Database Develop

Which ROM recomend to my cingular 8125

Hi folks
Actually I have a cingular 8125 CID & SIM unlocked, it work with lokiwiz. I would like to know wich ROM update do you recomend me to put inside it and the procedure to do that. I´m a completly neebie.
My Wizard says
ROM version 1.8.11.1 WWE
ROM date 11/24/05
Radio Version 01.16.11
Protocol version 4.0.13.21
ExtROM 1.8.11.103
Flash chip type : M-Systems G3
Model No.: WIZA100
Thanks a lot
:shock:

jefferson_paredes said:
Hi folks
Actually I have a cingular 8125 CID & SIM unlocked, it work with lokiwiz. I would like to know wich ROM update do you recomend me to put inside it and the procedure to do that. I´m a completly neebie.
My Wizard says
ROM version 1.8.11.1 WWE
ROM date 11/24/05
Radio Version 01.16.11
Protocol version 4.0.13.21
ExtROM 1.8.11.103
Flash chip type : M-Systems G3
Model No.: WIZA100
Thanks a lot
:shock:
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I recommend you stay with the stock rom. You don't want to take the time to read, you don't want to take the time to learn, and I quote:
jefferson_paredes said:
I´m a completly neebie.
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Click to collapse

Thanks for the useless response.
Actually Im reading a lot of stuff about the AKU 2.3, learning about the experience about of version 2.17. but I think someone can give your opinion or advice about the diferent versions.
Thanks again for nothing.

jefferson_paredes said:
Thanks for the useless response.
Actually Im reading a lot of stuff about the AKU 2.3, learning about the experience about of version 2.17. but I think someone can give your opinion or advice about the diferent versions.
Thanks again for nothing.
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Click to collapse
This forum is not for the faint of heart. It is halfway expected that you experiment and read up on other's experiences before asking for help. Most folks here did precisely that and have learned from experience and mistakes, that is why you'll receive that kind of response.
My recommendation to you is to start with the newly released ROM from Cingular and after you get your feet wet, you can move on to bigger and bolder moves. I used to have a "cooked" ROM but I have since moved onto the new stock rom without the extended rom and it has served me well.

jlczl said:
My recommendation to you is to start with the newly released ROM from Cingular and after you get your feet wet, you can move on to bigger and bolder moves. I used to have a "cooked" ROM but I have since moved onto the new stock rom without the extended rom and it has served me well.
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This is helpful
Thanks

I also had the original ROM. I upgraded to 2.17 first and then to 2.25 original ROM from Cingular. I have heard that some folks had problems downgrading so I have only gone up. Eventually summiter will have a modified version that covers new stuff.
I now have push email that I think is great. Go sign up on www.mail2web.com for mail2web live. And go to your email provider and forward but do not delete from the server you email to your mail2web.com exchange server. Then set up ActiveSync to the mail2web server settings. It is great. The email shows up on your phone sometimes before it shows up on your Outlook.

jefferson_paredes said:
Thanks for the useless response.
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Garbage in, garbage out. Sticks and stones mate.
Posting what you did, I gave you exactly what you should have expected. I'm not going to tell you to go ahead, void your warranty, and you some how brick your device by flashing it wrong or using the wrong rom, Summiter's projects or not.
I'm merely stating that with the lack of information you provided, and the type of post you made (which as been done many times), you should have thought a little harder about what you're getting into.
I personally don't want to be responsible for you flashing your device, and neither does the author of the custom rom you may choose. My statement of "stick with the stock rom" also applies to recommended STOCK upgrades, such as the one found here:
http://www.htcamerica.net/support/software_downloads_8125.htm
I still don't recommend you electing to flash a custom rom until you are more confident about the possibility of dumping $700 worth of phone as a paper weight. There is always the chance you will brick your device. If you do it with a stock rom, then the provider's warranty kicks in and they have to take the dive, not you or your pocket book.
So dear sir, for the lame attempt at shoving my post right back in my face, it was actually quite helpful if you bothered, once again, to read, read, and read some more. I'm not doing this to flame you, I'm not doing this to be a tard or a ****... but I am taking the voice of many users here who heed caution to you, because using a customized rom is a serious matter, and should be taken into consideration when a $700 device may be bricked.
Just trying to cautiously make you aware of the circumstances. My recommendation: stick with stock - upgrades are a part of stock roms and don't void your warranty (as long as they don't investigate the SuperCID unlocking you did, you're all gravy).
Cheers! and best of luck on your ROM hunt.

Once again, another seasoned poster on this board comes across as a total A-hole to someone brand new here,
Maybe in your circles this is the way you and your buddies interact. And for some who have been here a while they may learn to understand your inflections.
But YOU should realize that this new poster needs to get oriented to this board and HELP point him in the right direction. THAT is YOUR responsibility as an old timer here. And yes you WERE flaming him on the initial response.
As Charles Barkley said " I ain't no role model" well get used to it. YOU ARE A ROLE MODEL as well as everyone else here who knows the ins and outs. And your

jschaff said:
Once again, another seasoned poster on this board comes across as a total A-hole to someone brand new here,
Maybe in your circles this is the way you and your buddies interact. And for some who have been here a while they may learn to understand your inflections.
But YOU should realize that this new poster needs to get oriented to this board and HELP point him in the right direction. THAT is YOUR responsibility as an old timer here. And yes you WERE flaming him on the initial response.
As Charles Barkley said " I ain't no role model" well get used to it. YOU ARE A ROLE MODEL as well as everyone else here who knows the ins and outs. And your
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I agree 100% with your post. the post made by mengesb was useless and unnecessary.

We have no responsibilities here to instruct you ...
If you don't take the time to research, then that's your decision. If you don't like a response, that's your call.
We try to help all who show a desire to learn. Be careful of who you offend when you ***** about an "Old Timer" that's responding to a Posting that has very little information regarding the knowledge of the Poster.
Me personally, I'm tired of *****ing.. I'm tired of folks like you. I get annoyed at responding to the same questions because no one can read back a few posts.
If we displease you... maybe look for help somewhere else.
I'm noticing that fewer and fewer of the "old timer's" are responding... wonder why?
Steven
chow

To answer the question, the best rom IMHO currently is Summiter's multi-installer AKU2.3 package. He's fixed many of the initial gotcha's and the result is the best radio/AKU combination for the 8125. The only issue is a pesky Times New Roman font that occasionally crops up.
Once SIM & CID unlocked, you'll have no pblms installing this one with your v3 chipset.

Dr Puttingham said:
We have no responsibilities here to instruct you ...
If you don't take the time to research, then that's your decision. If you don't like a response, that's your call.
We try to help all who show a desire to learn.
Me personally, I'm tired of *****ing.. I'm tired of folks like you. I get annoyed at responding to the same questions because no one can read back a few posts.
I'm noticing that fewer and fewer of the "old timer's" are responding... wonder why?
Steven
chow
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I can understand where you're coming from. I'm pretty "new" to these forums, as well -- actually, though . . . NOT!! I "lurked" for a LONG time before I ever started posting and read every thread I could find about upgrading, tweaking, hacking, etc., etc.
I'm coming from a Carrier's customer forum where I feel about THAT forum the same way the "old-timers" here feel about noobs posting questions. It seems like every 4 - 6 weeks, there's an influx of noobs, and they all keep asking the same questions over and over again, without taking the time to use the site's search feature, and we "old-timers" get tired of answering the same questions over and over again, and get extremely frustrated that posters WON'T take the time to do a search and read and apply before posting. AAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!! I mean, the answers to 75% of the questions that are asked are right in the User's Manual, for Pete's Sake!!
So, I'm now spending more of my time here reading, researching, applying and THEN asking, if need be. Much more productive information over here, anyway. So, I can see BOTH SIDES of this coin -- both as a relative noob here and as a seasoned veteran of the other forum.
Personally, though, the main reason I don't post more often than I do is that I feel pretty much intimidated with all of the knowledge and the members WITH that knowledge on this forum. But, I will also be quick to say that when I had a problem with a tweak, or a hack that I couldn't seem to overcome, there have been those who have bent over backwards for me to help when I would PM them about it, and THAT was very much appreciated. The ones who have gone that "extra mile" have never in any way made me feel inferior to them when it comes to developmental issues I've inquired about.
From lurking around on here, I've turned into a virtual SPONGE, trying to soak it all in and learn all there is to learn. . . so, bear with me if I should happen to be the one asking a question -- ok??

Lurking is good. The best way to learn here is by lurking and reading, and not just reading selected postings for a day or two. So many questions have already been asked and just need to be found. These forums move quickly and sometimes one needs to go back a few pages to find something and the search COULD be better, but that's the way it is.
I was referring to those that call mengesb names, etc because he didn't give them the answer that they wanted. Actually I thought that he put more time and understanding into answering the OP than I might have, given the information presented. And no, he didn't flame the author.
And I, for one, might not go all out to help someone that responds in such a manner should they need assistance in the future. I mean, who wants to offer advise and risk being called an A-Hole? Not me, that's for sure!
That's just my opinion.
Steven

As someone relatively new to this forum, I've tried to take the same tack as newbie2 and lurk as much as I can. However, even the most comprehensive community cannot answer any and all questions that someone may have. The key here is to be able to differentiate between valid questions asked by someone who's new, and idiotic questions asked by someone who doesn't care to do some research.
That being said, even with about a week’s worth of research I have yet to find a definitive answer as to which custom ROM is the best, and, because we are a community of volunteers, a lot of documentation that would exist for a commercial product is missing. Now that's to be expected, and I don't fault the ROM developer for building what is essentially, something for him, that he shares with the community. However, given that this documentation either doesn't exist or is distinctly lacking, I think the community that the ROM is shared with could be a bit more forthcoming with information, either by making it available in a wiki or in these forums. Keyword searching to try to find the best extended ROM gives a whole bunch of people asking which one is best, as well as the two or three large threads with either summiter's ROM or MrClean's.
Now I know that experimenting can be the best way to find out the information that I seek, but when it's possible to brick a $400 piece of electronics simply by experimenting, one has to be as prudent and careful as possible. That's a frightening proposition and it puts a lot of newbies in a difficult position.
So to conclude this rather verbose post, the best thing that can be done is for the older and more experienced posters to simply respond with a bit of information about the topic being asked, and then if there is a more specific question, to explain to the poster that they can search for this info. This gives newer people that do search and do research the benefit of information shared from more experienced posters without hopefully clogging up the forum with tons of the same question.

Words of caution - and some help
By far, as many of the thread lurkers here can say, the roms submitted by Summiter are probably the better quality roms. But, in light of things, you have a few options:
Mr. Clean ROMs
Summiter's ROMs
Mobiz ROMs
these are the three that I've seen around these parts. Mr. Clean roms are a derrivitive of Summiter's projects, which basically clean out the carrier customization. If you don't like carrier customizations, then this rom would be the best for you.
For those of us who like to use carrier customizations, we usually elect to use Summiter's roms. They typically are very stable, fast, and come already with the generally pre-defined or commonly desired hacks located in the wiki.
As for the Mobiz ROMs, I cannot say one thing or another. I've only recently seen talk about them in the past month or so, and I'm not going to speak of a product I don't have personal experience from.
I don't want to come off complete as a jack ass, but you also do understand where I'm coming from - if my recommendation nukes your device, who's the first person you're going to flame? Me or the Author of that ROM. I've been experimenting with my own ROM customizations myself, and let me tell you, even I haven't dared flash one of my own creations because numerous people here have nuked their devices doing that very thing! I... for now... like many other people await for a seasoned ROM cooking professional to work on those waffles until the ROM feels right - Summiter.
What I will always recommend a new comer is to stick with a stock rom, and do as many minor adjustments to their device as possible just to simply make it faster. If Summiter would post is SummSumm.cab file, that would be perfect for you honestly! You wouldn't void your warranty, and that cab has a lot of good registry hacks to make your device nice and speedy.
When you're ready, and know the concequences, there will be people here to help you attempt to save your device if it does get in trouble. Here's a quick note in that event:
If for some reason your flash fails, or gets interrupted (either by you unplugging the USB cable because you think its hanging; or the dreaded BSOD - blue screen of death), when your device reboots, hold down the camera key. This should load you into the bootloader if its not completely nuked. If you get a tri-color (RGB) screen with/without some white and a 'USB' marking above the left soft key, then you're still good. Resume the updater and don't interupt it.
I'm sure this is a more polite way of giving you the information you seek - and helps you to being well on your way to the club of warranty voided 8125's like many of us here pay our memberships to. I always want to have the voice of this, "Flashing your device can brick your $400-650 investiment - you have been warned."
I'd also recommend searching posts made by the following: machinagod, summiter, Dr Puttingham, and kyphur.

The warranty warning is a valid issue. And the latest ROM release by Cingular is an OK ROM. In your position I'd probably upgrade to that official version and install one of the various reg tweaks cabs available here. I've been using Molski's speed tweaks contribution and notice a marked improvement when using any of the ROMs'.
I personally go back and forth between sumitter's latest, the PDA Mobiz (cuz I like some of the add-ins) and a test ROM that faria made special for me.
If you decide to chance your warranty that's your decision. Actually very few folks that have painstaking followed the procedure have bricked their phones but there's always that chance. I made a conscious decision at the beginning of the year when I got my Wizard that .. first, I had to have direct push and second, if I DID brick my phone I'd consider it a $300 paperweight and blame no one but myself.
I've flashed my phone at least a dozen times I'm sure, in addition to maybe 10 or so of my clients. Luckily I've never bricked a phone yet but a lot of that isn't luck. If you go this route and decide to use an unofficial ROM you must CID and SIM unlock. There are those that say different but sumitter, faria and other custom ROM builders say "do", up to you.
Anything we can help you with, ask.
Steven
chow

I have a TMo MDA and am a six-week-old noob, but learning fast, having spent probably 1000 hours reading posts from here and HoFo. I've decided to keep the stock ROM, at least for the time being, for the reasons cited in previous replies here. Also, in almost every case with the custom ROM's there is a minority that have problems, either small or big, and that has led me away from the adventure of ROM burning. Plus, my stock ROM works fine for me and I'm only having one problem that may be solved by now. It has no major quirks, has enough memory remaining, and rarely crashes.
What bothers me about the custom ROM's is the undercetainty of some of the steps. Do I need Lokowiz and if so which version? Some say you must use the older 2a under some circumstances. With at least one ROM upgrade you can upgrade if you have ROM "X," but if you have "Y" you must downgrade to "Z" first and then upgrade. I entertained the possibility of just doing a hard-reset, then omit the TMo extended ROM, but nowhere could I find info on what I'm missing by eliminating it. Will the phone function at 100% without it? Can I selectively run the CAB's, and if so who makes a list of what is in each CAB? Too many questions for which I see no answers, or foggy ones. Someone needs to write a comprehensive FAQ on these topics.
I did do the slit-antenna mod, which did help a bit, and that was only one day into my MDA ownership. That was a big jump and didn't seem like a risky move like the fingers-crossed, heart-pumping, adrenaline rush of flashing your ROM. I also have installed apps and tweaks that have made the MDA a pleasant experience so far.
My advice would be to play with your new phone for a while and ask yourself, "Am I happy with the way this works," then read about other ROMs available and ask yourself another question: "Will this help enhance my PDA-phone experience in any meaningful way, or do I just like the rush of playing in the street?" Then decide if the improvements, if any, are worth the risks. So far for me they are not...but who knows what will happen tomorrow.

I feel like a commercial here, but I think for newbies (as me) the mobiz ROM has a the usefull stuff, it has all tweaks, programs etc.
I still like it and keep on using it.

Everybody is a cooking master these days?

Pretty wierd, Itje has been in-active for a couple of days (probably due to easter) and all of a sudden everybody is "releasing" roms like its there speciality?
And when i read these threads and somebody askes a simple thing as "are you putting youtube in it?" i see answers like "it is pretty hard to get youtube up and running, i dont know how to do that"..
Is this something everybody wants to see? Imo cooking/releasing roms should be done only by people who have the knowledge and knowhow off everything.

FalkenX said:
Pretty wierd, Itje has been in-active for a couple of days (probably due to easter) and all of a sudden everybody is "releasing" roms like its there speciality?
And when i read these threads and somebody askes a simple thing as "are you putting youtube in it?" i see answers like "it is pretty hard to get youtube up and running, i dont know how to do that"..
Is this something everybody wants to see? Imo cooking/releasing roms should be done only by people who have the knowledge and knowhow off everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they want to try to cook, why not?
It's only a win-win situation
They learn more & have more experiences and maybe they'll even getting better than Itje

very very succinctly put..
jerpeleas kitchen is very very simple to use.
and is perfect for creating that "personal rom"
unfortunately, whats happening is what often happens, and is that everyone suddenly decides to throw out that personal rom for public consumption.
now i think its great that people are trying things out, but i do think, ladies and gentlemen that you should keep your experiments a bit more "internal" at least till you understand what you're doing a bit better..
please??

fards said:
very very succinctly put..
jerpeleas kitchen is very very simple to use.
and is perfect for creating that "personal rom"
unfortunately, whats happening is what often happens, and is that everyone suddenly decides to throw out that personal rom for public consumption.
now i think its great that people are trying things out, but i do think, ladies and gentlemen that you should keep your experiments a bit more "internal" at least till you understand what you're doing a bit better..
please??
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Agreed. Glad to see more cooks or more people willing to learn to cook. But sad to see lots of them either unfinished, or not tested fully w/ lots of bugs here and there. And I don't see any unique features/characteristic/fixes among most of them since all are based on the same kitchen without going into details to learn and create.

In other words, people, if you wanna try to cook your own roms thats your own choice, but stop the posting on the forums if there arent any new feautures/bug fixes in it.

alway nice to see more people cooking.
but like myself i cooked a rom with jerpelea's kitchen.
i twisted and turned allot over and made it to my personal favors.
but i won't release for public just because it is to my own taste and i know that allot of peoplehere have different choises and willings.
it's great that cooking is made easy for everybody but if you don't have the real knowledge like our first timer chefs keep it for yourself and enjoy it as much as you can!
but hey..
that's just me

The word is not "cook" kids: it's READ and SEARCH.
Spread the word
I cook
You cook
He cooks
She cooks
We cook
You cook
They cook
But jerpelea is the biggest cooker of them all !!
Been cooking since january over WinMo 6.5, nothing worth sharing yet... until jerpelea uploaded his kitchen and I solved 6 weeks of problems in 6 minutes:
I eagerly read all 49 pages of his suggestions/tips, and included a couple of his packages into my own recipe, now I can fire the oven

knaplullig said:
alway nice to see more people cooking.
but like myself i cooked a rom with jerpelea's kitchen.
i twisted and turned allot over and made it to my personal favors.
but i won't release for public just because it is to my own taste and i know that allot of peoplehere have different choises and willings.
it's great that cooking is made easy for everybody but if you don't have the real knowledge like our first timer chefs keep it for yourself and enjoy it as much as you can!
but hey..
that's just me
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yup I've been cooking my own for a while now, but I've never released one.. mostly as I do it to learn more..

ive made 6.5/manila2 roms but havnt uploaded them because of this whole situation.
I do think however its better that ppl make their own roms and learn more about their phones then being a drone to somone else.
Its too bad that some in the past ruined it for some to truelly learn what needs to be changed in some cases. because alot of cooks are protecting their roms. so disecting their rom to see whats really in it is a bit harder then normal.
not speaking down to itje or about him. but if we were able to truely dissasemble his rom we could find out why myfaves doesnt work.
but cooking my own rom i got myfaves working but using jerpelea kitchen i get dumb little bugs

FalkenX said:
but stop the posting on the forums if there arent any new feautures/bug fixes in it.
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That's not what I mean. But I wish new cooks instead to rush out a buggy rom (especially for 6.5 which is still beta and still with lots of issues w/ X1), could spent more time in clean up and bugfix, then release an tested and quality rom. It just a waste of time of you and your users if your rom is too buggy to be useful. Or released roms w/ features/softwares w/ bugs and issues that you don't have idea how to get them fix.

I kinda like to see all the new ROMS out. We went from 1 or 2 to a bunch. Granted there are a lot of buggy ROMS and people should do a lot more searching and more beta testing but being one of the new cooks i can see the reason for trying to release it. Some people use there phones completely differently that you do so i would think that others would find bugs that you don't. I know when i released my lite rom there were issues that i never even thought of trying so i had like 5 versions in like 2 weeks.
Most people don't add new features because a lot of the stuff is hard to come by in my opinion that is. They just release a different take on the programs and features.
I dunno just my take....

shadowmike said:
Its too bad that some in the past ruined it for some to truelly learn what needs to be changed in some cases. because alot of cooks are protecting their roms. so disecting their rom to see whats really in it is a bit harder then normal.
not speaking down to itje or about him. but if we were able to truely dissasemble his rom we could find out why myfaves doesnt work.
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I am not sure if this is his true intention. But you got to understand this is the side effect that the Bepe's kitchen he use (which is a lot more effieicent and easy to manage, and I start to use it as well since my V3.x series).
In fact, Itje is very generous in sharing what he could share in the Chef sharing thread, or his own threads w/ the helps from Fards, Akp99 (man, how come I don't have such an helpful team???). All you need is search, or ask the right man.

I have seen the same thing..
I welcome new chefs..its all good, but as said before, its not the "real" work of chefs, its more a "Ikea" sollution, buy/get the kitchen parts..put it together and use it at home...
And as jack said, please guys keep making roms..its cool..but rather then releasing roms that others has made (Jerpelea) try to make one from scratch...
I must also admit with this new wave of chefs, it also keeps getting very annoying that many of the new rom makers keep sending pm's, e-mails and adds me to msn. It didnt bother me at start, but now Its getting pretty frustrating.
And I am not even allowed to say no, they keep on coming asking for everything I know, everything I got..and if I say no, im a cocky mofo who wants to be the topchef all by himself..etc etc
I have to be rude, and I have to put ppls requests down. If not, I would not have time to do make new roms, because I was personally guiding everyone else.
That IS NOT why im here. I have no interest at all beeing a teacher...I can share stuff, but then I also like to get something back (not talking donations here) and that is a more respectful tone, specialy when I decline helping.
But, I try to point ppl in the right directions..telling them what to look for or where to find a thread with the stuff they need..usually that is not enough...cause they keep coming back asking what to look for....
But then I dont reply, because if you cant find it, then you can find another hobby..and that I dont back up on..
I have been searching this forums, so many times for new stuff, to learn new things, and I STILL DO.
I help if I can, I share when I can..but dont add me to msn to ask for cooking help. Cause you wont get it..sorry.
I know this post can be considered a bit off topic..but then again, its not..cause that is whats happening "behind the scene" of all the new "chefs"
Im sorry if this offends anyone..and im sure there is ppl among the new guys that are gonna get way better then me in this...after all, its just a hobby

I dont like ppl dissambling my roms
I tried for some time to have open roms..damn I even left in the rgus, so ppl could dump the rom and recook for personal use..
But what they didnt know was that I hid some small codes in the base of the rom
So when suddenly new roms started popping up..from ppl claiming it was their own work...can you guys guess what I found in the roms???? nahhhh..guess one more time
Then I made some "rules" Do not recook and release my roms, or I will protect them...
To bad..it still happened...
So I locked my roms, and if ppl dont like it...I dont care

Oh please don't take what ive said the wrong way. I understand the reasoning behind it.
not to be that guy but i still get the files i need from ur rom. like new images for replacement of the old green highlights.
but i also respect your work to not release anything as i understand how time consuming it is.
as i used to skin for psp's and windows mobile 6 and 6.1 standard neo and sliding panel home screens.

I have to say I've been reading this thread with particular interest, as I could be considered one of the "chefs" Itje is talking about as I recently asked him to point me in the direction of how to create ROMs. I personally found in all the custom ROMs that I tried several different little tweaks or something that I didn't use and wouldn't use and all I can say to people is, unless you've created a new TF3D or something HUGE then don't publicise ROMs - Once i eventually learn how to create on, I will simply use it just to create a ROM that is PERFECT for ME - and then I will work on creating something spectacular!
And that's my 15minutes of fame for the day
Nirave
P.S. I've just re-read the post and there is no hidden meaning in what I said regarding asking Itje! I know it sounds like there is, but there's not !

I'll open it out a little more: If anyone can help a long-time reader, small-time poster (ME!) and point me in the direction of how to create a custom ROM I'll be ever grateful
thanks
nirave

nirave said:
I have to say I've been reading this thread with particular interest, as I could be considered one of the "chefs" Itje is talking about as I recently asked him to point me in the direction of how to create ROMs. I personally found in all the custom ROMs that I tried several different little tweaks or something that I didn't use and wouldn't use and all I can say to people is, unless you've created a new TF3D or something HUGE then don't publicise ROMs - Once i eventually learn how to create on, I will simply use it just to create a ROM that is PERFECT for ME - and then I will work on creating something spectacular!
And that's my 15minutes of fame for the day
Nirave
P.S. I've just re-read the post and there is no hidden meaning in what I said regarding asking Itje! I know it sounds like there is, but there's not !
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dont worry, im not aiming at any person...but its a typical thing...its the same over and over again...same way

I dont see any problems in all these new roms. If there is nothing special, people wont be interested so that the "problem" will be solved by itself.

itje said:
dont worry, im not aiming at any person...but its a typical thing...its the same over and over again...same way
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Yes, I'm an Ikea cook, as Itje said. I'm only ever after a bare-bones ROM with whatever XIP\SYS improvements updates may provide.
I once published one of my "Ikea assembly" efforts for my earlier Eten X500, acknowledging the base was from PDAVIET, and was inundated with requests, complaints etc etc. So now I just use these Ikea efforts.
Question: does anyone know why official ROM updates seem never to use NETCF3.5 over v2.xx ?
V3.5 has been available for well over 18 months now

[DEBATE] this forum, cooked roms, chefs and donations...

guys,
please read the text below and let me know what you think about it...
although people try to mask the situation by giving it good names the truth is that this is happening and something has to be done before things get worse.
some folks are using this forum to sell what they call 'their' products. they get these ROMs, they make changes to it by adding or removing software. then they publish it as if they are 'sharing' their 'work' but, strangely, they do it in a very commercial way by naming their 'work' with appealing words to get attention.
when these ROMs go published, they often take a few first posts of the thread as they have a lot of information to add..... and screenshots to publish..... and donations to 'suggest'...... and donors' names to publish.
sometimes it will happen that a few folks who are trying these home cooked ROMs with applications that are less likely to be used by most people will end up having serious problems that eventually will get fixed by the 'chef' .... on a new version.
the principle of sharing a piece of work entirely made by yourself is that it cannot be asked anything in exchange otherwise, even if slightly suggested, it's nothing but a sale and by getting copyrighted software, making changes to it, 'sharing' and suggesting donations from the testers, well.... i'm pretty sure this isn't completely nice.... and either legal.
although i never really bothered to look into these roms to see what's really inside them (even flashing them on my phones sometimes) i decided to do it earlier this week. the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
another interesting thing is that if you look into the other subforums carefully you'll see that the same chefs often publish roms for more than one handset which gets me thinking two things: 1) do they really have all these handsets they publish ROMs for? 2) if so, are these roms really tested before they go online?
i don't want to be seen as a troublemaker cause it seems that these folks have made a living out of this cooked rom thing and they appear to have gotten themselves a pretty nice bunch of fans too. however, what i want with this thread is to raise a debate and the reason is that i really like this forum and i'm concerned about something that is happening and i completely disagree.

So what is your main concern?
That the chefs would like to have donations?
Or that someone takes a pile of code and alters it not according to the original programmer?
abe

big people talk about idea..
small people talk about other people..

You have a point with "selling someone else's code, slightly altered and selling it as your own", but I think the ROM cookers only like donations for the work they do tuning the original roms and most of the time adding functionality to the device. A lot of the "better known" chefs have gathered testers around them, so most of the bugs are gone before a release.

What exactly is the debate? Where are the facts/proof that this is occuring? you cant make such a statement without backing it up with some evidence.

I know some chefs actually put ALOT of time and effort into cooking a rom, testing it and informing the community about any errors found.
I've cooked a Rom or two myself and am working on a driver set for MSM devices. It takes ALOT of my time to do so and it's not only for my own benefit. Thank God there are people out there who help me with that. (you know who you are, if you're reading this)
I'm not saying that it's right to pass your ROMs off as your own, but I do know some chefs are better in making the devices perform alot better than HTC's programmers do. And if people want to reward them for their time and effort through donations, who am I to question that?
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
Just my 2 cents.

Well, I think that if they "invest" lot of their time (and they do), it is ok to have donation button. Nobody if forceing you to pay for rom. If you like it you can donate. Fair deal if you ask me!
SlakerBoi said:
guys,
the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
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This part I don't like. I think that they shouldn't do that, because in that case, like you said, roms are in some way being sold. That is not in the spirit of xda.

I think what he may be referring to is some members that take the ROM's from a known cook and post it with screenshots in other forums and other language forums with potential to gain off someone else work. I know of 1 instance where a Link to a ROM for only a beta test ended up with more than 500 downloads when intended for less than 10. It was found posted around in different forums.
To reward someone for there hard work in customization is up to the community. I think most people know the ROM's are not the property of the cooks, but just the cooks work in rearranging, adding, deleting, and customizing. I for one can tell you the amount of donations most cooks receive is very small and in most cases would barely cover a unlimited account for downloads. I myself think of it as I'm cooking for myself and if other people like then that's ok too.

Hi
If I use HTC mobiles is because the cooked roms...
Iosu

NeoS2007 said:
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
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For me the first thing to do in order to solve this "problem" is to prohibit any "protected" ROM. I think its not fair to take official ressources, work with tools, which can be found in this forums, and then "protect" the ROM, claiming that its your own choice.
I don't think that this is the right way to go, as other (new) cookers could learn a lot from these ROMs.
But, I don't think that this is the "problem" that SlakerBoi is talking about, is it?

As these discussions tend to come and go every now and then ...
Indeed it costs a huge amount of time in the first place. And a lot of users appreciate the work all cooks are doing overhere. Besides the cooking giving people advise. I can tell you that most cooks share their knowledge. Not always visible to everyone but most of them have contact and help each other. Furthermore, is offering your rom for dumping without any guidance the best way to share?
Everyone that asks for a package, help or guidance in any way is supported in the cooking thread. Some did publish a very nice rom after some time. In my opinion it is a far better contribution then offering an open rom without any support.
The reason I cook my own roms the way I do is for speed purpose. If you have another opinion that is fine with me. But tolerate each other on having a different approach. These kind of statements in threads only give xda a bad vibe. Open your mind, when you want or need something ask for it. It's not supposed to be a tv diner anyway.

I quote you , my friend!

Well this is how it goes for a long time. I think if you don't like it, go somehwere else.
What will you get from debating??

SlakerBoi my first question for you is "have you every cooked a ROM?" i am sure your answer will be "No" because i know how much time n effords need to be put. When i cooked my first rom it took me 4 sleepless night to build a basic beta quality rom. After such a hard work someone reward you by donating. That feeling can't be said in words SlakerBoi. So please stop raising this type of question.
One more thing most of the ROM developers buy new phone with the donations they go so it's not a issue if they release rom for many devices.
Please don't continue this decisions so that this post will go to some corner.
MOD this post hurts lot of ppl feeling so please delete it.

before the flame wars starts
i am going to close this....as these questions will cause fighting.
if you have a problem with someone...contact them....don't post like this
you know this is only going to end in fighting.
thread closed.

As a chef, and a moderator (chef came first), I'll add my thoughts.
I started into cooking when AT&T released their official WM6.1 ROM for the Kaiser. I always liked the design of AT&T ROMs, but not all of the bloat they included... most of which could not be uninstalled. I had the very "simple" goal of removing the bloat in an attempt to speed up the ROM, and increase storage space.
Once I downloaded the ROM, and extracted it using KaiserKitchen, I immediately realized that I was in over my head. I am a very good with PC and Mac computers in the professional/personal world, but I had never looked at the contents of a decompiled WM ROM. There are hundreds of folders, 10,000+ files, and no real explanation of what you're looking at... that is where XDA-Developers came in.
Within 1 week of public release, I was ready with a ROM that could be considered "extreme beta". It worked, and it was fast, but it had quite a few glitches that could not have been discovered without a public release, and a few dozen people testing the ROM. One thing in the background, that is never seen, is the number of hours spent just flashing our phones (I am NOT counting the cooking process) with numerous revisions testing all the bugs/issues reported. My Tilt was flashed no less then 1000 times in it's life, and my Fuze has been through over 500 so far.
I consider myself to be a pretty good ROM chef. But I also know that I am far from the best, and that most of my knowledge came from the very large XDA-Developers community. Some ROM chefs do not share information about the inner workings of their ROM in the ROM thread itself, but a simple email/PM will usually get you the information you seek. Look at it this way: If someone uses a ROM as released, and has no desire to modify it, then why should the thread be clogged with hundreds of questions/answers relating to how this was done, or how that was done.
My ROMs are "protected" using RaphaelKitchen, but it wasn't always this way. It has been shown that merging the RGU/DSM files into one large file speeds up the ROM because you now have several hundred less files sitting on the device. In addition, I also release my kitchen, in it's complete form, when I release a new ROM version. People are free to download the kitchen, extract it to their computer, and fully customize my ROMs. I know this is a popular route, because my Fuze and Touch Pro kitchens have been downloaded over 100 times since v4.7 of my ROM came out last month.
On to donations... I have a donation link in my signature for people who wish to appreciate the amount of work/hours poured into creating custom WM ROMs. Just as my signature says, I never require monetary compensation, but I also accept whatever people give, because it allows me to improve my work. For example, I purchased WinCE CAB Creator with some of my donations, so that I could create CAB files of items removed from the ROM. I also maintain a Rapidshare Premium account so that I never have to delete any file uploaded to XDA. Another form of donation I received was web hosting on a fast server that provided an alternative to Rapidshare.
I've said all of this before, but it's been awhile, and I cannot find the post. In closing, I don't see anything wrong with the items you pointed out. We've had issues in the past with members who used donations as a way to obtain a piece of software (ROM or otherwise), and as soon as it was brought to our attention, it was dealt with.

Incomplete ROMS, are you serious?!

So I was trying to help my little brother get a custom ROM from XDA so he can enjoy his Wing. Well, ends up half of the chefs out there create roms without important features. For example, no MMS. Ok, so maybe you can get away with that since you can download Arcsoft and install it afterwards. However, question remains, why don't the chefs include Arcsoft already in their roms like they used to on XDA with the MDA, etc?!
So fine, no MMS, install it later. How about required functions? For example NO CAMERA SOFTWARE!?!? Are you serious chefs? I mean I know you take out things like ringtones, carrier bloat, etc, but CAMERA?! Now, the MDA, when a chef took out the camera it was because THEY WERE REPLACING IT WITH A BETTER CAMERA SOFTWARE.
What gives XDA?! I am noticing this in other ROM threads for other phones. Even some of the latest phones have this issue too. Rhodium roms missing landscape mode?! It's a Rhodium, it has both landscape and portrait!
Either way, so fine, you want to make these roms available to the public. No problem. Ever think about creating a TEST ROMS section INSIDE OF XDA ROMS?!
So another example. One section for "INCOMPLETE BETA SUPER TEST ROMS" and another for "The phone should still be able to use all hardware on it with this ROM" section. How about that for a little more clarity?!
I can't beleive what's happened to beloved XDA. Shame. Big shame.

Weeeeelllllll......not to sound super preachy....but you do realize that you are getting all of this FOR FREE right? Most of the time the reason that commericial programs aren't cooked into ROMs is because they are just that, commercial. AFAIK we could get in MUCH more trouble if we included a bunch of commercial stuff in them. I know that the Wizard has TONs of ROMs with built in stuff that is commercial, I used to be a cook over there, and in my opinion the reason for that is because there is so much crap in that forum that the mods and such arent going to look at every ROM for illegal crap, whereas in this much smaller forum here for the Herald we have fewer members and fewer ROMs but I think like 2 or 3 mods, so they have less to look at and more time to do it.
Long post short, you get this stuff for free...at the most what cooks ask for is a donation, ROMs as they are no matter what are technically illegal piecs of software, and at any time if Microsoft REALLY wanted to they could have XDA shut down without another word..so basically, if you don't like it-cook your own ROM with what you want already in it or stop complaining!
/end rant

Every people cooking ROMs tries to cook the way the most useful for his/her device, and test some apps or abilities from the ROM.
And as you've read, they share their ROMs "for free" so that you can enter here, search, and download the ROM you want, flash it and play with it.
Nobody sells anything. There's no agreement to sign. There's no compromise except the wish to make things well - to every chef's taste.
You don't like this chef, this cook, this dish, then you are free to change restaurant. People is here to discover, develop, and share ideas. If you like stock ROMs with all the features, then get one of them.

The best you can do is to write a factually comment into the thread, where you have downloaded the ROM. This is the right way, to get an answer. But don´t insult the cookers. Here are kitchens presented, so that you can make it better for your own, if you want.

chillax
MMS is a carrier specific issue. Roms atleast for this fone aren't carrier specific... Yea this stuff is free and you'll have to use a little elbow grease to get it workin in the way u want. If you want a specific app cooked into your rom be it commercial or not cook it in yourself, just be careful of rammifications if you share your rom with the public. Kitchens are not rocket science, just grab on and slam into it head first

ashasaur said:
Weeeeelllllll......not to sound super preachy....but you do realize that you are getting all of this FOR FREE right? Most of the time the reason that commericial programs aren't cooked into ROMs is because they are just that, commercial. AFAIK we could get in MUCH more trouble if we included a bunch of commercial stuff in them. I know that the Wizard has TONs of ROMs with built in stuff that is commercial, I used to be a cook over there, and in my opinion the reason for that is because there is so much crap in that forum that the mods and such arent going to look at every ROM for illegal crap, whereas in this much smaller forum here for the Herald we have fewer members and fewer ROMs but I think like 2 or 3 mods, so they have less to look at and more time to do it.
Long post short, you get this stuff for free...at the most what cooks ask for is a donation, ROMs as they are no matter what are technically illegal piecs of software, and at any time if Microsoft REALLY wanted to they could have XDA shut down without another word..so basically, if you don't like it-cook your own ROM with what you want already in it or stop complaining!
/end rant
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I understand, trust me. I don't think you are preaching. In the days when I first got my Wizard (MDA) the roms did not require much addition of software. You could choose a rom and the chef would do more work in letting you know about the rom. ie: Missing this, missing that, has this, has that...etc. I came across two ROMs in particular that did not mention such things to me and was shocked about it.
After further reading the posts in the ROM Chef's thread, I discovered that the chef did not care that the needed app was not working and had asked all users to just download an older build of the ROM instead of trying to get a functional ROM shared.
Now I understand that apparently XDA came under great legal threat from several companies about their roms/software being released here for free(whether or not it left the phones without critical functions). For this reason, to remain alive, XDA had to comply by these rules and just let the chefs make the ROM itself and anyone willing to put up with not having a phone or camera or keyboard or touchscreen working on their phone would test the ROMs out and figure out how to get critical functions back by themselves because it would destroy XDA if the ROMs had this software included.
Back then it was considered hard work simply downloading/burning a ROM that a Chef made, but these days you even have to install the basic function apps yourself if you want to participate. Hopefully it doesn't get much worse than that. I really want my Touch Pro 2 to have an XDA ROM running on it in the near future with WM 6.5 and enjoy butter smooth, reliable operation.

afn691 said:
You don't like this chef, this cook, this dish, then you are free to change restaurant. People is here to discover, develop, and share ideas. If you like stock ROMs with all the features, then get one of them.
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nothing more i can add ...

Need a standardized way to compare ROMs

With hundreds (guessing) ROMs now posted for the TP2 is there a way to get a gauge on which ones are better at what things. WITHOUT LOOKING AT EVERY ROM POST. I want to upgrade from 6.1 but every post ROM I have looked at seems to have some caveat about this or that not working (GPS, MMS, etc.). Its very difficult to contrast and compare the different ROMs. Maybe we can develop a form that devs can complete when uploading a ROM to give a clear, concise, and standardized view of the features and caveats on their ROMs. This would make it much easier to decide which one to use.
Thanks to everyone that has ever posted a meaning message to this forum.
EDIT: I am not complaining about the caveats. This is about the information that we need to know about the ROMs available. I want to make an informed decision on which caveats are acceptable to me. Sorry if it reads poorly.

Yeah most cooked roms dont have near to polish of a stock rom. However, most of these guys build these roms for basically free. The "scene" is drivin by its member so if you want something done that noone else is doing you should work to make it happen yourself. Its not like your a customer and get to complain...
Good idea for sure tho.

Great
Thats a great idea I hope that it happens.

I know what you mean, and I agree with you to a certain extent. When I first came here, I was totally confused and bewildered by the number of different ROMs. There's certainly no way you can read the whole thread for each ROM, there's way too much.
I think you'll find the ROMs are a lot more stable than you think. If you want to stick with stability, I'd go with Sense (TouchFlo3D) 2.1, not 2.5. But that still gives you plenty of choice. Have a look at some screenshots, see if there's one that looks nice to you and seems to contain the features you need, try flashing it and see how you go. If you don't like it, you can easily change and flash a different one.
Or another approach is to look at the threads which seem the most "popular" and try one of those, banking on there being a lot of people to help you, in the same situation, and that "so many people" can't be wrong ?

Jaykno said:
Yeah most cooked roms dont have near to polish of a stock rom. However, most of these guys build these roms for basically free. The "scene" is drivin by its member so if you want something done that noone else is doing you should work to make it happen yourself. Its not like your a customer and get to complain...
Good idea for sure tho.
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Whoo Dude... back off. Im not complaining about anyones work. Nor am I knocking ANY of the work done here. This is simply a feeler to see if the cooks would be up to it standardizing the info about their work and if its a good idea or not. Notice I said "Maybe WE can develop...", that includes me.

Good Idea
I think u right there. The cooks are done a fantastic jobs their to provide us with such amount of their free time and fabulous ROMS. However, each cook choose a different orientation for their ROM, i mean some want to have max free mem, others go for esthetics, etc etc.
It would be nice if we can have a sort of specs (hmmm well i hope u get the idea here) that we can check to know which type of ROM it is, which is working or not and so on and so on.

If I created a list (word or excel) of all features and functions of the TP2 then had the cooks complete them for the ROMs and send them to me. I could then compile them all into a database that would display ROMs side by side with a feature list checkbox table. (No sense making the cooks do alot of initial data entry... that stuff sucks. ) We could then make direct comparisons of each one. All they would need to do is keep me updated with the latest ROM info and I can keep the DB updated. Once the feature list is stabilized I could turn on the feature where they could be able to update the info themselves.
I don't mind doing the development of this if the cooks are up for this idea. I can't cook a ROM but I can code a db/website.