Database Develop

Everybody is a cooking master these days?

Pretty wierd, Itje has been in-active for a couple of days (probably due to easter) and all of a sudden everybody is "releasing" roms like its there speciality?
And when i read these threads and somebody askes a simple thing as "are you putting youtube in it?" i see answers like "it is pretty hard to get youtube up and running, i dont know how to do that"..
Is this something everybody wants to see? Imo cooking/releasing roms should be done only by people who have the knowledge and knowhow off everything.

FalkenX said:
Pretty wierd, Itje has been in-active for a couple of days (probably due to easter) and all of a sudden everybody is "releasing" roms like its there speciality?
And when i read these threads and somebody askes a simple thing as "are you putting youtube in it?" i see answers like "it is pretty hard to get youtube up and running, i dont know how to do that"..
Is this something everybody wants to see? Imo cooking/releasing roms should be done only by people who have the knowledge and knowhow off everything.
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If they want to try to cook, why not?
It's only a win-win situation
They learn more & have more experiences and maybe they'll even getting better than Itje

very very succinctly put..
jerpeleas kitchen is very very simple to use.
and is perfect for creating that "personal rom"
unfortunately, whats happening is what often happens, and is that everyone suddenly decides to throw out that personal rom for public consumption.
now i think its great that people are trying things out, but i do think, ladies and gentlemen that you should keep your experiments a bit more "internal" at least till you understand what you're doing a bit better..
please??

fards said:
very very succinctly put..
jerpeleas kitchen is very very simple to use.
and is perfect for creating that "personal rom"
unfortunately, whats happening is what often happens, and is that everyone suddenly decides to throw out that personal rom for public consumption.
now i think its great that people are trying things out, but i do think, ladies and gentlemen that you should keep your experiments a bit more "internal" at least till you understand what you're doing a bit better..
please??
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Agreed. Glad to see more cooks or more people willing to learn to cook. But sad to see lots of them either unfinished, or not tested fully w/ lots of bugs here and there. And I don't see any unique features/characteristic/fixes among most of them since all are based on the same kitchen without going into details to learn and create.

In other words, people, if you wanna try to cook your own roms thats your own choice, but stop the posting on the forums if there arent any new feautures/bug fixes in it.

alway nice to see more people cooking.
but like myself i cooked a rom with jerpelea's kitchen.
i twisted and turned allot over and made it to my personal favors.
but i won't release for public just because it is to my own taste and i know that allot of peoplehere have different choises and willings.
it's great that cooking is made easy for everybody but if you don't have the real knowledge like our first timer chefs keep it for yourself and enjoy it as much as you can!
but hey..
that's just me

The word is not "cook" kids: it's READ and SEARCH.
Spread the word
I cook
You cook
He cooks
She cooks
We cook
You cook
They cook
But jerpelea is the biggest cooker of them all !!
Been cooking since january over WinMo 6.5, nothing worth sharing yet... until jerpelea uploaded his kitchen and I solved 6 weeks of problems in 6 minutes:
I eagerly read all 49 pages of his suggestions/tips, and included a couple of his packages into my own recipe, now I can fire the oven

knaplullig said:
alway nice to see more people cooking.
but like myself i cooked a rom with jerpelea's kitchen.
i twisted and turned allot over and made it to my personal favors.
but i won't release for public just because it is to my own taste and i know that allot of peoplehere have different choises and willings.
it's great that cooking is made easy for everybody but if you don't have the real knowledge like our first timer chefs keep it for yourself and enjoy it as much as you can!
but hey..
that's just me
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yup I've been cooking my own for a while now, but I've never released one.. mostly as I do it to learn more..

ive made 6.5/manila2 roms but havnt uploaded them because of this whole situation.
I do think however its better that ppl make their own roms and learn more about their phones then being a drone to somone else.
Its too bad that some in the past ruined it for some to truelly learn what needs to be changed in some cases. because alot of cooks are protecting their roms. so disecting their rom to see whats really in it is a bit harder then normal.
not speaking down to itje or about him. but if we were able to truely dissasemble his rom we could find out why myfaves doesnt work.
but cooking my own rom i got myfaves working but using jerpelea kitchen i get dumb little bugs

FalkenX said:
but stop the posting on the forums if there arent any new feautures/bug fixes in it.
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That's not what I mean. But I wish new cooks instead to rush out a buggy rom (especially for 6.5 which is still beta and still with lots of issues w/ X1), could spent more time in clean up and bugfix, then release an tested and quality rom. It just a waste of time of you and your users if your rom is too buggy to be useful. Or released roms w/ features/softwares w/ bugs and issues that you don't have idea how to get them fix.

I kinda like to see all the new ROMS out. We went from 1 or 2 to a bunch. Granted there are a lot of buggy ROMS and people should do a lot more searching and more beta testing but being one of the new cooks i can see the reason for trying to release it. Some people use there phones completely differently that you do so i would think that others would find bugs that you don't. I know when i released my lite rom there were issues that i never even thought of trying so i had like 5 versions in like 2 weeks.
Most people don't add new features because a lot of the stuff is hard to come by in my opinion that is. They just release a different take on the programs and features.
I dunno just my take....

shadowmike said:
Its too bad that some in the past ruined it for some to truelly learn what needs to be changed in some cases. because alot of cooks are protecting their roms. so disecting their rom to see whats really in it is a bit harder then normal.
not speaking down to itje or about him. but if we were able to truely dissasemble his rom we could find out why myfaves doesnt work.
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I am not sure if this is his true intention. But you got to understand this is the side effect that the Bepe's kitchen he use (which is a lot more effieicent and easy to manage, and I start to use it as well since my V3.x series).
In fact, Itje is very generous in sharing what he could share in the Chef sharing thread, or his own threads w/ the helps from Fards, Akp99 (man, how come I don't have such an helpful team???). All you need is search, or ask the right man.

I have seen the same thing..
I welcome new chefs..its all good, but as said before, its not the "real" work of chefs, its more a "Ikea" sollution, buy/get the kitchen parts..put it together and use it at home...
And as jack said, please guys keep making roms..its cool..but rather then releasing roms that others has made (Jerpelea) try to make one from scratch...
I must also admit with this new wave of chefs, it also keeps getting very annoying that many of the new rom makers keep sending pm's, e-mails and adds me to msn. It didnt bother me at start, but now Its getting pretty frustrating.
And I am not even allowed to say no, they keep on coming asking for everything I know, everything I got..and if I say no, im a cocky mofo who wants to be the topchef all by himself..etc etc
I have to be rude, and I have to put ppls requests down. If not, I would not have time to do make new roms, because I was personally guiding everyone else.
That IS NOT why im here. I have no interest at all beeing a teacher...I can share stuff, but then I also like to get something back (not talking donations here) and that is a more respectful tone, specialy when I decline helping.
But, I try to point ppl in the right directions..telling them what to look for or where to find a thread with the stuff they need..usually that is not enough...cause they keep coming back asking what to look for....
But then I dont reply, because if you cant find it, then you can find another hobby..and that I dont back up on..
I have been searching this forums, so many times for new stuff, to learn new things, and I STILL DO.
I help if I can, I share when I can..but dont add me to msn to ask for cooking help. Cause you wont get it..sorry.
I know this post can be considered a bit off topic..but then again, its not..cause that is whats happening "behind the scene" of all the new "chefs"
Im sorry if this offends anyone..and im sure there is ppl among the new guys that are gonna get way better then me in this...after all, its just a hobby

I dont like ppl dissambling my roms
I tried for some time to have open roms..damn I even left in the rgus, so ppl could dump the rom and recook for personal use..
But what they didnt know was that I hid some small codes in the base of the rom
So when suddenly new roms started popping up..from ppl claiming it was their own work...can you guys guess what I found in the roms???? nahhhh..guess one more time
Then I made some "rules" Do not recook and release my roms, or I will protect them...
To bad..it still happened...
So I locked my roms, and if ppl dont like it...I dont care

Oh please don't take what ive said the wrong way. I understand the reasoning behind it.
not to be that guy but i still get the files i need from ur rom. like new images for replacement of the old green highlights.
but i also respect your work to not release anything as i understand how time consuming it is.
as i used to skin for psp's and windows mobile 6 and 6.1 standard neo and sliding panel home screens.

I have to say I've been reading this thread with particular interest, as I could be considered one of the "chefs" Itje is talking about as I recently asked him to point me in the direction of how to create ROMs. I personally found in all the custom ROMs that I tried several different little tweaks or something that I didn't use and wouldn't use and all I can say to people is, unless you've created a new TF3D or something HUGE then don't publicise ROMs - Once i eventually learn how to create on, I will simply use it just to create a ROM that is PERFECT for ME - and then I will work on creating something spectacular!
And that's my 15minutes of fame for the day
Nirave
P.S. I've just re-read the post and there is no hidden meaning in what I said regarding asking Itje! I know it sounds like there is, but there's not !

I'll open it out a little more: If anyone can help a long-time reader, small-time poster (ME!) and point me in the direction of how to create a custom ROM I'll be ever grateful
thanks
nirave

nirave said:
I have to say I've been reading this thread with particular interest, as I could be considered one of the "chefs" Itje is talking about as I recently asked him to point me in the direction of how to create ROMs. I personally found in all the custom ROMs that I tried several different little tweaks or something that I didn't use and wouldn't use and all I can say to people is, unless you've created a new TF3D or something HUGE then don't publicise ROMs - Once i eventually learn how to create on, I will simply use it just to create a ROM that is PERFECT for ME - and then I will work on creating something spectacular!
And that's my 15minutes of fame for the day
Nirave
P.S. I've just re-read the post and there is no hidden meaning in what I said regarding asking Itje! I know it sounds like there is, but there's not !
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dont worry, im not aiming at any person...but its a typical thing...its the same over and over again...same way

I dont see any problems in all these new roms. If there is nothing special, people wont be interested so that the "problem" will be solved by itself.

itje said:
dont worry, im not aiming at any person...but its a typical thing...its the same over and over again...same way
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Yes, I'm an Ikea cook, as Itje said. I'm only ever after a bare-bones ROM with whatever XIP\SYS improvements updates may provide.
I once published one of my "Ikea assembly" efforts for my earlier Eten X500, acknowledging the base was from PDAVIET, and was inundated with requests, complaints etc etc. So now I just use these Ikea efforts.
Question: does anyone know why official ROM updates seem never to use NETCF3.5 over v2.xx ?
V3.5 has been available for well over 18 months now

[DEBATE] this forum, cooked roms, chefs and donations...

guys,
please read the text below and let me know what you think about it...
although people try to mask the situation by giving it good names the truth is that this is happening and something has to be done before things get worse.
some folks are using this forum to sell what they call 'their' products. they get these ROMs, they make changes to it by adding or removing software. then they publish it as if they are 'sharing' their 'work' but, strangely, they do it in a very commercial way by naming their 'work' with appealing words to get attention.
when these ROMs go published, they often take a few first posts of the thread as they have a lot of information to add..... and screenshots to publish..... and donations to 'suggest'...... and donors' names to publish.
sometimes it will happen that a few folks who are trying these home cooked ROMs with applications that are less likely to be used by most people will end up having serious problems that eventually will get fixed by the 'chef' .... on a new version.
the principle of sharing a piece of work entirely made by yourself is that it cannot be asked anything in exchange otherwise, even if slightly suggested, it's nothing but a sale and by getting copyrighted software, making changes to it, 'sharing' and suggesting donations from the testers, well.... i'm pretty sure this isn't completely nice.... and either legal.
although i never really bothered to look into these roms to see what's really inside them (even flashing them on my phones sometimes) i decided to do it earlier this week. the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
another interesting thing is that if you look into the other subforums carefully you'll see that the same chefs often publish roms for more than one handset which gets me thinking two things: 1) do they really have all these handsets they publish ROMs for? 2) if so, are these roms really tested before they go online?
i don't want to be seen as a troublemaker cause it seems that these folks have made a living out of this cooked rom thing and they appear to have gotten themselves a pretty nice bunch of fans too. however, what i want with this thread is to raise a debate and the reason is that i really like this forum and i'm concerned about something that is happening and i completely disagree.

So what is your main concern?
That the chefs would like to have donations?
Or that someone takes a pile of code and alters it not according to the original programmer?
abe

big people talk about idea..
small people talk about other people..

You have a point with "selling someone else's code, slightly altered and selling it as your own", but I think the ROM cookers only like donations for the work they do tuning the original roms and most of the time adding functionality to the device. A lot of the "better known" chefs have gathered testers around them, so most of the bugs are gone before a release.

What exactly is the debate? Where are the facts/proof that this is occuring? you cant make such a statement without backing it up with some evidence.

I know some chefs actually put ALOT of time and effort into cooking a rom, testing it and informing the community about any errors found.
I've cooked a Rom or two myself and am working on a driver set for MSM devices. It takes ALOT of my time to do so and it's not only for my own benefit. Thank God there are people out there who help me with that. (you know who you are, if you're reading this)
I'm not saying that it's right to pass your ROMs off as your own, but I do know some chefs are better in making the devices perform alot better than HTC's programmers do. And if people want to reward them for their time and effort through donations, who am I to question that?
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
Just my 2 cents.

Well, I think that if they "invest" lot of their time (and they do), it is ok to have donation button. Nobody if forceing you to pay for rom. If you like it you can donate. Fair deal if you ask me!
SlakerBoi said:
guys,
the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
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This part I don't like. I think that they shouldn't do that, because in that case, like you said, roms are in some way being sold. That is not in the spirit of xda.

I think what he may be referring to is some members that take the ROM's from a known cook and post it with screenshots in other forums and other language forums with potential to gain off someone else work. I know of 1 instance where a Link to a ROM for only a beta test ended up with more than 500 downloads when intended for less than 10. It was found posted around in different forums.
To reward someone for there hard work in customization is up to the community. I think most people know the ROM's are not the property of the cooks, but just the cooks work in rearranging, adding, deleting, and customizing. I for one can tell you the amount of donations most cooks receive is very small and in most cases would barely cover a unlimited account for downloads. I myself think of it as I'm cooking for myself and if other people like then that's ok too.

Hi
If I use HTC mobiles is because the cooked roms...
Iosu

NeoS2007 said:
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
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For me the first thing to do in order to solve this "problem" is to prohibit any "protected" ROM. I think its not fair to take official ressources, work with tools, which can be found in this forums, and then "protect" the ROM, claiming that its your own choice.
I don't think that this is the right way to go, as other (new) cookers could learn a lot from these ROMs.
But, I don't think that this is the "problem" that SlakerBoi is talking about, is it?

As these discussions tend to come and go every now and then ...
Indeed it costs a huge amount of time in the first place. And a lot of users appreciate the work all cooks are doing overhere. Besides the cooking giving people advise. I can tell you that most cooks share their knowledge. Not always visible to everyone but most of them have contact and help each other. Furthermore, is offering your rom for dumping without any guidance the best way to share?
Everyone that asks for a package, help or guidance in any way is supported in the cooking thread. Some did publish a very nice rom after some time. In my opinion it is a far better contribution then offering an open rom without any support.
The reason I cook my own roms the way I do is for speed purpose. If you have another opinion that is fine with me. But tolerate each other on having a different approach. These kind of statements in threads only give xda a bad vibe. Open your mind, when you want or need something ask for it. It's not supposed to be a tv diner anyway.

I quote you , my friend!

Well this is how it goes for a long time. I think if you don't like it, go somehwere else.
What will you get from debating??

SlakerBoi my first question for you is "have you every cooked a ROM?" i am sure your answer will be "No" because i know how much time n effords need to be put. When i cooked my first rom it took me 4 sleepless night to build a basic beta quality rom. After such a hard work someone reward you by donating. That feeling can't be said in words SlakerBoi. So please stop raising this type of question.
One more thing most of the ROM developers buy new phone with the donations they go so it's not a issue if they release rom for many devices.
Please don't continue this decisions so that this post will go to some corner.
MOD this post hurts lot of ppl feeling so please delete it.

before the flame wars starts
i am going to close this....as these questions will cause fighting.
if you have a problem with someone...contact them....don't post like this
you know this is only going to end in fighting.
thread closed.

As a chef, and a moderator (chef came first), I'll add my thoughts.
I started into cooking when AT&T released their official WM6.1 ROM for the Kaiser. I always liked the design of AT&T ROMs, but not all of the bloat they included... most of which could not be uninstalled. I had the very "simple" goal of removing the bloat in an attempt to speed up the ROM, and increase storage space.
Once I downloaded the ROM, and extracted it using KaiserKitchen, I immediately realized that I was in over my head. I am a very good with PC and Mac computers in the professional/personal world, but I had never looked at the contents of a decompiled WM ROM. There are hundreds of folders, 10,000+ files, and no real explanation of what you're looking at... that is where XDA-Developers came in.
Within 1 week of public release, I was ready with a ROM that could be considered "extreme beta". It worked, and it was fast, but it had quite a few glitches that could not have been discovered without a public release, and a few dozen people testing the ROM. One thing in the background, that is never seen, is the number of hours spent just flashing our phones (I am NOT counting the cooking process) with numerous revisions testing all the bugs/issues reported. My Tilt was flashed no less then 1000 times in it's life, and my Fuze has been through over 500 so far.
I consider myself to be a pretty good ROM chef. But I also know that I am far from the best, and that most of my knowledge came from the very large XDA-Developers community. Some ROM chefs do not share information about the inner workings of their ROM in the ROM thread itself, but a simple email/PM will usually get you the information you seek. Look at it this way: If someone uses a ROM as released, and has no desire to modify it, then why should the thread be clogged with hundreds of questions/answers relating to how this was done, or how that was done.
My ROMs are "protected" using RaphaelKitchen, but it wasn't always this way. It has been shown that merging the RGU/DSM files into one large file speeds up the ROM because you now have several hundred less files sitting on the device. In addition, I also release my kitchen, in it's complete form, when I release a new ROM version. People are free to download the kitchen, extract it to their computer, and fully customize my ROMs. I know this is a popular route, because my Fuze and Touch Pro kitchens have been downloaded over 100 times since v4.7 of my ROM came out last month.
On to donations... I have a donation link in my signature for people who wish to appreciate the amount of work/hours poured into creating custom WM ROMs. Just as my signature says, I never require monetary compensation, but I also accept whatever people give, because it allows me to improve my work. For example, I purchased WinCE CAB Creator with some of my donations, so that I could create CAB files of items removed from the ROM. I also maintain a Rapidshare Premium account so that I never have to delete any file uploaded to XDA. Another form of donation I received was web hosting on a fast server that provided an alternative to Rapidshare.
I've said all of this before, but it's been awhile, and I cannot find the post. In closing, I don't see anything wrong with the items you pointed out. We've had issues in the past with members who used donations as a way to obtain a piece of software (ROM or otherwise), and as soon as it was brought to our attention, it was dealt with.

Interesting debate - lifted for the wider audience

Guys, this was a response to a post from me and my subsequent response to it posted in the XannyTech ROM thread. I thought it would be best to open this to a wider community as I am sure many feel as I do, but are unsure how to better the operation as it currently stands.
As I specify at the end of the post, I am definitely NOT attacking the chefs, just trying to get the best possible solution for the vast majority of people and giving my reasoning behind it.
dafunk2 said:
Mate, I don't agree with you.
I know that these are things told and told again.....but:
- Did you install additional software?
- Did you try to uninstall any additional software?
- Did you try to do an Hard Reset?
- Did you do an Hard Reset after Flashing?
- Did you try to re-flash the rom?
- Did you try to download again the rom?
You can see by other people's feedbacks that this rom is probably the best, performing and stable one, and you cannot of sure tell that this rom is "bits and pieces untested in it", because the cooker and his team of betatesters of course cannot test anything under ANY circumsance and ANY configuration and ANY additional software installed and ANY...and ANY...and ANY....
I feel to tell you these few words because I don't like who don't respect other's hard work. Did you noticed how many releases is Xanny doing? And every release is better then the last...so if you are experiencing problems or probably bugs, please give respect to the cooker and explain in a civil and constructive way wich the bugs are, and you can be sure that the cooker will fix as soon as possible.
Keep in mind that the rom MUST be valued "nude and crude" like the cooker post it, and not after installed a miriad of sofwares in it.
Maybe it's not your case.......
.....but I'm bored to see stupid posts like your.
Escuse me in advance if I'm too "direct" with you, I respect anyone that respect other people.
Ciao from Italy
dafunk
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OK, firstly I take no offence to you being direct - it's sometimes the best way to be
Secondly, I have voiced my issues in a constructive and respectful manner within this thread before and many others from many other Chefs, but with little or sometimes no response.
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
I can't emphasise enough the respect I have for these people, but I do think that we are getting more quantity than quality. There are a number of issues (see bug tracker) with some of the later ROM's which quiet frankly were broken as a result of a new recipe.....working before and broken after is breaking the golden rule of a new software release!
At the end of all this I urge people to understand what I'm saying and not take it as an attack against the Chefs as this is most definitely NOT what this is.

oh and to add, I have tried flashing via USB and flashing via SD Card, and hard resetting a number of times after flash. As for not installing any software....I'm struggling to see the relevance of that suggestion. Do you think HTC test TouchFlo3D against every piece of software developed for the platform they implement their software on to check for compatibility? No.....what they do is adhere to coding standards and practices using certified API's and the like to make sure that 99% of the time everything should be fine.
Now I'm not suggesting the same level of testing for Chefs, but what I AM saying is that if these ROM's are basically tweaked stock ROM's (which the newer Leo ROMs are now it's live) then surely the inherent testing has been done and issues should be minimal. That being the case, why are there so many posts on cooked ROM threads stating issues?
Again, not being antagonistic, just trying to point something out. I appreciate the chefs, but I still want my phone to operate.

I can just offer my noob experience, I have encountered apps made for winmo6.1 to cause problems for winmo6.5. and often times custom made mods by fellow users such as tweaks and graphics, mods to tf3d etc often causes problems, maybe not for first release, but when a new piece of software comes, like now manila 2.5 and so many new releases, what was perfect yesterday causes major bugs today.
And as far as cooking a rom, i have had such thing happened to me that when just updating one package in the rom, the whole thing will not start, just a newer version of the same app. So every new sys, every new manila edition, every new modification is very possible to cause some new conflict, noticeable or not.
I think if we want to have the latest software availible on the market, you will never have that officially, then this is the way to go, and there will always be some sort of conflicts minor or major, the good thing is chefs that are willing to work to improve, workaround fix etc, i like xanny, and miri and several others who are present in their threads and actually communicating trying to solve the issues, some just post a rom and you wont hear from them again until next release. But everything here is from free will, you chose to flash a rom you do take a risk. But we have some good backup tools and autoconfig tools so flashing is not so very timeconsuming
But i have had stockroms freeze on me, lagging and very irritable, but hey i am glad being able to have custom roms, every chef bring their own flavor to the phone, and if you dislike all you can always start cooking yourself then you can twist and turn it however you prefer

Thanks for your input - I was fearing a bit of a flame war when I posted so I'm happy that the first person to reply was a mature one
I suppose you are right from the point of view that having the latest software means that the likelihood is that it will not be officially tested and verified. I just wish that I wasn't always "waiting for the next problem" to occur.
If I was really bothered I suppose I'd go back to Stock and make do, but then I'd CAB my phone up to breaking point with tweaks! - lose lose situation perhaps

the way i look at it, we should only be using stock ROMs. Cookers then put in the time to create great ROMs for us with the features of newer devices, allowing us to get more out of our devices. They ask for little in return, so i dont really think its fair to criticise their products, because were it not for them, we'd be using just stock ROMs. Just my way of looking at it

Wiggz said:
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
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It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are providing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one or go back to stock.
I'm pretty positive they understand we want a fully functional phone, not sure what your point is here.
If you don't like the new version of a ROM then don't upgrade, or try it then go back to the old version.
Although you say you appreciate what they're doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...

scotland101 said:
It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are doing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one.
Although you say you appreciate what their doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...
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I appreciate your point, and I can wholeheartedly see how my points could be perceived as aggressive towards chefs.
However, what I am trying to say is that whilst I understand I "don't need to use" these ROMs...why would anyone go to the time and effort to create a ROM if:
they didn't want people to use them, and
they didn't want it to be the best ROM out there with the fewest issues
I am simply saying that a few chefs are content with spewing out ROM after ROM without actually realising that people would prefer a recent-ish build release which was stable, and fast over a brand new ROM which was buggy.

personal opinion
Everyone must know that what these guys are doing is from their free time, and no one is forced to use their ROM`s. Who do use them, is doing that by free will. It may be that one of ROM is not that good that another, but you can go anytime to stock ROM, or the one you had before (like I did some times).
What I`m trying to say is that all we have to do is to say “thank you” to these guys who make possible that we all have a better device.
Keep up the good work and I salute you!

hehehe all very amusing, how you've made this into an issue I don't know...
chefs don't need to "understand" anything, they post it here with as much or as little description as they like!
luckily this forum is packed full of support tips faqs etc that there's really no need to ask chefs to be "very precise" and other such nonsense.
chefs can "spew" as much as they like, what the general public "prefer" is really not an issue, you are lucky that some of them reply and give you the help they do at all, in fact Xanny happens to give a lot of support for his roms and I can understand why he might feel just a little tired at some of the repetitive questions etc that get asked in his thread.
The fact the chefs reply at all should be help enough, you imply that you put "time and effort" into testing the roms...well that's lovely but it doesn't give you any extra gold stars.
This is not an attack against you, but you "need to understand" that there's nothing the chefs "need to understand" or do in order to please you or anyone else who take the time to test the roms, because noone is asking you to.

I think this pretty pointless thread has ran its purpose IMO. I believe all chef's put a lot of work into their roms and are trying to acheive the best rom, with the latest builds with no bugs. This is a hard enough task without people complaining about issues all the time which in general most chef's try to eradicate. No one wants bugs including chef's, but with newer builds appearing all the time, its inevitable you will get issues as these builds where not planned for the HD.
Think enough has been said on this subject
Thread closed

Rom reviews

Hello all Chefs and Rom users, I wanted to know how would you like if someone started a thread or site where they do in depth reviews on roms,chefs,and apps for htc phones? Would you find this useful and would you be willing to post your roms on a site that does this? Would you be interested in paying for adverstisement? Would you like for a donation link to be placed in your review or section on the site? Rom users, how useful do you think this site will be? I am open to all comments and questions. Thank to all in advance.

I think that would be a great idea, especially for the people who arent sure which rom they want or what they want on a rom or the people that are new to this scene. Maybe the site could include a list of things that are included in the roms. Such as does it have the latest .net compact framwork and things like that. Also it could be broken down into which roms would be best for which versions of the rhodium. Like T-mobile, at&t, sprint, verizon. And there could be a rating system letting users rate the roms. Just a few ideas to throw at you.

Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.

ohyeahar said:
Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.
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yeah i second this. The key thing about roms is that they differ in appeal for one person to the next. Most roms these days are nice and fast (certainly faster than stock) and so the additional factors may involve apps included, graphics and other features and although these are listed within the chefs thread as screenshots and lists, you only really know a rom is right for you once its in your hands and personally test-driven!
Agreed, it would be good to have an objective list of features of all current roms and comments of them in one place, however the info is already out there leaving the rest of the work up to the user!

ohyeahar said:
Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.
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I agree... With a UC cable ROM, a PC registry editor (CeRegistry, MobileRegistryEditor) and maybe SDConfig Builder along with PIM Backup I have it automated down to about 10 minutes...

i like it
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea

antdawg702 said:
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea
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I know what you mean. And I understand the intentions of everyone who starts one of these threads. But consider this:
-There are new ROM chefs popping up all the time.
-New releases of ROMs with multiple flavors are literally coming at a daily rate.
Who's going to keep track of all the chefs? Each chef may also release multiple ROMs. Who's going to keep track of all the ROM versions?
It's an impossible task, unless each chef voluntarily goes to a common thread to post about their own work. But frankly, I would rather the chef not waste their time doing that. I would rather them allocate their time to their ROM development.
Probably no one is going to argue that a review thread is a bad idea. It's a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work in practice.

Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc

geejayoh said:
Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc
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Click to collapse
Haha, this social networking site you're referring to exists. It's here at this forum! Each ROM thread is a profile. Each chef is registered here and the ROMs are released here. Users are free to review, comment, and make requests in the threads

Not a bad idea
antdawg702 said:
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea
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Click to collapse
I am in the same boat I flash roms all the time, and love this forum, It would be nice to have an alternate way to read about rom,chefs,apps,Htc phones,rumors.
Something that goes more in depth.

not a social networking site
geejayoh said:
Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am talking about a site,not really a social networking site, because that will just grow too huge and make it hard for some users to be able to get the info they are looking for. I am thinking more like a blog. Where you can search info and find different articles. There would be polls on roms. The rom may be reviewed with general info and people can leave comments. I just think it may be a way to narrow down this info for users to easily get to. Some are intimidated by huge sites. The site will have other info ,but will also lean more towards roms and chefs. The site would benefit rom users and chefs.

cant cover all roms
ohyeahar said:
I know what you mean. And I understand the intentions of everyone who starts one of these threads. But consider this:
-There are new ROM chefs popping up all the time.
-New releases of ROMs with multiple flavors are literally coming at a daily rate.
Who's going to keep track of all the chefs? Each chef may also release multiple ROMs. Who's going to keep track of all the ROM versions?
It's an impossible task, unless each chef voluntarily goes to a common thread to post about their own work. But frankly, I would rather the chef not waste their time doing that. I would rather them allocate their time to their ROM development.
Probably no one is going to argue that a review thread is a bad idea. It's a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work in practice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The site would not cover all roms,but would try to cover major releases and maybe the roms of chefs who want to link there roms to the site.

Thank You
Thank You to all who participated in this poll. Anyone who have not participated yet can still participate. It seems most members would enjoy a site like this one. I have updated my signature with the latest roms I am running. Thank you all!

ohyeahar said:
Haha, this social networking site you're referring to exists. It's here at this forum! Each ROM thread is a profile. Each chef is registered here and the ROMs are released here. Users are free to review, comment, and make requests in the threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reading from 40 to 400+ pages of a thread just to see what the rom is about isn't something I look forward to. I would like it if they were categorized. For example, search filters for all the roms that have sense 2.1 or all the roms that have 2.5, etc. Roms that are made specifically for a carrier would also be a nice filter. I also think a really good idea would be to make a program with the purpose of benchmarking a rom just to try and test the speed of how fast the rom really is. There are many more things that can be done. I think thewingster.com is a great example of this, but it can be taken to another level to make it much easier for users. There are many roms not posted on that site, but the popular ones are there.

I agree with some of the ideas here - sometimes it's just not feasible to wade through hundreds of pages ... For those who come here maybe once a week like me, this would be a good way of getting up to date quickly and maybe some of the n00b questions wouldn't happen as a result? (even I know how to get AT&T keyboard and my country doesn't have AT&T )
Maybe an extension of the current XDA wiki? And promote the wiki a bit more on the front page. The threads as they are in the forums would still serve the same basic purpose - feedback and debate etc.
The obvious question though is "who's gonna do it?" as the information would get outdated fast, and we can't expect the cooks to do it as they do enough already. And the people in the best position to do this (ie. the hardcore guys who come here every day) may not want to.
It's an interesting idea though.

MadBeef said:
I agree with some of the ideas here - sometimes it's just not feasible to wade through hundreds of pages ... For those who come here maybe once a week like me, this would be a good way of getting up to date quickly and maybe some of the n00b questions wouldn't happen as a result? (even I know how to get AT&T keyboard and my country doesn't have AT&T )
Maybe an extension of the current XDA wiki? And promote the wiki a bit more on the front page. The threads as they are in the forums would still serve the same basic purpose - feedback and debate etc.
The obvious question though is "who's gonna do it?" as the information would get outdated fast, and we can't expect the cooks to do it as they do enough already. And the people in the best position to do this (ie. the hardcore guys who come here every day) may not want to.
It's an interesting idea though.
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The site would have to be setup where anyone can add there own review. It takes user input to grow a site.

accent2k2 said:
The site would have to be setup where anyone can add there own review. It takes user input to grow a site.
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Yeah absolutely, but there would have to be at least some form of moderation / approval / cleanup process otherwise you will just get 500 comments that are "HAW DO I GET MY NOKIA TO DO TAHT" or "I BRICKED MY PHOEN COS I DIDNT READ" or "D/Ling NOW KAKAKA!!!!11" etc. (much like some of the threads here) And then a team has to put all this in place, keep the version numbers up-to-date, put screenshots up, etc. A news feed available via RSS would be great Remember that most cooks have at least 4 different ROMs available for each device at a time. (Manila 2.1, 2.5, Titanium, AT&T dialer, WM6.5, WM6.5.1-3 etc)
Right now there must be 20 - 30 different ROMs available just for the TP2. Someone with some level of trust would need to be in charge. To quote an old phrase, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" And it would always have to be up-to-date otherwise there is no point.
Don't get me wrong it would be good to see something like this, it's a great idea. Kinda like what would happen if there was a train wreck involving the wiki and the forum haha but I think you may be underestimating the amount of work it will take.
I've often thought it would be better to have multiple threads per ROM, one for reviews, one for bugs, one for general chat, etc. Maybe even a sub-forum for each cook or each ROM.
I dunno I never said I had the answers Just throwing ideas round

MadBeef said:
Yeah absolutely, but there would have to be at least some form of moderation / approval / cleanup process otherwise you will just get 500 comments that are "HAW DO I GET MY NOKIA TO DO TAHT" or "I BRICKED MY PHOEN COS I DIDNT READ" or "D/Ling NOW KAKAKA!!!!11" etc. (much like some of the threads here) And then a team has to put all this in place, keep the version numbers up-to-date, put screenshots up, etc. A news feed available via RSS would be great Remember that most cooks have at least 4 different ROMs available for each device at a time. (Manila 2.1, 2.5, Titanium, AT&T dialer, WM6.5, WM6.5.1-3 etc)
Right now there must be 20 - 30 different ROMs available just for the TP2. Someone with some level of trust would need to be in charge. To quote an old phrase, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" And it would always have to be up-to-date otherwise there is no point.
Don't get me wrong it would be good to see something like this, it's a great idea. Kinda like what would happen if there was a train wreck involving the wiki and the forum haha but I think you may be underestimating the amount of work it will take.
I've often thought it would be better to have multiple threads per ROM, one for reviews, one for bugs, one for general chat, etc. Maybe even a sub-forum for each cook or each ROM.
I dunno I never said I had the answers Just throwing ideas round
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Makes since thanks

Need a standardized way to compare ROMs

With hundreds (guessing) ROMs now posted for the TP2 is there a way to get a gauge on which ones are better at what things. WITHOUT LOOKING AT EVERY ROM POST. I want to upgrade from 6.1 but every post ROM I have looked at seems to have some caveat about this or that not working (GPS, MMS, etc.). Its very difficult to contrast and compare the different ROMs. Maybe we can develop a form that devs can complete when uploading a ROM to give a clear, concise, and standardized view of the features and caveats on their ROMs. This would make it much easier to decide which one to use.
Thanks to everyone that has ever posted a meaning message to this forum.
EDIT: I am not complaining about the caveats. This is about the information that we need to know about the ROMs available. I want to make an informed decision on which caveats are acceptable to me. Sorry if it reads poorly.

Yeah most cooked roms dont have near to polish of a stock rom. However, most of these guys build these roms for basically free. The "scene" is drivin by its member so if you want something done that noone else is doing you should work to make it happen yourself. Its not like your a customer and get to complain...
Good idea for sure tho.

Great
Thats a great idea I hope that it happens.

I know what you mean, and I agree with you to a certain extent. When I first came here, I was totally confused and bewildered by the number of different ROMs. There's certainly no way you can read the whole thread for each ROM, there's way too much.
I think you'll find the ROMs are a lot more stable than you think. If you want to stick with stability, I'd go with Sense (TouchFlo3D) 2.1, not 2.5. But that still gives you plenty of choice. Have a look at some screenshots, see if there's one that looks nice to you and seems to contain the features you need, try flashing it and see how you go. If you don't like it, you can easily change and flash a different one.
Or another approach is to look at the threads which seem the most "popular" and try one of those, banking on there being a lot of people to help you, in the same situation, and that "so many people" can't be wrong ?

Jaykno said:
Yeah most cooked roms dont have near to polish of a stock rom. However, most of these guys build these roms for basically free. The "scene" is drivin by its member so if you want something done that noone else is doing you should work to make it happen yourself. Its not like your a customer and get to complain...
Good idea for sure tho.
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Whoo Dude... back off. Im not complaining about anyones work. Nor am I knocking ANY of the work done here. This is simply a feeler to see if the cooks would be up to it standardizing the info about their work and if its a good idea or not. Notice I said "Maybe WE can develop...", that includes me.

Good Idea
I think u right there. The cooks are done a fantastic jobs their to provide us with such amount of their free time and fabulous ROMS. However, each cook choose a different orientation for their ROM, i mean some want to have max free mem, others go for esthetics, etc etc.
It would be nice if we can have a sort of specs (hmmm well i hope u get the idea here) that we can check to know which type of ROM it is, which is working or not and so on and so on.

If I created a list (word or excel) of all features and functions of the TP2 then had the cooks complete them for the ROMs and send them to me. I could then compile them all into a database that would display ROMs side by side with a feature list checkbox table. (No sense making the cooks do alot of initial data entry... that stuff sucks. ) We could then make direct comparisons of each one. All they would need to do is keep me updated with the latest ROM info and I can keep the DB updated. Once the feature list is stabilized I could turn on the feature where they could be able to update the info themselves.
I don't mind doing the development of this if the cooks are up for this idea. I can't cook a ROM but I can code a db/website.