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So I am in fact running the 900mhz kernel right now, and the CM6 kernel on my Droid is running at around 1ghz with lowered voltages (hand tuned). I can't help but wonder, however, if doing so is safe for the future of the device? The manufacturer obviously knew what voltages and frequencies were most stable and safe for the longevity of the processor--and they likely spent a long time, with expert developers, working on getting the most speed and battery life out of the processor.
Who are we to suddenly decide that it can run faster and on lower voltages? No offense to the hard work put into the screamer kernel, as I am using it myself, but ever since the slow and painful decay of my Nvidia 8600GTS due to lowered voltages from the PSU over time, I've felt iffy about doing the same to devices that lack any cooling mechanisms.
So I'm curious: What risks do we incur by running an overclocked kernel? How can we detect the onset of long-term damage?
The main risk is damage to the CPU(electromigration if overvolting), but its hit or miss, depending on the quality of your particular chip. Undervolting can help minimize electromigration.
In general, overclocking will shorten the life of the unit - but by how much is difficult to say. I had a desktop PC that I ran overclocked for over 8 years with no problems and its still works today - a lesser chip might have been damaged in a year or less. If your CPU is marginal to begin with, it could fail in a short amount of time - days or weeks.
There really isn't any way to tell if its being damaged until its too late, but heat is a good indicator. If your unit feels excessively warm, then its life is probably being reduced - but it may be reduced from 20 years to 10, or from 10 years to 5 by which time the unit is obsolete anyway.
A close examination of the manufacturers data sheet would be in order to get a better idea of the life expectancy of the chip with the MTBF(Mean Time Before Failure) parameter in particular. Thats if this information is even available - some manufacturers do not publish it.
Like Jack - i have overclocked for years. I will say this. I have had Intel, Via, and AMD cpus, and not one has EVER failed from overclocking (and i took an AMD opteron from 1.8 to 2.8Ghz, for 3 years straight).
Honestly, the only real world risk you face, is if you run a CPU beyond its overclock limits. If your system (any system in general) is unstable, and you dont adjust it, you risk damage. Otherwise, you are fine.
vapor63 said:
So I am in fact running the 900mhz kernel right now, and the CM6 kernel on my Droid is running at around 1ghz with lowered voltages (hand tuned). I can't help but wonder, however, if doing so is safe for the future of the device? The manufacturer obviously knew what voltages and frequencies were most stable and safe for the longevity of the processor--and they likely spent a long time, with expert developers, working on getting the most speed and battery life out of the processor.
Who are we to suddenly decide that it can run faster and on lower voltages? No offense to the hard work put into the screamer kernel, as I am using it myself, but ever since the slow and painful decay of my Nvidia 8600GTS due to lowered voltages from the PSU over time, I've felt iffy about doing the same to devices that lack any cooling mechanisms.
So I'm curious: What risks do we incur by running an overclocked kernel? How can we detect the onset of long-term damage?
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Click to collapse
Overclocking itself wont shorten the life at all. The extra heat is what can cause damage but I don't think you'll be anywhere near the edge of the thermal envelope as these nooks just don't get very hot. Over-volting will also shorten the life some, but I can tell you based on experience as a semiconductor reliability engineer that if your cpu dies due to a minor over volt or heat from overclocking that it was going to die anyway. Electromigration will take many years. What will kill it is heat/cool cycles, and an overvolt and/or overclock will make it hotter and increase the temperature delta on a given heat/cool cycle. All of these chips go through Burn in, which is a high temperature overvolted test to weed out infant mortality chips, so they've already seen a much higher stress cycle than can be done to them via firmware when installed in a nook.
No offense, but who cares, lol. If it lasts 2 years I will be happy. I havent kept a cell phone longer since my first nokia brick phone. Besides, I'm sure by that time it will be sereverly outdated and in need of replacing anyway.
JackOnan said:
The main risk is damage to the CPU(electromigration if overvolting), but its hit or miss, depending on the quality of your particular chip. Undervolting can help minimize electromigration.
In general, overclocking will shorten the life of the unit - but by how much is difficult to say. I had a desktop PC that I ran overclocked for over 8 years with no problems and its still works today - a lesser chip might have been damaged in a year or less. If your CPU is marginal to begin with, it could fail in a short amount of time - days or weeks.
There really isn't any way to tell if its being damaged until its too late, but heat is a good indicator. If your unit feels excessively warm, then its life is probably being reduced - but it may be reduced from 20 years to 10, or from 10 years to 5 by which time the unit is obsolete anyway.
A close examination of the manufacturers data sheet would be in order to get a better idea of the life expectancy of the chip with the MTBF(Mean Time Before Failure) parameter in particular. Thats if this information is even available - some manufacturers do not publish it.
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Extra heat is generally what kills ICs faster when overclocking, which is why if you don't/can't/aren't able to undervolt you need good cooling... no choice with the NC though as it's got to be undervolted to OC as we've no idea at all what the thermal budget of that package is, but I'd imagine that they're probably right on the edge to begin with even at 800MHz.
Some of my prior tablet I could feel warming up in the summer, harder to tell now with winter but my gTablet seems to get a bit warm at times when stressed...
From my experience in many years of CPU overclocking in computers, overclocking does not generally cause damage. Upping the voltage, and in turn the temperatures as well, can definitely damage the unit.
If you run into issues simply from overclocking they will likely just be instability, but no damage is likely to become from it. That is unless you are upping the voltage.
There are certainly many variables as well, and no two systems will be exactly the same.
As far as make sure that it is safe, I wouldn't push it to far, and if you do, it will not be stable. Saying the B&N chose the best or most stable frequency is somewhat silly. Just like we know full well that AMD and Intel have massive overclocking headroom as well.
Overclocking should be fine. I've been doing this on PCs since 1995/96 era. Never had one fail on me. As long as their is proper cooling or voltages are not too high, there is no issue. The key is to increase the CPU multiplier when you can, as opposed to voltage... but the tolerance of the hardware is pretty good.
No need to worry.
As for the manufacturers, they do the same thing. The buy a vanilla processor and depending on what they need on the market, the bump the speed. This allows them to buy one chip instead of ordering many types...
nootered said:
From my experience in many years of CPU overclocking in computers, overclocking does not generally cause damage. Upping the voltage, and in turn the temperatures as well, can definitely damage the unit.
If you run into issues simply from overclocking they will likely just be instability, but no damage is likely to become from it. That is unless you are upping the voltage.
There are certainly many variables as well, and no two systems will be exactly the same.
As far as make sure that it is safe, I wouldn't push it to far, and if you do, it will not be stable. Saying the B&N chose the best or most stable frequency is somewhat silly. Just like we know full well that AMD and Intel have massive overclocking headroom as well.
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No. The 3621 was just left at AFAICT the "as sold" max clock for that particular SoC, which is probably as much a means of product differentiation was using the SGX530 was instead of the 540...
My guess would be that it can probably perform in the same range as the 3630, but additionally it might have had lower thermal specs listed which would also need to be accounted... but you're probably OCing usually doesn't harm anything, but if you're worried I'd keep an eye on the temp sensor every once in a while... (Used to OC my Palm IIIx all of the time, actually underclocked it as well when I was using it for reading...)
I see that the stable 1GHz and 1.1GHz kernels slightly overvolt(to 3630 values) so it would run a bit warmer... doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone yet, but I wonder if anyone's OCing one where it's actually even remotely something like warm ATM...
My Galaxy S just died on me after 8 months. Coincidentally, I had just overclocked it to run at 1.2GHz and unvervolted it at about -50mV across, just a week before it died.
Would this have killed the phone? It died when charging and not when in use. I also noticed that the temp was kinda warm as well (not sure if this is the normal raised temp during charging).
For that matter, I'm also not sure if it was the processor that died or some other component on the board. There is no signs of life at all......
I did notice even before rooting, the operating temperatures can go as high as about 58degC and the phone would shutdown at times at this range. (temp obtained using a system monitoring app)
What is the usual operating temps for phones? Or should i ask, what is the max operaing temps for phones? Did I get a lemon to begin with?
Thanks
bobzdar said:
Overclocking itself wont shorten the life at all. The extra heat is what can cause damage but I don't think you'll be anywhere near the edge of the thermal envelope as these nooks just don't get very hot. Over-volting will also shorten the life some, but I can tell you based on experience as a semiconductor reliability engineer that if your cpu dies due to a minor over volt or heat from overclocking that it was going to die anyway. Electromigration will take many years. What will kill it is heat/cool cycles, and an overvolt and/or overclock will make it hotter and increase the temperature delta on a given heat/cool cycle. All of these chips go through Burn in, which is a high temperature overvolted test to weed out infant mortality chips, so they've already seen a much higher stress cycle than can be done to them via firmware when installed in a nook.
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The concern with OCs is mainly a heat issue, but even then as long as you stay within the thermal limits of the chip, you'll be fine. I remember once finding my moms K6-2 heat sink so clogged with dust that the fan was doing nothing. The system crashed from time to time, but once I cleaned it out, it ran just fine again. Not the best recent example, but I do know that the A8 is designed to hit faster clocks than 800, so running at 900-925 isn't a big issue. Also, unless you do nothing but games, your A8 isn't running at 900 most of the time--it just goes there when itneeds the power, then drops to 300 or 600 (which really saves battery). If you like, there is a few decent monitoring apps/Widgets you can run that show speed and temp. Most of the time, I don't think the A8 even reaches 40C, which is just a hot day in the summer where I live.
I had to check, but one such app is called Temp+CPU V2. Its free in the Market.
bobzdar said:
All of these chips go through Burn in, which is a high temperature overvolted test to weed out infant mortality chips, so they've already seen a much higher stress cycle than can be done to them via firmware when installed in a nook.
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Thanks for bringing this up. The OMAP processor in the Nook was run through a Burnin temperature of over 120C (~250F). The only temp sensor we've got on the Nook is for the battery, so we should assume a 10C - 20C delta between the battery temp and the processor temp. Therefore, if you see a battery temp of 100C - 110C (>200F), your processor is about to experience catastrophic failure.
It's very likely that setup (late mode) timing violations will cause your Nook to lock up or decode instructions incorrectly (causing force closes) well before your processor takes heat damage. The unfortunate circumstance is when the Nook locks up while its unattended, leading to vicious overheating; this has happened to me once. When I returned to the Nook after a night's sleep, it was locked up, and upon rebooting, the battery temperature was 120F. At that temperature it's the battery's lifetime you worry about, not the processor.
higher power, shorter battery life, timing violation
The power consumed by the NC is proportional to volt squared times the frequency. By overclocking, with mostly likely an increase in voltage, you will have to charge the battery more often, hence shorter battery life. (The number of recharge cycles in a LiIon battery is fixed.)
Another unknown is the timing requirements of the NC. Chips need a setup and hold time. At 800Mhz, all timing constraints were met. May not be the case at 1ghz or 1.1 ghz.
Having said this, I do overclock my PC but I don't overclock the NC (I don't want to recharge every day.)
EDIT:
Do the following at you're own risk.Even though it works for me and there is no logical reason it wouldn't work for you.
My wife got a new L7 couple of Weeks back and i have been paying with it every now and again.
As the battery on the OB is experiencing bad drain lately i thought to look for replacement. Tried other battery with no luck and than last night thought what the hell i will try the L7's battery.
Hell yeah ! Fits nicely ( but the OB battery had to be filled a bit to fit in the L7 , just in the right corner about 1mm on 1mm).
Now to the nice part. As it is a new battery the self drain is gone.
And it is 1700mAh
Although i will have to return it to my wife as she is gonna be in a shock as her phone is gonna be dead before tonight The big question for me is is the L9 battery the same size and would it fit as well .
I forgot to mention with the original battery the current drain is about 1% every 2 minutes .
But this is due to me using the phone a LOT. At least one and often two charges a day for year and a half so long gone the 300 charges which are supposed to retain 90% of the original charge.
can you take a picture of your p970 backcover battery?
Here goes the pics, sorry about the delay.
P.s. Pics are from the old trusty s8500 aka wave. L7 camera is crap
So L7 battery is 3.8 volt our p970 battery is 3.7 volt.Cant it be any damage on main board?
Wouldn't think so. As both mobiles work fine with swapped batteries
And during charging voltage is way higher anyway. Remember 5 volt charger
That's a nice find! Good job! Might buy a genuine L7 battery...
ogremount said:
My wife got a new L7 couple of Weeks back and i have been paying with it every now and again.
As the battery on the OB is experiencing bad drain lately i thought to look for replacement. Tried other battery with no luck and than last night thought what the hell i will try the L7's battery.
Hell yeah ! Fits nicely ( but the OB battery had to be filled a bit to fit in the L7 , just in the right corner about 1mm on 1mm).
Now to the nice part. As it is a new battery the self drain is gone.
And it is 1700mAh
Although i will have to return it to my wife as she is gonna be in a shock as her phone is gonna be dead before tonight The big question for me is is the L9 battery the same size and would it fit as well .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice info, thank you!
I am glad to share
But as for the L9 looks like different shape and contacts positions
Thanks gor info:thumbup:
sorry for my bad English
So is it safe despite the voltage difference?
So far so good. One day use and it is great. 4 hours + screen time compared to 2.5 (again worth repeating my original battery is degraded)
I even find data connection working better, but that might as well be fruit of my imagination.
Best part is my wife hasn't caught up yet .
George Jetson said:
So L7 battery is 3.8 volt our p970 battery is 3.7 volt.Cant it be any damage on main board?
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Yes. Don't use it. Just because something fits doesn't means it is supposed to work. For instance I am pretty sure if I try I can fit my phone in my mouth. Is that good? NO!
You won't notice it short term but long term it will bite you and Lg can refuse warranty if it's damaged due to incorrect use.
xonar_ said:
Yes. Don't use it. Just because something fits doesn't means it is supposed to work. For instance I am pretty sure if I try I can fit my phone in my mouth. Is that good? NO!
You won't notice it short term but long term it will bite you and Lg can refuse warranty if it's damaged due to incorrect use.
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Click to collapse
super correct , if this was the deal lg simply would have included it at least in the models of today , but the main board will suffer on long terms of use :good:
Actually my neighbour is using razor xxx batery in his phone and that's half volt higher than his original battery.
The problem for the main board is not the voltage itself but the incoherent amperage and power consistence, and this battery is lg made so complies to their standard.
Again remember that the phone runs ok on charger which happens to be 4.8 volts without battery inserted.
*First post edited*
ogremount said:
Actually my neighbour is using razor xxx batery in his phone and that's half volt higher than his original battery.
The problem for the main board is not the voltage itself but the incoherent amperage and power consistence, and this battery is lg made so complies to their standard.
Again remember that the phone runs ok on charger without battery inserted.
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Click to collapse
Of course it's not the voltage itself, but the increased voltage causes increase current and that increases heat output and that does damage your phone.
Try this yourself.
Create a two circuits with a two identical light bulbs. Use a battery one battery that is 1.5 Volts and use another thats 3 Volts. Which do you think will burn out quicker?
And the fact that it's 1700mAh doesn't necessarily mean it gives longer battery life it might just mean that it has a higher current output.
You can use that battery if you want. I wouldn't.
xonar_ said:
Of course it's not the voltage itself, but the increased voltage causes increase current and that increases heat output and that does damage your phone.
Try this yourself.
Create a two circuits with a two identical light bulbs. Use a battery one battery that is 1.5 Volts and use another thats 3 Volts. Which do you think will burn out quicker?
And the fact that it's 1700mAh doesn't necessarily mean it gives longer battery life it might just mean that it has a higher current output.
You can use that battery if you want. I wouldn't.
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It's 0.1v of diference, I don't think that could break the phone or something.
lean7 said:
It's 0.1v of diference, I don't think that could break the phone or something.
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The heat output of the CPU is directly proportional to Voltage squared and since the change in temperature is equal to the Heat Ouput minus Heat Disipation the result will be a lot hotter than you think. The hotter it runs the higher the resistance in the circuits the more power you have to us to keep it running stable. Can you see why even a small difference in voltage makes a big difference.
Hello friends...I just bought my Xperia z1 yesterday. I have updated it to 2.257 , with normal usage of 10-15 mins continuously the temp rises to around 33-35 and when i use Camera for around 5-10 mins even, temp rise to around 40 degree and with a game like subway surfers the temp rises to 42-43 degree ... 43 was the highest i saw so far...
Is this ok with this phone ? Or should i go to service center ?
I am using the premium cover i got with the phone, with that on I don't really feel the hotness in my hands but just want to be sure that this is normal heat up with this phone and my phone is not bad..
Also, when the phone is at 43 degree, should i stop using it and allow it to cool ? or should i keep playing the games , use the camera and all...
Any application that can help reduce the heating ? and any better camera app u can suggest ?
Also, please don't suggest to root..I do not want to void the warranty but after 1 year I will definitely root the phone and use custom roms then...
81 views and no reply yet ?
what's the ambient temperature, its its under say 18 then yes i would be worried about that temp, if you ambient is say 25 then maybe not as much of an issue, check the back is the back cover (secured by tape) separating?
If its hot to the touch I would RMA that device
---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------
what's the ambient temperature, its its under say 18 then yes i would be worried about that temp, if you ambient is say 25 then maybe not as much of an issue, check the back is the back cover (secured by tape) separating?
If its hot to the touch I would RMA that device
lashton said:
what's the ambient temperature, its its under say 18 then yes i would be worried about that temp, if you ambient is say 25 then maybe not as much of an issue, check the back is the back cover (secured by tape) separating?
If its hot to the touch I would RMA that device
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Ambient temp is around 25 only...the back cover just realized is separating from the top end camera side only.
I heard from some friend that If i go to the customer service regarding this heat , they will only say that it is normal as there is no warning message being popped in the phone about overheating.
And at sonymobile.com every one is saying that this is a normal heat up in z1 and on high gaming this temp will even rise to 50+ and there is still no issue except that the battery will drain faster on such temperature. I don't really understand why such heat up is being considered as normal in this phone...I mean it is heating , i can feel it..there can be some h/w issue arise in future coz of this
The explication for the high temperatures, i think, is because the phone is sealed (water proof and all) and the heat can't be very well dispersed in this case. That's why, on Z, many users complained that their phones overheated so much that the adhesive would loosen up (from the back cover) compromising the sealing proof of the device.
Dirrtydog said:
The explication for the high temperatures, i think, is because the phone is sealed (water proof and all) and the heat can't be very well dispersed in this case. That's why, on Z, many users complained that their phones overheated so much that the adhesive would loosen up (from the back cover) compromising the sealing proof of the device.
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This is not always true. Most phones usually do not use any kind of air cooling. There are no fans or even any channels for air to move through in any phone im familiar with. Some phones (GS4 i think?) now have a water loop to transfer heat to the case more effectively, but they pretty much all just use the case to cool down.
When i first got my Z1 i had charged it to full then began using it right away while it was still warm from charging. After about an hour of running every benchmark i could find i started to use the camera on its max setting for maybe 20min before it said something like "temperature is too high, closing camera" (i didnt check the temp but i was a bit warm lol..). I was plugged in for all this usage so i was putting out near maximum heat.
I wouldn't actually be worried about the phone temp, i think this is just the reality of having this beast of a quad core with the standard (very little) heat dissipation. That said i know the CPU/GPU can handle 60-70C no problem, but i would prefer to keep the battery temp below 50C if possible.. Edit: actually the battery health indicator was reading "overheat" and i was at 39C° according to battery temp. I was playing an online game for about 35min.
It would be cool to have a battery discharge widget to show you how much more power is used when all cores and GPU are running, i think some people would be surprised.
The phone should stay cooler if its not plugged in during usage, i think. Also, i'I've never gotten the phone that hot since and im not trying to keep it cool at all.
crusnikmachine said:
It would be cool to have a battery discharge widget to show you how much more power is used when all cores and GPU are running, i think some people would be surprised.
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I use Current Widget it works fine and has a log to file function:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manor.currentwidget
The phone easily draws over 2 Amps during 3DMark, I guess maximum peak current will be around 3 Amps for some scenarios.That is a lot! Current Widget detected a battery voltage if 4,11V which means a power output of around 8 to 10W peak.
This is on the border of what can be passively cooled in this form factor. Actually it's a marvel of engineering to squeeze so much computing power into a smartphone. And you are right, there is no active air cooling in phones, I have never heard of water Cooling in a handset either, do you have a source? Sounds interesting but I can't believe it
I totally agree on the rest if your post though! Don't worry about heat, the device was meant to get hot, this big 3000mAh battery is there for a reason too. I don't know why so many people get crazy over this, Sony does usually know what they are doing and if they think a high temperature limit is fine, it is.
By the way: In the Nexus 5/ Z1 comparison thread the reviewer stated that the N5 got hotter than his Z1. All modern Smartphones do get hot, it is the tradeoff needed for high performance.
Edit: This topic has also been discussed here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2467743
Edit 2: You were right! NEC does use a ultrathin 0,6mm waterfilled heatpipe!
www.phonearena.com/news/Report-Top-...eat-pipe-inside-new-smartphone-models_id44174
I stand corrected! ^^
OfficerTux said:
I use Current Widget it works fine and has a log to file function:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manor.currentwidget
The phone easily draws over 2 Amps during 3DMark, I guess maximum peak current will be around 3 Amps for some scenarios.That is a lot! Current Widget detected a battery voltage if 4,11V which means a power output of around 8 to 10W peak.
This is on the border of what can be passively cooled in this form factor. Actually it's a marvel of engineering to squeeze so much computing power into a smartphone. And you are right, there is no active air cooling in phones, I have never heard of water Cooling in a handset either, do you have a source? Sounds interesting but I can't believe it
Edit 2: You were right! NEC does use a ultrathin 0,6mm waterfilled heatpipe!
www.phonearena.com/news/Report-Top-...eat-pipe-inside-new-smartphone-models_id44174
I stand corrected! ^^
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Click to collapse
Wow 3 amps i wasn't expecting, but that discharge rate would be required to kill it in an hour. Still nuts, they have defiantly pushed the limits of passive cooling here which disappointed me a bit because this will effect the maximum overclock. I don't know what i need the OC for yet, but thankfully i can just drop this phone in some ice water and it should do over 3Ghz no? My mytough4G went from 1Ghz to 2Ghz so we can expect a 100% overclock here too right? (I don't think the battery could even draw power fast enough..)
And water cooled phones amirite? I was really excited at the water cooled phones, but its not a big deal yet. That NEC probably barely runs cooler, and our Z1 would destroy that cooling setup anyways.. Its almost like they need to increase the size of the new devices to dissipate more heat. Although I'm still a fan of microscopic black hole cooling. Yep, a small singularity should do just fine.
So for now, its ice water and a PS3/BT controller lol.
crusnikmachine said:
And water cooled phones amirite? I was really excited at the water cooled phones, but its not a big deal yet. That NEC probably barely runs cooler, and our Z1 would destroy that cooling setup anyways.. Its almost like they need to increase the size of the new devices to dissipate more heat. Although I'm still a fan of microscopic black hole cooling.
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I really liked the black hole part
Yes just filling the heatpipes with water is no real water cooling, but it's nice to see some innovation. I'd rather like to see vapour chamber heatpipes like on modern graphics cards though, but without any heat sink that would useless too.
You are also right with your more size for better cooling theory, it's no wonder that Snapdragon 800 SoCs are just used in 5" and above devices. That's why I am so impressed with the Xperia Z1f (aka Z1 mini). If I am correctly informed it uses the same SoC as the big Z1 in a 4,3" chassis. That's an amazing feat and the first time a mini variant will be as fast as the big one (unlike S4 mini and One mini). But it will get throttled a lot more than our big Z1s I guess.
Edit: When going for some serious overclocks I would advise you to turn down display brightness completely, that should give you some 0,3 to 0,5 Amps of extra current
OfficerTux said:
I really liked the black hole part
Yes just filling the heatpipes with water is no real water cooling, but it's nice to see some innovation. I'd rather like to see vapour chamber heatpipes like on modern graphics cards though, but without any heat sink that would useless too.
You are also right with your more size for better cooling theory, it's no wonder that Snapdragon 800 SoCs are just used in 5" and above devices. That's why I am so impressed with the Xperia Z1f (aka Z1 mini). If I am correctly informed it uses the same SoC as the big Z1 in a 4,3" chassis. That's an amazing feat and the first time a mini variant will be as fast as the big one (unlike S4 mini and One mini). But it will get throttled a lot more than our big Z1s I guess.
Edit: When going for some serious overclocks I would advise you to turn down display brightness completely, that should give you some 0,3 to 0,5 Amps of extra current
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Click to collapse
crusnikmachine said:
This is not always true. Most phones usually do not use any kind of air cooling. There are no fans or even any channels for air to move through in any phone im familiar with. Some phones (GS4 i think?) now have a water loop to transfer heat to the case more effectively, but they pretty much all just use the case to cool down.
When i first got my Z1 i had charged it to full then began using it right away while it was still warm from charging. After about an hour of running every benchmark i could find i started to use the camera on its max setting for maybe 20min before it said something like "temperature is too high, closing camera" (i didnt check the temp but i was a bit warm lol..). I was plugged in for all this usage so i was putting out near maximum heat.
I wouldn't actually be worried about the phone temp, i think this is just the reality of having this beast of a quad core with the standard (very little) heat dissipation. That said i know the CPU/GPU can handle 60-70C no problem, but i would prefer to keep the battery temp below 50C if possible.. Edit: actually the battery health indicator was reading "overheat" and i was at 39C° according to battery temp. I was playing an online game for about 35min.
It would be cool to have a battery discharge widget to show you how much more power is used when all cores and GPU are running, i think some people would be surprised.
The phone should stay cooler if its not plugged in during usage, i think. Also, i'I've never gotten the phone that hot since and im not trying to keep it cool at all.
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Click to collapse
I understand your POV but as long as it is affecting my phone, it's integrity and one of the main features for which i bought it with a premium price and a safety measure has to kick in in order to stay everything "ok" like "temperature is too high, closing camera", I'm not so sure about giving it a pass so easily.
Dirrtydog said:
I understand your POV but as long as it is affecting my phone, it's integrity and one of the main features for which i bought it with a premium price and a safety measure has to kick in in order to stay everything "ok" like "temperature is too high, closing camera", I'm not so sure about giving it a pass so easily.
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However if you leave your device in the sun (car dash or w.e) it can get much hotter then it would from normal operation and when you try to wake the device it will usually immediately power down saying "high temp" or something. This is often the only way you would see this message imo. Pretty much all androids do this, so it really isn't specific to the Z1. An apple device would do the same thing etc.
Absolutely, no arguing.
But I don't agree when this happens while I'm playing a game, while (maybe) other apps are running in the background (multitasking), while wifi or 3g on, with more than 50% brightness level (not to mention maybe plugged to a power supply also to keep the battery from draining). In this particular case, on my old HTC One X, the overheating issue caused 2 burns on my phone's display (but that's another story) and i have them ever since.
So have you actually experienced any shut downs or warnings because of heat? Or do you just want to make sure that there's no problem?
I have been playing a lot if games and used the camera, so far everything seems stable, I have had no problems yet.
Mine reached 60 yesterday while playing dead trigger 2 but the CPU still scaled up to 2.15 so I guess the phone can take up to 65/70 degrees but my hands can't...
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Dirrtydog said:
Absolutely, no arguing.
But I don't agree when this happens while I'm playing a game, while (maybe) other apps are running in the background (multitasking), while wifi or 3g on, with more than 50% brightness level (not to mention maybe plugged to a power supply also to keep the battery from draining). In this particular case, on my old HTC One X, the overheating issue caused 2 burns on my phone's display (but that's another story) and i have them ever since.
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m666p said:
Mine reached 60 yesterday while playing dead trigger 2 but the CPU still scaled up to 2.15 so I guess the phone can take up to 65/70 degrees but my hands can't...
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Click to collapse
Yea im with you.. At least you can dip this phone in water to cool it down xD
m666p said:
Mine reached 60 yesterday while playing dead trigger 2 but the CPU still scaled up to 2.15 so I guess the phone can take up to 65/70 degrees but my hands can't...
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
60 degrees celsius? Wow mine was doing 45 degrees while playing dead trigger 2 and I thaught I had a faulty handset
Lithium Ion Batterys DO NOT like to be charged at HIGH Temperatures
After doing a heavy intensive CPU App, or playing a game and the back of the phone is getting really hot, let your phone cool off before charging
I played Plants VS zombies for an hour and the battery temps gradually rose to around 68C which is 154.4F
Let it cool before charging, use a battery temp app such as "Battery" to monitor temps
I learned the hard way on my HTC One X after letting it overheat and then charging it while it was overheating it reduced the capacity of the battery ALOT and got the Red light while flashing when charging witch means the battery has overheated
Also
Your Phone does not have any active cooling system for the CPU, it has Passive cooling witch uses the environment's temperature to bring down the temperature of the internal cpu
Your PC has Active Cooling (Heatsink + Fan)
The nexus 5 has passive cooling (Heatsink only)
same goes with just casual wireless charging. be careful
A battery dwelling above 30°C (86°F) is considered elevated temperature
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Click to collapse
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
I can't care less. It has 1 year warranty.
Odd, Is it really monitoring the battery temps? it seems to be linked to the CPU temp and the warm part is located on where the CPU is at and not the battery.
EarlZ said:
Odd, Is it really monitoring the battery temps? it seems to be linked to the CPU temp and the warm part is located on where the CPU is at and not the battery.
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it's to my understanding there are 2 sensors in the N5, one for battery and one for cpu
Irrelevant as the phone has built in protections. If it is too hot it stops charging. FUD spreading.
GldRush98 said:
Irrelevant as the phone has built in protections. If it is too hot it stops charging. FUD spreading.
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Explain my dead HTC One X battery? Exactly not everything works as it should be.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/slyp087/slyp087.pdf
if the temp gets high enough the chip cannot react fast enough
or if the charge falls too low lets say 2 volts it cannot charge again because it isn't a safe charging voltage
I think he was actually saying that the charging circuit wouldn't allow the battery to charge at high temperatures. I cannot verify that but since the charging circuit prevents over draw and over charge by cutting "power" it makes sense
-----------------------
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I do NOT reply to support queries over PM. Please keep support queries to the Q&A section, so that others may benefit
It will cut off after reaching extremes. You don't want it reaching those extremes ever though or it WILL take it's toll on the battery.
Battery's don't like heat. They don't like extreme cold either.
Don't think the battery will ever get to 110F as the phone will shut down/not charge at that temperature until it goes down. Therefore, you probably couldn't spoil the battery if you tried with this fail safe implemented.
With someone's personal testimony about a fried phone, I can offer my testimony that I used a wireless charger on my Nexus 4 + played games until hot + charged whenever I wanted to and the phone, which my GF uses now, isn't any worse for wear.
Especially because the Nexus 5 has a Li-Po (lithium-polymer) and not a lithium-Ion battery
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
Hi
These batteries don't like heat full stop, they are like perishable foods and degrade quicker the warmer they are, regardless of being charged or not. This is why laptop batteries do not do well when the laptop is used mostly on the mains, nothing to do with constant top up charging, it is because the battery is constantly held in the warmth of the running laptop all day and age much quicker.
Lithium batteries do not work well in extreme cold, but this isn't permanent and they return to normal when back to room temperature, and lithium batteries are held refrigerated for storage, just like a perishable food.
Regardless of being used or not, the battery will lose a considerable amount of its capacity just by ageing over a year or two. Given the various safety controls built in, it is fairly difficult to cause much more damage than time alone will cause, so you might as well just use and abuse the battery anyway, especially as most people will be replacing the phone after a couple of years.
Regards
Phil
Enhanced said:
Don't think the battery will ever get to 110F as the phone will shut down/not charge at that temperature until it goes down. Therefore, you probably couldn't spoil the battery if you tried with this fail safe implemented.
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i dont think you know what the fail safe temperature is
http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/cVuWVDW-hyY
there's a thread with someone's n5 getting to 45C(113F) while playing games and without shutting down, and he lives in Canada. imagine what temp it would be at in any reasonably warm climate
110F is not safe if you want to preserve the longevity of your battery. period.
GldRush98 said:
Irrelevant as the phone has built in protections. If it is too hot it stops charging. FUD spreading.
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Not irrelevant... Mine overheated while attached to my laptop and the led screen blew up. It developed a black bubble at the bottom near the home button.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
george241312 said:
@op what phone in this world currently has an internal fan on it ?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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No phones currently have no active cooling on them
Also heres what happened to my HTC One X
http://forums.androidcentral.com/ht...e-x-battery-draining-rapidly-overheating.html
It drained rapidly and the backside was always hot when it wasn't even in use just sitting on my desk caused it to got hot
and i would charge it to 100% and took it off the charger ~10 mins it dropped to 70% just sitting there idle and the back is super hot
my point is the charging circuit only controls for overcharge with is extremely dangerous
george241312 said:
@op what phone in this world currently has an internal fan on it ?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
Just another example of Google cutting costs to put out this cheapo piece of %$))$!
But actually I did manage to really cook my phone! I set it (plugged in!) in a south-facing window to shoot time-lapse and oh-so-cleverly the sun bright winter sun was streaming through the thermal glass, and on to the silky black phone and...physics happened! About 15 minutes in my insta-greenhouse and I heard a strange whimpering 'ding!' from the phone -- when next I looked it had shut itself down. On reboot Dashclock was reporting "Overheat" "Not charging", and temp of 60+ degrees (can't remember the exact number but it might have been as high as 68!) Panic & a few minutes in the freezer brought it back to normal.
Take from that what you will:
1. It really dislikes being treated like a tomato seedling.
2. Idiot user didn't understand the 'greenhouse effect"
3. The phone does stop charging and goes into shutdown when things get too hot.
Before you judge too harshly, I want to point out the most obvious factor; a truly earth-shatteringly great phone would have come packed with the necessary technology to protect the phone in such cases -- maybe that would be a fan, or maybe it would be better served with a liquid cooling system, but whatever it should have, clearly Google cut corners yet again!
NotFromMountainView said:
Removed extraneous chatter...
Before you judge too harshly, I want to point out the most obvious factor; a truly earth-shatteringly great phone would have come packed with the necessary technology to protect the phone in such cases -- maybe that would be a fan, or maybe it would be better served with a liquid cooling system, but whatever it should have, clearly Google cut corners yet again!
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Click to collapse
And the size and weight of the phone would grow enormously. Are you kidding? And what phone offered anywhere by anyone does what you suggest?
NotFromMountainView said:
<Snip>
...a truly earth-shatteringly great phone would have come packed with the necessary technology to protect the phone in such cases -- maybe that would be a fan, or maybe it would be better served with a liquid cooling system, but whatever it should have, clearly Google cut corners yet again!
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Click to collapse
I'm not the smallest guy on the planet, but can you imagine the size of a the pair of cargo shorts/pants that would be needed to carry a liquid cooled smartphone? Massive!! lol
Fwiw, my N5 routinely gets to 107-111f when doing some intensive things with other background intensive things running as well (i.e. banning trolls on my phone both through Tapatalk and Dolphin while listening to a streaming content on mobile wireless and sitting in the sun soaking up some Vitamin D).
Oh ya!!
Thread Cleaned
Woody said:
I'm not the smallest guy on the planet, but can you imagine the size of a the pair of cargo shorts/pants that would be needed to carry a liquid cooled smartphone? Massive!! lol
Fwiw, my N5 routinely gets to 107-111f when doing some intensive things with other background intensive things running as well (i.e. banning trolls on my phone both through Tapatalk and Dolphin while listening to a streaming content on mobile wireless and sitting in the sun soaking up some Vitamin D).
Oh ya!!
Thread Cleaned
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It ain't about the pants, it's about Google being too damn cheap to deliver truer-than-true state-of-the-state-of-the-art! Come to think of it, if Google had the balls to fill those pants we'd have the phone we really deserve!
68 Celsius is about 154 Fahrenheit. But as I said, because it was actually being cooked at the time.
HAS ANYONE NOTICED OVERHEATING OF PHONE MOSTLY WHILE CHARGING, GAMING (should expect some heat not this much). I play PUBG on smooth basic plus extreme with no AA and gfx lower settings. Still phone heats up. FAN seems to be a marketing gimmick too. Circulation of air is v poor.
My question is can this be fixed via twrp custom rom tweaks. I'm willing to experiment.
Excuse me. Are you one of those geniuses who charges his phone while gaming?
thel'vadam said:
HAS ANYONE NOTICED OVERHEATING OF PHONE MOSTLY WHILE CHARGING, GAMING (should expect some heat not this much). I play PUBG on smooth basic plus extreme with no AA and gfx lower settings. Still phone heats up. FAN seems to be a marketing gimmick too. Circulation of air is v poor.
My question is can this be fixed via twrp custom rom tweaks. I'm willing to experiment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I have the same issue
Aashishmv said:
Yes I have the same issue
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Click to collapse
Describe the issue.
What is the app/activity?
What is the temperature of CPU and Battery?
What is the temperature of air?
nabbed said:
Describe the issue.
What is the app/activity?
What is the temperature of CPU and Battery?
What is the temperature of air?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think nubia have fake temp status.
Or is that a bug i don't know
When i turn the fan on at max speed. Temp increased. Things like that happen. Or when i come back to auto from performance mode. Tem goes up.
Which is weird. Makes me believe that all this temp and gpu turbo and fan is a gimmick.
Air temp is 26 deg Celsius.
thel'vadam said:
I think nubia have fake temp status.
Or is that a bug i don't know
When i turn the fan on at max speed. Temp increased. Things like that happen. Or when i come back to auto from performance mode. Tem goes up.
Which is weird. Makes me believe that all this temp and gpu turbo and fan is a gimmick.
Air temp is 26 deg Celsius.
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Click to collapse
How do you measure the temperature? Was it a temperature of the CPU or the battery?
If your sentiment is not a user error or a fluke, then your unit is defective. Here's what one of the most prolific Youtube reviewers said about the fan - "it was keeping my phone 8 degrees cooler than my Samsung." I assume 8C, not Fahrenheit, because the reviewer is from UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4v3_3cPh0A#t=7m20s
nabbed said:
How do you measure the temperature? Was it a temperature of the CPU or the battery?
If your sentiment is not a user error or a fluke, then your unit is defective. Here's what one of the most prolific Youtube reviewers said about the fan - "it was keeping my phone 8 degrees cooler than my Samsung." I assume 8C, not Fahrenheit, because the reviewer is from UK.
#t=7m20s
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Click to collapse
YouTube ers are paid. I check the temp stats from gaming app . Inbuilt.
Plus the phone feels hot in hand. Not 8 degrees cooler. And Hunan hand can easily feel 8 degrees change in temp over 5-10 minutes
thel'vadam said:
YouTube ers are paid. I check the temp stats from gaming app . Inbuilt.
Plus the phone feels hot in hand. Not 8 degrees cooler. And Hunan hand can easily feel 8 degrees change in temp over 5-10 minutes
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Click to collapse
Instead of admitting that you were sold a defective unit and exchanging it for a working one, you think there's a conspiracy that involves the Nubia corporation and "paid youtubers."
But hey, I'm thinking this guy is not a psychopath. Maybe it's just a user erorr.
Maybe he thinks that having a fan in the phone should make the phone feel cool to touch during gaming.
Maybe he simply doesn't understand that the fan may be lowering the temperature from 55C to 47C, and that 47C will still feel hot to the hand.
Hey guy,
Can you actually provide real world numbers with screenshots?
No one has experienced anything like this before, so either your phone is defective or you have a nervous breakdown.
Yes, the phone overheats while charging but if you switch on the gaming mode to check heat also in certain Celsius comes down gradually and quickly in my case. So fans not a fake gimmick. Also when you are playing games heat is normal for heavy graphic 3d rendering titles like pubg, fortnight I play pubg with extreme HD and it heats but the fan keeps decreasing the heat. My suggestion is to charge where there is air free flow of air like a fan, AC, or cooler to keep ambient temp in control.
praveenparvani said:
Is the phone overheats when charging but if you switch on the gaming more and the famine normal performance also the Celsius comes down gradually so when is not fake also when you playing games that is normal heating I play with extreme HD and it heats but the fan keeps decreasing decreasing heat my suggestion is to charge where there is air flow free air flow are a fan AC cooler on.
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Click to collapse
What he said. Sorry.
nabbed said:
Instead of admitting that you were sold a defective unit and exchanging it for a working one, you think there's a conspiracy that involves the Nubia corporation and "paid youtubers."
But hey, I'm thinking this guy is not a psychopath. Maybe it's just a user erorr.
Maybe he thinks that having a fan in the phone should make the phone feel cool to touch during gaming.
Maybe he simply doesn't understand that the fan may be lowering the temperature from 55C to 47C, and that 47C will still feel hot to the hand.
Hey guy,
Can you actually provide real world numbers with screenshots?
No one has experienced anything like this before, so either your phone is defective or you have a nervous breakdown.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is term called "anpad", search google. Means noob.
In forums here devs try to explore and experiment with every possible problem the OS or hardware may face.
See im not going to respond further to your low IQ behaviour anymore. Good day to you.
praveenparvani said:
Is the phone overheats when charging but if you switch on the gaming more and the famine normal performance also the Celsius comes down gradually so when is not fake also when you playing games that is normal heating I play with extreme HD and it heats but the fan keeps decreasing decreasing heat my suggestion is to charge where there is air flow free air flow are a fan AC cooler on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes
That is understandable, but then what is the fun of a fan gimmick when you need additional external air circulation with AC.
Even with clash of clans. Not much demanding game phone heats up. Plus additional charging while playing the temp increases continuously.
Circulation of heat and cooling inside the phone is poor. I'm starting to wonder if the battery has nay issues of heat while charging.
thel'vadam said:
There is term called "anpad", search google. Means noob.
In forums here devs try to explore and experiment with every possible problem the OS or hardware may face.
See im not going to respond further to your low IQ behaviour anymore. Good day to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low iq behavior? Projection much?
You are the one who's playing games while charging the phone, something that should not be done to a cellphone battery especially with 26C ambient air.
You realize that by charging and playing you are heating up the battery and the cpu at the same time and that's really going to cut battery's life real quick?
nabbed said:
What he said. Sorry.
Click to expand...
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Apologies for the mess. Was relyed on Google voice without proof reading. I have edited now.
I'm not suggest to plug in a charger while gaming, it will make the phone hot, especially when you using the original fast charger. Anoher thing is you hae to know you can't get a high performance with the low temperature, if you get a very hot phone, the cpu will running in a low clock speed. The RM3 can get highest score on Antutu so I think the fan is doing something.
JerryYin said:
I'm not suggest to plug in a charger while gaming, it will make the phone hot, especially when you using the original fast charger. Anoher thing is you hae to know you can't get a high performance with the low temperature, if you get a very hot phone, the cpu will running in a low clock speed. The RM3 can get highest score on Antutu so I think the fan is doing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree the fan is going something. Had the circulation been a bit effective i think it could have been utilised in a more better way.
Anyways i was just charging the phone while gaming to test the heat limits. Not actually doing it.
Still i have noticed battery heat while standby charging
thel'vadam said:
I agree the fan is going something. Had the circulation been a bit effective i think it could have been utilised in a more better way.
Anyways i was just charging the phone while gaming to test the heat limits. Not actually doing it.
Still i have noticed battery heat while standby charging
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are using a fast charger, the battery will get hot, that's normal.
Nubia red magic 3 Phone crashes..
I played pubg for 2hrs, the phone became unresponsive, the phone becomes so hot and the screen flashes with white pictures.. red magic 3..
Bunblebee01 said:
I played pubg for 2hrs, the phone became unresponsive, the phone becomes so hot and the screen flashes with white pictures.. red magic 3..
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Click to collapse
What was the ambient temperature?
28degree c and lower, the same problem occurs.. nubia support told me its normal?
---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------
I guess i have to stick with it and just cool it down every after 1game of pubg..