Database Develop

Tilt GPS VS SIRF III [pics]

I thought I'd do a signal comparison with the new tilt. I used TomTom gps viewer for ease of use.
Here are my results.
Patio area:Fairly covered, narrow view to N and E 45* at best, mostly 80*ish
SIRFIII
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Tilt on Patio: NO FIX
Next I went to the car. Its in parking lot surrounded by buildings, about 45* clear on 3 sides, 60* on one side....
SIRFIII At sunroof
Tilt at sunroof
I used the sunroof because I typically put the SIRFIII receiver in the sunroof slider for best signal, this is obviously not possible with the tilt so I also tested at the console...
Next post....Pic limit...

SIRFIII at console
Tilt at console
Notice the Tilt at sunroof is nearly = to SIRFIII at console...
Now I tried one to test the SIRFIII's capabilities.
Inside garage with door closed on bottom floor of 3 story building on the console....
I couldn't believe it still got a fix on there, I'm amazed
And of course
Tilt in garage on console...NO FIX (duh)
If anyone else has results/input please do add.

I am inside the building, and still get result!
randomtask16 said:
I thought I'd do a signal comparison with the new tilt. I used TomTom gps viewer for ease of use.
Here are my results.
Patio area:Fairly covered, narrow view to N and E 45* at best, mostly 80*ish
SIRFIII
Tilt on Patio: NO FIX
Next I went to the car. Its in parking lot surrounded by buildings, about 45* clear on 3 sides, 60* on one side....
SIRFIII At sunroof
Tilt at sunroof
I used the sunroof because I typically put the SIRFIII receiver in the sunroof slider for best signal, this is obviously not possible with the tilt so I also tested at the console...
Next post....Pic limit...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Penske MB said:
I am inside the building, and still get result!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea thats what I keep hearing, but I have to be away from buildings out on the clear open to get a fix though...hmmm

randomtask16 said:
Yea thats what I keep hearing, but I have to be away from buildings out on the clear open to get a fix though...hmmm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. =/

me too. I get no fix inside my 2 story house with no trees around. I lose fix even inside a train that is travelling through a wide open area.

2 stories above me.
For me it basically works every where I have tried. Locks under 5 seconds. Used to have the Ipaq 6945 and took almost a minute to lock and never got a lock inside buildings. I do know know how well this compares to external ones since I never got the chance to try any. Overall very satisfied.

I have never got a fix inside a room and I think this is quite obvious.
And basically I dont really care, why do I need to use GPS inside a room?
The thing that really important for me:
- How is it perform? Do you get signal lost quite often?
No, I dont. I have the same experience when using my old Magician+BT-338 Sirf III external GPS.
In some rural area in Belgium I noticed the Kaiser GPS has only 1 bar of signal, and it worked fine.
- How fast is it to get satellite fix after exiting a tunnel?
Again, same experience with my old SirfIII GPS.
- How fast is it to get the first satellite fix after turned on?
Very fast, between 5 - 30 seconds The same experience with my old SirfIII GPS.
Well, at least, thats my own experience.
For sure, SirfIII GPS could be more powerful than the NMEA of Kaiser, but the NMEA is powerful enough
At first I was quite skeptical about this NMEA vs SirfIII, but not anymore.
Next week, another test ... 450 km driving to Germany

gogol said:
I have never got a fix inside a room and I think this is quite obvious.
And basically I dont really care, why do I need to use GPS inside a room?
The thing that really important for me:
- How is it perform? Do you get signal lost quite often?
No, I dont. I have the same experience when using my old Magician+BT-338 Sirf III external GPS.
In some rural area in Belgium I noticed the Kaiser GPS has only 1 bar of signal, and it worked fine.
- How fast is it to get satellite fix after exiting a tunnel?
Again, same experience with my old SirfIII GPS.
- How fast is it to get the first satellite fix after turned on?
Very fast, between 5 - 30 seconds The same experience with my old SirfIII GPS.
Well, at least, thats my own experience.
For sure, SirfIII GPS could be more powerful than the NMEA of Kaiser, but the NMEA is powerful enough
At first I was quite skeptical about this NMEA vs SirfIII, but not anymore.
Next week, another test ... 450 km driving to Germany
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice! u goin for vacay or shopping?

What's the difference?
Definetely holiday + shopping.
I've never been there, so I am not sure if I am gonna like it though.
ghaith_d said:
Nice! u goin for vacay or shopping?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I find my Kaiser VERY slow to get a lock. Even outside with no obstructions. More than two or three minutes in most cases.
I'm comparing to a Garmin Nuvi 660...
Only software I have tried is the GPS photo and Google Maps.

The Kaiser GPS is A-GPS, meaning it can use mobile phone signals to aid a fix.
Personally, going from a bluetooth sirfIII to the kaiser GPS, I don't notice a difference in accuracy in day-to-day usage.
Fix time, however, with the Kaiser, is much, much quicker. 5 seconds max usually.
sgt-spam said:
I find my Kaiser VERY slow to get a lock. Even outside with no obstructions. More than two or three minutes in most cases.
I'm comparing to a Garmin Nuvi 660...
Only software I have tried is the GPS photo and Google Maps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you updated the GPS quickfix software? This downloads the satellite positions in advance so that it does not have to download them from the satellites, which is low bandwidth and subject to interference. Even if you could see every satellite, you won't get a "lock" until it knows where the satellites are and can do the triangulation.

I have always been able to get a fix inside my living room. The only place (inside) where I have not been able to get a fix is at my workplace, but, then again, I don't get cellphone signal at workplace either.

It seems we either had a poor experience with it, or a great one. I'm using the ATT ROM.

AGPS (Assisted GPS) is disabled in AT&T's ROM. Can someone with the HTC ROM check HKLM\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS\EnableAGPS?
On the AT&T ROM EnableAGPS is disabled, or set to 0 and the GPSMode is 2. What are these values on the HTC ROM?

txcas said:
AGPS (Assisted GPS) is disabled in AT&T's ROM. Can someone with the HTC ROM check HKLM\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS\EnableAGPS?
On the AT&T ROM EnableAGPS is disabled, or set to 0 and the GPSMode is 2. What are these values on the HTC ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the HTC ROM the EnableAGPS is disabled too (set to 0) and GPSMode is 2 too...
Seems Assisted GPS are disabled in HTC too. Can be enabled changing the EnableAGPS?
What are the advantage of using instead of QuickGPS?
Thanks.

AGPS will help get your location using the cell network. I will enable it and see if it help getting GPS locks while indoors.

txcas said:
AGPS will help get your location using the cell network. I will enable it and see if it help getting GPS locks while indoors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did it help at all ? Very intresting

It did not help at all. The server configured in the registry is for Orange in France. Unless we find one server that works for us in the US, I don't think we can use this feature.

txcas said:
It did not help at all. The server configured in the registry is for Orange in France. Unless we find one server that works for us in the US, I don't think we can use this feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right, this is the info for the serverIP in my HTC spanish ROM
Nombre: LNeuilly-152-21-109-109.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr
Address: 193.253.42.109
I'll give a try and see if get data indoor...

GPS

Hi.
I know this might already be confirmed but I did a simple logging on com4 and found that the gps i really there. Will go out later today and test it again but this time outside. I attach the logging to.
One more thing, it´s kinda strange the gps is always on, atleast htc could disable the gps for real if they´r not gonna use it. The battery time would increase alot.

GPS is enabled, how more i read about it it has to do with something like no antenna is connected. When i use the GPS test tool it finds a GPS on com4 and have one sat in screen.

lol
to cold here to go outside, put mine by the window the other day and got one sat with GPS test.

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Here is mine, I found also one sat, it was inside the house before the window. GPS is working but its no sensitive enough, could be no antenna.

Where can I get the software to access the GPS? Sorry for the simple question, I've been looking around online and can't find it.

Lurchy24 said:
Where can I get the software to access the GPS? Sorry for the simple question, I've been looking around online and can't find it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.smartphone.net/software_detail.asp?id=3170

Thanks. I only get one satellite as well.

Im very happy!! 1 sat. is better than no sat.
hope we can get GPS running for real.. soon

As jockyw2001 also wrote: We need pics of the inside of S730, both pre-production (with antenna) and current production model/or service manuals of Kaiser and s730. Then we will be able to see how the antenna looks like and where is it connected.
Idea!!
Is it possible to make (by HTC) the hardware switch on s730 board, which is disconnecting the antenna?
Then, the antenna could exist and the new ROM could enable this feature in future.

gps
Is there anyone here in the forum that actually has GPS working and getting a few sat signals etc.
it will be intresting to see if there is any difrerences in there registry. If someone has it working can they post the reg. info so we can compare.

ToneBank said:
One more thing, it´s kinda strange the gps is always on, atleast htc could disable the gps for real if they´r not gonna use it. The battery time would increase alot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GPS is not always on. It has some power saving timeout and 'wakes up' when communication port is openned and GPS data are read.
On the COM4 is not directly GPS, but GPS intermediate driver (someone knows it from PPCs), that allows more application can read from one COM port.

oh
something else i thought of is there a working driver for the gps on the phone or not? Im not really sure if it needs one.
Also i found a pdf of the msm7200 chipset. not that much to look at but you can see the gps etc and how its wired and i presume an antena at the end.
Follow the link http://www.3gchipsets.co.kr/download_library/pdf/msm7200_chipset.pdf

Here is a s730 with GPS:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=337796&page=2

yes it was a preproduction model. In the official models its not working. We need to find out what is difference between both models

I am still new to the smartphone world so I cannot be of too much help, but this is what i've seen thusfar;
With GPS Test I have gotten sats on com 2,4 and 7, every satellite I pick up is at 0 on the little map locator screen. The GPS tool never gets past GPS starting up, stays fixed at 1D and no other info gets downloaded.
My testing has been in very cloudy weather over the past few days here in Texas, today though its nice and clear so I hope to get more done. I played a little with the baud rate but nothing came of it. When I did pick up a sat it was gone in 10 - 20 seconds. I did at one point pick up two at once, both in the same direction. Overall I have seen 6 different satellites, only 2 at once, and all from the same location. Could be thats the only open direction I had for visibility at the time.
I do remember reading somewhere that the GPS chip had a small antenna actually built onto it. Hopefully we can get it working soon.

10332007 said:
I am still new to the smartphone world so I cannot be of too much help, but this is what i've seen thusfar;
With GPS Test I have gotten sats on com 2,4 and 7, every satellite I pick up is at 0 on the little map locator screen. The GPS tool never gets past GPS starting up, stays fixed at 1D and no other info gets downloaded.
My testing has been in very cloudy weather over the past few days here in Texas, today though its nice and clear so I hope to get more done. I played a little with the baud rate but nothing came of it. When I did pick up a sat it was gone in 10 - 20 seconds. I did at one point pick up two at once, both in the same direction. Overall I have seen 6 different satellites, only 2 at once, and all from the same location. Could be thats the only open direction I had for visibility at the time.
I do remember reading somewhere that the GPS chip had a small antenna actually built onto it. Hopefully we can get it working soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
could you find out where you have read it?

This is one place, I cannot find the other place, it was their blog or one of those other sights that has a blog in playing with the pre production unit they talked about its processor and GPS... I'll try to dig it up.
Getting really annoying having the tool stay in "GPS starting up" mode none stop. Need to find the HTC version that the pre prod. phones were using or figure out how they nerf'd it.

Yes, I think I saw the same blog forum, but this blog is out now :/.
http://superiorgadgets.blogspot.com/2007/09/htc-s730-worthy-successor-of-popular.html

But of course the blogger still exist on http://superiorgadgets.blogspot.com/

http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/showthread.php?t=23205
Post #7.
Has anyone tried to get a pre-production rom?

GPS Altitude

Hi,
today I've checked how the altitude is calculated by the Kaiser. Here is a comparison with an external SirfIII GPSr, which correlates well with real altitude above sea level.
The Kaiser shows approx. 50m too much, even with low vdop.
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Do you experience the same? Is there a possibility to put an automatic correction somewhere in the registry or use another driver?

well according to the sirf III readout you can jump 100ft. so i wouldnt take that as a very good comparison

If you want to know altitude, buy an altimeter. GPS is just not designed to do it accuratly.

Hi,
thanks for commenting. Of course I know about the drawbacks of GPS for altitude measurements, but a constant offset is strange (In the graph shown, I moved and was often in areas with bad reception). Maybe the chip does not take into account the deviation from perfect ball structure of the earth surface. Or there is a possibility to calibrate, which was not done. But if you experience a different behavior, there could be a chance to correct it.

If I recall the SIRF III has WAAS/EGNOS correction capabilities and the the Kaiser does not. If so would that make a difference.
Can you turn the WAAS/EGNOS off on your external unit to see how the altitude compares without correction?

My Kaiser's GPS seems to have an altitude offset of about 35-40 metres. I've tested this when I was at the beach, around 1 metre above sea level, and the Kaiser was showing 35+ metres. As others have said, the problem seems to be that conventional GPS systems are not designed for accurate altitude measurement.
Having said that, it appears that the altitude in my Kaiser is reported with a seemingly constant positive offset of 35-40 metres, so it would be convenient to be able to adjust the GPS module/driver to automatically subtract 35 metres from the reading. But again, the offset may change if the GPS is operated in another place (say, a different country), due to the non-perfect shape of the earth. So the offset adjustment may work in one place but not everywhere.
The altitude in the Kaiser's GPS is good for observing variations, like rising or falling altitude, but the actual values don't seem to be very accurate. If you want accuracy, a dedicated altimeter is the best choice.
DrXDA

Some programs like GPS Tuner have a place where you can specify a constant offset to add.

Answering the post from PsyOpWarlord: My BT SirfIII is operating without WAAS/Egnos.
Normally, it is a good way to stay at the same place and average over 5mins to get a good accuracy for both horizontal and vertical position...

Forgive my ignorance but what application are you using that gives you altitude?
Living in Colorado that would be an interesting piece of information, even if it is offset by 30m.
Thanks

I would recommend a software called glopus. It has extremely many possibilities. It's in german, but most of the features are controlled via icons.

For grins I broke out my old handheld GPS unit (Fortuna GPSmart) to see the difference I get between it and my Tilt.
I averaged 5m-10m difference between the two with the Tilt being the lower reading and the Fortuna being the upper.
If I have free time at work (which seems increasingly less nowadays) I'll see if I can get my hands on a military grade GPS unit at the base I work and compare the readings.

gregeast said:
Forgive my ignorance but what application are you using that gives you altitude?
Living in Colorado that would be an interesting piece of information, even if it is offset by 30m.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a free one called VisualGPSce that will give altitude... and it's in English.

Well, that is how a GPS works ..
The altitude that a GPS displays, is the altitude above/below the WGS84 ellipsoide. That is a estimation of the form of the earth, but since it is an estimation only; it is not exact.
Some places it will be above the 'real' altitude, and on other places it will be below.
Some GPS chipsets (like the SirfIII) have a builtin correction, making the altitude fit better with the earth-altitude; but that correction is not always activated.

How to activate GPS? [TyTn II]

Hello all,
I've been looking for a way to start my GPS when I want it, I want the red led to blink at me!
The only way I can get it to work is with googlemaps or tomtom, that software then magicly activates the module for me. Why can't I do that, I am your master little computer!
Also if I try other software like nav4all and amazegps, I just get the message: No GPS device found. It's driving me crazy.
I would be very gratefull if someone could please tell me where to find the switch, button to activate the GPS module when I want it on. And maybe also tell what I am doing wrong in relation to other software that tells me I do not have GPS.
Thanks allot!
Loeder

Compatible software switches it on whenever you wish master.
Loeder said:
I've been looking for a way to start my GPS when I want it, I want the red led to blink at me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whats wrong with the orange flashing light you get with Tomtom working? As far as I know, without any jiggery pokery installing cabs, the red light is reserved only for low battery or problems so if you're really keen to have a flashing red light, let the battery discharge below 5% (that ought to give you a few mins usable GPS usage).
The only way I can get it to work is with googlemaps or tomtom, that software then magicly activates the module for me. Why can't I do that, I am your master little computer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can if you learn programming skills and write a module to load and use the devices GPS driver. These products you have that don't detect the TyTN IIs GPS capability don't have that built in, hence they cant 'see' any GPS. A simpler way is just to write to your preferred GPS software provider and ask them to make it compatible with your device or buy/use something that already is fully compatible.
I would be very gratefull if someone could please tell me where to find the switch, button to activate the GPS module when I want it on. And maybe also tell what I am doing wrong in relation to other software that tells me I do not have GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I trust the above addresses this (although I suspect your usage of 'module' above means this is no surprise to you).

At least the MWg Zinc II has it built-in to the COMM MANAGER - not that I would see a need for it since good application should be able to find and use the GPS module anyway, however, it tells me that there should be a way in WM to turn it on manually!

Loeder:
Most GPS apps have settings menu where you can set the GPS settings, for the Tilt/TyTN II/Kaiser, COM 4 and 56000 always worked for me.
Flying Kiwi:
The red light Loeder is talking about is the "GPS Active" light, not the "low battery" light.

Thanks for the help!
I actually installed some sort of device driver that made my GPS crash everytime, now a hardreset saved me but the good thing is that I can now run (http://www.amazegps.com/welcome.php) free navigation that does the job same as TomTom (to think i almost spent €50,-).
Still, it is ... quit annoying that they did not put a simple button in the comm menu or otherwise...
TyTn II has been great sofar.
Loeder

GPS active light is orange, not red.
AthenaLod said:
Flying Kiwi:
The red light Loeder is talking about is the "GPS Active" light, not the "low battery" light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That one is orange - check it and you'll see

Flying Kiwi said:
That one is orange - check it and you'll see
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know, that's what he meant, let's not fight over it.

Loeder said:
Thanks for the help!
I actually installed some sort of device driver that made my GPS crash everytime, now a hardreset saved me but the good thing is that I can now run (http://www.amazegps.com/welcome.php) free navigation that does the job same as TomTom (to think i almost spent €50,-).
Still, it is ... quit annoying that they did not put a simple button in the comm menu or otherwise...
TyTn II has been great sofar.
Loeder
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but when you spend that €50 you get maps loaded for your location, so if you don't have a 3G or Data connection when your trying to figure out where the hell you are you can at least see roads to travel on. This is the one thing that bugs me, I don't live in the city so when I'm out "Joy Riding" and want to find where I am going sometimes I don't have a cell signal so my phone is useless with Google or Live or this amaze program, Plus I purchased a version of streets and trips but of course they are not nice enough to include a WM version with your laptop version so now if I want that on my phone i have to buy it AGAIN... I may go that route since looking on Tom Tom even if I was able to install the V7 cab they don't sell US&Canada maps... Or at least I can't find where to buy them from.
Scratch that... Microsoft doesn't have a version to go with streets and trips since the 05 version I think... so Now I'm limited to navigation programs that require a data connection... WTF... Unless someone can tell me where TomTom is hiding their US maps on the map purchase page for Navigator 7

If you want to turn your GPS on, then use a little app called GPSViewer or VisualGPSCE, both are freeware and attached for your convenience.

There is another application called GPSTest.exe, it is attached.

Turning it on does not mean it can automatically be used
Irrespective of whether a utility is used to turn on GPS, I don't imagine it would enable a non-compatible package that can't initialise GPS itself, to work with the TyTN II though.... or will it?

MACkjam said:
If you want to turn your GPS on, then use a little app called GPSViewer or VisualGPSCE, both are freeware and attached for your convenience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks MACkjam, another little usefull apps, all i knew was just GPSTest and it's incridible.
My main app for GPS was still Garmin XT, free map available for Indonesian region.

I would once again say thank you for all the help, and the programs you posted allong with your replies.
I hope this thread will be helpfull to others aswell.
@Berretafreak: I have never not have a signal sofar in europe, but I'm sure there are places, even in europe, that do not provide a decent signal. Also I have a regular TomTom .
Loeder

The zinc ii does NOT show gps and does not have the traditional mgr. It says wireless.
BTW tt7 nav with na maps is available and works perfect.
I have tried some com cabs but they do nada.
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I have only a 300min plan and nothing more.

MACkjam said:
If you want to turn your GPS on, then use a little app called GPSViewer or VisualGPSCE, both are freeware and attached for your convenience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great u r top man! worked 4 me

After Cyanogen, tomtom no longer detects G1.

I had RC33,
and upgraded (imo) to Cyanogen.
Im trying to pair with my tomtom G630, but no luck.
the phone sees the tomtom, shows as "paired but not connected"
the tomtom doesent even detect the phone though, despite the phone bluetooth being set to discoverable.
It worked fine before.
any ideas?

From what I know, I'm pretty sure Cyanogen mod fully supports all the BT features, maybe you got a bad flash. Check the md5sum and if its not right delete the file off your computer and redownload and wipe, wipe ext2, repair ext2 and wipe then flash.

man, i hope that's not it, everything else works absolutely perfect, tethering works beautifully.
Im more inclined to blame the damn tomtom than the G1 LOL

haha
Yeah, I use an app called CoPilot but its expensive so I recommend AndNav2
Its not that bad =]

I already bought the tom, and have updated the maps already once, so ive sunk about $400 into it, its not getting replaced any time soon.
Im racking my brain, but there just really isnt anywhere to go on this.
If i set the phone to be discoverable and run a scan with my laptop, boom its found, almost instantly.. So the phone IS discoverable, just not by the tomtom.

Ok, so now things have swerved far into the retarded lane.
My Macbook can detect the G1 just fine.
If I set the macbook to be discoverable, the tomtom will find it just fine.
so the G1 is boradcasting and can be discovered, and the tomtom is trying to detect and is detecting other discoverable devices..
but not the G1.
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AH HA!!!
got it!
the trick (if you can call it that) was to do "connect to bluetooth device" not the scan for phone option.
WELL CRAP
I still cannot use tomtom traffic, says the G1 is not capable of wireless data or something to that effect.
poop.

aww haha, hmm maybe TomTom will update or a dev will code something to help out.
not sure, I don't have a car nor a tomtom lol

Please don't take this as me flaming, but did you say "Maybe TomTom will update their code"? No way! They are lazy when it comes to that, even when you have purchased their top of the line products, they just don't care. It is take it or leave it when it comes to their stuff. I had more luck working with Parrot, Cardo, and a few other companies who actually wanted to help make their products work, or at least listened to work-around ideas to help implement them.
I am stuck with a TomTom Rider 2nd edition for my 2 wheeled ride and it hates my G1 phone, all TomTom says is to deal with it or to get an older phone from their list of phones that are known to work. I even offered to pay for a new map upgrade and they said it was not enough. BTW, I had 2 GO910 models and they both took a crap in the first week. I had to fight with Circuit City to rectify the problem (even with the extended warranty). I ended up getting my money back since TomTom blamed me for having a car with a tight suspension and was not willing to fix the unit. This was on a Chrysler 300M with the touring package. When they told me that line I laughed so hard that I cried! Next time I'll get a GPS from a different company or just try the TeleNav program on the G1. I wish Google Maps read out turn by turn directions and stuff.
If you know linux, you might want to just try to hack into the GPS and work that puppy till it begs to connect to your phone.