Database Develop

Repeating Posts/Questions

When a member (both new and senior) repeats a post/question that has been answered before torches rise, everybody looses their head and hell breaks loose.
Just hear me out, please
Some members complain that repeating questions and posts "create spam" and just clug the forums. But comments that complain about those posts are just as unhelpful in the community.
All I'm saying is that I belive most users do search before posting a question, and they might not have found the answer with their specific phrasing. If they address the question in a different manner, in a near future when some one else encounters that same problem, they there are more chances of finding the answer, or even better: a more updated one!
So please: if you have easy access to the answer or a reference to it, it will cost you next to nothing and might save the forum several posts there after if you just actually help!!
This is something all forums suffer from. Just wanted to bring more awareness to the issue from a different perspective than most users.
... go ahead and flame me if you must

Jimmyy said:
All I'm saying is that I believe most users do search before posting a question, and they might not have found the answer with their specific phrasing.
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True enough, but the people who find the answers tend not to start a new thread about how they had a problem and then fixed it .
I've not really run into much trouble with the searching. If I find a thread where someone has asked a question that I'm also looking for the answer to and it's full of replies saying how it's been answered plenty of times before then at least I know it's an issue that's been dealt with and I can keep looking, confident that my answer is out there.
Sometimes it gets a little excessive when there's more than two or three replies to someone's thread telling them to search, but then it is clear that there's a hell of a lot of people out there that just plain don't bother trying to find things out for themselves. If anything can be done to make sure that they only do this the once, I'm all in favour.

ok, so i'll reply to this post by also referencing an answer
this thread is redundant you <insert worst insult you can think of here> noob
please see
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=371254

Ahhh....the irony!

I just put a rehash of previous posts in the last post and in my first post in that thread, and in Notatreofan's recent thread. Just so that more threads aren't created, I've included it here too.
_Alex_ said:
As for the problem with redundant threads, I've been trying to either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place, or
given the noob the links he wanted.
If you're genuinely interested in helping others, you'll realize that two of the three ways actually teach a person new things, which means they'll be better off on their own, while #3 only encourages them to ask more questions.
Finally, it's not the amount of time you've been here reading, because that's not contributing back to the community. So my suggestion to you would be to come back and re-read this thread after you've contributed back to the forum by having at least 500+ genuinely helpful posts and see if you feel the same way.
And I don't mean your suggestions to fix a soft key issue by bashing the keyboard with a screwdriver
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I'd like to add, if you're feeling particularly annoyed, you can always include this link. If you append your search terms like this:
Code:
http://www.justf**kinggoogleit.com/search?q=tilt+backlight+phone+call
It will redirect after 15 seconds to the google page you want. I highly suggest a bit of chastising when using that link, but please make sure they're aware that it is humorous and slightly offensive
Perhaps I've forgotten to emphasize that there is a fine line between chastising and harassing. Some members take it too far while not helping at all The idea is to get new users to become self-reliant, not flame the living crap out of them and belittle them

Xperia ROM development forum is a mess!!

Xperia ROM development forum is a mess!!

Guys,
every day i see a new thread created by some users.
It is mostly like, how can i do this, how can i do that.
It is really simple, if you want to ask something about an option or a function that isn;t working then please post in the corresponding thread so we can have a clean forum.
Here is a link to the rules:http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=256
please read it guys, it is very annoying to see a new thread everytime.
mods, please put some time in this xperia forum with cleaning out the ''litter''
@ all, thank you very much for your cooperation.

Now @ 203 views and nobody has left a comment or suggestion or something like that?
I think this is what the community has become, like only get what you need and then use it and then complaining, no suggestions or anything, no thanks for the chefs ?

i understand what ur saying but a im pretty sure a mod has just moved some of the useless threads because a lot of them have been moved

Shazad.K said:
Now @ 203 views and nobody has left a comment or suggestion or something like that?
I think this is what the community has become, like only get what you need and then use it and then complaining, no suggestions or anything, no thanks for the chefs ?
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Stop complaining... j/k
No, I think you made your point. You don't need any more spamming of THIS thread.

yeah thats right the forum is mess
but why?
the people are lazy to read
i hope we can change this in the future....
greetZ
and to all other Merry X MAS

Shazad.K said:
Now @ 203 views and nobody has left a comment or suggestion or something like that?
I think this is what the community has become, like only get what you need and then use it and then complaining, no suggestions or anything, no thanks for the chefs ?
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No.
I think people read your post and ignored it because it contained nothing useful in itself. It's a public forum, if you want neat and tidy you're probably in the wrong place.
I'm not looking to pick argument it just seems to me your original post was pointless. In most cases the title of a thread gives you enough info to decided whether it's worthy of reading.
Sure there are plenty of people who come here just to get what they want and give nothing back, again it's the nature of the beast. But I think there's still plenty of people who are willing to give as well as take and on a whole the forum still functions well.
My biggest gripe would be people asking questions answered on the previous page (i.e. lack of search) not untidiness.
Also I think the X1 forum has lost a lot of active members to the LEO forum recently. Again this is inevitable given the age of the device and the progression of handsets.
The LEO thread is much more active currently IMO. POP over there, don't forget most of what they're discussing applies to our device too.

pheL said:
yeah thats right the forum is mess
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Confirm, a bit..
pheL said:
but why?
the people are lazy to read
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this is true, but some can also give reasons (which are also true) that some threads are really huge, specially good rom threads, on average they are 1000 posts longs, some go as long as 11,000 posts (valkyrie), when someone new get a rom and gets a small bug, it is really impossible to read all past thread, and unfortunately the thread search is not always helpful...
the best thing for a rom forum is to be a wiki, where each rom gets a page with generic information, and links to threads of sub pages that have useful information, like how to fix a known bug, or where to get an app that does that thing..... and leave the bla bla discussions or personal opinions on the forum.
some rom developers follow such a method, but partially, in the first few posts reserved for the rom you sometimes find links to common issues and solutions, but after a while everything gets messy again....
a ROM is a "product" that needs its own area or even a forum by itself. not a single forum for many products, this brings the mess....
but this need much organization, the price to be less messy

Newbies don't know their way around
Shazad.K said:
Guys,
every day i see a new thread created by some users.
It is mostly like, how can i do this, how can i do that.
It is really simple, if you want to ask something about an option or a function that isn;t working then please post in the corresponding thread so we can have a clean forum.
Here is a link to the rules:http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=256
please read it guys, it is very annoying to see a new thread everytime.
mods, please put some time in this xperia forum with cleaning out the ''litter''
@ all, thank you very much for your cooperation.
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Click to collapse
You are right and its mostly down to newbies. I'm someone who makes a point of holding off on posting on a few forum until I see the layout, get the rules, etc. so I don't annoy seasoned members and get a bad rep for being stupid.
A lot of new members to the site are a bit out of their depth (I know I was when I first joined) and its not really only being used as a developers forum/site any more. If you're a newbie you've got two choices: (1) ask, (2) spend countless hours trying to work it out for yourself.
I guess the lazy ones are a bit thread happy!
EmuX
P.S. You can show people the rules but you can't make them read.
P.P.S. Isn't this another one of those clogging up threads that aren't anything to do with ROM dev though?! (joke)

I hovered around in the X1 forum for a little more than a year, and most recently, after getting a new (additional) toy, I moved over to another forum, the one which is mentioned here already.
Frankly spoken, I have the perception that the X1 forum here is quite in order, while the HD2 forum is a real mess. For many "similar" problems and questions, many newcomers open a new thread instead of using the search function. In case of the X1 forum, there is much more "discipline".
Plus, the mods of the forums are quite effective here, I would say.
I am still very thankful that xda devs exists, thanks to all who contribute, especially the cooks... and also to those who help understanding the forum (and its rules) to newcomers. All of us started "small" and as "newb", no? And from time to time, I try to help, too - even if I am just an "average" user.

Mods please close thread
I think the point is made.
mods, please close this thread

im partly responsible for your this thread and once agian, i am sorry....i promise u it wont happen again..
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. ~Winston Churchill
Sorry to all the mods and admins again...

Please Read!

Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
Too many people are trying to take the easy road and post a new thread on a subject or idea, usually asking a question about something that has already been answered instead of doing a simple search!
I've been a member here for a couple years now and haven't needed to post very much because, if you take the time, the information is out there. 99.9% of the time, you aren't the first person to ask a question, have a problem, or hit a wall.
If you're having trouble doing something that was posted in a thread, POST YOUR QUESTION IN THAT THREAD!!
It seems as though there are a lot of newbies who are anxious to root their Inc, which is fine: If you pay attention, read the instructions and most of the thread before you begin, and follow them to a T . Every time I have a problem either rooting or installing a ROM or something else, I am the one who did something wrong.
Some of you are probably new to the Thread concept, which is also fine. It's very frustrating getting used to how they work, and learning the "right" way to do things- but trust me, it's worth it.
Posting a new thread is like standing on a chair in the middle of a crowded room and screaming out a question. If your in the wrong room (i.e. wrong section), people are going to be upset. If the question was already answered by another group (i.e. another forum), people are also going to be upset. If you aren't sure if you should start a new thread, you probably shouldn't.
Take the time and READ THE RULES! Here they are if you don't know where to find them:
New forum rules, please read!
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.2 Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 New Members: Treat new members the way you would have liked to have been treated when you were a new member. Provide the new members with guidance, advice and instruction always with respect and courtesy.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
3. Post only using a clear subject and message.
You're most likely to receive a helpful answer to your question if you use a short subject title that describes your problem and a message that explains in detail what your problem is and what you've tried to solve it.
4. Use the English language.
We understand that with all the different nationalities not everyone speaks English well, but please try. If you're really unable to post in English use an online translator, You're free to include your original message in your own language below the English translation.
5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
7. Do not spam.
If you wish to advertise a product, contact us we provide ads. But do not post it in the forums, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
You are however allowed to sell used goods like your own device, parts of your device or accessories for your device in the marketplace forum, please read the rules there before posting. (This rule includes signatures, if you use a signature it will appear in your post)
8. Donations.
We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
11. Don’t post with the intent on selling something.
As an elaboration to rule number 7, don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. If you are the proprietor of a for-pay product or service, you may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or offer support on the product, but you may not make any posts with the primary intent of selling. This includes posting press releases, announcements, or links to downloads for trial software. The only exception to this is when you’re posting an exclusive release to XDA.
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
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So instead of starting a new thread like "How do I.." or "Where do I" or "Why can't I..." Do a search of the threads, Google it, or even hop on over to PPC Geeks, Trust me- you'll find the answers you're looking for.
BTW - Thanks to Mikey1022 for moderating

+100000000000000000000000
I wish people had to read this before they could post new threads. This forum seems to be worse than most of the other android forums on xda... not sure why.
Everyone who disagrees with this should check out the nexus one forum to get an idea of how lax things are here.

You better watch it. Some people may take offense to this. people also have to be aware when they do make a new thread that it is in the correct section. Too many questions are being posted in Development instead of General. Let's keep the sections on topic so people can find what they came looking for.

I agree, but I can see the other side as well.
The "Root process" thread is up to 108 pages. Sure, searching helps, but you are still poring over pages and pages of forums for hours. I kind of learned that this was the buy-in from my WinMo days, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.
One advantage to sticking to existing threads, however, is that people who are successful will probably post back to that thread, with any variations they used, whereas they are less likely to post to a new thread.

Calibob2001 said:
Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
Too many people are trying to take the easy road and post a new thread on a subject or idea, usually asking a question about something that has already been answered instead of doing a simple search!
I've been a member here for a couple years now and haven't needed to post very much because, if you take the time, the information is out there. 99.9% of the time, you aren't the first person to ask a question, have a problem, or hit a wall.
If you're having trouble doing something that was posted in a thread, POST YOUR QUESTION IN THAT THREAD!!
It seems as though there are a lot of newbies who are anxious to root their Inc, which is fine: If you pay attention, read the instructions and most of the thread before you begin, and follow them to a T . Every time I have a problem either rooting or installing a ROM or something else, I am the one who did something wrong.
Some of you are probably new to the Thread concept, which is also fine. It's very frustrating getting used to how they work, and learning the "right" way to do things- but trust me, it's worth it.
Posting a new thread is like standing on a chair in the middle of a crowded room and screaming out a question. If your in the wrong room (i.e. wrong section), people are going to be upset. If the question was already answered by another group (i.e. another forum), people are also going to be upset. If you aren't sure if you should start a new thread, you probably shouldn't.
Take the time and READ THE RULES! Here they are if you don't know where to find them:
So instead of starting a new thread like "How do I.." or "Where do I" or "Why can't I..." Do a search of the threads, Google it, or even hop on over to PPC Geeks, Trust me- you'll find the answers you're looking for.
BTW - Thanks to Mikey1022 for moderating
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How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.

Calibob2001 said:
Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
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You know they won't. The ones who post these repeated topics are the ones who freak out when they're lost, post a topic, and hit refresh all day instead of looking for the answer. The only ones who actually read this are the ones already pissed off about it.

barry1685 said:
How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.
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LOL, I didn't even read it. Just scrolled to through the comments

bluetooth_decay said:
I agree, but I can see the other side as well.
The "Root process" thread is up to 108 pages. Sure, searching helps, but you are still poring over pages and pages of forums for hours. I kind of learned that this was the buy-in from my WinMo days, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.
One advantage to sticking to existing threads, however, is that people who are successful will probably post back to that thread, with any variations they used, whereas they are less likely to post to a new thread.
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There are so many pages of topics because of the issue that is being described. There is a very handy function called "search" that, while not perfect, at least narrows results down for you. You can search within a Section, Topic or down to a single thread for key words.
Odds are, if you are on here you know how to navigate the web. If you can't perform a basic search in a topic or thread then please don't try to root your phone or follow any instructions to change, modify or "hack" anything.
As was brought out by [OP], if you WANT to do something that you think will be useful to you, read up on it. If you do run into an issue, search the key word of your issue. Entering "boot loop", "frozen", "Error message 123" will return something to help you find your answer. Odds are, you are not alone and, if you find you are alone, return to the thread where you were following instructions to do whatever it was you want to do and post a reply describing your issues. [OP] or others who are familiar with the process will help. Patience is a must.

barry1685 said:
How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.
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Far too long than I care to admit - My first draft was rather angry and the overtone has calmed quite a bit...
And even if ONE newbie reads it and gleans even a whisper of insight as to how to operate the forums, then I have been 100% successful- even if 1% of those who read it take this to heart, at this point, that's still 2 fewer Threads the moderators have to close down...

Trust me, no matter what you try to do, you cannot stop people from reposting over and over.
Trust me, no matter what forum I'm at, it's the same thing over and over. It ruins it for us that actually read stuff and search for a while before asking, but such is life.
Infact if you'd search you'd see that there are multiple threads of this nature all over every forum...I know I've seen quite a few on XDA alone.

codybear said:
Infact if you'd search you'd see that there are multiple threads of this nature all over every forum...I know I've seen quite a few on XDA alone.
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So are you saying the op didn't take his own advice?
BTW I am glad someone changed the title of this thread as no one is going to respect your opinion when you start off that way.
On a side note I am new to this forum but from my experience thus far it has been very underwhelming. I made one thread and had issues with posters coming off as elitists. I don't know how modding gets done around here but until people can be civil this will always be a secondary place for me to post about Android news and the Droid Incredible.
I expected more from an XDA forum.

Hand76 said:
So are you saying the op didn't take his own advice?
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What he's saying is that there are a lot of people who don't read the Forum rules and post new threads without doing a little research to figure things out for themselves. If you need help figuring things out, that's fine- but don't expect other people to do your leg work for you.
Hand76 said:
On a side note I am new to this forum but from my experience thus far it has been very underwhelming. I made one thread and had issues with posters coming off as elitists. I don't know how modding gets done around here but until people can be civil this will always be a secondary place for me to post about Android news and the Droid Incredible.
I expected more from an XDA forum.
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I looked up your thread, and honestly I found the answer to both of your questions with a very simple Google search- These are the threads that frustrate members most. There is already a thread that addresses everything from unlocking to removing apps and it's HERE, or better yet, you can look HERE for a list of safe apps to remove and how to remove them... This is where your questions should probably be, not in a new thread.
There are a lot of helpful, knowledgeable people here, you just gotta learn to follow the rules...

Calibob2001 said:
and honestly I found the answer to both of your questions with a very simple Google search
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So you suggest doing a google search instead of coming to these forums for an answer?
Calibob2001 said:
There is already a thread that addresses everything from unlocking to removing apps and it's HERE, or better yet, you can look HERE for a list of safe apps to remove and how to remove them... This is where your questions should probably be, not in a new thread.
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The first thread you linked to is a root thread that covers every topic under the sun. So according to you we should just have one thread on this entire forum and no one should post anything outside of it.
The second thread you linked to I posted in and got 1 answer but many other questions were unanswered.
Still you are coming off as a complete elitist and I don't know why this thread is stickied when on most other forums this would have been locked, especially with the condescending way you started things off.
That is just my two cents.

tl;dr
firstly the rules are already out there: dont repost them asking people not to repost
secondly people do search, but you cant expect everyone to get the search terms right all the time and find what they want. also there are a lot of questions that may sound similar but are not. most of the folks on xda are good people who are trying to get answers and are not purposeful spamming douchebags, so stop the whining and dont read threads you dont want to.

TownHall Meeting - Finalized - Look @ Post 3 for Summary

The TownHall Meeting has been officially started. Here are the rules of engagement:
Ok, enough joking for now. Here are the true rules of engagement:
1. Posts that are flaming or flame bait are to be deleted, no questions asked.
2. Language to be edited on sight....
3. No banning, No infractions.
4. Moderators will act only as a mediator, so we will not be taking sides with anyone.
Welcome everyone

@everyone,
Please respect the rules above and I can guarantee you that by the end of the day, we will have a much happier and friendlier atmosphere in this place.

Summary of action items
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.

I think the problems in the Development forums stem from a general misconception of what it means to be a "developer" and how one earns that title. Often I will hear people flame people like Team Whiskey or Master as mere "re-skinners", because the main(not all) thing that is in their changelog is mere aesthetic changes. I think the mods should post clearly that anything that involves changing the rom should be considered a type of development, even if only graphical development. This would dissolve any type of hate towards people that reskin or release graphical modifications to already existing roms.(IMHO)

Ok, since we are off to a slow start, there are a few topics that I would like to address today. The biggest one, in my book anyways, is forum conduct.
We have had numerous complains coming from the Vibrant fora from newcomers (n00bs) complaining that they cannot even dare ask anything due to fear of being flamed to smithereens. Anyone care to elaborate on this?

lralexl said:
I think the problems in the Development forums stem from a general misconception of what it means to be a "developer" and how one earns that title. Often I will hear people flame people like Team Whiskey or Master as mere "re-skinners", because the main(not all) thing that is in their changelog is mere aesthetic changes. I think the mods should post clearly that anything that involves changing the rom should be considered a type of development, even if only graphical development. This would dissolve any type of hate towards people that reskin or release graphical modifications to already existing roms.(IMHO)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for starting things off...
So, what you are saying is that a lot of the flaming occurs due to skinners being deemed as kangers. Am I getting this right?

I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.

lralexl said:
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
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Click to collapse
Fair enough, let me bring forth the rule that addresses this issue "Using the work of others"
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In essence skinning is ok so as long as the member seeks permission from the original dev. It looks like the biggest problem is either a misunderstanding about this rule or lack of knowledge about its existence by both accusing party and "guilty/innocent" party. As a general rule of thumb, if you are making a rom that is based on someone else's work:
* Ask for permission
* Give credit where its due
Simple as that.

Interesting point...
From my experience on hero, people tend to post a theme pack for a ROM. For example, a few regular users port the same few themes into each new ROM I make, and release an add-on patch for it.
They don't go and release it as a separate ROM, but if they did, I have no doubt they would ask me about it first, and I would say sure, but with the caveat that we don't want it to happen too often... What would people think if we had one ROM that is tweaked theme-wise a few times and re-posted as separate ROMs?
There's no "right" answer, but provided people ask the original developers, and give credit per rule 12, then there is no issue with the rules there, so users would be allowed to.
Whether or not it is a "ROM" is up to individual perspectives then.

egzthunder1 said:
Fair enough, let me bring forth the rule that addresses this issue "Using the work of others"
In essence skinning is ok so as long as the member seeks permission from the original dev.
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Click to collapse
I don't even think its a permission issue really. I've just seen in a few threads people calling a skinner a developer, and then you'll have a flamefest erupt of people saying that skinning or winzipping isn't developing. I think this leads everyone more away from the truth that it's all contributions to the community and should be treated as such.

As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.

lralexl said:
I don't even think its a permission issue really. I've just seen in a few threads people calling a skinner a developer, and then you'll have a flamefest erupt of people saying that skinning or winzipping isn't developing. I think this leads everyone more away from the truth that it's all contributions to the community and should be treated as such.
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Click to collapse
Ok, I think that we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. Conceptions of what people's role is should not be grounds for calling someone out or flaming them. The whole thing actually gets simpler from this point on.
One (implied) rule of thumb is that if the "dev" in question cannot support their release, you are more than likely dealing with a themer or a "zip wizard" and as such, you are probably better off trying to find the source of the rom and apply the theme/fix as a separate add-on.

Keslynn said:
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be a bit of added work, but the Rom review thread is not a bad idea. Just keep it clean from clutter and you have a very good tool to prevent new threads of "What is the best rom?" kind from erupting... I like that!
When it comes from flaming, some people will just put out flame bait for the hell of it. What I need, or at least I would like to see, is for everyone to stick to code of conduct and either ignore it, report it, or else, just not add to the fire.

First, we do recognize that we have a problem. We know this because 1) developers are leaving and forming their own sites because they don't like some of the things going on here. And 2) newer people are afraid to post here. Instead, they go to other forums and ask questions and state that they are afraid to post here. Both of these are big problems for the health of the site.
So, we look at the root causes. Most of them stem from 1) a lack of courtesy or 2) a lack of proper conduct. But I think the problems start with:
1. The Samsung Vibrant's stock software is not up to par due to some poor performing components, such as the GPS.
2. Samsung and T-Mobile have failed to communicate with their community.
3. Many people have come to sites like XDA for help.
What this means is that we have a lot of people in the Development forum who really aren't developers. But, they are here because they want help making their Vibrants perform better. That's not an excuse. I'm just saying that we probably have a lot of people in the Developer section who probably should be in QA or General section.
I think we would do well to:
1. Create a NooB forum, or emphasize the General forum as the place to be.
2. Post all new released ROMs in its own forum (not General, but "ROMS" or "Releases") That way people can go there for ROMS and for SUPPORT.
3. I would hope that this would enable the development forum to get back to being one were developers (or people who are interested in developing) could hang out.
Lastly, there are just some people who are like to cause trouble or are overly sensitive. I'm not sure what to do with them. But if they can't play nice, probably the first thing is to "parent" them and see if they can play nice. If that doesn't work, then it is time for a "timeout", or a temporary or permanent ban.
Lastly, while I appreciate the TownHall meeting, let's not lose site of the good things happening here. I would say that the majority of people are following the rules and making meaningful contributions. But if just 10% of the people do bad things, it colors the entire community.

The Vibrant subforums have seemed to be more Wild West than anything. I feel there should be a better mod presence. Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how difficult it is to do all the moderating, especially given how much of it is behind the scenes, but I feel that there is still some regulation lacking. We need to see more people get warned within threads that get out of hand, and frankly, some banning might get the message across that XDA is going to stop taking this crap from people. This board has gotten ridiculous w/ the flaming and incessant bs. Moderation can only go so much, since it's really up to the posting base to change their ways and be more respectful towards one another in order to truly make a long-term difference, but in the short-term we need some better, more aggresive moderation since changing peoples' posting habits will not be a quick thing to happen.

Proud to be a noob
I think there does seem to be a general consensus around us "noobs" about our failure to use the "search" function in a thread that has over 600 + pages of posts. God knows I would love to just flash a ROM and read basic information or FAQ's from the developer (the one individual who SHOULD know more about their own product than anyone) if I have questions, but when you have over 200 posts about how much others love/hate the ROM/developer or personal rants or recommendations/requests for the ROM they have had no part in developing, it does make it difficult to filter out the answer to the force close issue I am experiencing (for example). Then the flame wars begin! How DARE I ask that question since it was answered previously 42 pages back with a link to another developers thread, posted on page 418 of their 700 page manifesto...you get the hint. Finding basic answers to questions is challenging at best, and most newcomers end up getting ridiculed to the point of not wanting to have any further part, or end up flaming right back. Newsflash : just because you have flashed every possible combination of ROM/kernel/modem, does in no way make you an expert. Leave that to the people that make the ROM. Replies should be streamlined to relevant information allowed only, or force a PM if you want to discuss something irrelevant or bash a newcomer if it makes you feel better.

Keslynn said:
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was think about that the other day...that's a good idea and that way the develoment forum will be kept clean.

lralexl said:
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
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Click to collapse
Are you able to comment on the personal issues or are you simply surmising?
Thanks
WB

egzthunder1 said:
Ok, I think that we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. Conceptions of what people's role is should not be grounds for calling someone out or flaming them. The whole thing actually gets simpler from this point on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To expand on this point, I've noticed people flaming over pretty much any definition. Someone posts that they're disappointed by GPS performance or screen burn in, and they get an argument over what constitutes a "feature" of the phone and told that their concern is not important. People forget that what might not be important to them may be a dealbreaker for someone else.

egzthunder1 said:
Ok, since we are off to a slow start, there are a few topics that I would like to address today. The biggest one, in my book anyways, is forum conduct.
We have had numerous complains coming from the Vibrant fora from newcomers (n00bs) complaining that they cannot even dare ask anything due to fear of being flamed to smithereens. Anyone care to elaborate on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since that's where I spend most of my time I can say for certain that this is true. I think there's a lot of younger kids in the vibrant forum who like picking fights and just generally being less than friendly. It seems like the answer to most questions asked is go search for it yourself. The information is readily available most of the time if theyd just look, but there's no reason to be rude about it.
With that said, I think since the thanks button has been added its made for a better atmosphere--so far. Definitely a welcome addition that will hopefully keep things civil.

A Friendly Reminder From The Mods Regarding Newcomers and Threads in OT

Hello Everybody,
We would like to remind everyone in this forum that even though this is the off topic section and we like to have fun and joke around, that the forum rules still apply here. As of late there has been a lot of "trolling" of new members, or newcomers to OT, and especially new threads posted here in the off topic section. This is something that needs to stop. Here at XDA we are an open forum and any member is more than welcome to post where they choose to (assuming of course that they aren't spamming up a dev thread with questions etc etc). As with any forum if you see a thread that needs to be closed use the report button. Also, as with any other forum unless you have something to contribute to the topic of the thread in a friendly way please do not post in that thread. As cliche as this sounds it remains true. "If you have nothing nice to say it is wise to say nothing at all."
What may seem as a harmless joke to you may come off as rude or offensive to a member that doesn't know you or understand the fact that you mean what you say as joke and nothing more. If you want to "troll" stick to joking around with your friends that way no one mis-interprets your posts as an attack on them personally. Members of XDA deserve to have peace of mind when posting in OT and at the moment they do not have that luxury. Violators of this rule will be considered spamming and your posts will be deleted without any prior notice. Repeat offenders will be dealt with according to XDA rules.
To give you some recent examples of why were are saying this please look at the threads linked below
[Q] Chair Type
The Longest Sentence
How Do You Shave Your Legs
iOS7 Discussion
Girls on Xda
The last one was by far the worst!
I know this seems like we may be picking on you but please understand this is not the case. This is the type of behavior we expect from each and every member on XDA no matter the forum. To all members who do choose to violate this rule, if we have to, the moderation team will hand down official warnings and infractions or even bans if necessary. Remember this is the last thing we want to do. We only want anyone and everyone that wants to join in on the fun of the Off Topic section to get their chance to do so without feeling like they are not welcomed in the section. Here at XDA we are all one big family so lets act like it.:angel:
So lets sum this up for everyone. These are not suggestions but these are the rules here on XDA!!!
No more "IBTL" posts.... instead please use the report button. That is what it is for
No more "GTFO NOOB" posts... if you ignore them they will leave you in peace.
This is a public forum and therefore all threads are public too. You may not decide who can post in a given thread, if you want a private members club start a social group.
No more spamming/trolling new threads! Only post if you have something to contribute to the topic. Anyone who wants a chance at having a thread in OT deserves a chance to have one of their own and its not up to you all to decide what stays and what goes :highfive:
Cheers Mates :victory:
The Moderation Team
@crachel
@Neo
@vanessaem
@snickler
@Perseus
@jackeagle
@Heisenberg
@OfficerJimLahey
@Droidriven
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

Thanks, the trolls in the bad threads are worse than the thread itself, imo

Ahh Alright... BTW why isn't this thread locked ?
EDIT While you guys are here, could you basically define Off Topic? I mean, we have something completely off topic and that's in no way related to XDA and there is some "off topic" that somewhat related, like tech stuff. Currently there is a bit of confusion over this that brings a lot "spam" over here.

ak700 said:
Ahh Alright... BTW why isn't this thread locked ?
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Click to collapse
Because there are undoubtedly going to be some questions about this and a little discussion (serious discussion mind you) goes a long way.

This is all really silly.
I actually saw the iOS7 thread from your link and wow, I would've loved to just discuss the operating system without anyone saying "Apple sucks Android 5ever hahahaha if you think iOS is worth talking about you're wrong omg!"
Because while I like to be silly (and poke fun at apple) at the appropriate times, I also like to have deep and meaningful conversations about electronics and whatnot without having a fanboy come up and start a pointless argument.
and some people (no one in specific) need to cut their... stuff they're doing with the "Inb4 lock" and whatnot. It doesn't add to the conversation, it doesn't help the OP if the OP is asking a question, and it basically does nothing productive. If you think a thread should be locked/is spam, report it and move on.

estabien said:
This is all really silly.
I actually saw the iOS7 thread from your link and wow, I would've loved to just discuss the operating system without anyone saying "Apple sucks Android 5ever hahahaha if you think iOS is worth talking about you're wrong omg!"
Because while I like to be silly (and poke fun at apple) at the appropriate times, I also like to have deep and meaningful conversations about electronics and whatnot without having a fanboy come up and start a pointless argument.
and some people (no one in specific) need to cut their... stuff they're doing with the "Inb4 lock" and whatnot. It doesn't add to the conversation, it doesn't help the OP if the OP is asking a question, and it basically does nothing productive. If you think a thread should be locked/is spam, report it and move on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS. Summed up my though process whenever I see a thread "trolled'

ak700 said:
EDIT While you guys are here, could you basically define Off Topic? I mean, we have something completely off topic and that's in no way related to XDA and there is some "off topic" that somewhat related, like tech stuff. Currently there is a bit of confusion over this that brings a lot "spam" over here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anything not related to the devices or development for them. This however is not the appropriate time for a "what is OT?" discussion or "My (insert device here) off topic thread relates to the device and should be moved back to that forum" discussion.
This is about making sure that the off topic forum is accessible to all without being needlessly trolled or made to feel in any way unwelcome.

Hmm okay Points noted :good::good: (No sarcasm)
That means no more Lulz?

Seraz007 said:
Hmm okay Points noted :good::good: (No sarcasm)
That means no more Lulz?
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Click to collapse
Not true at all. No one wants to take the fun away. We just ask that you respect the rules and don't have your fun at the expense of others or their threads
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

mark manning said:
Not true at all. No one wants to take the fun away. We just ask that you respect the rules and don't have your fun at the expense of others or their threads
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
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umm okay then...:good:

Ironically ibtl posts were always a no no afair. Thanks for reclarifying this issue.
This is a good thread. I can see some thinking this sucks but when mods post threads like this it actually shows they care about their site. I could mention a few other forums where they don't.
Nice write up.
:thumbup:
:beer:
sent from my T.A.R.T.I.S
(Time And Relative Tarts In Space)

Certainly excellent points. It's gotten a little out of hand lately. Admittedly the amount of new users who can't bloody read has also gotten out of hand. (Which makes me wonder, isn't it possible to simply disable the posting permissions for <10 posts users in OT (and General)? That way they can still read, just not post. Would save us all a lot of time, irritation and trouble, not to mention the mods a lot of work of both deleting the posts and keeping everyone else from trolling.)
The problem is that most people seem to be somewhat confused as to the difference between 'fun' and 'trolling'. And there's also a difference between clever/funny trolling (which even the mods do from time to time), and outright offensive trolling so obvious even my sociopathic brain finds it pathetic...
You can be clever without being a total arse. (Yes, I know, being nice isn't my speciality either.) Nobody said we can't have fun. But bullying the new kids is exactly the behavior we all hated to have directed towards us in school.
But the Girls on XDA thread wasn't that bad before it was moved to off topic. After the move there were more deleted posts than remaining posts xD

ShadowLea said:
Certainly excellent points. It's gotten a little out of hand lately. Admittedly the amount of new users who can't bloody read has also gotten out of hand. (Which makes me wonder, isn't it possible to simply disable the posting permissions for <10 posts users in OT (and General)? That way they can still read, just not post. Would save us all a lot of time, irritation and trouble, not to mention the mods a lot of work of both deleting the posts and keeping everyone else from trolling.)
The problem is that most people seem to be somewhat confused as to the difference between 'fun' and 'trolling'. And there's also a difference between clever/funny trolling (which even the mods do from time to time), and outright offensive trolling so obvious even my sociopathic brain finds it pathetic...
You can be clever without being a total arse. (Yes, I know, being nice isn't my speciality either.) Nobody said we can't have fun. But bullying the new kids is exactly the behavior we all hated to have directed towards us in school.
But the Girls on XDA thread wasn't that bad before it was moved to off topic. After the move there were more deleted posts than remaining posts xD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With regards to the 10 post rule, I'd like to make this clear as it seems that it really isn't. There is no rule stating that you can't get your first 10 posts in the Off-topic forum. There's obviously a rule about spamming, and that applies here as well. So, someone posting "Hi" 10 times in the "Say Hi" thread is spamming, but someone posting in there to say hello and then engaging in conversation in other threads is not. I really don't know why there's such a beef about new people posting in OT, other than people misunderstanding the request made a while back to not spam.
</rant>
Now that's out in public I shall rest
And with regards to the girls' thread, it's that exact type of thread that we're trying to help here, hence it being mentioned in the first post. Sometimes trolling is funny, yeah, but sometimes it's just disrespectful, and that's what I personally dislike seeing.

**** just got real, Offtopic just got more serious. This is like moving from the Attitude era to the PG13 era :silly:

Just want to throw my tuppence in this here hat.
I agree with most of what has been said in the op and other comments. @ShadowLea comment about people not reading is true enough, as moderators how many times have you locked a thread someone has opened to post a video, or a picture etc? Only for them to open yet another thread to say 'WTF'? Ok so a lot of us plow in and spam the thread, this is done because most of the time an existing thread that has been going for a long time is only a couple of lines away. It's our way of reminding people that just because this is ot doesn't mean the search button was left at the door.
People with less than ten posts do get a raw deal in ot i admit, since I've been registered with xda the the ten posts issue has always been present as an understanding that users try to make 10 useful posts. People that make their all of their first ten posts inside of ot cannot be deemed to have made 10 useful posts. Ten posts isn't hard, even if it's in the form of a question. The answers to a simple question can be useful for someone with the same issue, using search.
A lot of the more respected and older OT regulars come here to chat with like minded people away from the constant barrage of pm's and questions from new users in their device threads, i actually have a lot of respect for quite a few people in here for maintaining as much calm as they do. Recently I've noticed that there has been a lot of posts that even by my "low" standards has gone way over what is acceptable, this really does have to stop. Users here are getting younger and younger, we tend to forget this because all we see is the avatar and words on a screen.
Imma gonna stop there as even i feel that im waffling about this again ( :thumbup take what points you want from the above, it's just my opinions nothing more.
Yours
Glenn
Never interrupt me when I'm eating a banana.
Ryan Stiles

jugg1es said:
Just want to throw my tuppence in this here hat.
I agree with most of what has been said in the op and other comments. @ShadowLea comment about people not reading is true enough, as moderators how many times have you locked a thread someone has opened to post a video, or a picture etc? Only for them to open yet another thread to say 'WTF'? Ok so a lot of us plow in and spam the thread, this is done because most of the time an existing thread that has been going for a long time is only a couple of lines away. It's our way of reminding people that just because this is ot doesn't mean the search button was left at the door.
People with less than ten posts do get a raw deal in ot i admit, since I've been registered with xda the the ten posts issue has always been present as an understanding that users try to make 10 useful posts. People that make their all of their first ten posts inside of ot cannot be deemed to have made 10 useful posts. Ten posts isn't hard, even if it's in the form of a question. The answers to a simple question can be useful for someone with the same issue, using search.
A lot of the more respected and older OT regulars come here to chat with like minded people away from the constant barrage of pm's and questions from new users in their device threads, i actually have a lot of respect for quite a few people in here for maintaining as much calm as they do. Recently I've noticed that there has been a lot of posts that even by my "low" standards has gone way over what is acceptable, this really does have to stop. Users here are getting younger and younger, we tend to forget this because all we see is the avatar and words on a screen.
Imma gonna stop there as even i feel that im waffling about this again ( :thumbup take what points you want from the above, it's just my opinions nothing more.
Yours
Glenn
Never interrupt me when I'm eating a banana.
Ryan Stiles
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Click to collapse
Second that to the very last full stop.
Good description of what is happening atm, but what exactly would you like to happen?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

undercover said:
Second that to the very last full stop.
Good description of what is happening atm, but what exactly would you like to happen?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't thought that far too be honest, i read the posts and just started waffling which generally means i have more than a passing interest in saying what I'm thinking.
Never interrupt me when I'm eating a banana.
Ryan Stiles

jugg1es said:
I haven't thought that far too be honest, i read the posts and just started waffling which generally means i have more than a passing interest in saying what I'm thinking.
Never interrupt me when I'm eating a banana.
Ryan Stiles
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotcha. I'll be eagerly waiting for more. :thumbup:
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Archer said:
With regards to the 10 post rule, I'd like to make this clear as it seems that it really isn't. There is no rule stating that you can't get your first 10 posts in the Off-topic forum. There's obviously a rule about spamming, and that applies here as well. So, someone posting "Hi" 10 times in the "Say Hi" thread is spamming, but someone posting in there to say hello and then engaging in conversation in other threads is not. I really don't know why there's such a beef about new people posting in OT, other than people misunderstanding the request made a while back to not spam.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of my first 10 posts were probably in Off Topic, and they probably weren't all useful. But they never consisted of simply "Lol" or "I agree" or "Hi!" or "Hahaha". Or worse, as @jugg1es says, threads about 'see this picture' or 'look at this video'. Especially when the destined thread for it is on the bloody first page!.
Those are the issue. If someone makes a decent contribution, they're not doing anything wrong, and they don't get trolled. (much.).
It's not the best solution, and I doubt it's even good idea, but this is exactly why many forums have an age minimum. (I believe we have some seriously good developers that are under 15, though. They are the exceptions that prove the rule.)
It doesn't matter how many rules or threads about rules we have. Fact is that only about 2% of new users actually reads the rules, even if you wave it in their faces. Hell, even if you made it a "must scroll to the end to select yes" thing some EULA's have, they'd still just scroll and ignore it.
The only people who really know the rules are those of us who point them out to the people that break them.

I couldn't agree more with a lot of the points being raised here. Even though I haven't been a regular in this forum for a while now, the issue which this thread refers to was an issue then and probably ever since the Off-Topic forum was even created. As I haven't been around here recently, I can't really say whether this issue has gotten worse recently (although I guess it must've done to require a thread such as this to be needed) but, as we're all aware, most of the time it hasn't really been a bad thing and has simply been a bit of harmless trolling.
The point ShadowLea made above about people not reading the rules is, again, something we're all more than aware of and blindingly obvious that it's the main reason why any ideas such as this, however good they look "on paper", will only do so much. The only true solution, that I can think of, would be changes to the actual sign up process.
I haven't really got the ideas on such changes or even if they'd be made but I see it as the only way to stop such problems from manifesting like they have.
Sent from my HTC One via Tapatalk 4