Related
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http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9711/driversnotincludedwu3.png
To whom it may concern:
We are a part of an online organization that talks and communicates daily about several HTC Devices including the AT&T Tilt.
We are unhappy right now with HTC cause several devices are in need of driver updates to fix poor quality pictures, video play back, and playing 3D Games.
By quoting Fred Liu, Chief Operating Officer of HTC, "HTC believes that providing superior after-sales support is important to our continuing success, which is why we place such a high degree of importance on HTC Care. In the future, a number of HTC Care centers will be launched in Taiwan and overseas, allowing our customers to enjoy their mobile lifestyles without missing a call."
WELL in an e-mail received from HTC Customer Support dealing with the needed drivers counter acts the statement above made by Fred Liu, Chief Operating Officer of HTC with the following statement below:
"HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most Smartphone and enable a variety of audio and video file formats," reads the official response, in part. Furthermore, the company has officially confirmed that Imageon drivers are not in use on the affected devices, but that it "plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support."
Are we as the consumer understand the statement made by HTC Customer Support over rules Fred Liu, Chief Operating Officer of HTC Statement.
The reply made by HTC Customer Support effects the following HTC Devices and their owners (which includes AT&T Tilt):
HTC TyTN II (MSM7200), also known as:
HTC Kaiser
T-Mobile MDA Vario III
AT&T Tilt
Vodafone v1615
HTC Touch Dual (MSM7200), also known as:
HTC Nike
HTC Touch Cruise (MSM7200), also known as:
HTC Polaris
HTC Wings (MSM7200), also known as:
HTC S730
HTC Titan (MSM7500), also known as:
Sprint Mogul PPC-6800
Verizon XV6800
HTC Vogue (MSM7500), also known as:
HTC Touch P3050 (this is not the normal HTC Touch)
Sprint Touch
Verizon Touch XV6900
HTC Libra (MSM7500), also known as:
HTC S720
HTC Iris (MSM7500), also known as:
HTC S640
For this the update we ask for will not be given to current devices but will be applied to future devices instead. All these devices listed above are the ones that has this problem with poor direct draw drivers(video play back, poor camera quality, and 3d games like call of duty 2).
Further more they insult us by saying they will update future devices with the update that is needed with current devices. That means we paid high dollar for a device that is to beat all devices and they will not support their device that beats all devices. According to their website and I quote (from TyTn II Overview found here http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm):
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before, the HTC TyTN II takes global connectivity to the next level.
Staying connected means staying ahead. The TyTN II supports the full spectrum of network standards, guaranteeing that you will stay in touch ANYWHERE in the world. With an internet connection via 3.5G HSDPA that is nine times faster than 3G, using the TyTN II to download files and surf the Web is a breeze.
Communicating on the go is easier than ever with an innovative, ergonomic LCD design that positions the touch screen perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games.
Important information is just a glance away with HTC Home™, which displays a big clock and provides live weather updates, access to a quick application launcher and one touch ring settings, easy photo dialing, and more.
With a complete suite of Microsoft® Office Mobile applications, including Outlook® Mobile, Word Mobile, Excel® Mobile, and PowerPoint® Mobile, being out of the office doesn't have to mean you're out of the loop. Always ready for business - and pleasure - the HTC TyTN II makes sure you are too."
(Quoted from the HTC POLARIS found on this page http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_htctouch_cruise.htm)
The HTC Touch Cruise™ is sleek, stylish, and compact, but big on features and with an LCD screen size that gives you an excellent multimedia experience in a mobile device. Featuring HTC’s innovative TouchFLO™ interface, the Touch Cruise is extremely easy to use. Using ordinary finger gestures, you can quickly browse through e-mails, web pages, messages, music, and images, making navigation a breeze.
Live HTC Home™ vibrantly displays important information, such as real-time weather updates and a large easy-to-view clock. A quick application launcher provides easy access to favorite programs. HTC Home™ also gives you quick access to ring tone settings making it easy to adjust device sounds and alerts on the fly. The dynamic 3D Touch Cube interface enables you to quickly call contacts, open applications, listen to music, and browse media files.
Built-in GPS functionality and the included software enable you to find the fastest route to your direction, locate restaurants and services on the way, and never get lost. Avoid traffic and delays, and take detours to visit points of interest and local attractions.
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(Quoted from HTC TOUCH DUAL found here http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_htctouch_dual.htm):
Delivering a revolutionary touch experience that will change the way you use your phone, the HTC Touch Dual™ combines an intuitive touch screen and slide-out keypad within a stunning design.
Everything you need is at your fingertips. With the push of your thumb, the front panel of the device slides up to reveal a handy smart-sized keyboard. If you prefer using touch, then the revolutionary TouchFLO™ interface lets you quickly browse through e-mails, messages, music and images by using finger gestures, making navigation a breeze.
With the Live HTC Home™ screen, information such as time, new messages, weather updates, and missed calls is just a touch away. Connect using 3.5G, which is 9 times faster than 3G -- wherever you are.
PLEASE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE BOLD, HIGHLIGHTED, AND UNDERLINED section above.
This is an example of what HTC claims these devices do but in fact they don't. This is why need help to fix these problems.
From people upset with poor drivers says the following by testing their devices and the results show differently than what HTC claims from their website. The following explains just the opposite from HTC WEBSITE's CLAIM:
(THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS QUOTED FROM THE FOLLOWING WEBSITE: http://www.htcclassaction.org)
Display driver background
Here is some information on how display drivers are generally built up in Windows Mobile devices, as this will be referenced several times later on in this page.
Generally speaking, a complete set of display drivers (which indeed includes multiple drivers) are built up out of one main 'core' driver that does most of the actual talking to the hardware, and several other drivers that provide specific functionality (like GDI, DirectDraw, Direct3D, GAPI, etc) which use that 'core' driver. This is done because some part of the drivers must be responsible of keeping track of all the surfaces, make sure they all don't interfere with each other, etc. Obviously, the easiest way to do that is with such a 'core' display driver. Not having such a driver and having every functionality specific driver just do what it wants could result in weird behavior, and having them all communicate without such a core driver would be a likely source for heavy overhead.
An example of this is the LG KS20 (a device by LG also based in the MSM7200 chipset from Qualcomm). The 'core' driver here is called ahi2dati.dll, which is in turn used by the GDI / DDI, OpenGL ES, and Direct3D drivers. The latter doesn't use it directly, but that is because it's calls are mapped to OpenGL ES calls.
If you look into the complete software system deliverd on the affected phones we have personally tested, this complete system is absent. This is already a good clue that nothing uses the acceleration provided by the MSM7200/MSM7500 platform.
You will notice that on this page it is said several times that the performance from certain drivers is so low it is hardly possible the driver in question is hardware accelerated. This ofcourse compared to the specifications of the MSM7200/MSM7500. It may still be that a very small part of these drivers actually is hardware accelerated, but if that were the case, they did a downright shameful job of it.
Touchscreen
This issue is a bit tricky to get to show at first, but we have found a way to demonstrate it fairly easily. To replicate this, you will need Dynamix 3D Benchmark 1.0b and optionally My Mobiler.
Install Dynamix 3D Benchmark on the device. Note: though this is called a 3D benchmark, it does not use Direct3D or OpenGL ES. This is a benchmark using GAPI that tests Dynamix' own software rendered 3D engine. Furthermore, the benchmark itself uses a very simple 3D object. Do not try to make any assumptions whatsoever what this benchmark means to either software or hardware rendered 3D scenes on these devices, as all those assumptions would mean nothing.
You can find the application itself in Start --> Applications --> Games --> Dynamix 3D Benchmark. First, simply run it and let the benchmark do it's thing - this takes 100 seconds. At the end you will see a screen with the benchmark results. These were our results:
Average: 78 fps
Min: 19 fps
Max: 86 fps
Ofcourse, the important number here is the average FPS counter. Min and max are too easily influenced. Now, run the benchmark again, but when it starts, put your stylus to the touchscreen and start making circles with it, continue making the circles until the benchmark ends. When doing this, you will immediately see the FPS counter at the topleft of the screen drop. Again, these are our results:
Average: 32 fps
Min: 12 fps
Max: 76 fps
As you can see, the performance influence is enormous. Performance is halved due to use of the touchscreen. Next, we confirm that this is indeed a touchscreen issue. We do this by using My Mobiler. Install My Mobiler on your PC, and make sure your device is connected through USB (not Bluetooth) and ActiveSync. Use My Mobiler to connect to your device (it will install itself on the device through ActiveSync) and you can get your device's display on your PC screen. Start the benchmark again (through the screen on your PC) and let it run. Our results:
Average: 65 fps
Min: 51 fps
Max: 84 fps
Due to My Mobiler and the resources it takes capturing the screen and transmitting it to your PC, the FPS count is a bit lower, this is to be expected. Now we do the stylus-circling trick, but through My Mobiler. Start the benchmark and on the computer press down the left mouse button in your mobile device's screen and keep circling your mouse in that area, for as long as the benchmark runs. Our results:
Average: 62 fps
Min: 38 fps
Max: 80 fps
These results were a bit lower than the previous one, which can be explained through the inaccuracy (no two benchmarks are ever completely the same) and the added processing due to the mouse input. Now the trick with this is, that My Mobiler works by simulating the stylus input, by directly sending the relevant window messages to the foreground application. This means it completely bypasses the touchscreen hardware as well as software (the driver). As the issue is not apparent now, we have proven that the issue is indeed due to the touchscreen, and not due to any other subsystem.
A next step would be proving without a doubt that it is a software (driver) issue and not a hardware issue. This will require some ROM cooking and hacking to do, and we are still looking into it. It is however very unlikely that this a hardware issue.
Camera
The camera is a complicated item, as it depends on the camera hardware, the radio ROM, software drivers, and normal software. Most users will be able to easily verify that the camera application is very slow. Some devices' software seems to perform better than others, and quality and speed also seems to differ with different radio ROMs. The point remains that the camera is almost unusable, even with the fastest combination of HTC software and radio ROMs, and especially with the stock software from the HTC TyTN II. Ofcourse, having slow display drivers will negatively affect this issue, as the software will update a full screen image constantly. When this is slowed down due to the display drivers, the camera application is also slower. It's still doubtful, however, that this is an issue having to do with only the display drivers, there's likely a lot more involved.
GDI / DDI
It is very hard to verify wether this driver is hardware accelerated or not with absolute certainty, as it does talk to hardware in any case. However, seeing the system mentioned above is absent and the performance of this driver is abysmal, it is highly doubtful it is. Some dissembling and debugging can confirm this is not the case, but that is beyond the scope of this page.
DirectDraw
The DirectDraw driver provided on the devices we have tested is the default DirectDraw driver provided my Microsoft. One way to verify this is by dissecting the ROM from one of the devices. You will notice that ddraw.dll is system driver, not an OEM one. Note though that it is not necessary for the DirectDraw driver to use hardware acceleration directly to take advantage of a device's hardware acceleration. As of DirectX 8, which is the base for Mobile DirectX, DirectDraw has been integrated with Direct3D. DirectDraw's hardware acceleration is thus dependant on other drivers having hardware acceleration.
THREE OF THREE PAGE
Direct3D
There are several things that can clue you in on these drivers not being hardware accelerated.
First, on some devices Mobile Direct3D doesn't work at all (they are missing), which also means they are not hardware accelerated.
Second, the system noted in the Display driver background section above is absent.
Another good one is looking at the registry entries for the D3DM drivers, which can be found at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\D3DM\Drivers. Here you will find two values, LocalHook and RemoteHook. On most devices, the LocalHook is set to htc_d3dm.dll and RemoteHook is left empty. LocalHook is used for drivers that load in the so-called user-space, and is generally only used for software rendering. This is because drivers loaded into user-space do not have direct hardware access. According to Microsoft, any driver set up this way may be assumed to be a software-only renderer. Note that it is not completely impossible for a hardware accelerated driver to be loaded this way, though it is certainly not advisable and we have never heard of such a case. RemoteHook is used for drivers that load in the kernel-space, and do have direct access to hardware, which is pretty much necessary for hardware acceleration. Also see this page on MSDN for more information.
Last but certainly not least, the D3DM driver found on the devices we have checked out, identified themselves as the "Microsoft D3DM Reference Driver". This is a software-only/skeleton D3DM driver provided by Microsoft to system builders, for debugging and development purposes. As far as we know, you aren't even allowed to spread this driver though, which makes this extra interesting.
OpenGL ES
There are two different interfaces available to make use of OpenGL ES, known as the Open GL ES Lite Profile and Common Profile. As the names suggest, one is the light version and the other is the normal version. These interfaces are provided by these two dynamic link libraries:
libgless_cl.dll - Lite Profile
libgless_cm.dll - Common Profile
On all devices we have tested, neither of these was available, meaning OpenGL ES is completely unsupported (and thus not hardware accelerated). Also see this page on Khronos for more information.
GAPI
We are not yet completely sure if this driver is hardware accelerated or not, however, as the complete driver system mentioned earlier is not present and none of the other drivers seem to have hardware acceleration, it would be fairly safe to assume that it isn't. The performance of this driver is also subpar, another good indicator that it's not using hardware accelerated functionality. A good indicator is tearing and flickering, this usually doesn't happen with a hardware accelerated driver (as seen with for example GAPI Benchmark 2.0). Looking at the driver itself, it does not seem to make use of any direct hardware calls.
Video playback
Video playback is dependant on several things. Slow display drivers will ofcourse limit the frame rate you get, and provide a far worse experience than fast display drivers. The decoding process also has something to do with it. The compression used in videos these days (almost always MPEG-4 or similar) is fairly complicated and does require a decent amount of processing power to decompress. The MSM7200/MSM7500 platform however also provides hardware acceleration for exactly this. Though a driver is present on these devices to assist in this (QTV), it does not seem to be used by any software. But even when this additional driver would not be present, movie playback should still be much faster than it currently is.
This has upset the owners of several of these type of devices. For this, a lot of people and I quote, "will never buy HTC products again cause this company doesn't support their devices". That means the TILT, on AT&T, sales will suffer cause HTC will not support current devices, but they want us to buy future devices with the update needed now for current devices. Why pay more money on future devices when HTC don't and will not support current devices now.
If there is anything, as in AT&T, can help push HTC to update the driver needed would be appreciated.
I have included some examples of issues posted on www.youtube.com that shows some examples:
The first video shows some 3d games with poor game play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL8uq4FtduY
The second video shows extreme poor frames per second while taking pictures with the camera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjS9zz2bww
The last video shows explorer mode on 2 devices. On the left is the AT&T Tilt (Qualcomm 7200 400 Mhz Processor) and on the right is HTC Voyager made back in 2003 (Ti-Omap 132 Mhz Processor). As this video shows the lower processor out performs the bigger processor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qbaDLzOU_Y
IMO everyone should contact everyone.. I've already written HTC, AT&T.. I dont really like microsoft >.> but might bite the bullet and talk to them...
in some cases it's not what you say, or how you say it, but the amount of money we cost EVERYONE with numerous and volumes of e-mails that say nothing more then "Fix my tytn ii/kaiser/tilt" that can get the job done...
eventually (the carriers) and HTC will get tired of the amount of 'Fix my drivers' spam they get and try to resolve it.. why? not because it's the right thing to do, but because it costs them lots of money in labor hours to filter through the E-mails.
HTC US: [email protected]
HTC PR Dept: [email protected]
If you're overseas, instead of just e-mailing them directly, tie up both avenues.. Call HTC's local call center and ask them what the E-mail address is to write about the issue.
When I need something from my local carrier I hit them by E-mail, phone, and writing.. Why? The more money and time you cost them the faster they try to get you off their backs
It would be best if you would type it all into a nice word document, and then upload that document. It makes things easier.
DELETED this page see post one thru three
i put the whole e-mail up cause i had prob posting a doc file on here sorry
Probably would help us if we got Qualcomm to release the SDK for this instead. That's what's really stopping us from possibly rolling our own drivers.
Qualcomm has stated that they do not release the OEM drivers to any of their processors to the general public.
--James
Thanks.
I might contact AT&T again with the same email you posted.
Maybe we can get your email up on Digg and have thousands of people email it to HTC and AT&T?
I already have been emailing AT&T (no response at all) and HTC:
My latest response:
Thank you for emailing me a generic response.
Please note that I complained about the performance of Windows Mobile and NON-VIDEO applications.
This is not just about video playback!
My problem is the device is very sluggish, especially compared to much older devices. This includes the drawing of normal applications, like the Today screen and TomTom, taking pictures (almost undoable), responding to user input, answering a call, opening the start menu, as well as playing games and video playback. This is certainly not up to par with the device's specifications.
The devices' specifications state that they use the MSM7200 and MSM7500 chipsets. The MSM7200 and MSM7500's specifications state they have (impressive) hardware accelerated video capabilities on-board. As neither HTC nor AT&T have never stated these hardware accelerated video capabilities would not be available, I have (correctly) assumed they should be.
Even your own press releases (http://www.america.htc.com/products/tilt/default.html and http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-070905.htm) try to impress by stating these capabilities.
THAT IS MISLEADING ADVERTISING!
As to your response: provide drivers for the Qualcomm MSM7xxx based units to use the ATI Imageon video acceleration hardware!
I will make this really simple to you:
FIX THE PROBLEM OR I WILL RETURN THE DEVICE!!!
From: Max [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 10:22 AM
To: xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: RE: AT&T Tilt Video Inquiries
Hello ,
Thank you for your inquiry about the AT&T Tilt.
We know it is important for you to have all the information about your device. We regret to inform you that any software updates for your device must come through AT&T. HTC does not sell units to customers directly, the devices are re-branded, reprogrammed, and remodeled at the discretion of the cell phone carrier or service provider.
Regarding the video performance. In reference to the official press release in response to the driver inquiry issue, HTC does not offer exclusive or dedicated multimedia devices. The Qualcomm MSM7xxx based units do not use the ATI Imageon video acceleration hardware. Please verify that you have few if any programs running in the background, and do not have any conflicting third party software that may affect the use of the Windows Mobile 6 operating system.
If your issues persist, you may consider master resetting your device through the clear storage option under settings and system. Note this operation will remove your personal settings and return your device to the original OEM settings. All information on your SIM and Storage card will remain safe. You may also consider providing feedback to AT&T for requests regarding any support software or ROM updates where we may then host them on our web page for download.
Thank you for your patience and for contacting HTC. Please contact us again if you have any other inquiries.
HTC Technical Support
http://www.america.htc.com
http://www.htcwiki.com
http://www.cingular.com/support/
--- Original Message ---
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Received: 2/9/08 7:41:52 PM EST
To: "'Pratheepan'" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: issue with video playback
I appreciate the response and hope that a solution can be found quickly.
I would hate to have to return the device in exchange for a non HTC device.
• Your full name: xxxxx
• Mobile number: xxxxx
• IMEI: xxxxx
• P/N: xxxxx
• S/N: xxxxx
• ROM Version: 1.57.502.2 (stock AT&T ROM)
• Details of issue: Horribly slow graphics performance in Windows Mobile and many applications. My main issue is with the horribly slow performance of Windows Mobile on the device. The buildup if program screens is really slow. You click on opening the application and it takes 5-10 seconds where the current screen is frozen before the application window is slowly being built up. Opening menus takes FOREVER. These things all work LIGHTNING FAST in comparison on older devices running the same version of Windows Mobile. Scrolling any list, is slow and you can see new items being slowly drawn. Opening the phone “program” takes approx. 5 seconds. After dialing a phone number the whole device seems to freeze when the dial button is clicked before the “call window” is displayed. TomTom Navigator GPS Software runs jerky compared to how it performs on my old hw6515 which is almost 4 years old. In Internet explorer it takes forever for websites to be displayed and scrolling performance is HORRIBLE! Video and multimedia performance is also horribly slow compared to older devices.
Please provide a detailed account of the issue that you have experienced, which includes:
• Program used Windows Mobile / TomTom / Microsoft Reader / …
• Any other details that you believe to be relevant: My hw6515 as well as a friends HTC TyTN I (the model before the TyTN II) have NONE of these issues and perform much better/quicker"
For Video:
• Program used: Windows Media Player
• File size 350MB
• File format/encoding WMV
• Resolution 640x480
• Video scaling (50%, 100%, full screen, etc.): full screen.
I would also suggest posting something on AT&T's customer service forums!
Before I just posted something there were 0 (yes ZERO) posts about this issue there.
http://forums.wireless.att.com/cng/board?board.id=cingular
I also recommend posting negative reviews about this issue wherever you can.
I always use Amazon so I posted a negative review there.
(What makes me really angry are some of the reviews on there which IMO sound fishy as if they were written by HTC employees to counter some of the negative reviews.)
http://www.amazon.com/AT-T-Tilt-Sma...sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=wireless&qid=1202780428&sr=8-1
Just send emails to HTC's CEO and fill up his inbox, that'll piss him off.
[email protected]
I've emailed him twice and actually gotten responses. Let him know!
Tony
The title says it all. Maybe one of the board members can play with it and create something worth installing.
you can download it here
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=79f19684-f862-4e02-a2b0-0003b4565f34&DisplayLang=en
Finally! Been waiting on this forever! Also, Live Anywhere which they promised a while back!
I do a monthly geek dinner thing where a microsoft person or two come in. One of them is really into the mobile scene. I'll ask her what she has heard/seen so far the next time I see her.
Kyle
installed and working on Diamond rom V4. it is excellent like a remote control for your pc. i am very happy with it i can see many many things will be done with this. exciting stuff.
Chem E Sam said:
installed and working on Diamond rom V4. it is excellent like a remote control for your pc. i am very happy with it i can see many many things will be done with this. exciting stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you post it please ?im on my pda atm
edit * NVM got it
Sounds Sweet!
I'll check it out...
Vista Required
Nogo on XP Pro. Requirements call for Vista or Server 2008. Might be a service driver that could be used from Vista in XP, but not sure about that.
Awesome. I have been waiting for this for some time now. It would be nice for everyone if there was mirror link posted. Also if the mods could move this to the correct section it would be great too, such as the software section.
**Edit
Thanks guys
***Another Edit
Here is a mirror for everyone
odic said:
Nogo on XP Pro. Requirements call for Vista or Server 2008. Might be a service driver that could be used from Vista in XP, but not sure about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SideShow is a feature of Windows Vista and it has not been, and probably will never be, ported to older Windows versions due to underlying differences in the operating systems, driver models etc.
Such a shame this is only bluetooth, other sideshow devices utlise wifi.
Still cool to finally get it though.
ladytoast said:
Such a shame this is only bluetooth, other sideshow devices utlise wifi.
Still cool to finally get it though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's still in its very early stages, so it may eventually get there and offer wifi support (Salling Clicker does it so MS definitely should be able to get it running).
I couldn't get it to work on my pavillion laptop (dv9700t)...it keeps saying 'can't connect' from the software. Yet, I can see it briefly connect then disconnect on my laptop. Oh well, back to salling clicker....
Windows SideShow for Windows Mobile Beta: Screenshot Tour
Hey Guys. This group has always had the most intense members of the Windows Mobile community and been a place where I can always count on learning something new.
I wanted to make sure everyone knew about the Windows SideShow for Windows Mobile Beta.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...84-f862-4e02-a2b0-0003b4565f34&displaylang=en
I have a screenshot tour if anyone is interested:
http://www.cjcraft.com/blog/2008/06...ndowsMobileBetaSeeTheScreenshotTourFirst.aspx
My goal to make something that people get a feel for the product and its possibilities.
--
Thanks,
Chris Craft
Windows Mobile Device Application Development MVP
http://www.cjcraft.com/blog/
InGeNeTiCs said:
I couldn't get it to work on my pavillion laptop (dv9700t)...it keeps saying 'can't connect' from the software. Yet, I can see it briefly connect then disconnect on my laptop. Oh well, back to salling clicker....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make sure u follow the installation instruction carefully, and keep trying to connect afterwards. took me a while to get it to work, but it's definitely blows salling clicker out of the water, being it's at a preview stage.... sure has potentials
CJCraft said:
Hey Guys. This group has always had the most intense members of the Windows Mobile community and been a place where I can always count on learning something new.
I wanted to make sure everyone knew about the Windows SideShow for Windows Mobile Beta.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a really neat idea in theory. I just found out about this the other day when Woot had a picture frame for sale that supported SideShow.
I found it much more useful for a device like a dumb terminal picture frame. It could allow you not to just show pictures, but overlay the weather, RSS feeds, e-mail notifications, and even stream music to the frame.
Although I like that it is being supported for WM devices, I don't really see too many advantages of the current widgets/gadgets/whatever that are out there.
A WM phone is already a powerful device that has outlook, media player, office mobile (including power point) that having to stream these as a sideshow to the device seems redundant. I'm sure some plugins will come around that are very innovative, but I don't really see the use other than novelty right now.
The advantage I see would be for developers to write just a sideshow app that can run on many platforms and not just tied to vista.
For instance a sideshow app for Windows Media Center that would allow you to turn your phone into a powerful remote for WMC.
I don't know if 2008 supports sideshow yet, but if they add it in I could see a HUGE benefit of having a server monitoring sideshow that I could connect to remotely. I could keep track of servers remotely and perform some common tasks via the sideshow.
These are the types of things I'd like to see eventually.
This was posted in the general thread, but I see this one is more active so I will post my comments here as well.
This is a really neat idea in theory. I just found out about this the other day when Woot had a picture frame for sale that supported SideShow.
I found it much more useful for a device like a dumb terminal picture frame. It could allow you not to just show pictures, but overlay the weather, RSS feeds, e-mail notifications, and even stream music to the frame.
Although I like that it is being supported for WM devices, I don't really see too many advantages of the current widgets/gadgets/whatever that are out there.
A WM phone is already a powerful device that has outlook, media player, office mobile (including power point) that having to stream these as a sideshow to the device seems redundant. I'm sure some plugins will come around that are very innovative, but I don't really see the use other than novelty right now.
The advantage I see would be for developers to write just a sideshow app that can run on many platforms and not just tied to vista.
For instance a sideshow app for Windows Media Center that would allow you to turn your phone into a powerful remote for WMC.
I don't know if 2008 supports sideshow yet, but if they add it in I could see a HUGE benefit of having a server monitoring sideshow that I could connect to remotely. I could keep track of servers remotely and perform some common tasks via the sideshow.
These are the types of things I'd like to see eventually.
That had to posted by an M$ employee
This is cool
I am giving this a shot on my Tilt with the L26 diamond v5 rom. I paired my phone with my Vista business pc and connected right away. Some of the other gadgets you can install are pointless. Gmail viewer? LOL. All you can do is view the mail... so you have to walk back over to the pc and check it anyway. The media player gadget is the best... I could actually see me using this for a party or social gathering where I can control all the tunes from my phone. I COULD NOT get the picture viewer to work!!! When I downloaded the .msi file I got the error "This application is not a valid install fie" or something of that nature.
Any ideas on that one?
i still can't get the bloody thing to work.
in my experiance of it you need to be using microsoft bluetooth stack/drivers, widcom broadcom, toshiba or blueseil dont work, which is a pain because windows bluetooth drivers are very limited as to what else they do, if anybody gets this working with bluesoeil drivers let me know
Background:
All iphone users know how terrible itune when it came to file and audio management on your iphone. When I am Googling for beter pc suit than itune for my friends iphone, I found out this.
Same soft available for WM as well.
I think original version of software is Chinese. When you change language to English, some of background images remain with Chinese. It doesn't have any impact on.
Hope this will useful to someone
It has more options than Activesync and Mymobiler
Check this out and send your comments
Link:http://www.ipcsuite.com/
It looks like it has a lot of useful features. But it does not recognize my phone.
With Activesync installed on my XP SP2 system, my phone works fine.
This software requires Activesync, and the phone to be connected and AS to recognize it.
But even with that, the software says "Disconnected" when I plug my phone in.
I have tried on four different systems here at work.
Apparently, my firewall was blocking all contact with the update server. It said very bad things. Not sure why.
So I am now running the application in a virtual machine here at work (IT Admin for a living), and allowed it to update only to that machine.
It is running now, and is almost entirely in English. It sees the phone. Time to play with the software.
hehe the software Chinese version come along with lot of AD link lead to pages.
the functions are great and I found it the best group SMS tool, much better than those PPC apps.
If there are more than 600 in group, the apps on PPC will keep crashs, but I did it with this soft.
This doesn't work on my Vista PC.
Hi everyone,
I have started looking into using a PS3 controller as an input device for my Diamond.
I want the adility to play games using a PS3 contoller over bluetooth, as the device doesnt have good controls for games. I have managed to get my ps3 controller to work over usb on my pc Next step is to get my controller over blueooth to my pc, I will keep updating this thread
I have found some useful web pages
how get input from PS3 controller over wired with source code: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mcpp/wiredps3axis.aspx
How to get ps3 controller over bluetooth on linux with source code: http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=199246
I dont really know what Im doing when it comes to wm6 and making a device work with wm6. I dont know much about the bluetooth stack either. I will probably need to write some sort of a driver at some point. To catch the input from the controller and convert it into a command on my diamond.
So any help of any kind would be great. Any problems you can see with my plan?
Sorry not sure if this is the right place to put this thread so move if you want.
Well, that didnt go to well.
The controller is appearing in my bluetooth manager on my pc, but i cant connect or query its services.
Now Im really stuck
if someone could help me get some trace data from the connection, or enlighten me to a way of getting some information out of the bluetooth stack.
Thx,
Chris McNamee
Assuming that the PS3 doesn't use a proprietary communication protocol that can't be reverse engineered, this should be possible.
However, I suggest looking here first to get source and discussion re use of the Wii mote on the PPC first.
Then re implement the PS3's control mechanisms.
http://www.codeplex.com/WiiMoB/Thread/View.aspx?ThreadId=10953
There's further discussions here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=335973
and here:
http://forums.neurostechnology.com/index.php?topic=9759.0
to get you started. Interesting project though!
V
Thanks
Cheers vijay555,
I will have a look as soon as I get a bit of free time
Hmmmm
Thanks vijay555
There is some excellent information on some of those links, but will need to get a wiimote. I cant tell if the drivers have been loaded by the wm6
but i was wondering, how does wm6 know which device its talking to over bluetooth?
It must be via a device serial or something, but what is the term for it?
like i said im a bit of a novice
Yeah, now we're cooking
I found an alternative, the wii remote/classic controller it uses bluetooth and there is lots of source code and examples
http://sourceforge.net/projects/wiiuse/
it comes with a libaray for windows and an example of how to use
all the source code is there to downloading
Now all I need is a wii remote
and to get it going on my pc, then port to PPC.
Then I need to write a frontend to control what action on the mote do on my PPC. Should be easy
sounds like an interesting project, keep us updated!
It has begun
Yesterday I bought a wii controller and got it talking to my pc using the wiiuse.
Wiiuse is open source and it has code already to interpret the controls of the wiimote, including the ir sensing, accelerometer, wii nunchuck, and the classic controller. Which we be very useful, as I dont need to work it out myself.
Also I have got wiimob, kind of working. It uses a library called bluetools to controller the bluetooth (which is pay for, so will need to find/make an alternative at some point but works for now). I have got to the point the author got stuck at (comment in the code says he never got passed), so Im kind of on my own now. Wiimob can search for wiimotes, then search it services but fails when trying to get a stream to the service. Im pretty sure this is because the RemoteService class returned by the bluetools doesnt have the correct GUID, which cause the connection to be refused by the remote device as it doesnt exist.
It is all looking very promising at the min
next steps:
get the bluetools talking to a service on my pc and see if I get the right GUID to determine if its the bluetools code which is failing to get the GUID or the wiimote not giving its GUID for the service.
Will post back with any news
Interesting
It seems that the library doesnt want to connect to a human input device, it wont connect to the wiimote or my bluetooth keyboard. It does seem to work to other services like Obex file transfer.
Hmmm, what?
Guess I found try and find some samples of people using this library and human input device or find a new library. Im not really up for trying to create my own at the min, as it would take a while
O dear
Its really not going well, either my knowledge isnt up to the job or it cant be done.
I have tried hard, but windows mobile is missing the all important hid.dll driver to get a listing of pair bluetooth hid devices so i can open a handle to the device. So I then looked into opening a connection myself and bypassing the hid driver, but from what I can work out it needs two l2cap connections open to the device, 1 on channel 11 for writing and another on channel 13 for reading data. But windows mobile doesnt have an api to access the l2cap layer of the bluetooth stack, the layer down (hci) can be extended but this would take along time to implement as I would then have to implement the l2cap layer myself.
Its turning into a losing battle, I really now doubting that I can do this.
The only idea left is how does the windows mobile use a bluetooth keybaord, does it use a generic driver which it extends or is it complete in its self. If it does uses a generic driver, i need to find some doc.
If anyone has any advice about how to implement l2cap connection or any thing about connecting to a hid device in windows mobile I would be very greatful.
Thanks guys,
But I think this is dead, like many other projects to try and get windows mobile work with a wiimote.
Things have taken a turn
Yeah,
A very helpful guy pointed me down a new line of throught,
I now beleive that I maybe able to do this
well, i need the win ce 6 platform builder
i owuld like to help but not got a clue about these things! keep up the good work
Well, any suggestions
Hmm, the wiimote uses bluetooth hid profile to communicate which talks over a l2cap connection. HID profile uses the universal serial bus (USB) architecture but send data over bluetooth
http://www.bluetooth.com/Bluetooth/Technology/Works/HID.htm
I have two options from what i can see
1. Well, I have found source for a sample keybaord device which I could rip off but cant get it to compile
2. Gain access to the L2CAP layer of the bluetooth stack by extending the stack with some of my own code. Then create my own connections to the wiimote and start sending and receiving reports to the device.
Any suggestions on the best approach?
both will take alot of time either way.
Hmm,
The L2CAP sample code requires some of the core dll for wm. These include coredll.dll and the btd.dll
during the build linking fails as I dont have the lib files, to get the lib files I need to build the os, as these files can change depending on the options specified during the build. I dont really want to do this, as it will limit the software to only one os version of wm, the one i build against.
Next question is can I do a library call and get the function points at runtime?
Well I think I may have to ask on a new thread. I hope so, as it would over come alot of problems, and it wouldnt limit the code to certain versions of the wm
Opened my mouth too quick
I using the wince 6 sdk,
But windows mobile 6 is based on wince 5. Hopefull I will have more luck with the wince 5 sdk
Well, that went a bit better.
Ive got pasted all compiling errors with the sample code I found. I have all the needed include and library files.
When trying to link the compiled code I get a single error now.
1>Compiling...
1>l2capdev.cpp
1>Compiling resources...
1>Microsoft (R) Windows (R) Resource Compiler Version 6.0.5724.0
1>Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
1>Linking...
1>uafxcw.lib(dllmodul.obj) : error LNK2005: DllMain already defined in l2capdev.obj
1> Creating library Windows Mobile 6 Professional SDK (ARMV4I)\Release/l2capdev.lib and object Windows Mobile 6 Professional SDK (ARMV4I)\Release/l2capdev.exp
1>Windows Mobile 6 Professional SDK (ARMV4I)\Release/l2capdev.dll : fatal error LNK1169: one or more multiply defined symbols found
1>Build log was saved at "file://d:\Documents and Settings\Chris\My Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\Bak new l2capdev\l2capdev\Windows Mobile 6 Professional SDK (ARMV4I)\Release\BuildLog.htm"
1>l2capdev - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)
========== Rebuild All: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 skipped ==========
If anyone can help with this error it would be great.
Sorry guys, but Ive got alot of coursework on at the min.
So it might go a bit quite on here for a bit, but done worry.
Im still working on this when I get some spare time, but I dont have much at the min
Any progress on this mcnamee?
No luck
Well, I have given up on this for awhile.
I would like to start working on this project again when I have some more time.
But for now this is dead.
Chris McNamee
If you are interested in alternatives to the MSI or Chainpus BGP100 bluetooth gamepad, google search "modded by bacteria" go to the "work in progress" section of his forums, and search for the thread "Re-housed Bluetooth controller". The creator of the site, Bacteria, will be transplanting the innards of the BGP100 into an SNES controller. Previously, he has transplanted it into a PS1 controller. It seams feasible to DIY into almost any controller housing.
PS3 for EVO?
I'd love to use the bluetooth connectivity for my Evo and playing ROMs. any ideas?
Apologies if this has been mentioned...
Hello,
I've got HTC HD7 with 02 branding and am running Win XP.
I am desperately trying to access phone's internal memory over USB with no success. I would like to shift data so like used to do it on my old HTC Diamond. And I dont want to use the Zune crap, cause it only allows shifting media files like music and videos...
I mean, WM6, 6.1 and 6.5 had a sperate option (ActiveSync, Memory Access or Internet Sharing) when plugging device to the computer.
Is there any similar app or built-in functionality to do so???
Thanks and regards,
schorschy
schorschy said:
Hello,
I've got HTC HD7 with 02 branding and am running Win XP.
I am desperately trying to access phone's internal memory over USB with no success. I would like to shift data so like used to do it on my old HTC Diamond. And I dont want to use the Zune crap, cause it only allows shifting media files like music and videos...
I mean, WM6, 6.1 and 6.5 had a sperate option (ActiveSync, Memory Access or Internet Sharing) when plugging device to the computer.
Is there any similar app or built-in functionality to do so???
Thanks and regards,
schorschy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope, zunes the only option right now.
i really do not understand microsoft... they announced wm7 as something absolutely groundbreaking and there are many functionalities i am missing even in comparison to wm6!!!
i mean, okay, i somehow can understand they removed activesync... but memory access via usb?! or wm6 to wm7 data migration?! i mean, these are basic functionalities every mobile device MUST have...
it really makes me think over about giving back my device...
schorschy said:
i mean, okay, i somehow can understand they removed activesync... but memory access via usb?! or wm6 to wm7 data migration?! i mean, these are basic functionalities every mobile device MUST have...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally disagree, memory access by USB is not a must have function to sell a mobile phone by any means.
What data are you trying to put onto the device that won't be covered by Zune or a Windows Live/Google account etc?
i just think using pda as a memory stick is a very useful functionality... for example, shifting pdf's when being offline or similar...
Microsoft have taken the approach that in order to produce a stable platform, the file system needs to be locked down so that people cannot "tinker" with it. Its a sensible approach if you think about it from that perspective.
If this was such a big thing for you, why didn`t you check before purchasing?
schorschy said:
Hello,
I've got HTC HD7 with 02 branding and am running Win XP.
I am desperately trying to access phone's internal memory over USB with no success. I would like to shift data so like used to do it on my old HTC Diamond. And I dont want to use the Zune crap, cause it only allows shifting media files like music and videos...
I mean, WM6, 6.1 and 6.5 had a sperate option (ActiveSync, Memory Access or Internet Sharing) when plugging device to the computer.
Is there any similar app or built-in functionality to do so???
Thanks and regards,
schorschy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, to each its own, some users TOTALLY DISAGREE with you, while I'm just like you thinking that a new system should be inclusive to all features and capabilities provided by the prior one.
Plus, tinkering with system file? well an 8 GB or 16 GB of storage SHOULD be used the way i Like it, not Locked out as some suggests, at least look ROM files, leaving the rest for the user preferences.
Final word, I TOTALLY AGREE with you about your complaint.
Will
Willy318is said:
Well, to each its own, some users TOTALLY DISAGREE with you, while I'm just like you thinking that a new system should be inclusive to all features and capabilities provided by the prior one.
Plus, tinkering with system file? well an 8 GB or 16 GB of storage SHOULD be used the way i Like it, not Locked out as some suggests, at least look ROM files, leaving the rest for the user preferences.
Final word, I TOTALLY AGREE with you about your complaint.
Will
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now now Will,
I just have trouble grasping this type of thread - this was all known before launch and before devices were available to buy. But hey, whatever.
I've just bought a HD7 too, and I have to admit to being absolutely gutted. Admittedly I didn't do too much research into it before getting it but I just assumed that being a windows mobile device it would be reasonably friendly with windows on my desktop computer. I've been tinkering with zunes to get my old pictures and music onto the phone but it's just ghastly.
Chances are I'll ditch it and get an android methinks. Real shame because I used to love my old HD2.
admittedly, i didn't research on this phone before getting it... just because i trusted the plattform - wm6.1 and wm6.5 were stable enough... however, after getting the device, i must say it's nothing for "tweaker", but a pure media consumption system. and thats why i hate it - fancy layers, nice optics, easy-to-use apps, but... zero funtionality. using it makes me feel i'm a little schoolgirl wearing a pink t-shirt.
gonna give it back and get hd2. the lesson i learnt for the second time (after getting fresh-presented htc diamond touch in 2008):
it's better to have an older device with mature os and application landscape than to have the latest device with lots of "fancy" stuff!
never do the same mistake again... thanks to all for replies and warm greetings from germany!
For goodness sake, it was so well trailed that MS would make WP7 a locked down system it would have taken hardly any research to find it out. I wish I had the cash to purchase £500 smartphones with little or no research up front. There is nothing wrong with wanting to tweak etc. but to do so, get an android device, a WM6.5 device, a jail broken iPhone or wait until someone "jailbreaks" WP7. Sheesh it's like saying "OMG I bought a Toyota and am so disappointed to find it isn't a Ford"
adesonic said:
For goodness sake, it was so well trailed that MS would make WP7 a locked down system it would have taken hardly any research to find it out. I wish I had the cash to purchase £500 smartphones with little or no research up front. There is nothing wrong with wanting to tweak etc. but to do so, get an android device, a WM6.5 device, a jail broken iPhone or wait until someone "jailbreaks" WP7. Sheesh it's like saying "OMG I bought a Toyota and am so disappointed to find it isn't a Ford"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Also there is a reason the product is called Windows Phone 7 and not Windows Mobile 7. I noticed its referred to as Windows Mobile 7 a lot in this thread.
Am I mistaken or didn't MS say they would still maintain updates to the old wm6.5 os as a side project?
also how can anyone say zune is ghastly? its easily the best media organizer there is 100times better than itunes and as for android i had a desire and the syncing was so basic and naff. Another good thing with zune is the music organization, look at itunes and getting album art it is dire. Zune on the other hand is easy as pie and if you cant find it in the library even a 5yo could use the manual edit tool. With Zune everything has the right name album art etc my itunes (i have a mac mini in my living room connected to my tv) is about 80% the rest is to messy to be bothered with. I found when syncing with my desire hardly any artwork came through and the media folders where dire to navigate (this is a biggie as i use it to play music in my car)
I think the thing here is as stated before, the facts are out there this phone is what it is. It is not a win 6.5 update it is a separate mobile os. The features it has are are far beyond anything else out there but if you want something that does something else then buy something else. You don't buy a toaster to fry chips.
+1 On the Zune is excellent front....awesome software
lumpaywk said:
You don't buy a toaster to fry chips.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a late night half-drunk/half-stoned experiment just begging to be done... where's my toaster?