So I am in fact running the 900mhz kernel right now, and the CM6 kernel on my Droid is running at around 1ghz with lowered voltages (hand tuned). I can't help but wonder, however, if doing so is safe for the future of the device? The manufacturer obviously knew what voltages and frequencies were most stable and safe for the longevity of the processor--and they likely spent a long time, with expert developers, working on getting the most speed and battery life out of the processor.
Who are we to suddenly decide that it can run faster and on lower voltages? No offense to the hard work put into the screamer kernel, as I am using it myself, but ever since the slow and painful decay of my Nvidia 8600GTS due to lowered voltages from the PSU over time, I've felt iffy about doing the same to devices that lack any cooling mechanisms.
So I'm curious: What risks do we incur by running an overclocked kernel? How can we detect the onset of long-term damage?
The main risk is damage to the CPU(electromigration if overvolting), but its hit or miss, depending on the quality of your particular chip. Undervolting can help minimize electromigration.
In general, overclocking will shorten the life of the unit - but by how much is difficult to say. I had a desktop PC that I ran overclocked for over 8 years with no problems and its still works today - a lesser chip might have been damaged in a year or less. If your CPU is marginal to begin with, it could fail in a short amount of time - days or weeks.
There really isn't any way to tell if its being damaged until its too late, but heat is a good indicator. If your unit feels excessively warm, then its life is probably being reduced - but it may be reduced from 20 years to 10, or from 10 years to 5 by which time the unit is obsolete anyway.
A close examination of the manufacturers data sheet would be in order to get a better idea of the life expectancy of the chip with the MTBF(Mean Time Before Failure) parameter in particular. Thats if this information is even available - some manufacturers do not publish it.
Like Jack - i have overclocked for years. I will say this. I have had Intel, Via, and AMD cpus, and not one has EVER failed from overclocking (and i took an AMD opteron from 1.8 to 2.8Ghz, for 3 years straight).
Honestly, the only real world risk you face, is if you run a CPU beyond its overclock limits. If your system (any system in general) is unstable, and you dont adjust it, you risk damage. Otherwise, you are fine.
vapor63 said:
So I am in fact running the 900mhz kernel right now, and the CM6 kernel on my Droid is running at around 1ghz with lowered voltages (hand tuned). I can't help but wonder, however, if doing so is safe for the future of the device? The manufacturer obviously knew what voltages and frequencies were most stable and safe for the longevity of the processor--and they likely spent a long time, with expert developers, working on getting the most speed and battery life out of the processor.
Who are we to suddenly decide that it can run faster and on lower voltages? No offense to the hard work put into the screamer kernel, as I am using it myself, but ever since the slow and painful decay of my Nvidia 8600GTS due to lowered voltages from the PSU over time, I've felt iffy about doing the same to devices that lack any cooling mechanisms.
So I'm curious: What risks do we incur by running an overclocked kernel? How can we detect the onset of long-term damage?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overclocking itself wont shorten the life at all. The extra heat is what can cause damage but I don't think you'll be anywhere near the edge of the thermal envelope as these nooks just don't get very hot. Over-volting will also shorten the life some, but I can tell you based on experience as a semiconductor reliability engineer that if your cpu dies due to a minor over volt or heat from overclocking that it was going to die anyway. Electromigration will take many years. What will kill it is heat/cool cycles, and an overvolt and/or overclock will make it hotter and increase the temperature delta on a given heat/cool cycle. All of these chips go through Burn in, which is a high temperature overvolted test to weed out infant mortality chips, so they've already seen a much higher stress cycle than can be done to them via firmware when installed in a nook.
No offense, but who cares, lol. If it lasts 2 years I will be happy. I havent kept a cell phone longer since my first nokia brick phone. Besides, I'm sure by that time it will be sereverly outdated and in need of replacing anyway.
JackOnan said:
The main risk is damage to the CPU(electromigration if overvolting), but its hit or miss, depending on the quality of your particular chip. Undervolting can help minimize electromigration.
In general, overclocking will shorten the life of the unit - but by how much is difficult to say. I had a desktop PC that I ran overclocked for over 8 years with no problems and its still works today - a lesser chip might have been damaged in a year or less. If your CPU is marginal to begin with, it could fail in a short amount of time - days or weeks.
There really isn't any way to tell if its being damaged until its too late, but heat is a good indicator. If your unit feels excessively warm, then its life is probably being reduced - but it may be reduced from 20 years to 10, or from 10 years to 5 by which time the unit is obsolete anyway.
A close examination of the manufacturers data sheet would be in order to get a better idea of the life expectancy of the chip with the MTBF(Mean Time Before Failure) parameter in particular. Thats if this information is even available - some manufacturers do not publish it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Extra heat is generally what kills ICs faster when overclocking, which is why if you don't/can't/aren't able to undervolt you need good cooling... no choice with the NC though as it's got to be undervolted to OC as we've no idea at all what the thermal budget of that package is, but I'd imagine that they're probably right on the edge to begin with even at 800MHz.
Some of my prior tablet I could feel warming up in the summer, harder to tell now with winter but my gTablet seems to get a bit warm at times when stressed...
From my experience in many years of CPU overclocking in computers, overclocking does not generally cause damage. Upping the voltage, and in turn the temperatures as well, can definitely damage the unit.
If you run into issues simply from overclocking they will likely just be instability, but no damage is likely to become from it. That is unless you are upping the voltage.
There are certainly many variables as well, and no two systems will be exactly the same.
As far as make sure that it is safe, I wouldn't push it to far, and if you do, it will not be stable. Saying the B&N chose the best or most stable frequency is somewhat silly. Just like we know full well that AMD and Intel have massive overclocking headroom as well.
Overclocking should be fine. I've been doing this on PCs since 1995/96 era. Never had one fail on me. As long as their is proper cooling or voltages are not too high, there is no issue. The key is to increase the CPU multiplier when you can, as opposed to voltage... but the tolerance of the hardware is pretty good.
No need to worry.
As for the manufacturers, they do the same thing. The buy a vanilla processor and depending on what they need on the market, the bump the speed. This allows them to buy one chip instead of ordering many types...
nootered said:
From my experience in many years of CPU overclocking in computers, overclocking does not generally cause damage. Upping the voltage, and in turn the temperatures as well, can definitely damage the unit.
If you run into issues simply from overclocking they will likely just be instability, but no damage is likely to become from it. That is unless you are upping the voltage.
There are certainly many variables as well, and no two systems will be exactly the same.
As far as make sure that it is safe, I wouldn't push it to far, and if you do, it will not be stable. Saying the B&N chose the best or most stable frequency is somewhat silly. Just like we know full well that AMD and Intel have massive overclocking headroom as well.
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Click to collapse
No. The 3621 was just left at AFAICT the "as sold" max clock for that particular SoC, which is probably as much a means of product differentiation was using the SGX530 was instead of the 540...
My guess would be that it can probably perform in the same range as the 3630, but additionally it might have had lower thermal specs listed which would also need to be accounted... but you're probably OCing usually doesn't harm anything, but if you're worried I'd keep an eye on the temp sensor every once in a while... (Used to OC my Palm IIIx all of the time, actually underclocked it as well when I was using it for reading...)
I see that the stable 1GHz and 1.1GHz kernels slightly overvolt(to 3630 values) so it would run a bit warmer... doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone yet, but I wonder if anyone's OCing one where it's actually even remotely something like warm ATM...
My Galaxy S just died on me after 8 months. Coincidentally, I had just overclocked it to run at 1.2GHz and unvervolted it at about -50mV across, just a week before it died.
Would this have killed the phone? It died when charging and not when in use. I also noticed that the temp was kinda warm as well (not sure if this is the normal raised temp during charging).
For that matter, I'm also not sure if it was the processor that died or some other component on the board. There is no signs of life at all......
I did notice even before rooting, the operating temperatures can go as high as about 58degC and the phone would shutdown at times at this range. (temp obtained using a system monitoring app)
What is the usual operating temps for phones? Or should i ask, what is the max operaing temps for phones? Did I get a lemon to begin with?
Thanks
bobzdar said:
Overclocking itself wont shorten the life at all. The extra heat is what can cause damage but I don't think you'll be anywhere near the edge of the thermal envelope as these nooks just don't get very hot. Over-volting will also shorten the life some, but I can tell you based on experience as a semiconductor reliability engineer that if your cpu dies due to a minor over volt or heat from overclocking that it was going to die anyway. Electromigration will take many years. What will kill it is heat/cool cycles, and an overvolt and/or overclock will make it hotter and increase the temperature delta on a given heat/cool cycle. All of these chips go through Burn in, which is a high temperature overvolted test to weed out infant mortality chips, so they've already seen a much higher stress cycle than can be done to them via firmware when installed in a nook.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The concern with OCs is mainly a heat issue, but even then as long as you stay within the thermal limits of the chip, you'll be fine. I remember once finding my moms K6-2 heat sink so clogged with dust that the fan was doing nothing. The system crashed from time to time, but once I cleaned it out, it ran just fine again. Not the best recent example, but I do know that the A8 is designed to hit faster clocks than 800, so running at 900-925 isn't a big issue. Also, unless you do nothing but games, your A8 isn't running at 900 most of the time--it just goes there when itneeds the power, then drops to 300 or 600 (which really saves battery). If you like, there is a few decent monitoring apps/Widgets you can run that show speed and temp. Most of the time, I don't think the A8 even reaches 40C, which is just a hot day in the summer where I live.
I had to check, but one such app is called Temp+CPU V2. Its free in the Market.
bobzdar said:
All of these chips go through Burn in, which is a high temperature overvolted test to weed out infant mortality chips, so they've already seen a much higher stress cycle than can be done to them via firmware when installed in a nook.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for bringing this up. The OMAP processor in the Nook was run through a Burnin temperature of over 120C (~250F). The only temp sensor we've got on the Nook is for the battery, so we should assume a 10C - 20C delta between the battery temp and the processor temp. Therefore, if you see a battery temp of 100C - 110C (>200F), your processor is about to experience catastrophic failure.
It's very likely that setup (late mode) timing violations will cause your Nook to lock up or decode instructions incorrectly (causing force closes) well before your processor takes heat damage. The unfortunate circumstance is when the Nook locks up while its unattended, leading to vicious overheating; this has happened to me once. When I returned to the Nook after a night's sleep, it was locked up, and upon rebooting, the battery temperature was 120F. At that temperature it's the battery's lifetime you worry about, not the processor.
higher power, shorter battery life, timing violation
The power consumed by the NC is proportional to volt squared times the frequency. By overclocking, with mostly likely an increase in voltage, you will have to charge the battery more often, hence shorter battery life. (The number of recharge cycles in a LiIon battery is fixed.)
Another unknown is the timing requirements of the NC. Chips need a setup and hold time. At 800Mhz, all timing constraints were met. May not be the case at 1ghz or 1.1 ghz.
Having said this, I do overclock my PC but I don't overclock the NC (I don't want to recharge every day.)
Related
Ok..everybody knows about batterstatus and its amazing overclocking abilities. With this known, my question is, what is a good temperature range with the batterystatus temp monitor...are there certain temperatures that we need to become cautious with? ...I personally am at 260MHz and usually range anywhere from 32 to 80 degrees celsius.
Also, I personally am from Houston, TX...a VERY hot region. Could this also have an effect? What temperatures would be getting dangerous for the wing to be at?
Is it possible to fry a wing? lol =o
Thanx
Although our wings have a default speed of 400, under clocking too 260 would save you a lot of battery power in the long run.
Now if your talking the T-Mobile wing your in the wrong forum Try the Herald one I believe it is.
Now temperatures are trickey, this is a phone and has several different things to pay attention to. Theres not an active cooling system to dissipate the heat your creating. If you think about what temperatures most PC's start to have issues at and use that as a guage you should be okay. The materials and battery could start being affected if you take it too high.
I would personally get worried if it hit the 60c stage. However your best option is to look at what temperature it is with the stock speed on a hot day after some heavy usage to heat everything up. With that in mind then you can guage how high to overclock your phone.
Hello there,
I am having HUGE overheating problems. Last week I was having issues with random restarts and generally slow operating, but I realized that this is only when the temps are high. Ive seen my temps on my SetCPU widget get over 100 degrees Farenheit! Basically, I cannot use the phone at all when it is charging, and have to repeatedly put it in front of a fan or near an AC vent to keep using it throughout the day. I recently bought an extended battery. Could this be the issue?
Is this hardware or software related?
Any help is greatly appreciate, please let me know if I left out info
Eugene
Ok a hundred degrees for your phone isn't that bad.. But you need to make sure that you stop overclocking it when you charge it. Charging is the main thing that heat up that big ol battery on the back. Plus this combo with overclocking hurts. I have the same problem sometimes.
Hoped this helped a bit
sent from superfroyo dream
Slow the CPU down! You are using a community ROM that runs the CPU at 528 MHz. There is a REASON why the OEM runs the CPU slower than that!
And as for your huge battery... yes, that can make heat. Try with a NORMAL battery and see if the problem goes away.
on SetCpu I have been using the recommended settings, which I believe was 576Mhz maximum. Should I just not run SetCPU at all? (charging nor not)
Like lbcoder said. He knows what he's talking about. You can use setcpu still. But its meant to only run at those speeds only short bursts. So don't have it clocked at 576mhz all the time. You might want to cut it back to 528mhz anyways. But definitly the combo of the fat battery overclocked and charging will heat your phone up big time. I have the same problem as you sometimes. You just have to get used to switching cpu down in your settings. When your not using your phone and need speed.
sent from superfroyo dream
Lo N Slo said:
on SetCpu I have been using the recommended settings, which I believe was 576Mhz maximum. Should I just not run SetCPU at all? (charging nor not)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
576? That's gotta tell you something about the program... the CPU's maximum is only 528!
Mine runs at 614mhz max... don't have any issues yet... the problem is that it may damage other electronic parts of the phone, not the cpu itself. anyway it isn't an expensive piece of hardware... it;s interesting to see how far it can go
How does your phone heats up when running stability test cpu/gpu?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.into.stability
It would be nice to post your results here so i could compare them. Im suspecting that there is something wrong with mine from when it was returned from warranty repair.
That ****tards broke network reception when repairing power button, then led flash and gps. (Britex s.r.o., Kladno, Czech republic)
So here are mine
CPU OC 1420
charging
7 minutes of cpu/gpu stress test 51°C
Sent from my Optimus 2X using XDA
I think you dont know what you're talking about. You mean battery temp?
Obviously they didn't break your phone, what the hell are they gonna do to make your battery heat up, stab it with scissors? Short out cells?
Sent from my Optimus 2X using Tapatalk
Mungulz said:
I think you dont know what you're talking about. You mean battery temp?
Obviously they didn't break your phone, what the hell are they gonna do to make your battery heat up, stab it with scissors? Short out cells?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Mungulz,
I have trouble understanding you... sometimes you are very helpful, other times it seems you just want to bully people.
Maybe some anger management classes?
It doesn't seem that obvious to me that they didn't "break" the phone... damaged tracks (increased resistance) can lead to more heat due to a little something called Joule effect, I believe.
Also, afaik, our phone uses its case as a cooler. I don't know if it is supposed to have some thermal paste somewhere for thermal connectivity to the frame, but, if it is, openning it up for repair and forgetting to check/reapply paste can also lead to overheating.
So... for me it's not that obvious. Can you elaborate on why you think it's obvious?
I know what im talking about but that shows only battery temperature. just for reference. If its overheating its logical that battery temperature will be also higher because of heat cannot be diverted to the cooler parts of the phone.
I have disassebled the phone and the pcbs were badly alligned not to mention loosy heatsinks.
Sorry for my bad english.
Sent from my Optimus 2X using XDA
xtrustkillx said:
I have disassebled the phone and the pcbs were badly alligned not to mention loosy heatsinks.
Sorry for my bad english.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it obvious for you now Mungulz that the repair shop might very well break a phone?
xtrustkillx, your english is great I don't understand what you are apologizing for!
@Lars: Or there are 2 persons using Mungulz' account.
@trustkill: be careful with those stability apps mate. I guess you already know that they increase the wear and tear on your CPU and GPU by subjecting it to threshold load right?
About the temperature, it's a difficult one to compare. I have my battery temperature at 1 to 2 degrees above room temperature when idle. (Therefore 33C from a 31C room.) But it goes as high as 42C if I charge it and not point a fan or AC to the phone. Thing is, I notice that my phone rarely goes above 41. I believe that our boards have an initial level of fail-safe where it lowers down the clock speed when the phone reaches 40C.
LarsPT said:
So... for me it's not that obvious. Can you elaborate on why you think it's obvious?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just struggle to see how a poorly installed heatsink (assuming LG messed it up) can attribute to higher battery temperatures. in my mind this would increase CPU temperatures dramatically to the point of thermal shutdown, while the heatsink is not absobing as much heat as it should.
In theory the battery would be cooler if the heatsink wasn't functioning, as the CPU would shut down. I think this is just a case of far too much load on the phone. Really though if you put 7 watts into a phone this size it's going to get hot regardless of how good the heatsink is.
Furthermore, benchmarking while AC charging is always going to produce high battery temperatures, no matter if your phone was built on a Friday or Wednesday.
To me this thread just seemed like an opportunity to rant about LG or the repair centre, with no real goal.
Sent from my Optimus 2X using Tapatalk
@salisbury: I've seen in vadonka's thread (if I'm not mistaken) that you're right. It's actually something controlled by the kernel. There are three "charging modes". If the phone is cool, 1A (providing you're not in USB mode), after a certain temperature it switches to USB mode (that's 0.5A, either you're charging from an USB port or nor) and after a certain critical temperature it shuts off charging completely. These temperatures can be tweaked at kernel level.
@Mungulz: It seems you switched into your polite mode now. Much more pleasant and informative, thanks. I do not know how the phone is built, but, depending on how far the CPU is from the battery, are you saying it is impossible that having very high CPU temperatures will affect the battery's temp? I mean... in my head this is how I'm thinking... the phone uses its case as a heat sink (and there could be some very small heat sinks inside it), if these are not properly assembled, anything that is in contact with the CPU/GPU/whatever heat source will get hotter with it.
I can agree with you, if you really insist, that it is improbable that a battery in a poorly assembled phone will have temperature problems... but I don't think it's obvious! Even if it was there's no need to talk down on someone that suggested it as a possibility.
LarsPT said:
@Mungulz: It seems you switched into your polite mode now. Much more pleasant and informative, thanks. I do not know how the phone is built, but, depending on how far the CPU is from the battery, are you saying it is impossible that having very high CPU temperatures will affect the battery's temp? I mean... in my head this is how I'm thinking... the phone uses its case as a heat sink (and there could be some very small heat sinks inside it), if these are not properly assembled, anything that is in contact with the CPU/GPU/whatever heat source will get hotter with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the heatsinks job is to divert temperatures away from the CPU.
If the heatsink wasn't installed properly, then the CPU would get extremely hot while the heatsink isn't getting as hot as it should be. Which would make the battery cooler than it normally would be. Just the phone would shut down within minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=koLJ4BU9tgc
Swedroids test
It throttles at 36 C and shuts down at 59 to 60 C.
They should increase the throttle to 45 C and when 45 C is reached make the throttle more aggressive would be a better solution.
What do you guys think?
taxas said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=koLJ4BU9tgc
Swedroids test
It throttles at 36 C and shuts down at 59 to 60 C.
They should increase the throttle to 45 C and when 45 C is reached make the throttle more aggressive would be a better solution.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it gets to hot people get the yellowing... I would rather run cooler and not worry about it.
Is this throttling effecting real world usage or just benchmarks? Not being sarcastic, asking a question.
sent via xda premium with nexus 7 while waiting for my shiny new Nexus 4!
Richieboy67 said:
If it gets to hot people get the yellowing... I would rather run cooler and not worry about it.
Is this throttling effecting real world usage or just benchmarks? Not being sarcastic, asking a question.
sent via xda premium with nexus 7 while waiting for my shiny new Nexus 4!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i dont know, i dont care about benchmarks, just thought about informing what i found.
And increasing the throttle level and making it more aggressive later on was just my opinion.
I would like to see a comparison with the iPhone 5 and Galaxy S III on what temperatures they shut down.
taxas said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=koLJ4BU9tgc
Swedroids test
It throttles at 36 C and shuts down at 59 to 60 C.
They should increase the throttle to 45 C and when 45 C is reached make the throttle more aggressive would be a better solution.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the video was pretty painful to watch! lol WHO on earth would run a phone to death like that?? Hope they have an extended warranty... For real though, I would like to see them bump up the throttling temp a lil but in the real world most users will NEVER experience something like that because that app is meant to run your phone into the ground! I hate that they even make benchmarking apps cause it makes me competitive but I have found that the N4 is FAST as hell so I don't need anything else to prove that to me... Good vid though for the info but lets all step back into reality...
I'm thinking the S4Pro is rated to a higher temperature, and the thermal shutdown is really more for battery health than processor health... Regardless, 11 minutes at 100% load with no real cooling system...
Does the Galaxy S3 also shut down at the same temperature?
12 minutes with the CPU pegged at 100% on all cores with no cooling is impressive, IMHO. Yes it clocked down to 1150MHz but that's plenty fine.
No real world task will come close to pushing the processor that far. I doubt even gaming will task the cores so much that the phone throttles them back.
A lot of modern laptops won't run 12 minutes of solid prime95 before clocking down. This c2d 2.8GHz laptop I'm typing on now will clock down to 800MHz after 15-20 minutes of prime95...but it doesn't throttle at all when doing real world stuff, even compiling or encoding etc.
shojus said:
I think that the video was pretty painful to watch! lol WHO on earth would run a phone to death like that?? Hope they have an extended warranty... For real though, I would like to see them bump up the throttling temp a lil but in the real world most users will NEVER experience something like that because that app is meant to run your phone into the ground! I hate that they even make benchmarking apps cause it makes me competitive but I have found that the N4 is FAST as hell so I don't need anything else to prove that to me... Good vid though for the info but lets all step back into reality...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion the throttle should engage at 43-45c because at 36c its idle temperatures when the phone i just on stand by.
Ok I fear that's a real problem. What if I want to play a graphic intensive game for a few hours? Expecially on a hot summer day?
Could the phone shut down?
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda app-developers app
So much for Qualcomm's butter test
In the video description you can find:
"The reason as to why we published this video is because we've never experienced temperatures reaching ~60 degrees C before, nor have we ever experienced a phone shutting itself down after just 12 minutes of continuous full load, nor have we ever experienced such aggressive thermal throttling. It pretty much throttles down instantaneously from 1.5GHz to 1.2 or 1.1GHz during heavy load.
All temperature readings are presented in Celcius.
The Nexus 4 seems to have some issues with heat development. At least if we are to believe our findings. There might of course be a possibility that our unit is faulty. We are however not alone according to the Google Android issue tracker: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.into.stability&feature=.... A google search on the matter will also render lots of user reports concerning heat issues.
In comparison the quad core Galaxy S3 (3G) battery sensor reports ~41 degrees after 13 minutes of full load with the screen set to 100% brightness. It does however lower the CPU frequency to 800MHz at times, but mostly run at 1.4GHz. Our IR meter reports about ~34 degrees if we go ahead and measure the hottest spot on the back of the phone (area around the camera lens)."
For me, this is a no-go. I wouldn't buy a phone that shuts down after a few minutes of processor stress testing. Can somebody tell if the same happens with his N4?
St4hli said:
In the video description you can find:
"The reason as to why we published this video is because we've never experienced temperatures reaching ~60 degrees C before, nor have we ever experienced a phone shutting itself down after just 12 minutes of continuous full load, nor have we ever experienced such aggressive thermal throttling. It pretty much throttles down instantaneously from 1.5GHz to 1.2 or 1.1GHz during heavy load.
All temperature readings are presented in Celcius.
The Nexus 4 seems to have some issues with heat development. At least if we are to believe our findings. There might of course be a possibility that our unit is faulty. We are however not alone according to the Google Android issue tracker: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.into.stability&feature=.... A google search on the matter will also render lots of user reports concerning heat issues.
In comparison the quad core Galaxy S3 (3G) battery sensor reports ~41 degrees after 13 minutes of full load with the screen set to 100% brightness. It does however lower the CPU frequency to 800MHz at times, but mostly run at 1.4GHz. Our IR meter reports about ~34 degrees if we go ahead and measure the hottest spot on the back of the phone (area around the camera lens)."
For me, this is a no-go. I wouldn't buy a phone that shuts down after a few minutes of processor stress testing. Can somebody tell if the same happens with his N4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing is that if you search the web for this problem, you get a lot of hits about people have thermal issues. I hope it just is a defective unit but it seems it is not the case. The S4 pro seems to be generating to much heat and requires too much power. That's why it empty's the 2100 mha battery a bit faster compared to other devices.
Maybe the S4 pro is more suitable for tablets and not phones.
St4hli said:
Ok I fear that's a real problem. What if I want to play a graphic intensive game for a few hours? Expecially on a hot summer day?
Could the phone shut down?
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very few applications will use 4 cores. Hell, most don't even use 2 cores by default. So the chances of you maxing out all 4 cores in routine usage isn't very likely. The extra cores typically benefit smartphones when one process is utilizing a core already, a different process just gets thrown over to a different core so it doesn't have to wait for CPU cycles. Most smartphone use is "burst-y" so this helps end-users out quite a bit.
99.9 % its not the S4 Pro`s fault, just the lame battery from LG. I mean WTF after 15 secs it clocks down !!!!
Yeah, thats weird. But I could live with it, expecially when the phone runs buttersmooth. But if the phone shuts down after a few minutes of processor intensive tasks that's a big problem. I know that barely any app is using 4 cores simultanously, but what happens if you stress-test only one core? Does the phone also shut down?
This doesnt seem that bad, you're stressing it pretty hard which wont ever be done in real word conditions, for example take intel burn test, most people find this stresses the chip to temperatures 15C+ over any possible real word tests/usage.
You say the SGS3 throttles to 800Mhz at some points well thats pretty poor is it not? Clock for clock the s4 pro is superior and so clocking in over 300Mhz faster when throttled its pretty good id say. If you're comparing the S4 vs the S4 pro (US SGS3) then its pretty hard to say the battery sucks when its got more power! Of course it will run hotter haha.
I think they could put back the throttling limits a bit though, I think it maybe a battery issue more than anything though so maybe its a fault... Please test it by stressing a high end game for an hour or so tracking the temps and clock speed, that would be a much better indication.
edit: Seen your reply before me, It wont shut down like that in the real world! If you stress test only one core I can assure you that it will run MUCH cooler, you are essentially testing 2x the amount in the s4 Pro than you are in the dual core varient, in these stress tests it works pretty much 110% each core, in the realworld there will be idle times and switching between cores handling different threads, lots of variences that should mean it would be ALOT cooler all the time even if using all 4.
St4hli said:
Yeah, thats weird. But I could live with it, expecially when the phone runs buttersmooth. But if the phone shuts down after a few minutes of processor intensive tasks that's a big problem. I know that barely any app is using 4 cores simultanously, but what happens if you stress-test only one core? Does the phone also shut down?
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1 core likely won't generate as much heat, and not to mention the whole point of the cores is to distribute load and operate at max efficiency rather than less cores at max.
I understand that some people have issue with the throttling, but until people report that they can't play x and y after z minutes it is a non issue. It may have to do with the glass, maybe LG battery. It is possible the throttle is there to preserve the higher recharge cycles LG Chem batteries have.
Unless it actually ruins an app experience, on stock rom and kernel, it is not an issue. If someone would rather pay 400 more to boost their bench by 5% that's up to them.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Mhmm, I guess it won't be a problem in real world usage. Nevertheless it's quite weird that the phone heats up that much AND THEN SHUTS DOWN, expecially in comparison to other phones like the SGS3, where this problem doesn't occur.
But yes, I didn't hear any complaints about critical-heat-shutdowns in real world usage, so maybe I'm just overreacting. But at the moment it's winter in USA and Europe, so let's see how the phone performs in summer heat
My old HTC Desire often overheats and shuts down on hot summer days when I'm using GPS or playing games, so I just hope my next phone won't have this problem
St4hli said:
Mhmm, I guess it won't be a problem in real world usage. Nevertheless it's quite weird that the phone heats up that much AND THEN SHUTS DOWN, expecially in comparison to other phones like the SGS3, where this problem doesn't occur.
But yes, I didn't hear any complaints about critical-heat-shutdowns in real world usage, so maybe I'm just overreacting. But at the moment it's winter in USA and Europe, so let's see how the phone performs in summer heat
My old HTC Desire often overheats on hot summer days when I'm using GPS or playing games, so I just hope my next phone won't have this problem
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Mine has been shutting down due to overheating at least once a day. I've just exchanged it so will see how that is.
Worryingly, I will often be doing nothing other than web browsing or similar which should not stress the CPU
Hi guys,
What is safe Tegra 3 temperature? I tried SetCPU stability test for 20 minutes at 1.6GHz and System Tuner Pro showed 72C. I'm correct, 80C is bad? I also suppose SetCPU stability test is more aggressive, than games or any other apps.
I user to run v10a firmware which often ran to 80° with no ill effects. I would be concerned if it rose any higher. The phone is built to shut down at 90° so I wouldn't worry too much, it can handle the heat
Sent from my smart frying pan (Tegra 3)
i had my device shut down twice while running werewolf with no skin throttle. i put the shutdown temp at 80 degs celsius. this happened after an hour of gaming. so yeah, it could probably run even more. i think default nvidia's shutdown temp is 120(!) degs celsius. not sure where i read it though.
I have throttle set to 75 and shutdown to 85. This is more than enough for me.
I wouldn't let my device go anywhere higher than 80C... It might be able to handle more than 80, but I'm not willing to risk it
Winudert said:
Hi guys,
What is safe Tegra 3 temperature? I tried SetCPU stability test for 20 minutes at 1.6GHz and System Tuner Pro showed 72C. I'm correct, 80C is bad? I also suppose SetCPU stability test is more aggressive, than games or any other apps.
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I saw it from a kernel's changelog (don't remember the kernel's name), it said in the changelog "Tegra 3 default safe temperature : 85 C"
but I wouldn't recommend going above 80 C, it would reduce lifespan of your phone, not even mentioning the battery.Since battery is pretty close to tegra 3 chip, it gets effected by the heat chip generates
The main problem with high temperatures is not the chipset-temperature but the battery shouldn't get too hot. Li-batteries will be destroyed on high temperature. It's around 50 °C.
Did you hear about bloated or exploded phone batteries? This were cases of high temperatures.
blumenkasten said:
The main problem with high temperatures is not the chipset-temperature but the battery shouldn't get too hot. Li-batteries will be destroyed on high temperature. It's around 50 °C.
Did you hear about bloated or exploded phone batteries? This were cases of high temperatures.
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Strange thing. Hot in the SoC area (top), not at all where battery is.
Winudert said:
Strange thing. Hot in the SoC area (top), not at all where battery is.
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Because it is actually the SoC what gets hot. Look at temperatures in Trickster mod (or any similar app).
Better be careful, be careful burned out CPU
Mr.Fong said:
Better be careful, be careful burned out CPU
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It's just one thing - Tegra 3 chip is awful. I watched a lot of review of Optimus 4X HD, but not in one was talked about awesome hot, sadly. Though Tegra 5 are looking very nice now with Kepler GPU, but I'm furious on nVidia and when I will buy phone next year, it not will be powered by nVidia chip. I'm crossing fingers on next gen Intel Atom SoC.