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Did any Americans on this forum vote for the bush?
Personally I hope not......
wonder how many recounts they do this time around ?
and maybe a trail ?
read about there being very many activists trying to keep people from voting this time
flyers saying the election had been moved to the day after
and
people comming round to peoples doors saying that the election place they were to go to had been shutdown and they could just write their vote in and give it to them
pretty crazy well suppose some people care more about who win then the democratic process
I'm sure there are some.
The fact that the rest of the world was hoping Kerry would win, has little influence to the us-citizens. Like we should care what America thinks of who we should vote for.
I just hope that this victory, doesn't give Bush a carte-blanche on his foreign policy. The fact that he no longer has to worry about getting re-elected won't help his diplomatic powers. He also doesn't have to care anymore about men coming home in body bags. These men believing they fought for freedom, democracy and the glory of the US, but in fact only went to defend the intrest of some multinationals.
Jupiter said:
Did any Americans on this forum vote for the bush?
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Statistically, one out of two.
Not sure your question is really inocent though :roll:
I think you like hot & touchy thread
The fact that the rest of the world was hoping Kerry would win, has little influence to the us-citizens. Like we should care what America thinks of who we should vote for.
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yeah it could even have the opposite effect a lot of people would get stubbern and do the opposite then what some snotnosed rest of the world person would advice
I just hope that this victory, doesn't give Bush a carte-blanche on his foreign policy. The fact that he no longer has to worry about getting re-elected won't help his diplomatic powers. He also doesn't have to care anymore about men coming home in body bags. These men believing they fought for freedom, democracy and the glory of the US, but in fact only went to defend the intrest of some multinationals.
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but how that he dont have to worry about reelection he may begin to worry about how he looks in the history books and be less confrontational agenst the rest of the world when it comes to deplomatics
here a big news papir had a pole
32000 people voted
kerry got 79%
nater got 8%
nobody got 7%
bush got 6%
so one might say that if that pole had been reality bush lost to nobody
Guys,
Please give me 5 specific reason why Kerry should have been elected, concrete issues/reasons, not just buzz words.
Thanks,
paulmc
imho then kerry was less religous in his motivs when it came to politics thinking stemcell research and giving gay people the rights of marriage in some form or another
imho then kerry was less likely to offend and alienate allies and other countries in the world
imho then kerry would not have a prison camp on cuba where the internaitiol laws conserning prisoners of war were not enforced
maybe the kerry administation would have had less % of people being investergated for insider deals and corruption
and finaly then imho then it keeps a better balance if the house of rep
and the senetors and president is not in the hands of a single party
it's more moderated
just a few things i could come up with on the top of my head
of cause there are surely people who differ in openion
Please give me 5 specific reason why Kerry should have been elected, concrete issues/reasons, not just buzz words
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Who said I wanted Kerry to be elected. Its a case of Predator vs Alien. Whoever wins, we lose!
Not sure your question is really inocent though
I think you like hot & touchy thread
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Who, me?
Jupiter said:
Not sure your question is really inocent though
I think you like hot & touchy thread
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Who, me?
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Yes
paulmc said:
Guys,
Please give me 5 specific reason why Kerry should have been elected, concrete issues/reasons, not just buzz words.
Thanks,
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I'll give you my personal opinion, conceptual more than practical as I do not live in the US, nor be concerned with elements such as "he voted that" or "he said this".
I think Bush is a dangerous religious totalitarist. I have no reason to vote for Kerry, but plenty to wish that Bush be moved aside from active international politics.
To me this man should not be re-elected as he should be forced into in LaHaye and charged with the 5 following elements against him:
1. Invading a sovereign country in complete violation of all international law, without UN approval, under very suspicious reasons, obviously telling lies about AMD and supposed connection with Ben Ladden
2. When forced to admit the is no connection between Sadam Hussein, Ben Ladden and AMD, thus no reason to invade this country, not even admitting he was wrong or worst, he got cheated or even worse of all, he deliberately lied to his people, to the nations concerned and to the rest of the world.
3. Establishing concentration camp for Afghanistan prisoners in complete violation of international law, and principles, and international treaty without having those prisoners charged of anything, and allowing no international control of what is happening in this camp
4. Sending his army to perpetuated atrocity and humiliation to irakee prisoners who have not even been charged of anything. (Keep in mind that all the US commanding officers in Irak saw before leaving, the French film "The Battle of Alger" showing what France did during the battle of Algeria, were we did exactly what you are doing presently in Iraq because we were facing the same problem). Let's call it what it is Atrocity. And we know what we are talking about for we did it too!
5. Legitimating the exclusive right for the US to strike any nations they think be a potential threat to their interest and freedom, and denying any one else the right to do so. This is to me the worst of all as establishing this principle is like opening the box of Pandora. It is open to excess, abuse and one-sided interpretation.
I've put a lot of strong word in my post. Take a moment and think about it
- Why does most of the earth citizen desired that this guy be not elected?
- Why did France, which is one of the FEW developed nations that NEVER started a war against your country and which stood many times with your people to fight all along your history, decided to stand-up and shout so loud.
- Why did my small country (France), which has relative small influence, little to offer and many to loose, be backed up by so many countries in its protest?
The US cannot be right against the rest of the world; else this is not democracy any more.
This is to me the 5 reasons why Kerry should be elected.
What would be 5 reasons to elect Bush?
- Why did France, which is one of the FEW developed nations that NEVER started a war against your country
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so that mean that there are pretty few developed nations since when i think i can mention
briten / canada
mexico
germany
japan
vietnam
koera
who were at war with us
[quote="Rudegarso that mean that there are pretty few developed nations since when i think i can mention
briten / canada
mexico
germany
japan
vietnam
koera
who were at war with us
[/quote]
????
Sorry I did not get this ? What is you point ?
If you talk about nations who were officially at war with the US, you can add UK, Italy, Spain, Philippine, Laos. Buy my post was more about Western European nations
i were just wondering which countries had been to war with US since they were formed and you helped me by adding some that i dident remember
IMHO, for me it's kind of obvious why Bush will win... (not that I like to see him win), but remember that ever since Bush started his presidential period, the US where attacked in their own territory, so basically all Bush has done is to govern based on terror, and in the other hand all Kerry has done is negate the terror threat and threaten to reduce the weapons and national security budgets. Ok, it might be true that the terror threat is not that great, but tell that to the American people and I bet they rather not take chances.
So, I think that for the American people, which basically has lived in terror for more than three years, it's imperative that Bush takes care of business, you know, fight for "freedom" in his own selfish pathetic way :evil:
Like the old sayng goes "better safe than sorry"... :roll:
[thought]I wonder why Al Gore didn't run this time? [/thought]
i believe it's rare that a loosing party put the same guy up more then once
popular vote showed that people dident like him too much last time
that he were to unanimated for their taste
<RANT>
HOW COULD HE SERIOUSLY SAY THE SENTENCE WAS TOO HARSH? HE GOT THE MINIMUM FOR THAT SENTENCE. AND DUDE CONSPIRED TO OUT A CIA AGENT. PUT THE LADY AND HER FAMILY IN HARMS WAY AND THEN LIED TO THE GRAND JURY, JUDGE, PROSECUTORS, AND FBI ABOUT IT.
IF THIS WAS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY HE WOULD BE PUT IN FRONT OF A FIRING SQUAD FOR TREASON.
</END RANT>
Dang Yankee fans... they get all upset when their team sucks.
Madcap180 said:
Dang Yankee fans... they get all upset when their team sucks.
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I wear my yankee emblem proudly.
well if libby was really just the fallguy for rovoe or even cheney
maybe they had too for him to keep his trap shut
Impeach Dubya
Oh don't even get me started talking about our Village Idiot. I keep telling myself that in 2008 we will all wake up from a very bad dream!! After his daddy's joke of a Presidency, I KNEW not to vote for Dubya...so don't blame me...I laugh daily at all the Bush-isms, and cry because of how ridiculous the US must look right now to other countries. To all those folks NOT from the US...trust me when I say, the US doesn't want this jackass (or at least the citizens who aren't multi-gazillionaires)...and now THIS????? They went after Bill for booty calls, why in Hell's name aren't we doing something about our slimebag Prez= IMPEACHING his @ss???
UGGG...one more year...one more year...one more year (it seems to be my new mantra).
saw some covering of him going to albania
it was mentioned that he was more popular there then
in us at the moment
but then recall blair being more popular in us then in uk so maybe thats normal enough
National Jester...
Hmm...was he talking about the speech-bungling-ever-so-clumsy Bush or immaculate-speaking (even-though-lying-through-his-teeth) Blair ?
I would presume the ultimate crown of village idiot goes to Bush...and many do agree.
Now to the issue at hand - Scooter Libby did as he was told - period !
I am sure we are all smart enough to see that, and why should he go to jail for the ever scheming Cheney? Not that I am a fan of www.counterpunch.org (they seem a bunch of disgruntled ex-CIA, ex-FBI ex-XYZ), but they do give you a balanced view to the intrigues of American polics. Those guys were right on the money, even before the Bush intervention was public.
Just do as Mike said...come back home wayward 'poodle'....err more like 'Rottweiler'
lol
AD10 said:
Hmm...was he talking about the speech-bungling-ever-so-clumsy Bush or immaculate-speaking (even-though-lying-through-his-teeth) Blair ?
I would presume the ultimate crown of village idiot goes to Bush...and many do agree.
Now to the issue at hand - Scooter Libby did as he was told - period !
I am sure we are all smart enough to see that, and why should he go to jail for the ever scheming Cheney? Not that I am a fan of www.counterpunch.org (they seem a bunch of disgruntled ex-CIA, ex-FBI ex-XYZ), but they do give you a balanced view to the intrigues of American polics. Those guys were right on the money, even before the Bush intervention was public.
Just do as Mike said...come back home wayward 'poodle'....err more like 'Rottweiler'
lol
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he did what he was told involving the leak of valerie plame.
now the reason he got convicted because he got caught in lies. the whole point of this thing was for him to tell the truth. if he did, some very important people would have had to go down. like, carl rove. carl rove would have been in the hot seat and would have had to name names. and he would have named the big ****. and it would be all down hill from there.
he lied to protect his cabinet. so he should be in jail. he broke a federal law.
people who break laws, should be in jail.
btw: dont act like its just bush alone who is an idiot. if a scholar follows an idiot, then how much of a scholar can he really be? (speaking of course about tony blair)
well as i understand it near the end of the presidency they get to hand out a get out of jail free card
recall something like it with clinton but forget it the public outcry caused him to avoid doing it anyway
maybe libby was promised a pardon later on to keep his mouth shut
personaly i dont think anybody really think that it's right or fair
many people in the history have been punished even if they were just
acting under orders
free will should cause one to take ones own stand no matter what anybody tells you to....
I think we all forget at times that this is no longer a govt for the people by the people but a govt for the rich and corporations. by the rich and corporations. That's all right though cuz soon us middle of the line folks will be ran down till there is nothing left for them to take. And then who will wipe there as#@.
Back home in Boston a FBI agent was sentenced to like 20 years or something like that for helping out a mob guy named Whitey Bulger.. He got more of a sentence then Libby did.. lol
Rudegar said:
well as i understand it near the end of the presidency they get to hand out a get out of jail free card
recall something like it with clinton but forget it the public outcry caused him to avoid doing it anyway
maybe libby was promised a pardon later on to keep his mouth shut
personaly i dont think anybody really think that it's right or fair
many people in the history have been punished even if they were just
acting under orders
free will should cause one to take ones own stand no matter what anybody tells you to....
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thats exactly my point here. he had a chance to be a man, or a pawn of the establishment. and he conformed to protect the very people that put him in harms way to begin with.
this transcends party lines. lets forget for a minute that clinton, bush sr, regan, and nixon have all pardoned people. is that the excuse now, because your predecessor has pardoned people, you have to? why can't each man stand on his own record? bush has made it clear that he will not hand out pardons and sentence commutes to the guilty. why should he turn back on his word now?
this makes me feel like our justice system is a big joke. even martha stewart got a year for insider trading. lil kim got a year and a day for the same exact thing libby did... lie to the feds. my parents taught me that if i did the wrong thing i will go to jail. what example is this setting for the rest of the country and the youngsters growing up watching this?
<avoids inserting NY joke here>
who did Clinton pardon anyway? .. and .. Since Bush was re-elected, does that mean he got 2 free pardons? lol.. since one of his terms ended already..
Madcap180 said:
<avoids inserting NY joke here>
who did Clinton pardon anyway? .. and .. Since Bush was re-elected, does that mean he got 2 free pardons? lol.. since one of his terms ended already..
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010120/aponline135239_000.htm
nobody significant. the most controversial one was hillary's brother. i mean i think they should do away with the pardon thing all together. executive privilege is out of hand.
presidents can pardon how many people they want. they hand out get out of jail free cards like its candy.
Impeach Dubya
The truth is that Dubya has been a liar and cheat since day ONE. He can care less about the average American, and rather goes out of his way to line the pockets of the rich buddies who got him into office ($3.31/gallon gas??? Puleez!)...our unemployment levels are insane, are property sales are bottomed out, our economy is far from stable...there are more people living in the U.S at poverty level than there were during the great depression...seriously WTF??? Nobody wants this so-called "War on Terror" to continue, the death toll is beginning to look like Vietnam, and even the soldiers who traditionally are treated well, have been losing benefits and pay...so why serve? In 7 years Dubya has taken us from a healthy and stable economy and growth to sh*t, we are losing allies, and the rest of the world sees the U.S as a bully and/or joke. And sadly it is because of our dipsh*t figurehead and his lying cabinet, when in truth most Americans do not want any association with him...well except for Florida and Ohio (thank the lord he cannot run for a 3rd term)...and for the record, the RIAA/MPAA have prosecuted, won, and served harder punishments on pirates than Libby faced, or was released from. Even Paris Hilton had to have her few short weeks in jail...yet Libby goes free???? To say that this will be a hardship for his family still, despite his not going to jail...he willingly lied and saved the collective asses of the Presidency and Cabinet...if this isn't a reason to call for impeachment I don't know what is!!! Let's compare...a blowjob or swindling and cheating America, lying about the war, commuting sentence on what should be treason...or a blowjob...WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG HERE??? I say let the Prez get booty calls...kept the economy stable and healthy, kept us out of a war, created jobs...a happy Prez is an ok Prez (have yet to see a good Prez)...JFK got tons of booty calls and is remembered as a fantastic Prez...think about it.
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." Dubya, August 2004, Washington, DC
end rant.
told you not to get me started talking about the Idiot.
akashastrega said:
The truth is that Dubya has been a liar and cheat since day ONE. He can care less about the average American, and rather goes out of his way to line the pockets of the rich buddies who got him into office ($3.31/gallon gas??? Puleez!)...our unemployment levels are insane, are property sales are bottomed out, our economy is far from stable...there are more people living in the U.S at poverty level than there were during the great depression...seriously WTF??? Nobody wants this so-called "War on Terror" to continue, the death toll is beginning to look like Vietnam, and even the soldiers who traditionally are treated well, have been losing benefits and pay...so why serve? In 7 years Dubya has taken us from a healthy and stable economy and growth to sh*t, we are losing allies, and the rest of the world sees the U.S as a bully and/or joke. And sadly it is because of our dipsh*t figurehead and his lying cabinet, when in truth most Americans do not want any association with him...well except for Florida and Ohio (thank the lord he cannot run for a 3rd term)...and for the record, the RIAA/MPAA have prosecuted, won, and served harder punishments on pirates than Libby faced, or was released from. Even Paris Hilton had to have her few short weeks in jail...yet Libby goes free???? To say that this will be a hardship for his family still, despite his not going to jail...he willingly lied and saved the collective asses of the Presidency and Cabinet...if this isn't a reason to call for impeachment I don't know what is!!! Let's compare...a blowjob or swindling and cheating America, lying about the war, commuting sentence on what should be treason...or a blowjob...WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG HERE??? I say let the Prez get booty calls...kept the economy stable and healthy, kept us out of a war, created jobs...a happy Prez is an ok Prez (have yet to see a good Prez)...JFK got tons of booty calls and is remembered as a fantastic Prez...think about it.
end rant.
told you not to get me started talking about the Idiot.
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*claps*
that was perfect. the only thing ill add is that... there is nothing wrong with a "war on terror". but we cannot, or should not terrorize people to stop terror. all its doing is helping recruit more terrorists. i have family in the armed forces. so i feel sorrow for the troops who have died because of this war. but on a human level i also feel for the 30,000+ civilians (women and children, and innocent men) that died in iraq. how can we force a democracy on a country that ever asked for it in the first place. the last country that tried force something on us, we kicked their ass (england, lol). why can't the same logic go into our foreign policy?
the sentence communication that the president granted single handedly shot down any moral high ground this presidency had left. they are total users and abusers of the system. and the dems are no better for letting it happen.
republicans are blind followers, and dems are spineless bureaucrats with all talk.
i think im going to change my party affiliation to indepenant
wonder if senat could stop those pardons if they wanted to?
was ROFL when bush used the senat's hollyday to get Bolton the un ambassador elected by himself because the senat dident want to vote for him
thats pretty wacked democracy
I come from a military family. My mom, dad and step dad served, my grandpa served, 2 uncles served, my husband served...I have a strong dose of patriotism running through my veins. That said, it is appalling what the troops and their families have had to endure under the Dubya Admin. An article 36 was filed against a soldier in Hawaii for refusing to go to Iraq and (as he stated it) be forced to murder innocents in the name of oil. If found guilty, his military career will end, he will do time, and will forever have problems getting a good-paying job, as the article 36 and dishonorable discharge will forever follow him. He will lose any pension and VA benefits. All for standing up for his beliefs. Libby?? He gets first a slap on the wrist, follow by a presidential release to serve time. WTF????? WTF????? WTF?????
I will always support the soldiers. They and their families make so many sacrifices for crappy pay, and possibly death....but I do not and will not support Dubya and his lies. His "war on terror", or rather fight to control oil producing countries. Saddam is dead. Where is Osama, and why hasn't he been brought in? It is no longer a terrorist hunt, it is an issue of Dubya insuring his oil buddies interests, rather than the interests of U.S.
Libby was (I'm sure) aware of this, and probably knew of items proving this...he "took one for the team" so to speak, and for doing so, Bush covered his @ss. Just one more thing I wish to use as a nail in the coffin of Dubya's lying, cheating presidency.
I am kind of anti military .. well, not anti military, I respect the guys who were DRAFTED into the army more than the ones who CHOSE to go and then WHINE about it later.... I dunno.. I can't stand the way George Bush always says 'This war is about protecting the way of life in America' ?? I dont get it, what does Iraq have to do with how WE live? .. we spend 100's of billions of dollars on rebuilding a country, but somewhere in the ghetto's of LA and New York some homeless family can't even get a bite to eat..
FIX HOME FIRST.. hypoctite.
Madcap180 said:
I am kind of anti military .. well, not anti military, I respect the guys who were DRAFTED into the army more than the ones who CHOSE to go and then WHINE about it later.... I dunno.. I can't stand the way George Bush always says 'This war is about protecting the way of life in America' ?? I dont get it, what does Iraq have to do with how WE live? .. we spend 100's of billions of dollars on rebuilding a country, but somewhere in the ghetto's of LA and New York some homeless family can't even get a bite to eat..
FIX HOME FIRST.. hypoctite.
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point taken...
however, murphy says "where a man stands on an issue depends on where he sits".
bush, nor his cabinet can relate to a homeless family in la or new york. to a lot of people, they have the mind set of "why can't they just get a job". they dont understand the social ills in the innercity or how to change them. most of the guys who make the laws were born with a silver spoon, most of the guys who look up to them are dirt poor.
p.s. thats whats really wrong with the republican party. their base is so blind that they dont even realize that their representatives dont even represent them. i always find it amazing when i have a discussion with a middle class white person that they are republican and dont even know why. their party does absolutely nothing for them.
dont blame the troops though. they take advantage of what options are available to them. the armed forces recruit in the inner cities and the poor rural areas because they know those people hardly other options. it is only after they get out of the military that they understand what was really going on all along. while in the military i think they feel they have an obligation to not question their leaders. i guess they see that as insubordination. however, leaders are human too. and they are also american.
i'll end by saying this. i can't stand when another american questions my patriotism because i am against this war. i was against this war from the start. when it was UNCOOL to speak out against the war. and i still am against the war. i support the troops but i do not support what they are doing in iraq.
i thank akashastrega's family for their contribution.
Now im not starting a fight of the race. But im mexican so i guess this law affects me. Now the United States of America is full of every race imaginable. So in my opinion this law is harsh and unneccesary. WHats your opinion on the law?
what exactly does the law state"?
djteotancolis said:
what exactly does the law state"?
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I havent read the law entirely but from my knowladge is thaT if your in Arizona and your skin is colored or you look from a different race the police can pull you over and ask for papers. If you dont have any the send you back to your homeland. Id better start packing!
This only applies to ILLEAGLE immigrants, who suck our system dry without putting anything into the economy.
PurpleLlamaLover said:
This only applies to ILLEAGLE immigrants, who suck our system dry without putting anything into the economy.
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Such opinion makes me kind of afraid of you Llama I don't know how old are you I don't realy want to know but in history books you might've noticed that this country was founded mostly by "Illegal" inmigrants...unless you are a Native Indian...your family did the same thing too...come to this country illegaly to make a better life so people like you could enjoy of such freedoms as expresing yourself and gettinga better education. I really hope you educate yourself Llama before just "repeating" what people say instead of forming your personal opinion on this subject.
Plus, you just don't really know who's behind every screen. Some of your "friends" might be inmigrants
As per forum rules:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=261
2. Be polite and respect your fellow xda-dev user.
There is no need for cursing, flaming, racism or personal attacks. There are a lot of different nationalities on this forum all with different cultures, this means that no matter what you're like, you'll have to adjust to people that are most definitely not like you. For this reason we'd like to ask you to refrain from discussions about religion or politics, we do not wish to limit your right to free speech, but we have noticed these topics tend to get heated and might be best discussed in a different environment. It will gain you a lot of respect if you help to keep the peace. It's disrespectful and therefore not permitted to create Alias Member names in an attempt to deceive others.
I don't see a thread about the terrible events that took place in Norway,such an absolute tragedy my thoughts are with all those effected.
38 views and no responses
watching this in the US is scary because we have always had crazy extremists in our own country, but never quite like that as far as I can recall, I just hope we haven't spent too much looking at extremists outside of our country and not trying to prevent a tragedy like that from happening here.
If someone better than I could figure out a way XDA could help and maybe do some grassroots type fund-raising for this that might be cool...
Good that i live in Bergen and not Oslo ^^. But damn that's scary as hell... :O. 92 People dead in the island and counting, theire were mostly kids (12-15) years on that island too...
edit................
Anyone can carry a bomb. Like most violent extremists, the person who committed this horror used his belief-system as an excuse. He just likes killing.
Hey guys can you please edit your posts to not have that line? ^^ i edited mine.
Please edit those posts.
Whilst we have absolutely no problem with anyone wishing to express their condolences to the people of Norway at this difficult time, I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that we do not allow political discussion here on XDA.
Your entitled to your opinions but this is simply not the place to air them.
Thanks.
conantroutman said:
Please edit those posts.
Whilst we have absolutely no problem with anyone wishing to express their condolences to the people of Norway at this difficult time, I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that we do not allow political discussion here on XDA.
Your entitled to your opinions but this is simply not the place to air them.
Thanks.
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done.
I merley started the thread to offer my condolences to the people of Norway no political stuff from me, i think the person in question realises they should not have said what they did so we'll leave it at that.
My condolences are with the families involved the tragedy.
Sent from either my N1, NS, or Sensation 4G
Yes, my condolences as well, i can't imagine what those families that have been affected by all this feels
What i sick person, i hope he rottens in jail!
To bad the maximum prison time in Norway is 21 years =/
so, i'm curious how the users of xda think about the charlie hebdo attack of last week?
i think the UN should compile an army force and send them out to the middle east to prevent the terrorist groups
from traveling further and try to prevent groups from attacking innocent and harmless civillians (anywhere in the world)!
i believe the people of Isis and Al-qaeda should be taken out by force! honestly i don't approve of any violence! however in this
case the diplomatic way didn't had any positive result! therefore for the first time i'm saying yes to open fire! obama and other worldleaders should
finally put action to their words! these terroristgroups are an absolute thread to freedom of speech and expression!
so please give youre opinion and you're thoughts about this awful tragedy
(sorry for my broken english) i'm dutch :silly:
my condolances to the victims and family of the fallen!
je suis charlie
And as such the victims will have died in vain. Charlie Hebdo stood for freedom of speech through humour. They abhorred violence.
Murdering others because you don't agree with their ideas, however controversial they may be, makes you no better than those who murder others because they disagree with their ideas.
Murdering innocent people because you're upset over a cartoon is pure cowardice. It's not brave, it doesn't make you a hero. It makes you a pathetic coward.
But answering violence with more violence isn't the answer. That's how this whole mess started in the first place.
The problem here is religion. For as long as history can remeber, people have been slaughtering innocents in the name of some fictitious god. Christianity is no better, or have people forgotten about the crusades?
Cue more butthurt people now painting a target on my head just for saying that. Freedom of speech kids, it works both ways. You get to preach about your god to those who don't want you to, and we get to ridicule it. If we aren't allowed to ridicule it, you're not allowed to preach to us. It's both sides of the blade.
Religious followers being upset because someone drew their fictitious figurehead is as ridiculous as all of us going on a murderous rampage because someone drew the Android robot with a pink hat. But people are so brainwashed from birth that they can't see the sheer idiocracy of what they're doing.
That is what lies at the heart of this. But nobody wants to see it. All the imams have condemned the attack, but not a single muslim is willing to take a good hard look at their religion and see that it needs to change. In the west we have learned to accept (the hard way) that there are others who believe different, and we have learned to share our lives with them. We accept that someone won't pray at dinner, that someone won't thank a god every evening. Now it's time for muslims to make that growth as well.
What none of them realized is that those controversial catroons weren't meant as an insult.
The west learned through Apartheid that a seperate society doesn't work. We adapted.
The French shared their country, their lives and their culture with the muslims who came to live in France. They took them into their schools, their busses, their shops, their homes. They gave them the same rights and liberties as citizens.
Charlie Hebdo welcomed them into their lives by sharing their humour with them.
And as a reward for their acceptance, they were murdered.
And that is unacceptable. It is also why there is now such a backlash. If you come to live in our counties and want to share in our lives and become. A part of our society, you can't cherrypick the parts you want. It's all or nothing. You want the right to practise your religion in our society, then we retain the right to practise our humour.
I have gained a newfound respect for mayor Aboutaleb. That man should be an example to all muslims.
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ShadowLea said:
But answering violence with more violence isn't the answer. That's how this whole mess started in the first place.
The west learned through Apartheid that a seperate society doesn't work. We adapted.
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A wonderful humanist once said an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Then I look at history the Christian crusades where many were murdered. Centuries later into the 21st century where Muslims, and I'm not meaning all Muslims, have the spotlight in committing many heartless acts against humanity. The cost of human life..................... the torture ,abuse,deprivation or murder of a human being there is never an excuse for that. I'm assuming these individuals have a built up, or have instilled in them, a hatred for the western way of life and use religion as an excuse to commit atrocities.
Apatheid indeed did not work, several of my friends who are Caucasian have worked in South Africa and it was an unsafe place to be for them.
There will be a balance for both, I'm thinking 2 or 3 lifetimes away. Hope is almost always a positive thing.
I have Muslim friends, some I have known most of my life and they are very different to what I have seen in the media.
I think I have written enough I'm emotionally drained.
Round and round we go
Political threads aren't really something that we allow. To much potential for emotions to get out of hand resulting in flaming of members.
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