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I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
FYI, check also XDA official' RULES: Please read this before posting
You need another voting option: post a link to the appropriate page/site (Wiki, MrVanx's Guide etc) and advise them to read as much as possible and understand what they are doing before they create a very expensive brick, without wasting time insulting and looking like an arrogant ****.
Short polite and to the point.
Unless you have a hangover of course........
I second that option
That didn't even work in this case.
That one's not even smart enough to click on the hyperlink to get the information he was "spoon fed".
newbie2 said:
That didn't even work in this case.
That one's not even smart enough to click on the hyperlink to get the information he was "spoon fed".
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tragic....i cant beleive people like this do anything else on their phone other than pressing numbers and hitting send/end.
chrisjasper said:
You need another voting option: post a link to the appropriate page/site (Wiki, MrVanx's Guide etc) and advise them to read as much as possible and understand what they are doing before they create a very expensive brick, without wasting time insulting and looking like an arrogant ****.
Short polite and to the point.
Unless you have a hangover of course........
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I think the 3rd option is the one that comes nearest in this situation.
Here´s a proposal
Prerna said:
I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
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Click to collapse
I´m a member of another forum (not related to phones nor PPCs !) Whenever a question comes on an issue of those already answered a ton of times the moderator "sends the member posting the question TO READ", this means that this member has no right to post anything during a week. I don´t know if this forum has such capability and I don´t know neither if the mods would be willing to take this "extra" job.
Sounds quite drastic, although maybe a base to think of other possibilities how to handle the issue.
Surely, XDA deserves better than what I've seen in the past few weeks in the Hermes' forum.
Answer the question or STFU
But above all, don't reply to the post with an RTFM Noob post only. Maybe answer the question then do an RTFM in the same post.
RTFM posts add no value whatsoever, aside from making the poster feel smart.
-Humbert
Prerna said:
I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
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Click to collapse
Well, I am new to this forum. But, I have to agree we need aggressive measure to deal with people don't do the work of search.
Personally, I don't have many posts because I can find answers to almost all of my questions just by searching and spend time reading. So, not all newbies are bad, but you need to deal with the bad ones with a hard hand.
You senior members are getting about as bad on this issue as the newbies asking the same questions over and over. If you would have used the search button, you would have found that there have been 3950 threads about what to do with newbies and 423,654 flame posts to a newbie. Okay, so that was a joke but, for the love of all things holy, can we move on?
Sincerely,
Newbie who uses search button, has read the wiki (in part so far) and who doesn't ask questions that could in any way be misconstrued as not having done the aforementioned.
Scratch that. I am now a junior member. Woohoo for me!
help them,
some people are not pda svay and new to it all,they may have had a cell prior and dont work in a tech/IT role so may not be to sharp on a lot of the tech side
Everyone starts somewere,if you can take the time to reply with an insult or try google ,then you can find the time to point em in the right direction
Imagine if you took your car to be looked at and got the same response,ok the info is free and you can use search,but a little help goes a long way
its the net ,use it to gain info and spread it,not sit being smug or post insults
if we all use the net to its full potential we can achive so many things
i am sure we all have been newbies before. how would you have like to be treated/replied?
i suggest if the noob question is polite, then answer it politely and give some advise on how to use the search function and the wiki.
if the noob question is somehow impolite, aggressive, etc., perhaps a little apprehension/reminder is required.
jaceuk said:
help them,
some people are not pda svay and new to it all,they may have had a cell prior and dont work in a tech/IT role so may not be to sharp on a lot of the tech side
Everyone starts somewere,if you can take the time to reply with an insult or try google ,then you can find the time to point em in the right direction
Imagine if you took your car to be looked at and got the same response,ok the info is free and you can use search,but a little help goes a long way
its the net ,use it to gain info and spread it,not sit being smug or post insults
if we all use the net to its full potential we can achive so many things
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You've taken your car to be looked at and NOT got the same response?
Wow, you have nicer car mechanics in your area.....
There are various levels of noob, which need to be distinguished between.
There are those who have tried to search and read but not fund the answer, although it may be there. (maybe wrong search terms)
There are those who have not looked hard enough and are just being lazy. (perhaps they were put off by the huge number of posts etc)
There are those who demand answers without looking.
There are those who demand answers to questions which demonstrate that they really have not even tried to get any kind of an idea of what they are doing.
Favourite recent examples are :
CAN I LOAD WINDOWS MOBILE 6.0 ON SONYERICSSON M600i (UIQ 3)
i have downloaded black v3 but want to check if it will install to my Dell Axim aswell as my spv????
Where can I get Windows Mobile 6?
Tis funny, another post on what to do with us...
Hi, as a noob myself, new to the hermes, nothing else... I lurked here for a while before actually registering... I was really disheartened by the posts of RTFM and the like... I tried searching for my answers with the limited capabilities of this forum (don't get me wrong, I like the forum, but the search sux), but rarely could find what I was looking for... It wasn't until someone actually included a link to another noob with the various ways to successfully search the forum, that I decided to register...
If we could use the google search link as a sticky, it may help... I believe that the google advanced search link is included in the FAQs, if not, it should be... but I have simply added it to my sig... My suggestion would be for those of us who tire from 'ignorant' posts to do likewise...
(turn back on crowd and leave soapbox for next speaker)
Google search sticky
debonairone said:
If we could use the google search link as a sticky, it may help... I believe that the google advanced search link is included in the FAQs, if not, it should be...
(turn back on crowd and leave soapbox for next speaker)
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It´s been there for a while
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=304582
By the way, check it, it´s been updated recently with good info for the WM6 adicts....
Read this!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=304959
Whatever. You know the seniors' stance is questionable when the entire purpose of setting up another private forum is to "get away from n00bs", and when you hit 100 posts you aren't even allowed to ask a simple, obscure question because it appeared in a topic like more than 6 months ago, and you're supposed to be "experienced" enough to know.
Everyone here has valid points, but it still doesn't solve the problem... It will not be an easy one to solve, as long as the search function is not blatantly put in front of noobs... As I said before, I lurked for a while before even registering because of the flaming posts for "stupid" questions... Need everyone be reminded that English is not the first language for everyone on this board...? That makes it a little harder for someone to properly search for the correct items and locate them... Then they are tasked with understanding what is written... And since it has become okay to use acronyms while typing, translators cannot keep up... Hell, it took me a couple of hours to figure out what RTFM meant...
Anyway, making things a bit easier for those with less knowledge cannot possibly be a wrong turn...
This is a request to all uses and moderators.
I would like to see three things.
1) Sticky's/Announcements in Kaiser General to the FAQ/GWENI/ETC. Currently these are listed in ROM development and not intuitive for a new user to find.
2) A guide for NOOBZ - while the above are invaluable resources, they don't address very basic issues. Things like:
How do I use activesync to install a CAB?
How do I do a basic registry edit
Where can I look for good software for x, y, and z
What does ROM, CID, SIM, XML mean...in general a Glossary
other basic tasks/information
I don't have the bandwidth to create such a guide right now, but if someone would like to volunteer, particularly a user who has gone through a noob to more experienced level using this site and is aware of the issues and pitfalls. It would be much appreciated...
3) A forum section for Noobz... As we have seen many posts as of late with titles like "I am a noob" , "Help me...","What software is good?",etc.
I think having this forum there would attract these posts better while appease the larger community from having to entertain these even in the general forum. Which, as some have stated should be a forum for questions not releated to the other 3, and not as a place for spoonfeeding.
If you think any of these 3 suggestions is a good idea, please post your support and or ideas.
thanks
Agree, sounds like a good idea.
My other suggestion would be to migrate to mediawiki as it just works nicer and the wiki may be developed more and be easier for noobies to get through!
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
thesire said:
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
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TITLE
Im a noob and need help
MESSAGE
You mentioned "spoon fed" how do you do this? can you show me. Is it a .cab and if so how do i install.
Thank you and please don't flame me
thesire said:
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
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I agree.
However many of the "senior" or more educated members of the forum seem to get quite upset at these "noob" and/or redundant posts.
There are three ways to handle a post like this:
1) Ignore it
2) Flame it
3) Respond in a helpful manner
Ignoring it works, and it is something ALL OF US NEED TO DO MORE. Remember, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. (The Internet is encroaching more and more into the realm of real life...it has been shown more than once that bullying someone on line can have legal consequences in real life.). However, ignoring posts won't make them go away either, as there will be more since nothing is being done to educate the user or point future users in the right direction.
Flaming it serves no one any good. Stupid users won't learn, and if flaming makes you feel better, just remember you are taking up just as much (or more) of the forum resources and wasting just as much time flaming a worthless or uneducated post. Remember, fighting on the Internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded (no offense meant to the special olympics, or mentally challenged individuals...I have just always found this statement funny...and true).
Responding in a helpful manner should be the way to go if you choose not to ignore it. But, a helpful manner does not mean spoon feeding. Remember, "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime." Proactive responses such as sticky's and announcments do the most to this effect.
As a "forum" in the classical sense, this should be a place for thought and discussion. However, it is also a gathering place for the masses. The leaders of the society should strive to educate and elucidate. However this can't be done on an individual level for every single post.
No man is an island either and to be part of the greater continent that is XDA-DEVELOPERS they need to have a modicum of intellect insofar that they know how to navigate an internet site.
I would feel better knowing that we have made ALL the resources available to the masses. This way we don't need to feel bad about ignoring any posts that we deem are ignorant.
I'm sure you have all heard the old saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....
Rather than attempt to dispel "NOOB" queries by means such as WIKIs,FAQs and the like which clearly have proven futile, it would make more sense to come up with a method of allowing such queries in a manner that doesn't encroach on the sense of ownership of the forum that seems to prevail amongst the senior members.
bengalih said:
This is a request to all uses and moderators.
I would like to see three things.
1) Sticky's/Announcements in Kaiser General to the FAQ/GWENI/ETC. Currently these are listed in ROM development and not intuitive for a new user to find.
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As stated to you before but I'm stating so that more people can see it, I completely agree with this.
2) A guide for NOOBZ - while the above are invaluable resources, they don't address very basic issues. Things like:
How do I use activesync to install a CAB?
How do I do a basic registry edit
Where can I look for good software for x, y, and z
What does ROM, CID, SIM, XML mean...in general a Glossary
other basic tasks/information
I don't have the bandwidth to create such a guide right now, but if someone would like to volunteer, particularly a user who has gone through a noob to more experienced level using this site and is aware of the issues and pitfalls. It would be much appreciated...
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Also as you know, I have gone from newb to somewhat experienced almost solely through this site and I'll work on the bold part above this week and weekend. Here is my 1st attempt at it though.
boomermax said:
I'm sure you have all heard the old saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....
Rather than attempt to dispel "NOOB" queries by means such as WIKIs,FAQs and the like which clearly have proven futile, it would make more sense to come up with a method of allowing such queries in a manner that doesn't encroach on the sense of ownership of the forum that seems to prevail amongst the senior members.
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I'm not sure what the point of stating this is?
We have a new idea...the noob forum. This is in addition to refining the current methods to possibly make them more effective.
What would your method be?
I also don't feel that the senior's assume a sense of ownership. Except to the effect that without them there would be no resources and thus this site wouldn't exist and thus be visited by noobz. I think the sense is more of outrage or incredulity the same as any member of a community would have when it accumulates members who have no concept of how to function in that society.
Don't you think that some people in your community might get a little offput if they had some native tribe move in and walk around naked? Performed drum circles at 2am every night? Dump on the lawns?
It is about community upkeep, and you don't have to be a senior to do it. In fact, some seniors may be counter productive. It is about being knowledgeable of your surroundings and willing to learn the rules to properly assimilate.
i love ur writing style bengalih ur posts are always so perfectly composed
I agree as well
I am not new to the forum because I have been lurking in the shadows for a while and have not posted anything as of yet but I have to totally agree with this request as I think that it is a great idea.I know that it would help me out a lot and feel that it would help others out as well.
I also just wanted to post this private message I got from a user:
(empahsis added by me)
Hello I'm [name removed] and I will be the first to say that I am new to all of this but I was reading a post and u had suggested that a "noobie Forum" might be a good idea and I would have to agree.
I have just gotten an AT&T Tilt and I have spent hours on top of hours reading in the forums here and I have to say that a lot of it is very complicated for someone like me who doesn't understand ROMs and Flashing and things like that.
I have read a lot of the post and to be honest I have had several questions that I could not find anwsers too after searching and have been terrified to post my question because of the negitivity and hostility that I have read.
The problem that I am having is that I am not understanding a lot of what is being written and am not sure what I should put on my phone or how to do it correctly.I am not stupid,ignorant,nor have I not taken the time to read and search things on this forum.
I am college educated and fairly intelligent but I am not tech savy or computer savy for that matter and I don't understand a lot of what is being said.I will admit that my phone is smarter than I am but I would like to learn how to use it more effecentally and get the most out of my phone and what it can do for me.
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I hope you senior/educated members take to heart comments like this and realize that although this isn't rocket science there are still many educated individuals that don't know where to start. Even after a user RTFM (which this user apparently did some), there is obviously a gap to get them to the next level.
We have to accept that this has become a place for the PPC masses and we can either ignore the pleas for help or do something to assist in the long term.
On the flip-side to you noobs... don't get over your head. You don't buy a junker or a tuner if you're not a mechanic, and you don't try to paint the Mona Lisa if you're just a dilletante. If you are in a position where you can't understand things even after hours of research you may want to get your feet wet in something else (like a basic computer class), or you can always buy from Apple . This stuff isn't for everyone, and unfortunately nothing we do will make it so.
bengalih said:
I'm not sure what the point of stating this is?
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First off I began writing the previously posted comment prior to your well spoken post above.
The ownership I spoke of was reference to the few senior members that feel a need to reply to every single post by redundantly pointing out the redundancy of others.
My suggestion was to avoid the attempt of "pre-answering" all possible questions. It can't be done.
Nor is it reasonable to expect all knowledge to exist on the same level. Take the analogy of communities that you spoke of (which I agreed with up until you equated elemental levels of knowledge with pooping on one's lawn).
Within all successful communities you have an acknowledged and agreed upon division of areas of education.
In other words 1st graders don't sit in the same classroom as upperclassmates...
...nor do upperclassmates refuse to graduate.
I think the idea of a noob forum sounds good, and I believe it would help separate many of the redundant posts in the general forum.......but at the same time, if those posts are separated so as not to bother the more experienced people from having to sort through them, then who is going to help them? Would we have noobs answering other noobs? I'm afraid we would end up with the blind leading the blind.
By that same token, if the experienced users decided to venture into the noob forum to help them....then separating the posts for the sake of not having to wade through them seems somewhat counter-productive.
Don't take any of this as a negative. I think putting together a collection of noob resources is a good idea, and creating a noob forum may be as well......I'm just trying to weigh the benefits with the potential problems it could cause.
I am probley the top flamer (IMO) and sometimes I flame and sometimes not. Mostly I flame people who you can honestly see from the question that they didn't look for anything. If I can find the answer in 5 minutes and you claim to have spent days, then I know you didn't search. As to the person that has read and still doesn't understand, please post. Most of the time those people come out and explain things in their question so that you can tell they actually have an understanding.
Asking a specific question about a step or a method in an educated manor is far better then say, I Are noob, what software should I install, oh and can someone literally hold my hand while I flash this rom on my phone.
If you're willing to educate yourself then it shows.
I know that I was nervous and a little scared before I flashed for the first time. I was on edge the whole time, but I knew I read over the instructions over and over.. I have read them again and again and I just don't see where the mistakes happen.
I will provide support if you need it, but you don't need it if the answer is right there, 3 posts down or if it's a well known thing.
Oh I wonder if you could keep that forum from registering in the search function.
boomermax said:
First off I began writing the previously posted comment prior to your well spoken post above.
The ownership I spoke of was reference to the few senior members that feel a need to reply to every single post by redundantly pointing out the redundancy of others.
My suggestion was to avoid the attempt of "pre-answering" all possible questions. It can't be done.
Nor is it reasonable to expect all knowledge to exist on the same level. Take the analogy of communities that you spoke of (which I agreed with up until you equated elemental levels of knowledge with pooping on one's lawn).
Within all successful communities you have an acknowledged and agreed upon division of areas of education.
In other words 1st graders don't sit in the same classroom as upperclassmates...
...nor do upperclassmates refuse to graduate.
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Agreed. Although I stand by my "pooping" comment . The fact is that all of those levels of knowledge may be perfectly acceptable in some communities, but totally unacceptable in others (ok ok, granted not too many poop on their lawns...but not that far off.).
I think you are right that we can't answer all questions, but we can try. I think if we can teach the fundamentals, and then a lower classman learns those he should be able to synthesize most of the remaining elements.
For what they can't extract from their learnings, they can ask a question on. After all, most of the info passed around here isn't new, it is synthesized and rehashed in different forms applicable to a particular issue.
I don't think we can get rid of the basic posts, the "I am a noob posts", the didn't search for this first post. But I do think putting them in another question would help.
I know it has been suggested before, and I don't know if it is possible (I have been on other forums that can do this....) But it would be great if we could limit posting to the noob forum for the first 2 weeks of someone's membership.
Valtamr said:
I think the idea of a noob forum sounds good, and I believe it would help separate many of the redundant posts in the general forum.......but at the same time, if those posts are separated so as not to bother the more experienced people from having to sort through them, then who is going to help them? ....
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I address this here
ChumleyEX said:
I am probley the top flamer (IMO) and sometimes I flame and sometimes not. Mostly I flame people who you can honestly see from the question that they didn't look for anything. ....
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I think you are far from the worst Chumley...but as a genuine question:
Why do you feel the need to flame? Why not just ignore the post?
I am not stating this rhetorically to be preachy. I am asking to figure out how we can eliminate it.
Personally I sometimes want to flame back a flamer just for contributing something just as worthless as the original post, but I refrain.
I mean, if someone came into the ROM Development forum and posted "I am a NOOB, how can I please to update my phone!!!" I would expect and even welcome the flames there. If we have to terrify the users to know their place then that's ok...the second part of that though is we NEED TO GIVE THEM A PLACE TO PUT THEM IN! That's why I think a noob forum might help.
bengalih said:
But it would be great if we could limit posting to the noob forum for the first 2 weeks of someone's membership.
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But isn't that really the point that's being refused to be acknowledged?
This is the noob forum. Senior members who have already acquired the "upper" levels of knowledge are begrudgingly noticing that not every day is a day of discovery like before and are being faced with the choice of becoming teachers or finding other sources of higher knowledge.
boomermax said:
But isn't that really the point that's being refused to be acknowledged?
This is the noob forum. Senior members who have already acquired the "upper" levels of knowledge are begrudgingly noticing that not every day is a day of discovery like before and are being faced with the choice of becoming teachers or finding other sources of higher knowledge.
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I'm not sure of your statement of "This is the noob forum"
Are you suggesting that either the "General" forum or XDA-developers in general is now for noobz?
I would whole-heartedly disagree with the latter. As for the former, General is not meant for noobz, it is meant for anything that doesn't fit in the other 3 forums (e.g, not about ROM development, not about an accessory, not about a specific piece of software).
I don't want to keep stressing the name of the site is "XDA-Developers." Just because it may be bombarded by power users or noobz, shouldn't diminish the function of the site. If the attitude starts to become "This is where noobz should be" then I think you are going to see some real problems. The least of which is that if you piss off the seniors, they WILL go somewhere else and this site will become meaningless.
well I suppose it comes from many things. As a child I was bullied and now I find myself in a situation of assumed power. Or, I feel that because spent the time to educate myself, through all the grulling threads, I have the right to do it. And like a drill Sergent , I will not be nice about teaching you to fish.
Man I gotta work on my rep.
After some reading I came to find that you cannot dl paid apps if you root your phone. I would like to have the apps that I paid for. Is there anything like the iphone hacked phones where you can access the market?
With almost all of the recent ROMs you can download/access paid apps. That problem was fixed a loooooooonng time ago.
Wrong section, and if you would have done more reading you would have found that it is no longer a problem.
After some reading I came to find that you cannot dl paid apps if you root your phone. I would like to have the apps that I paid for. Is there anything like the iphone hacked phones where you can access the market?
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I find that basic reading and comprehension skills to be your main problem because it seems that your lack of these two key skills/superhuman abilities leads to you not being able to post this thread in the correct forum and not performing any type of search for an answer to your own question.
If we are able to solve these two of your presumed plethora of "issues" i believe that you'll live a better life etc. etc. etc...
stefan.buddle said:
I find that basic reading and comprehension skills to be your main problem because it seems that your lack of these two key skills/superhuman abilities leads to you not being able to post this thread in the correct forum and not performing any type of search for an answer to your own question.
If we are able to solve these two of your presumed plethora of "issues" i believe that you'll live a better life etc. etc. etc...
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I have a life, a very busy life, I'm not gonna sit here all day reading about my cell phone.
Elmi said:
I have a life, a very busy life, I'm not gonna sit here all day reading about my cell phone.
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Well, I hate to break it to you buddy, but this whole customization thing with the phones isnt a one stop shop. If you dont read, you're going to brick your phone. So since you have this all important life, and by implication, are too good to read up, perhaps you oughtta unroot until you have time to do things right, like maybe reading the sticky that says "dont post threads like this one in the freaking dev section".
Elmi said:
I have a life, a very busy life, I'm not gonna sit here all day reading about my cell phone.
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I'm sorry, I don't help stuck up idiots who can't even attempt to help themselves.
eabod....
If it really takes you all day of reading just to understand your cell phone, then you do have a problem.
As said the new roms dont suffer the same fate as the older ones. You should be just fine.
XDA is the wrong place to ask questions, even in the correct forum. People overall here seem to have a attitude that they know it all, and were born that way..its almost like they just jump on the bashing bandwagon simply because its the "happening" thing to do. Mind you only a very few are able to build and release roms, customizations and so on the rest are moochers only they like to pretend they are something special.
If you search, generally you will find what your looking for eventually, sometimes not at all and sometimes you find it but its so buried by other crap you dont know you found it. I guess your best bet is to make damn sure you posted your question in the correct forum, then hope that someone deems you important enough to answer..or just search the countless pages and deprive the bashers of the reason most are here and dont ask...my how the post counts would fall...you see a question asked and its jump on em fellas, he asked a question..1 smart remarks not enough, they line up to leave replies that most have thought of days earlier...just waiting to use it instead of simply linking to the answer, giving an idea where it may be found or something...nah, just bash em, that makes this place look all the more better, a much more friendly environment lol, whatever.
I enjoy xda, but honestly some of you make for a truly elementary experience, while a few others do a lot more...you come here for the roms, mods, hacks, for most of us not the ones we did, we can do or the ones we had a hand in creating..and you cant take a minute or two to answer a few questions? Think of the work the actual devs have done, the time involved, the testing over and over...wanna help some? Answer peoples simple questions without being an ass! If nothing else link em to where they should go!
I disagree, everytime these questions pop up, they are usually answered in the first reply, if not the second one.
But for the most part, I think being an ass is just a way to keep these wrong threads to the minimal.
I've never seen someone being an ass when a member ask a question (doesn't matter related to the topic of not) at the end of a ROMs' thread.
gn02256676 said:
I disagree, everytime these questions pop up, they are usually answered in the first reply, if not the second one.
But for the most part, I think being an ass is just a way to keep these wrong threads to the minimal.
I've never seen someone being an ass when a member ask a question (doesn't matter related to the topic of not) at the end of a ROMs' thread.
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I understand that, somewhat. But after his question was answered, do you see all the other people that posted, for no other reason then to try and belittle the guy that asked the question? Thats what I am referring to, those comments do nothing to help anyone, provide no use what so ever out side of making xda look like a buncha jerks.
Look at all the people that say its not helping by having questions in a release post, as it adds more to the dev having to sift over the comments, yet the " flashing now!" is just as off topic in reality as its not helping the dev know anything about any issues one may have..if people have to say "flashing now" then say I flashed, and heres what I found..see what I am saying?
Honestly people are going to be jerks on any forums, so it just comes with the territory. Usually you can avoid this by trying to learn some basic forum rules. Most are stickyed at the top of the forums. IMO use the search and spend like 15 to 20 mins to figure out what is going on in the forums. And then if your still stuck post in the Q&A forums.
The thing about this post that really roasts my goat is the OP lack of motivation to try and find his own answers. We are not his tech support and everybody here does this for free...Its disrespectful, insulting and lazy...
I have tons of respect for people that try to figure out problems for themselves first (search, google, read).
Please see this video [http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting] for proper forum etiquette. (I know, its old but its still damn funny and so true...)
@nickwinn does "eabod" really stand for what i think it stands for? if it does just mention something about the boondocks and i will know for sure
Elmi said:
I have a life, a very busy life, I'm not gonna sit here all day reading about my cell phone.
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Are we supposed to cater to your busy life when you decide to root your phone and not take the time to research more into it?
ThR1LL said:
Are we supposed to cater to your busy life when you decide to root your phone and not take the time to research more into it?
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but of course! what else are we here for? to help with reasonably asked questions where the poster doesn't get a massive attitude problem? of course not, we must be here to answer everyone of joe blow's question and disregard any attitude he/she may get!!!! please search next time before posting such mess ThR1LL
i think my head just burst from so much sarcasm
Hey at least the op took the time to read a little bit maybe it was outdated but a least he did try, so cut the guy some slack, he did better than some other people who read nothing and come right to here and expect some hand holding
People like the OP are why this forum is getting worse, and to ducter if you really think we are all assholes why do you come here? If you ask a question in the wrong forum we will most likely give you ****, but also give you a little help. If you use the correct forum we will help you, unless your question is ssomething you could of found out in less then 5 minutes by searching.
This forum has 100's of thousands of members and if half of them are asking questions that have been answered hundreds of times it clogs the forum and we lose sight of other valuable posts or people with real questions about problems that are new and have not been solved.
Furthermore when someone says some **** like they don't have time to read about there cell phone then why are you here in the first place? Don't root your phone or better yet goto the tmobile store and ask them to help you fix your rooted G1. If you can't take the time to read like everyone else does/should then go buy a lg env or something and maybe it will be simple enough for you to figure out.
I mean no disrespect, but the majority of people on here are very helpful. But I wish some people on these forums would stop being so cryptic with their "I know something you don't know" posts & assuming everybody else is as clever as them. That's why forums get bloated with crap & make it hard work to find what you're actually looking for.
Just get to the point. No more half-answers please!
Sent from my GT-P1000T using XDA App
Just get to the point. No more half-answers please!
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But, you just did that sort of.
I mean no disrespect, but the majority of people on here are very helpful. But I wish some people on these forums would stop being so cryptic with their "I know something you don't know" posts & assuming everybody else is as clever as them. That's why forums get bloated with crap & make it hard work to find what you're actually looking for.
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Cryptic answers actually serve a purpose. Rather than spoon feeding the same information over and over to different people, it encourages them to go do their own research. Usually the 'cryptic' answer contains the keywords necessary for somebody to do a search for themselves.
I find it more effective to piece together information that i've found myself than to have it explained in a way that doesn't always make sense to me. It's the difference between being in Primary school and University. In the latter you're expected to do your own work.
DirkGently1 said:
Cryptic answers actually serve a purpose. Rather than spoon feeding the same information over and over to different people, it encourages them to go do their own research. Usually the 'cryptic' answer contains the keywords necessary for somebody to do a search for themselves.
I find it more effective to piece together information that i've found myself than to have it explained in a way that doesn't always make sense to me. It's the difference between being in Primary school and University. In the latter you're expected to do your own work.
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In a sense, I do agree with you on that. Like I said, most of the people are very helpful with their answers. Perhaps cryptic was the wrong word. Terse would have been a better choice of word. The problem for me being a noob to Android is that there is so much misinformation around that to find what you are actually looking for, you have to sift through so much crap first. This could be avoidable if people didn't just give the stock answer "search for it".
Sorry, I'm just a pedantic fool. I don't want to be spoon fed, but I do want a relevant quality answer. I'm no genius, but when I answer a post, I try to be as helpful & unambiguous as possible. I just expect the same.
Sent from my GT-P1000T using XDA App
Getting to da point takes steps
Sent from my Arc using XDA premium App
On one hand I agree with the op that sometimes people can give very vague and condescending answers which can be frustrating for a new user or someone with an issue they need to address asap.
Its never a good thing to dismiss someone as a stupid n00b and not try to help them out.
On the other hand, I think it is beneficial to give someone a push in the right direction and not just spoonfeed them an answer.
When I first came to XDA I knew NOTHING, it was only through being encouraged to read and research my problems that I got to the point where I was able to help others with theirs.
There is also the argument that as this is a development site and not just a one stop shop for answers to questions which Google can answer for you 95% of the time, if you are not able/willing to search and learn then your in the wrong place.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face......
I dont mind helping step by step but always read all instructions and you should be good and if you have issues along the way then ask dont ask me to find stuff for you search and type out steps that are already on this forum.
Ill do that every once in awhile but must be contacted and them understand it takes time to write out a new manual
Indeed. Well, to what half-answers do you refer? Citations, please!
conantroutman said:
On one hand I agree with the op that sometimes people can give very vague and condescending answers which can be frustrating for a new user or someone with an issue they need to address asap.
Its never a good thing to dismiss someone as a stupid n00b and not try to help them out.
On the other hand, I think it is beneficial to give someone a push in the right direction and not just spoonfeed them an answer.
When I first came to XDA I knew NOTHING, it was only through being encouraged to read and research my problems that I got to the point where I was able to help others with theirs.
There is also the argument that as this is a development site and not just a one stop shop for answers to questions which Google can answer for you 95% of the time, if you are not able/willing to search and learn then your in the wrong place.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face......
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But Google invariably points to XDA forums
SciFiSurfer said:
Indeed. Well, to what half-answers do you refer? Citations, please!
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'Citation needed'
See HERE for all the answers!
Is this thread serious? It's a forum...this stuff happens on forums. Live with it.
You can't possibly think that this thread will change anything?
Swyped via my cyanogenized and gingerbreaded EVO
andychud said:
I mean no disrespect, but the majority of people on here are very helpful. But I wish some people on these forums would stop being so cryptic with their "I know something you don't know" posts & assuming everybody else is as clever as them. That's why forums get bloated with crap & make it hard work to find what you're actually looking for.
Just get to the point. No more half-answers please!
Sent from my GT-P1000T using XDA App
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What I did when I joined this forum (and before) was too not only use the search feature but search other sites, Google it, also I checked other forums and blogs. Articles from Lifehacker, the unlockr, other tech blogs...and you know what, it DID take what seemed like forever to get the SDK set up, find the right drivers ect. But you know what DIDN'T HAPPEN, I didn't get one terse or rude answer, I didn't get flamed and I learned alot more in the process. I can root phones and flash ROMs with complete confidence now. I'm not saying my way is the right way but when I did/do ask questions I get a much better response because I've got some knowledge under my belt.
Sent from my NS running NSCollab cuz I lost my tin cans and string....
I agree somewhat to the OP, as I was a n00b once too. It was frustrating figuring out issues on my own and reading threads for hours. But I lurked for months when I first started modding seems and setting up QPST and stuff when I first started "hacking" my old motorolas. I eventually got a grasp on things and have been trying to help out where I can.
I can honestly see how old timers and those experienced in all different forms of modding these devices can get terse and not want to just spoon feed the info to the new users. The new users need to learn how to search, follow instructions and get well read on the fundamentals before assaulting the developers with questions answered earlier in threads or in the wiki.
It's a two way street, but I can assure you that it is worth the journey. You can't just take offense when someone when someone doesn't answer directly or refers you to the search function is short answered. And devs/experienced users aren't trying to offend you. Every person here just needs to get along!
Just my $.02
noobs r a factor in this forum
I want to root my Dell Streak 7, 16 GB, T-Mobile model but I've been hesitant to do so because I've heard of many people getting their devices bricked after attempting to.
What are the chances of me bricking my device in the process of rooting and is it worth taking the risk or not?
Thanks.
5uprem3 said:
I want to root my Dell Streak 7, 16 GB, T-Mobile model but I've been hesitant to do so because I've heard of many people getting their devices bricked after attempting to.
What are the chances of me bricking my device in the process of rooting and is it worth taking the risk or not?
Thanks.
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If you are on 2.2 then rooting it is simple and easy with very little trouble. Just use an app call Gingerbreak, it is fully reversible.
otnos said:
If you are on 2.2 then rooting it is simple and easy with very little trouble. Just use an app call Gingerbreak, it is fully reversible.
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If you're gonna root it would be much easier to just flash the Clockwork Mod and flash DJ Steve's custom ROM for Froyo that comes tweaked and all
otnos said:
If you are on 2.2 then rooting it is simple and easy with very little trouble. Just use an app call Gingerbreak, it is fully reversible.
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Yes, I'm on 2.2. And thanks for the info, I'll check it out.
cdzo72 said:
If you're gonna root it would be much easier to just flash the Clockwork Mod and flash DJ Steve's custom ROM for Froyo that comes tweaked and all
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Hm.. I'm very new to all this Android stuff so I have no idea what all of that means. If you could give me more input on how to do that and where I could find all of that, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks for answering though guys
Allow me to be very frank and honest... the fact that you ask for the information to be spoon fed to you allows us all to assume you haven't done near enough reading, the LAST thing you should be doing is rooting. The act of looking for the information will acclimate you to the things you should know. There are several threads on modifying the Streak 7 and what to do should you run into a wall. Until you read AND UNDERSTAND ALL OF THOSE THREADS you should flash ANYTHING to your device, please heed the warning, if not you'll be one of the hundreds getting flamed because you refused to educate yourself before tinkering with your device.
Yes, I at one time was a noob, and each time you buy a different device you are somewhat of a noob. I just purchased a Galaxy S2 and a Note to replace my Streak, I spent 2 weeks reading articles, skimming through ROM threads and devouring hundreds of pages before I flashed anything so I wouldn't have any trouble...
I for one did lots of reading but could not find all the answers, so I posted in the General Section. Well, over 500 views and not one reply. Nobody has done a Nandroid backup/restore???
wptski said:
I for one did lots of reading but could not find all the answers, so I posted in the General Section. Well, over 500 views abjuring not one reply. Nobody has done a Nandroid backup/restore???
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All the answers are in just a couple of threads
cdzo72 said:
All the answers are in just a couple of threads
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A needle in a big haystack! I can understand not wanting to explain with every move but all my question required a Y/N answer. Does that fit your repeated "spoon feed" answer?
As one posted, we are expected to read hundreds of posts to find one post where our question is answered. Is that just because that's the everyone is treated, so your expected to pass it along?
To answer your question would be a big fat YES! YOU ARE expected to read through those hundreds of posts that noobs such as yourself create because the answers to all your questions are in just a couple of threads posted by the more experienced. I read through those hundreds of threads to know what I know so what exempts the rest of you from the same adherence to the forum rules?
SGS II I9100 from TapaTalk
cdzo72 said:
To answer your question would be a big fat YES! YOU ARE expected to read through those hundreds of posts that noobs such as yourself create because the answers to all your questions are in just a couple of threads posted by the more experienced. I read through those hundreds of threads to know what I know so what exempts the rest of you from the same adherence to the forum rules?
SGS II I9100 from TapaTalk
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Well Mr. more experienced, so far not one of the more experienced hasn't answered with a simple Y/N. Must be too difficult to press a few keys, I guess or it's the "I had to learn the hard, so they'll have to also" mentality? You are one bitter person!
wptski said:
Well Mr. more experienced, so far not one of the more experienced hasn't answered with a simple Y/N. Must be too difficult to press a few keys, I guess or it's the "I had to learn the hard, so they'll have to also" mentality? You are one bitter person!
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CDZO72 is completely correct in that you SHOULD read hundreds of posts, not nessecerilly hundreds of pages.
How much is 100 posts? by default 1 page is 10 posts, so it's 10 pages of a thread. Usually you only need the OP and mabye the last 5 posts in a thread.
Then add in you should read half a dozen or so stickies. 50 posts of the RIGHT posts or so and you already can get an idea of what's good/bad, right/wrong. You can easily read several hundred in a sitting as skimming counts as reading for unimportant posts.
Who's fault is it when someone bricks their device because they didnt read everything? I'm pretty much the go-to guy for generating documentation and I rarely ever get any real suggestions to change/improve stuff.
All my stuff is medium-difficulty instructions as I refuse to hand-hold people though as most of my stuff is stuff that WILL BRICK you if done incorrectly. Many other guides tend to be easily broken, due to changes in stuff as hand holding is highly specific, generalized ones arnt easily broken, especially the ones I make.
The phrasing and tone that cdzo I dont agree with though, but until a certian threshold it's none of my concern. It's strongly worded but not rude yet. And he's completely right about the points, if you mess with a device and dont read everything, what is the next post you make? "HALP MY THNG DUN WORK"
I am assuming OP is new to android as a whole and now he's been pointed in the right direction to learn more.
OP hasnt implied he's refusing to read stuff, he merely implies that he has no idea what he should be reading. he SHOULD have read the stickies as they do cover most topics, he could have possibly read it and not understood it.
I always assume that the vast majority of users simply read the stuff and never post as they dont need to/have no issues with it. Often time the posters are the ones that dont understand/refuse to read for various reasons (and some of them could be legit reasons such as language barriers)
tl;dr: the vast majority of posts are issues that can be solved by thourghly reading the stickies, if they arnt they should tell me and we'll figure something out
Thanks to TheManii and explanation of my behavior
Thank you TheManii for backing me up to an extent, and I will be the first to apologize for my somewhat harsh answers at times but the points I want to make are the following:
1) If you don't have the time to do what TheManii just suggested then NO, no one should mod their device without feeling they can reverse what has been done
2) I have several devices.. my Streak 5, the Streak 7, Transformer Prime, SGS2 I9100 and an iPad 2... and lemme tell ya, comparitively speaking, these Streak forums are sleepy compared to the stupidity you see in some of those... especially the SGS2 forum, there are at least 100 NEW threads daily and 99% of them are JUNK, and 99% of the posts in existing threads are JUNK, so you can imagine how frustrating it is for someone such as myself when I acquire a new device and then have to weed through ALL THAT to find my answers, because I almost refuse to start a new thread because I doubt that anything I come across some developer has not already addressed, I just have to find it
3) so let me apologize to whoever may be offended by my sarcasm and rants, but if just a few people are motivated to alter their forum behavior by it, well I am more than willing to bear the burden of being lashed out at by the noobies that resent my responses
4) once again thank you TheManii for your support (I gave you a thanks for your post , once again you have proven you are TheManii
I dont believe you're doing it to be malicious, sometimes you dont really realize it until someone points it out.
Forums are always baised towards having users that are having trouble, as it's just as unproductive to make a post that says you got and understood everything. (unless it's some sort of thank you thread)
Actively saying you dont want to read is grounds for getting tarred and feathered by the mods (as in heavily chastized but nothing serious unless it's repeat offenses), I am not a mod though and fortunately dell devices dont get millions of posts an hour.
Just to repeat though, I always assume good faith in the OP, and he hasnt stated anything towards that yet.
hello friends, I saw the post and read because I thought it would help me to be root, I thought to find some link, I believe, and if they let me say that with a single link would suffice, or just see and pass by, I also have revealed with my htc and what would happen if they become damaged, and finally because of who will? for me is a language barrier, and read only the interesting threads but do not know much, a greeting
Enviado desde mi Dell Streak 7 usando Tapatalk
I've read 100's of pages of posts after reading some of "cdzo72's"" rude rants to noobies. I believe sombody else mentioned why does "cdzo72" even reply to a thread but only to rant?
TheManii, I really like the one where you told somebody, "Well, I'll toss you a bone". Really??
Then there's a response from "giveen" where I questioned his video(s). His answer was a link to Google! I know you guys are developers and you guys make this Dell S7 section for the most part. I shouldn't be agitating you guys but neither of you are going to win a Mr. Congeniality Awards.
Do you guys have children? If they ask you a question, do you give them the same kind of response that "some" noobies get here? Gosh, I hope not!
I'm a moderator in another forum and you would have heard from me long time ago because this rudeness just isn't allowed, no matter who you are or even what you bring to the plate.
In reference to my replyless thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1516530, I don't really see how a simple yes/no would have killed you?
I am not a dev, but I CAN speak for some the old devs that left the S5 area, they stopped replying/deving because they kept getting inundated with stupid questions.
When every time you get bombarded with questions that were clearly answered somewhere else it tells you it's simply easier to not release something publicly. I personally know one dev that stopped making releases because he kept getting asked stupid questions.
I'm hesitatnt to release anything if I'm not willing to fully support it, hence why the great majority of my roms are never released/only released to a small group.
Anyone who's on xda is by definition not a child (even this isnt the case, I would be surprised if there wernt devs on xda under 15, but I expect that many of them learned entirely on their own at that age), there's a point where you should be able to learn on your own without assistance.
The State Of Our Site – Not An Official Statement But A Perspective this sums it up to a degree. I could have sworn there was an official announcement that xda was for devs and users were simply along for the ride, not the other way around. I cant find it, I may be mistaken though as that link isnt a binding statement.
Just as much I've seen forums that outright instant-ban you for a couple days for even the simplest dumb question. With the size of it I dont really blame them. Keep in mind some like somethingawful requires PAYING to register and the users know beforehand that being probated is really easy for making bad/dumb posts. Yet they still register and pay to do so.