and again and then things lock up or slow down.
The back gets really hot when using GPS or heavy 3G use
... and the ugly
The phone looks a bloody greasy slimy slippery mess after being in the hand for only two minutes
A triumph of form over function
I wonder what other little gems are waiting to be discovered

Touch interface is crap. Give me SPB Mobile Shell any day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tweaks solve this problem.
The on/off switch is easily knocked on/off - in the pocket or especially when using the slip case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is indeed a big problem, if true.
Frequent waits for a response from a screen press -so you press it again, and again, and again and then things lock up or slow down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said above, tweaking solve it.
The back gets really hot when using GPS or heavy 3G use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How hot can it get ?, stop being a child.
The phone looks a bloody greasy slimy slippery mess after being in the hand for only two minutes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can buy a case that will always be on. It will be better protected too.

PaulusUK said:
The phone looks a bloody greasy slimy slippery mess after being in the hand for only two minutes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you shouldn't have eaten fried chicken before using it

tweaking is always the answer.. but why bother?
so it seems that even this Diamond that was announced as SO great needs tweaking to be REALLY usable :-(
But why do HTC always require to do all the job of installing, testing, tweaking, re-testing, uninstalling (as soft is not compatible with 'just' this device) , re-installing another one, test it for a few days, etc...
(including all the crashes that we have while testing it)
Lame !
Shame on HTC and Windows Mobile for making an OS where not-everything may work great.
Well.. iPhone then.

Come on, it's worth it just for Teeter! I've just finished it, need to call it a night.
Seriously though, the accelerometer by itself is a brilliant addition and I'm sure some amazing applications will come of it.

PaulusUK said:
Basically, I am underwhelmed
After a few hours playing, my thoughts .....
The Good
Nice size
Looks good
Screen resolution
The bad
Touch interface is crap. Give me SPB Mobile Shell any day
The on/off switch is easily knocked on/off - in the pocket or especially when using the slip case
Frequent waits for a response from a screen press -so you press it again, and again, and again and then things lock up or slow down.
The back gets really hot when using GPS or heavy 3G use
... and the ugly
The phone looks a bloody greasy slimy slippery mess after being in the hand for only two minutes
A triumph of form over function
I wonder what other little gems are waiting to be discovered
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol!
Wait until you need to use the speakerphone or direct push mail, and your battery only lasts 3 hours on standby.

mital said:
lol!
Wait until you need to use the speakerphone or direct push mail, and your battery only lasts 3 hours on standby.
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Click to collapse
Well, I use those and my phone lasts till the end of the day, How long have you had the phone? I have noticed with every charge the batterys improves.

Mital, you hd it for a few weeks now ?
happy overall or not ?
The battery is going to be that bad for most device when using push email, I have my HTC Trion and if push email on with GPRS it last a bit more than a working day, if Wifi then just around 8 hours,
seem sno much differece with Dimond then.

My first major problem was that of no GPS access - several programs would not access the GPS and the phone would freeze when the GPS was accessed. Then I loaded Microsoft Voice Command 1.6 and this completely locked the phone - TouchFlo worked, but nothing would open when clicked on, and no change after soft resets either.
So, the first hard reset.
Then after reinstalling some GPS software, still no access to the GPS - and no changes in the com port settings made any difference.
So after much faffing about, the second hard reset.
So here I am scared to touch the phone in case I upset it and it frezes me out again!
And I think Opera hogs the resourses not only in use, but even after its closed down. The diamond works even slower after I have used Opera. Wierd.
And yes it is red hot after GPS and GPRS/3G use. I will measure it tonight with and IR thermometer, but there is no way it can be handheld for a long time at that temperature.
I suppose I could fry some bacon and eggs on it while waiting for the OS to do something. lol

Mmm, bacon and eggs sounds good to me, count me in!
I have to say I'm not experiencing the problems your getting. The only problem, which is easily solved, is that I don't get as good reception as with other phones Ive previously owned, but Ive noticed there are a few Radio updates floating around XDA Developers so will look into that.
With regards to programs not closing correctly, i found that making sure that when the 'X' is touched it closes down the program, does it for me.
Also my GPS works flawlessly with Tom Tom. I think you may unfortunately have a faulty unit as im not experiencing any of what your suggesting. My phone gets warm but never hot enough for Bacon AND Eggs
I find the handset can be a bit frustrating when typing sometimes, but thats always been the case with touch screen phones and people who say that they are perfect and better than a hardware keyboard are telling porkies! HTC arent there yet, but for me, there not far off!
Seriously tho, im sorry to hear that your getting problems and hopefully they will be solved soon.

Well, I have my Diamond since mid-June and I have to say that at first I wasn't very impressed with its speed.
The TF3D was very jerky and took a long to respond to my inputs.
Since my unit was one of those grey imports from HK made by Expansys, I thought that it probably had something to do with it, mainly a very early ROM (It's my third HTC model and I'm used to buy it and then tweak it).
So I started to look in the xda-dev forum and to try some of the ROMs, tweaks and cab files that our xda-dev resident geniuses provide.
And I must say that my Diamond is behaving very well, certainly a lot, lot better than it did a month ago.
- I never had major problems with any kind of software (not that I have a lot of stuff installed)
- The 4Gb storage memory is (for the time being) enough for my needs.
- The GPS (with TomTom 6), BT, WiFi and all that is working OK.
- The battery duration improved and it lasts for a day or more (more significantly since ROM update)
- The VGA screen is a must
On the other hand it does get a bit hot doing certain tasks, but so does my laptop when I have it sitting in my lap.
Also, even though HTC made a huge effort (in my opinion) to make a more 'user friendly' interface, don't forget that it still runs on MS WM6, and that, for now, is something that we have to live with.
Overall, I recommend it, but to get the most of it, you really need to keep looking for updates (and xda-dev is the best place for it) to improve its performance.
Regards,

Inaccuracy of GPS

Well i have a question.
When i use TomTom or IGO the position on the screen is always about 50 meters off to where I actually am.
So since IGO & TomTom Both have the same behaviour i guess i should look at the GPS module.
My old S730 was always spot on... when i looked at the screen and saw a turn on the left, there actually was a turn to the left.
Anybody knows how this can be solved ?

My TD2 does not have this problem, perhaps there is an issue with your particular phone?

I thoght about it before and found out that it was not inaccuracy but the delay GPS chip needs to calculate your position. Do one test. Some time when you stop at a red light and you know you've waited for about 5 secs, check your position then. I believe it will be accurate then.
I noticed that some GPS's try to calculate your current position based on direction and speed you had few seconds ago. I found out about it one time when I waited at the red light in a long tunnel. Obviously there was no signal there, but when I stopped, GPS kept on showing that I was moving about 40MPH for several seconds before it finally showed lost signal message.
Some GPS's do calculate your position ahead of time and some don't.

Maybe it was because i had assisted GPS turned on...
If you do a search on AGPS LAG (ANY HTCPRODUCT WITH AGPS) then you will see enough posts that speciffically deals with this problem...
My old phone is SPOT ON with TT and my new 2 times faster phone is less accurate, and in a street with lots of turns, take a-lefts etc it's quite important to rely on the machine. And when the machine says turn left on the next corner, is that left the one i am currently at or the one 20 meters ahead from where i am now....
It should be just as with my old phone spot on

Well disabeling AGPS definitely works...
I am now about 20 meters behind all the time. This seems acceptable although I keep finding it strange that my older phone was way more accurate.....

you mean disable QuickGPS or disable AGPS in Advanced Config??

It is definitely a lag issue, not a precision issue: my TD2 internal GPS is at least as accurate as my Qstarz bluetooth GPS logger, and this one has a dedicated large antenna and good GPS chipset. TD2 sensitivity is also comparable, maybe even better inside building, and the time before locking a signal from coldstart is also comparable or better...
BUT there is a lag of maybe 30 m around 50 km/h in my car, and it is is indeed quite noticeable for driving directions...No big deal for me, as I do not rely on voice instruction but always have a quick peak at the screen (I was bitten by ambiguous instruction often enough in the past with other GPS system to have developped this quick peak habit ;-) )..but this lag is indeed anoying...
I'd like to try the TD2 using the external GPS through bluetooth, if I find time to do it this WE I will post my conclusions...

well0549 said:
Well i have a question.
When i use TomTom or IGO the position on the screen is always about 50 meters off to where I actually am.
So since IGO & TomTom Both have the same behaviour i guess i should look at the GPS module.
My old S730 was always spot on... when i looked at the screen and saw a turn on the left, there actually was a turn to the left.
Anybody knows how this can be solved ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use to have the same problem as you, so, I've tried the tweak referred in this post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=514912 and it did the trick for me.
I use iGo8 and NDrive and the accuracy improved a lot, it's almost spot on, no matter what speed I'm driving.
Regards,

I was in my mates Audi TT the other day. He has the built in GPS in the dash board. I noticed there was as much lag as you see on an HTC device.
Also was in a car a few months asgo with someone who had a stand alone TomTom device and that too had lag.
Unless you're paying thousands of Dollars for millitary grade navigation equipment, i wouldn't spare the lag issue another thought.

Not long now ...
There's a bigger lag comming if the media are to be believed (and based on everything that comes from the tele, radio and newspapers these days - there're probably not - they can't even get the weather right)
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Technology/GPS-Network-Could-Fail-Next-Year-Leaving-Sat-Nav-Useless-US-Government-Accountability-Office-Warns/Article/200905315284843?lpos=Technology_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15284843_GPS_Network_Could_Fail_Next_Year_Leaving_Sat_Nav_Useless%2C_US_Government_Accountability_Office_Warns

"
Unless you're paying thousands of Dollars for millitary grade navigation equipment, i wouldn't spare the lag issue another thought."
Diamond1 paid £150 was spot on. No Lag. The speed indicator on tomtom was very accurate, not like on the diamond2 where it takes over 2 seconds to show a speed change. I am surprised that not many people have noticed the slow and inaccurate GPS performance of the D2.

Awesome speaker enhancement for Kaisers!

Hi folks, I got myself a Kaiser (Vodafone branded but unlocked) about 2 weeks ago, and have been busily reading these forums so as to NOT appear a total n00b
So far I have applied the WM6.1 update, and found the GPS "problem" (which isnt too bad as outside I get a GPS lock in 30 secs to 1 minute anyway) and am looking forwards to experimenting with some of the excellent ROMS out there when I get some free time.
I thought I'd like to share with you good people a nifty speaker enhancement I found.
When working (I am a Barista for a catering company who travels to shows etc) I like to have music playing, and MS- Voice Command gets me lots of "ooohs" from fellow workers when I tell my phone to play Pink Floyd - and it does!
The built-in external speaker is a LOT clearer and louder than my previous XDAIIi device, and so I turn the phone upside-down to enhance the audio level & quality, but it's still a bit 'tinny' and quiet, no real bass to it.
I work as a Barista, and of course I have an endless supply of 12 oz paper cups to play with and that got me to thinking.....
Take a 12oz paper cup, upright...
Start kaiser playing your favourite kind of music...
place Kaiser on TOP of cup, the right way up, so external speaker is facing down into cup, balance it on the top
Admire how you now have REAL bass sound and twice the volume!
the difference is like night & day
I can only assume the paper cup is acting as a kind of speaker enclosure for the external speaker, it sounds so much better it's fantastic!
No doubt others may want to experiment further (post any good results for us to share!), who knows it may be possible to accousically design a 'proper' reflector for it for really great sound?
just my $0.02
Joe Pinball
new (to me!) Kaiser owner, and LOVING how he gets an "oooh" from iphone users when he tilts & slides...

might try this sometimes.... thanks for the tip

Sounds like you might need to put one of those theft programs on your phone incase someone takes off with it.

Worked pretty good until someone bumped the table and my Tilt fell into the beer in the cup. Guess it would have been better to use an empty cup.

jdwilson said:
Worked pretty good until someone bumped the table and my Tilt fell into the beer in the cup.
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Click to collapse
Shame... What a waste of beer.

Reverting is easy if you want excellent GPS back again
Joe Pinball said:
Hi folks, I got myself a Kaiser (Vodafone branded but unlocked) about 2 weeks ago, and have been busily reading these forums so as to NOT appear a total n00b
So far I have applied the WM6.1 update, and found the GPS "problem" (which isnt too bad as outside I get a GPS lock in 30 secs to 1 minute anyway)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only everyone else new here did the same and researched things from the forums. This is the second time I've seen the idea of using a cup to modify the sound so there must be something in it. Having upgraded to WM 6.1, I found the broken/poorly performing GPS too and had the phone reverted to WM 6.0 (once by HTC under warranty and once myself using the info here), I can tell you it's pretty straightforward to revert back again if 15 second stationary satellite locks (and quick ones when on the move) are important to you. Personally I found the general unreliability of the HTC WM 6.1 ROMs, including powersaving related issues, another reason to revert. WM 6.0 may be a little slower but it is very reliable.

Flying Kiwi said:
Personally I found the general unreliability of the HTC WM 6.1 ROMs, including powersaving related issues, another reason to revert. WM 6.0 may be a little slower but it is very reliable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDIT: I just reverted back to 6.0 as well (with the bloatware removed) and, so far, my phone is behaving the way it SHOULD. I've lost the ability to map my PTT button to use Voice Command, so I had to map the front OK button, as the side OK button still works, and I even have Touch Flo loaded up and working fine, too. It is a bit sluggish still, but at least I got 2 of the most annoying things ironed out... I think.

I have had an updated rom ever since I got the phone. I have no complaints. I even used tom tom to take me from Texas the Colorado. (thats like you guys going from france to england or maybe spain)

ChumleyEX said:
I have had an updated rom ever since I got the phone. I have no complaints. I even used tom tom to take me from Texas the Colorado. (thats like you guys going from france to england or maybe spain)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that based on your current ROM, or the AT&T stock 6.1 ROM? I'd love to upgrade to 6.5 or at least 6.1, but my 2-PC sync and backlight problems were huge annoyances to me. I just spent over 2 hours removing all of the duplicate appointments/contacts that the sync problem created.

I used duttys 6.1 rom with tom tom and use 6.5 with google maps all the time.