Database Develop

Battery Life any good

Hi,
I'm thinking of changing from the M3100 to the Kaiser.
Is the battery life any better as my phone with push email goes flat so quick.
Cheers.

What do you consider "quick"?
My TyTN II is running 24/7 with a constant 3G-connection, 5 minute interval for POP3-mail and Exchange-pushmail. I also call about 45 minutes/day and send out a few SMS.
Based on my experiences so far, my battery should last about 2 days before going to backup-battery. And I think that's decent enough for the usage I demand from this device (it also helps to have 4 chargers laying around in various places).

Getting ~ 18 hours with ActiveSync email push "As items arrive", 3G / HSDPA, around ~ 3 - 5MB data download per day, ~ 30 mins calls, light GPS usage. Not pretty but given the large featureset and speed of the device (e.g. data download) one has to make compromises. A larger battery design would have been nice but a charger at home and in the office and a spare battery when at neither one do the trick as well.

davidlucas said:
I'm thinking of changing from the M3100 to the Kaiser.
Is the battery life any better as my phone with push email goes flat so quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my case - rather light usage - it's roughly the same as with my previous Hermes, which means ~2 days when Auto (2/3G) mode, and ~3 days when on 2G-only mode.

Not so good on mine
I am very unhappy with mine, particularly compared with my Trinity (same usage pattern, but I get probably twice less battery).
- Listening to music on the speaker for 15-20 mins drops the battery from 100% to less than 90% (after a full night charge).
- Using GPS for 60 mins drops the battery by a 20-30%. These are not scientific measurements, but I am almost reluctant to use the device because of this.
It would seem, compared to other people’s comments, that my battery or device has a problem, so it might not be a good indicator.
Compared to Trinity (wm6), screen, performance, Bluetooth (no problems with SE DS 970) is a big improvement. Weight (190g) and size is not. Trinity felt very robust, particularly due to absence of keyboard.
Compared to Hermes, everything is much better.

Is the trinity 3G? If not, it's not a fair comparison.

Thanks for those answers.
Well I'm getting about 12 hours from my 3100 so it seems the Kasier is pretty good.

Battery 95% when started - GPS for 2+ hours + a few phone calls - battery 44%. Which I actually consider ok - GPS uses a lot of juice at the best of times. For long trips I will just use my external GPS receiver.

Most of the time you use GPS when you are in a car. Get a charger for in the car.
I have one at home, work and in the car. Works just great! Its a price to pay to be continuously online on a mobile phone, a price I am willing to pay. Just need to get used to charging even if battery isnt low.
I probably will buy a 2nd accu pack later.
If there's a Kaiser cradle that will be sooooo cool.

Battery is highly sufficient for myself.

Battery not too great for my usage patterns. 3G push all day and night, beam autoreceive off, bluetooth WIFI off. Lasts about 24 hours.
Just out of curiosity, what brightness/auto-dim/auto-off settings do you guys use?

i take my phone off the charger at 7am have push mail running and have band set to gsm. im down to 60% by 4pm with light use(30 min talk+15 min internet)
heavy use(1 hr talk + 30 minutes internet im down to 40%. subtract an extra 35-40% if i listen to internet music through BT for an hour while at the gym. when i use gps in the car i have the charger hooked up so no drain. i only use 3g when listening to internet radio watchin slingbox or surfing large pages. I dont think i could use this as a work phone without constantly chargin. at work im on the phone at least 3hrs a day.

Yep, Trinity is similar to TyTn I except no keyboard, but with GPS.
jamijam said:
Is the trinity 3G? If not, it's not a fair comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

For long calls, I rather use a normal phone than a cell phone. Because at work I am using a laptop, I got used to charge it when I am using my laptop.
What helps is change the brightness settings.

Hi. I am trying to adapt free and commercial version of bandswitch and commmgrpro to work with kaiser to be able to switch between 2G and 3G with one click and a few seconds so save batterty. Because a unknown reason the system that works in Universal, Athena and Tynt doesnt work correctly with Kaiser and Soft Reset is required. I will keep you reported.
Dani

danielherrero said:
Hi. I am trying to adapt free and commercial version of bandswitch and commmgrpro to work with kaiser to be able to switch between 2G and 3G with one click and a few seconds so save batterty. Because a unknown reason the system that works in Universal, Athena and Tynt doesnt work correctly with Kaiser and Soft Reset is required. I will keep you reported.
Dani
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's very fast if you use phone configuration... you set to GSM or AUTO, and in a few seconds you have 3G o GPRS connection..

laapsaap said:
For long calls, I rather use a normal phone than a cell phone. Because at work I am using a laptop, I got used to charge it when I am using my laptop.
What helps is change the brightness settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The power it requires to lit the Screen, the less light the less power needed. Thus making the battery last (a bit) longer

pepeto2001 said:
it's very fast if you use phone configuration... you set to GSM or AUTO, and in a few seconds you have 3G o GPRS connection..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi pepeto.
Yep, you are right, but you ve to go to phone/menu/options/band.....And this system doesnt allow to go to 3g, for example, for 10 minutes and then automatically switch back to 2G if you forgot to do it...
Its easier to do one click in today plugin....At least in my case because I ve to switch many times per day.....
Dani

TyTN II / Kaiser issue: GPS & battery drain

Hello all,
it seems there is more to complain about than this video driver nightmare. I'm adding two issues in separate threads. This one deals with the GPS module and resulting battery drain. I observed it right after installing the first GPS software and searched for help nearly everywhere, and I found some more hints pointing at short battery uptimes after GPS was used. Here's how it works:
- access the GPS port (GPS software, "OziExplorer" or the like)
- stop the access
- end all software tasks
- put device into standby
- Due to an additional current draw of approx. 50mA the battery will be empty within a day --- in standby. The GPS unit does _NOT_ return into a low power state, no matter how much time passed.
- Only a complete power-off or pressing the soft reset button ends this condition.
Installing a battery monitor software (BatteryStatus) confirmed an additional current draw of approx. 50mA after the mentioned GPS port access.
I found a promising registry entry HKLM/System/CurrentControlSet/GPS Intermediate Driver/Drivers/SleepOnNoData but again it does not seem to have the least of an effect (default is 1000).
HTC support claimed "they know of no issues in conjunction with the Kaiser" - well at that point I was not even able to put my question. Which somehow tells me how serious these guys take their customers .
BusterTyTN

One thing I forgot: knowing that the GPS does not turn off, I use to apply a soft reset whenever I used a GPS software. Voilá, several days runtime until I have to recharge!

this confirms my suspicion...
now and then it happend that the battery of my tytn was empty in the morning. I never really proved that it happend after using gps, and looked for a thread here....well, here it is...
Others must have made the same observation.....

Today I succeeded submitting a bug report to HTC, at last... built a test setup, made measurements with a digital scope, documented everything. The problem can always be reproduced. There is a smooth, steady state current consumption of nearly 50mA after the GPS has been used, without any software running in the background. Until you soft reset the device.
I will let you know as soon as I have news on this one. Whoever can reproduce this, please add a note to this thread. This power management issue is getting more and more interesting.
BusterTyTN

Hm i must check that in my klaaiser last days i was always instaling something so manu soft restes have been made i'll test it now.

I can confirm that GPS activation seems to drain battery more.
I have installed the latest dutty rom, and have not installed tom tom.
So far I have had the phone on for 28 hours, and still have 40% of the battery.
Previously battery would die after 12 hours.
I am not sure now I want to install Tomtom.... ;-)
But I know I will not be able to resist....

what should my kaisers power usage be at on average, mine seems very high at an average of 250mW?

Good idea. Let's take typical power measurements and state them here. I will come back with some more values later on. I do not have my scope measurements within reach, and I am going to complete the picture with the help of "BatteryStatus". Here's what comes right out of my memory:
In standby, no background software, no communications etc.: next to nothing, 0 to 1mA / 0..3mW
Active, still no software or communications, just the "today" screen, brightness at the second lowest setting: ~180mW
BusterTyTN

I'm using the Garmin software for gps, and I don't seem to have te battery drain problem. with Garmin xt running 220 - 280 ma. Once I shut down Garmin xt it slowly drops, taking from 3 to 5 minutes, back to a normal 60 -70 ma. (1 -3 ma in standby.)
Good luck sorting this out.

Typical power data
Nakel, negative proof is just as good as positive. Well possible that there is a dependency on the ROM type / branding / OEM configuration, so maybe you're so kind to add the brand / type / ROM # of your device. And perhaps you can try GPSTest and check the battery current in standby again - just to exclude nasty side effects.
My device is the "Vodafone VPA compact V", ROM Version 1.56.162.5, Radio 1.27.12.11. No updates so far. Here comes its power consumption data, taken using "BatteryStatus". I observed the power display for a few minutes in each situation and tried to catch the lowest readouts. The individual sections were activated one by one. Sorry I forgot to check the current increase at full brightness, but I think that is of secondary interest here.
1. Pstby = 0..3mW (reference for the following)
2. Pon = 155..180 mW (reference, set to lowest brightness, no task running, didnt touch screen nor buttons)
3. Pon+20mW = 175..200 mW GSM phone logged in, no calls
4. Pon+5..10mW = 160..190 mW BT on, no link
5. Pon+130..400mW = 280..560 mW WLAN, no data transfers
6. Pon+850mW = 1000 mW GPS on, SW running (OziExplorer or GPSTest), with & w/o GPS fix
7. Pon+200mW = 340 mW On, after GPS access. Same situation as 2. otherwise.
8. Pstby+180 mW = 180mW standby, after GPS access. Same situation as 1.
9. Pon+380mW = 540 mW Mediaplayer running, 0%Volume
10. Pon+530mW = 680 mW 5% volume, internal speaker
11. Pon+260mW = 410 mW, 5% volume, display completely off
Scope readouts show very little battery current ripple (clean DC) in situations 1. and 8. Significant ripple in all other modes.
BusterTyTN

I've used both Pocket Streets and Fugawi and found that, if I use the "stop" or "close" GPS option in those applications, the GPS shuts down and I have no battery drain issue.
I think you're looking at a problem with an anti-social application rather than a Kaiser issue.
I'm running the stock AT&T ROM, but have upgraded the radio to 1.27.12.17

You have to make sure you close the GPS application and not just minimize it. If you minimize the GPS app that you are running the GPS will continue to stay on, draining the battery.

BusterTyTN said:
Nakel, negative proof is just as good as positive. Well possible that there is a dependency on the ROM type / branding / OEM configuration, so maybe you're so kind to add the brand / type / ROM # of your device.
BusterTyTN
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T Tilt
I'm using the standard At&T ROM without the added AT&T bloatware.
R 127.12.11
G 22.45.88.07H
D 1.57.00.00
Hopefully that will help solve the problem. Wish I could be of more help...

ray6 said:
You have to make sure you close the GPS application and not just minimize it. If you minimize the GPS app that you are running the GPS will continue to stay on, draining the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both of the applications I mentioned have features that specifically start and stop the GPS. They do not have to be closed to avoid battery drain issues.

I'll go ahead and add my numbers:
Before GPS:
Standby: <1mA
On and Active: ~85mA
GPS turned on (GPS Utilities): ~250mA Steady (450mA peak)
After terminating GPS software:
On and Active: ~80mA
Standby: <1mA
Running Alex's WM6.1 Beta 1 ROM, AT&T Tilt

Well I already saw quite a number of complaints out there, regarding quickly drained batteries, in similar circumstances. The problem is definitely there, I only have to find out the prone devices and/or the affected versions.
So anybody who can reproduce these findings, please contribute here, and do not forget your version numbers.
Thank you all
BusterTyTN

Dead battery after 6 hours of minimal use, i am not sure if it's the GPS's fault but i will do further testing
R 1.27.12.11
G 22.45.88.07H
D 1.56.00.00

I think I already wrote that in another thread on the same subject...
any road,
I had battery drain issues just twice: those times the phone completely drained the battery in a few hours... possibly more or less the 6 hours even dhob187 experienced.
I just re-charged the phone and had no more problems. I dunno why that happened but as it is not a common behaviour I'm not that worried.
In my experience I had no problems with GPS-battery relationship.
Rom: 1.56.408.5
Radio: 1.27.12.11
Protocol: 22.45.88.07H

According to MSDN the intermediate driver 'counts' the number of open connections to it. After all programs have closed their connection the driver shuts the gps down. When an program 'forgets' to close it's connection the driver doesn't shut down the driver. Could be an good idea to write an little program to check the status of the driver (with IOCTL_SERVICE_STATUS?) and/or start and stop the driver (IOCTL_SERVICE_START / IOCTL_SERVICE_STOP)

All i can tell is that the new Dutty rom Wm6.1 Beta1 is the best for your Batt. live !!!!
It's the best so far...
See my sig

Battery Life

Hi Guys
I work in the IT dept of my company and ive got the job of supporting all our WM devices. (97% of them are the HTC Tytn II/Kaiser)
i get moaned at alot about this things and the main thing is the battery life is p*ss poor! All they run is active sync to pull in emails as they arrive and then the usual phone call, but yet the battery still wont last a day.
Does anyone know of any tricks or tweaks i can do on the devices to make them squeeze out every last drop of battery life?
cheers

Yeah, if you can get Advanced Config installed on their phones, fire it up, go to the right soft-key "Menu" option, and in there should be a Comm Manager selection. Pick it, and in the panel that comes up check on teh 3G button. Then, close out of Advanced Config and let it reset the phone. When the phone comes back up, go into the Comm Manager and there will be a new button to turn 3G on and off. Turn it off. If all they're doing is phone calls and pulling down emails, the Edge connection should be more than sufficient. I've also noticed improved battery life by leaving bluetooth turned on all the time (I now it's counterintuitive and could be a placebo effect, but I swear it makes a difference for me.) I can get well over 2 days on Edge connection with the stock battery using these 2 tricks.

splash08 said:
Hi Guys
I work in the IT dept of my company and ive got the job of supporting all our WM devices. (97% of them are the HTC Tytn II/Kaiser)
i get moaned at alot about this things and the main thing is the battery life is p*ss poor! All they run is active sync to pull in emails as they arrive and then the usual phone call, but yet the battery still wont last a day.
Does anyone know of any tricks or tweaks i can do on the devices to make them squeeze out every last drop of battery life?
cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they don't have them already, you may want to have car chargers installed in the company cars of those with TyTN IIs. As for settings yes disabling HSDPA or even better going back to just plain GSM rather than 3G will help battery life (although also slow down any internet connectivity). You could also try turning down the screen brightness as this has a major effect on battery life but then they'll probably all complain the device has p*ss poor screen visibility (especially in bright sunshine - so if you're in the UK this won't be an issue )
If these suggestions don't work then I think the best plan will be to make it as easy as possible for them to top up charge during the day, perhaps with desktop cradles as well if this would encourage charging. I sometimes need more than one battery charge in more than a day (I've even used up all of my spare battery charge as well on a day involving lots of GPS navigation on foot) so yes these things do normally use lots of battery power if you have all the bells and whistles running and no charging occuring. Make sure wifi is left off on the TyTN IIs unless it's actively being used at the time.
Which ROMs are they using - all HTC official? There are reported differences in battery consumption depending on the ROM version used.

cheers for that guys
I will give both of your suggestions ago, next time i get one of the tytns in front of me.
I have the advanced config for the HTC diamond would that work on the tytn? if not where would i get that from?

Is it just me or are we being left with the sour taste of "Why should we have to compromise on the performance of the device to get 2 days battery life out of it?"

Unfortunately " push " email kills an already suspect battery. Activesync and your media net ?, edge? or 3G remains connected all the time . I had to go from " when they arrive" to " check every 30 minutes " for email or else my battery , even with minimal use would not last past 5pm.
I really miss my Blakberry in this respect. My Tilt does everything and everything for me, and does so on battery power. I guess if it just made phone calls the battery would last for days.

i agree denco, all the HTC WM devices ive ever had, they've had a load of functions but the battery is all very weak! whether or not that is something to do with HTC or WM i dont know, but its very annoying and just something we have to live with as my company signed a 2 year contract with Orange in March so there is nothing we can do!

Well, I doubt that it is Windows Mobile; ok, to be correct: WM has gotten more powerful with each new version, got even more and more graphical additions, just like Vista compared to XP. For sure this needs much more horse power and, in fact, processor and RAM are increasing. However, HTC barely increases battery capacy as well - might it be because of size / weight proportion or other reasons - I don't know!
I had the MWg Zinc II for a while and the battery life (1500mAh capacy) was amazing. However, audio / network reception quality was a joke on that thing.
Thankfully, there are HIGH CAPACY and EXTENDED BATTERIES available for the HTC's. They make your device look funny but surely increase your battery life as well.
I am (still) willing to sacrifice battery life for quality; arranging my life by having a car charger and also a 2nd battery with me when on the go. Hopefully HTC's batteries will evolve and have higher capacy in future devices.

Kaiser battery life
I am not an expert at this. I also was unable to keep a battery operational for half a day until I did a hard reset, and brought it back to stock ATT 6.1. Then used the phone without email for a day and noted no excessive battery drain. (70% at end of the day) Kaiser tweak added, with the “Disconnect after” parameter in the Data (GPRS/EDGE/HSDPA/WIFI) set to 1 min. Added the MS Push to my Exchange server, and only use the single email account. No appreciable battery drain. (68% at end of day)
The only thing I have NOT enabled yet is the ATT Navigator. Will add Google Maps and see if it messes with GPS chip. I have read and experienced the GPS draining my battery, even after turning it off, within a couple of hours.

splash08 said:
cheers for that guys
I will give both of your suggestions ago, next time i get one of the tytns in front of me.
I have the advanced config for the HTC diamond would that work on the tytn? if not where would i get that from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the advanced config, there are also settings for "Power management", make sure there is enabled in all of them.

Starfury said:
Is it just me or are we being left with the sour taste of "Why should we have to compromise on the performance of the device to get 2 days battery life out of it?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, considering the EEEpc I have gets about 2 hours battery max, and I can do a stack load more on the TyTnII than on the laptop, I', pretty happy. I had aan old Nokia that would go for 2 weeks without charging, but for a high end, gps enabled windows phone, 2 days is amazing.
@ splash08 : you can also try upgrading to the new 1.70 radio found in the kaiser rom thread, seems to give me less drain. Also, you can buy larger capacity 3rd party batteries.. maybe thats the best soultion.

GPS (Telenav) causing my battery drain
Since my last post on the 27th, I have had ZERO problems until I used the Telenav on Friday evening the 5th. Since then can only get about 4 hours out of the battery before it drains completly and that is with ZERO use. I have uninstalled Telenav and done multiple power down, but stilll draining. Looking for a way to turn off the GPS before I do a hard reset.
GPS had no issues with google maps and no battery problems.

ive now tried all those suggestions but non have really made a dramatic increase. I thought i cracked it at one point, over a weekend my phone last from saturday all the way though to monday night! but then i realised that saturday and sunday is off peak so the push/pull function was set to every 60mins! As soon as i got back to work during the week the device would last just over one day, on emails only.
i think i may have to look into getting the extended batteries or maybe changing all the devices for a none HTC device, as they seem to have a weak batteries (but i think this may be the last resort at it will cost a lot ot change all the devices)

Accurate battery tester?

I have tried two programs to test the battery on my kaiser:
Battest starts out about normal - ~100mA. As I turn on bluetooth, WiFi, GPS, that number drops. Magical, right? When I go all out and start streaming a video or something it says I am using -120mA. Negative power consumption! We can only wish.
Next I tried acbPowerMeter. It told me I was using about 80mA. I started streaming a video and it shot up to 220000mA. Then it came down to 24mA.
So either A.) I'm misunderstanding the data, B.) The battery meters I tried don't work properly, C.) I have discovered a way to conserve and even generate energy by simply using more of it!
What do you guys recommend to accurately test my battery consumption?

BatteryStatus has always worked for me.
It will display current draw in a Today plugin. AE Button plus also has a status screen that seems to work fine.
I never tried the programs you mention. However they're pretty interesting indeed, one gives you free energy and the other seems to make a perfect heater

Almost a month since I upgraded from Touch to Diamond ...

... and I just LOVE the Diamond. I always thought the Diamond's just a VGA version of the Touch with GPS built in, and hesitated for a while before I decided to go for the upgrade. Almost a month since the upgrade and I can't even imagine myself going back to the Touch.
I love the Diamond for ...
- beautiful VGA screen
- great form factor, fits perfectly in hand or pocket
- 3.5G is FAST ... especially considering I'm coming from a EDGE machine
- The 535MHz processor may be under-rated when running the bad ass TF3D2 interface, but its speed advantage shows in other apps say, like TomTom when alternative route calculation is required
That said, on the other hand ...
- battery life sucks. This is the first phone since ... man ... the Nokia 6190?! when I actually carry a spare battery with me. I setup the Diamond to check email once every 30 min, and keep it to EDGE for email, use 3.5G only with Opera, do very little web browsing, and my battery still can't make it through a 10 hrs day without giving me low battery warning before I get home.
- Compared to the Touch, which had Talk / End / Camera buttons on top of the D-pad, the Diamond loses yet another hard button in the camera button. I use AEB+ to get more functionality out of my hard buttons, but still I wish there's at least the camera button. OTOH, I don't know about others, but I almost NEVER use the back button. I thought it'd be somewhat useful if it gets you back to the last webpage when browsing the web ... but it doesn't. It gets you back to the last app. Worse, the Home and Back buttons cannot be remapped, or controlled by AEB+.
- The Diamond looks stunning with the piano black finish but the whole phone is a finger print magnet. I think I'm developing an anxiety disorder rubbing and cleaning my phone every chance I get these days.
- The phone heats up quite a bit after a number of resets, or after browsing the web for a while. It gets hot enough I wonder if I'd burn myself leaving it in the jeans pocket.
- The combination of heating up and poor battery life makes it a BAD navigator. If I use turn GPS on and leave the phone running TomTom with screen turned on all the times, the battery hits low battery level within an hour. However, if I plug the charger in, the battery overheats (40C or higher) within 30 min to a point either it stops charging, or resets itself.
All in all, I love my new phone! I think it's a great phone, and most of the shortcomings don't bug me much ... but it'd be great if the battery life and the last point about using it as GPS can get addressed.
Any suggestion?

little info, you can remap the back button with aeb+ the button is called "ok" in aeb+, if i remember correctly.
only the home button cannot be remaped..

Also update your Radio. My battery used to be exactly like how you mentioned until i updated it to the Radio v1.13.25.24 (Blackstone) found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=470306
Make sure you read the instructions of updating the Radio VERY CAREFULLY or you'll brick it.
Since updating the Radio ive noticed a significant improvement not only in battery life but also other things like my phone connects to 3G faster and also my TomTom gets a fix within 10-20 seconds. (before it was more like sitting there for 1-2 minutes before getting a fix).

I also recently upgraded from my beloved S710 to this one since the S710's display broke after it fell out of my pocket.
Being used to the S710's great battery life, the TD was surely a bit disappointing. Apart from that, it really is a cool device.
Regarding TomTom take a look at this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-412321.html . It describes how to reenable the dim feature. Unfortunately, TomTom doesn't allow the background light to fully switch off but at least dimming it enhances battery life.
I tried one or two radios and made the best experiences with v1.00.25.05 using T-Mobile (Germany). Fast GPS fix and stable signal, good battery life, great voice quality.
To enhance battery life, I also disabled 3G and used all the other tweaks of Advanced Config Tool. Bluetooth seems to be a battery drainer, so I only use it for ActiveSync.
Having BT/WiFi deactivated, my battery lasts about 3-4 days with medium usage. When listening to music or navigating, much shorter.
Did you condition your battery by fully unloading and reloading it several times?