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Froyo FRF85B Battery Life Quirks

I don't know if I am the only one seeing this, but when I had Eclair, I had crap battery life, to the tune of 10 hours or so. (Granted this may not be crap for Nexus One but it is crap based off past phones I have had.) I installed FRF85B last night and discovered some weird glitches.
First off, when it was in my car dock, it wasn't charging yet the battery life kept dropping, I powered off the device, and powered it back on 10 minutes later (still in the dock) and no change stayed at 91%, still wouldn't charge. I then powered it off, took it out of the dock, plugged in the car charger cable directly and powered on my N1, when it turned on, it said I had 100% battery life. I then plugged it back into the car dock, and voila it started charging.
Secondly, originally when I had unplugged my N1 this morning I used it for about an hour at 5AM and it dropped 2% I plugged it back in to top it off expecting the same crap battery life from Eclair, yet so far, my phone has been fully topped off (from the car dock) for the past 40 minutes and I've made about 20 minutes of phone calls on it, yet it still is reporting 100%. So either Froyo can't properly report battery life, or it has the potential to have absurd battery life. Anyone else experiencing anything like this?

First off - you still didn't search this forum, so you're still thinking that an overcharging protection that doesn't allow you to charge unless you drop below 91%, is a quirk. It's not.
Second, wiping battery stats and making battery calibration procedure ONCE will give you a good starting point to measure something.

Jack_R1 said:
First off - you still didn't search this forum, so you're still thinking that an overcharging protection that doesn't allow you to charge unless you drop below 91%, is a quirk. It's not.
Second, wiping battery stats and making battery calibration procedure ONCE will give you a good starting point to measure something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The quirk isn't that it wouldn't let me charge that way, the issue was, my battery reported 91% yet when I rebooted the device with the charger directly plugged into it, it immediately showed 100%. So pretty much over the course of 30 seconds I gained 9% battery life.
I wiped my device to factory settings before upgrading to Froyo, and after as well, since my device is not rooted, my understanding is I cannot wipe my battery calibration log.
I did drain my battery fully after upgrading to froyo last night and did a full charge as well.

What you're describing looks like the statistics of the battery is "lying" a bit. I believe it can be thrown a bit off by trying to charge it when it's in 91-100% range, but I don't know the exact way it works, so I can't say much about it.
Indeed, if you're not rooted, wiping battery stats is not an option. Several times of full charge and long discharge (you don't need to go below 20%, to prevent harming the battery) are helpful in correcting the statistics.
If you get a chance to try, please repeat this again (having the phone at >90%, turning it off, plugging it into the charger and turning it back on). If it shows "Charged" again - it might be a bug worth reporting.

Jack_R1 said:
What you're describing looks like the statistics of the battery is "lying" a bit. I believe it can be thrown a bit off by trying to charge it when it's in 91-100% range, but I don't know the exact way it works, so I can't say much about it.
Indeed, if you're not rooted, wiping battery stats is not an option. Several times of full charge and long discharge (you don't need to go below 20%, to prevent harming the battery) are helpful in correcting the statistics.
If you get a chance to try, please repeat this again (having the phone at >90%, turning it off, plugging it into the charger and turning it back on). If it shows "Charged" again - it might be a bug worth reporting.
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Click to collapse
I'll have to try it again tomorrow morning, first see if it happens under the same circumstances and go from there. One thing I do remember is the widget I was using "Battery Left" reported that at 91% I had 4100 mAh left in it, which was interesting, and when it went back to 100% it had 4120 mAh which makes me think the OS wasn't actually reading the voltage and thought it was just draining the battery instead.
EDIT: Just realised I had my wall charger with me, battery was at 90% figured I would try, real quick to attempt to replicate the problem, I was unable to, with a direct battery connection, but it could be due to a voltage issue or be related to why plugging it in directly to the car charger resolved the issue. My gut feeling is, it has to do with the dock itself and the pins it uses.

my battery often is charging and it hits 93% and immediately jumps right to 100%. it skips the last 7% or so. i think what is happening is you just finally experienced this issue, which many of us have already posted about in battery threads, but it just happens to coincide with froyo so you are thinking its new and related. the nexus ever once in a while battery meter just gets thrown off and will jump up to 100% because it really was full, just had to catch up the meter. you really should pay attention to the voltage more than percentage, using battery life widget. i know my battery is fully charged at 4.172 volts. and sometimes it hits that but still only shows 94%, so it adjusts itself in one fell swoop.

The issue is I did an extra full charge about an hour ago so I can make it till midnight and it went through all the numbers from 89-100 with no issue
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Addendum: Also it seems to be voltage is not that good of a decider of how much my charge is. Before Froyo, until I dropped below 94% I was always above 4 Volts, now I drop below 4 Volts at 96%.

So this morning I was able to replicate the problem, only it was outside of the car dock, I was able to get this problem to reoccur with the wall charger. I unplugged it from power, used it a little bit and then topped it off for the day, it was at 96%. I saw the green light go on, and thought nothing of it, 20 minutes later I went back to it and it was still at 96% and showed that the battery was fully charged.
I checked the Battery Left widget and it was saying the battery was fully charged even though it said 96% left also. I did make a crappy video uploaded to youtube from my backflip to show as well what I am talking about.

AFAIK, The green LED will light when you're anywhere above 90%. It's not a function of charge being complete. Check it.
Also, if you plugged it in with 96% - this is the behavior to be expected, since the phone won't start charging unless it has below 90% to begin with, and it'll show "Charged" - because it's not charging (to prevent overcharge).
Again, fail to see any problem in what you're describing.

Jack_R1 said:
AFAIK, The green LED will light when you're anywhere above 90%. It's not a function of charge being complete. Check it.
Also, if you plugged it in with 96% - this is the behavior to be expected, since the phone won't start charging unless it has below 90% to begin with, and it'll show "Charged" - because it's not charging (to prevent overcharge).
Again, fail to see any problem in what you're describing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet my phone has always been able to charge when above 90% before froyo. This behavior is new to froyo for me at least.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

It means that you've never paid attention to that until now. It's working this way since the phone was out (with stock Eclair) and if I'm not mistaken - it's not controlled by OS at all.

I did pay attention to such actually because of the fact that I had been getting piss poor battery life. This has never happened before. In the morning I would use the device a little then top it off because I noticed that works give better battery life.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Well, you had a buggy phone that has now corrected itself. Welcome to the way it was supposed to work from the beginning.
Topping off the battery at 90%+ contributes to battery degradation - heating from overcharging. So you were actually damaging your battery.

CurrentWidget to ensure fully charged battery

So most people should have heard about currentwidget by now, most people talk about it and use it to see what battery drain occurs during standby mode or airplane mode.
Now I'm sure most know this but incase you didn't, currentwidget helps to ensure your battery is fully charged as well. This is good for people that complain about their battery dropping quickly after a full charge.
You can use currentwidget to monitor your charge, when the battery says its 100% and led is green, currentwidget still shows power going to the battery in form of "ma". I noticed my battery said it was charged and eventho at 100%, currentwidget still showed "ma" is being delivered to the battery . After two hours only it showed 0ma, now I'm sure that means that eventho my phone said its charged, it wasn't fully charged until 0ma were displayed in currentwidget. Since I noticed that, I've been charging my battery "fully" and did notice my battery stayed much longer in the 90-100% aisle when being unplugged.
So if you feel ur battery drops too quickly from a full charge, use this widget to help monitor your charge.

yep, tnx for the tip, im useing clarus battery and its do the same - and i like the widigt so...

the current widget always shows some value of mA . how do we know when the battery is really full ?

Well with me after 1hour at 100%, it shows 0ma. That's when I know the battery is completely full and reached its maximum capacity.

I don't think waiting for the battery to get to the 0mA level is good for the battery performance. Usually the green LED comes on when the widget shows 50mA.
A high-charge concentration for a long time in a Li-Ion battery is bad for the battery. Thats why mobile phones have a little buffer to stop the entire capacity to be full, and try to lose the first part of the full charge as fast as possible.

Since i use some RC Helicopter with li-po/li-ion that both have the same way to produce energy, I have learned how to use this kind of battery and how to ensure a good battery life/durability.
There is no reason to worry about the battery if you follow those few recommendation (given by a battery producer):
-Your battery has to be charged with a current of 1C max (1C mean 1230mA for a 1230mAh capacity).
-Your battery voltage must not be over 4250mV. If you go over, you may damage the battery and risk random explosion/fire. In normal use, it's better to not go over 4200mV.
If you charge the battery with your phone, you will never be able to go over 4200mV because the charge stop automatically before.
-Your battery must not be under 3300mV. Same risk as above. In normal use, it is better to not go under 3450-3500mV to ensure a good battery durability (numbers of cycle charge/decharge). I think the phone show 0% at near of 3450mV, but never check this cause i never wait my phone to be as close to the death.
-Your battery has to be drain at a current of 10C max, i.e for desire HD , 12.30A (1230mAh x 10).
impossible to reach that current with your smartphone so no worries about burning your cpu with heavy bench.
Whatever you do respecting this will not be harmful for your battery.

Is charging my phone killing the battery?

I always leave my phone on the charger over night. I hadn't even thought about it until today, but I was reading a thread and it got me thinking that my short battery life may be because I charge over night. Could this be true?
Phone: Samsung Captivate
ROM: Serendipity 6.2
Kernel: Suckerpunch #56
Overclocked to 1.2GHz
Smooth as buttah =]

good question..
well if you are like me, I only charge when I get home and more times than not I am going to bed. So I really don't feel like waking up just to take it off the charger and then let it sit draining battery while I go back to bed. I just leave it till I am up and ready to leave for the day. With my Cappy it last only about 12 hours anyway since it was new so I am not sure leaving it charging over night is that bad of a thing. I am however interested to know the scoop of how this might effect the overall life of the battery.

I don't think it's hurting battery life. On other threads with people asking why unplugging often shows between 95 - 100% charge even if the phone was left on the charger a long time. The answer given was that the charging software will purposely float between these ranges to prevent overcharging. So I think it's okay. And I've pretty much always left my phones charging all night - not just the Cappy - and never noticed any degredation in battery life or longevity.

When your phone is being used (not charging), li-ion batteries carries the - current to the + current, and when you are charging the phone, a external source (an outlet; your charger) applies a higher voltage than the battery operates at, but the same polarity, forcing the current to turn around and pass through the opposite direction (+ to -, instead of - to + like above).
Saying that, each "cell" in the battery has a "voltage limit"[per cell], when that limit is reached, the battery stops charging. Most cell-phone / PDA Li-Ion batteries stop charging at 2.7-3V. And of course, cells also have a inner clock, but this isn't exactly a new concept. All electrical sources have internal resistances, which build up over time, and it reduces the maximum capacity of each Cell, which in turn reduces the batteries overall capacity.
The battery won't kill itself, we're smarter than that. To put this for bed once and for all, it wouldn't matter if you were using the Li-ion battery or not; even if they sit on a shelf unused, internal resistances come with age.
So no, it won't kill your battery. The only things that can speed up the death of your battery is heat. My estimate, is our batteries will lose around 15-20% Maximum Capacity / YR. It's pretty much the average for cell phones.

KreacherComfort said:
I always leave my phone on the charger over night. I hadn't even thought about it until today, but I was reading a thread and it got me thinking that my short battery life may be because I charge over night. Could this be true?
Phone: Samsung Captivate
ROM: Serendipity 6.2
Kernel: Suckerpunch #56
Overclocked to 1.2GHz
Smooth as buttah =]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always put it on charge when I sleep at night like 11/12, and pull it out for a second or two when my first alarm comes up (~1 hour before I wake up) and put it back on charge immediately to top up, and pull it out when I am out of bed (~8). Been doing this since I got the phone. And I still have ~3.5 hours display time (with active transfer the whole time) and ~1 hour talk time, with ~18 hours standby.
In short, all our cell phones cut off charge when they are full. So it shouldn't matter.
What kills battery is heat. So keep it charged in an open area. If u feel the phone hot after charge, try taking off its case, if any. Keep the battery cool, and u should be good, even if u leave ur phone on charger all night.

Awesome, thanks for the help everybody. However, I heard something about charging overnight while undervolted killing the phone... anyone know about this?
Phone: Samsung Captivate
ROM: Serendipity 6.2
Kernel: Suckerpunch #56
Overclocked to 1.2GHz
Smooth as buttah =]

Phone Died at 50% Power.

Here I was, just using BlinkFeed, doing a bit of web browsing... I didn't have the battery's state in my mind, as I saw a half-full icon on the top right. Suddenly, beep, scrolly animation, cutoff. What? I rebooted the phone while tethered to power after waiting for the blinking orange LED to glow steady, and opened my task manager app, which also tracks battery life. It had died at around 50%. I've read other threads of people's battery things being ill-calibrated and missing 10-20%... but 50%? Really?
But then again, I haven't normally been charging the device fully. The same task manager reports 100% power being 4.3 volts, and I've read that 4.3 volts on a li-poly chemistry reduces its useful life by 50% when compared to 4.2 volts, so I've typically been charging to 80-85%. But I've had this happen several times, and I do charge to 100% after it does happen. I wouldn't think that 5-10 incomplete charge cycles like this would be enough to throw the gauge off so drastically.
This, in addition to the perpetual-suiciding problem my phone has had since the second-to-most-recent minor OTA Sprint update...

Wipe battery stats?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda premium

flyboy21141 said:
Here I was, just using BlinkFeed, doing a bit of web browsing... I didn't have the battery's state in my mind, as I saw a half-full icon on the top right. Suddenly, beep, scrolly animation, cutoff. What? I rebooted the phone while tethered to power after waiting for the blinking orange LED to glow steady, and opened my task manager app, which also tracks battery life. It had died at around 50%. I've read other threads of people's battery things being ill-calibrated and missing 10-20%... but 50%? Really?
But then again, I haven't normally been charging the device fully. The same task manager reports 100% power being 4.3 volts, and I've read that 4.3 volts on a li-poly chemistry reduces its useful life by 50% when compared to 4.2 volts, so I've typically been charging to 80-85%. But I've had this happen several times, and I do charge to 100% after it does happen. I wouldn't think that 5-10 incomplete charge cycles like this would be enough to throw the gauge off so drastically.
This, in addition to the perpetual-suiciding problem my phone has had since the second-to-most-recent minor OTA Sprint update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The battery stats have nothing to do with battery life. They are just statistics used to diagnose. Lithium ion batteries also do not have a memory and don't really need calibrating. The type of issue you are having stems from one of two things; Bad charger or bad batter. Bad batter would most likely be something straight from the mfr. Bad charger would be obvious. Try using the standard HTC charger in a wall outlet only for a few days or a week and see if it happens again. Sometimes this could be a one time thing meaning what I call a "bad charge." It will go away after a "good charge." Just eliminate variables by using the same charger in the wall every time and charge for the same amount of time and if the problem goes away in a week then you have your answer : )
Btw i'm a long time Sprint tech and I specialize in battery life. Just in case you need educated advice.

After the phone-death that I captured above, I charged the device to 100%, and then left it to drain until death again. It lasted about two days with very light use, dying when it reported 10%, again with zero warning other than the ~15% low battery indication. I know that deep-cycling these batteries isn't healthy for them, but it seems to me that the cycle helped a bit.
However, I do still feel concern about the reported full-charge voltage, ~4.3 volts. Does such a voltage not severely reduce the number of cycles the battery can go through in its lifetime? Also, what is supposed to be the cutoff voltage for this battery chemistry? I thought it could go down to ~3.0 volts? My phone seems to be cutting off at a reported 3.5 volts.
That, and my perpetual-suiciding problem. Though, I'm about to encounter a change of scenery that will take me downtown, so I'll hold off on complaining more about that until I see whether or not the signal strength influences that.

[Q] Just bought my Moto X. Question about the first time charge.

So, the salesperson told me to fully use the current charge on the phone and then told me to charge it for 6 hours straight.
Now the 30% battery it had lasted for quite a while I fully discharged it, it turned off on its own.
Now it's been charging for 3 hours and it's already full. Should I leave it for the full 6 hours? or can I use it now?
I'm a bit anxious but I can wait if its better for the phone.
Thanks :laugh:

You're gonna get different answers with no scientific backing.
So here's the first: just do an extra 45 mins to an hour after it reaches 100%.
If you click the link in my sig and scroll to the bottom of that post you'll see my battery life which, is pretty decent.

Thanks
scorpion667 said:
You're gonna get different answers with no scientific backing.
So here's the first: just do an extra 45 mins to an hour after it reaches 100%.
If you click the link in my sig and scroll to the bottom of that post you'll see my battery life which, is pretty decent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man

This is sheer non sense. Once the phone reaches 100 percent, the kernel cuts off the charging . What use would it be by charging it for another 45 hrs?

DaRkRhiNe said:
This is sheer non sense. Once the phone reaches 100 percent, the kernel cuts off the charging . What use would it be by charging it for another 45 hrs?
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Click to collapse
I second this. Charging batteries had specific charging instructions years ago, that no longer holds true. Just charge the phone and use it. it's not that big a deal.

It's just for calibrating the battery.
Let me just get this out of the way: most of the time it doesn't make a difference.
The only time it could (not always) make a difference is one of the following scenarios:
-phone sat for a long time while turned off (i.e before you purchase it)
-you hooked up your phone to the charger many times throughout one day and didn't allow it to hit 98-100% before you unplugged.
The battery has a chip built in [most lithium ion batteries have this because they are A) explosive and B) can kill you] which is responsable for a few things:
-"guessing" your current battery percentage based on the minimum and maximum recorded voltage value. For example let's assume a phone with a 5v battery shuts off at 3v. When that battery reaches 4v it will display 50% battery left.
-deciding what the shutoff voltage is. What I mean by this is let's say for example when your 5v battery reaches 3v at the end of the day, the chip decides it's time to shut off the phone and prompt you to charge it back to 5v
-constantly reading the the voltage in order to use that data to perform the decisions listed above
The voltage sensors in phones are, well, pretty bad due to the inherent space and power limitations. The voltage values swing back and forth between different values that are (sometimes) close to the actual value the battery is at. So the battery chip has to calculate an average based on all these voltage values. It then uses that data to do it's job, which is shutting down your phone when it needs to as well as display battery percentage.
So by leaving the phone in for a little longer after 100% once in a while, all you're doing is allowing the battery chip to collect more voltage readings in order to calculate the average more accurately. You're just doing it for the sake of sample size.
Realistically unless your battery is not calibrated, it doesn't really make a difference. But a phone that just came out of a sealed box is likely to need calibration depending on the manufacture date, or how long it "sat" for.

DaRkRhiNe said:
This is sheer non sense. Once the phone reaches 100 percent, the kernel cuts off the charging . What use would it be by charging it for another 45 hrs?
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Click to collapse
It may cut off charging..
But on my X (Dev for Verizon, stock and rooted), even after reaching 100%, the battery symbol still continues to show the "lightning bolt"/charging symbol. If I leave it connected to my Anker Astro 3, it continues to draw power until I unplug it.
@MrEndless, I agree with DaRkRhiNe and scorpion667. You're never going to get a straight answer.
Me, I ran mine down until the phone shut itself off, then charged it up to 100% and left it go over night and took it off the charger in the morning.
Once every few weeks, i do the same. Run it down until it shuts off and then put it on the charger and let it go until its been at 100% for a while. I never really say "xx minutes" or "xx hours" after 100%. It just depends on how long before I have to leave the house.