Database Develop

The Black Files...

I have been going back and forth for a bit on wether or not to post this thread, but I think it is only fair for us testers and to post our thoughts and concerns. Mods, I apologize for posting a political thread in a technical forum, but this seems to be an applicable and thread worthy discussion So here it goes:
If anyone other than me (and the 5 trillion noobs on this site) have been following the 'black revolution', does anything seem funny about this whole situation with JJ leaving? First, he goes to htc-devs claiming that he refuses to deal with all of the stupid questions and double posts. This is understandable, and I would not be posting this thread if the situation had stopped there. However, the htc-devs forum had a spring-up new users when they found out JJ had moved (including me), but then ubruptly died off after he moved to 4winmoble. Coincidence...I think not.
Even though I personally think that black3.x is not as stable as 2.5, I highly regard JJ roms and I think that he is one of the top developers out. This post is not trash his work. However, I registered for 4wnmobile (grrrr....again) and checked it out to find that:
Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Is is me or are there more ads than posts?
Isnt it convenient that a certain developer got his own sub-forum (unlike the other forums where his work was previously posted)
Is it me or upon checking this forum do you see the same noob posts that were seen in xda?
So, my question is...
If our highly regarded (not being sarcastic) chef has moved due to the noobular influx, why did he not stay at htc-devs where he had mod control do delete these posts? Why did he perpetuate his problem by going to 4winmob?
Has JJ gone "hollywood"?

I have no idea....
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.

at least your turrets only spits out a sentence. mine spits out 5 paragraphs

I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...

I see it like this:
Everyone has their choices. The ones you choose make who you are.
I personnally keep from postng as much as possible, not to be in the swarm of questions and be reffered to as a "noob". I have read and read the forums to upgrade my devices and fix them when I screw them up. If everyone would just read it would help out a lot.

CUSTEL said:
I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...
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Agreed. Let this subject die a quiet death.
There are plenty of us left who enjoy this forum and the work that everyone puts in. Chefs, people who share knowledge and answer posts. Noobs are mainly a problem when more experianced people get frustrated by them and start flame wars.
Just ignore them.
XDA still rocks.

Precisely... People come and go, it's natural progression... =)

Sleuth255 said:
I have no idea....
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Sleuth255 said:
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.
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Hi Slueth,
[sarcasm]
Great moderation by the way in the hermes forum.....
[/sarcarsm/]
No NOT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
i was given my own sub forum which i can completely moderate. I have also got two more moderators with me.
What is this crap about "Hollywood" posted by the member who started the thread? Get real dude, if u dont like then move on.
I also decided that having a general chit chat area on 4WM for people to get to know one another as well as to blow off steam- it is a good idea as it will help keep the tech discussions clean.
Now why dont u all just quit it,,,, for goodness sakes,,,, u are all making a big deal of this.
Yes the site has advertisements as 4winmobile.com is also a comprehensive product review site - WHO CARES!!!!! xda-devs has adds also.
Get over it and move on.....
And by the way, i dont make any money from 4WM - incase you were all wondering..... I just moved there as having control of my own forum seems like an excellent idea since MODERATION on this FORUM stinks!!!!!
Maybe if admin here gave users the power to moderate their threads things will be different. But WHO CARES now - MOVE ON!
Sick of this site, full of,,,, as has been put many times ****WITS!

@Peezy
Quote: Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Yes it has been slow at times DUE TO THE DDOS attacks - gee im wondering where they are coming from.
Really professional members on XDA-developers.

JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.

Ouch or Wow?
jellycow said:
JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.
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I'm going to guess that by the lack responses that I'm the first to blink, take a deep breath, and decide to say wow, or ouch. Wow for the last post and ouch for it as well. Whoever you are JELLYCOW, that's the most eloquent, constructively insightfull, and conclusively solid summary I think I've ever read in my life. Thank you. Well said; Top Notch; Classy to say the least.
So to JJ... Keep it real yo. As devolpers go, You're work is stellar, and I'm addicted. I went Black... and the only back I ever will go, is gonna be XDA Devs... I started with my Blue Angel and followed the phones as they came out. But my Hermes... it's heart & soul are from you. It's one of the many handsets that run your OS's, past present & yet to come. Keep doing your ****, we all gotta be good at something. This is what you do... you do it well. Your fans and testers, we will follow... Thanks bro.. Peace
NOW WILL SOMEBODY GET JELLYCOW A DAMN PUBLIC RELATIONS JOB WHILE YOU CAN STILL AFFORD THEM... CAUSE THAT ONE IS GONNA GO FAR... THAT LAST POST IS THE PROOF.
Now i'm going to suck down half a bottle of Hershy's Chocolate Syrup, have a glass of Almond Milk, and tuck my hermes into bed with me so it can wake me up in the morning... cause I'm passing out!!!
[And role credits... that's all folks]
-DJBlu

Well said
Agreed, well said JellyCow. I'm also a Noob, read daily and post infrequently and an avid Black 2.5 user. No question at all that JJ is very talented and deserves a lot of credit...though I think some people go overboard with the brown nosing. He kind of reminds me of some of my coder friends. Extremely talented but volatile. Sometimes extremely talented or tech savvy people just are not equipped with the personality or patience to deal with noobs. Often that only comes with maturity and age. Either way..try not to take yourself too seriously and remember that you started doing this for FUN.

Please, could someone move this PRECIOUS thread full of WONDERFULL non-requested advices to the off-topic section?
... I'm trying to read about WM6 ... thanks!

N1kko, L2readthruthreads.
Having downloaded most of JJs delicacies, I wondered what happened to him and his goodies.
This gives some closure.
All the best JJ.

Ok people, get over it.. like said before its the nature of the beast, people move on and new people take over... just because JJ is making a decision to move on doesnt mean that other people will stop cooking. Its not like this is the first time that a chef/developer has left to have a board they can moderate on due to frustrations from other members.
And who cares what his motivation to move on is?!? i mean honestly?!? JJ is going to do whats best for JJ, he is a big boy and can do what he wants. Its not like he is disappearing or quitting cooking, just moving. He was kind enough to let everyone know where he is going so you can join him, but that doesnt mean you have to abandon XDA either.. everyone has the freedom of choice, so make a choice and quit complaining.
Also i have had many conversations with JJ, and i like JJ, i personally dont want to see him go, but i also understand his frustration. This frustration is a double edged sword.. On one hand we have a developer that is good for the board, cooking roms, etc.. On the other hand we had a frustrated developer that was being abusive to noobs and other members which was making the boards harder to moderate...
JJ, i have an amazing amount of respect for you, and you know that, your a great guy and i do consider you a friend personally, but from a moderator standpoint in regards to the poor moderation; you were part of the problem just as much as the st00pid n00b questions that frustrated you.
With all that being said, i wish you well and hope to have future conversations with you!

Well, I cant say that the backlash was not expected, especially from JJ. I think he has every right to explain his concerns, and I am happy that he did. Again, for people who dont know how to FULLY read a post, I respect JJ's work and equally respect his talent as a developer. My reasoning for even posting this thread (sorry again mods for not posting in 'off-topic') is to give US tester a chance to air out our concerns.
We spend a LOT of time reading and learning how to get the best out of our devices. We pride ourselves in being memebers of this great site, and we pride the work that is published here. We all know that there are some problems with the noobs, and I agree with you shogunmark that this is just natural progression. What is NOT, however, is our ability to deal with it. We have all flamed before, and for those of you who have taken time to even ponder if there is a better solution, I thank you.
Im not here to flame JJ, that would be stupid seeing that I am currently using his ROM. I posted this thread to stir up the pot, and also to address our 'roots'. To speak out for us loyal xda-followers. I have once thought about finding another home, and I'm sure most of us have thought that too. I feel stupid for even attempting to follow JJ around the world for his stuff, and again I'm sure some of you feel the same way too.
The fact of the matter is that I started here, and this is where I am gonna stay. I thank all of you who share the same sense of passion and resolve to make sure that we keep xda the best site around!

It's my belief that this needed to be aired out. Thus the reason for my somewhat tongue-in-cheek initial post.
XDA developers forums are having issues not because of the way we run this board but because we're currently offering WM6 while the rest of the world is still running WM5.
History repeats itself. Have a look through the archives and you'll see astounding similarities when XDA was first to release WM5 while the rest of the world was still running 2003.
We will never silence the voice of a n00b here.

[Q] Suggestions for improving Forum Etiquette

This is my reply to the mess of a thread located at:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=781513
I hope my suggestions are taken in the very helpful spirit that they were typed.
Thanks folks.
I'm gonna be all trolly here and what not. Is there not a way to simply FORCE people to read? As in, you can't post for 3 weeks after you join? It wouldn't stop people from being stupid, but it would help train them to Search & Read in the 3 weeks that they desperately wait for a Rom to drop.
This thread has the train wreck effect... I couldn't not read the whole damn thing. (I am actually very interested in getting the originally mentioned feature, btw.) And yes my post is Off-Topic, yet ridiculously relevant. I have quietly been a member of this forum for years and haven't seen this kind of wasted space ever. Maybe I should stop recommending people "Go check out xda developers online..." I am partially responsible for getting these people here. But, I believe a strong, open community is the best way to get results. Perhaps, all new members trying to post new threads outside of the General/Q&A forums get redirected to the Advanced Search page unless verified by a mod as a legitimate dev contributor? I am sure that would require coding a module for the forums... And since I don't know how to do any of that I will end my trolliness now. Oh wait, maybe a simpler solution - A "Wrong forum button" where if enough people vote the post gets moved. Seems simple enough and the mods can get the help they need without have the more - zealous - members of our community take matters into their own hands.
Thanks for your time and attention to my suggestions. I will now look for an appropriate place to post this in the main forum.
-Memo

See that's why I voted "against" xda samsung section, you'll see it will be even worse when we get an lg and istick sections
This place is becoming just like other places only flaming and "your problems are stupid because this is alright for me". Luckily there are still a lot of decent people around here which make me stay.

poll looks pretty inconclusive to me

Very umm, intellectual thread read that was.
But you know when inviting a couple of close friends over turns into a full blown Hizouse Partaaay a couple of fights are gonna break out...
Actions as such in that thread aren't very rampant but can make for an interesting read. But comparing contributions, join date and or post count in any situation is pretty moronic.
Has there ever been a thread where it ended happy and all party's posted:
Like, man I'm sorry man I was drunk.
Oh no man it's cool, man my wife was gettin on me about the garbage and kids were nagging.
So are we cool?
Yeah man. Can I invite you as a friend?
Oh totally!
That would be awesome to see...
good day.

I have seen many happy ending threads actually.
And honestly, I didn't really understand your ideas on what is being discussed. I think that if the actions were rampant then this site would be dying as many have before. XDA has a very long legacy, and it should be protected BEFORE it becomes a problem. Just how telling a 15 y/o that suddenly his backtalk is not acceptable would have no effect, telling the new influx of users being drawn by the boom in mobility that they have to behave in the forums when everything they see is "IS.HE.THE.DADDY.DNA.TEST-Developers.com" would be ineffective. Needs to be taken care of early. Prevent the problem. Don't waste tons of resources trying to fix it.
And just to be clear were you at all trying to be offensive, snarky, or sarcastic? Just curious.
- Memo

souljaboy said:
poll looks pretty inconclusive to me
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It's a wealth of information! Perhaps we need to stick people into the Brain Training room from Lost. ...I'll go look for my lab coat.

memorito said:
And honestly, I didn't really understand your ideas on what is being discussed.
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Actually just noticed the [Q] on the thread title, your post didn't really reference adding on to your suggestions. So my bad for not seeing the [Q]. Wrong forum button does have some potential. But the experienced xda user should know who his forum mod is and send a pm outlining any gripe with link to thread before turning it into a public chest puffing competition where in the end all who participated look like morons.
Is it feasible to have an ethics moderating committee that would monitor the content and actions of the first 15 posts of a new member? But it all still comes down to an individual showing that they have the utmost respect for xda and its users. Members involved in your example are not spring chickens and should be a little ashamed. Because a new user might think that is the norm for the forum.
memorito said:
And just to be clear were you at all trying to be offensive, snarky, or sarcastic?
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No. The house party statement does hold a lot truth though. Even 3 years ago the "smart phone" was seen as a business tool. Even you brought up the influx of new users as result of the mobile boom. I'm 36 now and didn't even get a cell phone till I was 23. Now I see children with devices that I would die to have or be able to afford. The age demographic of this site has changed so dramatically over the last couple of years. And as elder members we can only protect the image of xda by policing our own actions and utilizing the forum mods for what they are intended for.
Since it is off topic I still feel like I need to have a little fun.
Boobs....... o.k. I'm done.
good day.

a good start would be requiring everyone to add a nice greeting to the end of their posts according to the time of the day

ive talked to the mods about this in the past and they liked the idea, but havent added it yet:
requiring a signature to be set up upon first signing up to xda including current phone/s, rom, recovery, hboot, kernel...
having set up so that registering could not continue without filling out these fields (of course there would have to be a "how-to" option to help those that dont know what those are or how to find out what they have)
this would stop the
"can someone help me please! my phone wont boot"
"what phone do you have?"
"G1"
"what rom are you running?"
"stock 1.6"
"what hboot?"
exchanges which take up half the posts in a lot of threads

souljaboy said:
a good start would be requiring everyone to add a nice greeting to the end of their posts according to the time of the day
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tnpapadakos said:
requiring a signature to be set up upon first signing up
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This would also help create that pause for reflection and research that I think would really help the new members get oriented. Right from the start they learn they have to provide as much info as possible, if they are ever to get a response.
chopper the dog said:
Actually just noticed the [Q] ...
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Actually, I should have restructured the post. I just straight copy/pasted from a related thread where the info would have been read in context.
chopper the dog said:
Is it feasible to have an ethics moderating committee that would monitor the content and actions of the first 15 posts of a new member?... Members involved in your example are not spring chickens and should be a little ashamed. ...
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I don't know that it would be feasible. I was even thinking of perhaps a Volunteer Buddy Moderation, where you have to submit your first 5 posts for approval from a mentor. The mentor would be in charge of making sure the protocol was followed - Search And Read, Label subject line correctly, and provide full info... I just don't know that anyone is willing to work on the actual Forum Coding... And adding more work to the mods wouldn't be a good idea. If they had the time to constantly be vigil, they would kill the problem posts as soon as they are noticed.
chopper the dog said:
The age demographic of this site has changed so dramatically over the last couple of years. And as elder members we can only protect the image of xda by policing our own actions and utilizing the forum mods for what they are intended for.
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I guess it can be expected from the youngins, but how do you get the grumpy, reactionary elders to nod feed the flames?
chopper the dog said:
Since it is off topic I still feel like I need to have a little fun.
Boobs....... o.k. I'm done.
good day.
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Butts.
Good day to you too, sir.

Happy Ending. Don't see many of these. HERE
good day.

chopper the dog said:
Happy Ending. Don't see many of these. HERE
good day.
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That did work out rather nice... But they weren't being completely nasty to each other.
Not like these guys...
http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/7993-ffc-for-the-vibrant/
Some people have every intent of being offensive. Don't really get the point but hey.

Kids will be kids
What i see is a lot of kids (15-30) in this forum tend to think since they know...... you should too. Forums should encourage newbies to get involved and once they are communicating then, reroute them to the right forum etc. this kind of considerate rational act would improve and make this forum WAY better, but then, I digress.
Requiring the signature probably would be helpful, but I think the moderator being vigilant and remind the sarcastic, inconsiderate they once were Newbies may be just as effective. People need to remember that not all here are devs, programmers or really techies. A lot are here for the education..... but then....my wife always said i was too much an idealist

WOW hit a new level HERE.
good day.

[poll] Is anyone interested in town hall meeting with mod participation?

To all,
I don't really know what is going on in here, why you guys are fighting, or why you simply can't get along. We have been acting a lot in here only to see nothing more than constant flaming, finger pointing, and the such... all behaviors that are not allowed in XDA grounds (see rule 2).
Over the last week or so there have been constant comments, complains, and tons of issues coming from this section. There have been a bunch of moderators in here already, and it seems that this has no end in sight. As far as I am concerned, banning is a useful tool, which is better avoided if not absolutely needed... and I believe this to be the case.
Having said this, I would like to offer the following approach to solve the issue with Master (and any other issues that you may have in your minds)... A Town Hall meeting type of thread, which will be grounds for discussion of current issues (you can see the thread here). I did this in the Hero CDMA section several months ago and everything turned out rather well since people were able to talk and discuss issues in a civilized manner.
Here are the rules:
- The thread will only remain open for discussion for a certain period of time (I did the last one for 8 hours).
- No flaming/trolling/rudeness/cursing will be allowed.
- No banning will occur.
- Irrelevant posts will be automatically deleted.
- The thread will be heavily monitored by one or more moderators.
If I get enough people agreeing to participate via this poll, I will then schedule a time.
This is will be a final resource before banning begins. I am willing to put up the time if you guys are willing to cooperate.
Let me know what you all think.
From Papa_Smurf151 (thought of this message to be more universal, so I changed a thing or two to make it fit here ),
OK u guys...I know everyone is tired of all the drama on here. I have been talking to one of the mods through pm and gave a suggestion for a town hall meeting to discuss the problems as of late. The mod agreed that he and hopefully other mods would be willing to open a thread where we can discuss these issues. There will be no banning for what is said in this meeting but with a mod present and engaging in convo the tone needs to stay clean or semi at least. Failure would result in post being deleted. There will be rules that the mods what followed but its to keep the pease.
Look this cdma community has been split for a little while now. U can feel the tention in some post. Its time to stop the flaming and the trolling. This is not just about the Master thing even though that's what sent all of this overboard.
The mods only see part of this community and its the ugly side. They are harsh cause they are misinformed about certain people and certain actions. This is our opportunity to have a united voice and share how things really are and ideas on how to remedy them
Its time to reunite as the amazing community this used to be and get back to what really matters.
Feel free to comment. Please keep it clean. The more votes in the poll the better.
The meeting would be at a set time and heavily monitored then closed once alotted time had past. Please join and enjoy.
This is not the meeting. It is just a poll to let mods know we are serious and that we can behaive.
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I think this is a great idea. I've been at XDA for some time now and i've never seen a forum get this out of hand. This will be a great opportunity for people to get things off their shoulder.

I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.

I like the concept & I'll participate if it happens, but I think jnutz is right. People are blatantly ignoring the rules simply because nothing happens to them if they don't.
People who like TeamWhiskey/Eugene/Master/[Anyone else I missed]... go into the threads of the ones they don't like/use and flame away and cause threads for an active ROM to be closed! This is insane!
I don't remember people being this rude and disrespectful of everyone else when I was looking up information for an old Windows Mobile phone or when I actually joined after I got my G1.
Maybe a combination of both approaches? Ban the people who are repeat offenders now and have the town hall meeting for the ones who aren't as big of disruptions?

We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)

As Ez said, its a more civilized method in which we can communicate openly with the Members of the fora in order to workout issues we have all witnessed. The Town Hall will be monitored by the moderators (myself included) in order to make sure we stay on topic and so that it can be of actual use for all of us. These town halls allow us to bring light onto issues users have been facing along with us moderators being able to give input and action ideas that have a general consensus. If you wish to see one that has happened before and see the outcome you can look here. As Ez told me, the previous one turned the whole forum around 180 degrees and the users in there are way better now. I look forward to this if we have one.

This is a good idea.. I've been a frequent visitor of xda since I have a G1. XDA has been my information resource for my devices (G1, mytouch 3G, mytouch slide, and Vibrant).. I have made donations also to some devs for their great work.. but I never bother to post questions or suggest solutions because of the trolling and flaming going on.. It would be very nice if everything will be put in order.. This is my first post..
I felt really bad when Eugene left XDA.. great dev.. but things are not so good..

Great Idea and ASAP
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when

Same, same...no pun intended on shame, shame...
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...

here.david said:
While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
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Click to collapse
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the interest in helping but the moderators such as myself and Egz will be watching this (if it happens) along with a few others, thanks though

jnutz said:
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
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Click to collapse
civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!

I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave. A lot of what goes on here resembles petty high school drama, take that **** to Facebook, not a development forum!

This won't solve anything. People need to realize that people who created this awesome site along with the ROMs, mods, and themes and etc. are doing this on their own free will and time, they are NOT getting paid...
People need to learn a little courtesy before anything.
/thread

almyz125 said:
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt taking down the bible would prove any worth, if anything it would harm the people that use it, and the assholes on this forum wouldn't even notice. Warnings and bans need to be given to those who violate the rules.

Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?

Yes but..........
scrizz said:
civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The punks that should be banned... ok, ban them... then what ? they change their name and are back on different name same ****......... ok then what then? ban the isp?..........that algorithm too complex to manage so, although I totally agree with you, I do not see a practical way.......... but yes, ban them anyway for good measure. Then, as a collective body we would need to shun them as well. If people get no response from the forum members, sooner or later, they get the message and move on.....

Options
I would say, let's fo the town hall, and after that maybe before banning could you kind of redirect the offenders for let's say two or three days for half an hour every login to the rules page?
If that does not work either, then i would be all up for the french revolution tactic. off with their heads!

scrizz said:
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Scrizz,
They have worked in the past even for Forums that are like the Vibrant's, look here

If it's something that has worked in the past, it's worth a try. I don't think the "Cancer" will attend but it may help the non-problem users come up with better ways to deal with problems.
It might help and it certainly can't hurt. I vote yes.

egzthunder1 said:
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotcha. I was (wrongfully) under the impression that this was a "is this a good idea" thread, so I basically answered 'no, you should enforce the rules', but it seems to be a "we want to do this because it's helped calm things down in the past, will you help us" thread.
And in answer to the question that you actually asked (rather than the question I inferred), if the timing doesn't conflict with anything in real life, I would definitely like to be a part of this discussion. The sooner it happens, the better because things are way out of hand.

Opinions: Are we too hard on Noobs?

Hey all,
Something has been rolling around in my head the past couple days, and I wanted to get some opinions.
Here's the basic notion: We might be too hard on noobs.
Now a couple of disclaimers...
1. Nothing excuses anyone from searching or doing their due diligence. I've seen more duplicate threads than I can recount, and yes it's annoying.
2. Nothing excuses anyone from etiquette. Being polite and courteous when asking for and receiving help is essential and is perfectly reasonable to expect.
That being said, here is where I think we take the same rules we expect noobs to adhere to, and break them ourselves. First of all, this community EXISTS to foster communication, education, and provide tools to enhance the products we all love. Anyone who says anything less is quite frankly selling XDA short. As such, and as cheesy as it may sound, XDA is a "beacon of hope" to those looking for help amidst the soup of lesser websites online. Before I knew anything, I knew about XDA, and slowly but surely I came to know more. But in my time here, and it seems like "more and more", I have also come to see noobs get increasingly hassled, berated, and outright knee-capped for asking duplicate questions, posting in the wrong forums, not searching for common questions, etc... Now by all means if we see a noob doing these things, TELL THEM, but do so in a manner befitting the community.
Not long ago I read a noob-ish thread, at this point I don't even remember what made it so, but I remember the reactions. The FIRST response was polite, it notified the OP of the infraction, but pointed him in the right direction with a friendly approach. The next FIVE responses were nothing short of hostile... "Learn to effing search noob, READ the damn stickies moron, Gawd another noob who doesn't know how to read!" etc... ONE guy replied rudely, and 4-5 more jumped on the bandwagon as if "Insulting Noob" was an Olympic sport and judging was imminent... each trying to 1-up the last. Personally, I was disgusted.
My point is this... as "good" as it may make some folks here to rip a noob a new one before breakfast and prove to the world just how big your e-d**k is, it does little to move us forward, and personally if I had received such a response as a noob, I doubt I would have come back. I just think maybe we need to ease off on the bashing, and bone up on our "polite education". We were all there at some point after all.

It does not matter where you go on the internet, bashing is just a part of the workings. Some take it far while others take it to the extreme.

If you see people being overly harsh on noobs then please report it. Of course a gentle suggestion that searching and reading is the way to go is not overly harsh imo but please report any insulting and downright rude behaviour to a moderator.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

Theres no excuse to be a noob these days, considering this generation grew up with the internet

natious said:
Theres no excuse to be a noob these days, considering this generation grew up with the internet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...which makes you lazy; even Google has implemented instant search because having to hit search just makes you feel like your doing to much work

There's nothing wrong with being hard on n00bs as long as it's in a constructive and polite fashion. Being rude to one just because they're repeating a question that's been asked before isn't the way to handle it though.
Question:
"How do i root my HTC XXX..."
Acceptable answer:
"This has been asked many times. Please use the Search function or have a look in the device specific forum where you'll get better information."
Unacceptable answer:
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU....this has been asked before you noob. Are you too f****n stupid to do a search??!!??11 Get off my forum you scum sucking leach..."
Hope that clarifies my point

Some of the sentiments on the "unacceptable answer" stems from frustration. I, for one, have for many months shun away from the dev sections simply because of the sheer noob overload.
Most of these peeps simply don't bother to search, and in my opinion, are just too impolite. They come in, make a new topic (first infraction), ask repeated questions (2nd) in the wrong section (3rd) in a very impolite manner (4th, and greatest) with wrong grammar and jumbled up sentences (5th, and hopefully last infraction).
If the n00b would just be POLITE and legible, and use the magic word (please), I would forgive most of the infractions and gladly point out the right thing to do. I might even do a search for them.
So it's not really a community thing that we treat new users like FNG, but here, in this hallowed grounds, I would expect that these new users show some modicum of respect towards the people who turn mundane gadgets into something awesome.
And yes, I get disproportionately angry and respond accordingly whenever I see a dev or a mod get bashed (er... if I did that before, please forgive me ) and I always appreciate their efforts, whatever it may be.

porcino said:
Hi guys, I am a noob, as I am forced to make 10 posts somewhere else before entering the development area. It is OK and it is not the main point...
I think the issue of heated discussions in various Internet forums is broader than, say, bashing or nursing the noobs. Don't you think that as soon one starts writing to a forum, they immediately get a feeling of false ownership. This causes all sorts of emotions. Silly, isn't it? The forums are supposed to be public, anonymous and impersonal.
Anyway, just my 5p. Seven more meaningless posts to go... Best wishes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OT for a second: Your post do not have to be meaningless. There is a reason we have the 10 post rule. For information how you can start to become a valuable member of the community, please see the link in my sig about the 10 post rule. Oh, and thank you for putting more then "Trying to reach my 10 posts" in this post

porcino said:
And here it comes... My post is answered with great care, and the topic is not impersonal to me any longer! Thanks to this and for taking part in a psycho experiment.
You point about the opposite of meaningless-ness is valid, actually. People like meaningless things, flattery and attention. It sits deep in us and as natural as, e.g., the olfaction...
Three more to go...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome. Due to my nature i'm perfect for taking part in psycho experiments!

I donno, maybe not hard enough... The more I get involved in the community for my phone, as well as read on XDA in general, the more I start to think some kinda test should be involved.
Tho this might sound like much, I'm starting to think that a minimum post number should be needed just to be able to view the development sections for phones (and 10 is not enough). Or something to help them get better acquainted with the process for finding info here.
Then something more (maybe a minimum thanks meter value?) to show that they have enough understanding to be able to troubleshoot their devices before actually having access to the files that may cause issues, and subsequently post about them.
I'm aware it would be hard to implement and maintain, but it would clear away a lot the "junk" that covers the forums. Plus who ever said XDA is a place for everyone and their grandmother? Some of the stuff on here boarders on illegal, and the majority is well outside what the carriers/manufacturer want us doing with these devices.
Now on a different (possibly more in tune with the OP's initial thoughts) note. Yes, I'ed have to say some people, and in an increasing number, are very harsh on "noobs." Of which none is called for... The way I handle a situation as sakai4eva outlined is largely to ignore the person, so that they get the impression that what they have posted is not worth reading. If persistant then I would explain in as few words as possible what they have done wrong and why their post is getting ignored. Bashing and/or flaming only gives them a notion that they can also post that way, which creates even more obnoxious posts/topics. It's well know and overly demonstrated in forums (and any other place ppl can freely/easily post) all over the internet - that people will be mean, harsh, aggressive, and vulgar on the internet because they are not dealing with a person face to face.

Answer to OP...No.
Sent from my ENG S-Off Sensation (Pipsqueak approves of this message)

Babydoll25 said:
Answer to OP...No.
Sent from my ENG S-Off Sensation (Pipsqueak approves of this message)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ding!
And we have a (concise) winner!

Dialogue between users and Mods...temporary thread will be temporary.

M_T_M said:
OK....after a major clean up this here thread should be back on topic.
@ OP....please carry on with maintaining this thread orginized. If don't wanna, PM and we'll change OPs.
No more tolling, please.
Cheers,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"holding "
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome

jugg1es said:
Sorry m8,but if you thought just a cleanup was what I was after then you misunderstood my reasons. It's a lot more than just a thread cleanup that's needed in OT, things have happened over the last few months that have driven good regular people away. Maybe an attitude shift is what's really needed and a closer look at why these people have stopped posting.
This is my last post in here, anyway "good luck and thanks for all the fish"
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@jugg1es
[FONT=&quot]I honestly have no idea what you're referring to here, but honestly you should send a PM to someone here you trust about your concerns. At the end of the day, we can't fix something that we don't know is a problem.
I always read and reply to PMs.
As for this thread, it's still a great thread and I would hate for it to die after all the hard work of categorizing and organizing the great work of moderators past and present, so I will take over the thread if you do not want to continue updating it or no longer feel the passion of "gold digging" if you will. Let me know or @M_T_M and we go from there.
Godspeed my friend...[/FONT]

orangekid said:
@jugg1es
[FONT=&quot]I honestly have no idea what you're referring to here, but honestly you should send a PM to someone here you trust about your concerns. At the end of the day, we can't fix something that we don't know is a problem.
I always read and reply to PMs.
As for this thread, it's still a great thread and I would hate for it to die after all the hard work of categorizing and organizing the great work of moderators past and present, so I will take over the thread if you do not want to continue updating it or no longer feel the passion of "gold digging" if you will. Let me know or @M_T_M and we go from there.
Godspeed my friend...[/FONT]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm currently chatting with M_T_M regarding this.
I would also hate to see the good things in this thread go, I also want it to continue in a decent vein. I'm gonna wait for a bit and see what happens
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome

M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

jugg1es said:
M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to see you go Glenn.

vanessaem said:
Sorry to see you go Glenn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better to walk away than get thrown out for saying something stupid regardless of how truthful I think it is
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

jugg1es said:
M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOLQUE??!!
But, but, but...u mad tho?
What ever happened to "let's talk about it" and "if you see something that requires the MC attention, report it" discussion we had?
I see your point about the post with the benchmark being deleted (not necessary IMHO) but...there's still LULZ to be had and LUL we shall, mate!!
Don't rage quit on me, man!!! You are better than this...

M_T_M said:
LOLQUE??!!
But, but, but...u mad tho?
What ever happened to "let's talk about it" and "if you see something that requires the MC attention, report it" discussion we had?
I see your point about the post with the benchmark being deleted (not necessary IMHO) but...there's still LULZ to be had and LUL we shall, mate!!
Don't rage quit on me, man!!! You are better than this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not a rage quit, it's simply a case of lost heart in the system. It doesn't work, ot gets all the 10 posters, then the first thing that happens is the dev threads full up with questions pretty much unchecked. During my lurking it seems that ot has become the home for moderation and dev threads have been left to become a mess. The rom q&a threads (which is a good idea) aren't used and the actual dev threads fill up. I'm no developer but I have become an experienced abuser of the platform, searching for anything in a thread has become a complete nightmare, search for a solution to any problem and you end up faced with hundreds of questions all asking the same thing with hundreds of different answers. OK so the gtfo and go use the search may have come across as harsh but it did force people to search(me included, I asked a fair few stupid questions) it was the harshness that forced me to learn how to use the search effectively, that effectiveness has been eroded. I know this has become a 'family friendly' forum but with the average age of people wanting to mod their devices getting lower at an alarming rate it seems that "give me nao" attitude of today's youth is being pandered to.
I came here to rid myself of sense on the saga, I found a community of people that helped by making me do, great conversation and friendship. It was an escape from the "give me nao" I have all day at work and that attitude is something I spend hours confronting and helping people do themselves. This is what xda was to me, now it's just a "ok I'll do all your searching for you and link you to the post 2 above yours".
Rage.... No, certainly not my friend.
(think I found one of your accounts on g+ and added it)
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

Ok,
I've seen the back and forth in this thread.
Now I used to be an off topic denizen, as well as the Market Place when it existed. I know exactly how it was moderated and what it "used to be like."
I know the current people who moderate this section now, and honestly they deserve more respect than this. They are not here to make YOUR life hard, or to "ruin the fun," but to get moderation done just like any other section. Moderating is thankless job, and the one thing you do that someone doesn't agree with you get to hear about in posts like these.
You might take a step back and look to see if it's not XDA that's changed so much, but maybe you have too. Now I started this thread originally, because I thought it would be humorous collection of moderation rants and closes, and I wanted to contribute to the OT section of XDA.
Now I contribute as a moderator.
You've listed the reasons why you come to XDA and OT, but what do you contribute to the community? This IS a ragequit and honestly it's a poor way to deal with things. You need to use communication to handle the issues you feel are present instead of this big dramatic reasoning for leaving.
If you are going to leave, then I guess you gotta leave. There is no one person bigger than XDA.
But instead of being upset that about what XDA isn't doing for you, you might consider how you can contribute even more to the community, and try to actually get in communication with the moderating crew, you might be surprised how approachable they are.
I am saying this not as a moderator (this is not even my section), but as an XDA community member.
I would challenge you to take more responsibility in this community, and not observe the happenings around you and decide on an apathetic exit.
You are always welcome to give new ideas, to open up Q&A threads, to help out in so many ways, but just saying "the system doesn't work" and taking your ball and going home doesn't really help, does it?
There have always been "give me answers now" people on this site and there will always be, it is up to the community as a whole to make this about personal responsibility, and if you've given up the good fight, then we will continue anyways.
The choice, however, is always yours.
If you are not going to update this thread anymore, I can have someone transfer it back to me, but I'd rather you continue if you're up for it.

orangekid said:
I know the current people who moderate this section now, and honestly they deserve more respect than this. They are not here to make YOUR life hard, or to "ruin the fun," but to get moderation done just like any other section. Moderating is thankless job, and the one thing you do that someone doesn't agree with you get to hear about in posts like these.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This made me laugh and cringe at the same time... There are maybe 3 mods in OT that deserve respect, the rest, not so much. I was raised you have to give respect to get respect and most give none so they get none in return. They won't be named because I'll undoubtedly be banned again for it.
Being a mod is a power position that many mods take advantage of, if you disagree just look at some of the posts linked in this very thread, they do the exact things that they have infracted and banned other users for! Trolling threads (in many cases unlocking a locked thread to do so) with senseless memes and degrading members with their replies in some cases, that behavior doesn't deserve respect at all. Being a mod some of you should really learn to lead by example and stop setting bad examples for other members. If you wouldn't want a "regular" member to do it, as a mod you definitely shouldn't be doing it... Not aimed at you Orangekid, just a general statement to all mods alike

flastnoles11 said:
This made me laugh and cringe at the same time... There are maybe 3 mods in OT that deserve respect, the rest, not so much. I was raised you have to give respect to get respect and most give none so they get none in return. They won't be named because I'll undoubtedly be banned again for it.
Being a mod is a power position that many mods take advantage of, if you disagree just look at some of the posts linked in this very thread, they do the exact things that they have infracted and banned other users for! Trolling threads (in many cases unlocking a locked thread to do so) with senseless memes and degrading members with their replies in some cases, that behavior doesn't deserve respect at all. Being a mod some of you should really learn to lead by example and stop setting bad examples for other members. If you wouldn't want a "regular" member to do it, as a mod you definitely shouldn't be doing it... Not aimed at you Orangekid, just a general statement to all mods alike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand completely.
I think we're on different sides of the fence on some of this. The bottom line is I know how the moderation game works and these guys bust their butts to make this the best place for mobile development, period.
Regardless, they are all open to communication and the MC is ALWAYS open as well.
At the end of the day we need to come together as a community.
It seems to be doing little good to go on and on about it here though honestly (me included), the most benefit would be to PM an MC member on this matter.
They will always listen, and you can take that to the bank.
But public ragequit does not resolve it.
That's the last I'll say on the matter, my inbox is always open too.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

orangekid said:
I understand completely.
I think we're on different sides of the fence on some of this. The bottom line is I know how the moderation game works and these guys bust their butts to make this the best place for mobile development, period.
Regardless, they are all open to communication and the MC is ALWAYS open as well.
At the end of the day we need to come together as a community.
It seems to be doing little good to go on and on about it here though honestly (me included), the most benefit would be to PM an MC member on this matter.
They will always listen, and you can take that to the bank.
But public ragequit does not resolve it.
That's the last I'll say on the matter, my inbox is always open too.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I her what you're saying, I mod on a pretty big sports forum (over 2 million members now I believe) so I get what it takes, but when mods do one thing and then ban a member for that exact same thing it makes the mods in general look pretty immature and frankly, dumb...
It would be great if everybody could come together, but until some of the mods change their "I'm right about everything, you're wrong because I'm a mod" attitude is not going to happen.
I think the biggest point people are trying to make about the OT situation as a whole is that in OT, a post doesn't even have to be reported and within the hour it's gone, where as in dev threads you can report posts and they'll still be there days later. If a little more of that attention was spent on the parts of the site THAT ACTUALLY MATTER, there would be less of this going on...
This is the only forum I've ever been a part of where there is more mod attention in an OT section than in parts of the forum that actually pertain to the existence of the site in the first place.... Not saying ot shouldn't be modded the way it is, but the rest of the site should have those same standards and no matter what any mod says, it simply isn't.
Mods should also be held to a higher standard and when they're allowed to troll threads with memes while other users get infractions for the same behavior something is horribly wrong there

Guys, OT is getting the same attention as the other forums we moderate. We don't go checking every new post, though, which is why reports are important... Obviously, if we get a report we tend to keep an eye on the thread for a bit, which isn't very hard to do with notifications.
The point is: OT is not special. Really. It gets the same amount of attention as other forums and despite what you may think, we mostly rely on reports.
If you feel an issue you've reported hasn't been resolved, then please contact the moderator who took it. It might not require an action for some reason, or it might be still an open issue... So contact the acting mod and you'll get an explanation.
Similarly, if you have an issue with a particular mod, contact him and let him know about it, politely. If you think that's of no use, there's the moderator committee as well.
Also, about the spamming of memes: we haven't been doing that as of late. It was mostly done to give some lulz for all parties involved, but you didn't like it and we did listen.

flastnoles11 said:
I her what you're saying, I mod on a pretty big sports forum (over 2 million members now I believe) so I get what it takes, but when mods do one thing and then ban a member for that exact same thing it makes the mods in general look pretty immature and frankly, dumb...
It would be great if everybody could come together, but until some of the mods change their "I'm right about everything, you're wrong because I'm a mod" attitude is not going to happen.
I think the biggest point people are trying to make about the OT situation as a whole is that in OT, a post doesn't even have to be reported and within the hour it's gone, where as in dev threads you can report posts and they'll still be there days later. If a little more of that attention was spent on the parts of the site THAT ACTUALLY MATTER, there would be less of this going on...
This is the only forum I've ever been a part of where there is more mod attention in an OT section than in parts of the forum that actually pertain to the existence of the site in the first place.... Not saying ot shouldn't be modded the way it is, but the rest of the site should have those same standards and no matter what any mod says, it simply isn't.
Mods should also be held to a higher standard and when they're allowed to troll threads with memes while other users get infractions for the same behavior something is horribly wrong there
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Lol...what are you talking about? What mod is doing something that's worth a ban?
I'm sorry to break it to you but we have way too many forums to cover to focus all of our attention here. Please come out of the OT forum every once in a while and you will see that moderating goes on elsewhere. Like I posted on another thread, OT gets away with a lot more than any other forum. So much so that some come from other forums and feel this is the place in which to break the rules and do whatever they feel like. I hope we all know that this isn't how it's supposed to be.
Ok no more memes and trolling from mods but I'm pretty sure that won't make anyone happy either. *Sigh*

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vanessaem said:
Lol...what are you talking about? What mod is doing something that's worth a ban?
I'm sorry to break it to you but we have way too many forums to cover to focus all of our attention here. Please come out of the OT forum every once in a while and you will see that moderating goes on elsewhere. Like I posted on another thread, OT gets away with a lot more than any other forum. So much so that some come from other forums and feel this is the place in which to break the rules and do whatever they feel like. I hope we all know that this isn't how it's supposed to be.
Ok no more memes and trolling from mods but I'm pretty sure that won't make anyone happy either. *Sigh*
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I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*

flastnoles11 said:
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I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*
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Ok I've done the very same thing somewhere. No one can seem to find that many posts of mine funny or trollish enough to post in this thread but somehow you found some examples...ok. Anyway, we seem to be going around in circles here. The mods are out to get you, some feel victimized, the mods are the enemy except a chosen few, xda is going down the tubes because moderators are moderating, circles and ponies.

vanessaem said:
Ok I've done the very same thing somewhere. No one can seem to find that many posts of mine funny or trollish enough to post in this thread but somehow you found some examples...ok. Anyway, we seem to be going around in circles here. The mods are out to get you, some feel victimized, the mods are the enemy except a chosen few, xda is going down the tubes because moderators are moderating, circles and ponies.
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Again nobody said anything like that, but it doesn't surprise me that you would twist everything to better suit you...
And don't act like you've never posted memes into threads (following the moderator crowd as to not feel left out I'm sure) I've seen it just like many others have, you're not the lone mod in ot that doesn't do it... Just because you're not funny enough to make this thread doesn't mean you haven't done it..

flastnoles11 said:
9
I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*
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You are correct. There have been times when we ask members to not do something and then went ahead and did it ourselves. That isn't really leading by example and we have listened to that complaint. It recently has been brought up with in our team chat and we listened to the complaint. We will no longer be spamming threads with memes. The only reason we really did it in the first place was at the request of others.
With that being said I am glad you brought this up. It is a perfect example of how if you all feel that something is out of place you guys can come to us. You didn't like us doing something that you guys were told not to do (even if it was at the request of others) and we agreed with the statement and listened to you all changing our ways. I know some of you have an unfavorable view of me, but please understand I always try to stay impartial and if any of you ever bring an issue to my attention I will do whatever is in my power to address it properly. So will the others in my team. If they don't, feel free to report the PM or contact our team leader @crachel as well.
As the others have said, from a team standpoint, the OT forum is nothing more than a very minor blimp on our radar. We have 70 other forums each with their own set of issues to deal with. To us, ot is nothing more than a forum on the list of forums we moderate. We really do not see it has any different than any other forum on XDA.
So I will ask that you please bring us any complaints you guys have before it builds up and explodes. Once people reach the point of no return generally there is no fixing the situation. It is something like that we would like to avoid and I assume so would you all. Us mods are truly here for you guys and we all know we wouldn't have xda without the members

flastnoles11 said:
Again nobody said anything like that, but it doesn't surprise me that you would twist everything to better suit you...
And don't act like you've never posted memes into threads (following the moderator crowd as to not feel left out I'm sure) I've seen it just like many others have, you're not the lone mod in ot that doesn't do it... Just because you're not funny enough to make this thread doesn't mean you haven't done it..
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Such anger. Too bad. So I posted a meme a few times. BTW...I never said anyone shouldn't post memes.
Oh boy...

mark manning said:
You are correct. There have been times when we ask members to not do something and then went ahead and did it ourselves. That isn't really leading by example and we have listened to that complaint. It recently has been brought up with in our team chat and we listened to the complaint. We will no longer be spamming threads with memes. The only reason we really did it in the first place was at the request of others.
With that being said I am glad you brought this up. It is a perfect example of how if you all feel that something is out of place you guys can come to us. You didn't like us doing something that you guys were told not to do (even if it was at the request of others) and we agreed with the statement and listened to you all changing our ways. I know some of you have an unfavorable view of me, but please understand I always try to stay impartial and if any of you ever bring an issue to my attention I will do whatever is in my power to address it properly. So will the others in my team. If they don't, feel free to report the PM or contact our team leader @crachel as well.
As the others have said, from a team standpoint, the OT forum is nothing more than a very minor blimp on our radar. We have 70 other forums each with their own set of issues to deal with. To us, ot is nothing more than a forum on the list of forums we moderate. We really do not see it has any different than any other forum on XDA.
So I will ask that you please bring us any complaints you guys have before it builds up and explodes. Once people reach the point of no return generally there is no fixing the situation. It is something like that we would like to avoid and I assume so would you all. Us mods are truly here for you guys and we all know we wouldn't have xda without the members
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Thank you for at least standing up and admitting to it instead of back pedaling like the other that decided to reply with a condescending, I'm better than you, attitude. (the exact thing I was talking about so it really got a good chuckle out of me) me and you have had words in the past, but you just earned some respect with your reply.
I honestly think it would make a difference if users didn't see mods do the exact thing they tell others not to do, maybe not much, but I believe it'll make a difference. I understand that being a mod is not a perfect science and mistakes will be made (being a mod elsewhere I know it's not the easiest thing sometimes), but honestly one of the biggest mistakes a mod can make is being above the rules they are supposed to enforce, one of them was being broken by mods regularly, seeing that change is a step in the right direction imo