Related
There is a bit of uncomfortable and uneasy feeling with the advent of a GPS device on my hip, not that I really have anything to worry about, but the US was built on Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Seems that we should remove the Liberty part of that as of late, but damnit, if they want to watch me and invade my privacy, it should NOT be on my dime, further more, I’d like to think that the pics I take of the latest female won’t be observed by an assigned GMAN torn from his family and in need of whacking himself off.…
Anyway, I saw a Treo 750 that had a privacy tab on the GPS applet, (obviously privacy from carrier from data provided by BT GPS device, knowing they distribute the same binary, this should be reproducible on our HTC devices, knowing we run Windoze, and I haven’t seen anything to monitor what the system console has been doing, and to top that off, there is periods with my Tilt that the interface is unresponsive, and I am not the only one that has had a problem with the Google maps app connecting to com4. So anyone out there wonder what MY device is doing with MY processor ticks besides me?
Anyone out here that has been looking into the reg entries for the GPS applet?
?Glitch
ummm what?
the GPS is not active unless you're using a GPS program like TeleNav, Google Maps, Windows Live Maps, TomTom Navigator etc.
and how is anyone going view pics that you take with your phone without your knowledge? GPS is only for position information, data cant be transferred by GPS. and who the hell is watching you anyways? unless youre on the FBI's most wanted list or something no one cares or wants to know where you are or what you are doing.
geez, paranoid much?
oh, and GPS or not, you can be tracked just by having a cell phone on you. its call triangulation using cell towers. hows that for paranoia.
All approved cell tracking apps have to send the device a text every few days confirming that it is being tracked (to avoid spouses tracking their other halfs)...
But that doesn't mean that people aren't hacking them and developing unapproved ones...
You knew this already when you bought your phone. And who is watching you anyway. And if it is really neccesery you provider can track you by in and outgoing phone calls to see where you were at a certain time. So your privacy was gone as soon as you got your first mobile phone.
tinfoil hat?
tripitaka said:
tinfoil hat?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking Thorazine.
dscline said:
I was thinking Thorazine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep telling yourself that while at&t has created their own programming language to parse the data they compile on everyone and turn it over to the spooks. Keep up with the EFF as of late? Ever wonder what a gov't might be capable of if held ABOVE the law? What about an evident relationship between big biz and a gov't capable of these ethics, or lack there of... Really think about it, how long will it be before state gov't gets ahold of the data and begins to issue speeding tickets based on GPS data gleened from our devices, do you think it would be that difficult for the radio to open com4 and collect data without blinking the orange light?
And as for my rant, yes I knew I purchased a device with GPS, but I didn't purchase a device for the spooks, it is my processor, my processor ticks, my OS, my hardware, if I bought the spooks a device I'd have sent it to them, if they want to use my device in the interest of surveillance, then they should pay me for my system resources... No free lunch, understand?
?Glitch said:
And as for my rant, yes I knew I purchased a device with GPS, but I didn't purchase a device for the spooks, it is my processor, my processor ticks, my OS, my hardware, if I bought the spooks a device I'd have sent it to them, if they want to use my device in the interest of surveillance, then they should pay me for my system resources... No free lunch, understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And as the guys said, the GPS has nothing to do with anyone being able to track you (other than potentially being slightly more accurate). If you are seriously worried about all of the above, then buy an old mine (in a false name) and live down it.
Personally, I have no plans to commit terrorist attrocities or criminal activity, so I don't mind if Police/Government could track me (or more importantly suspected terrorists/criminals) if they wanted to.
Personally I expect they'll stick to good old network triangulation - it's cheaper, it works with any mobile, and there's literally no way you'd ever know "they" were doing it
Sleep tight now...
Just send a letter to President Bush and Congress thanking them for the good 'ol Patriot Act that was passed some years back...
?Glitch said:
Keep telling yourself that while at&t has created their own programming language to parse the data they compile on everyone and turn it over to the spooks. Keep up with the EFF as of late? Ever wonder what a gov't might be capable of if held ABOVE the law? What about an evident relationship between big biz and a gov't capable of these ethics, or lack there of... Really think about it, how long will it be before state gov't gets ahold of the data and begins to issue speeding tickets based on GPS data gleened from our devices, do you think it would be that difficult for the radio to open com4 and collect data without blinking the orange light?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, it was a joke. Get a sense of humor. Secondly, if you do believe everything you type, then you should not expect such things to be so easily circumventable as changing a few reg keys. If you want to change the way things are headed, fight with your vote, and with activism, not with "hey, I bought this device because I think it's cool, even if the potential is there for it's capabilities to be used against me... anyone have any easy fixes?"
No matter what is possible, the fact remains that there are billions of civilians, compared to a relatively small number of people who could potentially have access to such data. If you have done nothing huge to draw significant "national security" type attention to yourself (which I have to assume you haven't, posting on on public board and all), the chances are minuscule that anyone who could invade your privacy has any interest in doing so.
"Blocking access" to a single phone that no one is even going to try to access isn't going to solve anything. And if we get to the point where our phones DO get used for the purposes you describe, it's too late. At this point, you're better off focusing your energies on a political front rather than a technological one.
I don't think the concern is the government. Now, electronic tracking data is becoming an issue in civil legal proceedings (lawsuits, contested divorces, etc.) - "EZ-Pass" toll data is one example, and auto-tracking systems are another.
I'm personally not too worried about this, but I can see why some law-abiding people might be concerned.
https://plus.google.com/117378076401635777570/posts/2y7vqXBtLny
Okay, who cares - if you don't like it, don't use it
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997R using XDA App
Facebook isn't much different. Does seem odd to me that Google seems to scream freedom & liberty to it's competitors about their data but wont let people freely use Google products as they so desire. Obviously having "fakesters" (heard that on the daily show) has it's downsides but what is the internet if not a place for people to live a fantasy life? =] Good luck deleting all the Mark Zuckerburgs on G+ google
，apple，microsoft，google ，and so on。if they want to check your detail，anytime
in fact, the above poster is right, a few months back did apple not say they were using the GPS coordinates in the iPhones to track location data? (which makes sense from a marketing stand point, they could see how many people actually used iPhones in different regions (i know some people who just bought one and never use it, just for the sake "oh, yeah, i own one" yeah, you bought a 700 dollar peice of technology and never touched it, smart.]
For now it looks preaty OK, will see what will be in a future...
I'm curious. Who are the "people at risk" mentioned in the "article" in the link? Personally, using my real name online doesn't mean anything negative to me. Surely anyone with anything to hide...
a) Wouldn't be on there.
b) Wouldn't be adding friends nilly willy.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
I dont see how it can affect me if i use my real name, anyway i dont see myself using G+ so much
Forgive me if this thread is out of place. I mean everything I say with the greatest respect for omnirom's devs and users.
I found out about omnirom recently. I was struck by its motto: "Omni isn’t better, just different." There has to be a better reason to go to the trouble of building a rom that's only going to be slightly different from AOSP or Cyanogenmod.
I want to make a suggestion. As a new android rom, why not fill a need in the community instead of saying, we've got nothing better to offer you, only something different. Novelty wears off and people want more than just "different" from their operating systems.
Can I suggest a huge glaring need in the Android rom space that no major mod is filling? Security and Privacy.
The NSA and other intelligence agencies and corporations are launching attacks on people. Even Google is doing that. Months after I got my new android device, I was shocked when I found that Android was uploading all my contacts and other data to google's servers without asking me.
Read this article (Ars Technica: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary) to see how Google is making a walled garden with Android.
With 4.4, Google seems to be going even further. They won't stop. Google is using android as a trojan horse to collect information from people and sell it. Facebook is also doing it. The NSA is doing it.
Is there anybody out there who respects people and their privacy any more? I can't think of any major rom that does it.
Omnirom has xplodwild, Dees_Troy and Chainfire and many other talented developers, but why is the only thing they offer us a slightly different rom?!
We techsavvy people want more from our roms than that. Our pressing need in this day and age is not split screen apps. We're being constantly spied on by everybody and being monetised by everyone. What about end-to-end email security via Mailpile and the Dark Mail alliance? What about the Freedombox project?
Omnirom's description says, "Omni is what custom ROMs used to be about – innovation, new features, transparency, community, and freedom." Every android rom innovates new features and they're all open source because Android is open source. Most of them have a community focus. How is Omnirom any different?
Every project needs a reason to exist. I can't see omnirom's reason for existence.
There is a lack of respect for people by governments and corporations. They seek to use us or buy and sell us. Omnirom has the chance to fill a need in FOSS android world: A rom that respects and protects the data and the individual from legalized spying.
Let me respectfully ask this question. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to put all your talents to something useful and filling a need in the android world instead of being another flavour of stock Android?
Hoodahottie said:
Forgive me if this thread is out of place. I mean everything I say with the greatest respect for omnirom's devs and users.
I found out about omnirom recently. I was struck by its motto: "Omni isn’t better, just different." There has to be a better reason to go to the trouble of building a rom that's only going to be slightly different from AOSP or Cyanogenmod.
I want to make a suggestion. As a new android rom, why not fill a need in the community instead of saying, we've got nothing better to offer you, only something different. Novelty wears off and people want more than just "different" from their operating systems.
Can I suggest a huge glaring need in the Android rom space that no major mod is filling? Security and Privacy.
The NSA and other intelligence agencies and corporations are launching attacks on people. Even Google is doing that. Months after I got my new android device, I was shocked when I found that Android was uploading all my contacts and other data to google's servers without asking me.
Read this article (Ars Technica: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary) to see how Google is making a walled garden with Android.
With 4.4, Google seems to be going even further. They won't stop. Google is using android as a trojan horse to collect information from people and sell it. Facebook is also doing it. The NSA is doing it.
Is there anybody out there who respects people and their privacy any more? I can't think of any major rom that does it.
Omnirom has xplodwild, Dees_Troy and Chainfire and many other talented developers, but why is the only thing they offer us a slightly different rom?!
We techsavvy people want more from our roms than that. Our pressing need in this day and age is not split screen apps. We're being constantly spied on by everybody and being monetised by everyone. What about end-to-end email security via Mailpile and the Dark Mail alliance? What about the Freedombox project?
Omnirom's description says, "Omni is what custom ROMs used to be about – innovation, new features, transparency, community, and freedom." Every android rom innovates new features and they're all open source because Android is open source. Most of them have a community focus. How is Omnirom any different?
Every project needs a reason to exist. I can't see omnirom's reason for existence.
There is a lack of respect for people by governments and corporations. They seek to use us or buy and sell us. Omnirom has the chance to fill a need in FOSS android world: A rom that respects and protects the data and the individual from legalized spying.
Let me respectfully ask this question. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to put all your talents to something useful and filling a need in the android world instead of being another flavour of stock Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something that perhaps doesn't come across when reading about Omni is about our thoughts on security and privacy. I'm one of the loudest complainers about the actions of a few companies (Google being the main one), who are using Android as a platform to spy on people.
Make no mistake, Omni will seek to address that. One issue the community faces though is that it is currently at the ebb and whim of Google. If Google decide to do X, pretty much every custom ROM has no real choice other than to follow. The aim of Omni is to offer an alternative "upstream" to look towards, when you find out that Google has started to call home every inbound phone number that it doesn't "recognise", in order to find out if it's a company from Google Maps/Local... And presumably log that forever more with your account...
This is a timely question with a very reassuring response. There is F-Droid instead of PlayStore (but it tends to be a few months behind) and OsmAnd instead of Maps (which is better in some ways). I would like to see more in this direction too.
IMO unless your a spy or a criminal I don't see why someone would care about all that NSA stuff.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
pulser_g2 said:
Something that perhaps doesn't come across when reading about Omni is about our thoughts on security and privacy. I'm one of the loudest complainers about the actions of a few companies (Google being the main one), who are using Android as a platform to spy on people.
Make no mistake, Omni will seek to address that. One issue the community faces though is that it is currently at the ebb and whim of Google. If Google decide to do X, pretty much every custom ROM has no real choice other than to follow. The aim of Omni is to offer an alternative "upstream" to look towards, when you find out that Google has started to call home every inbound phone number that it doesn't "recognise", in order to find out if it's a company from Google Maps/Local... And presumably log that forever more with your account...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you thinking of implementing off the shelf carddav / caldav syncing? Instead of syncing with Google for calendar and contacts, you can sync with any other source (like ownCloud).
Something that Davdroid does.
I am using this setup on my own private Linux server the last few days and seems to work well.
Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk 4
jonathanxx1 said:
IMO unless your a spy or a criminal I don't see why someone would care about all that NSA stuff.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, this is the biggest problem that the security industry (ie. people like me) face, in trying to explain the issues here.
Here's a small example, to show you the problems, not specifically with the NSA, but with anything "cloud". Let's imagine a malicious attacker is going after you...
Let's look at your gmail account. It's likely that you signed up for it with your old Hotmail account (the previously most common type of email service). Most people did. It's also likely that you protect your Gmail account fairly well, but have likely not changed your Hotmail password in a while. That's likely the best way in for an attacker.
Now, before you say "OK, but what's the risk", let's take a look at what information is accessible to someone getting into your Google account.
Firstly, they know the details of all your android devices (IMEI etc) - they know what tablets you have, what phones you have, and their serial numbers and identifiers. They can also carry out a remote wipe on any of your devices via Mobile Device Manager. Let's come back to this later though
From Google Mail, they have a fair idea of what you're up to, based on your communications to other people. They can access your location history, and data-mine that, to figure out where you are. They can also look at your communications with other people via Hangouts and G+, and attempt to work out where you are (or simply use the GPS location). They can access the location sharing features of google's services, and see where you and your family are. They can see you're not at home (getting your address from an email), and go to your house, aware your kids are home alone, and rob the place, abducting them.
When you return home, you meet a scene of devastation. You take out your phone and call the cops. You call 911/999/112/whatever, but the call was intercepted and passed to the attackers, via software that was installed onto your phone remotely (via the play store's remote push system).
At this point, the attacker takes your phone, and puts you in the back of the van. He uses Google Device Manager, and removes the lockscreen password from your phone (via the forgot lockscreen code feature). This also resets your device encryption password to a known one. At this point, all the devices are turned off, and their SIMs removed, and you are driven to a remote location.
The attackers then call your partner (having got their number from your Google contacts), and demand $1 million, while telling your partner that you know they are currently in <name of place from their google shared location feature>. The same remote access toolkit is installed onto their phone (given they had used your email as a recovery email for their Google account), and this permits monitoring of their phone to check if they call 911 etc.
OK, that all sounds far-fetched, but that is all entirely possible. The sheer amount of data being held about you, by google and other cloud providers, is insane. I didn't even go into the possibility of financial theft here. Cellphones are a very important thing to people, and they often take them for granted. Would you consider that when you called 911 in a moment of need, that someone had remote-installed a piece of malicious software, which exploits an android security hole, to replace the dialer app, and route the call to a rogue attacker, pretending to be the emergency services?
The amount of control that "other people" have over a phone running "Google Apps" is immense. Don't just think about the "NSA" aspects of this - consider how devastating it would be if someone had access to your Google account. And now remember that anyone on the technical team of Google could (in theory) issue an access token to your account to a well-paying attacker...
Oh, and one of the best ways an attacker can get into your Google account is simply to steal a phone or tablet, and extract the Google authentication token. Sure, they might not be able to change your password, but they are now "into" the chain, and will be able to start the attack.
If this don't bother you, I don't know what will...
scanno said:
Are you thinking of implementing off the shelf carddav / caldav syncing? Instead of syncing with Google for calendar and contacts, you can sync with any other source (like ownCloud).
Something that Davdroid does.
I am using this setup on my own private Linux server the last few days and seems to work well.
Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I currently use {Card,Cal}dav syncing via my OwnCloud server. Thanks for the link to DavDroid, I'd not seen it before!
jonathanxx1 said:
IMO unless your a spy or a criminal I don't see why someone would care about all that NSA stuff.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's shocking that so many people don't (want to?) see the actual problem. The whole spying system is not just about tracking down terrorists.
Google, Facebook, etc and even governmental institutions collect our data to predict and influence our future actions.
So please devs, give us the option to be more independent from the big companies.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
I
pulser_g2 said:
I currently use {Card,Cal}dav syncing via my OwnCloud server. Thanks for the link to DavDroid, I'd not seen it before!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DavDroid is a pretty nice solution and you can set it up for multiple accounts.
I am still looking for a good note taking app (using Evernote now) to sync with my OwnCloud server.
Do you have any suggestions for a sort of Evernote replacement that can sync with OwnCloud?
Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
boernie said:
It's shocking that so many people don't (want to?) see the actual problem. The whole spying system is not just about tracking down terrorists.
Google, Facebook, etc and even governmental institutions collect our data to predict and influence our future actions.
So please devs, give us the option to be more independent from the big companies.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For your calendar and contacts there are solutions already. Main problem is where so you store your data. You will need your own server or trusted third party.
Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk
I'm trying to set up my own infrastructure
But I was surprised that there was not out-of-the-box solution to use CardDav and CalDav.
Maybe you could include the apps mentioned above as they are/will become open source.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
scanno said:
I
DavDroid is a pretty nice solution and you can set it up for multiple accounts.
I am still looking for a good note taking app (using Evernote now) to sync with my OwnCloud server.
Do you have any suggestions for a sort of Evernote replacement that can sync with OwnCloud?
Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
For your calendar and contacts there are solutions already. Main problem is where so you store your data. You will need your own server or trusted third party.
Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've found a nice notepad app, but none yet that use OwnCloud sync.
I was thinking about looking into https://github.com/spacecowboy/NotePad and trying to get it working with the API. It would be fairly easy to remove the "closed" bits like Dropbox sync etc, and use the OwnCloud backend. It would also be nice to add proper encryption of notes later on.
Anyone else interested? (I hate android app coding, I can't even get the dependencies to resolve for it to build... Thus contributing to my dislike for ANYTHING java based)
pulser_g2 said:
Something that perhaps doesn't come across when reading about Omni is about our thoughts on security and privacy. I'm one of the loudest complainers about the actions of a few companies (Google being the main one), who are using Android as a platform to spy on people.
Make no mistake, Omni will seek to address that. One issue the community faces though is that it is currently at the ebb and whim of Google. If Google decide to do X, pretty much every custom ROM has no real choice other than to follow. The aim of Omni is to offer an alternative "upstream" to look towards, when you find out that Google has started to call home every inbound phone number that it doesn't "recognise", in order to find out if it's a company from Google Maps/Local... And presumably log that forever more with your account...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thrilled to hear this! Do other omnirom devs share your opinion?
I know it's early, but does the omnirom team have specific security/privacy ideas they want to implement?
In the long run, I don't see the Android ecosystem remaining in one piece. It's going to fragment. Amazon has already done it. Samsung may make this move. And people who want privacy and secure communications need a rom (and perhaps it's own app ecosystem) to which they can turn.
Please think about changing your why omnirom page. Right now, its pitch is very weak. Add a section about privacy and security and people will flock to this rom.
boernie said:
It's shocking that so many people don't (want to?) see the actual problem. The whole spying system is not just about tracking down terrorists.
Google, Facebook, etc and even governmental institutions collect our data to predict and influence our future actions.
So please devs, give us the option to be more independent from the big companies.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm absolutely shocked every time I hear people say this. So many people just dismiss the NSA spying because they're not terrorists. They don't have the imagination it takes to understand that today's citizen is tomorrow's terrorist. Every country that spied on it's citizens has oppressed them.
I'm not a spy or terrorist, but I don't want my every thought and action logged away to be used against me later.
boernie said:
I'm trying to set up my own infrastructure
But I was surprised that there was not out-of-the-box solution to use CardDav and CalDav.
Maybe you could include the apps mentioned above as they are/will become open source.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't post links, but if you want your own secure cloud, look at the Freedombox project. It's Debian based and it has some radical ideas. Eben Moglen and Bdale garbee have worked on it since 2010. Eben Moglen's talk about countries spying on citizens came long before the NSA story came to light.
The website is kind of dead, but in August Bdale gave a talk where he said Freedombox 1.0 should come before 2014. It's on youtube.
boernie said:
It's shocking that so many people don't (want to?) see the actual problem. The whole spying system is not just about tracking down terrorists.
Google, Facebook, etc and even governmental institutions collect our data to predict and influence our future actions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a pretty simple solution to this!
Don't behave like expected.
Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk
Hoodahottie said:
Even Google is doing that. Months after I got my new android device, I was shocked when I found that Android was uploading all my contacts and other data to google's servers without asking me.
We techsavvy people want more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With all due respect to the OP, the above is the major problem. While many of us are "tech savvy" to one degree or another, I think we forget how to read sometimes.
When you're given that stack of papers to sign for your mortgage, car loan, credit card or bank account, how many blindly sign where we are told to be the agent of that company? Do you read what you are signing? If you answer yes, why is setting up your phone any different? We are told that such and such information is going to be collected when we sign up for our Google accounts. We are told that additional information is going to be collected when we set up our phone. Every time we start up GPS services, we are told Google is going to use this data they collect.
This causes me to wonder why it takes people by surprise when they learn that Google isn't a computer hardware and software company, but a marketing company. And even more wonder happens when they mention it's without their knowledge. Reading terms of service is important. They spell out exactly what they are going to do and give you the option not to participate. When I worked for IBM in the 80's, I had to sign away any rights to technology I developed while working there (with the exception of anything I started before employment and listed on their agreement). If I didn't want to do that I was my choice to not work there. The same thing happened with Tricord, Wang, Computer Associates, MAI, Excactium, Pivotal, etc
The other response about the NSA is troubling as well. We elect our representatives in this country every two four or six years. How many of those people that you voted into office voted yes to the Patriot Act? You want some scary reading, research the rights we gave up allowing that to happen.
We are innocent until proven guilty. The NSA "spying" doesn't just ensnare terrorist, but easily the whole population of the USA. Their model of two, three and more levels of contact captures everyone. The real question isn't I'm not a terrorist so why does it matter, it is I'm not a terrorist so why are you doing it?
We setup up these phones with the knowledge we would be tracked. We walk down the street and see security cameras watching. Then we complain about it? We allowed it to happen to have a whiz bang new phone or to feel safer.
" Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
I work in retail. Every year I hear people complain that we set Christmas stuff too early. Those same people are buying their lights, cards and trees in the same visit. If they didn't buy early, we wouldn't set early. If we truly cared about not being used as marketing data, we wouldn't be using these phones. We wouldn't use Google.com to search. We wouldn't re-elect many of those in office at the local state and federal levels.
Sorry for the rant, I'll step of the soapbox and allow this discussion to get back on track.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
With no disrespect, I wonder if people who ask me to take full responsibility understand life and power.
I understand that I have to take some responsibility for signing on for services and programs, but I blame the government and corporations more because they are many times richer and more powerful than me.
And they take advantage of that.
How many Terms of service agreements have I had to sign to use internet services? If I really read all of their ToS, I wouldn't have time for anything else. I'll bet that the ceos of these companies haven't read the ToS of their own products. They don't have to because they have the money to hire 50 of the best lawyers and ask them to craft a bullet-proof ToS.
They probably spent tens of thousands of dollars on the ToS. And I stand against all of that money and power, with limited time and resources and no law degree. Am I the one to be blamed? They know I'm tired from work, that I don't have a legal background and my attention span is limited and I need this product, and there is no other choice unless I'm willing to suffer a lot.
Often these multinational corporations control the whole market and I don't really have any choice. Look at the phone OS market now. I can choose between Android, iOS or Windows Phone. My choices are an open source OS built to facilitate spying, an overpriced, closed source, simplistic OS built by a company that co-operates with the NSA or a closed source, proprietary phone from an industry giant accused of anti-competitive behaviour and also collaborating with the NSA.
There's no real choice. Not just in the phone industry, but in most places in life. Powerful people don't become powerful by giving everyone else choices and freedom. They take freedom away. You ask me to take responsibility as if I had another, better choice. Apple, Google and Microsoft ToS will be mostly similar and it'll always protect their interests. There are no other real choices. It's always been that way, and why I blame the government, corporations and powerful people more than myself.
To really win, I'd have to devote my life to fighting all these powerful forces and even if I win, I'll have to spend the rest of my life defending against other crooks who'd try to do the same thing. I wouldn't have any time left for a life.
"You ask me to take responsibility as if I had another, better choice."
Who else is responsible for your actions?
"Apple, Google and Microsoft ToS will be mostly similar and it'll always protect their interests. There are no other real choices."
Yes, these companies are in business to make money. That is no different than you having a job to make money.
But do not tell me you or Bill or Steve or Larry do not have à choice. Ever heard of CP/M? An Altair? AltaVista? If you haven't, here is some history.
CP/M was a dominant operating system before DOS. Bill Gates made a choice to create Altair Basic for the Altair microcomputer being sold mail-order. That was the start of Micro-Soft (now Microsoft). He made another choice to create MS-DOS to compete against CP/M for the IBM PC and clones. He made another choice to start work on Windows to compete against Apple's graphical interfaces and IBM's TopView.
Before Steve Jobs made the choice to sell Woz's garage built microcomputer (later named the Apple) there was the Altair mentioned above. They made a choice to build an alternative.
Larry Page and Sergey Brin made the choice to start Google, thinking they could do search better than AltaVista, Yahoo, Excite, HotBot, MetaCrawler, etc.
Powerful people become powerful many times by giving others alternatives. The above mentioned powerful people are examples.
We can make the choice to use prepaid basic phones and not worry about anyone watching us because you don't use personal information to activate.
"To really win, I'd have to devote my life to fighting all these powerful forces"
You should. Doing so makes you powerful. Recently two women changed how one of the world's largest food brands makes their products. One of them eventually dropped out of the spot light and it became the crusade of ONE woman. Kraft Foods is changing how they make some of their Mac and Cheese products due to the efforts of one individual. No more Yellow #5 in their Mac and Cheese products specifically marketed at children. That was a choice she made. A fight that became part of her life.
We all have choices. We are all responsible for our own actions. We can't blame government as a whole because they are largely elected by us. We work to make money to live the life we choose. Corporations (started by individuals) do the same thing.
Sorry again for diverting off topic, but I have a difficult time with responsibility shifting to account for mistakes. We all make them (this reply is probably one of mine). A wise person once said, the man who makes no mistake, usually doesn't make anything worthwhile.
This particular set of threads, all the Omni threads, are what make communities like this work. We can voice opinions, state facts, help with commands to build a repository, compile a kernel, even agree to disagree.
This is how XDA started, while maybe some sections have stayed from the roots, Omni has brought it back full circle.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
jonathanxx1 said:
IMO unless your a spy or a criminal I don't see why someone would care about all that NSA stuff.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may want to skim through this: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842
Some laws (in many? all? countries) are so loosely worded that you're probably breaking some of them right now. Now remember that the government/google/facebook/whoever is watching everything you do. If you ever become "a problem" you're not going to be too difficult to "deal with". Just a potential look at one of the many problems with complete surveillance.
You guys talk about this as if Google, Facebook and all these companies willingly gave up this information.
But the reality is this: the government (NSA) asks for the data. If the companies deny them this, the NSA then goes to obtain a generalized warrant from the FISA courts, secret courts with a 99.7% warrant approval rate, and then obtain the data regardless of what these companies want.
And for those of you who STILL think it's the companies, read this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html
---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------
And yes, these companies DO own your data. As soon as you click "I accept these terms" on the registration page, they are now the owners of everything that goes through their online services.
But, here's the catch. Companies are individuals too, as established in Citizens United v. FCC, and are protected under the same rights as any other individual. And it logically follows that because of this, it is a breach on each company's 4th amendment rights for the NSA to obtain generalized warrants, that list NO goal for the investigation, and use these in order to force each company to fork over account details among other things.
frustration pure
one of the most common arguments of those who don't care or don't want to face the
risks of others knowing anything or almost everything of us is:
i have nothing to hide so what !
now to make a point i would like to come up with a very simple and for many
perhaps a bit strange example but i think most will understand what i mean.
ALBEIT I'M ALLOWED TO MAKE LOVE TO MY WIFE AND IT'S TOTALLY LEGAL
AND RIGHT, I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO LISTEN OR WATCH :laugh:
UNDERSTOOD ?
regards
+1
I've been lurking and decided to give my opinion. First though, let me give a little background. Two years ago I bought my first Nexus and I rooted it right away. I left the bootloader unlocked, the CWM recovery installed, and USB debugging left on. Any app that could log me in automatically I allowed...Ebay, Amazon, Gmail, etc. I thought I was doing a good job protecting my privacy by using a strong password lock and installing Lookout.
I had no idea how easy it was to gain access to all of my data. My ignorance would not have protected me. Now to today. I have a rooted phone, but the bootloader is locked with the stock recovery installed. I will install a custom rom when a good one is available, but the stock recovery will be re-flashed and the bootloader locked when I'm done. I still use Lookout. I'm using LastPass to manage unique strong passwords now...no more saving passwords. I'm waiting for ADB Toggle to be fixed for Kitkat and USB Debugging will be turned off when my phone plugs into a computer. I am constantly looking for ways to protect my data.
To have total convenience, you must give up privacy and security. To have total privacy and security, you must give up convenience. I know that google has access to EVERYTHING I do with my phone and am not happy about it. I try to be informed and balance convenience, privacy, and security.
:good: I second the suggestion that OmniROM should attempt to become the ROM for people who want to protect their privacy and security. :good: There is a lot that can be done at the operating system level that cannot be performed by individual apps. Sure, I love all the features that custom ROMs offer and look forward to see what can be done, but privacy and security are #1 for me.
If you agree, then +1 this post.
i guess this is a general subject, but fits in this forum because we're (nexus users) probably more affected than the rest of the android world. In short, i'm not liking Google's thirst for collecting info in order to sell us ads, tailor and filter information that gets to us, or even sell our info to other companies (android police had an article a while back about a company who was doing this). But let's go back in time a bit first...
My first android device was back in 2010, and i've been through a few htc and samsung devices, galaxy nexus, nexus 4 and of course nexus 5. Now, whoever had a galaxy nexus might remember how android was back then, ICS just came out, it was the first version that could actually compete with it's rival OS's, and the official builds on the galaxy nexus were very close to AOSP.
On the nexus 4 we started to see some changes, Chrome replaced AOSP's browser (Browser) even though it was still not ready for that role yet and despite it coming a long way to where it is now, IMO it's still not as good as the stock browser was. Google Play Music also replaced Music as the default music player and so on..
On the nexus 5 Hangouts replaced stock Messaging (in my opinion it also is not ready for that role yet) and last but not least we're witnessing how G+'s Photos is going to replace Gallery (which is simple and fast, works great, and has a mighty lil photo editor).
Let's add to that Photosphere, a feature exclusive to nexus devices, and the Google Experience launcher (exclusive to nexus 5). So we've reached quite a big divergence from AOSP.
Another thing is how Google is forcing it's social network, either through binding playstore/youtube comments with it, photos, G+ sign in, Game hub (Play Games) etc.. Basically, you have to have G+ to be able to do simple stuff.
Also, we all know that one of the reasons they killed microSD support was to get people to use their cloud services, Keep, Drive, GMusic, G+ autobackup photos...
Other than forcing it's services, Google likes to tailor things for us. A simple example is the Youtube app, it's default opening screen is "What to watch" instead of subscriptions.
Also, Google Now is a cool concept, and it can be very helpful, but it kind of adopts the concept of offering you the info (it thinks) you need, according to certain algorithms. And that's the way Google's search engine has been functioning for years. And it's not only a Google thing, everybody does it, facebook, yahoo etc..
If you've read this far, and this subject interests you, watch this TED talk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ofWFx525s
I've been thinking about this subject for a while, and honestly, i have mixed thoughts about it. I use Google's services and i actually like Google as a company -despite the lil rant above- but i try my best to control what info i share with them, and i'm definitely not liking the route Google is taking with android, causing fragmentation even between nexus devices, closing down a lot of open source services and forcing it's own, and tailoring stuff for me. I don't need someone to think or make decisions on behalf of me, i want to be able to decide what i want to see/read/know about/use. I also want android to stay as open sourced and available to everyone as it can be.
So what's your take on this subject? do you have any concerns about your privacy and the info you share with Google's servers? and how about the android -or should i say Google- experience on the N5 compared to AOSP or past experiences you had with previous nexus devices, do you see any difference?
Google uses your data to build out great services. They also get a lot of money for advertising, and that's just the way it is. Do you think they should give Maps and Gmail away for free to people without getting something in return? Everyone who buys a Nexus device or uses Google's services understands this. You said in your post that Google forces their services on us, but you aren't being forced to use a Nexus device, or use Maps and Gmail. You made that decision yourself, so I don't understand why you're complaining.
Oh no, Google can't do nothing bad. It's Apple's fault.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I don't really understand what you are getting at. If you don't like all of the Google services then why not install cyanogen mod? The sole purpose of a business is to make money for it shareholders and Google is a business. They provide amazing apps and services for "free". I put free in quotes because you are indirectly paying for it. No one is forcing you to use Google phones or Google services.
Edit* okay I do understand what you are getting at but I don't feel that Google is hiding it from its users. It's no secret that Google sells ads. That is their business. They can become a more successful business if they gather more information about its users. I am aware of what Google does when I use its services and I accept it because I use the services they provide and don't have to pull out my credit card.
It's not that hard to understand; why are we all flaming this dude? He was just asking for everyone's opinions.
I agree with you 100%. Especially as I initially made the switch from CM9 to CM10, I was really wary about Google Now. It seemed like it was collecting waaaayyyyy too much info. The G+ integration in Google Play and Youtube also ticked me off.
However, the more I think about it, Google is still being sensible. Google Now can't be compared to Siri because Siri can't do crap; Siri just takes what you say and searches it up. Google Now can be turned off, and if you don't want it always tracking your location, just turn off location and it'll turn off all the location-based cards.
I'm also intrigued (not concerned) by Google's recent actions, especially with the acquisition of Moto, the release of Moto X and Moto G, and the introduction of so many GPe devices. Perhaps Google feels threatened by Samsung and feels the need to tighten its grip? The Nexus/GPe community used to be solely dominated by Samsung, but now it's seen entrances by HTC, LG, Asus and Sony. It seems to me that everything Google has done in the past few months has been forced by Scamsung and Crapple, and that we shouldn't really feel concerned in any way...yet.
The whole world runs on information and EVERYONE is trying to collect as much as possible. You might as well let it benefit you. Imagine if you had to pay for an email client, gps, countless news subscriptions, data hosting, and on top of that, had to pay for every new software version as it was made available. Even paid services are focused primarily on learning as much about you as possible. At least they are trying to learn what interests you to offer you something you might actually want!
I for one am very sad to see Google's Android deviate so far from pure Android. I am not a fan of the Google Experience launcher and I miss the beautifully simple AOSP experience. Even when I do run stock android, I fill it up with Google services. I think the point here is that you should choose what you want... ESPECIALLY with a Nexus device. The Nexus has become too commercial with the N5.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
I dont want anyone selling my data. I do appreciate that I use many Google services for free so I'm happy for their bots to analyse my data to sell tailored advertising to support these services.
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rootSU said:
I dont want anyone selling my data. I do appreciate that I use many Google services for free so I'm happy for their bots to analyse my data to sell tailored advertising to support these services.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Long as i dont get junk in my email or mailing address, besides what do you got to hide huh? unless you're al qaeda right? or some terrorist..
Google doesn't sell your info to other people, and nor does it "read" your inbox or someone is "reading" it, it looks for certain keywords then deliver ads based on that... test it your self on your phone email your self with any subject and just make a random sentence containing the word viagra, you will now receive ads that have to do with "Male enhancement pills".. google does this to provide cheap devices such as the chromecast and nexus line they want you to buy it in return for your interests then deliver ads based on that then google gets paid by the advertiser or the marketing campain, so lets just call this instead of google stalking you or like mining your information like gold think of it as google trying to see what you're interested into and deliver that to you!
oh also inb4 someone says punctuation is your friend
I've always been very bugged about this that's why I try to download privacy apps to control what permissions they are asking for
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Google is just a modern day netzero (from back in the days). The sooner you realize that, the better you'll be able to set your expectations.
That being said everything you find worrisome, you can substitute with a different service. It's not being forced to you.
The reality is, you made a calculation that the benefits outweighs the costs. You just may not be conscious of it.
Lastly, the nexus line is pure Google, it's not pure asop. It's Google flavored android, just as htc one is htc flavored android.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------
nohcho said:
Oh no, Google can't do nothing bad. It's Apple's fault.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stawman
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
markdapimp said:
Long as i dont get junk in my email or mailing address, besides what do you got to hide huh? unless you're al qaeda right? or some terrorist..
Google doesn't sell your info to other people, and nor does it "read" your inbox or someone is "reading" it, it looks for certain keywords then deliver ads based on that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly my point. You seem to be arguing my point back to me, which makes no sense. Perhaps you misread my post
Nothing online belongs to you.. there are many ways to stay frosty on android.
Sent from my AOSP on HammerHead using Tapatalk
i guess some people didn't get my point, maybe since English is not my native language.
Anyways, as i mentioned in my previous post i do use Google services, and i'm grateful that most of them are free. But it's getting harder and harder to control your privacy. Look at the new location concept in kitkat, you can't switch location OFF completely from the power widget, you have to take additional steps and go into settings. Furthermore, on previous versions, you could use GPS, let's say for sport tracking apps, but deny location from all Google apps. Now you can't do it anymore, even if you use "device only" Google's apps (and facebook and others) are able to ask for your location.
Same goes to the Photos app, if you log in your G+ account, and choose photos from the slide menu, you'll see all your photos, even if they are still only on your device (autobackup OFF), something like the GMusic concept with on-device/cloud music. Honestly, i don't want my photos on G+, and i have a feeling i'll be forced soon to upload them whether i like it or not, just like the location thing.
Also i want to be able to choose what G services i want to use. AOSP still gives that freedom, but no one can deny that Google progressively is stopping to develop AOSP apps, and it's forcing it's own. I think some around here take stuff that Cyanogenmod or the Paranoid team (and others) do for granted. I think people should be thankful for things like 8Sms , Focal and so on, and recognize the effort put in them, and help (test/report bugs) and donate to those devs to encourage them to polish these apps and make them even better. Honestly, i think we were lucky to get to choose what sms client we want as default, if it was up to Google, we wouldn't have that option available.
And lastly, look at what happened to App Ops, it would've been a nice tool to give back control to the end users, but it was killed in the last update with a statement that it was never meant to go public. If they are afraid some people will misuse it and break app-functionality (then whine about it) , well they could've put it in Developer Options right beside ART and the rest of the stuff that can potentially break things on your device.
So as a conclusion, i do like and use Google services, but i also don't want to be forced to share my private data, i just want to be able to do it in the range that i'm comfortable with, and putting everything on Google's servers does not make me feel comfortable :good:
You're never forced to share your data... You don't even have to use your real name on an account!
Sheesh.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Cirkustanz said:
You're never forced to share your data... You don't even have to use your real name on an account!
Sheesh.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's cool, can I use your name when buying my next phone.... how about my Google store/wallet account, oh yeah and PayPal
makes you wonder why so many laws in the past prohibited such practises... they must of been real stooooopid!! haha
also if it was a bad thing lots of literature would have been written about it, warning us
meangreenie said:
That's cool, can I use your name when buying my next phone.... how about my Google store/wallet account, oh yeah and PayPal
makes you wonder why so many laws in the past prohibited such practises... they must of been real stooooopid!! haha
also if it was a bad thing lots of literature would have been written about it, warning us
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't be silly.
You can pay cash for an Android phone. You can even pay cash for a Nexus 5.
You have the option of paying for mobile purchases with your carrier account, and have you never heard of a pre-paid visa card? There are all kinds of ways to get one without providing any personally identifiable information of any kind. The point of google store purchases being an invasion of your personal information is also entirely moot as you can very easily use an Android phone without making a single purchase on the play store.
You don't even have to use wallet, in fact most Android users CANNOT even use wallet to its fullest since they don't have NFC in their phones.
For real now, if you think your personal data is so valuable and sacred, have fun not having a checking account, loan, a real job, or a real place to live.
You don't even have to have google services running on your phone. This is XDA...install a custom rom and just don't load gapps. Or be even more lazy about it and just disable those apps in settings and they don't run.
That's me being silly. See how that works?
Here's my theory on the issue...
The way I see it is that a person has three choices:
1. Go completely off-the-grid, paying (limited) bills in cash, never engaging with the internet, and forgoing many modern technological conveniences.
2. Allow some personal information here and there, trying to maintain control by engaging with services that can be discontinued when they "cross the line".
3. Allowing access to all personal information online, engaging with anything and everything.
The third is simply not an option for me. I have no desire to have for-profit corporations spamming me with offers for crap I don't want and selling my private, personally identifiable information to anyone and everyone.
The first is really not an option, either. I don't want to be completely cut off from friends or have contacting them be excessively difficult. It is convenient to pay my rent, utilities, and other bills online. Frankly, I'm not good enough with any type of work that allows one to go off the grid to make a living.
So, that leaves me with the second option. I monitor changes to privacy and terms of service policies for the services that I use. I try to limit the services that I use. Obviously, I have a bank account and that comes with the need to provide some information to the bank, but also the ability to monitor my money and immediately flag appropriate people if anything suspicious happens. I have a Google account and a Nexus 5, ergo I use Google's services. And here's what's important to me: I can delete my Google account any time I want. With something like Facebook, it was a lot more difficult to do that once I became uncomfortable with my of the changes Facebook was making. Also, with Google, I can opt-out of many of the services that make me uncomfortable, such as targeted advertising or using my +1's as endorsements. If that ever goes away, I will absolutely reconsider my position. I maintain multiple Google accounts, actually, as a means of limiting who can see what information about me. I have a personal account, which has the most information about me and which is as locked down vis-a-vis Google as I can make it, but which allows my friends and family the best means of interacting with me. I have a professional account, which has only information relevant to my work. I have an "partial-incognito" account, which does not have explicitly identifiable information about me. I have a few completely incognito accounts, which I only ever access through very restricted circumstances, like a proxy server, and have absolutely no information that could be tied back to me. Frankly, that's about the best I can do.
I have chosen to make a tradeoff, information for convenience. The line where I am willing / unwilling to make that tradeoff is a massive grey area and I constantly reevaluate it. Sure, it's annoying to have to stay on top of it, but it's a fact of modern life. As long as Google gives me the option to delete my account whenever I want, I give them the benefit of the doubt and continue providing (limited) information about myself in exchange for some extremely useful services (unfortunately, this isn't the same deal I can make with the NSA).
Lokitez said:
Here's my theory on the issue...
The way I see it is that a person has three choices:
1. Go completely off-the-grid, paying (limited) bills in cash, never engaging with the internet, and forgoing many modern technological conveniences.
2. Allow some personal information here and there, trying to maintain control by engaging with services that can be discontinued when they "cross the line".
3. Allowing access to all personal information online, engaging with anything and everything.
The third is simply not an option for me. I have no desire to have for-profit corporations spamming me with offers for crap I don't want and selling my private, personally identifiable information to anyone and everyone.
The first is really not an option, either. I don't want to be completely cut off from friends or have contacting them be excessively difficult. It is convenient to pay my rent, utilities, and other bills online. Frankly, I'm not good enough with any type of work that allows one to go off the grid to make a living.
So, that leaves me with the second option. I monitor changes to privacy and terms of service policies for the services that I use. I try to limit the services that I use. Obviously, I have a bank account and that comes with the need to provide some information to the bank, but also the ability to monitor my money and immediately flag appropriate people if anything suspicious happens. I have a Google account and a Nexus 5, ergo I use Google's services. And here's what's important to me: I can delete my Google account any time I want. With something like Facebook, it was a lot more difficult to do that once I became uncomfortable with my of the changes Facebook was making. Also, with Google, I can opt-out of many of the services that make me uncomfortable, such as targeted advertising or using my +1's as endorsements. If that ever goes away, I will absolutely reconsider my position. I maintain multiple Google accounts, actually, as a means of limiting who can see what information about me. I have a personal account, which has the most information about me and which is as locked down vis-a-vis Google as I can make it, but which allows my friends and family the best means of interacting with me. I have a professional account, which has only information relevant to my work. I have an "partial-incognito" account, which does not have explicitly identifiable information about me. I have a few completely incognito accounts, which I only ever access through very restricted circumstances, like a proxy server, and have absolutely no information that could be tied back to me. Frankly, that's about the best I can do.
I have chosen to make a tradeoff, information for convenience. The line where I am willing / unwilling to make that tradeoff is a massive grey area and I constantly reevaluate it. Sure, it's annoying to have to stay on top of it, but it's a fact of modern life. As long as Google gives me the option to delete my account whenever I want, I give them the benefit of the doubt and continue providing (limited) information about myself in exchange for some extremely useful services (unfortunately, this isn't the same deal I can make with the NSA).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the type of answer i was looking for, thank you for this :good:
i can recognize myself in most of the things you wrote, basically that's how i feel about it too. i hope we won't get to the part where we'll have to "reconsider our position", but all the closing down and limitations are an indication that we're heading that way (i hope i'm wrong).
I started this thread to hear what others think about this subject, and to see if maybe i'm being excessively paranoid
Cirkustanz said:
Don't be silly.
You can pay cash for an Android phone. You can even pay cash for a Nexus 5.
You have the option of paying for mobile purchases with your carrier account, and have you never heard of a pre-paid visa card? There are all kinds of ways to get one without providing any personally identifiable information of any kind. The point of google store purchases being an invasion of your personal information is also entirely moot as you can very easily use an Android phone without making a single purchase on the play store.
You don't even have to use wallet, in fact most Android users CANNOT even use wallet to its fullest since they don't have NFC in their phones.
For real now, if you think your personal data is so valuable and sacred, have fun not having a checking account, loan, a real job, or a real place to live.
You don't even have to have google services running on your phone. This is XDA...install a custom rom and just don't load gapps. Or be even more lazy about it and just disable those apps in settings and they don't run.
That's me being silly. See how that works?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well none of that was my point, but don't worry about it. your willing to give my and my children's freedom away.. no argument will ever be good enough for you to stop you doing that.
Personally i don't care what Google knows about me (i'm not that interesting and i got nothing to hide - heck let the NSA spy on me too. don't care). I love their services and don't see anything wrong with them using my info to make $$. They are providing me with a service that makes my life a lot easier/better. I also really like the consolidation of Google aps and services and the synergy it creates. Google may force you to use one service to access part of another, but they do not force you to use anything you choose not to. If you don't like G+ integration, don't use Google's suite. I'm not trying to flame the OP, but i just don't get the point of this post. If you don't like something the best way is the speak with your wallet. If enough people do that maybe Google will pay attention.
---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 PM ----------
rayiskon said:
That's the type of answer i was looking for, thank you for this :good:
i can recognize myself in most of the things you wrote, basically that's how i feel about it too. i hope we won't get to the part where we'll have to "reconsider our position", but all the closing down and limitations are an indication that we're heading that way (i hope i'm wrong).
I started this thread to hear what others think about this subject, and to see if maybe i'm being excessively paranoid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is why you started the thread? to hear opinions that validate your own? i thought it was to spark discussion?
Hi guys. I'm starting this thread in hopes of sparking a conversation and a concerted effort to rid ourselves as users from the clutches of Google and other big tech companies. I am sick and tired of Google tracking me and attempting to force feed me ads on a daily send constant basis. Then selling my info to other companies such as Facebook. So, I have started down the path of decluttering (De-Google-ing) my device(s). I am primarily interested in securing my device as much as possible and protecting my privacy.
So far, I have reformatted my entire device to factory default settings installed and using F-Droid (FOSS) for all my apps. I use Yandex as my search engine (I am often to suggestions and recommendations) in the "private browser" app. I use Aurora instead of Google Play store, New Pipe for YouTube-ing, Frost for Facebookingand SlimSocial for Twitter. I have stopped using Google keyboard and any other Google apps. I have abandoned gmail and replaced it with proton mail instead. So far, no ads and as far as I can tell, no tracking. I have also installed a VPN and am using it religiously—Cyber Ghost, a $99 for 3 years subscription with support up to 8 devices.
However, I am still very much connected to Samsung for I am not privy as to whether or not Samsung is as sinister as Google and Facebook.
Again, I am open to all suggestions, corrections and recommendations. Thank you and I hope to engage with you all.
leave it up to them yandex russians to protect your privacy.
but seriously. the most dangerous thing you can do is acctualy think that the steps you take are really making your life private.
vpns just channel the traffic to an other end point and does the queries for you then sends the data encrypted to you.
the queries are still made on the www. account info and all things you store or access online is still accessible by the www. vpn companies just fool you into thinking that the data being relayed to you is the only weak link. plus the free ones mine your data.
best thing you can do is not use social media. its made to invade your privacy. its designed to fool you into giving as much of your personal life info as possible and sell your habits to add companies so they can in turn send you quatered adds.
the minute you use the internet you void your privacy regardless of how you think the measures you take are working or effective. and what are you going to do about the 100 and 1000's of companies being hacked and their data mined and sold every month? you cant do anything about that. plus its much better for hackers to get their info from a big company because you get much more than just 1 dude that does his banking online and chat every now and then.there is no money to be made from 1 individual.
if you think people are specifically after you, you are gravely being fooled by the vpn ad campaigns that have been poping up everywhere about "privacy".( they must hide the fact that they also get hacked very well.its just that the media hasint picked up on it yet)
anyways who want to waste time on an end user/device?
when again you just need to hack equifax like a few years back and you get the motherload instead.
all in all I've abandoned the thought of real privacy. its futile.( even abstinents dosen't work because companies and governments don't secure customer data correctly. and unfortunately if you are born, you must be branded and labeled and filed away.)
live your life. just know that what ever you do you can't escape big brother and your data from being leaked by the big companies that say that it is secured with them.
the whole infrastructure relies on them companies and the habits we have been embraining ourselves and our children with is the problem.. we live our lives intertwined with the services and devices that we take for granted and have clicked next next next through polices and consent forms for over 25 years now whithout even giving it a second though. we're in over our heads now and it is a little late to back out. this was al dine by design and all voluntarily. its crazy how marketing is evil.
a cabin in the woods is the easiest and most secure thing one can do. anything shy of that is a waste of time and a false feeling of privacy.
anyways I'm going around in circles now.
one thing for sure is that the criminals we think that we need cover from are not who we think they are.
they are the FCC dealing with big telcos, they are the big media giants spewing false information and fabricates facts. they are in our governments in the highest ranks pushing hidden agendas and most of all they are the big social media platforms remodeling our society each day under our noses at our expense.
but hey this is not new. the internet police is just tring to make you think it is and spend 9.99$ a month for a vpn lol
good luck.
I just stopped using as many Google apps as I can and switched over to MS Office apps and use Samsung services where I can too...
bober10113 said:
leave it up to them yandex russians to protect your privacy.
but seriously. the most dangerous thing you can do is acctualy think that the steps you take are really making your life private.
vpns just channel the traffic to an other end point and does the queries for you then sends the data encrypted to you.
the queries are still made on the www. account info and all things you store or access online is still accessible by the www. vpn companies just fool you into thinking that the data being relayed to you is the only weak link. plus the free ones mine your data.
best thing you can do is not use social media. its made to invade your privacy. its designed to fool you into giving as much of your personal life info as possible and sell your habits to add companies so they can in turn send you quatered adds.
the minute you use the internet you void your privacy regardless of how you think the measures you take are working or effective. and what are you going to do about the 100 and 1000's of companies being hacked and their data mined and sold every month? you cant do anything about that. plus its much better for hackers to get their info from a big company because you get much more than just 1 dude that does his banking online and chat every now and then.there is no money to be made from 1 individual.
if you think people are specifically after you, you are gravely being fooled by the vpn ad campaigns that have been poping up everywhere about "privacy".( they must hide the fact that they also get hacked very well.its just that the media hasint picked up on it yet)
anyways who want to waste time on an end user/device?
when again you just need to hack equifax like a few years back and you get the motherload instead.
all in all I've abandoned the thought of real privacy. its futile.( even abstinents dosen't work because companies and governments don't secure customer data correctly. and unfortunately if you are born, you must be branded and labeled and filed away.)
live your life. just know that what ever you do you can't escape big brother and your data from being leaked by the big companies that say that it is secured with them.
the whole infrascturuce relies on them companies and the habits we have been embraining ourselves and our children with is the problem.. we live our lives intertwined with the services and devices that we take for granted and have clicked next next next through polices and consent forms for over 25 years now whithout even giving it a second though. we're in over our heads now and it is a little late to back out. this was al dine by design and all voluntarily. its crazy how marketing is evil.
a cabin in the woods is the easiest and most secure thing one can do. anything shy of that is a waste of time and a false feeling of privacy.
anyways I'm going around in circles now.
one thing for sure is that the criminals we think that we need cover from are not who we think they are.
they are the FCC dealing with big telcos, they are the big media giants spewing false information and fabricates facts. they are in our governments in the highest ranks pushing hidden agendas and most of all they are the big social media platforms remodeling our society each day under our noses at our expense.
but hey this is not new. the internet police is just tring to make you think it is and spend 9.99$ a month for a vpn lol
good luck.
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Click to collapse
Oy vey! Thank you very much for yor contribution. It is very much appreciated and I see what you are saying.
AndroidUser00110001 said:
I just stopped using as many Google apps as I can and switched over to MS Office apps and use Samsung services where I can too...
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Click to collapse
How has this been working out for you? What are your thoughts on Samsung's and Microsoft privacy policies etc?
Nonetheless, what are some good and viable alternatives to Google and optimally "securing" one's device (taking everything bober10113 has said).
michel5891 said:
How has this been working out for you? What are your thoughts on Samsung's and Microsoft privacy policies etc?
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Click to collapse
Like the other poster said, I gave up on worrying about privacy. I made the switch for other reasons and privacy was down on the list...
I just do not like what Goolge has been doing lately, especially blocking ad blockers soon in Chrome so I switched to MS Edge on Android and the Chromium version of Edge for desktop and the rest of the apps just followed through. I am seeing how the switch works for myself and if all goes well I will switch back to MS for the small company I work for.
I gave up on Gmail, Google Drive and all their office apps so far and I stopped using Nexus/Pixel phones for the first time in 10 years. I started with the S9+ which I enjoyed for a couple of months and then got a Note9 during a holiday special and now I cannot wait for the Note10.
Privacy is what it is nowadays... We should all own our data and if we choose to let be used as companies are doing now then we should get a slice of all the money being made but I doubt it will ever get to be something like that.
michel5891 said:
How has this been working out for you? What are your thoughts on Samsung's and Microsoft privacy policies etc?
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't think that they are any better than Google's. Majority of the companies out there that are international had to adhere to the EU rules of privacy, so a lot of them have adopted those standards. NOT ALL OF THEM. That's why all of a sudden you are getting new agreements from all the major companies that touch each section of land on the world.
I still don't trust any of them even to that point.
This is morbid. I have been thinking a lot more about death, debt, privacy and such, and I have come to the conclusion that I honestly don't care about my own anymore because it has been stolen, including my wife's. Future children though, I worry about them because you don't even have to mention their name on the internet and somehow every major company knows about them.
Ever had a conversation with someone without actually looking something up on the web, and then a day or two later Google and other ads start showing things concerning what you were talking about to someone in person? Yeah, it has happened to me numerous times now I can't even count anymore.
Jammol said:
Ever had a conversation with someone without actually looking something up on the web, and then a day or two later Google and other ads start showing things concerning what you were talking about to someone in person? Yeah, it has happened to me numerous times now I can't even count anymore.
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Click to collapse
YES!!! I noticed this a few months ago. My wife and I were talking about some random subject and BAM there it was in my Google discovery feed.
I mentioned that to her and she thought I was crazy until it happened again.
My friend was over last week, he mentioned something about a car he is fixing up and once again in my Google feed...
*EDIT*
I am not going to go as far as saying they are listening because my wife did say she looked up what we were talking about later on that day on her phone so I am guessing it is more GPS based then Google listening to give them the benefit of doubt for now. I need to ask my friend if he searched anything while here...
You want to De-Google your phone? Sell it and don't get an Android phone. Don't get an iPhone, either. In fact, get one of those huge car phones from the 80s. I can't add really anything that hasn't been said, other than some slight humor, but again, if you want privacy, stay off the internet.
AndroidUser00110001 said:
YES!!! I noticed this a few months ago. My wife and I were talking about some random subject and BAM there it was in my Google discovery feed.
I mentioned that to her and she thought I was crazy until it happened again.
My friend was over last week, he mentioned something about a car he is fixing up and once again in my Google feed...
*EDIT*
I am not going to go as far as saying they are listening because my wife did say she looked up what we were talking about later on that day on her phone so I am guessing it is more GPS based then Google listening to give them the benefit of doubt for now. I need to ask my friend if he searched anything while here...
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Click to collapse
This is what I'm trying to prevent. Exactly the same thing had happened to me. We were simply discussing an AC unit; never looked it up or mentioned the name of it and the exact make and model in the room we were in showed up.
michel5891 said:
This is what I'm trying to prevent. Exactly the same thing had happened to me. We were simply discussing an AC unit; never looked it up or mentioned the name of it and the exact make and model in the room we were in showed up.
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Click to collapse
Yeah it's super duper creepy. Funny thing is since I refreshed my Note 9 up to PIE, I haven't given assistant or google search any permission to use my microphone and I don't even have them setup!
this might help:
https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/6030020?co=GENIE.Platform=Android&hl=en
turn voice activity off. also check your history to see if it has any recording...