Database Develop

The Bad and Ugly of American Cell Phones

Not quite a super hero, by day I am your average, 3rd tier tech support representative for a certain (pretty damn easy to figure out if you’re not a complete idiot) cell phone company. Throughout the rest of my life, I’m an angry computer geek, lashing out at just about everyone (hey, why discriminate?) that gets in my way.
So I’ve got a few things rolling around in my mind about these mobile devices and I’m looking for input at the end of this mess, as usual. Remember though, Confucius says, “There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.”
Here’s a bit of a rundown of the modern American cell phone. You’ll probably find a bit on cell phone plans/contracts in here, too. To be honest, I normally just ramble on until something makes enough sense to post, so I don’t know what all will be listed.
I personally believe the last “innovation” that should have happened for the cell phone is the clock. For about 75% of the people I talk to each day, that’s enough. See I’m all about customer service and the reason I’m not in sales is because the same people I talk to daily on the phone are the ones I would deter from buying anything other than a Jitterbug. They can’t use it. When I’m trying to explain to someone how to backup their information and they don’t know what the “Start” button is on their computer, they have no reason owning any phone that could be considered a PDA. Personally, I would like a netbook that made phone calls. I don’t want something Zoolander-ish, because I have fat fingers and expect too much from a device I can type on.
However, my “vision” will never be. There will always be idiots with too much money for their own good, but at least I’ll always have a job somewhere.
Now that I’ve got that out of the way, here’s a list of some current “features” of cell phones and the good and bad about them.
QWERTY Keyboards – These are great when people actually use them. I’ll never understand what the point is when they’re still typing in gibberish. “OMG!! U r so fun e!”
SMS Messages – A great concept ruined by greed. Why do we only have 160 characters to use in a text message? I read somewhere that it came about because it was the amount of characters as one line of text on a typewriter. That could be wrong, but real question should be, “Why do we still only have 160 characters to use in a text message?” Greed. SMS is beyond cheap for the carriers, but they will charge you 10 and 20 cents per message sent and received.
MMS Messages – Limited depending on the carrier to as little as 300kb. I tell customers each day to use email instead, because it’s not limited and it is more reliable. Ideally, they would make this invisible to the user, and just have the phones email each other. Realistically, we charge another 10 to 20 cents per message, for something that is easier to do than getting an STD from a hooker.
E911 (GPS) – Now included in every phone you can buy, because it’s required by law. I’m sure the FCC was worried about your safety when they made carriers track every cell phone within 100 meters… Riiiight. But I’m doing my best not to rant on the government so I’ll leave it at that. Fascists.
Touch Screens – “Why can’t I keep it my pocket with my keys?” Yes, I’ve heard this, and yes, they were serious. Negative for normal people? Touch Screen capabilities are great, and cheaper to make now than ever before. But the manufacturer will charge more for this just because they can. Don’t worry, you’ll get your 3D fix soon too.
USB/Other Serial Ports – These are great for people that want to physically connect their devices while syncing, but normally these ports are on the bottom of the phone, and people setting their phones in damp cup holders cause water damage to the device. Would it be harder to put this on the side? No, but how would they make money that way?
Minutes – Local, Long Distance, Roaming, International, International Roaming, Roaming on a Partner Network, Daytime, Nighttime, Weekend, Holiday, Inter-carrier, Intra-carrier, Circle… No matter what they tell you, no matter what they tell their employees, they make this confusing on purpose. How else are the carriers going to charge hundreds per month?
Internet/Data/Email/etc. – Having access to the web is a great convenience. Now I can watch that Jib Jab movie. Oh wait, that’s Flash, that doesn’t work in most of the phones… Oh, wait! I can watch Netflix! Oh, no I can’t. Well at least I can pay more for the web on my phone than I pay for it at home and get half the functionality…
Contracts – I don’t necessarily disagree with contracts, but part of why many people don’t treat their devices like they are expensive pieces of equipment is because they don’t have to pay for them. If more people had to pay $200-$500 for their flashy cell phone they may actually take care of the damn thing, which leads me to...
Insurance – There is no reason the carrier should be involved in this. Say we didn’t have insurance, and you had to get it, and any tech support, from the cell phone manufacturer. I’m not exactly a nice guy to people who call in that have bought one phone, seven years ago, but have managed to ***** to enough people to get them replaced by the carrier. The carrier should stay out of the hardware game, and there should be no such thing as “locks” on the devices. I don’t have to buy a new computer (or even a modem) when I switch ISPs. Oh ****, I hope Charter doesn’t read that…
Most of these things could be fixed if people just refused to pay for crappy service. I don’t like supporting sweatshops, so I don’t shop at Wal-Mart. It is your choice… You don’t need a cell phone. Anyways, that’s enough out of me. Like I said up there, I want your input, because I like to hear what you guys have to say.
Thanks again for being bored enough to read all of that,
Drunk

There are two types of people in this world, consumers, and well people who actually pay attention. . .
If people payed attention now adays cellphones would be way different lol.

Qwerty keyboards - I agree with your comment. Perhaps the gibberish typing still exists because of the 160 character limit for SMS? Or perhaps they're just acting like crazed 12 year olds...
MMS - I never understood why anyone would use MMS over email. The size limit means that anything you send will just not be of any high quality. You might as well not send it.
I/O ports - I don't agree with moving these ports to the side. I've had a 2 devices with side I/O ports and it was quite awkward. Besides, having it on the bottom allows 3rd parties to easily make docks. Perhaps the smarter solution would be to not put your device into a damp cup holder?
Data - It's inevitable that mobile data is going to be more expensive than your home broadband. But prices have been coming down in the past years. And if you tether your device to your laptop, you have the full web experience.

I actually see the benefit of tethering growing as we bring on new technologies, but they're going to charge more for tethering if they allow it at all, which only validates my complaint even more.

I wanted to add that technology should work for us, not the other way around. Personally, I would avoid the cupholder but it should be on the manufacturer to move this, for phones and docks alike.

People buying complex devices for basic needs, and being surprised when they don't work seamlessly, is definitely a major problem and happens accross a wide variety of sectors.
Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you should have it
I agree that having the port at the bottom makes more sense, astheticall and in terms of docs & accessories. I guess I've never placed my phone in a wet cupholder.

I have notice that when i'm in a country like India, china etc, a single call is cheaper than a us dollar... Is it because of population differences ?, Canada only has a population of 34 million. In USA you have cheap ass data plan ( unlimited data) while in Canada its 30 dollars for only 500 mb...

$30 for unlimited isn't exactly cheap, although definitely better than in Canada. Overall pricing in the US is pretty bad, especially on voice and texting (seriously, texting should be free if you have a data plan).

[Q] I need honest answer PLEASE

Is this phone and company worth switching over too ? Do to Sprints changing my plan without my approval,I have the opportunity to switch to another carrier.Out of the other big 3 Verizon,T-mobile & AT&T is the only one that is willing to put their offer in writting to me. The other reason I am even looking at this phone and company is because both of my sons want the IPhone and my wife only wants a phone offered by them as well..
So..please fellow XDA members tell me staright up..should I stay with Sprint and my Hero for 1-1/2 years more..or start fresh with this phone and AT&T..
Mac

50 views and not even 1 response..?
Is there no one on-line that has this phone wanting to step up and answer the question ?
I really would like to know the feelings of the folks here,since those that have this phone also have AT&T's service..
Mac

Not an easy one to answer really. I would say if you are completely turned of by what Sprint did to you then changing wouldn't be a bad thing. Going with AT&T will get you points with your family. And who couldn't use more points with their family, right?
That being said, you have by now undoubtedly heared about the GPS problems facing the Galaxy S phones. Some have found their phone is better with different versions, some claim all the updates and changes have made their GPS unuseable. If you are in need of a phone that has good GPS then I would say you can find better. Personally, the GPS issue isn't a deal breaker for me. I am also one of the lucky ones that find it works fine for how I use it.
The phone itself is amazing. Being on XDA also helps as there are many helpful and informative people. Also, the Captivate has been out long enough that the mods are becomming better and better every day, that is if you are into modding your phone. Heck, stock it still is a good phone.
So it all boils down to what you really want to do. I think that is why you haven't had anyone jump on giving you an answer. Good luck my friend!

There is no "right carrier". The advantage of AT&T (now) is coverage and GSM. AT&T has better coverage then T-Mobile, but about equal to VZW. GSM allows you take your phone to Europe - VZW CDMA does not;
But the future brings change - VZW has a slew of World phones coming out (they have GSM as well as CDMA) - VZW has LTE coming out - which is supposed to be a global standard - so travel issue may be a thing of the past.
AT&T has the iPhone today, but rumor says a CDMA iPhone on VZW for the holidays. But rumors are rumors.
I don't know what you are looking for in writing - all the carriers plans are on their web site. T-Mo does have the best customer service, and VZW has some great android phones. If you don't travel much, and T-Mo has good coverage where you live, they seem to have the best prices and some of the best phones.
AT&T is fine too - not trying to steer you away. I moved to AT&T for an iPhone years ago - and I travel to EU; so VZW wasn't cutting it.
Anyway If the family wants AT&T and the price for phones and service fits, then make the move. But you are stuck for 2 years.

Sounds like it's 3-1 in your house. I'd go ahead and make the switch if thats what your family wants. I don't think you'll be worse off with one carrier over the other, at the end of the day they will all screw you. Captivate is a great phone if you can deal with the sometimes difficult to deal with GPS.

I agree. Go with what makes your family happy overall. The Captivate is a fine device, and I've been much more pleased with it than I was with my iPhone. Talk it over with your family, putting them first won't do you wrong.

My first phone was from Virgin Mobile and was prepaid. I know they leased out network access from Sprint. It was awful. I never had good coverage, and then they started charging more for everything. I left them.
I've been with AT&T now since 6th grade. They've never screwed us over, they've always been helpful, and whenever we've had problems, like my sister signing up for those joke things they advertise on tv putting huge data charges on our bill, they cleared it up right away and even gave us a credit on the account.
Of course you're going to hear horror stories of bad customer service from everyone, but really it's not all that common. I've always thought AT&T had great phones, and they've all last me a long time.
My favorite phones have always been Samsung ones as all but one of my phones has been from them. My first was a Sony Ericsson S710a and it lasted me until one day I was sliding it open, and it slipped out of my hand and into a wall and the LCD shattered. After that I had a Samsung a727, then the SGH-i607 Blackjack, then the SGH-a877 Impression, and now the Captivate.
You will be happier with AT&T then with Sprint. But ultimately, you pay the bill and you decide where your money goes. I'll just add that I don't usually praise any company for no reason.

I love this phone with ji6 gps works completely fine for me it does what its supposed to every time lately gets me there no issues. Im very happy with att besides they make you pay for tethering, but theres ways around that with this phone, hehe ;-)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Thanks Guys..
I hate spending a-lot more money so soon on moving my service (since may 2010)..but I really don't know how I could stay with them.
As to any cell company posting their policy on line..well..that can and does change (with Sprint almost daily)..and actually having a written signed contract is something the other companies won't do,AT&T will.That does a lot for me..and for my wife peace of mind.My boys have wanted the I phones for sometime..I don't want one..which is why I am asking about the Captivate. BTW...Sprint elected to change my verbal contract given to me at the time of signing..and I fought it the best I could without turning my Lawyers loose..and I most likely would have won,but the cost to do so would have been prohibitive without a written contract,or so what they told me when I spoke to them about it..
So..the phone has a GPS problem..and that isn't a deal breaker for me,but I do want to see it fixed and soon.Having a 2.2 rom is what I am running on my hero now along with one of the best looking themes going right now IMHO..http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=797077 and so hopefully we can get this ported over here at some point..even if I have to learn how to do it myself
FWIW..I looked closely at this phone and also the Ios4 and hands down this one blows it out of the water on anything video..I stopped by T-Mobile and watched the HD Avatar movie on their version when I was looking at what they offered...It was just awesome..simply jaw dropping..
I am looking forward to the 2.2 upgrade and what comes after with it..So..I will be on here more and more reading what I can..
Thanks Again
Mac

Mac, just a heads up. The leaked 2.2 rom we have actually fixed the GPS. There's no real problem anymore. Obviously it will become more refined when the final release comes out but it definitely works now.
Sent from my Captivate

stuffy is a difficult company but I can't feral with poor service so I disk with them. get used to advanced features like tethering being blocked and such. but you can fix that by looking in the dev section. att isn't all bad though mostly because they are stupid, I told them verizon had a 15% vetrans discount (they do) and asked att if they had something similar. well they didn't but the customer service rep put me on an active duty discount because she didn't know better. it needs to be approved at a higher level with pics of my id and a valid military email according to there website, well I put the papers in anyway and had 15% off my bill the next month. so they obviously don't look at it.
verizons version of bloatware is full blown add ware. if you plug an incredible into a windows pc it hijacks explorer and goes to a v cast music site. on the fascinate they replaced the google services with microsoft services.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

I think it's refreshing to see all the honest answers, not a ton of chest pounding "our phone is the best" posts. Most people on XDA by nature are into tweaking so the out-of-the-box limitations aren't a showstopper.
For me, I really need a world-capable phone. My family also is on ATT so that helped as well. I think all the carriers are converging on offering similar product. ATT has less HTC stuff but has the IPhone. ATT is currently behind on Android, but the Captivate is certainly helping to address that. I like the phone and have recommended it friends. Go for it.

miztaken1312 said:
Mac, just a heads up. The leaked 2.2 rom we have actually fixed the GPS. There's no real problem anymore. Obviously it will become more refined when the final release comes out but it definitely works now.
Sent from my Captivate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool..that is good news..
Thanks
Mac

I will give my two bits. My experience has been good with att. Cs has never been bad, but at times there were moments that did not go smoothly. Always quick to address concerns of mine and they love giving credits out to keep me happy. I have been one of the lucky that never had major problems out of the box with the captivate. But coming from a storm running on atti think my standard were lower. Gps on froyo still doesn't work perfectly but has had improvement with locking and tracking. Dev support is actually really good so that is a big plus. My wife loves her captivate and she is not a techie at all. Hope my input helps.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

flashman2002 said:
I will give my two bits. My experience has been good with att. Cs has never been bad, but at times there were moments that did not go smoothly. Always quick to address concerns of mine and they love giving credits out to keep me happy. I have been one of the lucky that never had major problems out of the box with the captivate. But coming from a storm running on atti think my standard were lower. Gps on froyo still doesn't work perfectly but has had improvement with locking and tracking. Dev support is actually really good so that is a big plus. My wife loves her captivate and she is not a techie at all. Hope my input helps.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does,and greatly appreciated..
I understand the gps issue,and I am wondering if the delayed release of FroYo on this phone is partly because of it. Rooting and adding on customs roms has been working great for me on my Hero..and that phone is finnally acting the way it should have all along. Removing AT&T's bloatware will be my first priority after 2.2 is released..
I am curious about one thing..I know you can't load 3rd party apps unless rooted and a custom rom..but can you direct push them with the sd out of the phone and in a reader from a pc ? If we are working out of windows and a terminal..we should be able to insert any .apk or what we want.. anywhere we want..can't we ?
Thanks Again Guys
Mac

mobius911 said:
I think it's refreshing to see all the honest answers, not a ton of chest pounding "our phone is the best" posts. Most people on XDA by nature are into tweaking so the out-of-the-box limitations aren't a showstopper.
For me, I really need a world-capable phone. My family also is on ATT so that helped as well. I think all the carriers are converging on offering similar product. ATT has less HTC stuff but has the IPhone. ATT is currently behind on Android, but the Captivate is certainly helping to address that. I like the phone and have recommended it friends. Go for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here..I know folks have their favorites and also know there will always be folks that have problems..but it is refreshing to see a honest straight forward discussion with out any of the fan fair these types of threads always seem to degenerate into.
Mac

Mac11700 said:
I am curious about one thing..I know you can't load 3rd party apps unless rooted and a custom rom..but can you direct push them with the sd out of the phone and in a reader from a pc ? If we are working out of windows and a terminal..we should be able to insert any .apk or what we want.. anywhere we want..can't we ?
Thanks Again Guys
Mac
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can push them using ADB or even easier, if you google something called the "Android Central Sideload Wonder Machine" or just sideload wonder machine, someone created an app to so that you don't even have to use the command prompt or hack the phone. No need for a custom rom, and I don't believe rooting is needed.
Here, I'll link you to it.
SIDELOAD WONDER MACHINE

I made the switch you are thinking of about 1.5 years ago and I have no regrets. One thing to keep in mind is the data cap ATT now has on their new subscribers. I signed up when unlimited was an offering, and honestly I don't know that I would have been comfortable using 1 smartphone, let alone 3-4 of them with limited data usage. ATT also had better coverage where I lived last year but would say Sprint is on par within the city limits now. The Evo is a really nice phone (Several people I know have them and are pleased) but I won't go back to Sprint after all the horrible customer service I had with them for 8 years. My local ATT business rep does an incredible job and is a big reason that I just renewed with them(they let me keep unlimited data). Ultimately, if I was in your shoes, I would probably do what made my family/wife happy as long as it isn't going to cause financial heartache when you exceed the data limit. I think they charge in blocks of 200mb for overage but you should definitely look into how much data your family has/will be using. My .02
Edited to add: Depending on what kind of user you are (business/personal) you might want to leave that cog. 2.2 alone until it works. I loaded it last weekend, went out to a job, and was unable to d-load an important pdf that was in my e-mail. Fortunately I had a laptop but in the past I would have been able to count on my phone for a quick blueprint reference. Sounds like it may be a fun thing to play with as long as you don't REALLY need everything on your phone to work. Also, the GPS was horrid on cog. 2.2. Needless to say I flashed it back to the original software when I got home. My GPS works just fine after the JH7 OTA update was installed. Worked yesterday on a 2 hour drive where I only had phone coverage for 20-30 miles. I haven't "tweaked" the GPS settings, just whatever they changed with JH7 is working.

itsjustaphone said:
I made the switch you are thinking of about 1.5 years ago and I have no regrets. One thing to keep in mind is the data cap ATT now has on their new subscribers. I signed up when unlimited was an offering, and honestly I don't know that I would have been comfortable using 1 smartphone, let alone 3-4 of them with limited data usage. ATT also had better coverage where I lived last year but would say Sprint is on par within the city limits now. The Evo is a really nice phone (Several people I know have them and are pleased) but I won't go back to Sprint after all the horrible customer service I had with them for 8 years. My local ATT business rep does an incredible job and is a big reason that I just renewed with them(they let me keep unlimited data). Ultimately, if I was in your shoes, I would probably do what made my family/wife happy as long as it isn't going to cause financial heartache when you exceed the data limit. I think they charge in blocks of 200mb for overage but you should definitely look into how much data your family has/will be using. My .02
Edited to add: Depending on what kind of user you are (business/personal) you might want to leave that cog. 2.2 alone until it works. I loaded it last weekend, went out to a job, and was unable to d-load an important pdf that was in my e-mail. Fortunately I had a laptop but in the past I would have been able to count on my phone for a quick blueprint reference. Sounds like it may be a fun thing to play with as long as you don't REALLY need everything on your phone to work. Also, the GPS was horrid on cog. 2.2. Needless to say I flashed it back to the original software when I got home. My GPS works just fine after the JH7 OTA update was installed. Worked yesterday on a 2 hour drive where I only had phone coverage for 20-30 miles. I haven't "tweaked" the GPS settings, just whatever they changed with JH7 is working.
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Click to collapse
Dam good advise..Thanks
They charge in 1 gig allotments for overages now..not 200 mb. I too was worried about doing just this..and this is per line..not per plan. I went back through all of my bills and no-one has even come close to 1gig..let alone 2 gigs..but I understand that can change too.
The main thing for me and my family is getting a phone that is going to work..every time. I've run into some issues with mine on my job where I needed it and something crashed it. Also it's so tiresome for me to hear all the complaints and moaning when something crashes or FC's on their phones..I can deal with it happening on mine cause I am used to tinkering with it..but I have to say I am very tempted some by the I 4's simplicity...it would be nice just to not have to worry about updating mine almost daily,and just use the durn thing. I just don't know if I could deal with it or not as a day to day phone. I am at a loss in that regards..I know you can jailbreak them and do similar things we do with our Androids..but..I don't know enough about that to even consider doing it right now. I most likely would just so I could download apps and movies on it to watch from my pc..I got a week to figure this all out..and you all here are helping a-lot..
Thanks
Mac

I honestly liked the iphone4, and had one for a week. It was fun and all, but it had the same problem as my 3G, the ability to make and MAINTAIN a phone call. Obviously that isn't much of an issue for younger kids since you can still text with spotty coverage(my 13 yo uses about 60 min. a month and 1,000,000,000,000 text messages) I don't know if the iphone is somehow on a different signal than the other phones, but I have been very pleased with the PHONE CALL ability of the captivate. My wife loves the iphone (though she keeps eyeballing the captivate now) and like you, I do not enjoy fixing problems, so I have tried my best to keep her interest in my phone at a minimum. I can honestly say I do not miss the iphone for anything. I also enjoy the *cough cough* wireless tethering of my captivate(free app) that iphone never did get right(and when it did work, there was the whole loss of signal issue). The iphone is good at running apps and texting, outstanding even. I just really need to make phone calls and MAINTAIN a call when I make it. But like I said in my previous post, if your use is personal, iphone might work. If you make important calls, it fails.

[EVENT] Mass Return of our HTC Vivid

If enough people are interested, I had an idea that DFW XDA members all return their Vivids at the same time for a mass return at the AT&T HQ store in order to make a statement. This is the heart of their operation. We can discuss this, but what I and others came up with so far is:
AT&T Mass Return
Tuesday December 6th at 1:00pm
208 S Akard Street
STE 110
Dallas, TX 75202
Customer Parking Available for 2 hours at:
1600 Commerce Street
Dallas, TX 75201
Everyone is invited. Whether you have a Vivid or not. I understand not everyone lives here, but all are welcome none the less.
Thanks to Radi0chik
What do you guys think of this idea?

Reclaim said:
If enough people are interested, I had an idea that DFW XDA members all return their Vivids at the same time for a mass return at the AT&T HQ store in order to make a statement. This is the heart of their operation. We can discuss this, but what I and others came up with so far is:
AT&T Mass Return
Tuesday December 6th at 1:00pm
208 S Akard Street
STE 110
Dallas, TX 75202
Customer Parking Available for 2 hours at:
1600 Commerce Street
Dallas, TX 75201
Everyone is invited. Whether you have a Vivid or not. I understand not everyone lives here, but all are welcome none the less.
Thanks to Radi0chik
What do you guys think of this idea?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great idea.
Returned it already though.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium

I bought mine from Amazonwireless... and I've already asked for an exchange to the skyrocket.
Plus the fact that I have school then doesn't help, but if I could come, I would.

can some one help me decide on what phone to get on sunday once i return mine?
i think that lg nitro hd is nice, but ive heard the ui sucks on it... so i was thinking either that new google nexus phone (sorry, im new to android and cant remember all these pohones) or the gs2... id rather have the og gs2 cause its faster than the skyrocket and i dont care to have lte

randrewm97 said:
can some one help me decide on what phone to get on sunday once i return mine?
i think that lg nitro hd is nice, but ive heard the ui sucks on it... so i was thinking either that new google nexus phone (sorry, im new to android and cant remember all these pohones) or the gs2... id rather have the og gs2 cause its faster than the skyrocket and i dont care to have lte
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea if your going to go with a gs2 Definitely get the OG. The Skyrocket has issues with screen resolution and such. As far as the LG Nitro goes I think that is up in the air considering it is going to have a full 720p screen. I am actually slightly leaning toward the LG just because of that but I still need to research it a little bit more.

Yes. I am wondering the same. Though I'm not sure if it will be rooted... New to thus android world. Also, I'm not sure how the devs will take the phone. I heard the lg ui is like touchwiz but retarded... Not meaning to insult. I'm hoping someone will do a good overview of the nitro by sunday
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App

randrewm97 said:
I heard the lg ui is like touchwiz but retarded...
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
IMO, both of those UIs are on par with excrement. On day 1 of owning my Captivate, I switched launchers. Even on Froyo/GB, I could not put up with it and just went full AOSP launcher-wise. If the LG launcher is the same, I know that I won't like it for sure.
Sense is the only aftermarket UI that I like, hence why I ended up with this phone.
EDIT: Also, what's even the point of this? Sending a message to AT&T about this phone would do nothing with you guys mass-returning it. After the event, you wouldn't even care what happened to this device's development life anyway, while you guys all go for Nitros or Skyrockets or whatever phone fits your fancy.

Occupy AT&T....not a chance
You mad cause you have no root...?
Root doesn't allow you to do much anyway other than to either overclock your CPU, make a complete backup of your rom, flash any random rom you want etc...
All the phones have the same CPU chipset, you're just paying for different screen resolutions and plastic shells that cover everything
Samsung couldn't even use its custom CPU because it lacked the ability to incorporate LTE technology, so they chose the Snapdragon S3 APQ8060 dual-core CPU...the same one in the Vivid, and the same one is in the LG Nitro.
Its the only CPU capable of allowing AT&T's 4gLTE service to run smooth for the end user
So go ahead, boycott the Vivid, youre only benefit is a screen with a smaller resolution or a screen with a higher resolution, plus youre still gonna pay the difference plus a $35 restocking fee is applicable...

It seems to me that the problem isn't the Vivid. It's AT&T. If you really want to make a statement then keep this amazing phone, cancel your contracts with AT&T, and allow the devs to continue working on unlocking and fully rooting the device which you know they will. This will do two things. One: send a message to AT&T that will cost them BIG-TIME. Two:Once the devs see how many people are willing to SACRIFICE their wireless mobility for such a great device, they may release a carrier unlock and varying radio support for the different competitors for the vivid. There are some major competitors that offer much better rates and data packages with full LTE support that DON'T lock bootloaders.
It seems silly to put such a serious and damaging halt to great development just because you're unwilling to sever the head of the snake, whereas mass returns will accomplish nothing. Well, not nothing, but if you REALLY want this problem addressed, make AT&T pay with the sudden loss of income. HTC isn't the problem. The Vivid isn't the problem. Big corporations have insurance policies to protect them when there's a problem with inventory/product defects/returns etc. But losing customers.. That just plain sucks for ANY business. Hit them where it hurts. The Next big awesome phone you want will just be locked up tight as well unless you send a CLEAR message they CAN'T ignore.
The Vivid counterpart in Canada (Raider) has already had great roms and kernels that work and are supported/updated every couple of days. I love this phone more and more and would switch carriers in a heartbeat if the company I pay my hard earned money to EVERY Month wasn't treating me like a VALUED customer. AT&T KNOWS what they're doing. They KNOW that what they're continuuing to do is WRONG. But they aren't listening becuase the customers aren't willing to lose they're precious contract they've worked so hard for.
Yes, it means going without the ability to use your nice phone for a little while. Yes it will suck having NO cellphone at all with all it's nice features at your disposal and whim. Maybe getting a junker from a better provider and waiting for the devs is asking too much.
Either that or stop and realize you've had your phone for ONE month. Forget everything I've said about teaching your carrier a lesson, and show some support for xda (maybe a little faith and gratitude as well) because they LOVE tinkering with HTC's products. I wonder sometimes if there would even BE an XDA team without HTC. Be patient, or teach them a REAL lesson in customer service. The alternative is YOU losing out, and feeling all proud and happy for giving up something you once loved. But then again nobody wants to admit they're ACTUALLY PAYING AT&T to treat us like prisoners. Stripping you of your right to DO WITH YOUR PROPERTY THAT WHICH YOU FEEL LIKE DOING.
While we're at it let's all go buy REALLY nice houses where we're not allowed to decorate, hang pictures, change the layout of the livingroom, or park our cars anywhere near.

Been following these forums since the beginning of this week when I ordered the phone through amazon. Now that it has finally shipped today after being backordered, I'm seeing this
and returning this, which I got for a penny, would mean I would have to pay full price for the phone I exchange for, correct?
I wish the morale in this forum didn't seem like it is dying away, but I understand that many of us are almost at the 30 day limit on exchanges and two years is an awful long time to go without an unlocked bootloader.
My first htc phone, after going through LG and blackberry.... which might be exchanged like all of yours....

I think a lot of you are missing the point. This is not just about the bootloader. everyone's reasons are different so I can only share my own. So if you have been paying attention to this forum at all you might get that. Personally my reasons are in no particular order: Carrier IQ, locked bootloader..not just because of development, but because you can't get rid of Carrier IQ while the bootloader is locked, being throttled by AT&T with normal use only halfway through my Billing cycle at only 3.6gb while I still have to pay full price even though I'm on an unlimited plan, their lack of answers, their silencing of our voices on forums, and those are just a few reasons. This is beyond "you mad about no root". And if you think I won't care about what happens after this, then you really haven't been paying attention. My plan is to import a phone or stick with my streak until I figure out a better option. If I use a phone they don't have on file for me, then I can at least not be throttled or be affected directly by Carrier IQ.
This idea isn't JUST for vivid users, and no one is occupying anything. This is for the returns to occur in one fell swoop so they can feel the hit they have caused themselves. As paying customers, most of us are tired of being treated like this. If you're having trouble understanding why and how this would matter, then you haven't been following this forum.

Returned mine already

rodger-sp said:
Returned mine already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everyone Ganged up on me last time when I politely said 'bye bye vivid' not even a week back. Even my thread got deleted and I can't find it on vivid general section anymore.
I think it's worth sticking to Samsung for a while. Eventhough I love sense interface so much, I enjoy having good debloated ROMs that give me full potential of the phone.
I'm back to galaxy s2 and it's totally worth it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium

ceo.mtcl said:
everyone Ganged up on me last time when I politely said 'bye bye vivid' not even a week back. Even my thread got deleted and I can't find it on vivid general section anymore.
I think it's worth sticking to Samsung for a while. Eventhough I love sense interface so much, I enjoy having good debloated ROMs that give me full potential of the phone.
I'm back to galaxy s2 and it's totally worth it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might have been ahead of the game sir.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19946984&postcount=173

Reclaim said:
I think a lot of you are missing the point. This is not just about the bootloader. everyone's reasons are different so I can only share my own. So if you have been paying attention to this forum at all you might get that. Personally my reasons are in no particular order: Carrier IQ, locked bootloader..not just because of development, but because you can't get rid of Carrier IQ while the bootloader is locked, being throttled by AT&T with normal use only halfway through my Billing cycle at only 3.6gb while I still have to pay full price even though I'm on an unlimited plan, their lack of answers, their silencing of our voices on forums, and those are just a few reasons. This is beyond "you mad about no root". And if you think I won't care about what happens after this, then you really haven't been paying attention. My plan is to import a phone or stick with my streak until I figure out a better option. If I use a phone they don't have on file for me, then I can at least not be throttled or be affected directly by Carrier IQ.
This idea isn't JUST for vivid users, and no one is occupying anything. This is for the returns to occur in one fell swoop so they can feel the hit they have caused themselves. As paying customers, most of us are tired of being treated like this. If you're having trouble understanding why and how this would matter, then you haven't been following this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Carrier IQ situation will allow you to break free of your contract, not happy with AT&T, maybe it wasnt for you, not the first time a subscriber switched carriers. AT&T just got LTE when other carriers had it for longer and unthrottled, what stopped you from leaving then?, I have a bandwidth monitor on my vivid, the HTC IQ AGENT ( Carrier IQ ) doesn't take up gigs of your data plan, matter of fact it takes less than 1/10th of a MB. It is very freaky what this app is capable of and was pretty shocked when I saw the youtube vid. Did you know that uploads are also counted as well!. AT&T will soon realize that 4GB just isnt enough to satisfy customers.
Propose this, you have the ability to break free of your contract pretty soon cause of this whole CIQ debacle, if you want AT&T to keep your business, tell them you want unthrottled unlimited data on your grandfathered plan, they cant do that then just leave without penalty.
Its not HTC's fault AT&T has some weird business practices and contract practices that show up in forums / media from time to time, returning any carriers devices hurts sales and manufacturer reputation. Take the fight where it belongs, tell it to Al Franken..lol

penguinfishies said:
Been following these forums since the beginning of this week when I ordered the phone through amazon. Now that it has finally shipped today after being backordered, I'm seeing this
and returning this, which I got for a penny, would mean I would have to pay full price for the phone I exchange for, correct?
I wish the morale in this forum didn't seem like it is dying away, but I understand that many of us are almost at the 30 day limit on exchanges and two years is an awful long time to go without an unlocked bootloader.
My first htc phone, after going through LG and blackberry.... which might be exchanged like all of yours....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in the same boat as you got mine for .01 and it's a nice phone. The only thing I'd like to do is remove some bloat apps, but honestly who cares. Everything I've thrown at it works way better than it did on my EVO 4g on Sprint.
Its not like I have unlimited data with ATT and I pay for 4gig of data.
I'm keeping mine root or no root.

EDIT: I misread an article that I thought had said that HTC promised it unlocked in a month. Either way, you people are so impatient.
EDIT2: If this is for Carrier IQ then I totally agree, but for a phone that doesn't have an unlocked bootloader That's just stupid.
If you guys are seriously going to "occupy AT&T" then you are idiots. A few hundred people won't make that huge of a difference when they have nearly 100 Million customers.
In the end you're only hurting the development community because when it does get unlocked everyone would have left.
That's my $0.02. Good day.
Sent from my HTC Vivid.

8125Omnimax said:
The Carrier IQ situation will allow you to break free of your contract, not happy with AT&T, maybe it wasnt for you, not the first time a subscriber switched carriers. AT&T just got LTE when other carriers had it for longer and unthrottled, what stopped you from leaving then?, I have a bandwidth monitor on my vivid, the HTC IQ AGENT ( Carrier IQ ) doesn't take up gigs of your data plan, matter of fact it takes less than 1/10th of a MB. It is very freaky what this app is capable of and was pretty shocked when I saw the youtube vid. Did you know that uploads are also counted as well!. AT&T will soon realize that 4GB just isnt enough to satisfy customers.
Propose this, you have the ability to break free of your contract pretty soon cause of this whole CIQ debacle, if you want AT&T to keep your business, tell them you want unthrottled unlimited data on your grandfathered plan, they cant do that then just leave without penalty.
Its not HTC's fault AT&T has some weird business practices and contract practices that show up in forums / media from time to time, returning any carriers devices hurts sales and manufacturer reputation. Take the fight where it belongs, tell it to Al Franken..lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You raise some really good points. Though I do feel HTC does have some degree of responsibility because it's on their branded product with their name attached to the actual app.

Infinimint said:
Wow... HTC already said they were going to unlock the bootloader for this phone. You people are so impatient.
If you guys are seriously going to "occupy AT&T" then you are idiots. I few hundred people won't make that huge of a difference when they have nearly 100 Million customers.
In the end you're only hurting the development community because when it does get unlocked everyone would have left.
That's my $0.02. Good day.
Sent from my HTC Vivid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I get a link to where they said they were going to unlock the bootloader?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium

staring to feel ripped off.

I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.

I'm not sure why they don't update things faster either. I guess it's just that a new version of android would confuse the majority of users. idk

Why would android OEMs want to upgrade their old devices? They get their money from selling more phones, if your g1 was officially kicking ICS, why would you want to upgrade? It's sales strategy. If you want updates, go to pretty much any other OS.

z33dev33l said:
Why would android OEMs want to upgrade their old devices? They get their money from selling more phones, if your g1 was officially kicking ICS, why would you want to upgrade? It's sales strategy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is partly true, this rest is garbage.
Another thing is, people who want upgraded OSs are in the minority. So it just doesn't make since to put resources into stuff people don't care about.
A lot of my friends are still on IOS4.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Are there any programs that will only work on ICS that you absolutely must have?
There's none in my case.
My phone works great, so why do I need the OS updated to the latest?

xaccers said:
Are there any programs that will only work on ICS that you absolutely must have?
There's none in my case.
My phone works great, so why do I need the OS updated to the latest?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
99% of the time I'd agree with that, but I'm fastidious when it comes to having organised bookmarks. I use Chrome at home and at work and have bookmark syncing enabled. I've used ChromeMarks to access my Chrome bookmarks on my phone, but I've always wanted it to be part of the browser.
Enter, Google Chrome for Android. It does the bookmark syncing.
I literally have ICS on my S2 for that 1 reason. Even with a few bugs and lags every now and then (it's still beta, after all).

I find the people not wanting updates comment as b.s. As for them not wanting to update to sell new phones, I agree with that, but as a consumer it gets tiring having every penny milked from you in one way or another. I buy a new phone outright every year, I have an evo3d, so comparing its update to something like a g1 is ridiculous at best.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App

^ as stated you're the minority. The majority don't buy phones for updates. Hell most don't know what OS their phone has.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.

bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correcto, thats why carriers love Android so much.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

sleekgreek said:
I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because the programmers get paid for it so they have no hurry. the dev community wants to use it so they put alot of hours and concentration into and get it out. I feel your pain man

This.
bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the most common candidate for being the main reason. Why make people content with the last Big Thing when you can instead beef up and get them hyped for the next Big Thing?
But then why schedule the Ice Cream upgrade for the SGII just before the SGIII comes out? Beats me. Maybe companies are just schizophrenic. Maybe it's a genius plan to make people fume into wanting the SGIII (people tend not to to change their minds once they've made it up) while ensuring the people who can't afford it still remain happy after six months. Maybe it's just a publicity issue (Samsung needs the positive publicity of coming out with ICS, so they'll eventually need to follow through, but not until the very last moment). Any explanation seems likely to me at this point.
This is why it's generally best to buy a future-proof phone. With the Nexus, for example, you'll be able to get indefinite upgrades from google (even if you have to go through a few hoops). The easier something is to unlock (and I suppose: the more popular it is so that more devs are working on it), the more likely you'll be able to keep your phone upgraded yourself, even if you'll have to go through a few hoops to do so. You can't rely on your manufacturer*, and you definitely can't rely on your carrier to have your best upgrade interests in mind.
Of course, if you get a new phone every year (or even every two years), this isn't so much of an issue for you. Most people probably do this (indeed, the very system encourages them to do this), and so there's little incentive to actually change the system.
*This is supposedly where Apple excels, but at what cost..

I can answer that....
You see, all the armchair programmers have a disclaimer that says "We are not responsible if we break your phone..It may, or may not work as expected and if it blows up your phone it's not our fault"
A huge corporation like Motorola/HTC/Samsung/LG/Nokia/etc have millions of users worldwide with a large set of carriers that all want to tweak the user experience to what that particular carrier wants to standardize on. The phone manufacturer may build what they think is a perfectly reasonable piece of software (ALL software has bugs by the way) only to have it kicked back by the internal quality assurance team because it fails a particular test case. And when you have several dozen/hundred developers working on software it's a coordinated effort to meet internal timelines and goals. And if it passes the internal testing it has to be tested by the carriers who can reject the software build due to bugs/user experience/last minute enhancements which triggers the whole cycle all over again.
Smaller development teams where it's a few people working on code do not have as much overhead and probably don't have as much internal testing processes for all possible corner cases as a huge company does so they can coordinate and release a build much quicker.
sleekgreek said:
I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

As said above, the biggest issues are that Devs here and elsewhere have no responsibilities if the upgrades fail, and secondly, there are a ridiculous number of devices being released. There are about 100 android devices available as current phones, and I don't know how many total. Rather difficult to keep so many up to date. It would be nice if they would scale back how many products are out at once, but manufacturers don't seem to get that yet.

psychephylax said:
I can answer that....
You see, all the armchair programmers have a disclaimer that says "We are not responsible if we break your phone..It may, or may not work as expected and if it blows up your phone it's not our fault"
A huge corporation like Motorola/HTC/Samsung/LG/Nokia/etc have millions of users worldwide with a large set of carriers that all want to tweak the user experience to what that particular carrier wants to standardize on. The phone manufacturer may build what they think is a perfectly reasonable piece of software (ALL software has bugs by the way) only to have it kicked back by the internal quality assurance team because it fails a particular test case. And when you have several dozen/hundred developers working on software it's a coordinated effort to meet internal timelines and goals. And if it passes the internal testing it has to be tested by the carriers who can reject the software build due to bugs/user experience/last minute enhancements which triggers the whole cycle all over again.
Smaller development teams where it's a few people working on code do not have as much overhead and probably don't have as much internal testing processes for all possible corner cases as a huge company does so they can coordinate and release a build much quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just dont agree with that, after being with the palm pre from its launch, through all the manual hacks we had to implement before preware, then finally recieving an update months later that couldn't compete with the unofficial code from the guys over at precentral. There is a problem there. I understand there is alot of red tape involved with official releases, but even given that, the time frames are still ridiculous to the point that there is nothing reasonable about it. As awesome as the pre was it was missing basic functions, functions that were there in the code, perhaps they wanted to follow apples model of screwing the customer into the next model, idk. The fact of the matter is, there is no reason why htc or acer or samsung, despite touchwiz and sense and cant push out a nice update in a timely manner, none.

bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the UK where contracts (compared with what I've seen in other countries) are actually pretty good value, you get a new phone for free or not very much every time you renew your contract.
After even a year, there are much better phones out there, the phone you have may be a bit scuffed around the corners, battery will be down on capacity.
So most people upgrade when they get a new contract anyway.

It kills me when i read about the supposedly new "jelly bean" that's supposed to be coming out within the year. Seriously? get ICS out on more phones before you even THINK about releasing another update. Who knows the actual reason behind the delays for these updates but someone needs to get on it. When some of the newest phones out right now still don't have ICS or won't for awhile, there's something wrong.

The obvious plan is to push people to buy the newer quad core phones, more contracts, more money, not to mention if there's a premium because they're "quad core" just like then 4G first came out.

the majority of people buy what their salesman makes look good. some chick at the t-mobile store i was in bought some old phone cuz it was a few bucks cheaper than a new phone, which is like twice as fast and will have support at least 6 months longer than the other..

Shano56 said:
the majority of people buy what their salesman makes look good. some chick at the t-mobile store i was in bought some old phone cuz it was a few bucks cheaper than a new phone, which is like twice as fast and will have support at least 6 months longer than the other..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true. A while back when I was trying to buy my first smartphone I ended up buying an original Droid just because of the salesman telling me about buy one get one offer, after reading about them, I had found out that this phone was so outdated, luckily I had found out before my 30 days.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium

Root Concerns

I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we NEED the bootloader unlocked in order to achieve root it just makes it a hell of a lot easier. I believe the Note 3 on certain carriers still has the bootloader locked but someone was able to find a vulnerability and used that to get root. But I do share your concern as many carriers are offering upgrades after a year and most developers and obviously users get new devices with their upgrade.

Correct, we don't need an unlock bootloader to have root, but, Kitkat update has patch all the vulnerabilities that were use in previous devices like the S4 and Note 3, currently all Note3 shipped with KitKat are stock with no root because of that. I personally think that root will not be achieved on the S5 (Verizon and AT&T), the Note 3 has been on the market way longer than the S5 and the bootloader still locked and root is thing of the past if the Device was shipped with KK from factory.
Besides most of the Devs are researchers and get better recognition/$$$ by giving the exploits to manufactures instead of making it public. Other Devs just like to make it for Fun, but with the locked bootloader there is not much fun but a lot of work instead, and since no everybody that pledges actually pays is not worth it for them to actually work on getting root for a device you can get unlocked on other networks (ex. T-Mo). If all S5 were to be shipped with a locked bootloader, you would had root by now.

Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.

I'm really regretting my purchase of the S5 without having root, and to hear that it may never come is really concerning.

Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?

The carriers are getting work and ideas from us, then adding those features to the phones. Then locking them up (Bootloaders, No Root) because - Like Kenny says, they want to be more secure for corporations. Some people use root for bad things like (Not paying for apps and Xposed modules blocking ads, and other things that they don't want us doing) I use root for LONG LASTING BATTERY LIFE and getting rid of bloatware apps running in the background I dont even use. Yes, it sucks we can't do the things we use to but, they have made it so we can Turn Off apps, Long Lasting battery with the Ultra Power Save feature, etc......(Things we did with root are now coming on the phone >Stole those ideas from us<
EDIT: LETS GO KINGO, YOU CAN DO IT !!!!!! Maybe soon Kingo can produce a root option. That would be awesome. I'm not leaving At&t, been there for 18 years. Great coverage and customer service has been awesome to me !!!

Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app

LoopingCreeper said:
Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.

LuckyColdJohnson said:
Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what your mean. Freedom can be used to get in app purchaces for free. That is kinda getting apps for free and it requires root.
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app

For me, ans more of a power user, the Root abilities were to get a smooother better battery life custom solution. I used Adaway and some apps for better performance. Other than that, root didnt mean much to me. I do miss the rebel aspect of it and that alone rather makes me wish I had bought the HTC M8 instead of the S5 last week.
Best of luck to the Devs that find us a root or AT&T to provide unlocking.

I'm with you guys. I'm just out to up my battery life, remove ads (admittedly. Can you blame me?), and have a few hardware changes, like reassigning buttons, switching music with my volume keys and such.
Biggest want? Titanium backup. I relied on that app more than I'd like to admit, as well as TWRP or ClockWork (depending on the phone/ROM I was using at the time).
It's just nice to be free with something I bought full price, SO I COULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO WHAT I WANTED WITH IT.
Either way, We'll see what happens. All I want is root permissions.
Here's a curious thought, though. The AT&T S4 isn't rooted, but they have a workaround (loki mod). Anyone know if something like that is in the works for us?

I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.

I'm personally getting ready to purchase another device, I love my GS5 even tho it isn't rooted but I'm just not liking the size of it. I got it for $10 with my team member discount but I think I'm going to either get a T-Mobile one or European S5. Idk I want to stay with Samsung but this whole locked phone thing is discouraging.
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LuckyColdJohnson said:
I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.
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That's the only reason I kept and probably will keep my Nexus 5...

Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
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I've seen maybe one or two times since I've been a member of XDA where a bounty worked achieve root or an unlocked bootloader. Honestly, I doubt many of the devs who work on that type of stuff bought an AT&T S5. If it was me, I would have gone T-Mobile or International, as I'm sure most have.
Also, as someone said above, not everyone pays their pledges. The longer a bounty lasts, the bigger chance people who have pledged early have moved on or are not following anymore. I'm willing to bet that if a bounty was close to 2K, the most a dev could hope for is maybe $500, if their lucky. That's still quite a bit of money, but no where near what was pledged. Past experiences dictate present actions.
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---------- Post added at 04:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------
KennyG123 said:
These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.
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The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
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Skizzy034 said:
The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
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Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.

KennyG123 said:
Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.
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Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks

Colerunn said:
Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?
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MetroPCS S5 for $649+ $30 unlock code from cellunlocker-dot-net and you have a wide open west device ready for custom recovery/roms, the works. Also will be carrier unlocked and completely unbranded. Radio has all the LTE bands for TMO and ATT, LTE works. Was using Alliance Rom at the time.
I did sell mine and picked up an M8. Just prefer the feel in hand, 32GB (what was SEC thinking 16GB on a top tier device!) and of course the IPS LCD just looks better to my old, tired eyes than the SuperAMOLED+. Of course everyone's preferences are different.
If you're a night owl and prefer full darkness viewing the AMOLED displays can't be beat. Using LUX I was able to turn down the brightness to just about nothing and the contrast is still outstanding. LCDs (of course) wash out since they do have finite limits of contrast at low levels...
But in normal environments, wow, the IPS display looks spectacular...
In any case, expecting root on an ATT device these days is probably going to lead to major disappointment. Personally, I'd rather use an iOS device than a locked bootloader device (S4/S5).
When you're used to having the freedom of root and can no longer do the things you get used to it's like a punishment, having virtual shackles around your feet and expected to run a 10K on a day with 80 degree dewpoints. Oh yes and with a family of hungry black bears right behind you...

LuckyColdJohnson said:
Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks
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Not really needed if it is just as locked down and basically same hardware will see how it goes.