Database Develop

New apple Ifoon versus the BA

From what I've seen there is not a lot more that the Ifoon can offer over what the BA has.
I like the look of the ifoon, but other than edge what else does it offer?
A bigger hole in the bank account.

Agreed.
Apple, welcome to 2004.

Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.

no ways yoz
fraser said:
Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.
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haha bros that's an apple patent.. we all know this!! software support always been an apple downfall. Not only that but no physical buttons?!? What happens when the 'super apple' touchscreen goes out? ouch! You got that bar of soap it so much resembles!
I dig my BA, but it's too big and bulky, get a hermes for that price! Apple and Jobs built a POS. They're just jealous that M$ is getting so much recognition with new smartphones. Last year at this time it seemed half the world didn't even know what a smartphone was.. until the release of these smartphones like the Q/blackjack, every lil 16yr old cries to their parents for one. What a crock! My opinion.
Apple needs to stick to software, the Intel macs are tearing up the G5's all around.

I have watched the introduction of the iPhone over the net.
This is the best device of this class!! It is lightning fast, it is operated with fingers only (no stylus!!!!!) it is a unique Softwae/hardware simbiot!!! After all how many IPods have crashed or needed soft reset, hard reset and so on? If Apple release this wonderfull device I'll get myself one for sure!
This is personal opinion!

OrionBG, I'm not convinced. I know at least three iPod users that have had serious problems. Dodgy batteries, music db corruption (complete loss) and other issues with iTunes have left me quite unimpressed. The mere fact that they force you to use iTunes bites the big one. My friend had to reset his whole library after his PC hard drive crashed. Well, he would have if it hadn't been for the "illegal" utilities I helped him use to recover most of it.
Apples "Just Works" thing is largely a marketing myth. Pop over to any unofficial apple forum to see the real issues that their hardware has. You can't discuss these things on their official forums; if you raise a bug that they can't be bothered fixing, they'll just delete the thread everytime you raise it. Check the discussion in that link; they have a long history of this.
They also sue websites and threaten them if they say anything bad about apple. If this forum was larger they would be complaining about my current post. Paul over at Modaco had to remove a Today screen for Windows Mobile that looked a little like the apple one announced. If you announce any Apple "secrets", they will threaten to sue you even though you have never signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement. They have bigger lawyers than you and more money to spend so people rarely fight back.
Apple suck. This is not the right way to run a company IMHO. They are a bad company guilty of anti-competitive practices and this has been consistent over the past five years. Their recent hardware has been very anti-consumer and of poor quality. The only reason they get away with it is because their main competitor has a worse track record in these regards and that they have a fantastic marketing department.

Have u heard about piratebay activity called http://buysealand.com/ they've just decided to buy small "island" - no lawyers problem anymore.
... and one of the greatest tactic is "how something is amazing" post by "ordinary people" together with deleting "the wrong one".

I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while

rambo6 said:
I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while
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Nobody will build a perfect phone : )

!! M$ !!
Sure everyone hates M$ but what are the most widely used OS variants in the world.. Without a doubt...Windows products! Eat that Apple/Linux/whatever users
Plus like I stated, the need for physical buttons are a must, no? That must be one super touchscreen on the apple it will be the one way to navigate? Not even a scroll wheel like relatively cheap smartphones? OUCH! hope you have absolutely clean fingers no matter what that screen will be soo smudged up with nastiness!
Apple jealous of M$ tearing up the mobile market, can't stand it! hahaha I love it!! They're hardware is behind, only thing they've got going for them is the camera.
Apple ish*t specs
Technical Specifications
Screen size 3.5 inches
Screen resolution 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method Multi-touch
Operating system OS X
Storage 4GB or 8GB
GSM Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera 2.0 megapixels
Battery Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams

I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
It's easier to shrug off the iPhone, especially if you don't have the money to buy it
cutting through the grituitous bashing, as well as the hype, I have seen good and bad things.
GOOD:
No doubt it has a hardware platform powerful enough to perform at least as good as our BAs, and probably better. Yeah, it could have 3G, but it would add too much to the cost of the machine.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability. Otherwise just pick up your Nokia 1110 with its black-and-white matrix and shut up.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate. And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
THE MIXED:
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
It will probably be bad for the hobbyst crowd, which would like to code for fun for their devices, and probably won't be allowed to. Unless Apple releases some open IDE a la Carbide, but since they are already closing up the door on software availability, this possibility is remote.
I think it's more bad than good, but at least we can hope this will be a death sentence for software developemnt for this platform, and that this will actually result in more security. Not that we have many actual threats out there, but smartphones have the potential to be hacked into, become zombies for spam botnets etc. etc. When the spammers/crackers start to tap on this, we might start to see Windows Mobile get into a nightmare...
THE BAD:
It lacks 3G, it does not have direct iTunes access (you have to cradle it to sync and add stuff);
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind? OK, I don't usually swap batteries around, but I tend to buy extended batteries (my BA has one). I only this machine has GOOD battery life, this might not bite as much.
It would be good to have a GPS throwed in too... hey, let me dream!
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time. I believe there have been t-mobile onlys before, after some time they will allow everyone to buy it. Remember, it's all about PROFIT. Apple will not close their market that much. If they can sell more, they will. They are probably working first with the operator which was easier to work with, they gave more of how apple wanted to control the device and the network. And they will probably use this to scrub on other operator and say 'Ok, if you don't do it the way I like it, I won't do you the favor of selling my devices to you' (Yeah, Apple is a bit like a diva). They will try to use the Cingular-only argument to try to drive the operator into submission. It's a reversal of roles, where usually the operators dictate what they want and don't want on their devices. And maybe they can pull it off.
IT's EXPENSIVE. Apple/Cingular is really 'stretching the thong' on this one. Either Cingular is not subsidizing AT ALL (have you thought of this possibility?), or the machine is really expensive.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag. The screen is the same size of a LifeDrive, which is not anywhere near the cost of this machine. 4-8 GB flash? look at the iPod nano's price tags. ARM CPU + radios, there are plenty out there. motion/orientation sensor? Hmm, look at the Wii controls, I think I have read something about them, those things are not expensive nowadays. The only exotic stuff is the multi-touch sensor, and those things exist for quite some time, they are just not popular. and lacking stuff like 3G radio, SD slot and... a removable battery cover (sigh) helps driving down the cost.
The profit margin is fat here! yeah, there is all this 'pay for R&D blah blah', but they are going to make a few good bucks.
BOTTOM LINE:
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.

pda...of course
in primis...here in hungary every apple stuff is sold for a double or triple price as in the US, this means, that the ifoon would cost minimum 1000-1200$...that is not affordable...or, of course, it is, but the ifoon doesn't worth that much...
pro secundo...the operator lock...well...it's discussed on many forums, that it wont be easy to crack it, so if it ever would be sold here, you couldn't change operator easily, and if not at all, it sucks...
pro tertia...the multitouch...say anything, that it's better than a single stylus...but i can't imagine, that i'll use my thumbs to scroll an ebook, or play minesweeper ;]...but anyway, if the software range is limited, than it matters no...sending an sms could be easyer, maybe, because, you could type...but you should use full screen keyboard...which is annoying, and anyhow, you could take it in your hand like a psp, so you could use only thumbs, that are big...and as mentioned...you will mess the whole screen with fingerprints all the time...that suck again
the thingy has no IRDA, this way you cannot use it as a remote control for tv, or what...
and, and as mentioned above...no gps, no sd, no changeable battery...anyhow 3G is said to be installed in it, till it will be merchandised...

Brazilian Joe said:
I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
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I disagree. Sure, their PCs will get you on the net but as soon as you try to do something more complex they fall down. Their support is rubbish and they regularly delete bugs and forum posts about issues they can't be bothered fixing. Their computer hardware and QC have been slated regularly. About the best thing they have going for them is their legion of fanboi's (and astroturfers) convincing people that their computers "just work" when it's not the case.
They also threaten sites like xda-developers as a general rule. They probably have more lawyers than developers, basically a small Microsoft during it's evil phase.
About the only thing they've done right lately is the iPod, and even it has all the "all apple, all the time" idea where you can only buy music from iTunes and get it on to the device. If you try to write software so that people are free to use something else other than iTunes, they'll sue you for that.
Oh, and now they are charging you for patches and feature updates and calling it "an accounting quirk".
Apple suck, most people are just too blinkered by their dislike for Microsoft to see it.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
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It's nice, but I'm not all that impressed. Sure, most of us will have seen the multitouch proof-of-concept videos last year on a full PC, but this is on a phone. There isn't all that much room for more than one active finger. And what about one-handed operation? You'd need to have it on a table for multi-touch. And what, on a mobile, can it actually be used for that's superior to any other UI component?
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability.
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It's most redeeming feature IMHO.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate.
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Nope, built of OSX and it uses iTunes. That's quite a legacy there alone.
And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
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I could not disagree more. All they've done is take a standard device and slap a pretty UI on it. We could get that via a software update on old hardware right now. In fact, we had it and they forced hanmin to remove his post via bogus legal threats. One good thing about all of this is that MS will have to rethink their UI and play catchup a little.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
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My digital camera has that, it's very useful and intuative. You see it happen once and from then on it's instinctive just to rotate it. However, on a phone when it has to send redraw events to the running applications and deal with resolution changes, I'm not convinced this is something you want switching everything you move your arm.
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
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That's fine, but IMHO if you visit the xda-developers website often, this is not the phone for you. If you visit "hello" magazine and read about Paris Hilton, maybe that's the software delivery model designed just for you.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
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Not sure, signing doesn't prevent piracy, it just prevents tampering and provides a trust mechanism. Unless they generate you an unique key-pair for every purchase which I seriously doubt.
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
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Stream via WiFi, via iTunes and your credit-card? Standard Apple practice, charge 'em where possible.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind?
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Making money. Officially when your iPod battery dies (often 1 year old), you have to buy a new iPod.
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time.
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Don't hold your breath, it's a two-year (!!) contract.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag.
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No, but the Apple logo does apparently. All of their stuff is at least 30% over market value.
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.
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Agreed. Might even get one myself, but I reckon that it'll give the other mobile platforms a kick up the butt and they'll be well ahead by then.

The subject is iphone versus BA
Nobody actually talk about BA at this thread.
Obviously, iphone wins.
Apple's real advance is draw all ppl's attention, media focus, even they build a ****.
Jobs yells, Look at our new ****!!

yoz my last post as a BA user
Heck I have cingular and i'd take a $200 BA over an $499 iphone anyday!! My last post as a BA user, I loved it, great, fast, versitile device. 3.5" display can't beat that.. widescreen at 240x320.. amazing hardware when it released. Lets seea crossbow leap to the BA.
! Long live HTC !

A friend of mine is very Iphone-minded; so from the moment he get's it, I'll have a look at this "device".
I can tell you this much: you will only be able to do with it what apple wants you to do with it - modifying, installing apps? forget it!
I can't imagine a iphone-developers.com

Hmm, there is an iSupply review estimating the BOM (hardware cost alone) to be around 250/280 for the 4/8 GB iPhones.
Even if I lived in the US, I wouldn't rush into the iPhone. i'd wait and see.
I like to see all technological advancements, and I am not a fanboy of ANY brand.
For example, while I have always preached AMD over intel since the K6, now I am recommending Core 2 Duo to anyone who asks. The performance speaks for itself. Since I acknowledged what the Centrino was doing, I kept a close eye on the Intel developments... When They announced that the Core 2 Duo would have an average 20% better performance over the Core Duo, I seriously doubted about it. I have read the technical articles, but I still was skeptic, believeing that they were trumpeting a 'best case' as if it were THE performance. But I was wrong. Core 2 Duio is really all that, and it will be interesting to see AMD catching up.
personally, I actully think AMD will pull it off, with the 'specialized cores' approach. They will embed a GPU (I believe it will be generalized and simply called a 'stream processor') in a multi-core package this year, and soon I believe we will see a Crypto core, and who knows what else. maybe AMD even ecides it's a good idea to have a FPGA as an extra core, and that would open an incredible number of possibilities.
Back to the iPhone subject:
I see the iPhone design as the antithesis of Nokia, nothing is more antagonic to the 'buttons only' approach of S60 than a touchscreen-only.
UIQ and Windows Mobile stay in-between, playing both games, but apparently losing on both. I would like to have a hands-on test drive on the iPhone, but I believe they got it right on the interface.
I really believe the software model they are trying to impose is on of iPhone's greatest risks, the other one is being locked on Cingular for too long, and those could cause its demise.
I really hope it suceeds though, because there is at least one thing it brought to the market, and I really, really hope Microsoft adds it to Photon (WM7): MultitouchScreen.
Competition is good.

well. I have read a great deal on the new i phone. My own opinion is simply that they will NOT corner any part of the mobile phone market let alone come anywhere close to the BA or HTC models of any description.
Apple are already running into stupid problems already if the BBC news here in UK is correct. Apparently the "i phone" name is already a no go thanks to a previous copyright name came from a different company. And as far as being original and up2date....apple are always very close to the mark when it comes to this. Remember last year towards Nov Dec time when LG showed up with their version of what they say as the interactive mobile phone. And how close
the apple phone is in comparison to the LG. I say no more.
OS X maybe pretty to look at, but I much prefer the adaptability and personalizing of the modern Windows Phone edition etc. Have what you want, when you want, HOW you want. AND then....carry ALL your media content including movies mtv clips cartoon....oh yes...AND music (mp3 ogg files etc)it all about (if you prefer) on you OWN memory card.
I digress...

Well, Apple is not that much of a stupid company.
They negotiated and researched before trumpeting the iPhone name.
More recently, after the 'what did they had in mind' reaction, it came up that complaints were filed both in the US and in the EU, in attempt to revoke Cisco's copyright over the iPhone brand for lack of use.
Seems they picked one of their existing products and just badged it as an iPhone, to try to keep hold of the name at the expiry date.
the productitself was released much later and is not what they showed previously, so Apple is trying to free up the name.
Well, it's a gamble, but they would't even try if there was no chance to win on trial.
It will depend on convincing the judge that Cisco was sitting on the name and not using it for too long, so long that they lost their rights over it.
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

Kaizer or Apple Iphone?

I know, Kaizer packs more in, but i hate 3G due to battery drainage and am happy with Edge. The Apple is way cooler no doubt, but no gps and the keyboard sucks?
tough call...

Your poll is gonna be a bit biased hah
Iphone lacks 3rd party support
can't swap battery
no keyboard
not subsidised
premier discounts voided
just a few reasons I can think of at the moment.
Also many ppl who *would* have an 4/8 gig Iphone have a 20-80gig Ipod already, so theres little advantage to getting it other than its kinda cool.

Don't know what you think your poll is going to show other than Teens will vote for ipone and Business folk will go for the Kaiser....
d

I vote for iphone.
HAHAHAHAHA!

Definitely Kaiser! Can't wait for it to hit the shelves!

Well considering the only thing you say you don't like about the Kaiser is the 3G then i'd suggest you run with the Kaiser as you can choose which network to be connected to on-the-fly.
iPhone really is the most overhyped phone to ever be released.

i'd go for the kaiser out of the two because i like the keyboard, and i'm not really a fan of apple products - and i think having a phone with a non user replaceable battery is lunacy!
what about the new se p1i? i used to really like sony's but went for the tytn as i couldn't be arsed to wait any longer for the p990...

dwella said:
Don't know what you think your poll is going to show other than Teens will vote for ipone and Business folk will go for the Kaiser....
d
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hahaha im a teen but even i know the kaiser is better. im not gonna be tricked by apple. ppcs are way better.
so far only 3 votes on the iphone lol

http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2007/iphone-name-en.shtml
after reading that, i think you will have only 1 choice... i was really shocked of course i had my bias, but i didnt know it was that bad and that limited

EDGE???
Show me the place in UK where it works???
AFAIK there's no EDGE on nay of UK networks...

Im pretty sure Orange supports EDGE.

It all depends on what you are doing.
I have used the iPhone (my brother's) and I must say that is is pretty slick and rock-solid in terms of connectivity - albeit slow connectivity relative to 3G.
IMHO - if you need something that is half-baked iPod, half-baked iPhoto plus a phone with pretty bad audio, but WAY COOL looking - you get an iPhone. Of course, you cannot mind being tethered to the mother ship.
Now, if you are mobile, need email, want to download RSS feeds, video and audio podcasts and need all of the connectivity options to handle scenarios ranging from client office wireless networks to airports to taxicabs and your own office Plus you want some music and photos of your kids (or car or babe), you get a Kaiser.
Now if either of them had that 1.2 million color screen of the N95 we would be talking some serious beauty!
Personally, I will be camping - pre-iPhone style in front of my ATT store on September 3 for a Kaiser!

Umm, no offense to anyone but it seems to me that when one considers phone purchase of this kind, the iCrap and the Kaiser cannot be in the same category.

Its not a tough call... the Iphone is a piece of **** for people that don't have a hard demand on their phone. If you are a power user get a Kaiser.

if you want features besides an mp3 player and a picture viewer like every phone out there has, get the kaiser.

It is as comparing Apples with Pears (Tytn II) ;o))

Blasphemer
If you were true to htc and windows mobile you would stick with the kaiser, iphone even thou its got its nufty features like that zoomng in and the keyboard (which on our windows mobile you can now simulate) its still buggy even after the updates at least with kaiser you know its got windows mobile 6 plus u get full keyboard and the tilt and brilliant for the gps even thou the battery would drain faster who cares go on ebay get a higher capacity battery and in car charger then get a extra battery while your there and a exturnal battery charger thats what i did for the Htc Universal (which sadly broke grr that usb port breaking and then gettting stuck in bootloader mode)

Fleetphoenix said:
If you were true to htc
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Oh dear. No-one should stick to a product just because of the company that makes it.
The iPhone is a good bit of kit. Sure, it's got its flaws (no 3G, no custom ringtones) but for the average person that wants to trade in their iPod and Nokia for a single device, it'll do the job.
Most people are here because they use Pocket PC phones. The iPhone can't compete with them (however much it pretends it can). It's locked down, it's got limited email options and frankly, we're used to being able to customise our devices up the wazoo.
If Apple made a decent phone and HTC came out with a turkey, staying with them through loyalty would be foolish to the extreme.
You may show loyalty to a company, but at the end of the day, they're only interested in profits, and they will not reciprocate.

This poll is bound to be biased...
I mean, this is a WM developers forum. After the amount of work we put into the PPCs, most other phones(including the iPhone) look slightly,er, stupid?
On the other hand, I do wish HTC gave us 3in VGA screens. Come on HTC!, Arima does it.

Kaiser all the way.
What can the Iphone do that a Kaiser wont be able to do once the geniuses here at XDA-developers have a a tweak with the ROM. Isn't it only a matter of time before someone comes out with an implementation of the pinch/squeeze-zoom for photos afaik this is the only feature WM devices can't currently match.

HTC Touch Diamond Vs iPhone 3G

OK so now that both have been officially announced, and both will be out in the UK in July, what would you go for and why?
Personally, I iPhone 3G holds a lot of appeal for me, it has resolved all its shortcomings from the original version it’s a tough choice.
For me, the only thing holing me back are: -
1. Support for third party applications, it’s limited at the moment, but will get better over time.
2. A proper satnav application that can make use of the built in GPS (TomTom on the iPhone 3G!)
Please share your thoughts...

Most of the new software features are things that Windows Mobile has done for ages. I'm actually quite pleased with the 3G iPhone - the Touch Diamond has it beaten in key areas for me. These include style, size (apparently it has got bigger, while HTC has managed to make the Touch Diamond smaller than the Touch), handy features and third-party applications.
What shocks me is the way people are reacting to some of the features - Apple seemed to introduce A-GPS as some sort of new innovation, when the Touch Diamond is already out in places, with that very feature...

If you heard the keynote you'll see that apple will have the phone call home. They also sign every executable. That means 'homebrew' wont really exist.
They said that developers can still make free apps, but they have to be distributed through the apple store. In the end thats not going to make a huge difference and you'll see plenty of apps for the iphone appear very very quickly.
For me the 3g iphone wins in everything except size and screen resolution. The main thing that made me think twice about the diamond was the 3g iphone battery life!
.. to be continued.. not decided yet

Dark Fire I know what you mean. Apple fan-boys always seem to be impressed when Apple implement something Windows has been doing for years, and this is not just in iPhone but also the Mac OS as well.
For my money I would go with the Touch Diamond anyday. Apple will always have too much control over it for my liking - I mean today people seemed ecstatic that Apple would now allow you to make and buy applications for it!

Tim 45 said:
Dark Fire I know what you mean. Apple fan-boys always seem to be impressed when Apple implement something Windows has been doing for years, and this is not just in iPhone but also the Mac OS as well.
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Click to collapse
True, but you got to admit whatever windows does, osx and linux do about 10 fold faster.

Can't buy an iPhone, if you have fingernails, you can't use the keyboard. Useless.

Actually that reminds me... on the iphone you can press a key, and it kind of pops up the letter above your finger. You can slide your finger to another letter if that one is wrong i.e. it only picks the letter when you lift your finger.
Does the HTC keyboard do that at all?

Well, as pointless it may be to others, size & weight really matters to me & the Diamond fits perfectly in my hand or pocket can't say that about the iphone the only downside to having that stunning 3.5" screen.

No, it doesnt

someone1234 - Yes.

I think I will be sticking with the diamond, and then waiting and seeing what applications come out for the iPhone. I can always move over to it.

Would you need to include the Sammy i900 in this comparison? Due about the same time.

SolusCado said:
someone1234 - Yes.
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Click to collapse
cool! thanks.
I think once the 3G iphone is unlockable i'll buy one. For $199 its a bargain. Until then its not worth it - there'll be no decent apps, and what there are will probably cost stupid money.
So I'm decided.. sticking with diamond.

Size is the big issue for me. Diamond wins hands down.
In fact, the only point that iPhone wins is in the interface but TouchFlo is not far behind now, after tweaks

Somehow i think an unlocked iphone 3g is gonna cost a lot more than $200!! more like $300-$350 your forgetting thats $200 plus a maybe 2 year contract!
IMO the diamond has it beat apart from the memory.
Diamond has these over the 3g iphone:
Twice the resolution
video calling
faster browsing
Stereo bluetooth Headphone Support (not confirmed on the 3g iphone)
Picture Messaging (not confirmed on the 3g iphone)
Stylus if prefered
Better Camera
Way More Apps and games for now.
Not restricted to certain providers.

someone1234 said:
True, but you got to admit whatever windows does, osx and linux do about 10 fold faster.
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Click to collapse
Indeed - 10 fold faster, several years later. That's the main difference these days...
someone1234 said:
Actually that reminds me... on the iphone you can press a key, and it kind of pops up the letter above your finger. You can slide your finger to another letter if that one is wrong i.e. it only picks the letter when you lift your finger.
Does the HTC keyboard do that at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it definitely does that. The problem with the HTC keyboard is that the letter doesn't appear above the key you're pressing - the key sort of expands, so it's still mostly obscured by your finger. I don't really know why HTC thought that was better...
jkr284 said:
Somehow i think an unlocked iphone 3g is gonna cost a lot more than $200!! more like $300-$350 your forgetting thats $200 plus a maybe 2 year contract!
IMO the diamond has it beat apart from the memory.
Diamond has these over the 3g iphone:
Twice the resolution
video calling
faster browsing
Stereo bluetooth Headphone Support (not confirmed on the 3g iphone)
Picture Messaging (not confirmed on the 3g iphone)
Stylus if prefered
Better Camera
Way More Apps and games for now.
Not restricted to certain providers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my point. The tables have turned - the Touch Diamond has the 3G iPhone out handy-featurised and, if anything, the Touch Diamond slightly wins on specs too.
Also, yeah, I think $199 is with a contract. I was reading that Apple wouldn't let network operators subsidise the iPhone before, but now they will let them do that, hence the much lower price.

imranbashir_uk said:
OK so now that both have been officially announced, and both will be out in the UK in July, what would you go for and why?
Personally, I iPhone 3G holds a lot of appeal for me, it has resolved all its shortcomings from the original version it’s a tough choice.
For me, the only thing holing me back are: -
1. Support for third party applications, it’s limited at the moment, but will get better over time.
2. A proper satnav application that can make use of the built in GPS (TomTom on the iPhone 3G!)
Please share your thoughts...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TomTom for iPhone is already in beta testing and should be released shortly after the 3G iPhone hits stores.

imranbashir_uk said:
OK so now that both have been officially announced, and both will be out in the UK in July, what would you go for and why?
Personally, I iPhone 3G holds a lot of appeal for me, it has resolved all its shortcomings from the original version it’s a tough choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But.... how about cut/copy/paste -- no mention of them.
For me, after trying two different iphones, I have to say that iphone2 is underwhelming -- we who have WinMo phones have been using the direct push email for more than a year and the volume of apps available (many either free or very inexpensive) tip the balance. I know apple has an advantage in controlling hardware and software-- they can optimize them and we see faster performance (but not always) -- but with WinMo there's both hardware and software that will fit everyone's needs/wants. Speed isn't everything.... and I kind of like the freedom from "mother apple" control (according to current info it will be extremely difficult to jailbreak this system).

Why you need an apple when there is HTC

one thing iPhone 3G got its CHEAP hehehehe

IPhone release claim

the new iphone 3g is here. i think im right in saying we all now it
but in the advert it claims to be the first phone to beat the iphone
forgive me if im wrong but doesnt the kaiser still out perform the new iphone
nb. there isnt really a purpose to this thread it just marks as a discussion thread for those who want to compare

It's all about personal preference and what the users expect from their devices. Some will find one superior, some will prefer the other. Not much more to say, the rest is just marketing crap...

fair nuff. but im sure the iphobne doesnt have a second camera for vid confrencing call

3g iphone is nice. But, i will be getting a touchpro.

i think my kaiser will do for know. its does what everyone elses does and more coz of 3rd party stuff

jayjay8585 said:
im sure the iphobne doesnt have a second camera for vid confrencing call
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't. But even if I've had video call cameras on my phones for 2 years now I think I've used it maybe twice to give it a try at the beginning, same for my friends... so I'd say apple took a good decision not to add one and increase costs for a small percentage of people who actually use it.
iphone does have 3rd party stuff too. With the first one it was unofficial only, now it's official as well.

i bet you that the winmob 3rd party stuff can do a lot more than the iphons

Certainly. But still, the appstore claims having more than 500 apps for the iphone now at launch time. Already quite a bit, and the offer can only grow more. Of course WM has years of advance.
I still prefer WM for the "geek-friendly" hacks. Doubt we'll find some WMWifiRouter likes on the iphone soon.

To use the phrase "out perform" can be misleading. Can we just list what the iPhoney does, that the Kaiser cannot, and vise versa? If one does something "better" than the other, that doesn't count, because "better" can be subjective.
Can the new iPhoney tether, MMS, copy/paste, take movies, Open/Edit Office docs, open RAR/ZIP files, Off line maps&GPS, double as a card reader, and the MOST important to me can you run thousands of third party apps?
Now what can the iPhoney do the Kaiser cannot?

GWelker62 said:
Now what can the iPhoney do the Kaiser cannot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nothing!!!!
its a new apple toy and thats it!
i love my htc devices... this are the perfect toys for big boys *rofl*

I really don't like apple at all. Their marketing/advertising team brain washes people to believe their products are far superior. its genius but they are just a buncha crooks IMO; You pay extra for the brand now. Don't get me wrong, they make fair products, but like what HTC did to us with the whole 3d driver deal, apple does that every day with all their products b/c they are clever enough to lace pop culture, hipster, fads, style, cliches, ect into their prods so people want to buy them to "fit in" or "complete" themselves. Then they have all the lil accessories to add onto it like its a freaking lego world. I used to paintball a lot and the gun makers would do the same with their "low end/cheap guns that perform like high end/expensive guns." They make a decent gun that will shoot but there are sooo many upgrades and customizations you can do to the gat that its like a hobby of building model cars or something. u keep adding to your collection and sooner or later you spend the same amount on the low end gun than you would have on an expensive one.
3g iphone should have been the very first iphone they launced. its propaganda. they planned it all for profit. now i heard the iphone2 will be something worth spending money on. but then again, it probably wont be 3g so they can release another one a year later to take more of people's money haha

people talking about the iphone doing video caling..it cant even record video! it cant copy and paste..it cant recieve mms natively..it cant do ALOT that it SHOULD lol

i think they rushed the 3g version
i read somwhere steve jobs didnt want to do a 3g iphone as 3g wasnt that popular (what????), and then lo and behold less than a year later iphone 3g is announced with serious cutbacks

god i really hate it when they say things that make it sound like the iphone is NEW TECHNOLOGY or better than anything else. it just sounds like a bunch of kids who dont know anything about technology, but there are supposed to be business people that come up with this stuff?
I'm gonna say anything and everything is better than the iphone, because it has NO BUTTONS. (dont even bother say "but there's a back button!")
youve probably seen all the different things it can run, it's speed, but without buttons it's basicly worthless. why would you wanna play quake 3 on the iphone if there is no way to play?
i just really hate the way they market the iphone, why does apple have to make such a big deal out of their products? i would much rather everytime a phone came out they claimed it was the best phone. either i would like it if NO PHONES were commercialized at all, or ALL OF THEM were commercialized like the iphone. and that is another thing i hate, i hate comparing things to the iphone, as if it is the almighty. why is it all about comparing to the iphone now? why cant you compare it to...the X51v lol. but serious, i hate it!!

nighty said:
nothing!!!!
its a new apple toy and thats it!
i love my htc devices... this are the perfect toys for big boys *rofl*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, there is one thing the iPhoney does and the Kaiser cannot. That is multi touch screen. So zooming in/out is really slick. I have to admit that is one nice feature, but I'm not converting just for that.

Conpetition on You Tube
Possibly a Youtube section should be put up as a challenge to the Iphone...

the new iphone has 3g but data no vid calls
what kind of 3g is this a 2.9g??

jahrami said:
the new iphone has 3g but data no vid calls
what kind of 3g is this a 2.9g??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know the 3G iphone HAS video call, but as there's no front camera it's either you watch the other one on the screen while he sees the landscape behind or he sees you while the screen is facing away from you...
The AT&T Tilt has no front cam either...
Video call is a feature of 3G thanks to the increased network speeds, but the only important part of a 3G phone is to be able to connect to and communicate with a so-called "3G" UMTS WCDMA network...

to my knowledge
at&t tilt is made for US region where there is no 3G networks? so this maybe why tilt has no front cam?
i rather use a dual cam for vid calls than flipping the phones over and over
kilrah said:
As far as I know the 3G iphone HAS video call, but as there's no front camera it's either you watch the other one on the screen while he sees the landscape behind or he sees you while the screen is facing away from you...
The AT&T Tilt has no front cam either...
Video call is a feature of 3G thanks to the increased network speeds, but the only important part of a 3G phone is to be able to connect to and communicate with a so-called "3G" UMTS WCDMA network...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

jahrami said:
to my knowledge
at&t tilt is made for US region where there is no 3G networks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Tilt also has 3G, and there are 3G networks in the US... just read a bit on here of all the Americans talking of it

Getting an HD7, some questions about the device.

1. Is the gunmetal/chrome/shiny band around the device metal? It looks like the plastic on my galaxy s in the pictures, but a bunch of reviewers have said that it's metal.
2. How do you guys like windows phone 7?
3. Is there any compelling reason not to buy the phone? (I can't think of any new wp7 phones coming out on tmobile)
Thank you for answering!

My first suggestion is to make sure if any the feature currently missing from WP& matter to you such as the MMS Video feature. IMHO, WP7 is the best cell OS I've used. It's very fast & does what it can do very well. GPS is much faster than it was on my old TP2. Been a while since I played with Android to compare the GPS on it. What I mean is it locates you very fast. On my TP2, it'd take a few mins just to find a satellite. Keep in mind in order to get GPS, I had to unlock my device & load a patched Navigon Select XAP & load my maps for the USA. As for the hardware, it is very nice IMO. The only metal on it though is the kick stand & a small piece on the back below the battery door.

I plan on keeping my galaxy s until I've made a decision. I can sell one or the other. (My friend offered me his HD7 for $200 which seems like a good price judging by what I'm seeing on ebay and craigslist)
From what I can tell, it has everything that I need.
Another question that I'd like to add is how is wifi support on the os? I currently have no data plan and run only on wifi. This has worked well for me as my school has free wifi in most places.

WiFi works great for me & doesn't seem to effect battery life as badly as it did on my old TP2. I keep it on WiFi when ever I'm at home.

Thanks! 10char

WP7 is very solid, but it's not as developed as Android. As the above post suggests, you should review the feature-set and make sure there aren't any critical absences.
I don't quite agree on the build quality. Having used an iPhone 3G, a Nexus One, and an HD2, the HD7 falls short IMO. It has an attractive design, no doubt, but the materials/execution feel somewhat cheap in comparison. My HD7 for example has a rattly battery door and originally had terrible buttons. HTC fixed the camera button, but the other three are a bit squishy feeling. If you buy the phone, make sure you check the buttons!
$200 is a pretty solid price IMO. I bought one with the button quality problems (mint otherwise) for $250, and I thought that was a really good price.
Having said all that, I'm not sure if it's your best bet with regard to the Wifi. As far as I know (and I could be TOTALLY wrong), the Wifi shuts off when the screen turns off, and there is no way to change this behavior. Don't think you'll get notifications with no data plan. I recently switched from a Vibrant (and I also don't have a data plan), and it was/is somewhat of a problem. Again though, there might be a way to control the Wifi standby.

inconceeeivable said:
WP7 is very solid, but it's not as developed as Android. As the above post suggests, you should review the feature-set and make sure there aren't any critical absences.
I don't quite agree on the build quality. Having used an iPhone 3G, a Nexus One, and an HD2, the HD7 falls short IMO. It has an attractive design, no doubt, but the materials/execution feel somewhat cheap in comparison. My HD7, for example has a rattly battery door and originally had terrible buttons. HTC fixed the camera button, but the other three are a bit squishy feeling. If you buy the phone, make sure you check the buttons!
$200 is a pretty solid price IMO. I bought one with the button quality problems (mint otherwise) for $250, and I thought that was a really good price.
Having said all that, I'm not sure if it's your best bet with regard to the Wifi. As far as I know (and I could be TOTALLY wrong), the Wifi shuts off when the screen turns off, and there is no way to change this behavior. Don't think you'll get notifications with no data plan. I recently switched from a Vibrant (and I also don't have a data plan), and it was/is somewhat of a problem. Again though, there might be a way to control the Wifi standby.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! I don't mind the wifi thing, that's how I have my vibrant set up (it drains the battery otherwise)
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Wait, that chrome on the sides is plastic covered with paint? It feels much more solid that the plastic bezel on the Vibrant though.

i've had 6 android devices in the past and i traded my android for the HD7 and i am very pleased with that decision.
Wp7 is so fast and smooth! its just beautiful and i love the metro ui. my mom has the galaxy s 4g and android just feels so stale and dated compared to how beautiful and smooth wp7 is. yea its not as developed but the things this phone does is genius! people, photos, music & video hubs are all genius and has nice things that i would truly miss if i ever switched to another OS. you find lil things that you think are genius lol. like for me ima HUGE picture freak and the fact i can go directly into picture taking while the screen is off is genius for me plus the camera software is the easiest i have used plus its fast.
wp7 is the most original os and i love it! i dont have to worry about force closes or downloaded utilities too keep my phone running at peak performance. the type of apps i dowloaded on android are completely different now. i download fun stuff and not utilities. i was a power user with android flashing the latest roms and re setting up my phone every week or so and now i dont have to worry about that.
your gmail account syncs flawless with wp7 as if its a android phone lol, and im talking contacts, calender, and email and top it all off its push email!
the data on the works fast. i had the g2 and mytouch 4g but things seem to load faster on the HD7.
i really like the OS an im very satisfied with it! i cant wait to see whats in store for the future on the OS. people truly dont give it enough credit