Database Develop

[Think Tank] Game Emulator Controller solutions Wii or otherwise

OK, granted I don't know much but maybe this thread can group peoples Ideas on a suitable controller for the captivate.
I know the WII Controller app currently doesn't work for us, but we do see that the controller hardware does offer the opportunity to pair with the phone over bluetooth.
I guess the first step is to successfully get the pairing, is this possible somehow? would a successful password hack make it happen?
I guess second would be to have it recognize buttons in a keyboard fashion to work with most emulators.
I know the developer of the existing wii controller app has said we probably get his app working, and I don't blame hime for not trying to get every phone to work, but i feel there is enough talent here to maybe get our own solution?
Or, if anyone actually has a better solution to the hope for an external controller, please help us all!

Wait the WII app does not work for us? I was about to hit BB :-(

Unfortunately the test app didn't work for me, and the developer has the captivate on the list of phones that currently are not compatible and most likely will not be compatible in the future with his software.

Ouch :-(
Not good news but better than me buying the wiimote for nothing.
I am assume is a matter of time before someone comes up with one anyway

Has anybody tried pairing a Playstation 3 controller with the phone? PS3 + HDMI via USB cable would make a great portable gaming console for when out of town at family, etc.
I'd definately contribute cash towards getting a working driver if needed.
EDIT: Also, MSI has a bluetooth gamepad that works with the phone. Google MSI BGP100. My biggest complaint/concern is that the controller doesn't seem to be designed to accommodate a phone in landscape mode, so that's a bit of a drawn back for playing games on the go (as opposed to hooking it up to a TV or monitor, where it wouldn't be an issue).

I actually emailed the dev about future compatibility for our phones, he said it's samsungs proprietary bluetooth drivers that are incompatible with the wiimote.
If we were to flash a vanilla android rom or something, it would work just fine.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
EDIT:
"Hello,
thank you for your question.
You're right about the frequency of these kind of requests. Newer Samsung phones unfortunately use proprietary bluetooth stacks (developed by Samsung) instead of the default that is in Android, named Bluez. That proprietary stack doesn't support the type of connection that wiimotes need to connect.
So, the only way currently for you to have this app working is if you get rid of that bluetooth stack. If you want to, you can root and flash your phone with a custom ROM. "Vanilla" ROMs have had success with other non-compatible phones in the past. Vanilla just means a type of ROM that is made from code that originates directly from Google, not from Samsung. One known creator of good quality vanilla ROM is cyanogen from xda-developers.com, but I don't believe his ROMs can run on the Galaxy (yet).
A friendly word of caution: rooting and flashing probably voids your phone's warranty and you also loose all the data (like contacts, app settings, etc) so MAKE BACKUPS before doing anything.
Best regards,
Piki"

This is awesome news. I am rooted and ready, and now patiently awaiting CM6 to get everything up and running! Thanks for the posts!

Amen brother
wakeupkeo said:
This is awesome news. I am rooted and ready, and now patiently awaiting CM6 to get everything up and running! Thanks for the posts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Ooohhh you guys see this?
Making a Nintendo SNES controller into bluetooth; using an MSI BGP100
If the MSI BGP100 works for us then I am going to do this!

wakeupkeo said:
This is awesome news. I am rooted and ready, and now patiently awaiting CM6 to get everything up and running! Thanks for the posts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please dont hold your breath, you'll be bluer than a smurf. There is nobody working on a CM6 version for the Captivate. Only the Vibrant.

wakeupkeo said:
Ooohhh you guys see this?
Making a Nintendo SNES controller into bluetooth; using an MSI BGP100
If the MSI BGP100 works for us then I am going to do this!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So has anybody confirmed if this works or not with the Captivate?
I'm thinking since the wiimote wont work via bluetooth, no bluetooth gamepad will work.

Has anyone ever tried interfacing a standard controller through the microUSB port? Or custom building such a device?

derek4484 said:
So has anybody confirmed if this works or not with the Captivate?
I'm thinking since the wiimote wont work via bluetooth, no bluetooth gamepad will work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on the drivers otherwise no bluetooth device will be able to connect...at least that is how I see it.

no that the psx emulator is out and resedent evil 3 works perfectly, i would like to see some kind of gamepad, sucks theres no way to use a controller.. , is there even anyone working on getting this done???

Just wondering if any updates have been made on any controllers working on the captivate? Still no WiiMote connectivity, havent tried to connect anything through the micro usb. If anybody knows of a way to control emulators for the Samsung Captivate, Let us all know!

Sublim3_Tilt said:
Just wondering if any updates have been made on any controllers working on the captivate? Still no WiiMote connectivity, havent tried to connect anything through the micro usb. If anybody knows of a way to control emulators for the Samsung Captivate, Let us all know!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1
Subscribed...

derek4484 said:
Please dont hold your breath, you'll be bluer than a smurf. There is nobody working on a CM6 version for the Captivate. Only the Vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vibrant roms work with a few known and easily fixed issues with button logic. there may be other issues i cant remember but it is doable. as long as the vibrant is getting attention it should be enough.

Actually, hold your breath...
The Cog Rom has been using the original bluez stack protocol needed, and I am hopeful of compatibility soon...
Nothing seems to work still yet for the wii controller apps yet, but I haven't tried again in the last couple versions.
At least it seems we are headed in the right direction!

wakeupkeo said:
Actually, hold your breath...
The Cog Rom has been using the original bluez stack protocol needed, and I am hopeful of compatibility soon...
Nothing seems to work still yet for the wii controller apps yet, but I haven't tried again in the last couple versions.
At least it seems we are headed in the right direction!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't be too sure about that since he removed bluez after version 5 saying it caused more trouble than it was worth. It would seem the only hope we have now is for gdanko's aosp froyo. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=815420&page=18

Indeed it seems aosp is a gamer's only hope for our beloved captivate... we need the non samsung proprietary Bluetooth stack.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

[DEV] PSFreedom on Vibrant & other Galaxy S Phones

PSFreedom is a Linux driver to exploit the PS3 to allow homebrew and/or game backups on the PS3.
This has been ported already to HTC Bravo (Desire), Google Nexus One, HTC Dream (G1) / HTC Sapphire (Magic) 32B & HTC Sapphire (Magic) 32A as well as non-android devices, such as the Nokia N900 and the Palm Pre.
What this does is allow you to run an exploit on the phone/device. When you plug the device into the PS3 port and start the PS3 by pressing the power button (and the eject button quickly) it will start up and allow you to install and run homebrew on the PS3. It also allows you to install a game manager to backup your discs to the internal harddrive or external usb devices.
The port of PSFreedom to the Vibrant and other Galaxy S phones is in development.
For more info on porting progress:
http://psfreedom.com/wiki/index.php?title=Device_compatibility_list
"Piracy is bad, m'kay?"

Nice. Also we have all share witch I hook to a ps3 all the time. Taking it one step closer is promising....
Sent from my vibrant

Awesome
I look forward to giving this a shot.

I have PSFreedom running on my old G1 right now and I backed up a PS3 game to test it. Now we just need to wait for a Vibrant (Galaxy S) port.. as well as some cool homebrew!

Definitely can't wait for this..
Lovellkid

and they already patched it....gg Sony

Modding is typically a game of cat and mouse.
PS3 System Update v3.41 is still modifiable. They just released a new "security update" but it is adviced that if you want to run homebrew on your PS3, that you do not install Sonys' quick security update.
Do not update until PSFreedom devs have time to 'fix' v3.42
---
Personal note: I was ok with the PS3 because it had the option to Install OtherOS (Linux) when I bought it, then Sony removed one of the features OtherOS) that I purchased the system for. So, getting the option to install homebrew and perhaps another OS again, is worth it to me. I will probably back up my few games too.. but I really don't play games anyways.

I just read that the 3.42 firmware update may patch the exploit that PSfreedom uses. You may want to hold off on upgrading your PS3 if possible if you want to eventually use PSfreedom.

Breach said:
I have PSFreedom running on my old G1 right now and I backed up a PS3 game to test it. Now we just need to wait for a Vibrant (Galaxy S) port.. as well as some cool homebrew!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here.
And as for the 3.42 update, it can be bypassed with the correct fake DNS
Go into your PS3's Network settings
Set the DNS nameservers to Custom/Manual
Change both of them to: 67.202.81.137
Done
But the next update to PSFreedom apparently will work on "any firmware" according to the devs working on it. We shall wait and see.

I see a cfw in the near future
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

no matter the outcome, the PS3 has been the greatest anti-modding/hacking consumer device ever created.
Lets just hope Sony never starts making popular Android phones

hydrogenman said:
no matter the outcome, the PS3 has been the greatest anti-modding/hacking consumer device ever created.
Lets just hope Sony never starts making popular Android phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the psp phone they are working on is going to be android based.

hydrogenman said:
no matter the outcome, the PS3 has been the greatest anti-modding/hacking consumer device ever created.
Lets just hope Sony never starts making popular Android phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol what does that have to do with anything.
Sent from a Samsung Vibrant.

xalucardx said:
I see a cfw in the near future
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that would be nice, i wouldnt have to leave my g1 plugged up to the ps3 and i can have my xbmc remote back

What happened with the site its down.
Do I see sony's black hand there?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

add a wiki subdomain to psfreedom[dot]com
Glad to see this being worked on since a vibrant is all I have that I can do this with.

So I just got myself a Vibrant ... Dose anybody know if there is any news on the development of this?

Been waiting for some updates myself. I'm at the point that I'm shopping ebay for a used g1 so I'll have something to experiment flashing roms on as well as a possible backup phone

im selling my g1 on ebay...CHEAP!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260673329884&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Phromik said:
Same here.
And as for the 3.42 update, it can be bypassed with the correct fake DNS
Go into your PS3's Network settings
Set the DNS nameservers to Custom/Manual
Change both of them to: 67.202.81.137
Done
But the next update to PSFreedom apparently will work on "any firmware" according to the devs working on it. We shall wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already update to 3.42 by mistake, any way to go down?

Jrioni Aracde Full - MAME emulator on Android

This is the only MAME emulator I've found that supports the classic games. It emulates a GP2X game console which supports .34/.35b roms only. It doesn't seem to recognize the newer roms.
I can only find it by using the links on this page or scanning the QR Code with my phone.
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-jrioni-jarcade-qCqA.aspx
I had to use my phone and scan the QR Code with the Barcode Scanner App to open the page in the MarketPlace. If anyone could provide a link, it would be great as the GTab doesn't have the resolution to scan the QR Code as well as being a PITA with only one camera.
UPDATE: Tried to use my phone to blowup the QR Code to scan it as the link wasn't working for the GTab for some reason. Got it to scan with Barcode Scanner, but it linked to the same page in the Marketplace. It didn't make a difference though. It seems there is still something missing from the Marketplace implementation on the GTab and this is after the last Marketplace hack involving changing the build.prop. Sideloading after downloading from a device that can use this like appears to be the only way to go to load this for now.
TigerMAME, which is found easily on Android Marketplace only supports Neo Geo/CPS1/CPS2 games.
Once purchased and installed, you need to wait for him to send you a code to unlock and activate the emulator. It took more than 24 hours, so be patient.
I was able to convert some roms to work with this using his instructions on his blog:
http://jrioni-arcade.blogspot.com/2009/09/howto-rom.html
Playing with WiiMote Keyboard works. You will need to UNCheck the WM Sideways option in the keyboard settings for the WiiMoteIME Settings. The emulator assumes you're turning it sideways. The Wiimote is difficult to play MAME with, looks like it's time to buy a Classic Controller Pro!

I wish it played the full set supported by GP2X, but it only works with about one third of the roms GP2X supports. I went through them all, since have full set for my Dingoo and PSP and used the app with G1, Droid and Incredible (probably one of the first people that bought his app in 2009).
Jioroni messed up, since this app and the PC Engine would have doen well, were it not for his code validation process. His efforts to prevent piracy actually has hurt him more than selling through the market straight.

Yeah I was a little put off by the piracy precautions as well. It's scary when you have only 24 hours to return it and it takes almost 2 days to get a code. I did reprocess the roms as he had outlined in his blog post and a lot of them were able to play successfully. I have some issues maybe you might know how to solve like the galaga missing ship exploding sound or sounds in donkey Kong. I know in the PC version there was a sample directory to address this is there something like this?
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk

dkhilo said:
Yeah I was a little put off by the piracy precautions as well. It's scary when you have only 24 hours to return it and it takes almost 2 days to get a code. I did reprocess the roms as he had outlined in his blog post and a lot of them were able to play successfully. I have some issues maybe you might know how to solve like the galaga missing ship exploding sound or sounds in donkey Kong. I know in the PC version there was a sample directory to address this is there something like this?
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All common issues with MAME .34 & .35. Still young app back then.

This project appears abandoned. No activity on the blog since 2009, and though Jarcade shows up in the market, if I try to buy it, I get a server error.
Are there any emulators that play the early Mame games from the eighties?

I was actually surprised that mame doesn't exist for android. I want to play old-school 80's games and I think most would be perfect for android devices.

sark666 said:
I was actually surprised that mame doesn't exist for android. I want to play old-school 80's games and I think most would be perfect for android devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps it's beause while the code is available, it cannot be used commerically, so no monetay gain for the wouldbe developer. I installed the Android sdk + all the other required software, just to get a feel for what would be involved in porting mame. The NDK might provide some help using the existing C code, rather than converting everything to java, but at this point I'm still learning how to import existing java code into my test projects.
The other problem as I see it, is that Mame runs with the command line or a frontend. I may be able to get some code for a java frontend, but adding it to the project and connecting it is beyond my current limited abilities.
There's also the source code MAMEUI, which has a GUI. Written for windows tho

Yes it wouldn't have a monetary gain, but that hasn't stopped people previously from porting mame to everything under the sun. The one device I thought would have it for sure, doesn't.
And yes a front-end would be an issue and add development time, and so would an a control overlay. Someone needs to standardize some game development tools one thing being virtual controls so other game developers who need on screen controls can just place say an 8 way controller and two buttons. But that's another matter.
Well, I hope mame gets ported one day but if it hasn't already I don't think it's just around the corner.

sark666 said:
And yes a front-end would be an issue and add development time, and so would an a control overlay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been going through the Android SDK tutorials / layouts section and believe that creating a frontend may be the easiest part. Haven't yet learned how to pass values to from the Java frontend to the native C code, but I'm sure it's very possible.
The initial release of this theoretical MAME port could be without a control overlay. The user could use the navigation keys on their Android device if available, or something external like a wiimote.
Another thought is that perhaps MAME could be compiled for Android and launched via the command line in the Terminal emulator.
sark666 said:
Well, I hope mame gets ported one day but if it hasn't already I don't think it's just around the corner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've started a blog to document my efforts in bringing Mame to Android, and will be devoting most of my free time to this cause over the next few weeks. I'm sure it's just a matter of making the right connections in the dev tools.

Bro if u need a tester im here,we need a decent mame for droid,im glad sumone finally took the raines and u decide to make this happen,if u need any help with finding info pm me and ill do my best to help.....mame.......ftw!!!!!
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Ubuntu on p990

After looking around on other devices and prevoiusly owning a htc touch pro 2 and porting ubutnu on it, I have decided that this summer (I finish uni in 3 weeks) I would try putting it on the p990. At first i was going to do it by vnc however i saw this yesterday
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1045910
Considering the superior specs of our device and the possibilty of hdmi out
Is anyone else interested in trying to make this possible? If so I thought I would get the thread going, the more people developing the better

I have been requesting this myself, so if this is made possible, I'd be a very happy man!

i would be very happy to help you in any way.
it was my dream to run a full linux on this phone (either meego or fedora).
i'm a heavy linux-user, but a noobie when it comes to android.

+1 On this. Does anyone know if there are people working on this?

instead of going for Native boot,why not try to run it in chroot first?I am trying to get it to run on a chroot envoirnment using VNC first..but till now no success.
Edit:Got it to work on the chroot envoirnment..If any one is interested then let me know i will post the instructions

If there really is usb host mode on this device (dont know why it shouldn't be), then running it natively could be really cool, even be of some good use to people. It's a pretty powerful device so. Drivers will get kind of hard to get though, especially for the gpu, or am I wrong? chroot isn't really that useful, so natively is the way to go. If only I knew more about this, I would help, but one thing, the bootsequence is already done for the DHD, so that part atleast shouldn't require much work to get working on this phone?
Edit: And if we get ubuntu running, there shouldn't be that hard to get a working meego on there either, whenever that's finished ofc.

manasgirdhar said:
instead of going for Native boot,why not try to run it in chroot first?I am trying to get it to run on a chroot envoirnment using VNC first..but till now no success.
Edit:Got it to work on the chroot envoirnment..If any one is interested then let me know i will post the instructions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you post the instruction ?
thank you very much.

pastime1971 said:
can you post the instruction ?
thank you very much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can do better than that..lemme get the script in order then i will post it in a new thread

That can be cool, but we need to know more info about the o2x before :
O2x support USB-HOST ?
If not, can linux support O2x bluetooth stack ?
What about audio ? the only phone that get supported by ubuntu dont have sound support.
The Toshiba Folio 100, a NVidia Tegra 2 device, support ubuntu, anyway to use it on O2x and not start from beginning ?
There is an interested developers ?

I have found the sulotion : you must follow this guide
http://androlinux .com/android-ubuntu- development/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-android/
So dowload the ''ubuntu.zip'' but when you unzip the file replace all ''loop1" by ''loop5'' in bootubuntu file. That all
I'M NOT RESPONSIVE IF YOU BREAK YOUR PHONE !!!

Haven't had much time to look into this yet with being end of year at uni but this might be very useful to us.
http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/TEGRA2/Notes

Canocial Making Ubuntu Based Webtop Competitor

For those of you who are mad the Droid 3 doesn't have Webtop, Canonical is making a competitor and I imagine the Droid 3 will be able to run it. It meets the specs, not sure about USB host but everything else. I imagine you could use bluetooth for keyboard/mouse as well. I wonder if it will be possible to get something like this working on the Droid 3.
-Dual-core 1GHz CPU
-Video acceleration: shared kernel driver with associated X driver; Open GL, ES/EGL
-Storage: 2GB for OS disk image
-HDMI: video out with secondary frame buffer device
-USB host mode
-512 MB RAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't just running Ubuntu on your phone's hardware, its access to your Android apps through the regular Ubuntu UI. Looks exciting, read more:
http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android

Okay that sounds insanely cool!

MrObvious said:
Okay that sounds insanely cool!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for stating the MrObvious
Obviously its HYPER COOL !!

Cant wait. Hope it works out!!! I was thinking of getting an Atrix because i love webtop
Sent from my XT860

HYPER COOL indeed
This was cool as well. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1415166
Worked perfectly for me ik not the same thing but if your bored and like ubuntu id recommend trying it.

There is a video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUXUjjg9qQ0
First thing I noticed is the demo is running on a blur'd Atrix 2 which means no custom kernel or ROM is needed.
At this point it looks like there is a pretty good chance the Droid 3, Bionic, Razr, etc will be able to run this.

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
Sent from my XT860 using xda premium

It's gonna be sweeeeeeeet.
Ditto on the shut up and take my money.

Silber said Ubuntu for Android would be released under an open source license, but that Canonical expects it to mostly be pre-installed on specific hardware.
"We'll want to optimise for certain hardware profiles and chips," she said. "It simply wouldn't be the same experience on a downloaded install."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/373024/canonical-puts-ubuntu-on-android-smartphones
So it will be open source and not OEM only. I was thinking it would be open source since its Ubuntu but you can never be sure.
As far as optimizing it for hardware, hopefully the fact that the phone they demoed it on has the same exact OMAP/PowerVR SoC that is on the Droid 3 means the source will be most optimized for that hardware. In the demo it looked like a nearly finished project.

spunker88 said:
There is a video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUXUjjg9qQ0
First thing I noticed is the demo is running on a blur'd Atrix 2 which means no custom kernel or ROM is needed.
At this point it looks like there is a pretty good chance the Droid 3, Bionic, Razr, etc will be able to run this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Video is down, You guys think it could mean something?

SeiferTV said:
Video is down, You guys think it could mean something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was a private video (only those with link can view). It had several phone #s not blurred out in the video so chances are it was meant to be shared internally only.

I found a new link to the video:
http://youtu.be/3pZUCKt0RKc
Edit: On a second thought, if it contains not blurred information, should I edit out the link?

Say this does come to pass and it's possible to load it up on the D3. Which dock can you use? The only ones I can find don't allow a USB connection.

spivey76 said:
Say this does come to pass and it's possible to load it up on the D3. Which dock can you use? The only ones I can find don't allow a USB connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm hoping it would be possible to get it working with just HDMI output and no dock. I don't know if the Droid 3 supports USB OTG host mode, but it does allow bluetooth keyboards and mice simultaneously so hopefully that would be an option.
The Droid 3 works with the lapdock/webtop hardware wise according to this youtube video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OclL-KISYWI

double post - see below

They also said it would come preinstalled on some phones, because it needs some optimization to run smoothly. Read that on The Verge
Still, pretty cool thing! Hope someone port that to the D3 (and consequently the M3 too =P)
Rocking with my M3 and XDA app
Hash's ICS Alpha 7 + Camera Fix

spunker88 said:
I'm hoping it would be possible to get it working with just HDMI output and no dock. I don't know if the Droid 3 supports USB OTG host mode, but it does allow bluetooth keyboards and mice simultaneously so hopefully that would be an option.
The Droid 3 works with the lapdock/webtop hardware wise according to this youtube video below.
cantpostlinksyet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That looks promising, although in the comments someone stated he might have modded it. The OP didn't reply so who knows.
I hadn't even considered bluetooth peripherals, but they work just as well.

AragornPE said:
They also said it would come preinstalled on some phones, because it needs some optimization to run smoothly. Read that on The Verge
Still, pretty cool thing! Hope someone port that to the D3 (and consequently the M3 too =P)
Rocking with my M3 and XDA app
Hash's ICS Alpha 7 + Camera Fix
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm hoping that they release the source which has already been optimized for the demo phone, the Atrix 2 since it has the same OMAP4430 that the Droid 3 and a lot of other devices have.

New video, sounds like it won't be a easy task to custom install it ( for people with handsets that don't have it stock-installed ) : ( ( although, "In Devs We Trust" )

SeiferTV said:
New video, sounds like it won't be a easy task to custom install it ( for people with handsets that don't have it stock-installed ) : ( ( although, "In Devs We Trust" )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He made it sound somewhat like Android source is, it will be available but the average user can't just install it on a device and expect it to work. Hopefully the devs here can make it work. The biggest limitation for us is going to be only 512MB of RAM, besides for that the demo phone has the same hardware as the Droid 3. It may not be a multitasking device, but I imagine things could be done on the Linux side to cut memory usage, possibly even switching to a lighter Ubuntu forked distro. It would still be useful as is for simple web browsing, a real office suite (LibreOffice), a real media player (VLC), etc.