Database Develop

Kaiser GPS Problem workaround

Some people might experience with certain GPS software.
If you look at the log of the NMEA log, you might realize that it burst out every 6-10 seconds. After that you might wait for another 6-10 sec, which is unusable for real-time navigation. If you happen to meet this trouble.
I have a way which could allow normal update intervals.
Install GPSGATE, it create virtual GPS COM PORT and re-route the NMEA data.
Install GPSGATE, just use the default settings, it create the virtual GPS port as COM 1.
Just use GPS software on COM 1 .
software url: http://franson.com/gpsgate/

Can anyone confirm this works? Ive noticed my GPS works the same way. Im using the Kaiser / TyTn II with Mapking and i notice that i also get my signbal ins bursts and NOT a smooth stream. Anyone know if this will resolve the problem?

What is the update intervals with GPSGATE ?
Do you mean GPSGATE must be run concurrently with the other software TomTom 6 for example ?
It would be a good workaround for people who encounter this GPS issue.

could this be some delicious spam?

How exactly does the OP propose that a user space application can make the hardware produce data in a smoother stream?
I call BS.

seems like BS to me too...Probably some spam Can anyone who has tried it out verify if it really works or not?..
THKS

You don't need to use other GPS software concurrently,
just use the GPSGATE and mapking will do.
Remember you have to modify the settings in mapking to use the virtual com port ( com1 default)
Not SPAM

I am not sure, this is BS.
If I am not mistaken the GPSGATE will act like a "router" (middle man) between the GPS hardware (Internal GPS of Kaiser) and the application (TomTom).
If the GPS hardware is faulty (having problem) with bursting data every 10 seconds, then the GPSGATE will also receive bursting data every 10 seconds.
So, that's useless as long as the problem is in the GPS hardware.

Gpsproxy should be able to do the same thing and its free.

GPSGate is a splitter, allowing using more than one application with the same NMEA stream. It creates another virtual GPS COM port, that's it.
GPS on the Kaiser works great and I'm on SatNav business. Aquisition time is fast, reception is great and update ratio is every 1 sec, just like any other civilian GPS receiver. GPS is NOT evaluated by the refresh rate you see on the screen, other software will give you other rate, try OZI Explorer for instance. I used Kaiser with TomTom, Destinator & Ozi, all works really great even comparing to Sirf III GPS chipset embedded devices such as Eten X500, HTC Artemis and Asus 535.
Last, Microsoft has included the same functionality of GPS Gate in WM5 and WM6 under settings. You do not need to install any additional SW, you can send "trueman 12345" (the guy who opened this thread with 2 posts history) your money directly.

Thanks RonenB for this very usefull precision !

Thanks as well RonenB, However, it does not solve the odd occasional pause in the data that we're seeing. Is this hardware or software that needs help in the Kaiser?

Actually I'm not so sure we have defined the problem accurately here.
Examining the signal from the GPS shows some interesting info.
1
A satellite is locked onto for perhaps only one or two seconds at a time.
2
Several satellites can achieve a lock but out of these a few will be lost every few seconds
3
New satellites are also acquired every few seconds.
The Result
If you are in the presence of many satellites then there is a constant dropping of some and locking onto others. This leads to no problems as there are always a few satellites locked on and data flow is smooth.
BUT
If you are in the presence of only say 2 or 3 satellites it is possible to drop these two or three (as indicated above), but no new ones are acquired. In this situation there will be a few seconds before the first 2 or 3 lock in again. Result a gap in data flow to your GPS software.
Meaning
The Internal GPS is not polling data in bursts. In other words you cannot turn up the frequency of data polling (possible baud rate adjustment maybe). The data is continuous but if there are too few satellites then there can be gaps where it drops some satellites and does not lock others.
There are various applications that can show this behaviour graphically but tomtom shows it well on the satellite view screen.
Compared to external GPS satellite locks this works in a strangely different way. You will see the bars jumping around from a lock on this one to that one continuously. Only a problem as I say when there are only a few satellites in sight.
Mike
PS - I cannot see the advantage of GPSGate in this particular situation as it is due to momentary periods when no satellite is detected.
Having said all of the above, I find the GPS perfectly adequate for general use. Perhaps if I need spot on plotting data then it might be weak. However if I need that unusual level of accuracy I would not use my phone to do it. I regularly use mine in place of my car's tomtom and the results are on a par with the full tomtom device.

mikechannon said:
Actually I'm not so sure we have defined the problem accurately here.
Examining the signal from the GPS shows some interesting info.
1
A satellite is locked onto for perhaps only one or two seconds at a time.
2
Several satellites can achieve a lock but out of these a few will be lost every few seconds
3
New satellites are also acquired every few seconds.
The Result
If you are in the presence of many satellites then there is a constant dropping of some and locking onto others. This leads to no problems as there are always a few satellites locked on and data flow is smooth.
BUT
If you are in the presence of only say 2 or 3 satellites it is possible to drop these two or three (as indicated above), but no new ones are acquired. In this situation there will be a few seconds before the first 2 or 3 lock in again. Result a gap in data flow to your GPS software.
Meaning
The Internal GPS is not polling data in bursts. In other words you cannot turn up the frequency of data polling (possible baud rate adjustment maybe). The data is continuous but if there are too few satellites then there can be gaps where it drops some satellites and does not lock others.
There are various applications that can show this behaviour graphically but tomtom shows it well on the satellite view screen.
Compared to external GPS satellite locks this works in a strangely different way. You will see the bars jumping around from a lock on this one to that one continuously. Only a problem as I say when there are only a few satellites in sight.
Mike
PS - I cannot see the advantage of GPSGate in this particular situation as it is due to momentary periods when no satellite is detected.
Having said all of the above, I find the GPS perfectly adequate for general use. Perhaps if I need spot on plotting data then it might be weak. However if I need that unusual level of accuracy I would not use my phone to do it. I regularly use mine in place of my car's tomtom and the results are on a par with the full tomtom device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I believe that it is time to explain a little bit how GPS works.
The GPS satellites are transmitting their position rapidly. However, due to homeland security issues (US did not want to allow anyone to place a receiver in a jet fighter or a missile) civilian GPS receivers are limited to aquire position every 1 second only. This is not a problem for a normal user even for civilian aviation. Thus, when you look at the NMEA stream, you will see it coming in bursts and not as rapid as normal data. Since GPS strings are quite short, it is good enough for any navigation system.
Number of satellites aquired is not an indicator to anything. Like any RF system, the engineers can tweak the noise level so that it will look to you that you are receiving X amount of satellites, the signal is on the air anyway.
What is important though is the position of the satellites. the closer to the horizon, the less useable that satellite is to calulate the position. Therefore receivers are taking the best located satellites into account and ignoring others even of they are recieved. Valid fix (position) is aquired by at least 3 satellites for 2D (X,Y) and 4 or more for 3D (with elevation).
Result is that as a user, you should not bother too much looking into the stream or number of sattelite in use as long as you can get a valid fix. The important and effective elements are hidden from the user: number of transsistors in the GPS chipset, quality of antenna etc. User can just evaluate the overall preformance.
As I wrote above, the Kaiser integrated GPS surprised me for superb preformance. I just arrived this week from Israel to Germany and could get a fix as soon as I left the underground garage. I did not loose GPS signal even once since I started using the device. That includes forests and dence city centers. Real good job by HTC here.

This is the problem i am facing:
Im using MapKing with Hong Kong 2007 maps. Getting a fix is no problem. I can normally get a fix in about 10-15 secs. When i check the status page I will normally have a connection to 5-7 satelites.
The problem is that the icon does not move smoothly when i travel. In map king your position on the map is represented by a small car icon. It jumps from location to location every 3-5 secs but does not smoothly move along. Can someone please tell me if this is the case with tomtom as well? Maybe it a problem with mapking?

phame said:
This is the problem i am facing:
Im using MapKing with Hong Kong 2007 maps. Getting a fix is no problem. I can normally get a fix in about 10-15 secs. When i check the status page I will normally have a connection to 5-7 satelites.
The problem is that the icon does not move smoothly when i travel. In map king your position on the map is represented by a small car icon. It jumps from location to location every 3-5 secs but does not smoothly move along. Can someone please tell me if this is the case with tomtom as well? Maybe it a problem with mapking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a Mapking problem and you should contact their support. Does not happen to me with Destinator, TomTOm and Ozi.

Ok, there is no point to argue, if you really find yourself having problem with GPS update lag, then give it a try. No harm indeed...
In HK, there are people the validity of the work around. GPS proxy might also work as well( i think it is the same principal) just i wasn't aware of this good free software before hand..
http://www11.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=5329804&extra=page=2
(u need an account and some chinese word knowledge)

trueman12345 said:
Ok, there is no point to argue, if you really find yourself having problem with GPS update lag, then give it a try. No harm indeed...
In HK, there are people the validity of the work around. GPS proxy might also work as well( i think it is the same principal) just i wasn't aware of this good free software before hand..
http://www11.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=5329804&extra=page=2
(u need an account and some chinese word knowledge)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite agree it's worth trying, and the application has other uses too.
Mike

FYI: I got GPS to work easily by installing GPSViewer, opening COM4/4800baud and getting located. After that, using Google Maps was a breeze; total "trick" took me about 1 minute to figure out which is way quicker than some other workarounds on the internet.

I was driving with iGuidance for about 1 hour this morning and I'm seeing different behavoir for this bug. iGuidance also has an excellent GPS signal viewer, mine was showing 8 out of 8 sattellites, all green, all the time (they turn red when not receiving signal from a sat). My map was moving about once per second or slightly faster. The program only paused once after about 30 minutes into the trip, for about 20-30 seconds. The iGuidance program's moving arrow's color also changes color based on signal quality of the combined sattelite lock, Green for good 3D mapping, Yellow for 2D when there are minimal sats for navigating, and Red for no signal data. During this pause the arrow went Red to indicate no data.
This seems like a bug to me.

Kaiser GPS Enhancement Guide...

I see a lot of people with GPS problems these days & most of them have to do with not getting a fast enough satelite fix. There are several things you can & should do to enhance you Kaiser & it's GPS capabilities.
Firstly, use HTC's QuickGPS. Your device has to locate, communicate with & track numerous navigation satelites to get a fix that can be used by your navigation software of choice. Typically your device will need this information from 3 - 5 satelites, however there can be as many as 14. Each Satelite has Almanac information, this information contains suck as the current location, speed & Orbitital Patterns. This is where QuickGPS comes in. QuickGPS downloads this almanc information from servers & helps to guide your device the most appropriate satelites in your area. downloading the QuickGPS data at least once a week is key to maintaining quick satelite locks with your device.
Second, I see a lot of people using the HCT GPS Tool from the Polaris. WHY? Sure it can help to jump start your GPS, but there are other more functional programs out there that accomplish the same thing & much more.
Enter GPSGate! GPSGate is a light weight GPS utility that can be installed on a storage card & I could not live without. It is easy to use, it configures itself, it WILL jumpstart your GPS & allows you to do some amazing things otherwise impossible. GPSGate is a semi-commercial software developed by Franson. A trial version is free to download & the only difference between the free & the pay version is that the pay version allows you to Connect to GpsGate Server or GpsGate.com for sharing or logging over the Internet. GPSGate will help speed things up for you & also do many other things. Whenever you launch GPSGate, you GPS chip is immediately initialized & goes to work. Starting GPSGate before your navigation software or selecting the auto-start function gets your device working on connecting to the satelites NOW!
Ever tried running TomTom & Live Search at the same time? Usually it won't work & sometimes will freeze your device. Not when you use GPSGate. GPSGate will not only start your GPS faster, but it will also let you share the Kaiser GPS among several applications all at once.
GPSGate will let you use external GPS devices with your Kaiser & it will also allow you to use your Kaiser as a GPS receiver for other devices such as laptops, over A/S or Bluetooth connections. In fact, you can share the Kaiser's GPS over a network, ActiveSync, Bluetooth or HTTP. It will also allow you to Multiplex and split NMEA streams. GPSGate will communicate fast & flawlessly with a simultaneous multitude of programs. It will also allow you to start & stop your GPS Session on the fly.
I use TomTom, but I frequently use Live Search at the same time because POI's are always changing & new ones are added. Live Search is much better @ finding New things like restraunts & allows me to add them into my contacts & then select them thru TomTom all without having to start & stop each program allowing me to keep my focus on the road where it belongs.
Just download & install the cab, launch the program, follow the 2-steps on the screen & you're done.
Most of the important functionality is intact without licensing, (I think everything except the server based tracking & logging)
Overview:
Share your position online using GpsGate.com
Track your friends on a map, see a remote person in Google Earth and more...
Connecting Google Earth to GpsGate!
Display your GPS position in Google Earth.
Connecting Google Maps to GpsGate!
Display your GPS position in Google Maps.
Sharing GPS data over a network and between computers
How to share GPS data using TCP/IP, UDP, Bluetooth or COM ports.
NMEA Multiplexer - combine multiple inputs
How to merge and split several NMEA channels.
Run GpsGate as a Service
How to set up GpsGate to run as a NT service.
How to run multiple instances of GpsGate, close input when no output is used, block writing and reading, and more...
NO, I do NOT work for or endorse Franson! I just really find this program helpful & very useful.
GPSGate: http://rapidshare.com/files/95732296/GPSGate.rar
QuickGPS: http://rapidshare.com/files/69959229/HTC_QuickGPS.CAB

spent this whole time talking about GPSGATE but dont even post a way to find more info or even get it......

ChInEsE ChIcKeN said:
spent this whole time talking about GPSGATE but dont even post a way to find more info or even get it......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL are you serious....thanks I needed this
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=GPSgate&btnG=Google+Search
Not that hard to find.
Google is your friend

I don't understand why this is useful. The GPS is already sharable in the Kaiser. I've run multiple GPS apps at the same time with no problems. The only use for GPS gate that I can see is uploading your position to their server.

tdusen said:
I don't understand why this is useful. The GPS is already sharable in the Kaiser. I've run multiple GPS apps at the same time with no problems. The only use for GPS gate that I can see is uploading your position to their server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you use iGuidance 4 and are using a 6.1 rom, GPSGate is not only useful, it is required in order for your map to update. Others have reported that GPSPROXY will also work, and it is free.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I have been playing with 6.1 ROMS for two weeks and was about to give up because I could not get GPS to work properly (yes I tried everything that was recommended!) I was about to give up and revert back to a 6 ROM... and like a pheonix from the ashes I saw your post. Franson GpsGate did the trick. My GPS is working better than ever, heck my phone is working better than ever, many thanks to Sleuth and to you for fixing that last very frustrating and important glitch.

crispyj said:
If you use iGuidance 4 and are using a 6.1 rom, GPSGate is not only useful, it is required in order for your map to update. Others have reported that GPSPROXY will also work, and it is free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then I'm just lucky I guess. I'm running 6.1 and I have Beeline GPS, TomTom and Live Search all running just fine. No GPS Gate or GPSProxy loaded.

tdusen said:
Then I'm just lucky I guess. I'm running 6.1 and I have Beeline GPS, TomTom and Live Search all running just fine. No GPS Gate or GPSProxy loaded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are lucky. Many Tilt users are, but for the unfortunate, for what ever reason, we have GPS issues and this solved it at least for me. But I am curious... if you GPS is operating so wonderfully... why are you in this thread?

the same reason I am in here probably, to see what everyone is talking about and to see what kinds of GPS issues are out there that people are having. I know mine is working just fine but still checking out what is going on in case I run in to issues or see someone with issues that I might be able to help out or point them to this thread.

I read every GPS thread. I'm always on the look out for some way to disable Static Navigation. So far, no luck.
My original post in this thread was to ask what does this software give me that I don't already have. The stock GPS is intended to be sharable. If it does work like it's supposed then no proxy software should be necessary.

GPS quality varies widely from one Tilt to the next...
I have 2 Tilts and I can tell you one of them gets almost instant GPS lock while the other one struggles to ever get a lock.
I'm awaiting a second warranty replacement from at&t as the first one they sent has crappy GPS also. I've already warned them that they will continue shipping me Tilts under warranty until I get a replacement that works as well as my 2nd Tilt does.
One thing I like about GPS Gate is the Tray Icon. It would be better if the tap & hold menu had an option to toggle the GPS on/off.
It is nice that you can also use it to provide GPS feed to your laptop if you have such a need.

tdusen said:
I read every GPS thread. I'm always on the look out for some way to disable Static Navigation. So far, no luck.
My original post in this thread was to ask what does this software give me that I don't already have. The stock GPS is intended to be sharable. If it does work like it's supposed then no proxy software should be necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More than anything I was bored & wanted to write (Got my replacement & had time to kill while Sec. Unlocking, Flashing, etc.), lol.
Really I'd see a lot of Noobies complaining about not being able to use multiple proggies & having issues giving gps a quick jump. This post was really just kinda intended for the noobie that doesn't have the skill or patience to set up multiple port connections for the GPS. With GPSGate they don't have to. It all wil run thru the same V-port without them having to do any changes manually. I find that using GPSGate there is NO DELAY in the new application receiving the GPS data. Before GPSGate, every time I switched programs my device would hang for a bit. I also noticed a lot of people using or including HTC GPS Tools in roms for a jump start of the GPS device, & I figured why not something more useful.
+ I know that while a lot of us know about these programs, not many new guys do & when I'm out & about, occasionally I like to use my laptop W/ Streets & trips because all my customer routes are in there. This way I can use it for navigation & construction updates on long drive days. Of course I know not everyone has a nerd mobile like my truck with a PPC & Laptop Mount cradle, lol...but you never know.

Do these proxies keep the GPS receiver running all the time? what does that do to battery life?

It does what you TELL IT to do. You can start or stop the GPS on the fly. OF COURSE if you leave the GPS running it will drain the battery faster. But it only keeps it on for as long as you keep it active. Using the proxy itself will not change the discharge rate of your battery to any noticable degree.
Search for Franson GPSGate. You can read your heart out about it.

What should you put the baud rate to?
I mean I would assume higher means better but since my kaiser takes 10 minutes to get a lock I haven't really bothered doing any proper comparisons.
In any case all I get for the ten-fifteen minutes I've had this running is "GPS data but no position, running ok"
(Pretty much like GPS Tool, it runs and shows a lot of sattelites but never gets a lock. It does once in a while but it seldom and it'll always take ~10 minutes)
I have run quick gps.
This is with a cooked rom and a new radio though.
With my stock rom/radio I got a lock within 2-3 minutes after starting tomtom.

GSLEON3 said:
Really I'd see a lot of Noobies complaining about not being able to use multiple proggies & having issues giving gps a quick jump. This post was really just kinda intended for the noobie that doesn't have the skill or patience to set up multiple port connections for the GPS. With GPSGate they don't have to. It all wil run thru the same V-port without them having to do any changes manually. I find that using GPSGate there is NO DELAY in the new application receiving the GPS data. Before GPSGate, every time I switched programs my device would hang for a bit. I also noticed a lot of people using or including HTC GPS Tools in roms for a jump start of the GPS device, & I figured why not something more useful.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GSLEON3,
Although my GPS works within much problems or 3rd party software so far, I do appreciate your post on this as it clearly is helpful at his point of the ROM development.

I too am having troubles with my GPS. I have only had my tilt for a week or so but I can't seem to get the GPS to work well enough to be truly useful.
I have GPS Gate installed and it sometimes gets a lock and sometimes it doesn't. I have tried both TomTom 6 and iNav v3 and v4 with and without GPS Gate. I can generally get a lock sitting still and sometimes I can get a lock moving but anytime I try to use the navigation to go anywhere it either looses its lock within 10 minutes OR it only is able to track 1-3 satellites and thus HORRIBLY inaccurate showing me tracking between 50 and 500 yards from my actual location (if there are side roads or streets it almost never has me on the correct road). I have tried changing the position of the device to get better reception with no change.
I have also tried several different ROMS with different radios with no change. Are there some settings in GPS gate that I need to change to get better performance or do I have a defective unit? Any help would be appreciated.

GSLEON3 said:
More than anything I was bored & wanted to write (Got my replacement & had time to kill while Sec. Unlocking, Flashing, etc.), lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you were bored to write this. I, for one, thinks its a good source of info and a possible set of solutions for GPS issues. I dont think you can have too much possible solutions, so thanks for posting this up!

thanks much for taking time to post valuable information. i for one am no noob to windows mobile, but am too GPS. so, i definitely am willing to check into anything that could possibly boost performance of any component. thanks again and it does help alot with the new tool. one question i have is about the virtual port driver. the message comes up and ask me to soft reset for the virtual port driver to be installed, so i do. when i run the tool again it does the same thing, to me, indicating the driver didnt install. i go into advanced options and check the status and it says my driver memory is low, please soft reset. any ideas and thanks again.

GPS working Better at higher baud
I have been experimenting with changing the settings for my GPS in GPSGate. I posted earlier that I was having trouble getting it to work reliably and that I would frequently loose lock and not be able to get it back.
Here is what I have found works best so far:
Radio: 1.64.08.21
COM: 4
BAUD: 57600
Emulating: COM 1
TomTom: COM 1 at 57600
I really don't know why this works better but I have been able to consistently HOLD a lock once I get one. I still have trouble with it sometimes taking a VERY long time acquire a lock but once I have one it is working well. I will post if I find anything that works better.
If anyone has insight on this or finds any better settings please post.

AGPS - any proof of it working/providing benefit? (new topic - pls read!)

Now please no groaning when you see this topic. I know the GPS has been hammered to death on these forums; this post is my vein attempt to see if one particular area of interest of mine has at all moved forward.
(let's also side-step the whole "does your GPS lag?" issue here too!)
(..and, for clarify, I'm referring to AGPS as in the use of the mobile phone network to 'assist' positioning by use of triangulation in areas of poor/no GPS reception, and NOT the use of QuickGPS to download current sat. info in an attempt to get a quicker initial fix)
I used to use TomTom Navigator v7.450; it worked (of a fashion! ) although one specific thing that never worked was that whenever AGPS was enabled (using AdvancedConfig or similar) TomTom would get a signal and then immediately drop it again.. on/off on/off etc.. the fix being to disable AGPS.
I must admit I'm suspicious about HTC having their stock ROMs with AGPS disabled by default - especially as this was initially a 'selling point' of the device and part of the sales blurb ("not only does it have GPS but really good GPS using AGPS".. oh the irony!) - have they themselves ever got it to work?!?!
Now TomTom Navigator v7.910 is out (have just installed it myself, currently waiting for an updated map to download). I have seen it muted that this now works with AGPS on the Diamond or maybe the Pro (ie. someone reports the above bug, yet claims it now works having moved to v7.910). Can anyone else confirm this? More importantly, can anyone confirm AGPS has given the Diamond any GPS-related benefit what-so-ever?? (ie. great if it doesn't stop TomTom working anymore, but does it actually improve it like it should?).
I'll of course try it out myself later today or over the weekend and report back.
Hope this makes sense.. cheers.

just tried TomTom 7.910 (9185) with AGPS enabled, and cant say i noticed much difference.
seems the same now with it enable or dissabled. Cant be sure tho, havent done a long journey yet.
Will update later/tomorrow.

mugglesquop said:
just tried TomTom 7.910 (9185) with AGPS enabled, and cant say i noticed much difference.
seems the same now with it enable or disabled. Cant be sure tho, haven't done a long journey yet.
Will update later/tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for taking the time etc.
Interesting, because..
I've just taken a wonder outside and found I'm still getting the signal constantly being lost bug (looking at the screen that shows the sat. bars I have a good signal for a few seconds, then this goes and 'No GPS device' is displayed, then good signal back again and so on).
On this Diamond I'm using ROM 1.93.401.2 the the supplied radio (1.0.25.05), as I suspected this 'improvement' (potentially) noticed by you/others is more likely a result of a ROM/radio update and not a TomTom software update (guessing this AGPS bug isn't the first thing you try after flashing is it?).
Hmm..
nb. I'm using the exact same version/build of TomTom as you

hmmm... yeh, i'm going on a 60+ mile journey later, so will have a play.
Using Dutty's 3.4 ROM and Radio is BS14...

I thought that the whole point of AGPS is so you could help you get a GPS fix when indoors. Which I always thought was an unusual selling point when the entire purpose of GPS software is to help you find your way in the outdoors. Perhaps it could be more useful for those new tagging services that are popping up.
Anyhow I've been running a fairly recent version of iGo8 using Dutty's Rom 3.3 and 3.4 (both with that new radio).
With AGPS turned off, GPS signal is quickly attained and holds strong outdoors. Nothing indoors, naturally.
With AGPS turned on (via Duttys "AGPS Settings" utility), GPS signal is as quickly attained and flickers fully on then fully off, repeating constantly. When indoors, nothing at all.
So, with iGo8, AGPS seems to be a non-runner.
By the way, I once read that AGPS has to be configured to your particular mobile provider. Perhaps that's the issue?

Same here, with a-gps enabled signal drops constantly

after my journey yesterday, had the same problems as above.
tried with TomTom 7 and iGo8

I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.

ben cole said:
I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, I think this is thanks to googles effort, not AGPS... Google uses Google Gears API which can position you by using basestations and SSIDs.
AGPS is correcting/updating the GPS data with actual almanac data sent from you mobile provider...
Pitchb3nd said:
Same here, with a-gps enabled signal drops constantly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me, anyone being able to use TomTom and AGPS without losing signal periodically?

ben cole said:
I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah Google Maps does this on its own without having AGPS enabled on the Diamond. I believe AGPS is supposed to be more accurate than 1000m - 1500m though.
Oh and I believe the way that Google Maps gets its position depends on your mobile provider. I used to get the message "your location is not available" constantly on my network but one day (simultaneously as the iPhone was released in my country), the location was available. So I believe that the network flicked a switch for this technology to work.

AGps and TomTom
Hi,
agps have need to run to:
1) Carrier to inform MobilePhone here is (Is a Base Station Issue)
2) Public information about position
On mobilephone if is enable i think is need to have different information, and tomtom have old pattern to process agps information.
With googlemaps have new process and can use.
With my diamond agps run (googlemaps)
Cityhunter71

Please, don't mix the Google technology and A-GPS. They have nothing in common.
Google maintains their own privately held database of GSM-cellids which GMM can query to determine your position based on the current cellid.
A-GPS is a technology where the GSM-basestation itself receives GPS-satellitedata and relays it to the device. With this additional data, the GPS-receiver in the device is supposed to achieve a faster fix.
Have fun!

a-gps works with 7.450
i remember once that it was taking forever for the satelites to be found yet is was updating my postion on the map constantly via a-gps (which im sure was enabled by default in stock rom as ive never changed it)
a-gps is useful inside because you usually have your phone with you and to find a route, you need gps

Apologies for my erroneous post.
I realised my error today when I installed Google Maps on an ageing Blackberry I had unlocked to play with.
Started it up and lo and behold there was my location....thought I'd better head back here to suffer my shame ...LOL

Thanks for the input guys.
So - in summary:
Even with later ROMS / radios / software applications, there is still yet to be seen any benefit from the Diamond (theoretically) having an A-GPS capability.
RUBBISH!!
I personally subscribe to the theory that there is a missing link between the A-GPS driver type software and an info feed from the likes of the network operator, ie. it's all very well it picking up info on the network but without a back-end database to translate this it's useless.
As far as purpose goes.. I personally think A-GPS sounds on paper to be a great idea. Not a replacement for GPS, nor to be used exclusively indoors, but a good aid/starting point. For example, if I'm sitting in an unfamiliar office in London and wanted to use TomTom to navigate me a route to where I want to get to, A-GPS could provide TomTom with a rough starting point. Similarly, I often find myself launch a nav program (when I'm lost!) and standing there for up to 5 mins waiting for a fix.. at least this would give me an approximation from which I could probably work out myself where I was from looking around me. In my mind when you first fire up TomTom on the Diamond A-GPS should simply put you in the right postcode and start doing its stuff while the GPS seeks out its signal, and not still show me as being either at Home or its last known destination. But in any event - it seems not to work!! Bugger!!

I thought that aGPS was also to help hold a GPS signal when in tunnels, canyons, heavy forest cover (ie.Redwoods in this area, many tower to well over 300 feet!) or any situation where the signal from the satellites may be impaired, or even blocked completely.

Im running Duttys 3.5 and with AGPS on I will get a signal for 10 seconds, then it goes for a second, then back for 10. then gone. Turned AGPS off and all is well.

I can confirm that AGPS does work, some parts here in Finland it works and someplaces it does that on off thingy. once when I was just playing with my tomtom it got signal where it would never get it without it. but mostly here it doesnt work properly so i disable it.
But in Helsinki (larger city) it works properly and helps getting signal fast beneath tall buildings.
But yeah it doesnt work in my hometown so its kinda rubbish here.
Maybe it has something to do with how new are nearby cell towers or something. dunno

In Trondheim, Norway it worked with Telenor and gave me a signal indoors, but when I use it together with TomTom the signal gets lost periodicly, really really annoying since "everything" is already there. Probably just something with the co-operation with the regular GPS or something?

I think i got it to run.
I use tt7.910 on diamond with htc 1.93 dutch rom
My mobile provider is mobistar.
I can get a lock inside, tough it's slow(ie not as fast as outside).
When I fire up tt7 the almanac data is showing in the satelite screen.
reg settings are:
Code:
GPRSConnection: Orange World
GpsMode: 4
Network: Orange World
ServerIP: 194.51.71.138
ServerPort: 7275
ServerUrl: agps.orange.fr

Long time to lock gps

Hi,
I've got two apps on my kaiser: QuickGPS and QuickPosition and those two apps should be speeding up time for determining position by downloading file. I'm refreshing both files but there is no difference with or without this "apps" and my ppc is searching and locking GPS so long.
Can I set something in registry or somewhere? Or should I use only one of that apps (QuickGPS, Quick Position?) Where is the problem.
- Yes I Am trying to connect GPS under the sky -> outside.
So, what can I do to speed up that "locking"?
Thanks a lot.
(Its really stupid to walking outside for long time to get position...)
btw: Sorry for my bad english.

4n60 said:
Hi,
I've got two apps on my kaiser: QuickGPS and QuickPosition and those two apps should be speeding up time for determining position by downloading file. I'm refreshing both files but there is no difference with or without this "apps" and my ppc is searching and locking GPS so long.
Can I set something in registry or somewhere? Or should I use only one of that apps (QuickGPS, Quick Position?) Where is the problem.
- Yes I Am trying to connect GPS under the sky -> outside.
So, what can I do to speed up that "locking"?
Thanks a lot.
(Its really stupid to walking outside for long time to get position...)
btw: Sorry for my bad english.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Getting a first lock can take a bit of time -- upwards of 10 to 15 minutes sometimes. There are a lot of variables -- your radio's sensitivity (how many satellites it can 'see'; whether there are clouds; the number of satellites available, signal strength; bounce off local buildings, etc.
First of all, know that the Kaiser's GPS receiver is not all that great, so A LOT will depend on the version of the radio firmware you have installed. I'm currently running 1.70.19.09 which seems to be pretty good for most of us on NA, but other parts of the world are seeing different results.
After each soft reset, the GPS unit will lose all knowledge of satellites, etc. This is supposed to be supplied by the QuickGPS applications, but I have rarely found them to be much help (as have you). In this case, the GPS is in what's called a 'Cold Start' state (no knowledge of where it has been), so it needs to download all the information about the satellites (the Almanac) from one or more of the satellites it can see. Since this is only sent in little bits with the main position information (used to track you), this can take up to 12 minutes even under ideal conditions. You'll see it has the almanac when you see a whole bunch of satellite #'s show up with no apparent signal strength.
Then, once it has the almanac, then it has to get signals from at least 4 satellites at a consistent strength for a set amount of time (depending upon the algorithm in the navigation software) in order to calculate a 'fix'.
The good news, is that after the first fix, as long as you don't soft reset the Kaiser, or move hundreds of miles before turning on the nav software again, the time to get a lock will be MUCH shorter.
So, bottom line -- be patient on the TTFF (Time to First Fix). It can take a while. Clear skies and visibility of 3 horizons is best. AND, take a look at the Ultimate Radio Thread. Lots of us are experimenting with different radios to find which one provides the quickest fixes in our locales.

Could it be WM 6.1 again?
4n60 said:
Where is the problem.
- Yes I Am trying to connect GPS under the sky -> outside.
So, what can I do to speed up that "locking"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me guess, you have Windows Mobile 6.1 on your device? Have you seen the *Hopeless* GPS after 6.1 update thread yet? If I guessed wrong, the combination I have (shown in my sig) works fine with GPS and other than Tomtom Navigator 6.032, the rest is all HTC default.

Is there any way to store the almanac on the ppc between resets?

I thought that's what QuickGPS is for. But I think I've found that you need the right combination of Rom and Radio to take advantage of QuickGPS.
Currently, I'm using:
rom: AthineOS Faster Than Everything on KAISER, the naked version
radio: 1.70.19.09
And the Time to first lock after a reset is about 30 - 45 seconds. I'll be sticking with this combo for a while.

drmc said:
Is there any way to store the almanac on the ppc between resets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I'm aware of. QuickGPS downloads a 'generic' ephemeris dataset from the internet, but that's not the same as getting the actual, current almanac from the satellites themselves.

Have you guys tried using GPSTest to get that 1st lock? Using PDACorner v16 w/ 1.58.25.17 radio and usually get a lock within 30-40 secs, have problems without GPSTest...

[CAB] T-Mobile USA AGPS FIX

First and foremost I want to say that this would not have been possible without the XDA-Developers community, especially Da_G!! So say thanks to them!!
This has been tested by me and I can confirm that it works.
I use an AT&T Fuze on US T-Mobile's network. Obviously my phone is SIM unlocked.
I recommend you use the Blackstone Radio 1.10.25.25. NOTE: You must be security unlocked to flash the Blackstone Radio or any other radio from a Device other than the Raphael.
This cab file will make the following changes:
Code:
REGEDIT4
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver]
"OldLogFile"=""
"MaxLogFileSize"=dword:00000000
"CurrentLogFile"="\\windows\\GPSLogFile.txt"
"IsEnabled"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers]
"MaxBufferSize"=dword:00000200
"SleepOnNoData"=dword:00000064
"OutputBufferSize"=dword:00000200
"InputBufferSize"=dword:00000200
"RetryWaitOnError"=dword:00000003
"CurrentDriver"="GPSOneDevice"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\GPSOneDevice]
"PollInterval"=dword:00000064
"Version"=dword:00000002
"CommPort"="GPS0:"
"DriverName"="GPS Device Driver"
"FriendlyName"="QualComm GpsOne Card, version 0.0"
"InterfaceType"="POLL"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\GPSOneEmulate]
"Filex"="\\windows\\GPSOneFileSimulation.txt"
"FriendlyName"="QualComm GpsOne File, version 0.0"
"InterfaceType"="File"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\GPSOnePort]
"CommPort"="GPD10:"
"FriendlyName"="QualComm GpsOne Card, version 0.0"
"InterfaceType"="COMM"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Multiplexer]
"DriverInterface"="COM4:"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Multiplexer\ActiveDevice]
"Index"=dword:00000004
"Prefix"="COM"
"Context"=dword:12344160
"Flags"=dword:00000002
"Keep"=dword:00000001
"Dll"="GPSID_HTC.dll"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS]
"ServerIP"="66.35.236.25"
"DynamicURL"="supl.nokia.com"
"TLSHostName"="supl.nokia.com"
"ServerURL"="supl.nokia.com"
"GPSMode"=dword:00000002
"EnableAGPS"=dword:00000001
"Network"="T-Mobile Data"
"GPRSConnection"="T-Mobile Data"
"PrivacyMethod"=dword:00000003
"EnabledPrivacyMethod"=dword:00000001
"CloseConfirmMsgTime"=dword:0000003c
"EnableLocInfo"=dword:00000001
"ServerPort"=dword:00001c6b
"QosPerformance"=dword:00000059
"QoSAccuracy"=dword:00000032
"TimeBetweenFixes"=dword:00000001
"NumberFixes"=dword:3b9ac9ff
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS\DefaultSetting]
"EnableAGPS"=dword:00000001
"CloseConfirmMsgTime"=dword:0000003c
"PrivacyMethod"=dword:00000000
"EnableLocInfo"=dword:00000001
To use for another carrier, change the following registry strings to the name of data connection:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS]
"Network"="Your Connection Name Here"
"GPRSConnection"="Your Connection Name Here"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This cab file has made it possible for me to lock onto upwards of 7 satellites each and every time in less than 20 seconds. From a cold start(after a reset) I can lock in less than 20 seconds outside. From a warm start it's more like 5-10 seconds.
Inside my bedroom with no visibility at all I can lock onto upwards of 7 satellites in about a minute.
With all that said... Here's the cab file:
WARNING!! USE ONLY ON USA T-MOBILE!! Do not use on other carrier without making the appropriate registry edits!
WARNING!!This requires a data connection so do not use if you do not have a Data Plan or are willing to pay any charges to your account. I'm not responsible if you use this cab file and get a bill in the mail for hundreds of dollars because you didn't have a data plan.

For AT&T could I just edit the carrier to "medianet" or what ever we use? along with the nokia settings ? I'll play and see what happens later today. Thanks for your contributes!

I have the same phone as you dharvey, with an AT&T fuze unlocked for T-Mobile. However, I did not hard-spl mine because I have no idea if my phone is security unlocked or not.
My GPS works just as fast (under GPS Test), and can get a lock quickly without the cab. I'm looking at the registry edits and I'm just curious if this will improve GPS capabilities on my phone. Before you did the registry edits on your phone, what was the speed of your GPS before? Did you use GPS test? Or am I too far behind on the AGPS discussion?

noellenchris said:
For AT&T could I just edit the carrier to "medianet" or what ever we use? along with the nokia settings ? I'll play and see what happens later today. Thanks for your contributes!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too, would like to know what has to be done to get it to work with ATT...

noellenchris said:
For AT&T could I just edit the carrier to "medianet" or what ever we use? along with the nokia settings ? I'll play and see what happens later today. Thanks for your contributes!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes if you just wanted to make the manual registry changes without installing the cab and use "MEdia Net" (yes capital E) and use the Nokia settings it should work. Don't see why you would want to though AT&T has their own AGPS Servers.
Agent Blair said:
I have the same phone as you dharvey, with an AT&T fuze unlocked for T-Mobile. However, I did not hard-spl mine because I have no idea if my phone is security unlocked or not.
My GPS works just as fast (under GPS Test), and can get a lock quickly without the cab. I'm looking at the registry edits and I'm just curious if this will improve GPS capabilities on my phone. Before you did the registry edits on your phone, what was the speed of your GPS before? Did you use GPS test? Or am I too far behind on the AGPS discussion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HardSPL does not require a security unlock. Only if you wanted to flash a non-Raphael Radio like me would you need to security unlock the phone. This cab will install for you but I can't guarantee it will work for you unless you have a similar setup to me.
The time it took for me to get a GPS lock on my phone before making the above changes was upwards of 2 minutes. Now I'm down to 10-20 seconds without the extra.bin from QuickGPS.
Also I'm not using GPS Test. I have the same results with any GPS program I use from Google Maps to TomTom to GPS Test.
achild said:
I too, would like to know what has to be done to get it to work with ATT...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just change "T-Mobile Data" to "MEdia Net"(yes it needs to be a capital E) after installing the cab file but like I said earlier you shouldn't need to since AT&T has their own AGPS servers for their customers.

if wanting to use this agps/gps settings with another operator such as Orange in Spain, what should I modify?
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS]
"ServerIP"="66.35.236.25"
"DynamicURL"="nokia.supl.com"
"TLSHostName"="nokia.supl.com"
"ServerURL"="nokia.supl.com"
"GPSMode"=dword:00000002
"EnableAGPS"=dword:00000001
"Network"="T-Mobile Data"
"GPRSConnection"="T-Mobile Data"
"PrivacyMethod"=dword:00000003
"EnabledPrivacyMethod"=dword:00000001
"CloseConfirmMsgTime"=dword:0000003c
"EnableLocInfo"=dword:00000001
"ServerPort"=dword:00001c6b
"QosPerformance"=dword:00000059
"QoSAccuracy"=dword:00000032
"TimeBetweenFixes"=dword:00000001
"NumberFixes"=dword:3b9ac9ff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only the red keys right?
with my operator gprs connection name, right? "Orange GPRS" is the name of my Data Connection in settings/connections/connections and this is the value i should put, right?
Can anyone confirm it, please?

fourcc said:
if wanting to use this agps/gps settings with another operator such as Orange in Spain, what should I modify?
Only the red keys right?
with my operator gprs connection name, right? "Orange GPRS" is the name of my Data Connection in settings/connections/connections and this is the value i should put, right?
Can anyone confirm it, please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That should work. Try it and report your results. Basically all you need to change is the operator connection so that it can connect to the internet.

dharvey4651 said:
That should work. Try it and report your results. Basically all you need to change is the operator connection so that it can connect to the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you very much. testing it....

does anyone have agps working with at&t. as in you are able to be in a basement and using tomtom get your location.... im not talking about by the window and 30sec to connect. thanks

it took me almost a min from cold start (after soft reset) but only about 5-10 second after that. not bad at all considering that it used to take me upward for 3-5 mins with a lot of helps from other program (quickGPS + gpsToday) It was a bit cloudy outside, that might be the reason why it took much longer but still a huge improvement from my previous set up.. and now i don't have to start up anything else prior.
Thanks!

irus said:
does anyone have agps working with at&t. as in you are able to be in a basement and using tomtom get your location.... im not talking about by the window and 30sec to connect. thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing is going to give you position data in the basement. Nothing. AGPS? Forget it. Even if your carrier gives location data on the user plane to Tom Tom or whatever else, there is no way to get a lock underground.
I am amazed at what people expect GPS to be able do.

irus said:
does anyone have agps working with at&t. as in you are able to be in a basement and using tomtom get your location.... im not talking about by the window and 30sec to connect. thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why in the world would you even want to use GPS in the basement? Are you getting lost trying to find the stairs?
Operation619 said:
Nothing is going to give you position data in the basement. Nothing. AGPS? Forget it. Even if your carrier gives location data on the user plane to Tom Tom or whatever else, there is no way to get a lock underground.
I am amazed at what people expect GPS to be able do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Especially considering the whole concept of GPS. GPS = Global Positioning System.
This is quoted directly from Wikipedia:
Basic concept of GPS
A GPS receiver calculates its position by precisely timing the signals sent by the GPS satellites high above the Earth. Each satellite continually transmits messages containing the time the message was sent, precise orbital information (the ephemeris), and the general system health and rough orbits of all GPS satellites (the almanac). The receiver measures the transit time of each message and computes the distance to each satellite. Geometric trilateration is used to combine these distances with the location of the satellites to determine the receiver's location. The position is displayed, perhaps with a moving map display or latitude and longitude; elevation information may be included. Many GPS units also show derived information such as direction and speed, calculated from position changes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GPS needs to be able to "see" the satellites in order to lock. AGPS(from what I understand) still needs a strong cellular signal in order to work too. If you don't have a strong cellular signal then how is it supposed to triangulate your position?
Using GPS in a basement will never happen. I'm shocked I can get a lock in my bedroom to begin with.

irus said:
does anyone have agps working with at&t. as in you are able to be in a basement and using tomtom get your location.... im not talking about by the window and 30sec to connect. thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll 2nd this.... If I'm kidnapped and locked in a basement or dungeon of sorts, AGPS would enable me to load TomTom and I could find out where I was locked up.
On second thought, I could just call for help on my Rafael...

some conclusions about these AGPS settings using Orange in Spain as the data connection used to communicate with the Nokia AGPS servers.
It works!
AGPS data arrives to the mobile and help the GPS, to get Fixes.
but there is one small problem, as AGPS is now enabled, it seems that the GPS SW (gps test, google maps, gpstoolpro, gpstoday, tomtom...) waits for the AGPS datat to be processed before it tries to get a direct fix with the satellites. Sometimes this can produce a delay. I mean that before, the "kick gps tools" such as gpstoolpro, gpstoday used to get really quick fixes without the AGPS settings. Tomtom used to stay really longer if it was not kicked by them. Since now that i have AGPS, Tomtom can acquire a fix very fast, but the "kick gps tools" waits really longer until they get a fix becasue they seem to wait for the AGPS data to be processed..
So it seems that the AGPS settings make tomtom get faster cold & hot fixes, but slow down the "gps kick tools" cold & hot fixes.
before AGPS settings:
cold start:
gpstoday 15 sec
gstoolpro 15 sec
gps test 1 minute
tomtom 2-3 minutes
hot start
gpstoday 6 sec
gstoolpro 6 sec
gps test 15 sec
tomtom 1 minute
after AGPS settings:
cold start:
gpstoday 20-30 sec
gstoolpro 20-30 sec
gps test 20-30 sec
tomtom 20-30 sec
hot start
gpstoday 15 sec
gstoolpro 15 sec
gps test 15 sec
tomtom 20 sec
times are aprox.
What about your experiences with these AGPS settings?
Share please.

Dharvey, when you fire up google maps, are you using the "Use GPS" option for getting your location? Also, what do you have set in your "External GPS" settings? Did you put the "GPS program port" to COM4 as has always been suggested? Also, hardware port = none? Thanks for all your work on this.

Just a small note, the cab actually has a typo (and it's my fault b/c i was a little inebriated when I typed up the post containing the info, and have since edited it!)
nokia.supl.com should be supl.nokia.com
It still works because the IP address is used directly unless it fails, in which case it rolls over to the hostname. But still, fixing it now rather than whenever nokia moves the supl server to another closet and your a-gps breaks would be a good idea

Da_G said:
Just a small note, the cab actually has a typo (and it's my fault b/c i was a little inebriated when I typed up the post containing the info, and have since edited it!)
nokia.supl.com should be supl.nokia.com
It still works because the IP address is used directly unless it fails, in which case it rolls over to the hostname. But still, fixing it now rather than whenever nokia moves the supl server to another closet and your a-gps breaks would be a good idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good call. I'll fix this right now.
EDIT:: Cab file fixed with Da_G's correct URL.

So would using the Nokia servers still work if you were on AT&T?

iboj007 said:
So would using the Nokia servers still work if you were on AT&T?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see why not. As long as you change the connection type to your carriers first this way your AGPS will still connect.

Operation619 said:
Nothing is going to give you position data in the basement. Nothing. AGPS? Forget it. Even if your carrier gives location data on the user plane to Tom Tom or whatever else, there is no way to get a lock underground.
I am amazed at what people expect GPS to be able do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@everyone - correct me if im wrong but isn't the Agps on our phone supposed to give you an approximated location whether you are connected to satellites or not?