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This getting a bit ridiculous, thie thread titled "How to pick a new ROM and Radio?" may have been redundant but it got some very good replies, stuff that I have over looked that i could use on my Kaiser like the Google gps and the Skyfire browser software , two pieces of info that I have missed seeing on this forum, to whick I have tried all because someone asked a basic question .
There is a lot very very good info that is here, but sometimes they are often buried long before a lot of users get to see them..
So why not allow some of them to continue and NOT edited out the info that is given in them
So what that a question has been asked many times over, this is the general forum for the device.... and is look at by a lot of new users.
Or how about just creating a newbie threads where it is allowed to ask often repeat question..... I think you were abit to quick in posting you fancy threaded closed picture...
and if you look at a some of the Rom threads here, some are very long 200 to 400 replies with very redundant answers like Oh what grweat looking rom, or I can not wait to try it...with alot of pat on the back answers....compared to the thread I spoke about which had some great info it till someone removed the info...
F2504x4 said:
This getting a bit ridiculous, thie thread titled "How to pick a new ROM and Radio?" may have been redundant but it got some very good replies, stuff that I have over looked that i could use on my Kaiser like the Google gps and the Skyfire browser software , two pieces of info that I have missed seeing on this forum, to whick I have tried all because someone asked a basic question .
There is a lot very very good info that is here, but sometimes they are often buried long before a lot of users get to see them..
So why not allow some of them to continue and NOT edited out the info that is given in them
So what that a question has been asked many times over, this is the general forum for the device.... and is look at by a lot of new users.
Or how about just creating a newbie threads where it is allowed to ask often repeat question..... I think you were abit to quick in posting you fancy threaded closed picture...
and if you look at a some of the Rom threads here, some are very long 200 to 400 replies with very redundant answers like Oh what grweat looking rom, or I can not wait to try it...with alot of pat on the back answers....compared to the thread I spoke about which had some great info it till someone removed the info...
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Simple answer:
Because this is a developers forum, the rules are clear (though i doubt any of the offenders actually read them) that you should READ (which few do), SEARCH (which even fewer do) and post in an EXISTING thread (if only). Why should we change the rules of the forum just because nobody bothers to read them?
FWIW, mocking a mod will not get you anywhere...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=377
First off I was not mocking you just the picture used , it is kinda over board
IMO
Second off most sites that have stickies or read firsts or what ever they are called are ignored, very common problem and one that will never go away...sorry but that is true, i deal with the same issue on a couple of sites i admin...
As to the threads, that is what a general forum is for....Place to ask questions, that is also how a site grows as new members post and ask questions...even if its the same one over and over again.. Newbies do learn as they get more info.
I try to be as helpful to newbies as possible as I learn more and more,and share what i have learned , that is my way of giving back to a site,
and the same thing happens as the newcomer understands how and where to find the info that they are looking for, I just replied to a couple more. without putting them down btw, I just steered them to where they can find the info.... but at the same time , like I said before I learned something just by a often asked question getting some good replies , what is wrong with that ?
Why not let some of these threads run there course for a few days then lock them while leaving the info in them ? its a win win scenario, it will help cut down on these threads at the same time continuing to help the newcomers learn about there devices and this site..
The plus side to this is more money a site will make by the amount of traffic it gets from threads that are created....and also the possibility of them clicking the ads.. just a thought...
F2504x4 said:
First off I was not mocking you just the picture used , it is kinda over board
IMO
Second off most sites that have stickies or read firsts or what ever they are called are ignored, very common problem and one that will never go away...sorry but that is true, i deal with the same issue on a couple of sites i admin...
As to the threads, that is what a general forum is for....Place to ask questions, that is also how a site grows as new members post and ask questions...even if its the same one over and over again.. Newbies do learn as they get more info.
I try to be as helpful to newbies as possible as I learn more and more,and share what i have learned , that is my way of giving back to a site,
and the same thing happens as the newcomer understands how and where to find the info that they are looking for, I just replied to a couple more. without putting them down btw, I just steered them to where they can find the info.... but at the same time , like I said before I learned something just by a often asked question getting some good replies , what is wrong with that ?
Why not let some of these threads run there course for a few days then lock them while leaving the info in them ? its a win win scenario, it will help cut down on these threads at the same time continuing to help the newcomers learn about there devices and this site..
The plus side to this is more money a site will make by the amount of traffic it gets from threads that are created....and also the possibility of them clicking the ads.. just a thought...
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I will concede to you that the idea of a new member thread where they can ask anything and everything as many times as they want without fear of being flamed is somewhat appealing. I think maybe if it could be stickied at the top so that it's always easy to find would be helpful too. Maybe, just maybe that could possibly cut down on the dozens of redundant threads started every single day.
Well now, i tend to respond to all redundant threads so that it will be easier when some1 searches for it. I.E. finding 10 redundant threads that have the same answer is a lot better then having 10 redundant threads where most of them are just flaming the person for not searching.
But closing a "clutter" thread is probably for the best. Its still accessible by search, and prevents the clutter thread to expand to something stupid. (I.E. 2 pages worth of people posting pics with babies getting fed)
scotchua said:
I will concede to you that the idea of a new member thread where they can ask anything and everything as many times as they want without fear of being flamed is somewhat appealing. I think maybe if it could be stickied at the top so that it's always easy to find would be helpful too. Maybe, just maybe that could possibly cut down on the dozens of redundant threads started every single day.
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Thanks,
you should stop by pirate4x4 , they deal with new jeep owners with with same old same questions by having a flame free zone ie: "Jeep - Non Hardcore"
Flame free Jeep talk about the basics. it helps with keeping them out of the high tech areas..where they will get blasted
Now i know that we cannot have a forum for each device but a thread where there questions can be asked would be great if you and the other mods are willing to test it out.... or maybe a sub forum with-in the Kaiser general forum so that you guys can move these kinds of questions to ?(shrugs shoulders).
i will as well as others will try to help out the best we can..
ekw, good point...
I just think it is better try and help out the newguys in a nice way at first, those with less then 30 or so posts and new join dates....after which they should pick up on how the site works....granted I am still a newb just because of the amount of info on this site and it is a bit hard to try a find it right a way
What's "Cluter" ?
californiarailroader said:
What's "Cluter" ?
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I'm not sure. But If I see It I might have to Close it down.
To the OP:
I appreciate your thoughts and opinions, but the rules here were created for a reason, and they are enforced for a reason.
Believe me there was solid, almost scientific reasons behind the rules created.
The Kasier Forum has come after a long line of Forums, different techniques have been used to control the forums and our way is the way we will continue.
Thanks for your concern but, I don't see it changing anytime soon.
JimmyMcGee said:
I'm not sure. But If I see It I might have to Close it down.
To the OP:
I appreciate your thoughts and opinions, but the rules here were created for a reason, and they are enforced for a reason.
Believe me there was solid, almost scientific reasons behind the rules created.
The Kasier Forum has come after a long line of Forums, different techniques have been used to control the forums and our way is the way we will continue.
Thanks for your concern but, I don't see it changing anytime soon.
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Well from my stand point and others that i have read that have similar thoughts , its not working...new threads are still being created and the same old questions are being asked.... so the battle rages on......job security for the staff
so flaming is okay...but redundant questions are not hmmm
"scientific reasons" , that sounds just like the engineers that that i have worked with that have the same results,to which we will kick the plans/designs back to them and then go head make the real world changes that do work....
But engineers and scientist's pretty much think alike(very difficult to get them to think outside the box) unless you find one that has mechanic's hands, then you keep him close at hand....
(sorry I am not trying to be sarcastic in this response ) <---just stating a view point..
You only see it with mods cleaning it up. You think its out of hand now. It would be more out of hand is if we weren't here.
We work hard behind the curtain trying to make this place enjoyable and readable to everyone. Even with the threats on our person and families, even with the bad attitudes, even with people thinking their way is better. But the mods push on.
Why? Because we want this place to be informative and enjoyable to everyone.
Side Note: I say that, not because I'm searching for thanks and gratitude towards me and the other mods. Just wanting to shed a little light as to why us mods do what we do. Because, like you members, we love tweaking our phones.
And to answer your question. No Flaming is NOT tolerated, but us mods can't be everywhere. You can always Report a trouble thread to us. Just click the "
{
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" to report a thread.
i'm a relatively new member of these forums and i would tend to agree with the mods...
the rules ARE crystal clear...the search DOES work...and when the mods say there are scientific reasons behind the rules, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the reasons
the flame free zone sounds like a nice idea but i fear it will just spoil the members (old and new alike) in a way that everyone can potentially end up posting and MAYBE getting answers in the flame free zone whereas most of their queries will DEFINITELY be answered MOST of the time from the wiki and by searching the existing threads
with personalized threads about already covered issues that seem to crave member-specific attention, the forum becomes less of a forum and more of a consultancy service...
being a new member myself, i don't think i have had to start any of my own threads so far...i was really really tempted to do so, especially with regards to which radio is good for me here in pakistan...but just by searching and reading a couple of threads, i quickly got a very good idea of the variables, constraints, and considerations involved in selecting a radio rom and why everyone says "try out every radio until you find a keeper"...
just my 2 cents...
ASCIIker said:
i'm a relatively new member of these forums and i would tend to agree with the mods...
the rules ARE crystal clear...the search DOES work...and when the mods say there are scientific reasons behind the rules, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the reasons
the flame free zone sounds like a nice idea but i fear it will just spoil the members (old and new alike) in a way that everyone can potentially end up posting and MAYBE getting answers in the flame free zone whereas most of their queries will DEFINITELY be answered MOST of the time from the wiki and by searching the existing threads
with personalized threads about already covered issues that seem to crave member-specific attention, the forum becomes less of a forum and more of a consultancy service...
being a new member myself, i don't think i have had to start any of my own threads so far...i was really really tempted to do so, especially with regards to which radio is good for me here in pakistan...but just by searching and reading a couple of threads, i quickly got a very good idea of the variables, constraints, and considerations involved in selecting a radio rom and why everyone says "try out every radio until you find a keeper"...
just my 2 cents...
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Before I was a mod, I had 1,400 posts and 0 created threads. So it can be done.
scotchua said:
Simple answer:
Because this is a developers forum, the rules are clear (though i doubt any of the offenders actually read them) that you should READ (which few do), SEARCH (which even fewer do) and post in an EXISTING thread (if only). Why should we change the rules of the forum just because nobody bothers to read them?
FWIW, mocking a mod will not get you anywhere...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=377
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With all due respect to the mods, whom I really do admire for their knowledge, dedication to the site and especially their patience. Props to NATF, P1 and Jimmie especially, I have a problem with the anonymous closing of threads.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=448207
While I applaud your closing of useless threads and this one was particularly offensive ( I am sure Leo and Dutty and sakajati spend hrs, days and months writing and developing new roms just so that they can be subjectively reviewed by noobs and the uninformed.) , I do think that it is equally troubling to have mods closing threads without an explanation or taking responsibilty. I think this undermines the faith we all have in this site ( to be unbiased and agenda free ) and the faith we have in the mods to administer this site in a way that people feel free to express opinions and exchange thoughts and ideas,unencumbered by personal biases and agendas
The previous thread and many others were closed for obvious reasons, with no explanation really needed, but it may not always be that way. So I think it is important that we know who, and get an explanation no matter how cursory , when a thread is closed.
Just my 2 cents, thanks for listening
JimmyMcGee said:
Believe me there was solid, almost scientific reasons behind the rules created.
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In all honesty, and I'm NOT trying to be "smart" here, could you share a little? If there's a really compelling reason that I'm just missing, I'd be more than happy to keep my trap shut!
I completely understand the idea of trying to keep clutter down and trying not to waste time and bandwidth on flame wars. Nothing wrong with that.
I just think that the lack of any sort of sanctioned ROM comparison information makes it very difficult for beginners to understand the forums. And, honestly, I think it results in more "How I pick ROMs?!" threads than you'd see otherwise. And more work for the mods. And more hurt feelings from newbs, who still have the same question but don't really understand the answer.
It's much easier to tell an offender "Hey, use THIS thread" than it is to tell them, "You can't ask that question," because the latter statement is only going to lead to them asking, "Wait...why?"
I'm all for deleting clutter, but I can't help but feel that some of those "clutter" threads are symptoms of a lack of information about what different ROMs are for.
And, hey, as I mentioned in another thread, I think having a flame-filled, bilious "ROM discussion" thread might be worthwhile if only so mods can point to it as a shining example of why those threads are verboten.
typo said:
In all honesty, and I'm NOT trying to be "smart" here, could you share a little? If there's a really compelling reason that I'm just missing, I'd be more than happy to keep my trap shut!
I completely understand the idea of trying to keep clutter down and trying not to waste time and bandwidth on flame wars. Nothing wrong with that.
I just think that the lack of any sort of sanctioned ROM comparison information makes it very difficult for beginners to understand the forums. And, honestly, I think it results in more "How I pick ROMs?!" threads than you'd see otherwise. And more work for the mods. And more hurt feelings from newbs, who still have the same question but don't really understand the answer.
It's much easier to tell an offender "Hey, use THIS thread" than it is to tell them, "You can't ask that question," because the latter statement is only going to lead to them asking, "Wait...why?"
I'm all for deleting clutter, but I can't help but feel that some of those "clutter" threads are symptoms of a lack of information about what different ROMs are for.
And, hey, as I mentioned in another thread, I think having a flame-filled, bilious "ROM discussion" thread might be worthwhile if only so mods can point to it as a shining example of why those threads are verboten.
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I totally understand what you are saying. And Regardless of what ever the Community does, you will have people who refuse to read "READ ME FIRST" or "READ HERE BEFORE POSTING" or "THIS IS THE THREAD WITH THE INFORMATION WE WANT" These are the people who post the "clutter" threads. And when I close a thread I call attention to my signature, if applicable, and the Kaiser Section Guidelines.
Hopefully this leads to people seeing why I closed their thread and alleviates any heard feelings.
I understand the desire to have a detailed explanation for why we close each thread, but to be completely honest, that is not feasible. Most of the threads which are closed are simply a case of people not searching and reading, and as such i suggest they search and read. Think about the amount of time you spend on here each day, then imagine if you had to spend 90% of it reading reported posts, discussing the correct course of action for each situation, closing threads, explaining your decisions to the people who caused the problem in the first place because they didn't read the guidelines in the first place.
Every moderator here is simply trying to do the best they can to keep this place cleaned up with the dozens of redundant threads posted in each forum every day, and the spam, the users fighting, etc. Plus we are trying to actually enjoy using the site some ourselves, and fix our own problems on our devices. This requires us to actually do some research, reading, and troubleshooting ourselves.
In conclusion, i recommend everyone read the link "What is XDA-Developers all about" before they post anything else. This explains why there is such a fundamental divide between so many of the new users and those who have been around her for awhile. This is a developers site, and not a tech support site. You will find many users, including myself, more than willing to help you, but that is not what the forum is for. As i said in my PM reply to Typo, I will be discussing the idea of a single thread to discuss why different people like certain roms. The major issue with that right now is that the members of this forum typically cannot discuss issues like that without it devolving into fighting. We would love to be able to allow postitive and useful discusssion about roms, and remember, MOST of the time, the problem has NOTHING to do with the moderators, and everything to do with people not reading the rules, or not respecting others.
denco7 said:
With all due respect to the mods, whom I really do admire for their knowledge, dedication to the site and especially their patience. Props to NATF, P1 and Jimmie especially, I have a problem with the anonymous closing of threads.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=448207
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Just wanted to point out that my post you quoted was written 2 months before i became a moderator, and that i have always held that opinion, even back in January when i was a 1 post noob who moderators were telling to not post stuff in the wrong place.
I am sorry you disagree with Jimmy's decision to close the thread, but if you do, that should be handled by PM first before dragging it out into an open discussion. Also, i'm not sure why you find it "offensive" that he would close a thread he found unnecessary. We try to be as fair as possible, and are usually pretty objective. If you feel we made an error in judgement, please, as i said contact us via PM. We really are here to help.
scotchua said:
Just wanted to point out that my post you quoted was written 2 months before i became a moderator, and that i have always held that opinion, even back in January when i was a 1 post noob who moderators were telling to not post stuff in the wrong place.
I am sorry you disagree with Jimmy's decision to close the thread, but if you do, that should be handled by PM first before dragging it out into an open discussion. Also, i'm not sure why you find it "offensive" that he would close a thread he found unnecessary. We try to be as fair as possible, and are usually pretty objective. If you feel we made an error in judgement, please, as i said contact us via PM. We really are here to help.
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I am sorry that you did not read my post more closely. I did not disagree with Jimmy's decision to close the thread , I supported it . If you re-read my post , it was the thread that I found offensive and totally agreed it should have been closed, so there was no need to handle it in private. The problem I had was with the anonymous closing of the thread. I feel that anonymous administering of any site, undermines the integrity of the site. Jimmy usually closes the posts with a cursory " redundant " or "against forum posting rules " or " unproductive discussion ".
And for the other reasons I mentioned in my post , I thought that , it was important to be very visible in your closing of threads. Believe me the last thing I want to see is "reviewing" of peoples hard work that they so generously choose to share with the rest of us
I did not know that Jimmy closed the thread, it was just done. Much like the " anonymous administration " , I thought it was important to discuss my thoughts in the open so as not to lead anyone to believe that it was personal.
I have been very pleased with the direction that the forum has taken since you ,Dave, Jimmy, P1, and NATF were appointed mods ,very pleased.
Oh , and I'm sorry if you thought my post was based on your quote, I kind of just pulled your quote out of a hat as a means of restarting " the closing of clutter threads" thread.
denco7 said:
I am sorry that you did not read my post more closely. I did not disagree with Jimmy's decision to close the thread , I supported it . If you re-read my post , it was the thread that I found offensive and totally agreed it should have been closed, so there was no need to handle it in private.
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you are right, i misunderstood you. my apologies. i understand what you are getting at now.
my 2 cents.
Unfortunately not everyone is a developer (like myself) but i am here and have been (hopefully) supplying helpful advice to everyone i respond to, i have a few times responded with the simple answer of "SEARCH!!!" but also i like to but not always like to leave them 2 or 3 links to things i simply searched relating to their problem, just to prove search does work.
Luckily i havent had any urgent, burning questions to where i needed to start a new thread (i dont think) and now am trying to teach myself how to develop software for my mobile (and yours).
So i agree with both sides redundant posts suck, but an anti flame noobs post here thread would be nice. If a question/amswer is good enough move it to the wiki or the main forum. if it's not it stays in the newb forum, also redundant threads could be thrown over there without worries.
-Mike
LOL,
this 'hidden disagreement' is really entertaining!
There is one thing members tend to forget:
This site belongs to the 'makers' of XDA DEVELOPERS. Those guys came up with house rules and general guidlines to keep it the place it was from the beginning: a nice site where you can mod your device, get a different ROM or develop your own. In addition the XDA Makers even added sections where you can get FREE HELP / SUPPORT and other useful information.
All of us 'non-mod's', 'non-Chefs' and 'non-admins' - no matter if JUNIOR or SENIOR member - we are not more but guests! We agreed to the forum rules when we first signed up. This is not our own forum, we are simply members. If the existing structure can't satisfy our needs, well, there are other forums we can join next to this one or we even can set up our own little discussion world somewhere!
Please keep in mind what this place was made for! Also keep in mind that we are nothing but guests on here. As guests we shouldn't complain about the dinner we get!
Even though I can understand that some people have a need to get it 'their way'; I do appreciate the strong and clean line XDA Developers keeps by closing or removing threads! (Yes, it happened to me too that threads were closed or removed! )
Please, guys! Keep smiling! This kind of threads start annoying me more and more - they have not much to do with the KAISER but are still posted in the KAISER section! Again another thread which won't provide helpful information in case someone is searching in the KAISER BOARDS ... !
The TownHall Meeting has been officially started. Here are the rules of engagement:
Ok, enough joking for now. Here are the true rules of engagement:
1. Posts that are flaming or flame bait are to be deleted, no questions asked.
2. Language to be edited on sight....
3. No banning, No infractions.
4. Moderators will act only as a mediator, so we will not be taking sides with anyone.
Welcome everyone
@everyone,
Please respect the rules above and I can guarantee you that by the end of the day, we will have a much happier and friendlier atmosphere in this place.
Summary of action items
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.
I think the problems in the Development forums stem from a general misconception of what it means to be a "developer" and how one earns that title. Often I will hear people flame people like Team Whiskey or Master as mere "re-skinners", because the main(not all) thing that is in their changelog is mere aesthetic changes. I think the mods should post clearly that anything that involves changing the rom should be considered a type of development, even if only graphical development. This would dissolve any type of hate towards people that reskin or release graphical modifications to already existing roms.(IMHO)
Ok, since we are off to a slow start, there are a few topics that I would like to address today. The biggest one, in my book anyways, is forum conduct.
We have had numerous complains coming from the Vibrant fora from newcomers (n00bs) complaining that they cannot even dare ask anything due to fear of being flamed to smithereens. Anyone care to elaborate on this?
lralexl said:
I think the problems in the Development forums stem from a general misconception of what it means to be a "developer" and how one earns that title. Often I will hear people flame people like Team Whiskey or Master as mere "re-skinners", because the main(not all) thing that is in their changelog is mere aesthetic changes. I think the mods should post clearly that anything that involves changing the rom should be considered a type of development, even if only graphical development. This would dissolve any type of hate towards people that reskin or release graphical modifications to already existing roms.(IMHO)
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Thanks for starting things off...
So, what you are saying is that a lot of the flaming occurs due to skinners being deemed as kangers. Am I getting this right?
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
lralexl said:
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
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Fair enough, let me bring forth the rule that addresses this issue "Using the work of others"
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
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In essence skinning is ok so as long as the member seeks permission from the original dev. It looks like the biggest problem is either a misunderstanding about this rule or lack of knowledge about its existence by both accusing party and "guilty/innocent" party. As a general rule of thumb, if you are making a rom that is based on someone else's work:
* Ask for permission
* Give credit where its due
Simple as that.
Interesting point...
From my experience on hero, people tend to post a theme pack for a ROM. For example, a few regular users port the same few themes into each new ROM I make, and release an add-on patch for it.
They don't go and release it as a separate ROM, but if they did, I have no doubt they would ask me about it first, and I would say sure, but with the caveat that we don't want it to happen too often... What would people think if we had one ROM that is tweaked theme-wise a few times and re-posted as separate ROMs?
There's no "right" answer, but provided people ask the original developers, and give credit per rule 12, then there is no issue with the rules there, so users would be allowed to.
Whether or not it is a "ROM" is up to individual perspectives then.
egzthunder1 said:
Fair enough, let me bring forth the rule that addresses this issue "Using the work of others"
In essence skinning is ok so as long as the member seeks permission from the original dev.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't even think its a permission issue really. I've just seen in a few threads people calling a skinner a developer, and then you'll have a flamefest erupt of people saying that skinning or winzipping isn't developing. I think this leads everyone more away from the truth that it's all contributions to the community and should be treated as such.
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
lralexl said:
I don't even think its a permission issue really. I've just seen in a few threads people calling a skinner a developer, and then you'll have a flamefest erupt of people saying that skinning or winzipping isn't developing. I think this leads everyone more away from the truth that it's all contributions to the community and should be treated as such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I think that we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. Conceptions of what people's role is should not be grounds for calling someone out or flaming them. The whole thing actually gets simpler from this point on.
One (implied) rule of thumb is that if the "dev" in question cannot support their release, you are more than likely dealing with a themer or a "zip wizard" and as such, you are probably better off trying to find the source of the rom and apply the theme/fix as a separate add-on.
Keslynn said:
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be a bit of added work, but the Rom review thread is not a bad idea. Just keep it clean from clutter and you have a very good tool to prevent new threads of "What is the best rom?" kind from erupting... I like that!
When it comes from flaming, some people will just put out flame bait for the hell of it. What I need, or at least I would like to see, is for everyone to stick to code of conduct and either ignore it, report it, or else, just not add to the fire.
First, we do recognize that we have a problem. We know this because 1) developers are leaving and forming their own sites because they don't like some of the things going on here. And 2) newer people are afraid to post here. Instead, they go to other forums and ask questions and state that they are afraid to post here. Both of these are big problems for the health of the site.
So, we look at the root causes. Most of them stem from 1) a lack of courtesy or 2) a lack of proper conduct. But I think the problems start with:
1. The Samsung Vibrant's stock software is not up to par due to some poor performing components, such as the GPS.
2. Samsung and T-Mobile have failed to communicate with their community.
3. Many people have come to sites like XDA for help.
What this means is that we have a lot of people in the Development forum who really aren't developers. But, they are here because they want help making their Vibrants perform better. That's not an excuse. I'm just saying that we probably have a lot of people in the Developer section who probably should be in QA or General section.
I think we would do well to:
1. Create a NooB forum, or emphasize the General forum as the place to be.
2. Post all new released ROMs in its own forum (not General, but "ROMS" or "Releases") That way people can go there for ROMS and for SUPPORT.
3. I would hope that this would enable the development forum to get back to being one were developers (or people who are interested in developing) could hang out.
Lastly, there are just some people who are like to cause trouble or are overly sensitive. I'm not sure what to do with them. But if they can't play nice, probably the first thing is to "parent" them and see if they can play nice. If that doesn't work, then it is time for a "timeout", or a temporary or permanent ban.
Lastly, while I appreciate the TownHall meeting, let's not lose site of the good things happening here. I would say that the majority of people are following the rules and making meaningful contributions. But if just 10% of the people do bad things, it colors the entire community.
The Vibrant subforums have seemed to be more Wild West than anything. I feel there should be a better mod presence. Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how difficult it is to do all the moderating, especially given how much of it is behind the scenes, but I feel that there is still some regulation lacking. We need to see more people get warned within threads that get out of hand, and frankly, some banning might get the message across that XDA is going to stop taking this crap from people. This board has gotten ridiculous w/ the flaming and incessant bs. Moderation can only go so much, since it's really up to the posting base to change their ways and be more respectful towards one another in order to truly make a long-term difference, but in the short-term we need some better, more aggresive moderation since changing peoples' posting habits will not be a quick thing to happen.
Proud to be a noob
I think there does seem to be a general consensus around us "noobs" about our failure to use the "search" function in a thread that has over 600 + pages of posts. God knows I would love to just flash a ROM and read basic information or FAQ's from the developer (the one individual who SHOULD know more about their own product than anyone) if I have questions, but when you have over 200 posts about how much others love/hate the ROM/developer or personal rants or recommendations/requests for the ROM they have had no part in developing, it does make it difficult to filter out the answer to the force close issue I am experiencing (for example). Then the flame wars begin! How DARE I ask that question since it was answered previously 42 pages back with a link to another developers thread, posted on page 418 of their 700 page manifesto...you get the hint. Finding basic answers to questions is challenging at best, and most newcomers end up getting ridiculed to the point of not wanting to have any further part, or end up flaming right back. Newsflash : just because you have flashed every possible combination of ROM/kernel/modem, does in no way make you an expert. Leave that to the people that make the ROM. Replies should be streamlined to relevant information allowed only, or force a PM if you want to discuss something irrelevant or bash a newcomer if it makes you feel better.
Keslynn said:
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was think about that the other day...that's a good idea and that way the develoment forum will be kept clean.
lralexl said:
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you able to comment on the personal issues or are you simply surmising?
Thanks
WB
egzthunder1 said:
Ok, I think that we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. Conceptions of what people's role is should not be grounds for calling someone out or flaming them. The whole thing actually gets simpler from this point on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To expand on this point, I've noticed people flaming over pretty much any definition. Someone posts that they're disappointed by GPS performance or screen burn in, and they get an argument over what constitutes a "feature" of the phone and told that their concern is not important. People forget that what might not be important to them may be a dealbreaker for someone else.
egzthunder1 said:
Ok, since we are off to a slow start, there are a few topics that I would like to address today. The biggest one, in my book anyways, is forum conduct.
We have had numerous complains coming from the Vibrant fora from newcomers (n00bs) complaining that they cannot even dare ask anything due to fear of being flamed to smithereens. Anyone care to elaborate on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since that's where I spend most of my time I can say for certain that this is true. I think there's a lot of younger kids in the vibrant forum who like picking fights and just generally being less than friendly. It seems like the answer to most questions asked is go search for it yourself. The information is readily available most of the time if theyd just look, but there's no reason to be rude about it.
With that said, I think since the thanks button has been added its made for a better atmosphere--so far. Definitely a welcome addition that will hopefully keep things civil.
Thinking of posting a new thread???
Use the search button on the top bar between "New Posts" and "Quick Links"
Threads posted in the wrong fora will be moved initially; however, for repeat offenders, the moderating team will look to take action to rectify the situation in a manner it believes is appropriate
WITHOUT FURTHER NOTICE.
It is the responsibility of all users to keep the fora organised and clean. We need you to do your bit to keep things orderly.
To the dedicated members that care to keep this forum, subforums included, clean and organized and grouped.
Please start reporting threads to the mods to take action. Please use the REPORT button to do so.
Thank You and happy easy searching .
Where to post things:
General - general technical discussion items, news, anything else that does not fit into the other fora categories.
Q&A (Questions and Answers) - all questions, irrespective of type, get posted in here whether they be theme related, accessory related, technical, etc.
Accessories - any items to do with components and/or accessories relating to your device.
Rom Development - only meant for very advanced technical discussion directly related to ROM development activity and the delivery of actual ROMs and ROM components ONLY. Nothing else goes in here.
Themes & Apps - anything to do directly with the development of themes and/or applications. Nothing else goes in here.
BEFORE POSTING ANY THREAD IN THE DEVELOPMENT SECTION, PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING:
If you have developed a ROM, or are working with others to do so, the development forum is somewhere to discuss and share ideas, post useful feedback and logs or crash dumps, and to discuss a common goal developers are trying to achieve.
It is NOT the place to post your question because it gets higher traffic, or because more experienced users frequent it. Doing this just annoys those who are working on the device, and drives them away. Developers don't want to wade through 20 threads of "Help me urgently" to find their threads for porting and fixing camera issues etc. Similarly, if a thread is designated as discussion for developers say, porting a camera fix, please do not post in there asking "When will it be ready?", "Can I flash this yet?" etc. This is both completely disrespectful to those working on the project (you evidently haven't read the important posts in the thread), and also is making it harder for developers to find comments from other developers or testers when required.
Similarly, don't make loads of "Thanks for your work here" posts in an active development thread. It's just as annoying to developers as asking when something will be ready. If a ROM is complete, then go ahead and thank the developer if you wish, but don't go into threads for devs only, and interrupt it to post "thanks". It's basically spamming, and is treated as such.
If you are posting in development, you should have read every sticky and notice there, and should be actively developing or helping in the development of something. Developing isn't installing a ROM, or using a tweak, it's creating a ROM or other hack or tweak. If you haven't read for several days before starting out on XDA, you are likely about to ask something already solved. I registered on XDA when I first wanted to post, and that was to join in a discussion on something. Sure, join up and ask a question, but read the information available in General and Q&A first, as your question will have been asked before. Search is your friend here, become familiar with it.
Regarding when to post in development if you are not actually developing something, there is one occasion where it's acceptable. If you find a leak of a new ROM, which isn't already posted, and you verify it's legitimacy via either running it, or based on the source you obtained it from, then this is assisting in development, and should be posted in development. If you want to ask when a leak will be available use search first, then if not already in discussion, open a thread in general or Q&A.
If you have a problem flashing a ROM, this is NOT related to development. It's up to you to determine if it is specific to a particular ROM, and post useful information in that developer's existing thread for the ROM. If it happens on more than one ROM, and isn't a known issue (remember you should read several times more words than you post), then find out what you are doing wrong. Check guides written by others, try to repeat the problem and see if it happens every time. Something needs to be reproducible to be fixed effectively.
Once you have identified what you need help with go to the device Q&A forum (general if device lacks one), and make a clear, informative thread that explains the issue, and what you have tried doing to fix it. Did you re-download the ROM? Did you ask a friend to flash it for you, to reduce chance of user error? What steps (exactly) did you follow? What errors did you see (exact wording)? Did you double check all the steps? Did you do a wipe or hard reset?
If you make a clear, concise, yet detailed post, you will find help forthcoming, and should get the problem sorted very quickly. If someone suggests you try something, report back on what happened, did it work etc. Then, next time someone has this issue and searches, they will find this and have a verified and tested solution.
So remember... before you start a thread in development, ask yourself what you are developing. If you can't answer, then stop, step away from the post button, and think about where you are posting. Would it be better in General or Q&A, or is some more time with your best friend, search, required?
Hi, I'm looking for a rom that can help me to save my battery. I'm using Existenz 3.3.0 on my Sony xperia SP but I'm realizing that device autonomy (battery range) is very low. I find the Purexperice Sirius that seems more performing about battery. what is your opionion about it? What do you think the best rom with the best range? I forgot to tell you that I've loocked bootloader so the rom must be compatible for it. Sorry for my bad english and thank you.
CM11 or slimkat are very good.
ROMs and they way the perform are user based opinion. You can not ask us what the best ROM is. Since you will get diffrent answers.
The best solution is a backup and try it yourself
mrjraider said:
ROMs and they way the perform are user based opinion. You can not ask us what the best ROM is. Since you will get diffrent answers.
The best solution is a backup and try it yourself
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course our opinion is important, but I appeal to people of this forum who have tried various rom to direct me to the best rom with best battery usage about the global statistics. I I formulated the question in a wrong way. :laugh:
To be 100% honest
These kind of threads are not really wanted here on XDA
It is not written in the Rules but it is logical that you try out before you ask any opinion
santi8912 said:
Hi, I'm looking for a rom that can help me to save my battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, and welcome to the forum,
Before you click the "New Thread" or "Post Reply" buttons, please take the time to read some rules/guidelines for posting in this forum:
1) Read and follow the Forum Rules:
Plain and simple. No further explanation needed
2) Post your message in the proper subforum (see above):
All questions, requests, and help & troubleshooting needs, go in the Q&A Help & Troubleshooting subforum, if one exists for your device, and any misplaced messages will be promptly moved to their respective location. Users that make it a habit of posting in the wrong forum will be addressed accordingly. If you're unsure of where your post or thread belongs, please read the Forum Rules again.
3) No off-topic discussion:
While some Moderation Teams may allow some off-topic discussion and the creation of off-topic threads, we do not. There is an entire General Off-Topic forum devoted to this type of discussion and there are enough threads already available to meet anyone's off-topic needs. All off-topic threads, and posts containing off-topic discussion, will be deleted promptly and without warning. If you're concerned with the amount of off-topic discussion and misplaced questions in the Development forums, please consider making a Q&A Thread for your ROM/Kernel/Project/etc.
4) No threads or posts asking for the best/most stable ROM/Kernel/Mod/whatever, or created for the purpose of comparing Phones/ROMs/Kernels/Mods/whatever:
These threads/posts will be deleted promptly and without warning. They have a history of causing problems due to trolls, and fanboys, along with various troublemakers, and therefore are no longer allowed. Regardless of that, there is really no way to judge whether or not a particular piece of work is better than another because it's all relative to begin with. If you want to know what piece of work is better for you, install something and try it out for a while. If you don't like it, try something else. Our Developers work hard to provide us their contributions, free of charge. Please show them the respect they deserve by trying something out and giving them your feedback.
5) Don't ask for an ETA (Estimated Time of Arrival):
Asking for an ETA is the XDA equivalent of telling a Developer that the free work they do just isn't enough for you. It usually comes across as rude and/or demanding, and most developers will take offense to it. Even if a particular Developer doesn't mind being asked for an ETA, there are many that do, and there's a good possibility that it will incite arguments in the forum. In the end, it's just best to avoid doing it altogether. If you have no other choice but to ask for an ETA (i.e. the work you're doing absolutely depends on it), then please, do it through a private message and keep it out of the public forums.
6) Keep your signatures at a respectable size:
While members are given a great deal of freedom in creating personalized signatures, it is expected that this freedom is not abused. Abnormally large signatures are obnoxious to most users and they tend to be a major distraction from the topic at hand. If your signature is double the size of an average post or larger, expect be asked to change it. If you're not sure whether the size of your signature is within the respectable limits, feel free to contact a member of the Moderation Team that is assigned to this forum for clarification.
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It's not that hard. If you can't say something nice to someone, don't say anything at all. If you feel the need to respond negatively to someone, please refer to #8.
8) Report all violations of the aforementioned rules/guidelines and DO NOT respond to them in the open forum:
If you happen to notice a rule violation, use the "Report Post" button in the upper right hand corner of the offending post, or send them a polite reminder through private message so they may resolve the problem on their own (for minor violations of course). Please do not respond to posts that are in violation of the rules in public. Regardless of the fact that it leaves more work for us to do when cleaning the forum, responding to them in public only compounds the issue and it puts you at risk of getting in trouble yourself. Moderators have much more effective ways of dealing with these situations than by arguing back and forth and disrupting the entire conversation, so please, let us handle it.
If there are any questions or concerns regarding this or any other matter, please feel free to contact a member of the Moderation Team that is assigned to this forum. You can find a list of the assigned Moderators at the top of each sub-forum page.
With that, here are a few great threads to help you get the most out of your experience here...please take advantage of them:
Get the most out of XDA!!
How to make a good THREAD, POST, QUESTION or POLL
Why you get short/one word answers! (The Long Answer)
How to give constructive feedback to developers
How To Logcat
GPLv2 tips for developers
Getting a moderator's help
And as always...
Thank you, and have a great day!
Code:
Thread closed
I have been looking for a rom for this phone i can't stand this 4.4.2 stock bell , and am looking for a great working rom that dosnt have this sony overlay
please help
This is not the right topic to post a question ! -__-
Send from my XZ With My Own Personal Modified MoonWalker SuperB !
Agree with the above. All ROMs featured here are the result of painstaking porting, testing and development by the dev, his team and an equally faithful band of testers. All this effort comes for free, without remuneration or salary, as these guys do it as a hobby/interest, in their spare time. Posing such a question is an insult to each and every one of them. All ROMs are equally good, excelling in certain fields and attributes. It would be better to ask "Which ROM suits me best and fits my usage/requirements?". And that, can be best answered by you only. So read each ROMs thread, check out the features and feedbacks on each ROM, and select the ones you want to try. After using your shortlisted ROMs, fnd which fits your bill as a daily driver and use it. Then tell us all about it instead of asking such foolish questions, and that too in the Development Section.
Dead Cookies leave no trails...
Cookie Ninja said:
Agree with the above. All ROMs featured here are the result of painstaking porting, testing and development by the dev, his team and an equally faithful band of testers. All this effort comes for free, without remuneration or salary, as these guys do it as a hobby/interest, in their spare time. Posing such a question is an insult to each and every one of them. All ROMs are equally good, excelling in certain fields and attributes. It would be better to ask "Which ROM suits me best and fits my usage/requirements?". And that, can be best answered by you only. So read each ROMs thread, check out the features and feedbacks on each ROM, and select the ones you want to try. After using your shortlisted ROMs, fnd which fits your bill as a daily driver and use it. Then tell us all about it instead of asking such foolish questions, and that too in the Development Section.
Dead Cookies leave no trails...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No words to say brother. U touch my heart....
Rajeev said:
No words to say brother. U touch my heart....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks guys , I'm just looking for a ROM that's easy ROM or wish I could use a Pure Stock Version of Android. But unfortunately this phone C6616 can't run a pure vanilla android.
Thanks I'll check out some of the Roms out so far.
#CEO Mr.PC Repair
use nova launcher and other aosp apps.
Settings menu is just themed a little but its pretty close to stock.
Use gem or gravity box for aosp lock screen
Hello, and welcome to the forum,
Before you click the "New Thread" or "Post Reply" buttons, please take the time to read some rules/guidelines for posting in this forum:
1) Read and follow the Forum Rules:
Plain and simple. No further explanation needed
2) Post your message in the proper subforum (see above):
All questions, requests, and help & troubleshooting needs, go in the Q&A Help & Troubleshooting subforum, if one exists for your device, and any misplaced messages will be promptly moved to their respective location. Users that make it a habit of posting in the wrong forum will be addressed accordingly. If you're unsure of where your post or thread belongs, please read the Forum Rules again.
3) No off-topic discussion:
While some Moderation Teams may allow some off-topic discussion and the creation of off-topic threads, we do not. There is an entire General Off-Topic forum devoted to this type of discussion and there are enough threads already available to meet anyone's off-topic needs. All off-topic threads, and posts containing off-topic discussion, will be deleted promptly and without warning. If you're concerned with the amount of off-topic discussion and misplaced questions in the Development forums, please consider making a Q&A Thread for your ROM/Kernel/Project/etc.
4) No threads or posts asking for the best/most stable ROM/Kernel/Mod/whatever, or created for the purpose of comparing Phones/ROMs/Kernels/Mods/whatever:
These threads/posts will be deleted promptly and without warning. They have a history of causing problems due to trolls, and fanboys, along with various troublemakers, and therefore are no longer allowed. Regardless of that, there is really no way to judge whether or not a particular piece of work is better than another because it's all relative to begin with. If you want to know what piece of work is better for you, install something and try it out for a while. If you don't like it, try something else. Our Developers work hard to provide us their contributions, free of charge. Please show them the respect they deserve by trying something out and giving them your feedback.
5) Don't ask for an ETA (Estimated Time of Arrival):
Asking for an ETA is the XDA equivalent of telling a Developer that the free work they do just isn't enough for you. It usually comes across as rude and/or demanding, and most developers will take offense to it. Even if a particular Developer doesn't mind being asked for an ETA, there are many that do, and there's a good possibility that it will incite arguments in the forum. In the end, it's just best to avoid doing it altogether. If you have no other choice but to ask for an ETA (i.e. the work you're doing absolutely depends on it), then please, do it through a private message and keep it out of the public forums.
6) Keep your signatures at a respectable size:
While members are given a great deal of freedom in creating personalized signatures, it is expected that this freedom is not abused. Abnormally large signatures are obnoxious to most users and they tend to be a major distraction from the topic at hand. If your signature is double the size of an average post or larger, expect be asked to change it. If you're not sure whether the size of your signature is within the respectable limits, feel free to contact a member of the Moderation Team that is assigned to this forum for clarification.
7) Be nice:
It's not that hard. If you can't say something nice to someone, don't say anything at all. If you feel the need to respond negatively to someone, please refer to #8.
8) Report all violations of the aforementioned rules/guidelines and DO NOT respond to them in the open forum:
If you happen to notice a rule violation, use the "Report Post" button in the upper right hand corner of the offending post, or send them a polite reminder through private message so they may resolve the problem on their own (for minor violations of course). Please do not respond to posts that are in violation of the rules in public. Regardless of the fact that it leaves more work for us to do when cleaning the forum, responding to them in public only compounds the issue and it puts you at risk of getting in trouble yourself. Moderators have much more effective ways of dealing with these situations than by arguing back and forth and disrupting the entire conversation, so please, let us handle it.
If there are any questions or concerns regarding this or any other matter, please feel free to contact a member of the Moderation Team that is assigned to this forum. You can find a list of the assigned Moderators at the top of each sub-forum page.
With that, here are a few great threads to help you get the most out of your experience here...please take advantage of them:
Get the most out of XDA!!
How to make a good THREAD, POST, QUESTION or POLL
Why you get short/one word answers! (The Long Answer)
How to give constructive feedback to developers
How To Logcat
GPLv2 tips for developers
Getting a moderator's help
And as always...
Thank you, and have a great day!
Thread moved & closed