Anyone else blown away by the fact no one has even looked into how it is actually done and how it might be reversed?
Ppl have def looked into it man... not as easy as fastboot oem lock....
Looked into it perhaps..... Just doesn't seem like we are doing much about it. Personally think it should be one of the highest priorities out there yet I haven't heard anyone say it was impossible... just that it wasn't known how to do it as of yet.
I would venture to say most devs (I not being a dev) are so happy with 'fastboot oem unlock' they are not willing to spend time re-locking it.... HTC has been pretty solid in honoring obviously hardware failures (yes some occasions they haven't as seen in the forums)..... I again would guess they see 'oem unlock' as a gift and attempts to reverse and "relock" it would most likely kill any chance at another phone being as easy as 'fastboot oem unlock'.... We could easily fry parts in our phones unlocking them, why should manufacturers pay for peoples stupidity??
Def not trying to hate on the thought of our lovely N1's being "relockable" just what my guess would be really..... I'm sure if my N1 every freaks (knock on wood) and has a hardware failure i'll be wishing it was relockable......
martin0285 said:
...they see 'oem unlock' as a gift....
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Click to collapse
What he said. It is a gift.
Personally, I think it's one of the lowest priority tasks ever, if not the lowest of them, and I'm surprised that from time to time there comes someone who's willing to spend others' (devs) valuable time doing that, instead of doing much more important things.
Plus, there's that tiny argument, that it CAN'T be reversed. SW only has that much control over HW. If it's implemented as e-fuse - which most likely it is - then it's irreversible, and that's the end of it.
I'm with martin0285 and Jack_R1.
HTC was good enough to allows us complete control over the device using a command they intentionally built into the system for us... that's a pretty huge thing for a device manufacturer to do. It IS a gift, and it's not one that we should take advantage of.
Related
I was sitting here while the rain slams my house like a freight train and debating on looking into relocking the bootloader a bit more in-depth. However, over the past several months, HTC has been AWESOME about sending users with unlocked phones new (or refurrbed) phones due to hardware issues (ie dust under screens and broken power buttons)
So what are your thoughts? Is this something we should start a "think tank" on or shall we just leave it be?
I say ye's. Better safe then sorry.
Well, all I can see is the Security feature needs to be shut off for the bootloader to be re-locked. (According to the message output from using the ADB command).
But how to do that, I have no idea.
Might take some data usage from one of the few that are actually able to lock/unlock it. (Like the Holiday N1's or the ones handed out)
It appears that there is a guy who is interning at Motorola that wants to get ahold of some bigwigs and help voice our frustration. Here is a link if you have any ideas, please share them!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xty65/i_am_interning_at_a_major_fortune_500_company_who/
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
DoubleYouPee said:
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
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Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
jesusishere said:
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
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Click to collapse
Why would they need to have a locked bootloader to have that contract?
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
Here is the reason boot loaders are locked...
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
vbhokiefan said:
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
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Well nowadays all data plans are being metered anyways. If I buy 2GB per month why does Verizon care if its used on my laptop instead of my phone for example. There was a recent FCC lawsuit against Verizon for separate tethering charges because it went against some agreement they had when they bought the 4G spectrum.
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
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Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
spunker88 said:
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
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Click to collapse
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
doogald said:
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
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Click to collapse
+1
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
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I don't really like this argument though, because most of those bricks are CAUSED by the locked bootloaders and other "security" put into place. These phones are just computers with radios inside. I've never bricked my (desktop or laptop) computer, and neither have most people, because computers have been designed such that the process that brings the computer up (the BIOS) is simple, reliable, and will load anything you tell it to, negating the need to mess with it.
The OG Droid was borderline software unbrickable, because you could leave the stock bootloader in place, and the stock bootloader was able to get you back home (SBF) by itself. If all phones were built like this today, and manufacturer's had a utility to restore the phone back to stock available on their website, the people returning devices due to softbricking would probably go way down, because a softbrick would be no big deal.
Greets!
I lept before I looked and bought a G4 to replace my iPhone 6 and after some research, LG has a stick up their arse and is claiming they will never support unlocking the bootloader on the H811:
"Unfortunately, we have no plan to support bootloader unlock in previously launched models including H811 (T-Mobile) and H815 USA version."
http://goo.gl/ZpnLW5
**EDIT** I authored the post after a string of very unsatisfactory events with T-Mobile regarding the purchase. See my reddit post here. Please consider this before you make a return/exchange decision.
I WAS going to get a Nexus 6 to skip the noise (as a long time Nexus 4 user previously) but.. but.. the G4 seems so much sexier in a way.
I'm not the biggest fan of iOS myself however, I've learned to live with it after working at Applecare for some years.. At least there is a 8.4 jailbreak.
Thankfully, I have a perfect excuse to return the G4 without a restocking fee (their cash register locked up and they couldn't provide a receipt NOR could phone support OR EVEN retail support), I'll simply state that without a receipt - I could not participate in the G4 promotion for free batteries, SD card, etc. (Watch next they won't be able to process a return at all or something, my luck).
Regardless of reason, It'll be a huge regret to hang on to the G4 if I have to put up with T-Mo's Bloatware long term - rootability was the only reason I switched back from the dark side. No one can see the future - but dear XDA fellows, is there any hope for a workaround without LG's grace to unlock the bootloader or should I simply return it and keep using my perfectly working iPhone for now?
rockerrock said:
Greets!
I lept before I looked and bought a G4 to replace my iPhone 6 and after some research, LG has a stick up their arse and is claiming they will never support unlocking the bootloader on the H811:
"Unfortunately, we have no plan to support bootloader unlock in previously launched models including H811 (T-Mobile) and H815 USA version."
http://goo.gl/ZpnLW5
I WAS going to get a Nexus 6 to skip the noise (as a long time Nexus 4 user previously) but.. but.. the G4 seems so much sexier in a way.
I'm not the biggest fan of iOS myself however, I've learned to live with it after working at Applecare for some years.. At least there is a 8.4 jailbreak.
Thankfully, I have a perfect excuse to return the G4 without a restocking fee (their cash register locked up and they couldn't provide a receipt NOR could phone support OR EVEN retail support), I'll simply state that without a receipt - I could not participate in the G4 promotion for free batteries, SD card, etc. (Watch next they won't be able to process a return at all or something, my luck).
Regardless of reason, It'll be a huge regret to hang on to the G4 if I have to put up with T-Mo's Bloatware long term - rootability was the only reason I switched back from the dark side. No one can see the future - but dear XDA fellows, is there any hope for a workaround without LG's grace to unlock the bootloader or should I simply return it and keep using my perfectly working iPhone for now?
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Click to collapse
Just got mine today and will be very disappointed if there is no way to unlock bootloader. I took for granted that it would be able to be done. May return now....
Really considering returning for this issue as well. I jumped from the S6, and may jump back. Still undecided.
Just because LG does not officially support an unlocked bootloader does not mean anything. Of all the devices that have bootloaders that are unlocked on this site, do you know how many of them came right from the device manufacturer?
I mean, you can do what you want as it is your device and your life, but ALL of our devs ALREADY have Root Access (just working on a safe method before it is released to the rest of the G4 community) and I am pretty sure bootloader will follow pretty close behind that, and even if not with just Root Access you can still do SO many great things that at that point the locked bootloader kind of ceases to be a big deal anyway.
......But again, do what you want and all that.
Z3ldaFan88 said:
Just because LG does not officially support an unlocked bootloader does not mean anything. Of all the devices that have bootloaders that are unlocked on this site, do you know how many of them came right from the device manufacturer?
I mean, you can do what you want as it is your device and your life, but ALL of our devs ALREADY have Root Access (just working on a safe method before it is released to the rest of the G4 community) and I am pretty sure bootloader will follow pretty close behind that, and even if not with just Root Access you can still do SO many great things that at that point the locked bootloader kind of ceases to be a big deal anyway.
......But again, do what you want and all that.
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This.
You have assuaged my concerns........for now
I appreciate the reassurance. I authored the post after a string of very unsatisfactory events with T-Mobile regarding the purchase. See my reddit post here. EDIT, what the heck - the subreddit went private literally the second after posting the link.
Basically put, the POS crashed after swiping my card and they just can't furnish a receipt. Not the store, not customer service, not retail support and I stood around with $400+ missing from my bank account while they debated if they'd let me leave the store with the phone. Well that and I now miss out on absolutely every promo deal offered.. Of course, they absolutely refuse to waive the restocking fee (but I did get an account credit).
I apologize if anyway my post was perceived as a whiny, spoiled brat - complaining at a lack of root/bootloader. The story went much deeper than that and I didn't take a moment to calm myself before posting (or explain myself fully at that).
All in all, I just gave up and stopped caring and will keep the G4. The iPhone is on eBay - good riddance and I'll spend this time getting used to Android again after working at the Jobs Mob for the last 3 years.
I'm going to get the nexus 6... S6 is to small for me.... This phone will take months to see an unlock bootloader and than months to see aosp.... G3 was different cause it came unlocked
I will say that it always amazes me how people expect unlock and root and AOSP to be out within a few days of a device release. Seriously...these devices are much more difficult to root and unlock than those from a year or two or three ago. Processor tech as well as addition of selinux has made this both more tricky and time consuming to develop. On top of that, they have SOO many more added hardware sensors and gadgets that AOSP takes more time to debug to get a proper build out.
Root/Unlock is in the works...as is AOSP....I know of one AOSP based dev working on the device tree now.
Personally, I think it is always a mistake to buy something if you don't at least love it as it comes out of the box.
*Edit: Regarding OP's issues with the sales process, that just sucks bro. I'd be royally P***ed at that.
rockerrock said:
I appreciate the reassurance. I authored the post after a string of very unsatisfactory events with T-Mobile regarding the purchase. See my reddit post here. EDIT, what the heck - the subreddit went private literally the second after posting the link.
Basically put, the POS crashed after swiping my card and they just can't furnish a receipt. Not the store, not customer service, not retail support and I stood around with $400+ missing from my bank account while they debated if they'd let me leave the store with the phone. Well that and I now miss out on absolutely every promo deal offered.. Of course, they absolutely refuse to waive the restocking fee (but I did get an account credit).
I apologize if anyway my post was perceived as a whiny, spoiled brat - complaining at a lack of root/bootloader. The story went much deeper than that and I didn't take a moment to calm myself before posting (or explain myself fully at that).
All in all, I just gave up and stopped caring and will keep the G4. The iPhone is on eBay - good riddance and I'll spend this time getting used to Android again after working at the Jobs Mob for the last 3 years.
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Click to collapse
No worries buddy. I completely understand your frustration based on the entirety of your situation and I do not fault you for being upset/aggravated in the least.
I also did not take your post as you being "whiny" or anything of the sort either, Your concerns are essentially the same ones all of us had the first couple of days (or at least a lot of us did, myself included). I just happened to have already put in enough time with the G4 to be able to know that it is still a rock solid device even in its stock form.....and since we are all but guaranteed to have a public Root method at this point, one day it is just going to end up being that much better.
So rest assured you made a great decision by keeping the G4 (especially over an iPhone) and it will not disappoint.
.......If you have any other questions or concerns about our device I am only a couple clicks away and would be more than happy to answer any questions that I can for ya......Now stop reading this and go play with that damn phone, lol.
Th3Bill said:
I will say that it always amazes me how people expect unlock and root and AOSP to be out within a few days of a device release. Seriously...these devices are much more difficult to root and unlock than those from a year or two or three ago. Processor tech as well as addition of selinux has made this both more tricky and time consuming to develop. On top of that, they have SOO many more added hardware sensors and gadgets that AOSP takes more time to debug to get a proper build out.
Root/Unlock is in the works...as is AOSP....I know of one AOSP based dev working on the device tree now.
Personally, I think it is always a mistake to buy something if you don't at least love it as it comes out of the box.
*Edit: Regarding OP's issues with the sales process, that just sucks bro. I'd be royally P***ed at that.
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Phones by this time should have already developers tweeting about the root of the g4.... Not one of them has announced that they are working on a root or unlock method.....
Upstreammiami said:
Phones by this time should have already developers tweeting about the root of the g4.... Not one of them has announced that they are working on a root or unlock method.....
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Haven't done much searching, have you? jcase has posted MANY times on xda about it and has released a number of videos on youtube proving he has his phones rooted. autoprime has as well. Then, 2 days ago, thecubed announced they're working on it and are making progress.
Funny how you feel there should be a "timeframe" where thing should/must be done on a phone. Nothing like having some patience.
So, let me ask you this...would you rather they work on it and make a proper, safe release of unlock and root, or hurry it and potentially leave you with a brick?
Th3Bill said:
Haven't done much searching, have you? jcase has posted MANY times on xda about it and has released a number of videos on youtube proving he has his phones rooted. autoprime has as well. Then, 2 days ago, thecubed announced they're working on it and are making progress.
Funny how you feel there should be a "timeframe" where thing should/must be done on a phone. Nothing like having some patience.
So, let me ask you this...would you rather they work on it and make a proper, safe release of unlock and root, or hurry it and potentially leave you with a brick?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing like wanting someone to do you a favor and trying to tell them they are not doing it fast enough, eh.
.....I understand people be excited (as I am sure this guy is/was) but NEVER should you put the safety of your device (or EVERYONE on XDA for that matter) as a second class priority just because you want your Root Access now.
Also unless you are posted up in the Root Bounty thread (and actually pay out) then you really have no right to complain about anything as you are just basically trying to ride someone else's coat-tails and benefit from other people putting their devices and hard earned money up to show their respect and appreciation to our devs.
Also unless you are posted up in the Root Bounty thread (and actually pay out) then you really have no right to complain about anything as you are just basically trying to ride someone else's coat-tails and benefit from other people putting their devices and hard earned money up to show their respect and appreciation to our devs.
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Click to collapse
Count me in for $20 via PayPal. I'll post on the bounty thread soon as I have the money available
Now that I have actually used the G4 for awhile, I'm satisfied with it. The most apparent annoyance so far is some noticeable lag when carrying out tasks/app switching. I'm happy my generic OBD scanner pairs just fine (dtto on iOS) and I'm back to using aCar and other apps I've been missing.
rockerrock said:
I appreciate the reassurance. I authored the post after a string of very unsatisfactory events with T-Mobile regarding the purchase. See my reddit post here. EDIT, what the heck - the subreddit went private literally the second after posting the link.
Basically put, the POS crashed after swiping my card and they just can't furnish a receipt. Not the store, not customer service, not retail support and I stood around with $400+ missing from my bank account while they debated if they'd let me leave the store with the phone. Well that and I now miss out on absolutely every promo deal offered.. Of course, they absolutely refuse to waive the restocking fee (but I did get an account credit).
I apologize if anyway my post was perceived as a whiny, spoiled brat - complaining at a lack of root/bootloader. The story went much deeper than that and I didn't take a moment to calm myself before posting (or explain myself fully at that).
All in all, I just gave up and stopped caring and will keep the G4. The iPhone is on eBay - good riddance and I'll spend this time getting used to Android again after working at the Jobs Mob for the last 3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if you called your card company and disputed the charge, if a receipt would magically appear?
Patience young turd burglar. G3 seemed to be hopeless until the TWRP exploit was found. Next time do some research before purchasing if you want instant gratification (oooohhhh myy). Otherwise be patient for the other developers to releases a safe method
Its kinda weird hearing about all these situations where the store computer locked up and cant give receipts. Funny cus when i went to get my nexus 6 for 0 down, the rep said "oh darn, i closed the transaction window and i cant print a receipt now, sorry" hmmm. I smell a whole sea of fish here....
Someone in my family had her Galaxy S9 stolen. She reported it to Verizon and they had the EMEI blacklisted with all carriers.
But how permanently attached is the EMEI number, can't you just wipe it/hack it?
How sophisticated does a thief have to be to circumvent it and make it work on a carrier again?
FYI: I am not asking anything about how to "get around a blacklisted EMEI" number nor do I want to hear about a single way of doing so.
I simply wanted to ask if blacklisting the EMEI is very effective against a phone thief?
We had a brand new S9 stolen, and reported it to Verizon, but they are just general customer service. So their claim that it can't be used by anyone in the US doesn't really mean much to me
halfhumble said:
Someone in my family had her Galaxy S9 stolen. She reported it to Verizon and they had the EMEI blacklisted with all carriers.
But how permanently attached is the EMEI number, can't you just wipe it/hack it?
How sophisticated does a thief have to be to circumvent it and make it work on a carrier again?
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It can be done. We don't necessarily allow discussion of how to do it here for obvious reasons, but the guy would have to be fairly competent on a computer to go in and do that.
More than likely he'll sell it really cheap to someone or a shady outfit that does know how to do it.
orangekid said:
It can be done. We don't necessarily allow discussion of how to do it here for obvious reasons, but the guy would have to be fairly competent on a computer to go in and do that.
More than likely he'll sell it really cheap to someone or a shady outfit that does know how to do it.
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Okay, that's what I figured, I thought there must be a way.
halfhumble said:
Okay, that's what I figured, I thought there must be a way.
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately yes. That is one thing iOS has over Android, I don't think it's possible to reprgoram an IMEI on an iPhone, so once it iCloud locks it really is a brick.
I still prefer Android though because of other pros.
orangekid said:
Unfortunately yes. That is one thing iOS has over Android, I don't think it's possible to reprgoram an IMEI on an iPhone, so once it iCloud locks it really is a brick.
I still prefer Android though because of other pros.
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Click to collapse
Interesting, didn't know that. Android manufactures should follow suit to reduce phone thefts.
Maybe it would have been better to NOT blacklist the EMEI when it's stolen, so that the thief or buyer activates it. Then report it like a month later to track who has it at the time.
If it's been sold, the police could work backwards from the for sale listing or emails with the buyer (Craigslist for example). Kinda elaborate though.....
halfhumble said:
Interesting, didn't know that. Android manufactures should follow suit to reduce phone thefts.
Maybe it would have been better to NOT blacklist the EMEI when it's stolen, so that the thief or buyer activates it. Then report it like a month later to track who has it at the time.
If it's been sold, the police could work backwards from the for sale listing or emails with the buyer (Craigslist for example). Kinda elaborate though.....
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Click to collapse
Yeah well it's not on the manufacturers really, I think it's just a limitation of AOSP and the way android works. Even KNOX can't prevent it or even working around FRP (which I had to do not too long ago for a legitimate forgotten password).
But yeah I think those types of thefts are probably too low importance for the cyber crime division to go thru those types of hoops. The only real possibility would have been to try to track the phone when turned back on, or put one of those invisible self installing tracker type apps in the SD card.
End of the day if you lose or phone or it gets stolen, you're pretty much SOL.
orangekid said:
Yeah well it's not on the manufacturers really, I think it's just a limitation of AOSP and the way android works. Even KNOX can't prevent it or even working around FRP (which I had to do not too long ago for a legitimate forgotten password).
But yeah I think those types of thefts are probably too low importance for the cyber crime division to go thru those types of hoops. The only real possibility would have been to try to track the phone when turned back on, or put one of those invisible self installing tracker type apps in the SD card.
End of the day if you lose or phone or it gets stolen, you're pretty much SOL.
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Click to collapse
"self installing tracker type apps in the SD card." Didn't know that existed. Will look into that.
I can't believe there's only one person who figured this out and he's monopolized on it anyone else
It's because it isn't an exploit.
Someone has access to an internal Samsung tool that generates the tokens. They have to be generated for each phone.
Why wouldn't someone able to do it make money off it, if you want someone to blame, blame it on Samsung, they're the ones who locked an entire region's phones.
Even if someone leaked an ubiquitous encryption key that worked for any device, which is highly unlikely, what would they gain, short lived praise for an alias they could probably never claim. Weight that against money in your account and it's pretty obvious why things are what they are.