Database Develop

The Black Files...

I have been going back and forth for a bit on wether or not to post this thread, but I think it is only fair for us testers and to post our thoughts and concerns. Mods, I apologize for posting a political thread in a technical forum, but this seems to be an applicable and thread worthy discussion So here it goes:
If anyone other than me (and the 5 trillion noobs on this site) have been following the 'black revolution', does anything seem funny about this whole situation with JJ leaving? First, he goes to htc-devs claiming that he refuses to deal with all of the stupid questions and double posts. This is understandable, and I would not be posting this thread if the situation had stopped there. However, the htc-devs forum had a spring-up new users when they found out JJ had moved (including me), but then ubruptly died off after he moved to 4winmoble. Coincidence...I think not.
Even though I personally think that black3.x is not as stable as 2.5, I highly regard JJ roms and I think that he is one of the top developers out. This post is not trash his work. However, I registered for 4wnmobile (grrrr....again) and checked it out to find that:
Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Is is me or are there more ads than posts?
Isnt it convenient that a certain developer got his own sub-forum (unlike the other forums where his work was previously posted)
Is it me or upon checking this forum do you see the same noob posts that were seen in xda?
So, my question is...
If our highly regarded (not being sarcastic) chef has moved due to the noobular influx, why did he not stay at htc-devs where he had mod control do delete these posts? Why did he perpetuate his problem by going to 4winmob?
Has JJ gone "hollywood"?

I have no idea....
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.

at least your turrets only spits out a sentence. mine spits out 5 paragraphs

I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...

I see it like this:
Everyone has their choices. The ones you choose make who you are.
I personnally keep from postng as much as possible, not to be in the swarm of questions and be reffered to as a "noob". I have read and read the forums to upgrade my devices and fix them when I screw them up. If everyone would just read it would help out a lot.

CUSTEL said:
I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...
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Agreed. Let this subject die a quiet death.
There are plenty of us left who enjoy this forum and the work that everyone puts in. Chefs, people who share knowledge and answer posts. Noobs are mainly a problem when more experianced people get frustrated by them and start flame wars.
Just ignore them.
XDA still rocks.

Precisely... People come and go, it's natural progression... =)

Sleuth255 said:
I have no idea....
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Sleuth255 said:
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.
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Hi Slueth,
[sarcasm]
Great moderation by the way in the hermes forum.....
[/sarcarsm/]
No NOT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
i was given my own sub forum which i can completely moderate. I have also got two more moderators with me.
What is this crap about "Hollywood" posted by the member who started the thread? Get real dude, if u dont like then move on.
I also decided that having a general chit chat area on 4WM for people to get to know one another as well as to blow off steam- it is a good idea as it will help keep the tech discussions clean.
Now why dont u all just quit it,,,, for goodness sakes,,,, u are all making a big deal of this.
Yes the site has advertisements as 4winmobile.com is also a comprehensive product review site - WHO CARES!!!!! xda-devs has adds also.
Get over it and move on.....
And by the way, i dont make any money from 4WM - incase you were all wondering..... I just moved there as having control of my own forum seems like an excellent idea since MODERATION on this FORUM stinks!!!!!
Maybe if admin here gave users the power to moderate their threads things will be different. But WHO CARES now - MOVE ON!
Sick of this site, full of,,,, as has been put many times ****WITS!

@Peezy
Quote: Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Yes it has been slow at times DUE TO THE DDOS attacks - gee im wondering where they are coming from.
Really professional members on XDA-developers.

JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.

Ouch or Wow?
jellycow said:
JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.
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I'm going to guess that by the lack responses that I'm the first to blink, take a deep breath, and decide to say wow, or ouch. Wow for the last post and ouch for it as well. Whoever you are JELLYCOW, that's the most eloquent, constructively insightfull, and conclusively solid summary I think I've ever read in my life. Thank you. Well said; Top Notch; Classy to say the least.
So to JJ... Keep it real yo. As devolpers go, You're work is stellar, and I'm addicted. I went Black... and the only back I ever will go, is gonna be XDA Devs... I started with my Blue Angel and followed the phones as they came out. But my Hermes... it's heart & soul are from you. It's one of the many handsets that run your OS's, past present & yet to come. Keep doing your ****, we all gotta be good at something. This is what you do... you do it well. Your fans and testers, we will follow... Thanks bro.. Peace
NOW WILL SOMEBODY GET JELLYCOW A DAMN PUBLIC RELATIONS JOB WHILE YOU CAN STILL AFFORD THEM... CAUSE THAT ONE IS GONNA GO FAR... THAT LAST POST IS THE PROOF.
Now i'm going to suck down half a bottle of Hershy's Chocolate Syrup, have a glass of Almond Milk, and tuck my hermes into bed with me so it can wake me up in the morning... cause I'm passing out!!!
[And role credits... that's all folks]
-DJBlu

Well said
Agreed, well said JellyCow. I'm also a Noob, read daily and post infrequently and an avid Black 2.5 user. No question at all that JJ is very talented and deserves a lot of credit...though I think some people go overboard with the brown nosing. He kind of reminds me of some of my coder friends. Extremely talented but volatile. Sometimes extremely talented or tech savvy people just are not equipped with the personality or patience to deal with noobs. Often that only comes with maturity and age. Either way..try not to take yourself too seriously and remember that you started doing this for FUN.

Please, could someone move this PRECIOUS thread full of WONDERFULL non-requested advices to the off-topic section?
... I'm trying to read about WM6 ... thanks!

N1kko, L2readthruthreads.
Having downloaded most of JJs delicacies, I wondered what happened to him and his goodies.
This gives some closure.
All the best JJ.

Ok people, get over it.. like said before its the nature of the beast, people move on and new people take over... just because JJ is making a decision to move on doesnt mean that other people will stop cooking. Its not like this is the first time that a chef/developer has left to have a board they can moderate on due to frustrations from other members.
And who cares what his motivation to move on is?!? i mean honestly?!? JJ is going to do whats best for JJ, he is a big boy and can do what he wants. Its not like he is disappearing or quitting cooking, just moving. He was kind enough to let everyone know where he is going so you can join him, but that doesnt mean you have to abandon XDA either.. everyone has the freedom of choice, so make a choice and quit complaining.
Also i have had many conversations with JJ, and i like JJ, i personally dont want to see him go, but i also understand his frustration. This frustration is a double edged sword.. On one hand we have a developer that is good for the board, cooking roms, etc.. On the other hand we had a frustrated developer that was being abusive to noobs and other members which was making the boards harder to moderate...
JJ, i have an amazing amount of respect for you, and you know that, your a great guy and i do consider you a friend personally, but from a moderator standpoint in regards to the poor moderation; you were part of the problem just as much as the st00pid n00b questions that frustrated you.
With all that being said, i wish you well and hope to have future conversations with you!

Well, I cant say that the backlash was not expected, especially from JJ. I think he has every right to explain his concerns, and I am happy that he did. Again, for people who dont know how to FULLY read a post, I respect JJ's work and equally respect his talent as a developer. My reasoning for even posting this thread (sorry again mods for not posting in 'off-topic') is to give US tester a chance to air out our concerns.
We spend a LOT of time reading and learning how to get the best out of our devices. We pride ourselves in being memebers of this great site, and we pride the work that is published here. We all know that there are some problems with the noobs, and I agree with you shogunmark that this is just natural progression. What is NOT, however, is our ability to deal with it. We have all flamed before, and for those of you who have taken time to even ponder if there is a better solution, I thank you.
Im not here to flame JJ, that would be stupid seeing that I am currently using his ROM. I posted this thread to stir up the pot, and also to address our 'roots'. To speak out for us loyal xda-followers. I have once thought about finding another home, and I'm sure most of us have thought that too. I feel stupid for even attempting to follow JJ around the world for his stuff, and again I'm sure some of you feel the same way too.
The fact of the matter is that I started here, and this is where I am gonna stay. I thank all of you who share the same sense of passion and resolve to make sure that we keep xda the best site around!

It's my belief that this needed to be aired out. Thus the reason for my somewhat tongue-in-cheek initial post.
XDA developers forums are having issues not because of the way we run this board but because we're currently offering WM6 while the rest of the world is still running WM5.
History repeats itself. Have a look through the archives and you'll see astounding similarities when XDA was first to release WM5 while the rest of the world was still running 2003.
We will never silence the voice of a n00b here.

DINIK Defense Thread

You know what, honestly, I'm a huge fan of DINIKs work, it's beautiful. Hate me if you want, but he doesn't deserve the **** some people have put him through. If you don't like his work, simply shut the F*CK up and don't download it OR use a ROM that has it included...
Is it that hard to follow rules? Honestly... He asked people not to distribute his work without permission, yet I see it happening daily...
Yeah, I have "manipulated" his work, but only to fulfill requests IN HIS OFFICIAL HD2 ICON THREAD, saving him time.
Am I re-distributing his work without his permission? No, I assisted someone in need.
Some people became belligerent, harassing his work because it came with a ROM.... my answer to their stupidity, FLASH A NEW ROM FFS.... If you don't want DINIKs work on your Device, don't flash a ROM with it included. You're only making yourself look dumber.
Remember, most Chefs make ROMs to THEIR personal liking for their own devices, not just to please you. If I Cooked up a ROM and it had DINIKs work {with permission} in it, and someone asked me to get rid of it, I'd immediately direct that user back to the Device ROM fora, and tell them to choose another ROM. Simple as that.
Does DINIK support my creating of this thread? Honestly, probably not... but thanks to these people who consistently blab on about how bad his work is, and how "they can make it too", he has announced that his work will now be for his ROM only... which means HD2 only.
I have no plans to update my Device to a non-hardware keyboard device, so thanks a*sholes... now I, and MANY MANY others, no-longer get to enjoy the work of DINIK.
Do I care if you can make the Anastasia Icons as good as DINIK can? No, I don't. The IDEA behind the set is what makes it beautiful and worthwhile, and DINIK took the time out of HIS day to make ALL of the icons... I don't see you doing this.. I just see you wasting my precious bandwidth and oxygen.
Feel free to comment, BUT if you're going to RANT against me this thread, why don't you just PM an Admin and request for your account to be banned and deleted... it'll save us all a bunch of eye-sores and the chance of our IQs being lowered...
[I felt this thread was necessary to bring people back to reality. Some people are too asinine to simply respect someones work, and time put into the work. I feel the day is coming where Chefs no longer get thanked, nor receive donations... and the day that happens my friends is the day that we all become part of Apples Auschwitz Posse of Fanbois.]

With you on this one mate, too many people are disprespectful to people who spend their own time making other peoples lives/devices better.
we all suffer because of their stupidity, the worst bit is, folk who take what is not theirs and use as they wish without permission will likely not give a damn about it and they will simply move on to copy someone elses work

I 2nd and 3rd that one mate.....
The guys/girls on here that devote their time to making some amazing programs to make our devices a whole lot better than we could possibly imagine, and you get arseholes gobbing off...
I truely respect everyone of the developers and can only say...
IF SOMEONE DOESNT LIKE A CERTAIN PROGRAM/SOFTWARE.......DONT BLOODY DOWNLOAD IT....SIMPLE....
Respect to DINIK and ALL the developers on this site...!!!!
Viva la XDA.....

i cosign this post

Thx Agent Zach and others...i know 90% users here are happy with me and what im doing...its just that this 5-10 people...became so loud and so annoying...that its no more fun to be here and post...it all began with one user who disliked me...and now it started to grow...i dont know what they thinking...they all using my work...and attack me...that one who doing it for them? maybe they should think again about it...to attack an author is not a good idea itself...but to attack an author that you like (use his works) is def an idea of an idiot.
they attacked me and my works...and suffered now...cause i not doing anymore cabs and do only rom exclusive updates...now they started attacking my rom and to rip files out of it (because after the first attack they get no more cabs)...the stupidity have no end...with all that they gonna loose all...i just quit posting here.

I understand your choice 100%.
This thread was intended to show support to your work, as you can already see by the responses. But it was also intended to bring these ignorant folks out of their shell. Maybe they'll learn that people won't kneel at their feet and fulfill their demands.
All it takes is one person to screw something up, and it all rolls downhill from there... it's the vicious circle of idiocracy.
I just hope that one day, something or someone can help change your mind. I understand your thoughts on the Exclusivity of the new Anastasia for your ROM, but it does, in-fact, suck for the rest of us.
I love your work, simple & through. Whatever decisions you make, my friend, I support.
UPDATE::
One of the rules these people should take notice of:
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
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Read the rules HERE!

Mod Input
Just a gentle reminder that this thread is on watch to ensure that all members post within the forum rules...http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=534
If you see a post that is a problem please use the Report Button function to flag it up so we can take the appropriate action.
Many thanks
WB

Thus I linked to the Rules.
Trust me, I won't hesitate to Report.
Some people may even Report my first post in this thread, as the people it's directed towards may become upset with themselves, and then ME for pointing out their mistakes.

I'm not familiar with dinik, his work, or any of you guys that know him but based on what I've read here in the off topic section in the last couple days...
I'm nebenezer, and I approve this message.

Totally agreed with this thread! I don't know way, almost everyone have some of Dinnik's work; and the only thing some people do is dispute! He have changed for us the hole layout from our device, what I'm thankful fore and for some reason or a other there are always people's who don't respect him!!
Ok I must be honest, in the beginning I missed something ore like to see more of his stuff on my device!! So I have simply contact him to asked his authorization to used his basic work to create my'n, and I'm not he only one who have did that!! From the first time I have contact him, till know I have a new friend!! I don't know if it is me ore what!! But in each case my parents have learn me to asked and not to steal!!
It is a golden rules in life in brings you a great part father!
As I mentioned earlier Dinnik, you have more friends here than enemies!

kurt-willems said:
As I mentioned earlier Dinnik, you have more friends here than enemies!
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Exactly.
But I admit, being a Photoshop Artist myself, the smallest bit of criticism to my work does lower my self esteem and respect toward "the receivers" of my work, no matter how many positive comments I get.
Maybe it's just a conflict within ones' self, and not necessarily a hatred for the critics...
Maybe my metaphoric "Ego" is much more vulnerable than I thought... maybe every artists Ego is..

nebenezer said:
I'm not familiar with dinik, his work, or any of you guys that know him but based on what I've read here in the off topic section in the last couple days...
I'm nebenezer, and I approve this message.
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Brought to you by the JAguirre foundation for a better society.

Nice Thread!!!
Am a big fan of your work dinik..
A big thumbs up mate Keep up the good work

Welcome to the world dinik..It is something that you have got to get used to it. I know this from my experience..

DINIK......
Pse do not stop posting because of a few narrow minded idiots..!!! Your stuff if loved by thousands of people on this amazing site.. Keep up the good work fella...

[Q] Suggestions for improving Forum Etiquette

This is my reply to the mess of a thread located at:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=781513
I hope my suggestions are taken in the very helpful spirit that they were typed.
Thanks folks.
I'm gonna be all trolly here and what not. Is there not a way to simply FORCE people to read? As in, you can't post for 3 weeks after you join? It wouldn't stop people from being stupid, but it would help train them to Search & Read in the 3 weeks that they desperately wait for a Rom to drop.
This thread has the train wreck effect... I couldn't not read the whole damn thing. (I am actually very interested in getting the originally mentioned feature, btw.) And yes my post is Off-Topic, yet ridiculously relevant. I have quietly been a member of this forum for years and haven't seen this kind of wasted space ever. Maybe I should stop recommending people "Go check out xda developers online..." I am partially responsible for getting these people here. But, I believe a strong, open community is the best way to get results. Perhaps, all new members trying to post new threads outside of the General/Q&A forums get redirected to the Advanced Search page unless verified by a mod as a legitimate dev contributor? I am sure that would require coding a module for the forums... And since I don't know how to do any of that I will end my trolliness now. Oh wait, maybe a simpler solution - A "Wrong forum button" where if enough people vote the post gets moved. Seems simple enough and the mods can get the help they need without have the more - zealous - members of our community take matters into their own hands.
Thanks for your time and attention to my suggestions. I will now look for an appropriate place to post this in the main forum.
-Memo

See that's why I voted "against" xda samsung section, you'll see it will be even worse when we get an lg and istick sections
This place is becoming just like other places only flaming and "your problems are stupid because this is alright for me". Luckily there are still a lot of decent people around here which make me stay.

poll looks pretty inconclusive to me

Very umm, intellectual thread read that was.
But you know when inviting a couple of close friends over turns into a full blown Hizouse Partaaay a couple of fights are gonna break out...
Actions as such in that thread aren't very rampant but can make for an interesting read. But comparing contributions, join date and or post count in any situation is pretty moronic.
Has there ever been a thread where it ended happy and all party's posted:
Like, man I'm sorry man I was drunk.
Oh no man it's cool, man my wife was gettin on me about the garbage and kids were nagging.
So are we cool?
Yeah man. Can I invite you as a friend?
Oh totally!
That would be awesome to see...
good day.

I have seen many happy ending threads actually.
And honestly, I didn't really understand your ideas on what is being discussed. I think that if the actions were rampant then this site would be dying as many have before. XDA has a very long legacy, and it should be protected BEFORE it becomes a problem. Just how telling a 15 y/o that suddenly his backtalk is not acceptable would have no effect, telling the new influx of users being drawn by the boom in mobility that they have to behave in the forums when everything they see is "IS.HE.THE.DADDY.DNA.TEST-Developers.com" would be ineffective. Needs to be taken care of early. Prevent the problem. Don't waste tons of resources trying to fix it.
And just to be clear were you at all trying to be offensive, snarky, or sarcastic? Just curious.
- Memo

souljaboy said:
poll looks pretty inconclusive to me
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It's a wealth of information! Perhaps we need to stick people into the Brain Training room from Lost. ...I'll go look for my lab coat.

memorito said:
And honestly, I didn't really understand your ideas on what is being discussed.
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Actually just noticed the [Q] on the thread title, your post didn't really reference adding on to your suggestions. So my bad for not seeing the [Q]. Wrong forum button does have some potential. But the experienced xda user should know who his forum mod is and send a pm outlining any gripe with link to thread before turning it into a public chest puffing competition where in the end all who participated look like morons.
Is it feasible to have an ethics moderating committee that would monitor the content and actions of the first 15 posts of a new member? But it all still comes down to an individual showing that they have the utmost respect for xda and its users. Members involved in your example are not spring chickens and should be a little ashamed. Because a new user might think that is the norm for the forum.
memorito said:
And just to be clear were you at all trying to be offensive, snarky, or sarcastic?
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No. The house party statement does hold a lot truth though. Even 3 years ago the "smart phone" was seen as a business tool. Even you brought up the influx of new users as result of the mobile boom. I'm 36 now and didn't even get a cell phone till I was 23. Now I see children with devices that I would die to have or be able to afford. The age demographic of this site has changed so dramatically over the last couple of years. And as elder members we can only protect the image of xda by policing our own actions and utilizing the forum mods for what they are intended for.
Since it is off topic I still feel like I need to have a little fun.
Boobs....... o.k. I'm done.
good day.

a good start would be requiring everyone to add a nice greeting to the end of their posts according to the time of the day

ive talked to the mods about this in the past and they liked the idea, but havent added it yet:
requiring a signature to be set up upon first signing up to xda including current phone/s, rom, recovery, hboot, kernel...
having set up so that registering could not continue without filling out these fields (of course there would have to be a "how-to" option to help those that dont know what those are or how to find out what they have)
this would stop the
"can someone help me please! my phone wont boot"
"what phone do you have?"
"G1"
"what rom are you running?"
"stock 1.6"
"what hboot?"
exchanges which take up half the posts in a lot of threads

souljaboy said:
a good start would be requiring everyone to add a nice greeting to the end of their posts according to the time of the day
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tnpapadakos said:
requiring a signature to be set up upon first signing up
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This would also help create that pause for reflection and research that I think would really help the new members get oriented. Right from the start they learn they have to provide as much info as possible, if they are ever to get a response.
chopper the dog said:
Actually just noticed the [Q] ...
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Actually, I should have restructured the post. I just straight copy/pasted from a related thread where the info would have been read in context.
chopper the dog said:
Is it feasible to have an ethics moderating committee that would monitor the content and actions of the first 15 posts of a new member?... Members involved in your example are not spring chickens and should be a little ashamed. ...
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I don't know that it would be feasible. I was even thinking of perhaps a Volunteer Buddy Moderation, where you have to submit your first 5 posts for approval from a mentor. The mentor would be in charge of making sure the protocol was followed - Search And Read, Label subject line correctly, and provide full info... I just don't know that anyone is willing to work on the actual Forum Coding... And adding more work to the mods wouldn't be a good idea. If they had the time to constantly be vigil, they would kill the problem posts as soon as they are noticed.
chopper the dog said:
The age demographic of this site has changed so dramatically over the last couple of years. And as elder members we can only protect the image of xda by policing our own actions and utilizing the forum mods for what they are intended for.
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I guess it can be expected from the youngins, but how do you get the grumpy, reactionary elders to nod feed the flames?
chopper the dog said:
Since it is off topic I still feel like I need to have a little fun.
Boobs....... o.k. I'm done.
good day.
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Butts.
Good day to you too, sir.

Happy Ending. Don't see many of these. HERE
good day.

chopper the dog said:
Happy Ending. Don't see many of these. HERE
good day.
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That did work out rather nice... But they weren't being completely nasty to each other.
Not like these guys...
http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/7993-ffc-for-the-vibrant/
Some people have every intent of being offensive. Don't really get the point but hey.

Kids will be kids
What i see is a lot of kids (15-30) in this forum tend to think since they know...... you should too. Forums should encourage newbies to get involved and once they are communicating then, reroute them to the right forum etc. this kind of considerate rational act would improve and make this forum WAY better, but then, I digress.
Requiring the signature probably would be helpful, but I think the moderator being vigilant and remind the sarcastic, inconsiderate they once were Newbies may be just as effective. People need to remember that not all here are devs, programmers or really techies. A lot are here for the education..... but then....my wife always said i was too much an idealist

WOW hit a new level HERE.
good day.

[REF] How NOT to Treat Developers

I can't believe I have to write this post. Not long ago, the Atrix community on XDA-Developers was one of the most civil, respectful, and kind groups out there. Now, it appears new members have either joined and not learned the rules. Or, perhaps the older members forgot the rules. I'm ashamed and sad that the Atrix community let me down.
I will reiterate some of the rules below.
Do not demand things from developers. This may include feature requests for future releases. There is a line between respectfully requesting new features and disrespectfully demanding them. Learn it.
Do not swear on XDA-Developers ever.
Be kind and polite to all members, especially developers.
Be civil. There is a fine line between healthy debate and arguing. Do not cross that line.
Use the report button at the top right of each post to tell the moderation staff (me) that a post breaks the rules.
Do not give nonconstructive criticism to developers.

I agree with almost everything you said, Ken, except the part about this being an Atrix forum problem. From what I've seen, this is a growing problem in all of XDA as new people join the conversations, a growing number of people who feel free to say any damn thing they like without consequence simply because they're hidden behind a handle (without taking into account that there are real people just like them on the other side of their screens). Respectfully, it seems to me that to single out the Atrix forums for this problem -- which they do have, no question about it -- seems rather short-sighted.

MJPollard said:
I agree with almost everything you said, Ken, except the part about this being an Atrix forum problem. From what I've seen, this is a growing problem in all of XDA as new people join the conversations, a growing number of people who feel free to say any damn thing they like without consequence simply because they're hidden behind a handle (without taking into account that there are real people just like them on the other side of their screens). Respectfully, it seems to me that to single out the Atrix forums for this problem -- which they do have, no question about it -- seems rather short-sighted.
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What I meant by that insertion was that the Atrix forum community 8-9 months ago rarely/never behaved this way. The problem isn't necessarily with one forum or with XDA itself. I didn't mean to say that.
You nailed the problem on the head— people on the internet (no matter what forum you visit) will act as if there are no consequences and hide behind their web usernames.

Be civil. There is a fine line between healthy debate and arguing. Do not cross that line.
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The biggest issue, in my opinion.
Aside from the fact that users are often going "I'll donate IF you do this, IF I can have this by then" to developers.
This is more of an XDA Problem in general; with such a large user base, I suppose manners have simply disappeared on the forums.
Anyway, though I can't apologize on behalf of the rude and inconsiderate users you have probably dealt with, I'd like to personally say thank you for dealing with us all.

The demands made on the developers show a complete lack of respect and maturity, in my opinion.
The same should also be applied to fellow users. A little common respect for each other goes a long way. The constant bickering, name calling, and insults gets old fast.
Thanks for addressing this issue, Ken!

Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point: Treat people on XDA as you would politely in real life.
There are no robots on XDA. Each account has a real person behind it— a real person that can be frustrated, embarrassed, angry, and self-conscious.

you tell'em oldschool!!!
kennethpenn said:
Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point: Treat people on XDA as you would politely in real life.
There are no robots on XDA. Each account has a real person behind it— a real person that can be frustrated, embarrassed, angry, and self-conscious.
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LoL,I just called you oldschool cuz your one of the if not the original atrix dev but anyways I been apart of the xda community for over a year and just started posting like a couple Weeks ago just so I can help out with whatever I can because of all the help I been getting....just trying to give back like everyone else should be doing .I just wanna say thanks to everyone for the good work and making my phone worth having.

sweetmyke said:
LoL,I just called you oldschool cuz your one of the if not the original atrix dev but anyways I been apart of the xda community for over a year and just started posting like a couple Weeks ago just so I can help out with whatever I can because of all the help I been getting....just trying to give back like everyone else should be doing .I just wanna say thanks to everyone for the good work and making my phone worth having.
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Thanks for your input. Remember, the best way you can help keep our community great is to report people when they step out of line. Happy posting!

Another point which you can add :-
Please note that the devs have a personal life as well and do this for fun or learning new things in there free time. They have a day time job which pays for this hobby.Please respect that.

I apologise for sounding like an old man. I promise you i am not. This kind of thing had been a problem for a long time on Internet forums. Any one remember chat avenue? I believe that this has become more of a problem at xda because even though the site has any moderators their primary concern is technical and intellectual property. This is vital for a site such as this. But maybe there should be more enforcement of the rules of behavior? A couple of friendly warnings and advice and then failing that a tempory suspension. Failing that we trace their ip and send in a team of assassins.

i have to agree with this thread fully, sadly it came to this that it has to be stated so obvious, but some people really use words like "i want to have..." "make this..." and so on expressing rather demands than wishes/suggestions , it is true many users on xda are not native english speaking (me included), but there should be at least some thought put into posting so that it doesnt come out as demands or insults even.

As a non-english speaking dude, I *try* to avoid several expressions that perhaps in my native language may even sound polite, but translating them into english may sound bad, and express myself into simple english instead. If every non-english spoken people around here do the same, it will be easier separate the wheat from the straw...
My joining date don't make justice (at all) over the time I'm enjoying XDA developers' fruits, thus I want to express my most sincere thanks to every each developer and offer my humble help at anyone I can.
Keep doing the incredible job you're doing!!

As a non-native speaker it's not easy to hit the right tone. Most try their best but I think for some its hard to formulate a polite request, feature suggestion or bug report as such in a foreign language. And sometimes it comes out as a forceful command even if unintended.
And yes then there is the problem of individuals who can't even be polite in their own language because they never learned.
Lastly there are life forms who do not want to be polite without cause of beeing provoked.
For the first group I hope you use the principle of benefit of the doubt.
For the second we could try to teach them.
For the third just ban them.

My Story...
If you look at my join date, you'll see that I am also a very new member to these forums.
However, when I started, I was a total noob. So nooby that I got an infraction
I was only 16 and I knew nothing about ADB, editing build.prop's and all sorts; all I knew was how to flash stuff from recovery. I was admittedly a flash-o-holic, using Alien, Aura, DarkSide and Home Base ROM's and continuously switching back and forth.
Yet from this background, I have now created Neutrino ROM. The XDA forums as a community is a really good way to gain knowledge about all sort's of cool stuff. When used properly, it could really bring out the 'developer' inside of people. Creating my ROM was actually much easier than initially expected, and as time went on, I learnt more and more, enabling myself to include cooler and cooler tweaks.
My point is, that when these forums are used properly, it can really change people's lives. I think even Kennethpenn was in a similar situation, as I remember watching a video review of Alien ROM and it said in the description that he was a new developer.
It's a real shame that trolls cause all sorts of issues in the forums. If people respect each other and appreciate the benefits of open-source, then what a community this great community already, will be.

Twist79 said:
As a non-native speaker it's not easy to hit the right tone. Most try their best but I think for some its hard to formulate a polite request, feature suggestion or bug report as such in a foreign language. And sometimes it comes out as a forceful command even if unintended.
And yes then there is the problem of individuals who can't even be polite in their own language because they never learned.
Lastly there are life forms who do not want to be polite without cause of beeing provoked.
For the first group I hope you use the principle of benefit of the doubt.
For the second we could try to teach them.
For the third just ban them.
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Click to collapse
Fair enough. If you think your message may be unclear, just make sure to say "English is my second language" or something. I know the feeling. When I speak to people in Spanish, I can accidentally sound rude and not even know it.

I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.

Twist79 said:
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point!

Twist79 said:
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
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Click to collapse
I fully agree with you, this has happened to me in Simply-android, made ​​a request, but translated into English for the dev sounded bad, I had difficulty explaining that there was an obrigation, but a request ...
ps: is now happening again ....# 1158, # 1159 ....... sometimes it seems they are just waiting for someone to ask for something to start the insults ...
this is very sad ...

I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that some "veterans" of XDA can also be the problem. Some users like to act as the Judge and Jury all by themselves.
Now, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent, sometimes I take my shots at some people that are being malcontent but I do try to help them in that situation. What I have tried doing is to provide assistance with a dose of mild, if not playful, "flaming" just as a friendly reminder of the rules and etiquette. For the most part, I usually get positive responses in those instances. I guess my point is, it might be okay to, every once in awhile, criticize someone as long as you are trying to help and are being positive about it.
I can relate to @Notorious544d about being a n00b. One of my very first posts on XDA was a thread I started in the Development forum asking a question But I was met with positive feedback and a reminder of the rules and I haven't done it again.
Now, if you find yourself in a position where you can't be positive or constructive in your response then either ignore it or report it. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't step out of bounds on this one.
EDIT: I'm speaking about when interacting with other users and not developers.
kennethpenn said:
I can't believe I have to write this post. Not long ago, the Atrix community on XDA-Developers was one of the most civil, respectful, and kind groups out there. Now, it appears new members have either joined and not learned the rules. Or, perhaps the older members forgot the rules. I'm ashamed and sad that the Atrix community let me down.
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Click to collapse

live4nyy said:
I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that some "veterans" of XDA can also be the problem. Some users like to act as the Judge and Jury all by themselves.
Now, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent, sometimes I take my shots at some people that are being malcontent but I do try to help them in that situation. What I have tried doing is to provide assistance with a dose of mild, if not playful, "flaming" just as a friendly reminder of the rules and etiquette. For the most part, I usually get positive responses in those instances. I guess my point is, it might be okay to, every once in awhile, criticize someone as long as you are trying to help and are being positive about it.
I can relate to @Notorious544d about being a n00b. One of my very first posts on XDA was a thread I started in the Development forum asking a question But I was met with positive feedback and a reminder of the rules and I haven't done it again.
Now, if you find yourself in a position where you can't be positive or constructive in your response then either ignore it or report it. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't step out of bounds on this one.
EDIT: I speaking about when interacting with other users and not developers.
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I hate you!
I keed, I keed.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium

Dialogue between users and Mods...temporary thread will be temporary.

M_T_M said:
OK....after a major clean up this here thread should be back on topic.
@ OP....please carry on with maintaining this thread orginized. If don't wanna, PM and we'll change OPs.
No more tolling, please.
Cheers,
Click to expand...
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"holding "
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome

jugg1es said:
Sorry m8,but if you thought just a cleanup was what I was after then you misunderstood my reasons. It's a lot more than just a thread cleanup that's needed in OT, things have happened over the last few months that have driven good regular people away. Maybe an attitude shift is what's really needed and a closer look at why these people have stopped posting.
This is my last post in here, anyway "good luck and thanks for all the fish"
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome
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@jugg1es
[FONT=&quot]I honestly have no idea what you're referring to here, but honestly you should send a PM to someone here you trust about your concerns. At the end of the day, we can't fix something that we don't know is a problem.
I always read and reply to PMs.
As for this thread, it's still a great thread and I would hate for it to die after all the hard work of categorizing and organizing the great work of moderators past and present, so I will take over the thread if you do not want to continue updating it or no longer feel the passion of "gold digging" if you will. Let me know or @M_T_M and we go from there.
Godspeed my friend...[/FONT]

orangekid said:
@jugg1es
[FONT=&quot]I honestly have no idea what you're referring to here, but honestly you should send a PM to someone here you trust about your concerns. At the end of the day, we can't fix something that we don't know is a problem.
I always read and reply to PMs.
As for this thread, it's still a great thread and I would hate for it to die after all the hard work of categorizing and organizing the great work of moderators past and present, so I will take over the thread if you do not want to continue updating it or no longer feel the passion of "gold digging" if you will. Let me know or @M_T_M and we go from there.
Godspeed my friend...[/FONT]
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I'm currently chatting with M_T_M regarding this.
I would also hate to see the good things in this thread go, I also want it to continue in a decent vein. I'm gonna wait for a bit and see what happens
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome

M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

jugg1es said:
M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris
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Sorry to see you go Glenn.

vanessaem said:
Sorry to see you go Glenn.
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Better to walk away than get thrown out for saying something stupid regardless of how truthful I think it is
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

jugg1es said:
M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris
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Click to collapse
LOLQUE??!!
But, but, but...u mad tho?
What ever happened to "let's talk about it" and "if you see something that requires the MC attention, report it" discussion we had?
I see your point about the post with the benchmark being deleted (not necessary IMHO) but...there's still LULZ to be had and LUL we shall, mate!!
Don't rage quit on me, man!!! You are better than this...

M_T_M said:
LOLQUE??!!
But, but, but...u mad tho?
What ever happened to "let's talk about it" and "if you see something that requires the MC attention, report it" discussion we had?
I see your point about the post with the benchmark being deleted (not necessary IMHO) but...there's still LULZ to be had and LUL we shall, mate!!
Don't rage quit on me, man!!! You are better than this...
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Its not a rage quit, it's simply a case of lost heart in the system. It doesn't work, ot gets all the 10 posters, then the first thing that happens is the dev threads full up with questions pretty much unchecked. During my lurking it seems that ot has become the home for moderation and dev threads have been left to become a mess. The rom q&a threads (which is a good idea) aren't used and the actual dev threads fill up. I'm no developer but I have become an experienced abuser of the platform, searching for anything in a thread has become a complete nightmare, search for a solution to any problem and you end up faced with hundreds of questions all asking the same thing with hundreds of different answers. OK so the gtfo and go use the search may have come across as harsh but it did force people to search(me included, I asked a fair few stupid questions) it was the harshness that forced me to learn how to use the search effectively, that effectiveness has been eroded. I know this has become a 'family friendly' forum but with the average age of people wanting to mod their devices getting lower at an alarming rate it seems that "give me nao" attitude of today's youth is being pandered to.
I came here to rid myself of sense on the saga, I found a community of people that helped by making me do, great conversation and friendship. It was an escape from the "give me nao" I have all day at work and that attitude is something I spend hours confronting and helping people do themselves. This is what xda was to me, now it's just a "ok I'll do all your searching for you and link you to the post 2 above yours".
Rage.... No, certainly not my friend.
(think I found one of your accounts on g+ and added it)
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

Ok,
I've seen the back and forth in this thread.
Now I used to be an off topic denizen, as well as the Market Place when it existed. I know exactly how it was moderated and what it "used to be like."
I know the current people who moderate this section now, and honestly they deserve more respect than this. They are not here to make YOUR life hard, or to "ruin the fun," but to get moderation done just like any other section. Moderating is thankless job, and the one thing you do that someone doesn't agree with you get to hear about in posts like these.
You might take a step back and look to see if it's not XDA that's changed so much, but maybe you have too. Now I started this thread originally, because I thought it would be humorous collection of moderation rants and closes, and I wanted to contribute to the OT section of XDA.
Now I contribute as a moderator.
You've listed the reasons why you come to XDA and OT, but what do you contribute to the community? This IS a ragequit and honestly it's a poor way to deal with things. You need to use communication to handle the issues you feel are present instead of this big dramatic reasoning for leaving.
If you are going to leave, then I guess you gotta leave. There is no one person bigger than XDA.
But instead of being upset that about what XDA isn't doing for you, you might consider how you can contribute even more to the community, and try to actually get in communication with the moderating crew, you might be surprised how approachable they are.
I am saying this not as a moderator (this is not even my section), but as an XDA community member.
I would challenge you to take more responsibility in this community, and not observe the happenings around you and decide on an apathetic exit.
You are always welcome to give new ideas, to open up Q&A threads, to help out in so many ways, but just saying "the system doesn't work" and taking your ball and going home doesn't really help, does it?
There have always been "give me answers now" people on this site and there will always be, it is up to the community as a whole to make this about personal responsibility, and if you've given up the good fight, then we will continue anyways.
The choice, however, is always yours.
If you are not going to update this thread anymore, I can have someone transfer it back to me, but I'd rather you continue if you're up for it.

orangekid said:
I know the current people who moderate this section now, and honestly they deserve more respect than this. They are not here to make YOUR life hard, or to "ruin the fun," but to get moderation done just like any other section. Moderating is thankless job, and the one thing you do that someone doesn't agree with you get to hear about in posts like these.
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This made me laugh and cringe at the same time... There are maybe 3 mods in OT that deserve respect, the rest, not so much. I was raised you have to give respect to get respect and most give none so they get none in return. They won't be named because I'll undoubtedly be banned again for it.
Being a mod is a power position that many mods take advantage of, if you disagree just look at some of the posts linked in this very thread, they do the exact things that they have infracted and banned other users for! Trolling threads (in many cases unlocking a locked thread to do so) with senseless memes and degrading members with their replies in some cases, that behavior doesn't deserve respect at all. Being a mod some of you should really learn to lead by example and stop setting bad examples for other members. If you wouldn't want a "regular" member to do it, as a mod you definitely shouldn't be doing it... Not aimed at you Orangekid, just a general statement to all mods alike

flastnoles11 said:
This made me laugh and cringe at the same time... There are maybe 3 mods in OT that deserve respect, the rest, not so much. I was raised you have to give respect to get respect and most give none so they get none in return. They won't be named because I'll undoubtedly be banned again for it.
Being a mod is a power position that many mods take advantage of, if you disagree just look at some of the posts linked in this very thread, they do the exact things that they have infracted and banned other users for! Trolling threads (in many cases unlocking a locked thread to do so) with senseless memes and degrading members with their replies in some cases, that behavior doesn't deserve respect at all. Being a mod some of you should really learn to lead by example and stop setting bad examples for other members. If you wouldn't want a "regular" member to do it, as a mod you definitely shouldn't be doing it... Not aimed at you Orangekid, just a general statement to all mods alike
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I understand completely.
I think we're on different sides of the fence on some of this. The bottom line is I know how the moderation game works and these guys bust their butts to make this the best place for mobile development, period.
Regardless, they are all open to communication and the MC is ALWAYS open as well.
At the end of the day we need to come together as a community.
It seems to be doing little good to go on and on about it here though honestly (me included), the most benefit would be to PM an MC member on this matter.
They will always listen, and you can take that to the bank.
But public ragequit does not resolve it.
That's the last I'll say on the matter, my inbox is always open too.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

orangekid said:
I understand completely.
I think we're on different sides of the fence on some of this. The bottom line is I know how the moderation game works and these guys bust their butts to make this the best place for mobile development, period.
Regardless, they are all open to communication and the MC is ALWAYS open as well.
At the end of the day we need to come together as a community.
It seems to be doing little good to go on and on about it here though honestly (me included), the most benefit would be to PM an MC member on this matter.
They will always listen, and you can take that to the bank.
But public ragequit does not resolve it.
That's the last I'll say on the matter, my inbox is always open too.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
I her what you're saying, I mod on a pretty big sports forum (over 2 million members now I believe) so I get what it takes, but when mods do one thing and then ban a member for that exact same thing it makes the mods in general look pretty immature and frankly, dumb...
It would be great if everybody could come together, but until some of the mods change their "I'm right about everything, you're wrong because I'm a mod" attitude is not going to happen.
I think the biggest point people are trying to make about the OT situation as a whole is that in OT, a post doesn't even have to be reported and within the hour it's gone, where as in dev threads you can report posts and they'll still be there days later. If a little more of that attention was spent on the parts of the site THAT ACTUALLY MATTER, there would be less of this going on...
This is the only forum I've ever been a part of where there is more mod attention in an OT section than in parts of the forum that actually pertain to the existence of the site in the first place.... Not saying ot shouldn't be modded the way it is, but the rest of the site should have those same standards and no matter what any mod says, it simply isn't.
Mods should also be held to a higher standard and when they're allowed to troll threads with memes while other users get infractions for the same behavior something is horribly wrong there

Guys, OT is getting the same attention as the other forums we moderate. We don't go checking every new post, though, which is why reports are important... Obviously, if we get a report we tend to keep an eye on the thread for a bit, which isn't very hard to do with notifications.
The point is: OT is not special. Really. It gets the same amount of attention as other forums and despite what you may think, we mostly rely on reports.
If you feel an issue you've reported hasn't been resolved, then please contact the moderator who took it. It might not require an action for some reason, or it might be still an open issue... So contact the acting mod and you'll get an explanation.
Similarly, if you have an issue with a particular mod, contact him and let him know about it, politely. If you think that's of no use, there's the moderator committee as well.
Also, about the spamming of memes: we haven't been doing that as of late. It was mostly done to give some lulz for all parties involved, but you didn't like it and we did listen.

flastnoles11 said:
I her what you're saying, I mod on a pretty big sports forum (over 2 million members now I believe) so I get what it takes, but when mods do one thing and then ban a member for that exact same thing it makes the mods in general look pretty immature and frankly, dumb...
It would be great if everybody could come together, but until some of the mods change their "I'm right about everything, you're wrong because I'm a mod" attitude is not going to happen.
I think the biggest point people are trying to make about the OT situation as a whole is that in OT, a post doesn't even have to be reported and within the hour it's gone, where as in dev threads you can report posts and they'll still be there days later. If a little more of that attention was spent on the parts of the site THAT ACTUALLY MATTER, there would be less of this going on...
This is the only forum I've ever been a part of where there is more mod attention in an OT section than in parts of the forum that actually pertain to the existence of the site in the first place.... Not saying ot shouldn't be modded the way it is, but the rest of the site should have those same standards and no matter what any mod says, it simply isn't.
Mods should also be held to a higher standard and when they're allowed to troll threads with memes while other users get infractions for the same behavior something is horribly wrong there
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Lol...what are you talking about? What mod is doing something that's worth a ban?
I'm sorry to break it to you but we have way too many forums to cover to focus all of our attention here. Please come out of the OT forum every once in a while and you will see that moderating goes on elsewhere. Like I posted on another thread, OT gets away with a lot more than any other forum. So much so that some come from other forums and feel this is the place in which to break the rules and do whatever they feel like. I hope we all know that this isn't how it's supposed to be.
Ok no more memes and trolling from mods but I'm pretty sure that won't make anyone happy either. *Sigh*

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vanessaem said:
Lol...what are you talking about? What mod is doing something that's worth a ban?
I'm sorry to break it to you but we have way too many forums to cover to focus all of our attention here. Please come out of the OT forum every once in a while and you will see that moderating goes on elsewhere. Like I posted on another thread, OT gets away with a lot more than any other forum. So much so that some come from other forums and feel this is the place in which to break the rules and do whatever they feel like. I hope we all know that this isn't how it's supposed to be.
Ok no more memes and trolling from mods but I'm pretty sure that won't make anyone happy either. *Sigh*
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I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*

flastnoles11 said:
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I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*
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Ok I've done the very same thing somewhere. No one can seem to find that many posts of mine funny or trollish enough to post in this thread but somehow you found some examples...ok. Anyway, we seem to be going around in circles here. The mods are out to get you, some feel victimized, the mods are the enemy except a chosen few, xda is going down the tubes because moderators are moderating, circles and ponies.

vanessaem said:
Ok I've done the very same thing somewhere. No one can seem to find that many posts of mine funny or trollish enough to post in this thread but somehow you found some examples...ok. Anyway, we seem to be going around in circles here. The mods are out to get you, some feel victimized, the mods are the enemy except a chosen few, xda is going down the tubes because moderators are moderating, circles and ponies.
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Again nobody said anything like that, but it doesn't surprise me that you would twist everything to better suit you...
And don't act like you've never posted memes into threads (following the moderator crowd as to not feel left out I'm sure) I've seen it just like many others have, you're not the lone mod in ot that doesn't do it... Just because you're not funny enough to make this thread doesn't mean you haven't done it..

flastnoles11 said:
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I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*
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You are correct. There have been times when we ask members to not do something and then went ahead and did it ourselves. That isn't really leading by example and we have listened to that complaint. It recently has been brought up with in our team chat and we listened to the complaint. We will no longer be spamming threads with memes. The only reason we really did it in the first place was at the request of others.
With that being said I am glad you brought this up. It is a perfect example of how if you all feel that something is out of place you guys can come to us. You didn't like us doing something that you guys were told not to do (even if it was at the request of others) and we agreed with the statement and listened to you all changing our ways. I know some of you have an unfavorable view of me, but please understand I always try to stay impartial and if any of you ever bring an issue to my attention I will do whatever is in my power to address it properly. So will the others in my team. If they don't, feel free to report the PM or contact our team leader @crachel as well.
As the others have said, from a team standpoint, the OT forum is nothing more than a very minor blimp on our radar. We have 70 other forums each with their own set of issues to deal with. To us, ot is nothing more than a forum on the list of forums we moderate. We really do not see it has any different than any other forum on XDA.
So I will ask that you please bring us any complaints you guys have before it builds up and explodes. Once people reach the point of no return generally there is no fixing the situation. It is something like that we would like to avoid and I assume so would you all. Us mods are truly here for you guys and we all know we wouldn't have xda without the members

flastnoles11 said:
Again nobody said anything like that, but it doesn't surprise me that you would twist everything to better suit you...
And don't act like you've never posted memes into threads (following the moderator crowd as to not feel left out I'm sure) I've seen it just like many others have, you're not the lone mod in ot that doesn't do it... Just because you're not funny enough to make this thread doesn't mean you haven't done it..
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Such anger. Too bad. So I posted a meme a few times. BTW...I never said anyone shouldn't post memes.
Oh boy...

mark manning said:
You are correct. There have been times when we ask members to not do something and then went ahead and did it ourselves. That isn't really leading by example and we have listened to that complaint. It recently has been brought up with in our team chat and we listened to the complaint. We will no longer be spamming threads with memes. The only reason we really did it in the first place was at the request of others.
With that being said I am glad you brought this up. It is a perfect example of how if you all feel that something is out of place you guys can come to us. You didn't like us doing something that you guys were told not to do (even if it was at the request of others) and we agreed with the statement and listened to you all changing our ways. I know some of you have an unfavorable view of me, but please understand I always try to stay impartial and if any of you ever bring an issue to my attention I will do whatever is in my power to address it properly. So will the others in my team. If they don't, feel free to report the PM or contact our team leader @crachel as well.
As the others have said, from a team standpoint, the OT forum is nothing more than a very minor blimp on our radar. We have 70 other forums each with their own set of issues to deal with. To us, ot is nothing more than a forum on the list of forums we moderate. We really do not see it has any different than any other forum on XDA.
So I will ask that you please bring us any complaints you guys have before it builds up and explodes. Once people reach the point of no return generally there is no fixing the situation. It is something like that we would like to avoid and I assume so would you all. Us mods are truly here for you guys and we all know we wouldn't have xda without the members
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Thank you for at least standing up and admitting to it instead of back pedaling like the other that decided to reply with a condescending, I'm better than you, attitude. (the exact thing I was talking about so it really got a good chuckle out of me) me and you have had words in the past, but you just earned some respect with your reply.
I honestly think it would make a difference if users didn't see mods do the exact thing they tell others not to do, maybe not much, but I believe it'll make a difference. I understand that being a mod is not a perfect science and mistakes will be made (being a mod elsewhere I know it's not the easiest thing sometimes), but honestly one of the biggest mistakes a mod can make is being above the rules they are supposed to enforce, one of them was being broken by mods regularly, seeing that change is a step in the right direction imo