Galaxy S HSPA+ Radio Question - Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

I've searched google many times and still cannot find a clear answer on how T-mobile's HSPA+(aka 4g) works. If anyone could help me understand how this works I think many people including myself would appreciate it, and also is there anyway these Android phones can be hacked to upgrade as the networks upgrades. For example the G2 and Mytouch 4g have been branded as 4g yet they are not as fast as the Galaxy S running the 21MBps capability. I dont understand the technology let alone marketing on this. Is it UMTS, LTE, or HSPA+? I have found no good articles that really know what they are talking about. Im just curious so I as the consumer know what I'm paying for. Anyone can say 3g or 4g but it seems mysterious that these phones just happen to only be able to use only 14.4mbps vs the galaxy s uses 21mpbs. Along these lines is the new Voip technology. Some say you can do it and I here other places that the phone needs specific hardware to use. Is it just me or does there seem to be a hugeee breakdown in information be released that is relevant from the carrier to the consumer encompassing plans, network, and phones. Sorry if this seems to be off topic or all over, but my main question is on the "Galaxy S". I am just trying to figure out how we are supposed to figure out if a phone says HSPA+ and the frequency says 1700/2100, how fast it actually is.

1. wrong section
2. att's/tmobiles 4g is simply a faster version of 3g aka hspa+, real 4g is lte advanced which nobody has.

Related

[Q] 3g/4g confusion

I have a Galaxy S (i9000t) from Bermuda, and am not happy with my service provider, so I'm looking at switching over to another provider who also sell the Galaxy S i9000t. They just launched 4G service today, and in their list of 4g supported phones they have the SGS. Is this true? I dont understand much on the differences, but they are saying you don't need a new 4G phone, that current phones are compatible. Instore they have the iphone4 and the SGS listed as compatible 4G. Can someone please explain?
http://www.cellularone.bm/4G.asp
The "4G"* that CellularOne are advertising is HSPA+. The Galaxy S I9000 is capable of HSDPA up to 7.2Mbps, but does not have HSPA+ as standard (though T-Mobile US have announced a HSPA+ version for their own network). If the network offers 7.2Mbps HSDPA as well, like T-Mobile US, then you'll still see pretty good speeds from the I9000, but an HSPA+ phone could theoretically download a lot faster on a suitable network.
(* Arguably no current "4G" networks are officially 4G according to the ITU, who decide such things. However, this battle is lost now that so many networks have decided to start using that nomenclature, and even the ITU have been forced to concede that the term may be used to forerunners of true 4G technologies.)
thanks heaps. I appreciate it. I emailed Cellular One today, and interestingly enough, their official response was "the Galaxy S is a 4G phone, you will be able to use that"
Never confuse marketing (which includes what a salesperson tells you) with the truth.
But yeah, the term "4G" seems to have escaped from formal standards, and is basically meaningless.

[Q] Captivate on T-mobile data

So I'm certain you all have heard about the AT&T, Tmobile merger that's coming along. Assuming that it gets approved, I'll suddenly have 3g and 4g available in my area (finally!) since Tmobile is the only one that currently supports it in our area.
My question is - will the Captivate function on the T-mobile tower spectrum for 3g and 4g data?
Please research as the answer is no. The captivate does not have any bands that work on T-Mobile. The virbrant does have bands that work on att.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
flashman2002 said:
Please research as the answer is no. The captivate does not have any bands that work on T-Mobile. The virbrant does have bands that work on att.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How unfair! My boyfriend has the vibrant, and one of his coworkers has the new Galaxy 4g. Well, I hope they somehow tweak it so that the towers broadcast on the AT&T bands as well, else that will really stink, and provides no benefit for AT&T customers.
I saw something on Gizmodo saying that 3G phones with T-Mobile bands will no longer work on the new combined network after integration is complete. That leaves only AT&T 3G devices and whatever 4G LTE devices are around by then. So it sounds like towers will be broadcasting only AT&T frequencies.
My apologies if this information is inaccurate in any way.
Perception 10.2 | SpeedMod K13D | I9000ZSJPG
Ikonomi said:
I saw something on Gizmodo saying that 3G phones with T-Mobile bands will no longer work on the new combined network after integration is complete. That leaves only AT&T 3G devices and whatever 4G LTE devices are around by then. So it sounds like towers will be broadcasting only AT&T frequencies.
My apologies if this information is inaccurate in any way.
Perception 10.2 | SpeedMod K13D | I9000ZSJPG
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome for me! Sucks for my boyfriend! (though his vibrant can use AT&T frequencies if jailbroken, which he has not yet done)
jamina1 said:
How unfair! My boyfriend has the vibrant, and one of his coworkers has the new Galaxy 4g. Well, I hope they somehow tweak it so that the towers broadcast on the AT&T bands as well, else that will really stink, and provides no benefit for AT&T customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should restate what I said. The phone will work. It just won't have 3G speeds if you are using data. The Vibrant however still works on AT&T 3G towers. I don't know how or if they will actually disable bands as mentioned in a previous posters link to Gizmodo. Sorry for not being more clear in my original post.
flashman2002 said:
I should restate what I said. The phone will work. It just won't have 3G speeds if you are using data. The Vibrant however still works on AT&T 3G towers. I don't know how or if they will actually disable bands as mentioned in a previous posters link to Gizmodo. Sorry for not being more clear in my original post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess we'll just have to see - it makes sense that AT&T would convert the towers, just as they are currently they won't work. So either way in my case and my boyfriend's case we'll have to wait till our area is integrated and see what happens.
What about this?
http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...850mhz-and-1900mhz-bands-too.-Works-on-ATT-3g
This thread is from last year before we really had a lot of mods to our phones. So maybe more information has been discovered?
Now we are flashing international ROMs and such and swapping modems as we like.
It seems odd that the Vibrant would be able to work on the ATT 3G frequencies but the Captivate would have been manufactured differently. And the I9000? One would think it would be capable of all the bands?
I do have both ATT and TMO sim cards with data on both plans. However, I only get Edge in my Captivate with the TMO sim inserted.
Wow. This hasn't been hashed out 100 times.
Cappy has different radio HARDWARE. Vibrant will get certain Att 3G band but the chances of you having correct band is slim since its older and slower 3G.
Sent via my Continuum 5 Cappy.

[Q] Can GT P1000CWAXSG work on ATT voice and 3g?

I've spent hours trying to confirm whether it's possible or not but I'm still not sure. According to the specs I found, it has the 900/1900/2100 tri band UTMS for data. If I understand correctly, At&t requires 850 or 1900 for 3g. So it should work right?
BUT, looking on ebay all the P1000CWAXSG tabs say t-mobile for their carrier. Now, I think I read somewhere that t-mobile USA and t-mobile europe use different frequencies? Or am I just making that up?
I did see a thread where someone was trying to do just what I am wondering about and it seemed like it might be possible, but alas, the thread just drops off sometime in july w/o any conclusion. I think member rangercaptain was helping out with that. If you're out there, what do you say sir? Any conclusive answers? There's a few P1000's out there on ebay that are priced right and I'm seriously considering getting one, unless that is if it won't work out. Please advise.
Gracious!
Nope, you will not get 3g, just edge. You need 850 for 3g to work according to what your findings are the tab doesn't. But you should double check those specs, cause that's not what t-mobile claims.
Regardless T-mobile devices do not work on AT&T's 3G network. You will only have EDGE, if there is something that has changed recently that I am unaware of, maybe someone here can enlighten us further.
Besides at&t tabs sell for a good price as well.
hope I helped, if I did, hit my thank you button.

[Q] HTC Vivid on Tmobile 3G/4G?

Hi all,
I was wondering whether there would be any way to flash a custom modem or a ROM that would unlock the LTE bands so that the Vivid can access HSPA on Tmobile's network?
From what Ive read, the AT&T GS2 Skyrocket and the AT&T Galaxy Note have been unlocked through this method and Im not sure why the Vivid cant be since it shares much of the same specs between it and the Skyrocket & G-Note
Thanks
dante58 said:
Hi all,
I was wondering whether there would be any way to flash a custom modem or a ROM that would unlock the LTE bands so that the Vivid can access HSPA on Tmobile's network?
From what Ive read, the AT&T GS2 Skyrocket and the AT&T Galaxy Note have been unlocked through this method and Im not sure why the Vivid cant be since it shares much of the same specs between it and the Skyrocket & G-Note
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No that isn't possible, tmobile and att have different bands. I know that you could use a sim card on the vivid, but you wouldn't get the same speed.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
IIRC you can use a T-Mobile phone on ATT and get 2G but can't use ATT on TMO.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
doktor buknasty said:
No that isn't possible, tmobile and att have different bands. I know that you could use a sim card on the vivid, but you wouldn't get the same speed.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The LTE band can be used on Tmobile to get 4G download speeds. As visible here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1507825
OP is asking if this is possible for the Vivid, need a Tmobile radio to flash. Would be great if someone could work on it.
twolves14 said:
The LTE band can be used on Tmobile to get 4G download speeds. As visible here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1507825
OP is asking if this is possible for the Vivid, need a Tmobile radio to flash. Would be great if someone could work on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The LTE Band will never work on T-Mobile's GSM. What allows the Note and Skyrocket to work is that they have the pentaband hardware GSM modem and flashing a different software modem enables access to those frequencies on GSM.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
dante58 said:
I was wondering whether there would be any way to flash a custom modem or a ROM that would unlock the LTE bands so that the Vivid can access HSPA on Tmobile's network?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
twolves14 said:
The LTE band can be used on Tmobile to get 4G download speeds. As visible here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1507825
OP is asking if this is possible for the Vivid, need a Tmobile radio to flash. Would be great if someone could work on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh yeah, it's going to be hard to get the LTE bands on the LTE radio on the phone to pick up UMTS/HSPA signal.
There's a reason why phones are usually advertised like:
GSM/EDGE 850/900/1800/1900MHz
UMTS/HSPA 850/1900/2100MHz
LTE AWS700MHz
They kiiiinda aren't interoperable. Note how you can't connect to UMTS 900MHz or use a Telstra LTE phone and get 1800MHz 2G service if the phone doesn't have that band in its 2G spectrum.
I remember reading about the pentaband radios having UMTS/HSPA 850/900/1700/1900/2100MHz. That's still pretty different than your standard quad-band GSM radio.
It is absolutely possible...given that the specs on GSM Arena and Phonescoop are right...
700 MHz Class 17, 1700/2100 MHz
It has the correct pair for Tmobile.
The only thing is whether or not you can flash the radio with a Tmobile equivalent (Amaze?) radio.
What happened to all the hardware hackers on this forum? It seems as if no one knows ANYthing about the interworkings of a network anymore.
Anyhow, the phone having the bands and knowing what to do with them are 2 different things. For example. Stereo FM 101.9 Mhz vs. HD(Digital)-FM 101.9...they're both on the same band/frequency but are utilized differently...
The signals are still transmitted on the same frequency, however the radio itself doesn't know how to decode/interpret the HD (Digital) signal...unless it is told how to do so.
The only place that this analogy differs is when it comes to actual comparison of FM receivers and Cellular phones. With FM receivers it actually requires a decoder to understand the digital signal being broadcasted...Cellular however just needs to be flashed and voila, you've got HSPA...
So. Yes. It is %100 possible.
NO NO NO NO.
LTE bands do NOT equal GSM. Not going to happen. They are physically different receivers for lack of a better phrase. There is no way to do this without physically changing hardware. Also, you realize T-Mobile's "1700" frequency does not actually mean 1700 on the dot. They use a different subset of actual radio bands than AT&T's 1700 LTE. As in 1721-1727 or some such vs 1781-1793 or something. I don't know the actual frequencies, but you get the drift.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
It is absolutely possible. No question about it.
Then do it. For one, there is no compatible modem to flash. Two, it isn't possible.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Hand is hitting my face so hard right now.
RavenII, if it's so possible, then why don't you do it? If you can't, give a large donation to one of our developers and tell them to do it.
I, and many others here are blatantly telling you it's not possible for clear reasons.
The Galaxy Nexus has a PENTABAND UMTS/HSPA "3G" radio. 850/900/1700/1900/2100. That's why it can access TMobile's 3G and faux-G. We here, on the HTC Holiday, have a tri-band 3G radio.
DIRECTLY from your sources at GSM ARENA and PHONESCOOP. I've added HTC.com for good measure:
2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
3G Network HSDPA 850 / 1900 / 2100
4G Network LTE 700 MHz Class 17 / 1700 / 2100
GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
LTE 700 / 1700
WCDMA 850 / 1900 / 2100
LTE (AWS/700), HSPA+/UMTS Tri-band (850/1900/2100MHz), and tri-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE (850/900/1800/1900MHz)
What? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the fact that "3G network/WCDMA/HSPA+/UMTS" doesn't have 1700MHz. Oh wait, I couldn't hear you over the fact that TMobile's faux-G is not based on LTE, nor is it 4G (big hint: it's 3G HSPA-based service ).
GSM Arena and Phonescoop also do not account for the of LTE bands supported by the Vivid. Each region of the Holiday pretty much only supports the LTE band in that region. Rogers and ATT only supports AWS700, Telstra only supports 1800, etc.
I'm glad I'm not the only one to retain my senses about this. Leave it to a fellow Saab fan to explain it correctly.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Ok...I really didn't want to do this since I HATE spoon feeding people on forums...but here goes. And try to keep up because I'm only going to dumb it down so much.
What you guys are mistaking for "Bands"...really ARE NOT BANDS....there is NO SUCH THING as an LTE band...or HSPA+ band...
There are Network types ...LTE, HSPA+, -Insert other modulation/channeling scheme here-, etc.
There are Frequencies (which are actually specific ranges but for the sake of confusion, they're referred to as the following 700, 800, 850, 900, 1700, 1900, 2100...etc.) By the way...all those frequencies fall under the UHF band...
So far we've established that there are Network types...and different frequencies...are you still with me? Any questions?
Ok, onward.
There exists something called an SDR or Software Defined Rado...it has the ability to receive and transmit on certain frequencies...It's the software that defines how much of that frequency to use per channel (1Mhz, 25khz, etc.), what range of frequencies to use, how to use them, how much power to use while transmitting, among MANY other things (what frequency to send on, which to receive on, etc.)...That's how they came up with "Software defined radio"
If you look at the Product Brief for the MSM8X60/APQ8060 you should notice all of the frequencies that these specific chips support...
I really don't want to lose you guys, still following?
You might notice that the APQ8060 doesn't have a WWAN modem...but what does THAT mean? It means that it needs something like ohhhhh let's say the MDM9200...FINE! Here's one more spoon full
Reader to me: But RavenII...you're being a condescending ****, and we still don't know what the hell your point is...you're spewing all this **** like you're some know it all...
Me to Reader: There there grasshopper. I will get straight to it...
With all of the information I've given you...you should be able to see that when you see something like "LTE (AWS/700), HSPA+/UMTS Tri-band (850/1900/2100MHz), and tri-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE (850/900/1800/1900MHz)"...it means the radio is...
Being told to use LTE Standards (modulation, channeling, frequency steps, etc.) on AWS/700 (which if they're using AWS to signify Band IV...it would in turn mean 1700/2100), HSPA+/UMTS Standards on 850/1900/2100MHz...etc.
Still reading?
When I say that it is %100 possible...I'm saying that with software or "flashing the radio"...you can effectively change/tell what the chip should do (in this case either an MSM or MDM) with the frequencies it's capable of transmitting/receiving on. That's it.
Aus_Azn: I really hope you didn't leave a hand print on your face...
Thank you, good night.
One last thought: I never said that I would do it, I said that it's possible...
Here's the real simple way to explain it: it is theoretically possible to do but no one outside of HTC has the skill or proprietary code to do it.
So for all intents and purposes, impossible. It will not now nor ever happen.
Also, while the chip may support all bands from the factory that initially fabricated the chip, it may be locked at a firmware level (not a software radio, but actual ROM on the physical chip) that a software based radio cannot affect. This is why you can't just flash a T-Mobile software radio on another AT&T s-off device and have it work. The physical chip itself DOES NOT SUPPORT THE FREQUENCY NEEDED due to changed firmware configuration.
Is that condescending enough for you?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Let's see, how can I put this...You're still wrong. It's still possible.
I don't even own a Vivid so I'm no longer going to post to this thread...but I will tell you this...everyone once told me that blackberrys could not have data without having the BIS (Blackberry specific plan)...and guess what. I'M the reason that people are hacking them away. I was the first one to figure it out and prove everyone wrong. While I don't have a phone that I need to convert for T-Mobile, you can bet, that once there's a phone that I want to use on T-Mobile's network...I'll more than likely find a way.
Farewell.
@totally off topic
RavenII I think you're going on the right track here. I'm already convinced by what your saying.
peaceout
What RavenII is saying does have a good base logically because it has been done before for a very similar set of hardware to the raider. The ATT Galaxy S2 Skyrocket and the ATT Note LTE are both phones featuring very similar processor and modem as the Raider. The APQ8060 and MDM9200 (i think).
Samsung released devices with this modem running on all sorts of bands 1700, 850, 1900, 2100 and even LTE on 1700 and 700.
The ATT Versions of the devices do not feature UMTS in AWS range however people have simply flashed the modem from the T-Mobile version of the device which doesn't have LTE and the ATT LTE devices actually started working on UMTS AWS bands. Various modems give various degrees of success but it is possible and has been confirmed many many times over.
Here is the thread for the ATT Skyrocket. You will find people doing the same thing on ATT Galaxy Note LTE.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1507825
You guys are funny, now I can't wait to get my Vivid which I just received today running on T-Mobiles "4g". The funny thing about this is when i very first started reading this thread and saw Mr. buknastys' reply, I was thinking "That is absolutely not true". Now I'm not going to go into detail or try and prove any points, as Raven has done a perfectly fine job proving his point and answering the OPs question. Bottom line; the two readers are absolutely wrong and Raven is absolutely right. Also one last thing, I love how suddenly a firmware "lock" is something of an obstacle, yet we have gained S-Off on nearly every HTC bootloader out there. Just sayin..
motoxxx138 said:
You guys are funny, now I can't wait to get my Vivid which I just received today running on T-Mobiles "4g". The funny thing about this is when i very first started reading this thread and saw Mr. buknastys' reply, I was thinking "That is absolutely not true". Now I'm not going to go into detail or try and prove any points, as Raven has done a perfectly fine job proving his point and answering the OPs question. Bottom line; the two readers are absolutely wrong and Raven is absolutely right. Also one last thing, I love how suddenly a firmware "lock" is something of an obstacle, yet we have gained S-Off on nearly every HTC bootloader out there. Just sayin..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really didn't mean to come off as a **** in this thread, but it seems as if though people have forgotten about actual hacking and everything has moved to "Supercharging" and theming...it's saddening, I come from a time where there was no such thing as impossible.
...I encourage you to try, but do so with a lot of caution...because the fact of the matter is...you can brick your device...
Happy hacking.
THANK YOU!!!
RavenII said:
I really didn't mean to come off as a **** in this thread, but it seems as if though people have forgotten about actual hacking and everything has moved to "Supercharging" and theming...it's saddening, I come from a time where there was no such thing as impossible.
...I encourage you to try, but do so with a lot of caution...because the fact of the matter is...you can brick your device...
Happy hacking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would just like to say thank you to Raven as I now have a AT&T Vivid and have successfully placed it on the T-mobile 3G network working 100% of the time. I will be putting together a full tutorial on how to do this shortly as it was indeed a challenge. I have been reading these forums for awhile and Raven your post has by far been one of the most beneficial and inspiring ones...thanks for sticking it out on these forums...few do these days. I actually just joined this forum after months of reading because of this post. I figure i too will provide feedback. I am actually a Tech Manager w/ Sprint. I work on these things everyday in other words....hints why I actually have a T-mobile phone lol. Not saying T-mobile is the best but you at least get exactly what you pay for and they are honest about coverage haha. Anyways..back on topic...the HTC Vivid is an interesting phone to root even and get the S-off. It is needed in order to get the sim unlocked. You have to do a combo of the rooting kit "Vivid_All_in_One_kit_v2.2" posted on another section and the "ControlBearRelease_holiday_ICS_WIN" (if your running Win 7). After you do what they call the "wire trick" (basically short the sim reader temporarily to allow temp access to flash) you can get the sim lock off. After that it is simple trial and error with modem flashes from various tmobile devices onto the HTC Vivid to get the 3G up and going. Mine actually kicked on with the AT&T radio flashed at first but I only had coverage in certain areas. Basicly it will depend alot on your local towers. Believe it or not...ALL CELL TOWERS ARE LEASED FROM VARIOUS COMPANIES LIKE SONY ERICSON WHICH MAINTAIN THEM ALL ALMOST!!...therefore it is very dependent on the towers in your area which radios are likely to work if not the stock modem on the device. It depends on what lease and roaming agreements are in place in your region....again...I WORK ON PHONES EVERYDAY FOR SPRINT...know a little about all that stuff...trust me...i have people yelling everyday about not having this or that when most of it is the carrier hasnt signed an agreement with Kyocera or whom ever to support that device or the lease contract has expired and will be resigned in a few days....bottom line is ....if the phone has a radio chipset that supports multibands and frequencies it is almost always possible to do what ever you would like with it. As far as firmware lock....too funny...those do not work on Android devices as the chipsets were intentionally designed to be unviersal to all carriers to cut manufacturing costs...much like in automotives where Mazdas and Fords use the same parts...just a reference. Anywho....It really is possible...it just takes research and a TON of time sometimes but that is the point of hacking....most would have said the Xbox Kinect wouldnt have been able to been hacked or the Wii remote seeing as both those use internal chips that range in the thousands if sold for other purposes. Long story short....happy hacking and Thanks to all of you for a great discussion forum.

[Q] T mobile 3G/4G after unlock/debrand?

Hi All,
Is there *any* way I can get 3G/4G speeds on Samsung Focus S? I saw the unlock/debrand thread. Will it also enable 3G speeds on t-mobile network or is it hardware related and there is nothing we can do about it?
~ai2160
hardware...
My Focus S did 4G right out of the box.
The main reason you might not be able to get higher speed data lines is because of the frequencies your carrier uses to support those data feeds. Not all carriers are using the same bands. Rogers (here in Canada) uses the same bands as AT&T, so you pretty well have to wait until you can find an AT&T phone to buy to make it work.
T-Mobile in the US uses different bands, so their phones will only do E here in Canada. Likewise, and unlocked AT&T phone will only do E on T-Mobile in the US.
HOW THE F$%& do we get MMS to work if on Tmobile????
that is good
That is good? What are you talking about... @waswaser quit posting random **** to get enough posts to spam the threads! Anyways I finally got data for Tmobile and now I have MMS Woohoo! AT&T is refarming some towers so people with unlocked AT&T phones will get 3g/4g on Tmobile, that will start 2013 i believe...
"T-Mobile reiterates their wish to launch 4G HSPA+ in the 1900 band in a
large number of markets by the end of the year. Current testing shows a
33% increase in HSPA+ data speeds and improved in-building coverage.
“Rolling out 4G HSPA+ services in the 1900 MHz band will also offer
customers with the ability to use a broader range of devices"
in other words... Focus S should work @ HSPA+ by the end of the year (if you are in the right market. Which, selfishly, should include NYC)
You lucky son.... Anyways I get great reception where I life, but it's more of a rural town Northwest of SEATTLE. I've tried AT&T phones here and I get HSDPA+ so would I get it when Tmobile is done refarming? I'd be happy with 3g though as EDGE blows...
that is good

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