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Here's the scoop, I have a rooted N1 and flashed, Froyo Vanilla AOSP 2.2 for N1, which I picked up from ChrisSoyars Twitter feed. It works wonderful, but my available storage is 152MB....is this correct?? When I bought the phone I had 181MB of available storage or something close to that. I don't have any apps installed and that is why I find this kinda odd>>>>>>I just saw that FB, Google Voice, Twitter and Google Goggles are installed, but this still doesn't look right.
So, though the N1 claims it has 512MB storage we can only use 200MB of it???
And why do I have less now than before??
Can anyone help clear this up for me....
Thank you.
You seem to be getting your jargon confused.
bane126 said:
So, though the N1 claims it has 512MB storage we can only use 200MB of it???
And why do I have less now than before??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you talking about memory or storage? The N1 shipped with 512MB of memory, of which only about 256MB was accessible. With the Froyo update you will have access to all of your 512MB of memory finally.
The 200MB you're talking about seems to be the internal storage. That will be different after updating because different OS images are different sizes. Also your internal space will vary with the size of various application caches. Nothing to worry about.
pfmiller said:
You seem to be getting your jargon confused.
Are you talking about memory or storage? The N1 shipped with 512MB of memory, of which only about 256MB was accessible. With the Froyo update you will have access to all of your 512MB of memory finally.
The 200MB you're talking about seems to be the internal storage. That will be different after updating because different OS images are different sizes. Also your internal space will vary with the size of various application caches. Nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You actually have your jargon confused
N1 shipped with 512mb RAM and 512mb ROM
The 512mb RAM is not what hes talking about. There is 512mb of storage but only some of that is available to install apps with
storage requires a type of memory. flash memory. -_-
RAM = memory
Flash = memory
As for the question, the 512mb storage is split for system files and applications. you only have that much space for applications
Yeah, flash is technically a type of memory but it's not a good idea to call it just memory without elaboration because by default "memory" refers to volatile memory.
Okay, so now that I am on Froyo I should have 512MB of memory aKa RAM available as opposed to the 256MB of RAM that Eclair was allowed to use?? And the reason I have 152MB of internal storage is because of the OS and the applications are eating into the 512MB of internal storage the phone shipped with??
pfmiller said:
Yeah, flash is technically a type of memory but it's not a good idea to call it just memory without elaboration because by default "memory" refers to volatile memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does not default to volatile memory. its all a matter of context. his context clearly indicated that he was referring to his onboard storage lol
its just that the general population doesnt care to make a distinction haha
bane126 said:
Okay, so now that I am on Froyo I should have 512MB of memory aKa RAM available as opposed to the 256MB of RAM that Eclair was allowed to use?? And the reason I have 152MB of internal storage is because of the OS and the applications are eating into the 512MB of internal storage the phone shipped with??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes your exactly right. the storage is split up into chunks. only one piece is dedicated to apps
Thank you for clearing this up.
I have a Flash application that requires ~130Mb of RAM and I want to run it on my Galaxy S
I've installed Froyo JPK with latest flash 10.1, but just before the end of startup procedure I always get the "exclamation circle" icon which is apparently the "out-of-memory" message in flash.
I have tried to free up the memory with task killers and memory boster, but can't get it above 175 Mb, which is obviously still not enough, since probably browser and other applications/services use it back before the flash application starts completely. Or might be also some limitation my browser in Galaxy S ? -> see EDIT below
On HTC Desire this same application works like a charm.
So I wonder...
Is there any way to get more free memory ? [EDIT: Yes, with "Chuck Norris mode" app killers, but i does not always help and it's lame]
Is there any way to get more than 311-322Mb RAM used for Applications ? [EDIT: Yes, when developpers will found out the way how to get less memory used for video codecs or even found the misterious 32Mb which are yet nowhere to be found]
Can we expect to this memory issue to be solved in future Froyo releases ? [probably only Samsung knows that, but for now it seems very unlikely]
EDIT: Found out that I get out-of-memory with every single application when it reaches 128Mb of RAM usage.
This is again specific to SGS. Looks like this is some internal max memory allocation size per application/VM
So here is another question:
Is there any way to increase this limit (might be android internal or dalvik VM related)?
no
no
no
sorry to say that...
flypubec said:
I have a Flash application that requires ~130Mb of RAM and I want to run it on my Galaxy S
I've installed Froyo JPK with latest flash 10.1, but just before the end of startup procedure I always get the "exclamation circle" icon which is apparently the "out-of-memory" message in flash.
I have tried to free up the memory with task killers and memory boster, but can't get it above 175 Mb, which is obviously still not enough, since probably browser and other applications/services use it back before the flash application starts completely. Or might be also some limitation my browser in Galaxy S ?
On HTC Desire this same application works like a charm.
So I wonder...
Is there any way to get more free memory ?
Is there any way to get more than 309Mb RAM used for Applications ?
Can we expect to this memory issue to be solved in future Froyo releases ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need that amount of memory you should use a computer.
Its not the phone thats the probem here. its what you try to run.
//Damian
I would personally put up money to get the RAM issue resolved.
People keep saying that 324~ MB is enough. That's not the point though. The point is that Samsung advertised 512MB. Any reasonable person would assume that, like other phones containing 512MB of RAM, that the phone would have 400+MB available for general usage. 324 MB for such a power phone is dismal. I consider Samsung's claim to be a form of false advertising. Yes, technically the phone has 512MB of RAM, but not according to the reasonable expectations of a consumer. Almost half of the stated RAM isn't usable to the end user for applications. This is a problem with the phone from the standpoint of delivering the expected value to the consumer.
Dear XDA Developer Legends,
Do you think it is possible that you will be able to free up ram that is allocated to the ram disk?
Yours,
Concerned Customers
Hm, maybe its applicable for a lawsuit?
andars05 said:
I would personally put up money to get the RAM issue resolved.
People keep saying that 324~ MB is enough. That's not the point though. The point is that Samsung advertised 512MB. Any reasonable person would assume that, like other phones containing 512MB of RAM, that the phone would have 400+MB available for general usage. 324 MB for such a power phone is dismal. I consider Samsung's claim to be a form of false advertising. Yes, technically the phone has 512MB of RAM, but not according to the reasonable expectations of a consumer. Almost half of the stated RAM isn't usable to the end user for applications. This is a problem with the phone from the standpoint of delivering the expected value to the consumer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the phone has 512MB and you can use all. But the system use some of it.
Its only user that cant read and understand how it work hat keep asking about it.
And this phone has more ram that most have. So yes it is enough of ram.
'If you try to runt 50+ all time you will and up with low memory.
But its the same on a computer. none complain about that.
Only that you can only see 3.5GB on windows and use that on a 32.bit system. Well now you can see 4GB and all people are happy.. but they still cant use it, but its looks good.
That the same with this phone.
If samsung did show 512MB and did show how much that was free, all people that complain would be happy. but it dont change a bit what thay can use.
yaocheng said:
no
no
no
sorry to say that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That make no sense
there is no reason to get less memory with the i9000 when comparable devices like the nexus one running the same OS version has 100mb+ more free ram
DamianGto said:
the phone has 512MB and you can use all. But the system use some of it.
Its only user that cant read and understand how it work hat keep asking about it.
And this phone has more ram that most have. So yes it is enough of ram.
'If you try to runt 50+ all time you will and up with low memory.
But its the same on a computer. none complain about that.
Only that you can only see 3.5GB on windows and use that on a 32.bit system. Well now you can see 4GB and all people are happy.. but they still cant use it, but its looks good.
That the same with this phone.
If samsung did show 512MB and did show how much that was free, all people that complain would be happy. but it dont change a bit what thay can use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This misses the point of my original statement. The Nexus One is advertised (along with many other phones) as having 512MB of RAM. The N1 has 380-400+MB available of RAM available for applications, as do many other phones containing 512MB of RAM.
Yes, the system does reserve some for certain system functions. Even after those functions have been reserved on other 512MB models, the vast majority is still available to the end user. This is not the case on the Galaxy S series. This is evident by the original posters comment regarding his application.
To address your Windows example: Windows 32 bit actually states that only a portion of the 4GB is available for use. I don't see in the advertisements where Samsung states "Contains 512MB -- 324MB available for actual usage"
I think most consumers, like myself, would assume that the amount of RAM advertised is directly correlated to the amount usable for applications.
Otherwise, what's the difference between a phone advertised as having 384MB and the Galaxy S? They both could have the same amount of RAM available.
andars05 said:
Windows 32 bit actually states that only a portion of the 4GB is available for use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But its not the case here.
+1 for the rest.
This is what i get if I run top command from adb from a freshly booted phone:
←[H←[JMem: 296300K used, 15048K free, 0K shrd, 6968K buff, 134720K cached
CPU: 1.3% usr 2.3% sys 0.0% nic 96.2% idle 0.0% io 0.0% irq 0.0% sirq
Load average: 0.99 1.33 0.59 1/351 3109
Wonder what this "cached" means.
Can somebody pls run this on HTC desire ?
I don't think our phone has 512mb of RAM physically available to the system. I think the phone has 512mb of RAM in total but it looks like 128mb of it is graphics RAM or something. Meaning we only have 384mb available to the system. The maximum amount of RAM I can ever get free is about 175mb so I don't think that it's reasonable that the system is using about 337mb of RAM. My desktop linux system uses less RAM than that on boot.
Isn't the memory allocation for graphics dynamic?
how often does the graphics really need all that ram?
any why aren't other devices affected by this? (doesn't the GPU on nexus or milestone for example need memory allocated?)
sionyboy said:
Do you think it is possible that you will be able to free up ram that is allocated to the ram disk?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain. Which ram disk do you mean?
Also, since it runs on linux, cant we assign some space from the internal sd (or external) to make a virtual ram disk that would be used as ram when needed? some king a paging file that we know on windows...
And if this is possible, can we assign it to video so graphism will be a little slower but app will become faster?
I think there is something we can do if we can change assignation of ram, apps, and video to make this phone way much powerful.
(just an idea...)
franklin01 said:
Also, since it runs on linux, cant we assign some space from the internal sd (or external) to make a virtual ram disk that would be used as ram when needed? some king a paging file that we know on windows...
And if this is possible, can we assign it to video so graphism will be a little slower but app will become faster?
I think there is something we can do if we can change assignation of ram, apps, and video to make this phone way much powerful.
(just an idea...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's always Compcache..that worked like a charm on the G1 and Magic.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=724960
As you can see, all other Android phones reserve some memory to the system... It's just the way it is.
the sgs kernel creates amemory blackhole, that is, it starts using memory after a certain memory address.
It does that because many things in the hardware are using fixed memory addresses to allocate their own memory which is not managed by the kernel itself and the kernel will never touch or see it.
what you call "system memory" is usually memory used and seen by the kernel, for the OS's functionality: various applications, services, daemons, kernel daemons, kernel memory itself (its not much) and some time some ramdisks.
Every phone also uses that of course, which amounts for like 80-130megs. They also often use small black holes of like a couple of megs, but that's so little that no one will notice.
The sgs makes a big blackhole. To me it's more of a design fault, but not much you can do about it I guess. It would need someone who's going to read the complete hardware sheets to bypass that, if at all possible, lol. Or samsung.
I bet they fixed the design issue in the galaxy tab and either the chip has separate dedicated memory either there's no blackhole.
Another theory why the blackhole is necessary is that there's a bug in the chip and it's messing up a portion of the memory, so this portion is left unused (blackhole'd - never seen by the kernel) for stability reasons.
i hope this gives some insight.
reference from the previously linked post:
- Galaxy S [2.1] RAM = 512 MiB | Linux = 325 MiB | Reserved = 187 MiB (with I9000XWJM2 firmware)
notice the huge black hole here (187 megs)
I used to have more than 300mb free after reboot with nexus one...
DamianGto said:
the phone has 512MB and you can use all. But the system use some of it.
Its only user that cant read and understand how it work hat keep asking about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, *we* can't use it all , because we != system. The debate is not whether or not there is 512MB of physical memory; there could be , since Samsung advertises as having 512MB, but its not all user accessible memory. We don't know for what the system is utilizing that memory, I don't think its for loading some of the core system components; otherwise we should be left with more free RAM like other devices with 512MB of RAM (i.e Nexus One). Its more likely that 188MB is used by either the GPU and other hardware or as a Ram disk.
In contrast, other phones having 512MB of RAM don't use user allocated memory for system or hardware use (at least not the same way Samsung does). They are somehow handling it differently, maybe their GPU's and Other hardware software counterparts have dedicated memory. Whatever said, at the end of the day in the user's point of view, Galaxy S DOES NOT have 512MB of RAM as what we were all led to believe . That is pure deception !!
If they knew this was the case then they should have alerted this to the users. For-example a spec sheet for Samsung Fascinates says 512MB Flash/384MB RAM they should have advertised Galaxy S like that instead of lying through their teeth.
With the D1, there basically was "no" internal storage. Your storage consisted of the external (included) MicroSDHC card and visions of APP2SD working...
With the D2, you got 8GB (?) of internal storage, yet I never saw an official way of using/addressing this storage. The phones came with a 4GB MicroSD card and moving apps meant moving them to the SD Card.
(I think the above is true [for the most part]. I don't remember seeing it any different, although I might be mistaken.)
With the D3, moto (or Android) seems to have redefined the storage area (Media Area) and has re-mounted the internal storage as "SDCARD" and any additional storage that is added is mounted as "SDCARD-EXT". So now, when you manage your apps, they are actually "moved" to the internal storage (Media Area), as opposed to the inserted SDCARD and in my opinion, saving the headache of app management, etc.
Now the question is, what is the "application storage" that the app manager is referring to? Is this a partitioned area that Android requires?
All that I know is that I've moved about 400 MB of apps into the "Media Area". I wish there were an easier way!
Yes, app storage as defined by the OS.
Just an FYI, the original Droid had 256 meg of internal storage for apps. It had no storage for downloads but when pulling an app from the Market it installed to /data/app which was a 256 meg partition.
The Droid 3 uses 2 GB of internal storage for apps and the remaining is partitioned as /sdcard (media storage). So of the 16 GB internal storage, 2 GB is for /data/app and the remaining (about 11.5 GB) is for downloads, pics, mp3s, etc...
At this point, I'm not seeing much need to move apps as the 2 GB space has been more than sufficient. It's much more than the 256 GB plus Apps2Sd allowed on the original Droid. Maybe move some of the larger games and such, but moving just to move...not finding any reasons yet.
tcrews said:
Yes, app storage as defined by the OS.
Just an FYI, the original Droid had 256 meg of internal storage for apps. It had no storage for downloads but when pulling an app from the Market it installed to /data/app which was a 256 meg partition.
The Droid 3 uses 2 GB of internal storage for apps and the remaining is partitioned as /sdcard (media storage). So of the 16 GB internal storage, 2 GB is for /data/app and the remaining (about 11.5 GB) is for downloads, pics, mp3s, etc...
At this point, I'm not seeing much need to move apps as the 2 GB space has been more than sufficient. It's much more than the 256 GB plus Apps2Sd allowed on the original Droid. Maybe move some of the larger games and such, but moving just to move...not finding any reasons yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i pretty much avoided it with the D2. anytime you reset the phone, you have to go through the list to move all of the apps anway, so it's usually a waste of time.
Just simply question guys,but I confuse about this
*swap enable/using swap partition
*using ext partition over moving apps2SD normally
Is this could be better than normal/standard SDCard?
I have Transcend 16GB Class 10 using fat32+ext4 (using link2sd)
But I felt not different with my VGen Class4 8GB
Please guys if you have experience about this,,tell whats wrong n what were I missed for
Thanks
Sent from my Spice Mi-410 using Tapatalk 2
Arya_3RDNumber said:
Just simply question guys,but I confuse about this
*swap enable/using swap partition
*using ext partition over moving apps2SD normally
Is this could be better than normal/standard SDCard?
I have Transcend 16GB Class 10 using fat32+ext4 (using link2sd)
But I felt not different with my VGen Class4 8GB
Please guys if you have experience about this,,tell whats wrong n what were I missed for
Thanks
Sent from my Spice Mi-410 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll try to answer base from what I know....
"*swap enable/using swap partition"
About this, we have to know what is swap, swap type and do we need it?
swap is the another partition which will be used as an extra memory. As we know, memory is been accessed VERY OFTEN in a process, both read and write.
On linux PC commonly we use one partition on disk drive for linux swap. On windows it's using a file as a virtual memory.
Swap is needed when the application need large memory to be used for a process and the current ram is not enough. Well there are some priority list to be followed. Ok, I'll give an example if we run a big game in an android. we have ~350MB total user memory but let say we have 50MB free memory. Most of android BIG 3D games will not exceed 300MB of memory, the game designer will look to target phone which will run it, and they presume all user don't have swap memory. But let say the app will need about 300MB of memory to run.
1. If we have 50 MB swap partition in sdcard
Android will never deplete the real ram, so let say it will keep 10MB of free ram, it will be use for the android system rom to keep running. In this situation the app will take 40MB of free ram, 50MB of swap... and what about another 210MB? Android will take it from the real ram by kill another apps (based on priority of low memory killer setting) to reallocate the ram. So for the game, the real ram will be taken about 250MB and 50MB from swap and free ram about 10MB. another 90MB of real ram used by the system and another hidden app like framework setting, messaging and others and for app cache. About 250MB ram used by game app is accessed very fast, but 50MB of swap if very slow because of access speed of sdcard is very much slower then ram.
When exiting from the game, some hidden apps still in memory. Android will run one or two another residen apps.
2. If we have 50 MB swap zram
Zram is swap partition in real ram, not sdcard. Any data written to the zram is compressed and decompressed on the fly. For 50MB zram, let say we can get about 80MB swap because of compression. the ratio depend on data been compressed.
Just like said in point 1, android will keep 10MB of free ram for the android system rom to keep running. The app will take 40MB of free ram, 80MB of swap. The real ram is 350MB - 50MB(zram) = 300MB, 290MB will be available for apps. The app will take 80MB from zram, and use 220MB from real ram. So 290 - 220 = 70MB of ram will used by android system and for app cache.
About speed of game between those 2 swap type, zram will be faster for sure because it use ram rather then sdcard. And one thing I feel necessary to let you know. Not as in PC which using HDD as storage which almost has unlimited write cycle. But we use SDCARD which has very limited write cycle. So consider using swap partition in your sdcard, even if it has very fast write/read speed. It will significantly affect your sdcard life.
When exited from the game, few hidden app still reside in memory. Android will run few another residen apps.
3. If we not use any swap
The game will take 300MB of ram, and let 40MB of ram used by android system. More apps have to be killed by android low memory killer system.
When exited from the game, only one or two hidden app still reside in memory. Android will run some more another residen apps.
It's your decision to use swap or not. The need is depend on your behave of use of this phone and the types of apps installed, such as more widgets, tools and some residen apps. Try every option, and you will get the result. The result could be different with another user, depend on behave and the apps installed.
*using ext partition over moving apps2SD normally
If you really have your internal storage depleted, let say you have installed hundreds of apps, then yes you will need app2SD or ext partition on sdcard.
The read and write speed of internal storage and sdcard will definitely win by internal storage (You have class 10 of sdcard? just test the write speed of internal storage).
ext partition is access directly while app2SD using 3rd app, so using ext partition should be faster then app2SD.
Just 1.5 cents....
Do you understand what I've talked about???? Well.... I don't!!!
I'm a noob and it cracks my skull. Great explanation though:good:
wow??!! great explanation agan master
well I understand very much after read 1000times
Thanks a lot gan,,I must little experiment to realize
Now I understand what is "ZRAM" (sorry I really noobie )
about all this case,,is ZIPALIGN also complicate?
Well... actually my explanation hasn't completed yet. I was mentioned about priority, I didn't explained it. It about low memory killer configuration and also the priority of using swap. You can Google that .
About zipalign, it related with apk files. It intended to make it faster to load. Apk file is a compressed file. But I don't have any further knowledge regarding this. May be someone can explain it.
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Can anyone help me find, what is actually swap space means??
Swap space is a reserved space on a harddrive that acts as a "extended" RAM. When the RAM memory is full the kernel move stuff from the RAM memory to the Swap partition to free up memory. The data is later stored in the Swap until it's needed again.
The same thing or similar at least on a Windows pc is pagefile.
There are some discussions if swap files should be used or not on flash based storage devices since it increase the read/write cycles to the storage device and there by would break it faster (since flash based storage devices have a maximum of read/write cycles).
lintz said:
Swap space is a reserved space on a harddrive that acts as a "extended" RAM. When the RAM memory is full the kernel move stuff from the RAM memory to the Swap partition to free up memory. The data is later stored in the Swap until it's needed again.
The same thing or similar at least on a Windows pc is pagefile.
There are some discussions if swap files should be used or not on flash based storage devices since it increase the read/write cycles to the storage device and there by would break it faster (since flash based storage devices have a maximum of read/write cycles).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow..thats a good piece of information.thanks mate +1
W/O swap
When low memory occurs kernel kill processes
With Swap
Kernel move those about to be killed process to swap space and then map them pointer with RAM so when you open that app instead of allocating new memory to psycial RAM its been read from Swap and loaded to RAM.
As mentioned many times creating swap file and/or swap partition to flash drive aka our phone memory(internal storage) is not a wise choice cause recursive read and write can damage that nodes in longer run as flash memory has limited read/write cycles.
Other choice is to make swapfile and/or partition to external mmc but as external mmmc has which could also damage mmc in longer run but it could be replaced cheap rather than internal flash memory. Issue arises with external c swapfile and/or partition is slower read and write which could degrade performance
So one for-all if swap is needed than CompCache/Zram is a wise choice which uses physical reserved RAM portion for swap. Which uses extemsive CPU to compress data and write them to swap and retrive them by decompressing and writing back to physical RAM. Which is not harmful but can use more battery and obviously its faster than swap on external mmc. Usually its faster in the beginning and slight laggy after more hours and days usage
Sent from my LG-P990 using Tapatalk 2
spica1234 said:
W/O swap
When low memory occurs kernel kill processes
With Swap
Kernel move those about to be killed process to swap space and then map them pointer with RAM so when you open that app instead of allocating new memory to psycial RAM its been read from Swap and loaded to RAM.
As mentioned many times creating swap file and/or swap partition to flash drive aka our phone memory(internal storage) is not a wise choice cause recursive read and write can damage that nodes in longer run as flash memory has limited read/write cycles.
Other choice is to make swapfile and/or partition to external mmc but as external mmmc has which could also damage mmc in longer run but it could be replaced cheap rather than internal flash memory. Issue arises with external c swapfile and/or partition is slower read and write which could degrade performance
So one for-all if swap is needed than CompCache/Zram is a wise choice which uses physical reserved RAM portion for swap. Which uses extemsive CPU to compress data and write them to swap and retrive them by decompressing and writing back to physical RAM. Which is not harmful but can use more battery and obviously its faster than swap on external mmc. Usually its faster in the beginning and slight laggy after more hours and days usage
Sent from my LG-P990 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yh...this is actually what Iam looking for..thank you Spica it helped me a lot...So which is more harm less? swapfile,ZRam or CompCache?
basimsherif3 said:
yh...this is actually what Iam looking for..thank you Spica it helped me a lot...So which is more harm less? swapfile,ZRam or CompCache?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compcache or zram which is fastest amongst swap
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So in cm7, if compcache/zram is disabled, will it use swap?
aldyu said:
So in cm7, if compcache/zram is disabled, will it use swap?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No untill and unless you have created swapfile and/or partition with an init.d startup script
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