Which roms have the best battery life ???
James91 said:
Which roms have the best battery life ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For milestone? I would say that the 01-25 leak is the best by far.
The rest are pretty evenly matched (the CM7 base roms are mostly the same, etc)
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
On the ShadowMOD the battery life is comparable to stock 2.1. At least on build 3 - build 6. On other mods (FroyoMod, Cyanogen) it is generally lower, if you do not tune it yourself.
Leak 01-25 is not bad too, but seems a bit less stable.
Legza said:
On the ShadowMOD the battery life is comparable to stock 2.1. At least on build 3 - build 6. On other mods (FroyoMod, Cyanogen) it is generally lower, if you do not tune it yourself.
Leak 01-25 is not bad too, but seems a bit less stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How to tune it ??
I heard that froyomod has a pretty good battery life. Is it true ??
Sent from my A853 using XDA App
James91, I've meant that shadowmod seems to be better in battery life just from the moment of flashing. When using the froyomon they recommend to use it's "battery calibrate" script, or delete batterystats.bin manually, and use task killers, and so on.
I was on froyomod for 5 days and never got more than 24 hrs on battery (non-intensive use). But I did not use "calibrate" script, because I a m not sure in it's safety. On shadowmod I have 40+ hours.
Legza said:
James91, I've meant that shadowmod seems to be better in battery life just from the moment of flashing. When using the froyomon they recommend to use it's "battery calibrate" script, or delete batterystats.bin manually, and use task killers, and so on.
I was on froyomod for 5 days and never got more than 24 hrs on battery (non-intensive use). But I did not use "calibrate" script, because I a m not sure in it's safety. On shadowmod I have 40+ hours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply
I have just tried froyomod but unfortunately I got some errors on internal memory
and I turn to shadowmod again
The battery life of shadowmod (b3) is OK.
Since it would automatically kill tasks and reduce power consumption.
Sent from my A853 using XDA App
James91 said:
How to tune it ??
I heard that froyomod has a pretty good battery life. Is it true ??
Sent from my A853 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You dont need scripts to tune our phone. Use the 'bump charge' trick. There is a lot of talk about this in the CM7 thread.
1 power off phone
2 plug into wall charger
3 remove battery
4 wait for ? To appear (question mark)
5 put battery back in for LONG charge
6 flash any rom with full wipe.
This will ensure battery calibration on new ROM.
But honesly, if battery life is your thing: use the 01/25 leak. I am not sure why people disagree. The ROM is not flashy at all, but battery is at least 2x better then closest ROM. We have 4 milestones at work and everybody get at least 36 to 48 hrs of HEAVY use. Most cant get more then 12 to 16 with other ROMs.
Ppl that want battery life use that rom, ppl that want features, etc...use CM7 or others. Although some people are now moving back to the leak as themes are avaiable for it and a suprising amount of work is going into it.
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
I'm using Cronos 1.8.1 now and I'm really happy with it.
It's pretty popular among Milestone users, too bad you didn't include it.
stock roms for sure, I'm using the latest O2 leak & it's excellent in terms of power management.
s0ulreaver said:
I'm using Cronos 1.8.1 now and I'm really happy with it.
It's pretty popular among Milestone users, too bad you didn't include it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't include Cronos 1.8.1 coz I have heard that this rom has obvious battery drain.
Related
I am going to be traveling in Asia for a month. I don't need any of bells and whistles and I want a phone that is very stable, very energy efficient and GPS camera definitely has to works. Which rom/kernel will you recommend? any setting tricks? Thanks
I have tried Rod's MiuiMod, CM6.1.1, CM7 and many others.
I found that CM7 + WM 1/6/2011 kernel gives me the best battery life, but CM7 is still not in stable stage yet.
I have had the most battery life with Enomthers Rom, currently he is away on personal responsibilities but his latest stable rom is very battery efficient!
I have no recommendation as to kernel/rom combinations, but for long battery life I use this:
http://www.amazon.com/Seidio-Innocell-Battery-Google-Replacement/dp/B003FSTBP4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1296521084&sr=8-2
I got really tired of barely making through a day without having to recharge so I bought one of these. I got mine for $61 on Amazon and free shipping. It's 3200mah which is over twice the stock battery. My first full charge/discharge cycle I got over 34 hours of moderate usage and it's supposed to get better after a few charge cycles. It does make your phone about 30-40% thicker (comes with it's own custom battery cover), but for the battery life you get it's well worth the added thickness. I also find it's a little easier to hold on to.
Anyway, maybe not the solution you're looking for but for me it was well worth the money.
Just my 2 cents.
phburks said:
I have no recommendation as to kernel/rom combinations, but for long battery life I use this:
http://www.amazon.com/Seidio-Innocell-Battery-Google-Replacement/dp/B003FSTBP4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1296521084&sr=8-2
Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's one big battery Thanks tho, but I want my N1 to stay small.
I second the recommendation for Enomther's. Rock-stable.
I have no combo recommendation cuz I haven't found a really good one yet. Right now I'm using cm6.1 and wild monks kernel. It's been decent for me. But I suggest using set cpu, put on power save mode when you don't use the phone. It'll be there forever. Turn off data connection and gps as well. Also using less like half the animation helps speed up the phone and saves battery too.
Ps I'm combining inexus theme too and their icons plus the animations are amazing! My phone looks colorful as hell!
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
spx2000 said:
That's one big battery Thanks tho, but I want my N1 to stay small.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol yea it does add some bulk but it sure is reassuring to know I don't have worry about my battery dying before the day is over. I use my phone a lot and don't have time to really recharge it much and I don't like the idea of carrying extra batteries so this works very well for me.
I haven't done too many Roms, but miui has given me the most battery life out of stock, cm and miui.
I've been travelling and I managed to get 4-5 days with minimal calls and very light usage. If you use it normally with wifi and regular calls, 2-3 days is usually the limit.
Both these numbers are with auto airplane mode during my sleep hours.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
What i have heard is that CM7 is 20-30% more efficient with battery life than CM6
Not true
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
That really is a personal opinion.
xzr3b0rnzx said:
Not true
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my personal opinion, CM7 Nightlies are really stable. After a real heavy usage i.e. playing games, surfing, calls, messages, i get about 15 hours a day.
My phone is fully charged when I leave at 8 and by 8 pm battery will be somewhere between 40 and 45 % left.
Bugs are there with CM7 Nightlies but so far I haven't had any problems with it.
Recently I've been through about 3 roms, and of the three (rod's, micromod's own GB aosp, and leo's GB aosp, leo's gives me the best battery life.
It might be because he incorporated the battery driver, though.
What is the advantage of 2.3 vs. 2.2 for our phone. I know everyone likes to have the latest and greatest, but is there any features that the captivates hardware takes advantage of. For example I understand that 2.3.4 adds video chat but the captivate does not have a front facing camera. I know that the update has to have security enhancements, but what are features to get excited for with 2.3?
The voice stuff. Much more full featured without third party apps. I can say things like "set alarm 15 minutes" and be alerted.
Other than that and the fact that most development has switched to 2.3, not much.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Battery life is HUGELY extended. Gingerbread does some automatic juggling with data connections to keep usage to a minimum. Pre gingerbread I would get 6-8 hours of battery life without using a program like Juice Defender. Now I easily get 30 hours of battery life.
I thought there was a battery drain issue, was that only with cm7 or I9000 roms?
I too experience massive battery drain with Miui which is a 2.3 cm7 rom.
asrrin29, are you suggesting other 2.3 roms that aren't based on cm7 will have the extended battery life?
I get 30 plus hours with Andromeda3 with about 30% battery left , so , if battery life is one of the few reasons to flash GB I'll just stay where I'm at.
MIUI and CyanogenMod have horrible battery life. Thats their own little bug, remember they are AOSP's and they still haven't worked out the kinks on Nexus S rom to galaxy S. But Gingerbread roms have HUGE battery life increase over froyo. I can get anywhere from 12-36 hours (12 would be heavy use). Sadly Android 2.3.3 has a small little bug where android OS would start eating battery like no one's business, a reboot fixes that problem. Android 2.3.4 fixes that issue.
The battery drain on cm7 is nowhere bad as it was, I get around 18- 26 hours. and most issues have been fix as well.
speedy_11 said:
The battery drain on cm7 is nowhere bad as it was, I get around 18- 26 hours. and most issues have been fix as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get about 6-8 max on MIUI.
I'll try a non-cm7 rom.
speedy_11 said:
The battery drain on cm7 is nowhere bad as it was, I get around 18- 26 hours. and most issues have been fix as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I am basing my info from what I've read. I also think the battery issues have to do with kernel-modem combination. But when people say they are getting horrible battery life on GB rom, odds are they are on cm7 or MIUI =/
prbassplayer said:
Well I am basing my info from what I've read. I also think the battery issues have to do with kernel-modem combination. But when people say they are getting horrible battery life on GB rom, odds are they are on cm7 or MIUI =/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the kernel-modem combination
Cause i stay on the stock kernel, most other cm7 kernels tend get out date and break updates so i just stay way from them.
Miui seems to be the one with battery life issues, cm7 is getting pretty close to samsung rom battery levels.
Undervolting helps a lot with cm7/miui. I personally feel like gingerbread is smoother and the newer gb roms have some beautiful themes. Battery life is definitely better with the exception of cm7/miui.
Sent from my I897 using xda premium
Hello all,
I have seen reports that because the source code for the captivate has not been fully released, some of the processes cannot be put to sleep when they are not being used, and therefore causes bad battery life. I am just about to flash CM 7.1 and am curious to know how the battery life is on the captivate.
All info is greatly appreciated!
LWt mw know what you find out! Just flashed it and my battery goes quicker than my bank account. Please let me know what I can do to help this I like the rom
Jaye
gtabowner said:
LWt mw know what you find out! Just flashed it and my battery goes quicker than my bank account. Please let me know what I can do to help this I like the rom
Jaye
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jaye,
This happens frequently when flashing a new ROM, you should try wiping the battery stats or giving the ROM a few days to calibrate with the battery.
Been a week for me and battery life is still horrible. I lose about 25% an hour
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
ConeyKiller said:
Been a week for me and battery life is still horrible. I lose about 25% an hour
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should try a custom kernel like glitch or Neo to see if that will help. I get awesome battery life in miui which is bases of cm7. I find that neo gives me the best battery life.
Sent from my SGH-I896 running MIUI.
Vaanhoot said:
You should try a custom kernel like glitch or Neo to see if that will help. I get awesome battery life in miui which is bases of cm7. I find that neo gives me the best battery life.
Sent from my SGH-I896 running MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you think about the Boog Kernel?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1294849
Also, some people must be getting solid battery life, or CM7 wouldn't be as popular as it is. Or is this a known thing with CM7?
rcllcr said:
What do you think about the Boog Kernel?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1294849
Also, some people must be getting solid battery life, or CM7 wouldn't be as popular as it is. Or is this a known thing with CM7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get better battery life on miui and neo kernel than any samsung rom I have tried. But each phone is different.
Sent from my SGH-I896 running MIUI.
ConeyKiller said:
Been a week for me and battery life is still horrible. I lose about 25% an hour
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah that's pretty awful. Try doing a battery calibration to see if that helps. It should never go that quick (unless you're playing some serious games). I've never really had great battery life with cm7/miui I've had the best battery life with all the recent samsung gingerbread leaks. I think those are better than cm7. But that's my opinion.
I am in CM7.1 since Sunday. I had very awful battery in start. So I did battery calibration, manually. So I got very decent battery on wifi. But at work I use att data so again my battery life was horrible. But I am seeing improvement since I am using this app called green power to manage my data. Try that.
sent from my cappy rocking gingerbread
viny2cool said:
I am in CM7.1 since Sunday. I had very awful battery in start. So I did battery calibration, manually. So I got very decent battery on wifi. But at work I use att data so again my battery life was horrible. But I am seeing improvement since I am using this app called green power to manage my data. Try that.
sent from my cappy rocking gingerbread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you get good battery on WiFi but not with mobile data, try a different modem. Not only are some modems inherently better on battery, but if you find one that gives you a better signal you should see improvements in battery life as well.
Flashing the Glitch kernel seems to have improved my battery life.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
Vaanhoot said:
You should try a custom kernel like glitch or Neo to see if that will help. I get awesome battery life in miui which is bases of cm7. I find that neo gives me the best battery life.
Sent from my SGH-I896 running MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, Can you point me to a post that (a) has the Neo Kernel and (b) explains how to flash it on MIUI? I've had MIUI for a couple of months now and battery is to as good as expected. Would love to try to use another Kernel but I sincerely don't know how to do it.
Thanks in advance,
Mauricio
I just love MIUI, no battery problems for me. Gets me through 2 days of moderate usage so I'm a happy camper.
I just wish it had the Audience chip workingg...
MauricioJancic said:
Hi, Can you point me to a post that (a) has the Neo Kernel and (b) explains how to flash it on MIUI? I've had MIUI for a couple of months now and battery is to as good as expected. Would love to try to use another Kernel but I sincerely don't know how to do it.
Thanks in advance,
Mauricio
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah here is the link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1247213. The download is half way down. Flash in recovery.
Sent from my SGH-I896 running MIUI.
Solid Battery Life w/ Stock Kernel
Hey Everyone,
Juts came to report that I have been getting great battery life using the stock kernel. I would say it is a little better than Serendipty VII Build 2 which I came from. Only issue, and this is something I know is inherently wrong with Cyanogenmod on the Captivate, when you fully charge the device, it only shows it is charged to 98%.
Other than that, all good!
rcllcr said:
Hey Everyone,
Juts came to report that I have been getting great battery life using the stock kernel. I would say it is a little better than Serendipty VII Build 2 which I came from. Only issue, and this is something I know is inherently wrong with Cyanogenmod on the Captivate, when you fully charge the device, it only shows it is charged to 98%.
Other than that, all good!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true, you need to calibrate your batter!!!!
I get awesome battery using wifi all day long, with auto brightness, music and videos often.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
b-eock said:
Not true, you need to calibrate your batter!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oooohhhhh, sweet! I thought this was a common issue. I remember it was during the nightlies.
I am using the following application:
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.nema.batterycalibration&feature=search_result&rdid=com.nema.batterycalibration&rdot=1
I will report back!
viny2cool said:
I am in CM7.1 since Sunday. I had very awful battery in start. So I did battery calibration, manually. So I got very decent battery on wifi. But at work I use att data so again my battery life was horrible. But I am seeing improvement since I am using this app called green power to manage my data. Try that.
sent from my cappy rocking gingerbread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you seen an improvement in this regards, I am having the same issues, the WiFi is draining my battery slower then my data is.
I have also done the battery calibration and it doesn't seem AS bad... still doesn't appear to be great though.
I am just coming back to this ROM after experiencing battery issues even though Glitch helped a little. I decided to try and tweak some more this go round.
I am experiencing much better results this time. Here are settings and other tweaks or modifications I have in place.
-sync is turned off
-using Launcher Pro with very few widgets (just 3GWatchdog and Power Control)
-auto brightness turn off manually adjust according to need
-gps, wifi, BT, and data turned off when not in use
-wifi notification and location detect off
-installed jk4 modem (may get better results with different modem depending on your area)
-installed Glitch v12 high leakage
-the biggest factor this time I think is UVing on the Freqs that are used while phone sleeps >>>>>100/200mhz (set for the lowest UV setting possible on these that do not result in a sleep death or reboot when phone is put to sleep)
Guys i use SwiftDroid ASIS but my battery is drained in like 12 hours if i let 3G turned on. Otherwise its still dead in 18 hours anyway. What is the best battery saving ROM in all ?
Airplane mode ROM.
just a joke... lol
i think that froyo is best on battery life.
There is basically no advice to extend battery life on the optimus without the additional expense of an extended battery.
MrAndroid12 said:
There is basically no advice to extend battery life on the optimus without the additional expense of an extended battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much and where?
Sent from my GT540 using Tapatalk
The best battery to power ratio has the 2.2.2 foryo with fully working .32 kernel from pcfighter
http://pebe.boo.pl/blog/2011/11/26/aosp-2-2-2-v2-2/
The stock 2.1 ROM has the best battery life.
Sent from my GT540 using XDA App
yeah mike made a 2.1 rom with bfs and all kinds of other stuff but it does not have root or jit
The best rom that has a great battery life is 2.1.
As our phone is getting older and older (I have it since 9/2010), also battery is getting weaker. So, I want to stick to a 2.1 ROM and want your advices. Besides battery performance, important for me are: stable wifi and fast gps lock. thx for reading : )
I forgot to mention: I want your advice on which 2.1 ROM I should use?
Yes, stock 2.1 Eclair is the absolute winner in terms of battery life. I remember I had 4 days with normal usage, good old times
yep using it now (well no really stock v20e light version by miro) watch 2 hrs of video nonstop still above 97
bs828 said:
yep using it now (well no really stock v20e light version by miro) watch 2 hrs of video nonstop still above 97
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is the ROM you are using, the best 2.1 ROM in your opinion? I was using greendroid for 3-4 days, great battery life, but I saw wifi disconnecting after some time and keep saying: obtaining address...
Did you use a 2.2 ROM coming close to the 2.1 in battery performance? (Only flash support is pushing me not to go back to 2.1)
Well in my experience any 2.3 ROM can last 2 days if overclock is under 700MHz, brightness about 50%, use 2G only when not going on internet etc. With 2.2 ROMs you can get even more battery life, and with 2.1 the most. It depend how much you need.
Project utopia is the most stable fastest 2.2 I have ever used very similar to 2.1
Now I can also highly recommend SDSL prefinal, now I'm on 50% battey after 3 days of use! (it just passed the 3day mark). All this with low-mid usage, so I think this is also awesome from a 2.3 rom!
And I use 122-806MHz with smartassv2 governor, so if you don't OC at all, you can reach even higher battery lifetime! I'm curious whether can I reach the magic 4 days of constant use on GB.
good luck to you maybe screen off set to 480-122 smartassv2
Hey guys. I only want to ask which rom do you think is the bettest for battery life.
Thanks.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
My suggestion would be stock gingerbread with speedmod kernel k2-12, i used to get around 4 days with normal use.
That sounds nice. Do you have heavy use of yout phone? Or only deep sleep all the time?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
I use it for playing games, little music, calls and messaging. Sometimes connect to Wi-fi. With the same in ICS i get around 2 days.
okay thank you i´ll try. :fingers-crossed:
to set expectations straight, expect thought about 4.5 hours nonstop usage on gb with speedmod kernel.
4 hours on ics with speedmod
alk stock dont expect more then 3 to 3.5 hours.
you only get 2 days if you dont synch, barely use phone and are in good reception area with data switched off always.
Note general tips which can be found in the 10000plus threads about battery drain and how to analyse deepsleep issues
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
baz77 said:
to set expectations straight, expect thought about 4.5 hours nonstop usage on gb with speedmod kernel.
4 hours on ics with speedmod
alk stock dont expect more then 3 to 3.5 hours.
you only get 2 days if you dont synch, barely use phone and are in good reception area with data switched off always.
Note general tips which can be found in the 10000plus threads about battery drain and how to analyse deepsleep issues
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I don't connect to data. And don't sync also. :angel:
Suggestion( i hope )
robotnikz said:
Hey guys. I only want to ask which rom do you think is the bettest for battery life.
Thanks.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium[/QUOT
I don't know whether you like gingerbread roms or not , but till date the rom with which I got maximum battery backup with modeate to heavy usage was CheckRom Revo HD V6. This rom never lags , best battery life , and good speed .
If you are Gingerbread hater and ICS lover , then you can try Rocketrom v7( very good battery life with the included kernel , and would be much better with Speedmod Kernel (latest version) ). And then you have CleaNote V2.30 ( V3.0 has bluetooth glitches but its faster , if you are bluetooth user i would suggest you to stick with V2.30 ) , I personally love CleaNote because it has stock look and very fluidic :good: and as the tagline says 'You dont want any theme forced down to your throat '. KingDroid are good at speed but many have reported few glitches with it , you may try it if you like ( I dont like KingDroid , its sth personal ). If you hate Samsung's bloatware then we have Cassie's XtraLite rom for your rescue :cyclops:. Its a good rom too .
Well finally to end , I use cyanogenmod 9 and i update it everyday and with each update it gets more fluid and responsive, fast , smooth . i just love cyanogenmod9 ( waiting for cm10 ).
ParanoidAndroid are for ppl who love fun , who want to showoff their phone , the ability of their phone , the sweet hybrid interface of their phone , its for geeks :-0 .
Make a choice or try all of them :good::good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think if u get deep sleep all time, battery long life every rom
With crash v6 and notecore 3.1 i have 4hours screen on and 15% battery left
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
robotnikz said:
Hey guys. I only want to ask which rom do you think is the bettest for battery life.
Thanks.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am using CLASSIC V1+15 toggle with MOD V1 which is ICS 4.0.4, and I also updated kernel to chainfire LRG, which is more stable and smooth, battery life is excellent comparatively to all other ROMs so far.
Which is around 4% drain per hour, I have (facebook, wechat, LINE, mitalk, whatsapp, email, exchange service, maps, mixed chinese input, make your own clock) running and leaving it on idle.
Tony.
Link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1765307
For the past 2 years of beeing a S galaxy user, I've quite looked for best battery life at top performance. Most of the time, battery life is no longer measured in "days" of usage , like we used to do with our Nokia phones. Nowadays, you ten to look at display (screen on) time , CPU profiles, and also connectivity patterns.
You can think of battery life as a factor of the above mentioned, however I think that display time is the most important parameter related to battery life. CPU profiles, connectivity, tend to work only when you have your screen on, and from my experience, you tend not to extend your usage time by more than 10-20%.
So as a conclusion, I did not expect a specific rom / kernel configuration to offer more "screen on" time but to offer a more faster way to do my tasks therefore I did more tasks in almost the same display time.
At the end of the day, it is more important how you USE your device rather than finding a "magical" combination that will increase your battery life.
KID + SpeedMod
+1 for GB (i was using checkrom but i'm sure any gb rom will give similar effects) with Speedmod.
If you make setcpu to 200mhz on screen off, i find it uses almost no power at all when it's on standby.
Like it was on 77% when i went to bed.
Woke up in the morning and it was on 78% (i was like lolwut).
Yay for setcpu.
But seriously though, any GB rom will give you considerably more battery life than any ics rom.
ROM
The best ROM for a battery-HALF ILLUSION and placed on the scale smartas governor.
Try and tell me your impressions.
the best rom for battery
robotnikz said:
Hey guys. I only want to ask which rom do you think is the bettest for battery life.
Thanks.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the best rom for battery is Criskelo's ICS V9
I bet this is the best custom rom on battery savings, try it you will not regret it. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722038