Database Develop

[Q] Suggestion Time People lol

Ok, so i've heard alot about the motorola droid x, and am considering switching...anybody switch from the x to a captivate? and if so, do you regret it? Pros? Cons? Would you recommend it? Are there any preformance or graphical differences? If so, how extreme? Any input would be greatly appreciated

what makes you want to change? I how it's not because of that battery life test from laptop mag. That test was very poorly done.

No, its just that att has been screwin me an my family for a good while now...for instance, a few weeks ago i had a problem repeatedly with my 40 day old phone(samsung mythic) and after 4 replacements, i asked for a new phone. After a 4 day long struggle, and me threatening to cancel my contract with att, they agreed to let me get a new phone, as long as i paid the upgrade amount. I said ok, even though i shouldnt have, because that was 250 i paid for the mythic right down the drain. Anyway, after being assured by 3 different people this wouldnt use any of our future upgrades(one of which was to be used for my sisters bday present) i was pretty happy, they even said they credit 75 dollars to our account for all my trouble. So i go away to college, and just yesterday, my mother calls and says my sister will no longer be getting her dream phone for her birthday, because att says me getting my captivate cost us(a family of 4) all of our upgrades for the next two years, and not that this is a problem, they never credited my account. When i called to see what was up, they told me they werent sure who told me it wouldnt cost us an upgrade, but they werent supposed to tell me that, so effectively, were screwed for two years. Sorry about that little rant, but it kinda pissed me off a bit...if ida known itd cost us all upgrades for two years, i wouldnt have done it

I would switch if I were you. I been jealous that the droid z had their uv kernel all along. Granted we have one but its a pain to switch to the gt i9000 roms just to uv this phone...and apply the lag fix.
Sent from my phone so excuse the spelling errors

You might want to check out this thread.

[Q] I need honest answer PLEASE

Is this phone and company worth switching over too ? Do to Sprints changing my plan without my approval,I have the opportunity to switch to another carrier.Out of the other big 3 Verizon,T-mobile & AT&T is the only one that is willing to put their offer in writting to me. The other reason I am even looking at this phone and company is because both of my sons want the IPhone and my wife only wants a phone offered by them as well..
So..please fellow XDA members tell me staright up..should I stay with Sprint and my Hero for 1-1/2 years more..or start fresh with this phone and AT&T..
Mac

50 views and not even 1 response..?
Is there no one on-line that has this phone wanting to step up and answer the question ?
I really would like to know the feelings of the folks here,since those that have this phone also have AT&T's service..
Mac

Not an easy one to answer really. I would say if you are completely turned of by what Sprint did to you then changing wouldn't be a bad thing. Going with AT&T will get you points with your family. And who couldn't use more points with their family, right?
That being said, you have by now undoubtedly heared about the GPS problems facing the Galaxy S phones. Some have found their phone is better with different versions, some claim all the updates and changes have made their GPS unuseable. If you are in need of a phone that has good GPS then I would say you can find better. Personally, the GPS issue isn't a deal breaker for me. I am also one of the lucky ones that find it works fine for how I use it.
The phone itself is amazing. Being on XDA also helps as there are many helpful and informative people. Also, the Captivate has been out long enough that the mods are becomming better and better every day, that is if you are into modding your phone. Heck, stock it still is a good phone.
So it all boils down to what you really want to do. I think that is why you haven't had anyone jump on giving you an answer. Good luck my friend!

There is no "right carrier". The advantage of AT&T (now) is coverage and GSM. AT&T has better coverage then T-Mobile, but about equal to VZW. GSM allows you take your phone to Europe - VZW CDMA does not;
But the future brings change - VZW has a slew of World phones coming out (they have GSM as well as CDMA) - VZW has LTE coming out - which is supposed to be a global standard - so travel issue may be a thing of the past.
AT&T has the iPhone today, but rumor says a CDMA iPhone on VZW for the holidays. But rumors are rumors.
I don't know what you are looking for in writing - all the carriers plans are on their web site. T-Mo does have the best customer service, and VZW has some great android phones. If you don't travel much, and T-Mo has good coverage where you live, they seem to have the best prices and some of the best phones.
AT&T is fine too - not trying to steer you away. I moved to AT&T for an iPhone years ago - and I travel to EU; so VZW wasn't cutting it.
Anyway If the family wants AT&T and the price for phones and service fits, then make the move. But you are stuck for 2 years.

Sounds like it's 3-1 in your house. I'd go ahead and make the switch if thats what your family wants. I don't think you'll be worse off with one carrier over the other, at the end of the day they will all screw you. Captivate is a great phone if you can deal with the sometimes difficult to deal with GPS.

I agree. Go with what makes your family happy overall. The Captivate is a fine device, and I've been much more pleased with it than I was with my iPhone. Talk it over with your family, putting them first won't do you wrong.

My first phone was from Virgin Mobile and was prepaid. I know they leased out network access from Sprint. It was awful. I never had good coverage, and then they started charging more for everything. I left them.
I've been with AT&T now since 6th grade. They've never screwed us over, they've always been helpful, and whenever we've had problems, like my sister signing up for those joke things they advertise on tv putting huge data charges on our bill, they cleared it up right away and even gave us a credit on the account.
Of course you're going to hear horror stories of bad customer service from everyone, but really it's not all that common. I've always thought AT&T had great phones, and they've all last me a long time.
My favorite phones have always been Samsung ones as all but one of my phones has been from them. My first was a Sony Ericsson S710a and it lasted me until one day I was sliding it open, and it slipped out of my hand and into a wall and the LCD shattered. After that I had a Samsung a727, then the SGH-i607 Blackjack, then the SGH-a877 Impression, and now the Captivate.
You will be happier with AT&T then with Sprint. But ultimately, you pay the bill and you decide where your money goes. I'll just add that I don't usually praise any company for no reason.

I love this phone with ji6 gps works completely fine for me it does what its supposed to every time lately gets me there no issues. Im very happy with att besides they make you pay for tethering, but theres ways around that with this phone, hehe ;-)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Thanks Guys..
I hate spending a-lot more money so soon on moving my service (since may 2010)..but I really don't know how I could stay with them.
As to any cell company posting their policy on line..well..that can and does change (with Sprint almost daily)..and actually having a written signed contract is something the other companies won't do,AT&T will.That does a lot for me..and for my wife peace of mind.My boys have wanted the I phones for sometime..I don't want one..which is why I am asking about the Captivate. BTW...Sprint elected to change my verbal contract given to me at the time of signing..and I fought it the best I could without turning my Lawyers loose..and I most likely would have won,but the cost to do so would have been prohibitive without a written contract,or so what they told me when I spoke to them about it..
So..the phone has a GPS problem..and that isn't a deal breaker for me,but I do want to see it fixed and soon.Having a 2.2 rom is what I am running on my hero now along with one of the best looking themes going right now IMHO..http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=797077 and so hopefully we can get this ported over here at some point..even if I have to learn how to do it myself
FWIW..I looked closely at this phone and also the Ios4 and hands down this one blows it out of the water on anything video..I stopped by T-Mobile and watched the HD Avatar movie on their version when I was looking at what they offered...It was just awesome..simply jaw dropping..
I am looking forward to the 2.2 upgrade and what comes after with it..So..I will be on here more and more reading what I can..
Thanks Again
Mac

Mac, just a heads up. The leaked 2.2 rom we have actually fixed the GPS. There's no real problem anymore. Obviously it will become more refined when the final release comes out but it definitely works now.
Sent from my Captivate

stuffy is a difficult company but I can't feral with poor service so I disk with them. get used to advanced features like tethering being blocked and such. but you can fix that by looking in the dev section. att isn't all bad though mostly because they are stupid, I told them verizon had a 15% vetrans discount (they do) and asked att if they had something similar. well they didn't but the customer service rep put me on an active duty discount because she didn't know better. it needs to be approved at a higher level with pics of my id and a valid military email according to there website, well I put the papers in anyway and had 15% off my bill the next month. so they obviously don't look at it.
verizons version of bloatware is full blown add ware. if you plug an incredible into a windows pc it hijacks explorer and goes to a v cast music site. on the fascinate they replaced the google services with microsoft services.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

I think it's refreshing to see all the honest answers, not a ton of chest pounding "our phone is the best" posts. Most people on XDA by nature are into tweaking so the out-of-the-box limitations aren't a showstopper.
For me, I really need a world-capable phone. My family also is on ATT so that helped as well. I think all the carriers are converging on offering similar product. ATT has less HTC stuff but has the IPhone. ATT is currently behind on Android, but the Captivate is certainly helping to address that. I like the phone and have recommended it friends. Go for it.

miztaken1312 said:
Mac, just a heads up. The leaked 2.2 rom we have actually fixed the GPS. There's no real problem anymore. Obviously it will become more refined when the final release comes out but it definitely works now.
Sent from my Captivate
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Cool..that is good news..
Thanks
Mac

I will give my two bits. My experience has been good with att. Cs has never been bad, but at times there were moments that did not go smoothly. Always quick to address concerns of mine and they love giving credits out to keep me happy. I have been one of the lucky that never had major problems out of the box with the captivate. But coming from a storm running on atti think my standard were lower. Gps on froyo still doesn't work perfectly but has had improvement with locking and tracking. Dev support is actually really good so that is a big plus. My wife loves her captivate and she is not a techie at all. Hope my input helps.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

flashman2002 said:
I will give my two bits. My experience has been good with att. Cs has never been bad, but at times there were moments that did not go smoothly. Always quick to address concerns of mine and they love giving credits out to keep me happy. I have been one of the lucky that never had major problems out of the box with the captivate. But coming from a storm running on atti think my standard were lower. Gps on froyo still doesn't work perfectly but has had improvement with locking and tracking. Dev support is actually really good so that is a big plus. My wife loves her captivate and she is not a techie at all. Hope my input helps.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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It does,and greatly appreciated..
I understand the gps issue,and I am wondering if the delayed release of FroYo on this phone is partly because of it. Rooting and adding on customs roms has been working great for me on my Hero..and that phone is finnally acting the way it should have all along. Removing AT&T's bloatware will be my first priority after 2.2 is released..
I am curious about one thing..I know you can't load 3rd party apps unless rooted and a custom rom..but can you direct push them with the sd out of the phone and in a reader from a pc ? If we are working out of windows and a terminal..we should be able to insert any .apk or what we want.. anywhere we want..can't we ?
Thanks Again Guys
Mac

mobius911 said:
I think it's refreshing to see all the honest answers, not a ton of chest pounding "our phone is the best" posts. Most people on XDA by nature are into tweaking so the out-of-the-box limitations aren't a showstopper.
For me, I really need a world-capable phone. My family also is on ATT so that helped as well. I think all the carriers are converging on offering similar product. ATT has less HTC stuff but has the IPhone. ATT is currently behind on Android, but the Captivate is certainly helping to address that. I like the phone and have recommended it friends. Go for it.
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Same here..I know folks have their favorites and also know there will always be folks that have problems..but it is refreshing to see a honest straight forward discussion with out any of the fan fair these types of threads always seem to degenerate into.
Mac

Mac11700 said:
I am curious about one thing..I know you can't load 3rd party apps unless rooted and a custom rom..but can you direct push them with the sd out of the phone and in a reader from a pc ? If we are working out of windows and a terminal..we should be able to insert any .apk or what we want.. anywhere we want..can't we ?
Thanks Again Guys
Mac
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can push them using ADB or even easier, if you google something called the "Android Central Sideload Wonder Machine" or just sideload wonder machine, someone created an app to so that you don't even have to use the command prompt or hack the phone. No need for a custom rom, and I don't believe rooting is needed.
Here, I'll link you to it.
SIDELOAD WONDER MACHINE

I made the switch you are thinking of about 1.5 years ago and I have no regrets. One thing to keep in mind is the data cap ATT now has on their new subscribers. I signed up when unlimited was an offering, and honestly I don't know that I would have been comfortable using 1 smartphone, let alone 3-4 of them with limited data usage. ATT also had better coverage where I lived last year but would say Sprint is on par within the city limits now. The Evo is a really nice phone (Several people I know have them and are pleased) but I won't go back to Sprint after all the horrible customer service I had with them for 8 years. My local ATT business rep does an incredible job and is a big reason that I just renewed with them(they let me keep unlimited data). Ultimately, if I was in your shoes, I would probably do what made my family/wife happy as long as it isn't going to cause financial heartache when you exceed the data limit. I think they charge in blocks of 200mb for overage but you should definitely look into how much data your family has/will be using. My .02
Edited to add: Depending on what kind of user you are (business/personal) you might want to leave that cog. 2.2 alone until it works. I loaded it last weekend, went out to a job, and was unable to d-load an important pdf that was in my e-mail. Fortunately I had a laptop but in the past I would have been able to count on my phone for a quick blueprint reference. Sounds like it may be a fun thing to play with as long as you don't REALLY need everything on your phone to work. Also, the GPS was horrid on cog. 2.2. Needless to say I flashed it back to the original software when I got home. My GPS works just fine after the JH7 OTA update was installed. Worked yesterday on a 2 hour drive where I only had phone coverage for 20-30 miles. I haven't "tweaked" the GPS settings, just whatever they changed with JH7 is working.

itsjustaphone said:
I made the switch you are thinking of about 1.5 years ago and I have no regrets. One thing to keep in mind is the data cap ATT now has on their new subscribers. I signed up when unlimited was an offering, and honestly I don't know that I would have been comfortable using 1 smartphone, let alone 3-4 of them with limited data usage. ATT also had better coverage where I lived last year but would say Sprint is on par within the city limits now. The Evo is a really nice phone (Several people I know have them and are pleased) but I won't go back to Sprint after all the horrible customer service I had with them for 8 years. My local ATT business rep does an incredible job and is a big reason that I just renewed with them(they let me keep unlimited data). Ultimately, if I was in your shoes, I would probably do what made my family/wife happy as long as it isn't going to cause financial heartache when you exceed the data limit. I think they charge in blocks of 200mb for overage but you should definitely look into how much data your family has/will be using. My .02
Edited to add: Depending on what kind of user you are (business/personal) you might want to leave that cog. 2.2 alone until it works. I loaded it last weekend, went out to a job, and was unable to d-load an important pdf that was in my e-mail. Fortunately I had a laptop but in the past I would have been able to count on my phone for a quick blueprint reference. Sounds like it may be a fun thing to play with as long as you don't REALLY need everything on your phone to work. Also, the GPS was horrid on cog. 2.2. Needless to say I flashed it back to the original software when I got home. My GPS works just fine after the JH7 OTA update was installed. Worked yesterday on a 2 hour drive where I only had phone coverage for 20-30 miles. I haven't "tweaked" the GPS settings, just whatever they changed with JH7 is working.
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Dam good advise..Thanks
They charge in 1 gig allotments for overages now..not 200 mb. I too was worried about doing just this..and this is per line..not per plan. I went back through all of my bills and no-one has even come close to 1gig..let alone 2 gigs..but I understand that can change too.
The main thing for me and my family is getting a phone that is going to work..every time. I've run into some issues with mine on my job where I needed it and something crashed it. Also it's so tiresome for me to hear all the complaints and moaning when something crashes or FC's on their phones..I can deal with it happening on mine cause I am used to tinkering with it..but I have to say I am very tempted some by the I 4's simplicity...it would be nice just to not have to worry about updating mine almost daily,and just use the durn thing. I just don't know if I could deal with it or not as a day to day phone. I am at a loss in that regards..I know you can jailbreak them and do similar things we do with our Androids..but..I don't know enough about that to even consider doing it right now. I most likely would just so I could download apps and movies on it to watch from my pc..I got a week to figure this all out..and you all here are helping a-lot..
Thanks
Mac

I honestly liked the iphone4, and had one for a week. It was fun and all, but it had the same problem as my 3G, the ability to make and MAINTAIN a phone call. Obviously that isn't much of an issue for younger kids since you can still text with spotty coverage(my 13 yo uses about 60 min. a month and 1,000,000,000,000 text messages) I don't know if the iphone is somehow on a different signal than the other phones, but I have been very pleased with the PHONE CALL ability of the captivate. My wife loves the iphone (though she keeps eyeballing the captivate now) and like you, I do not enjoy fixing problems, so I have tried my best to keep her interest in my phone at a minimum. I can honestly say I do not miss the iphone for anything. I also enjoy the *cough cough* wireless tethering of my captivate(free app) that iphone never did get right(and when it did work, there was the whole loss of signal issue). The iphone is good at running apps and texting, outstanding even. I just really need to make phone calls and MAINTAIN a call when I make it. But like I said in my previous post, if your use is personal, iphone might work. If you make important calls, it fails.

Our fight against Motorola & Verizon

If you haven't heard all ready Verizon is tracking down root users and limiting there data or fully suspending it so watch out. But we have to fight back against them by hiding Verizon from seeing that we are proudly rooted and some people have said the would sue Verizon. Please do whatever you can to fight against this.
Also motorola and htc are going to start doing the same.

This......can't be true........where did you learn of this?

Not surprising
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Could you please link a source for this information? Thanks!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App

apDroid said:
Could you please link a source for this information? Thanks!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
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+1: source please

P3droid announced it. When i get time ill link
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Here is the link from MyDroidWorld: http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Here is the entire post:
Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about Motorola working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via Google through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?
1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new HTC devices)
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.
I think I posted my first angry message and tweet about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?
1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.
The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers.
Last edited by p3droid; 04-03-2011 at 09:44 AM.

I saw that on Droid Life yesterday and got sad. I am in between contracts now and am debating on getting the Thunderbolt which is wide open for root or waiting for the Bionic, which if it is like the Atrix, might not be rootable at all. Now with this info i am even more lost on which one to get

necroscopev said:
I saw that on Droid Life yesterday and got sad. I am in between contracts now and am debating on getting the Thunderbolt which is wide open for root or waiting for the Bionic, which if it is like the Atrix, might not be rootable at all. Now with this info i am even more lost on which one to get
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Dont get discouraged. Ive been on android since the og droid. These posts come out all the time. The thing they will attack is tethers. Which is understandable being that they are stealing.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

What concerns me more is that can they or will they differentiate between a rooted phone custom ROM and rooted phone with the person tethering.
I am provided with a paid tethered phone from work with unlimited data plan. I do not use my personal phone to tether. I like the option of having custom ROMs so that I can have the most optimized phone available and not one slowed or battery life lost to bloatware or bugs in the kernal/radio.

Looks like it'll be the lg g2x for me. Or the Xperia arc if it's released in the U.S. with t-mobile's bands. After the merger, who knows

+1 same here man.
CaliTilt said:
What concerns me more is that can they or will they differentiate between a rooted phone custom ROM and rooted phone with the person tethering.
I am provided with a paid tethered phone from work with unlimited data plan. I do not use my personal phone to tether. I like the option of having custom ROMs so that I can have the most optimized phone available and not one slowed or battery life lost to bloatware or bugs in the kernal/radio.
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Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt

This is horrible.

I find it hard to believe that the industry is spending all this time and money on something that is much easier to control from functionality that already exists. Take AT&T for example. They have tiered data plans. Really it doesn't matter if you tether because the more data you use, the more they charge. And that is what this is ultimately about. Money. If a phone company wants me to stop using tether, rather than putting time and effort into the phone, just limit the data. If I owned Verizon, this would totally be the route I would take my business. Forget spending money on locking down the customer. Offer a superior network at a premium price and let the customer go wild. You want to tether 15 devices? Go right ahead, I don't care how many devices you use, but you are limited to 3GB of data for a month and you will be charged exponentially more for each GB over that allotment. Is it really that hard to figure out?

piperat said:
Dont get discouraged. Ive been on android since the og droid. These posts come out all the time. The thing they will attack is tethers. Which is understandable being that they are stealing.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No its not stealing im paying,for unlimited data which I should be able to use how I want. Tethering or not. I dont download torrents and **** over cell data or anything just use it for gendral browsing and email same stuff I would do on the phone just on a larger screen.
U know how much a txt message costs to send but its 20 bucks a month for unlimited txting....its a ripoff look it up.
Just my 2cents
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
thorpe24 said:
No its not stealing im paying,for unlimited data which I should be able to use how I want. Tethering or not. I dont download torrents and **** over cell data or anything just use it for gendral browsing and email same stuff I would do on the phone just on a larger screen.
U know how much a txt message costs to send but its 20 bucks a month for unlimited txting....its a ripoff look it up.
Just my 2cents
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Is this limited to Motorola and Verizon only or all Verizon phones and devices?

nubsors said:
I find it hard to believe that the industry is spending all this time and money on something that is much easier to control from functionality that already exists. Take AT&T for example. They have tiered data plans. Really it doesn't matter if you tether because the more data you use, the more they charge. And that is what this is ultimately about. Money. If a phone company wants me to stop using tether, rather than putting time and effort into the phone, just limit the data. If I owned Verizon, this would totally be the route I would take my business. Forget spending money on locking down the customer. Offer a superior network at a premium price and let the customer go wild. You want to tether 15 devices? Go right ahead, I don't care how many devices you use, but you are limited to 3GB of data for a month and you will be charged exponentially more for each GB over that allotment. Is it really that hard to figure out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I read a while back, Verizon is going to tiered data plans, along with a handful of other carriers... I believe it was on xda, phandroid or android central that I had read multiple news articles about this...
piperat said:
You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically the data is still running to your phone, so it shouldn't matter. Plus I remember with 2.1 or something like that tethering was "suppose" to be free...
But this argument could go either way really... I see the view point from both sides and I think with a tiered data plan (over XX amount of gb of usage) should be enacted. Also maybe throttle the people downloading torrents or large amounts of data, and offer the tethering fee to unlock the full network speed to those people that download mass amounts of data and use tethering as their only or main source of internet (basically just a little rework of the system they have in place now). I mean I like to be able to tether when I'm on a roadtrip or don't have access to internet (mainly at work there is a dead spot for the wifi due to the radiology classes being inbetween our wifi antenna and the break room. This is caused by the lead lining in their walls). I don't download anything other than what little data I would be using on my phone normally to check some forums, facebook and the occasional email when I want to view those on a bigger screen due to eye and neck strain while eating my lunch. In all honesty, when you break it down, I use A TON less of data while I'm tethering than when I would use my phone as intended due to the tons of apps I run constantly with the constant updates. Now I know that is not the case for the majority of the people that use free tethering, but like the saying goes, why let a few bad apples ruin in for the rest (which is why I stated the throttling of large amounts of data being downloaded such as torrents...my cable internet provider already does this, so it can't be hard for them to implement).
This is not an attack on you personally if it came out that way, jsut a bunch of my scattered thoughts as I've running off of an average 1-2 hours of sleep per night for the past week and I have to be up for work in about 4 hours. And that's also my excuse if this sounds like complete gibberish. lol
racereddy20 said:
Is this limited to Motorola and Verizon only or all Verizon phones and devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It says in the article...

piperat said:
You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, it's their company and, therefore, their say, but the problem is that there are only 4 big telcos, soon to be 3 (AT&T-Mo, Verizon, and Sprint), and they're all in on it together. They all know that they can screw the consumer by charging extra for everything. Sprint's not as bad as the other 3, but they're not innocent either.
This is the same as how ISPs can theoretically do whatever they want as long as they tell us, but in practice it works out quite badly for the end user because you have about one or two choices of ISP where you live.
I'm not necessarily saying tethering should be free. But I'm DEFINITELY saying it's not worth $30 extra. A $5-10 add-on is all I see it worth being.

I think this will end up like the Iphone jailbreak.
Supreme Court said that the Purchaser OWNS the hardware and can do whatever the hell they want to it...F-Off Apple!
I think the same would happen...

staring to feel ripped off.

I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.

I'm not sure why they don't update things faster either. I guess it's just that a new version of android would confuse the majority of users. idk

Why would android OEMs want to upgrade their old devices? They get their money from selling more phones, if your g1 was officially kicking ICS, why would you want to upgrade? It's sales strategy. If you want updates, go to pretty much any other OS.

z33dev33l said:
Why would android OEMs want to upgrade their old devices? They get their money from selling more phones, if your g1 was officially kicking ICS, why would you want to upgrade? It's sales strategy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is partly true, this rest is garbage.
Another thing is, people who want upgraded OSs are in the minority. So it just doesn't make since to put resources into stuff people don't care about.
A lot of my friends are still on IOS4.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Are there any programs that will only work on ICS that you absolutely must have?
There's none in my case.
My phone works great, so why do I need the OS updated to the latest?

xaccers said:
Are there any programs that will only work on ICS that you absolutely must have?
There's none in my case.
My phone works great, so why do I need the OS updated to the latest?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
99% of the time I'd agree with that, but I'm fastidious when it comes to having organised bookmarks. I use Chrome at home and at work and have bookmark syncing enabled. I've used ChromeMarks to access my Chrome bookmarks on my phone, but I've always wanted it to be part of the browser.
Enter, Google Chrome for Android. It does the bookmark syncing.
I literally have ICS on my S2 for that 1 reason. Even with a few bugs and lags every now and then (it's still beta, after all).

I find the people not wanting updates comment as b.s. As for them not wanting to update to sell new phones, I agree with that, but as a consumer it gets tiring having every penny milked from you in one way or another. I buy a new phone outright every year, I have an evo3d, so comparing its update to something like a g1 is ridiculous at best.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App

^ as stated you're the minority. The majority don't buy phones for updates. Hell most don't know what OS their phone has.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.

bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correcto, thats why carriers love Android so much.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

sleekgreek said:
I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because the programmers get paid for it so they have no hurry. the dev community wants to use it so they put alot of hours and concentration into and get it out. I feel your pain man

This.
bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the most common candidate for being the main reason. Why make people content with the last Big Thing when you can instead beef up and get them hyped for the next Big Thing?
But then why schedule the Ice Cream upgrade for the SGII just before the SGIII comes out? Beats me. Maybe companies are just schizophrenic. Maybe it's a genius plan to make people fume into wanting the SGIII (people tend not to to change their minds once they've made it up) while ensuring the people who can't afford it still remain happy after six months. Maybe it's just a publicity issue (Samsung needs the positive publicity of coming out with ICS, so they'll eventually need to follow through, but not until the very last moment). Any explanation seems likely to me at this point.
This is why it's generally best to buy a future-proof phone. With the Nexus, for example, you'll be able to get indefinite upgrades from google (even if you have to go through a few hoops). The easier something is to unlock (and I suppose: the more popular it is so that more devs are working on it), the more likely you'll be able to keep your phone upgraded yourself, even if you'll have to go through a few hoops to do so. You can't rely on your manufacturer*, and you definitely can't rely on your carrier to have your best upgrade interests in mind.
Of course, if you get a new phone every year (or even every two years), this isn't so much of an issue for you. Most people probably do this (indeed, the very system encourages them to do this), and so there's little incentive to actually change the system.
*This is supposedly where Apple excels, but at what cost..

I can answer that....
You see, all the armchair programmers have a disclaimer that says "We are not responsible if we break your phone..It may, or may not work as expected and if it blows up your phone it's not our fault"
A huge corporation like Motorola/HTC/Samsung/LG/Nokia/etc have millions of users worldwide with a large set of carriers that all want to tweak the user experience to what that particular carrier wants to standardize on. The phone manufacturer may build what they think is a perfectly reasonable piece of software (ALL software has bugs by the way) only to have it kicked back by the internal quality assurance team because it fails a particular test case. And when you have several dozen/hundred developers working on software it's a coordinated effort to meet internal timelines and goals. And if it passes the internal testing it has to be tested by the carriers who can reject the software build due to bugs/user experience/last minute enhancements which triggers the whole cycle all over again.
Smaller development teams where it's a few people working on code do not have as much overhead and probably don't have as much internal testing processes for all possible corner cases as a huge company does so they can coordinate and release a build much quicker.
sleekgreek said:
I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

As said above, the biggest issues are that Devs here and elsewhere have no responsibilities if the upgrades fail, and secondly, there are a ridiculous number of devices being released. There are about 100 android devices available as current phones, and I don't know how many total. Rather difficult to keep so many up to date. It would be nice if they would scale back how many products are out at once, but manufacturers don't seem to get that yet.

psychephylax said:
I can answer that....
You see, all the armchair programmers have a disclaimer that says "We are not responsible if we break your phone..It may, or may not work as expected and if it blows up your phone it's not our fault"
A huge corporation like Motorola/HTC/Samsung/LG/Nokia/etc have millions of users worldwide with a large set of carriers that all want to tweak the user experience to what that particular carrier wants to standardize on. The phone manufacturer may build what they think is a perfectly reasonable piece of software (ALL software has bugs by the way) only to have it kicked back by the internal quality assurance team because it fails a particular test case. And when you have several dozen/hundred developers working on software it's a coordinated effort to meet internal timelines and goals. And if it passes the internal testing it has to be tested by the carriers who can reject the software build due to bugs/user experience/last minute enhancements which triggers the whole cycle all over again.
Smaller development teams where it's a few people working on code do not have as much overhead and probably don't have as much internal testing processes for all possible corner cases as a huge company does so they can coordinate and release a build much quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just dont agree with that, after being with the palm pre from its launch, through all the manual hacks we had to implement before preware, then finally recieving an update months later that couldn't compete with the unofficial code from the guys over at precentral. There is a problem there. I understand there is alot of red tape involved with official releases, but even given that, the time frames are still ridiculous to the point that there is nothing reasonable about it. As awesome as the pre was it was missing basic functions, functions that were there in the code, perhaps they wanted to follow apples model of screwing the customer into the next model, idk. The fact of the matter is, there is no reason why htc or acer or samsung, despite touchwiz and sense and cant push out a nice update in a timely manner, none.

bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the UK where contracts (compared with what I've seen in other countries) are actually pretty good value, you get a new phone for free or not very much every time you renew your contract.
After even a year, there are much better phones out there, the phone you have may be a bit scuffed around the corners, battery will be down on capacity.
So most people upgrade when they get a new contract anyway.

It kills me when i read about the supposedly new "jelly bean" that's supposed to be coming out within the year. Seriously? get ICS out on more phones before you even THINK about releasing another update. Who knows the actual reason behind the delays for these updates but someone needs to get on it. When some of the newest phones out right now still don't have ICS or won't for awhile, there's something wrong.

The obvious plan is to push people to buy the newer quad core phones, more contracts, more money, not to mention if there's a premium because they're "quad core" just like then 4G first came out.

the majority of people buy what their salesman makes look good. some chick at the t-mobile store i was in bought some old phone cuz it was a few bucks cheaper than a new phone, which is like twice as fast and will have support at least 6 months longer than the other..

Shano56 said:
the majority of people buy what their salesman makes look good. some chick at the t-mobile store i was in bought some old phone cuz it was a few bucks cheaper than a new phone, which is like twice as fast and will have support at least 6 months longer than the other..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true. A while back when I was trying to buy my first smartphone I ended up buying an original Droid just because of the salesman telling me about buy one get one offer, after reading about them, I had found out that this phone was so outdated, luckily I had found out before my 30 days.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium

Oh Dear, HTC is hurting

An article on my phone popped up (sorry forgot source) but it really looked bad.
Top Execs leaving.
Their Market share has dropped so low (under 4%) that some sites put them now in the "Other" Category (along with RIM etc.).
The HTC One is hoped to save them and most agree it's a fantastic phone, but now there are parts shortages and if you don't get that first wave you won't have a winner despite being better hardware.
Profits are down 98% from last year.
Profits are like in the Millions for HTC and Billions for Samsung (not sure if that is just for phones though).
Google HTC it's is all over the place.
I sure hope they can turn things around but now they are losing key people. I've had a new HTC phone every year since the Mogul (maybe earlier, been too long).
I don't think I've ever had to replace one (except one I bricked). Sold every one as working.
By the way I think this thread does belong here because the HTC One is Key and Folks Considering Buying one should know what's going on. I had no idea.
Sad that it popped up on my HTC Phone.

I too have a HTCONE and love the quality of HTC phones. But I also have a Samsung Note II. As for HTC going down hill, it serves them right for them locking down their bootloaders. First with the Evo 3D, and now the HTCONE. Yeah, I know they gave us htcdev.com but like with samsung devices, its so easy unlocking the bootloaders because Samsung supports our beloved developers. HTC just wants control, or some control, like our parents. Htc wants to say, "no no, you cant do that with your phone, it might hurt it". Htc doesn't want to give us "users" the choice to break our phones if we want, which is why they lock the bootloaders.
Htc thinks their slick too. With the evo 3d they allowed us to unlock our bootloaders but they wouldn't allow us to flash kernels, or downgrade our bootloaders. Which is why our developers found a way to hack into our bootloaders with the evo 3d to gain s-off. But with the HTCONE they also allowed us to unlock our bootloaders, only now they made it possible to flash kernels, their thinking if they gave us access to flash kernels, maybe our developers wouldn't worry about hacking the htcone's bootloader to gain s-off. But little do they know that where ever there's a rule, there's always someone who will find a way to break that rule.
As far as im concerned, htc is getting what they deserve. Htc had some serious followers until they released the evo 3d with a locked bootloader. I alone know of a couple dozen htc fans who stopped buying htc phones just because of that actoin of theirs. So I still bought the htcone thinking they might have learned their lesson, but NOPE, instead they release a dev addition, asking for more money for it. Htc is starting to remind me of Apple, lmao...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

mswlogo said:
An article on my phone popped up (sorry forgot source) but it really looked bad.
Top Execs leaving.
Their Market share has dropped so low (under 4%) that some sites put them now in the "Other" Category (along with RIM etc.).
The HTC One is hoped to save them and most agree it's a fantastic phone, but now there are parts shortages and if you don't get that first wave you won't have a winner despite being better hardware.
Profits are down 98% from last year.
Profits are like in the Millions for HTC and Billions for Samsung (not sure if that is just for phones though).
Google HTC it's is all over the place.
I sure hope they can turn things around but now they are losing key people. I've had a new HTC phone every year since the Mogul (maybe earlier, been too long).
I don't think I've ever had to replace one (except one I bricked). Sold every one as working.
By the way I think this thread does belong here because the HTC One is Key and Folks Considering Buying one should know what's going on. I had no idea.
Sad that it popped up on my HTC Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, looking at it all wrong.
For the past few years people were complaining about HTC's marketing strategies, design, and other things. HTC is taking the power from those people who were directly responsible for those things people were complaining about, and giving it to new people with fresh ideas, new strategies and new direction. Its call change, and to me its a change for the better. You can already see the difference in strategy and its working. Those guys seem bitter that they are getting phased out. HTC is evolving and I give them kudos rather than keep the same people and be status quo.

I read that story too. While I agree that HTC has suffered I believe that story is hyperbolic. Some execs left, they all seemed to have other jobs lined up pretty quickly. The fact is things weren't going great. The fact that they left might be a good thing as they might be part of the problem.
Another fact is the HTC One has been and will continue to be a success at least through the summer. It needs the 4.2 update to compete. If it launched with 4.2 there really would be no place to complain.
I don't know what the future has for HTC but they are doing better than BlackBerry and Nokia if that means anything. As for the bootloader, you heard of Motorola?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda premium

I agree with the better off comments. The guy who is telling his friends to leave we have no idea if he is a disgruntled employee trying to blow the low numbers into a sensationalized story, or if he was legit employee that was valued at the company.
One truth we know, these guys that are leaving are the ones who drove the company downward, so yeah better off without them
Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2

well I figure no matter what the devs we have here will still keep the one updated even if htc goes under.

sniperkill said:
I too have a HTCONE and love the quality of HTC phones. But I also have a Samsung Note II. As for HTC going down hill, it serves them right for them locking down their bootloaders. First with the Evo 3D, and now the HTCONE. Yeah, I know they gave us htcdev.com but like with samsung devices, its so easy unlocking the bootloaders because Samsung supports our beloved developers. HTC just wants control, or some control, like our parents. Htc wants to say, "no no, you cant do that with your phone, it might hurt it". Htc doesn't want to give us "users" the choice to break our phones if we want, which is why they lock the bootloaders.
Htc thinks their slick too. With the evo 3d they allowed us to unlock our bootloaders but they wouldn't allow us to flash kernels, or downgrade our bootloaders. Which is why our developers found a way to hack into our bootloaders with the evo 3d to gain s-off. But with the HTCONE they also allowed us to unlock our bootloaders, only now they made it possible to flash kernels, their thinking if they gave us access to flash kernels, maybe our developers wouldn't worry about hacking the htcone's bootloader to gain s-off. But little do they know that where ever there's a rule, there's always someone who will find a way to break that rule.
As far as im concerned, htc is getting what they deserve. Htc had some serious followers until they released the evo 3d with a locked bootloader. I alone know of a couple dozen htc fans who stopped buying htc phones just because of that actoin of theirs. So I still bought the htcone thinking they might have learned their lesson, but NOPE, instead they release a dev addition, asking for more money for it. Htc is starting to remind me of Apple, lmao...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm I'm not calling you a liar, but I am skeptical of your "couple dozen fans" story. Even if it was true, it's only a minor amount.
Facts are facts and one fact is the android community that actually hacks, roots, installs custom software or even knows those options are available, is very small. The majority of android users have no idea or care less and it's not even close. Even smaller is the part of the android community that hacks and needs s-off on a phone like the One. I flash custom roms/kernels. S-off would be pretty cool, but it isn't really gonna offer me anything more than I already have. While it's a *bleep* move for HTC to do that, it is hardly the reason they are losing money.
HTC is simply falling off because they don't know how to market. They are doing a better job with the One, but it's almost too little too late. Samsung is the new Apple and the war between Android and Apple consists of Samsung and Iphone/Ipad products thanks to huge, clever marketing. That's pretty much what it boils down to. There is a reason why advertising is so expensive.
---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------
kc_exactly said:
I read that story too. While I agree that HTC has suffered I believe that story is hyperbolic. Some execs left, they all seemed to have other jobs lined up pretty quickly. The fact is things weren't going great. The fact that they left might be a good thing as they might be part of the problem.
Another fact is the HTC One has been and will continue to be a success at least through the summer. It needs the 4.2 update to compete. If it launched with 4.2 there really would be no place to complain.
I don't know what the future has for HTC but they are doing better than BlackBerry and Nokia if that means anything. As for the bootloader, you heard of Motorola?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, the 4.2 update will be nice, but nobody pays attention to that outside of the hacking community.
Samsung s4= Android Jelly Bean
Htc One= Android Jelly Bean.
What's the real difference, the real selling point to an average android user of 4.2 over 4.1 ? They aren't going to care.
You know what they see? They see Samsung commercials banging on Apple, they see software gimmicks like "smart scroll' and other "shinys"
Cool camera features, IR blasters and other goodies to show their friends. They aren't looking for better bluetooth stacks and the like. Heck even windows is getting in on the marketing ploy, showing commercials of android and phone users fighting each other, it's all marketing.

Rippley05 said:
Hmm I'm not calling you a liar, but I am skeptical of your "couple dozen fans" story. Even if it was true, it's only a minor amount.
Facts are facts and one fact is the android community that actually hacks, roots, installs custom software or even knows those options are available, is very small. The majority of android users have no idea or care less and it's not even close. Even smaller is the part of the android community that hacks and needs s-off on a phone like the One. I flash custom roms/kernels. S-off would be pretty cool, but it isn't really gonna offer me anything more than I already have. While it's a *bleep* move for HTC to do that, it is hardly the reason they are losing money.
HTC is simply falling off because they don't know how to market. They are doing a better job with the One, but it's almost too little too late. Samsung is the new Apple and the war between Android and Apple consists of Samsung and Iphone/Ipad products thanks to huge, clever marketing. That's pretty much what it boils down to. There is a reason why advertising is so expensive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't have said it better myself. XDA has what... 5 million members world wide... World population is estimated at 7 billions (in 2012)... assume only 1/4 of those own cell phones and lets double the 5 million number... so 1.75 billion potential cellphone users... lets just use the 50% marketshare for android... so 875 million android handsets out there...
10 million / 875 million = 1.1% ... Yes these numbes are 100% pulled out of my behind but we can get even more liberal and says 1/32nd of the total population own cell phones... that would equal roughly 9% of the cellphone population would care about unlocked bootloaders...

Well I don't know the story about unlocked Bootloaders w.r.t. other brands, except I do know it's extremely difficult on iPhones to Jailbreak (if not impossible on iPhone5). But I don't blame HTC at all. I'm sure a lot comes from carriers. They don't want unlocked devices on their network. Sprint/AT&T/T-Mobile etc. is their customer.
I also agree many don't know what a bootloader is, but it's really surprising to see things like RootExplorer, Titanium Backup, ROM Manager etc. as top downloads on Google Play. Although the stats might be skewed with all the "Wiping" and Reflashing
Interesting some see it as a positive move. Well one of the lead technical guys responsible for the HTC One just left. And the CEO said he'll step down if HTC One fails.
Yeah the new direction might be more plastic to compete with Samsung.

sniperkill said:
I too have a HTCONE and love the quality of HTC phones. But I also have a Samsung Note II. As for HTC going down hill, it serves them right for them locking down their bootloaders. First with the Evo 3D, and now the HTCONE. Yeah, I know they gave us htcdev.com but like with samsung devices, its so easy unlocking the bootloaders because Samsung supports our beloved developers. HTC just wants control, or some control, like our parents. Htc wants to say, "no no, you cant do that with your phone, it might hurt it". Htc doesn't want to give us "users" the choice to break our phones if we want, which is why they lock the bootloaders.
Htc thinks their slick too. With the evo 3d they allowed us to unlock our bootloaders but they wouldn't allow us to flash kernels, or downgrade our bootloaders. Which is why our developers found a way to hack into our bootloaders with the evo 3d to gain s-off. But with the HTCONE they also allowed us to unlock our bootloaders, only now they made it possible to flash kernels, their thinking if they gave us access to flash kernels, maybe our developers wouldn't worry about hacking the htcone's bootloader to gain s-off. But little do they know that where ever there's a rule, there's always someone who will find a way to break that rule.
As far as im concerned, htc is getting what they deserve. Htc had some serious followers until they released the evo 3d with a locked bootloader. I alone know of a couple dozen htc fans who stopped buying htc phones just because of that actoin of theirs. So I still bought the htcone thinking they might have learned their lesson, but NOPE, instead they release a dev addition, asking for more money for it. Htc is starting to remind me of Apple, lmao...
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Just so everyone's clear, this is not as big of a reason as this person has made it out to be. The amount of people who care about the bootloader or rooting the phone when buying an HTC phone is probably less than 2%. The problem is they were crushed with Samsung's huge spending on advertising. They even got a little bit of free advertisement for those who just pay attention because of their problems with Apple. That being said, HTC is putting more into advertisement, but they are having a hard time delivering their products. With them now being a B-List consumer for parts, it's hard to deliver the products to the demand. People now have to say "Well, I either settle with a Samsung phone, or wait for an HTC One to become available." I believe they'll bounce back, but it's going to be a tough year if they can't produce more of these phones and get them into the hands of the customers that want them.

sniperkill said:
I too have a HTCONE and love the quality of HTC phones. But I also have a Samsung Note II. As for HTC going down hill, it serves them right for them locking down their bootloaders. First with the Evo 3D, and now the HTCONE. Yeah, I know they gave us htcdev.com but like with samsung devices, its so easy unlocking the bootloaders because Samsung supports our beloved developers. HTC just wants control, or some control, like our parents. Htc wants to say, "no no, you cant do that with your phone, it might hurt it". Htc doesn't want to give us "users" the choice to break our phones if we want, which is why they lock the bootloaders.
Htc thinks their slick too. With the evo 3d they allowed us to unlock our bootloaders but they wouldn't allow us to flash kernels, or downgrade our bootloaders. Which is why our developers found a way to hack into our bootloaders with the evo 3d to gain s-off. But with the HTCONE they also allowed us to unlock our bootloaders, only now they made it possible to flash kernels, their thinking if they gave us access to flash kernels, maybe our developers wouldn't worry about hacking the htcone's bootloader to gain s-off. But little do they know that where ever there's a rule, there's always someone who will find a way to break that rule.
As far as im concerned, htc is getting what they deserve. Htc had some serious followers until they released the evo 3d with a locked bootloader. I alone know of a couple dozen htc fans who stopped buying htc phones just because of that actoin of theirs. So I still bought the htcone thinking they might have learned their lesson, but NOPE, instead they release a dev addition, asking for more money for it. Htc is starting to remind me of Apple, lmao...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
As others have said, it's a very small minority that care about unlocked bootloaders, etc. Companies aren't making huge profits because of the number of people buying the phone for root, S-OFF, etc. Profit margins are based on the masses.
The real problem is the G3 was a helluva phone that was the best android phone at the time, far beating out the Evo3d, which was a crap "upgrade" to the badass Evo. And Samsuck had a helluva marketing scheme. It appears Samsung is now following Apple's lead in putting out new phones without much substance, but people "have to have them" just like iPhone users have to have the latest inconsequential update. The One is a great phone, but there's a reason I didn't renew my contract when I bought the phone. Hopefully HTC can right the ship, cause I love this phone and HTC, but you have to keep up in technology (especially wireless) not just in hardware but also in customers' perception of your products. (marketing)
I will say, I was putzing with my phone this weekend and a friend asked if it was The One, saying he was jealous after I said yep.

eXplicit815 said:
Just so everyone's clear, this is not as big of a reason as this person has made it out to be. The amount of people who care about the bootloader or rooting the phone when buying an HTC phone is probably less than 2%. The problem is they were crushed with Samsung's huge spending on advertising. They even got a little bit of free advertisement for those who just pay attention because of their problems with Apple. That being said, HTC is putting more into advertisement, but they are having a hard time delivering their products. With them now being a B-List consumer for parts, it's hard to deliver the products to the demand. People now have to say "Well, I either settle with a Samsung phone, or wait for an HTC One to become available." I believe they'll bounce back, but it's going to be a tough year if they can't produce more of these phones and get them into the hands of the customers that want them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=41720350&postcount=8 Did some basic assumptions on that percent.
terrel_b said:
As others have said, it's a very small minority that care about unlocked bootloaders, etc. Companies aren't making huge profits because of the number of people buying the phone for root, S-OFF, etc. Profit margins are based on the masses.
The real problem is the G3 was a helluva phone that was the best android phone at the time, far beating out the Evo3d, which was a crap "upgrade" to the badass Evo. And Samsuck had a helluva marketing scheme. It appears Samsung is now following Apple's lead in putting out new phones without much substance, but people "have to have them" just like iPhone users have to have the latest inconsequential update. The One is a great phone, but there's a reason I didn't renew my contract when I bought the phone. Hopefully HTC can right the ship, cause I love this phone and HTC, but you have to keep up in technology (especially wireless) not just in hardware but also in customers' perception of your products. (marketing)
I will say, I was putzing with my phone this weekend and a friend asked if it was The One, saying he was jealous after I said yep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for the GS3 vs Evo3d... it was actually the GS2 (Epic 4g Touch) vs the EVO3d... GS3 came out later.

numus said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=41720350&postcount=8 Did some basic assumptions on that percent.
As for the GS3 vs Evo3d... it was actually the GS2 (Epic 4g Touch) vs the EVO3d... GS3 came out later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure that percentage is much less than that even.

HTC hurt itself with Sense 3 as beautiful as it was, it lagged. Sg2 was smooth, a lot of employees at radioshack, best buy and sprint were recommending Samsung over htc because of the lag.
I met a radioshack employee who told me he had the og and got the 3D and then sold it for the sg2. He said he was happy with the move. Hi showed him my 3D at the time and yeah it lagged big time. Interestingly enough the guy told me to check out themikmik for some faster roms than the ones on xda for the 3D.
I don't want to discredit the guy with 12 friends who bailed on htc, they could have been mobile kiosk employees at the mall who recommended Samsung over htc.
Back on the current generation of phones, the one is better, sg4 lags. Might be too late if Samsung developed some brand loyalty over the last 2 yrs. As for the storagr/lack of sd, regular people don't care about it. Only here on xda people care so they can carry entire music collection and/or their pron. I'll be honest I would carry more pron with me lol
Its not the end of htc, someone will buy them to get into the mobile game, give them some cash and breathe life into the brand. I'm thinking HP would be a great company to take over htc.
Again the blame for htc downward trend lies with these guys that are leaving the company
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numus said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=41720350&postcount=8 Did some basic assumptions on that percent.
As for the GS3 vs Evo3d... it was actually the GS2 (Epic 4g Touch) vs the EVO3d... GS3 came out later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true and it was the evo lte vs gs3. I think another major issue that plagued the lte was the fact that the form factor is different than the one x.... Samsung made the gs3 the same form factor across the carriers. I believe this helped boost their rep with consumers. Because if I'm not mistaken HTC and sammy were pretty closely tied prior to the gs3 release ( and I know they marketed the **** out of the phone but again they only needed to advertise one device where HTC had what like 17 variants of the one last year?)
As for et4g vs 3d I had both... Twice actually and both times I preferred my 3d by a looooong shot. Battery life was so much better, beats, I liked the development better and as for speed they were close but I'll take a Qualcomm over an exynos anyday. The only reason j kept switching was because I was in a wimax area so refused to upgrade to lte and wanted to play with something else.

Another thing that hurt them was the numerous release of so many different models after the HTC evo all with different names, there was no market branding to it. think of htc sensation htc rhyme htc insert name here. Samsung chose the different route release on all carriers distinguished their brand with a common name "galaxy" series name. Every day users will see a Samsung and go oh that's a galaxy device.
HTC should have stuck to the evo brand as that was the one phone that people recognized and just used that name across the board, they are trying to do this now with the "One" series but it has been a little late.
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My whole thing about sd card is not for more storage to store music and such. It's the damn games that take up all the spaces. Games like Gameloft, gta and such 3d games uses a lot of storage space. I bought a bunch of gameloft games for a buck a piece back then and my son and i loved to play them. I'd be damn if i can't install all the games i have on a such flagship device.
Who knows, maybe just my family who play these games on these capable powerful devices.

sniperkill said:
I too have a HTCONE and love the quality of HTC phones. But I also have a Samsung Note II. As for HTC going down hill, it serves them right for them locking down their bootloaders. First with the Evo 3D, and now the HTCONE. Yeah, I know they gave us htcdev.com but like with samsung devices, its so easy unlocking the bootloaders because Samsung supports our beloved developers. HTC just wants control, or some control, like our parents. Htc wants to say, "no no, you cant do that with your phone, it might hurt it". Htc doesn't want to give us "users" the choice to break our phones if we want, which is why they lock the bootloaders.
Htc thinks their slick too. With the evo 3d they allowed us to unlock our bootloaders but they wouldn't allow us to flash kernels, or downgrade our bootloaders. Which is why our developers found a way to hack into our bootloaders with the evo 3d to gain s-off. But with the HTCONE they also allowed us to unlock our bootloaders, only now they made it possible to flash kernels, their thinking if they gave us access to flash kernels, maybe our developers wouldn't worry about hacking the htcone's bootloader to gain s-off. But little do they know that where ever there's a rule, there's always someone who will find a way to break that rule.
As far as im concerned, htc is getting what they deserve. Htc had some serious followers until they released the evo 3d with a locked bootloader. I alone know of a couple dozen htc fans who stopped buying htc phones just because of that actoin of theirs. So I still bought the htcone thinking they might have learned their lesson, but NOPE, instead they release a dev addition, asking for more money for it. Htc is starting to remind me of Apple, lmao...
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You can't really say that bc apple is locked down tight as far as development goes and they're the most profitable phone developers
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A few years ago, there were a lot less people with smartphones and were rockin phones like Rumor touches because texting was the hot thing. At that time, phones made by HTC were high end and distinct from others so people got to know the HTC brand as awesome! HTC lost that touch at some point and failed to continue that connection with customers by getting a little greedy (imo), trying to fast produce all these different phones at the same time which imo, some of them were soso quality and people started saying bad things about HTC. If they would have stuck with awesome, unique, distinct, and innovative devices, that's what they would be known for today. But instead, now people only see Samsung and Apple as top dogs. The " Quitely Brilliant" slogan fit them very well at one time because HTC was small (compared to Sami/Apple) but had a big punch when they brought a new phone out. Anyhow...I hope HTC can turn this around and if not, hopefully Google will buy them. I absolutely love my ONE btw.....
via phONE.

Chou needs to go. The beats investment, bloated sense 3 and a continuous dive in revenue have all been under his watch . Any other ceo would have been fired long ago.
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