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Hi all!
I was browsing through Samsung Galaxy S's Android Development Section when I saw this:
"11. Do NOT overcharge
--Why, when, where: Almost all new batteries have an overcharging protection. This means that the protection that is built into the battery will not let it charge to 100%. This is a feature, not a bug! This will help prolong your battery life while also keeping it safe from overheating/explosion/etc. Do not try to trick it and unplug and plug again until you see 100%, just get used to the fact that you can't have 100% battery anymore and live with it, or you risk destroying your battery."
posted by user "shantzu"
here:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=939752
I did "calibrate" my battery many times lately by unplugging it when charging and the replugging it. But I sure know I wont do it anymore! It's your choice whether or not you wanna do it!
I just wanted you to know this! Hope I've been helpful!
Cool story bro
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA Premium App
pgill34 said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA Premium App
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+1, blablabla (sorry msg needed to be +10 characters, but it's more now and more and more and more )
eXtink said:
+1, blablabla (sorry msg needed to be +10 characters, but it's more now and more and more and more )
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I didnt say this. I just quoted and I said that I wont charge my phone to 100% with the plug-unplug way. So if you take my advise do so, if you don't want to take it please stop posting ****!
vladstercr said:
I didnt say this. I just quoted and I said that I wont charge my phone to 100% with the plug-unplug way. So if you take my advise do so, if you don't want to take it please stop posting ****!
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I dont think he was posting ****. He just wanted to post "+1" (as in "me too"), but needed to respect the minimum character limit for a post.
Badly worded, but it doesnt look like he was making fun of you or anything.
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
I love this thread already
Isn't calibrating the battery all about fixing an Android bug?
Anyway, this reminds me, the Milestone overstates the full charge mV and underestimates the low battery mV.
So, if Battery Monitor Widget reports that I have 4230mV when it's fully charge and plugged in... it's really only 4170mV.
When it's reporting empty at 3200mV, it's really at 3300mV.
http://www.android-hilfe.de/root-ha...ku-infos-ladekurven-leistungsverbraucher.html
Externally measured or indication of the internal voltage measurement
3.30 volts / 3.20 volts
4.12 volts / 4.18 volts
That is, the stone over-estimated the voltage at the battery is full by ~ 60 mV and underestimated the power of up to 100 mV with an empty battery. The intent is well-battery protection (which is good too). It is pretended that 3.0 and 4.2 volts to discharge until it is loaded. In reality, there are more 3.1 volts and 4.15 volts (which by the way of battery manufacturers also better unanimous opinion!).
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Apparently, we are still protected even if we do calibrate the battery.
I'm pretty sure that Payce at android-hilfe actually took that battery out of his phone so I'll go with that.
Thanks for sharing
Good article
Over charging doesn't effect Lithium Ion batterys;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
DannyDroid said:
Over charging doesn't effect Lithium Ion batterys;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
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Gee thank you! I just wanted to start correcting this non-sense. The "overcharging" affects Lithium-Polymer batteries, not Lithium-Ion, so calibrating battery is HARMLESS!!!!
If you have a Samsung Galaxy S then you have this possibility.
I think we can close this thread.
Actually you can overcharge (any) battery, charging it to the higher voltages for higher capacity when used daily (as cell phones).
However it lowers total lifetime of the battery, but you can get more battery time.
But this isn't the cell phones' thing. IMHO charging circuit + circuits in battery won't allow you to do this. So you can't really overcharge.
This "calibrating" is even suggested by notebook manufacturers - you have to do full discharge -> full charge to set the voltage "limits" for 0% and 100%, so the battery indicator can estimate the remaining battery % precisely.
Just few quotations from http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries to support my opinions:
"In terms of optimal longevity, a charge voltage limit of 3.92V/cell works best but the capacity would be low."
"Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use? Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the lithium-ion battery is full, a correctly functioning charger will discontinue the charge and will only engage when the battery voltage drops to a low level."
"Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery."
The milestone has a Lithium-ion polymer battery which looks like they do suffer from over charging.
"It is important to note that trickle charging is not acceptable for lithium batteries; Li-ion chemistry cannot accept an overcharge without causing damage to the cell, possibly plating out lithium metal and becoming hazardous.[5] Most manufacturers claim a maximum and minimum voltage of 4.23 and 3.0 volts per cell. Taking any cell outside these limits can reduce the cell's capacity and ability to deliver full rated current.
Most dedicated lithium polymer chargers use a charge timer for safety; this cuts the charge after a predefined time (typically 90 minutes)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery
Someone will have to dig deeper into the OEM charger to see if it has some sort of cut off.
the thing with timer seems pretty weird to me. Try charging your battery with very little current - why should you cut it off after 90 minutes? Makes no sense to me, but I'm not an engineer so there may be a fact I overlook.
At the same time with noting overcharge will damage battery cell you should point out that there is no way to overcharge the battery without charging the battery CELLS itselves (not whole battery pack with its circuitry) with your custom charger without monitoring voltage/current.
However - yes, you're right, battery cells can be damaged.
I assume it would be the charging unit itself (i.e. the plug) which as the 90min cut off.
Charging via a USB takes ages (supplied at 5V) and without the "plug" it prob wouldn't have a cut off so the chances of over charging would be higher but would require leaving it in for longer.
I'm not sure, I'm only a first year electriton and haven't touched on batterys.
DannyDroid said:
Charging via a USB takes ages (supplied at 5V)
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The "plug" is just 230V~ -> 5V- transformer so the only difference is current, supplied voltage is the same. Btw I leave my phone in cradle for extended periods of time (24h+) and nothing bad happened. When it's at 100% it stops charging so I don't expect anything to happen.
Same with notebooks - it charges to 100% and stops. E.g. HP does stop charging until battery level drops to 90% so it won't "trickle charge" or do many 99%->100% cycles. Dunno how does the phone charging work, because it says 100% all the time. This can be possibly a bad thing
To the point that your phone shuts off? Is it bad for the battery?
I know overcharging it isn't because it drops a few percent and constantly charges back up to 100%...
Just wondering, thanks.
From what I understand,our li.ion. batts do not let you discharge all the way.( to save the life of the battery)
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
What ^^^ said. Even when "drained" your battery will still put out 3.5 volts +/-.
Ah, gotcha. Wonder why AT&T says to power the battery to 100% and drain until notified of a low percentage... Hmn...
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
That is basically calibrating your battery that you see so much about. The phone is designed to turn off when the battery voltage drops to a set level as it requires a minimum voltage to function. On the 100% charged side, sometimes the phone may think that the battery is fully charged when in reality it has not reached 4.2v.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA Premium App
If I am trying to make sure my battery stats have the full minimum and maximum capacity I run down to 1% before plugging in.
If I think my battery stats are fine I don't worry about when to plug in.
xThe Enforcer said:
To the point that your phone shuts off? Is it bad for the battery?
I know overcharging it isn't because it drops a few percent and constantly charges back up to 100%...
Just wondering, thanks.
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Basically, any device that uses a lithium battery has a device or process that monitors voltage and sets a minimum voltage that, when reached, turns off the device. This is required, otherwise lithium batteries would have a battery life that was only good for a few cycles. This applies to every application where lithium batteries are used. Phones, laptops, ipods, basically any modern portable device... or in my case, radio controlled model airplanes. The airplanes I fly use electric motors, and the voltage shut-off has two stages: one that cuts power to the motor but leaves power to the control surfaces so you can still land without crashing, and one that shuts off all power -you crash if you drain it this far. I know it isn't phone related, but it might help you understand the way it works. It's just the way it is. I've destroyed batteries in one cycle by running them below minimum voltage.
Thanks for all the info, ladies.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
keeping battery charge levels between 20-80% will allow your battery to maintain its maximum capacity.
drain the battery to 0% and you might find it dies just that little bit quicker the next day.
likewise, you know when charging the progress slows down around 90-100%? - that's the battery inefficiency around the max mark; this is damaging the battery too.
so, is there an app out there that will stop charging the battery when we get to 90%?
tasker can recognise the battery level but it has no action to stop the charging so presume ably its too low level. its also not available in the secure settings add on.
Do you have any links to back up these claims?
Using GT-I9000 my sent Tapatalk 2 from.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries/
Some kernels have these options. Battery life extender, where you can change the maximum charging level. I would guess though that by the time you're really affecting your battery life it will be time to upgrade anyway!
Some kernels have these options. Battery life extender, where you can change the maximum charging level. I would guess though that by the time you're really affecting your battery life it will be time to upgrade anyway!
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Thanks. I'll look into that. I'd probably leave it at 90% or 95% but 80% is the value I heard. Personnally I find charge doesn't really slow down until 98%.
Mugen batteries can be upto $100 each so I think it's worth protecting the investment and Lithium batteries are the same technology in the brand new Galaxy3 or iPhone4s than it is in a GalaxyS1 etc. So that's my motive.
I experience this too! when my phone are only charged at 90 percent it last more longer !
Battery calibrate.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda app-developers app
vinogradska5a said:
Battery calibrate.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda app-developers app
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Does calibration really needa 0-100. 100-0 then charge again from 0-100 (is the phone needs to ne off while charging?)
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio Z715e using xda app-developers app
Here's a technical explanation for why this kind of app needs to exist (and why I was Googling this charge-limiting idea tonight to find this thread):
jago25_98 brushed the surface of it in an earlier post, but was blown off. He's dead-on. The top 90-100% of a battery's capacity is very slightly damaging to the battery, which likes to stay in the 3.7-4.0V range (about 30% to 90%). 4.0v to 4.1v is about 90 to 100%, and 4.1v to 4.2v is "you can cram in about 5% more at your own risk" territory. The charge lingers around the 100% mark to cram more power in without exceeding 4.2v. This is why devices are shipped half-charged, not full-charged: the batteries are manufactured at a stable mid-range voltage and charge level. Then, they're tested and returned to that half-charged state for storage (!) and shipping. They like to stay in the middle, not the extreme ends (and definitely not fully discharged).
Charge algorithms are designed solely with capacity in mind, because not much care is put into "how long" something will last. They'd much rather abuse the battery and have the battery (or the device) replaced, than to put a larger battery in to make up for lost capacity by charging only to 80%.
For some of us, we understand that, and we'd like to limit our battery charge so the life of the battery (the capacity it will hold over time) will stand up to the test of time. If treated right, these batteries could last over 10 years. Charging to 100% each day and staying there all night (most of the time, it charges within an hour, leaving it sitting about a quarter of its life at a full charge) is pretty destructive, compared to using an app that caps it at 80% each night, saving the full cycles for monthly battery-meter refreshes.
If it can be done, I'd like to know... I might just dust off my SDK and crack open a "how-to" book to get started. About time I had a good app idea...
Here's some recent media that's brought this issue back to be bumped: http://gizmodo.com/you-should-try-to-keep-it-north-of-50-percent-as-much-619313207
Is that extender in NStools?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda app-developers app
If I remember correctly Mackay kernel - at least up to 4.3 Mackay - has allowed BLX. I think Semaphore allowed this as well in the manager app.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Soryuu said:
If I remember correctly Mackay kernel - at least up to 4.3 Mackay - has allowed BLX. I think Semaphore allowed this as well in the manager app.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
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Yes, I'm using Mackay Kernel+Rom ( 4.4.2 KK ) and you can find the BLX (battery life extender) in Mackay Settings tab.
Sorry for digging up this long submerged thread.
I'm quite interested in the idea of getting my phone to charge between 40-80% while I plug in my phone overnight. I wish to maximise the longevity of the battery on my phone. I'm thinking about using the app "Tasker" together with a Wifi controlled power switch. Has anyone done that?
(PS. I don't use a Galaxy S I9000 phone. Just searched and found this randomly)
FalconFour said:
Here's a technical explanation for why this kind of app needs to exist (and why I was Googling this charge-limiting idea tonight to find this thread):
jago25_98 brushed the surface of it in an earlier post, but was blown off. He's dead-on. The top 90-100% of a battery's capacity is very slightly damaging to the battery, which likes to stay in the 3.7-4.0V range (about 30% to 90%). 4.0v to 4.1v is about 90 to 100%, and 4.1v to 4.2v is "you can cram in about 5% more at your own risk" territory. The charge lingers around the 100% mark to cram more power in without exceeding 4.2v. This is why devices are shipped half-charged, not full-charged: the batteries are manufactured at a stable mid-range voltage and charge level. Then, they're tested and returned to that half-charged state for storage (!) and shipping. They like to stay in the middle, not the extreme ends (and definitely not fully discharged).
Charge algorithms are designed solely with capacity in mind, because not much care is put into "how long" something will last. They'd much rather abuse the battery and have the battery (or the device) replaced, than to put a larger battery in to make up for lost capacity by charging only to 80%.
For some of us, we understand that, and we'd like to limit our battery charge so the life of the battery (the capacity it will hold over time) will stand up to the test of time. If treated right, these batteries could last over 10 years. Charging to 100% each day and staying there all night (most of the time, it charges within an hour, leaving it sitting about a quarter of its life at a full charge) is pretty destructive, compared to using an app that caps it at 80% each night, saving the full cycles for monthly battery-meter refreshes.
If it can be done, I'd like to know... I might just dust off my SDK and crack open a "how-to" book to get started. About time I had a good app idea...
Here's some recent media that's brought this issue back to be bumped: http://gizmodo.com/you-should-try-to-keep-it-north-of-50-percent-as-much-619313207
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Click to collapse
I am thinking, if Android app can't limit battery charging level, at least there should be an app that shows some sort of notifications when charging has reached a certain level set by users.
There is an app for it. Battery Charge Limit.
jago25_98 said:
keeping battery charge levels between 20-80% will allow your battery to maintain its maximum capacity.
drain the battery to 0% and you might find it dies just that little bit quicker the next day.
likewise, you know when charging the progress slows down around 90-100%? - that's the battery inefficiency around the max mark; this is damaging the battery too.
so, is there an app out there that will stop charging the battery when we get to 90%?
tasker can recognise the battery level but it has no action to stop the charging so presume ably its too low level. its also not available in the secure settings add on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get this app https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002 here. It also has tasker integration
Hey all,
I've been experimenting with the rear 4-pin connector on the back of the droid 4 (pogo-pins for the inductive charging rear door)
Connected a current limited power supply to Gnd and Vin on the back of my Droid 4 (pin lower right = gnd, pin lower left = Vin) at 5.0V and I had charging occurring at a nice speedy rate. Screen showed charging, amperage was around 1500mA to start scaling down to 1300mA-1100mA as it reached full charge. It seems to pass through the Lithium Ion battery management circuity so appears to be a safe way to dump in lots of power. Obviously these pins are designed to pick up power from the rear inductive charging cover that Motorola produced, but I wanted to try just pure 5.0V power. It appears that it is not bypassing or defeating the battery temp/overcharging safety circuit but of course test at your own will in a safe environment. I personally noted that if the battery was 'warm' the charge rate was reduced to avoid overtemp. Also it would scale down as the on-screen-indicator showed it was reaching full charge.
I’m thinking of grabbing some extra rear covers and making up some drop-in charging stations or alternative inputs (like solar/etc.)
Nice to get away from having to charge on the USB Micro connector which appears to limit charging current and cause wear-and-tear.
This seems like a VERY good thing if someone was building an external battery pack that fit onto the phone (like the one for the iPhone)…you could power it on, charge via this connector, and shut it down whenever you liked. The power draw on the phone drops off massively once it is charged so if you started with a full charge, it could float the battery all the way to empty.
Time to experiment! My first build will likely be a drop-in docking station.
Again, for reference:
Bottom right (when viewing back, camera at the top):
Gnd is Lower Right – Nearest the microUSB connector
Vin is Lower Left – Opposite side from Gnd on the bottom row
Don’t hit it with too much voltage! I limited myself to about 4.8V and 1700mA max. I'd expect over-voltage on these pins could damage the battery management circuity and fry the phone. I was using a good regulated supply with meters.
Cheers,
This is awesome, thanks for this! Might have to play with a cover and done batteries at some point... Please let us all know how your experiments go!
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using xda app-developers app
I like the idea of an expanded battery very useful.
I have a small solar cell + battery to charge my phone by USB already.
That is bad ass. Post some pics of your first prototype
Sent from my DROID4 using xda premium
Great news, thanks for your time, man.
Just wondering but do you know what the other 2 pins are for?
I got one with a broken usb port for parts and am now wondering if I could use this to build a fix.
Most any (not all) Li-ion battery is rated for at least a 1C charge rate. So with a 1785 mAh Li-ion battery you should be able to safely charge at 1785 mA. The trade off is the faster you charge it the more you reduce overall battery life. For example (not real numbers) if the expected life of the battery is 500 charges (a charge is the amount of current to charge the battery from it's nominal voltage to fully charged and has no correlation to how many times you plug it into a charger) then charging it at 0.75C might increase it's life significantly to 750 to 1000 charges.
Note: the stock wall wart is speced at 850 mA at 5.1 V output (very odd that voltage...).
Brandon314159 said:
Nice to get away from having to charge on the USB Micro connector which appears to limit charging current and cause wear-and-tear.
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More likely it's the power supply. Most all PC usb ports put out 500 mA at 5.0 V. Most (USB) wall warts are rated at 1000 mA at 5.0 V.
What has me worried is that the phone appears to overcharge the battery to something like 4.317 V or even 4.351 V... I'm hoping this is just an error in the phone/app voltage reporting, but then again it could just be the way they get that 1785 mAh capacity from the battery. Overcharging the battery in this way could well be safe and would have the effect of increasing it's capacity, but it will significantly reduce it's life as well. You would not expect a Li-ion battery to be charged over 4.2 V and preferably something like 4.17 V
Can you use those pins to directly measure the battery voltage? I was going to measure mine directly to compare with Battery Monitor Widget reporting but decided I didn't want to remove the sticker from the back of the battery and I couldn't get a reading from the push pin contacts.
Quick7135 said:
What has me worried is that the phone appears to overcharge the battery to something like 4.317 V or even 4.351 V... I'm hoping this is just an error in the phone/app voltage reporting, but then again it could just be the way they get that 1785 mAh capacity from the battery. Overcharging the battery in this way could well be safe and would have the effect of increasing it's capacity, but it will significantly reduce it's life as well. You would not expect a Li-ion battery to be charged over 4.2 V and preferably something like 4.17 V
Can you use those pins to directly measure the battery voltage? I was going to measure mine directly to compare with Battery Monitor Widget reporting but decided I didn't want to remove the sticker from the back of the battery and I couldn't get a reading from the push pin contacts.
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- You cannot use those pins to measure battery voltage as they are an input to the charger... IE they do not tie directly to the battery. You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
- There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
-Also, the other two pins are data lines...not sure if In/out compatible but one is Batt Temp and the other is Communication (for determining battery type). The phone doesn't like having these pins futzed with (can cause reboots/lockups) so there is clearly something on the other end...but sounds like the protection is weak regarding input into the processor/etc.
Once I have my phone near a camera, I will photo my connection method/mods (no direct soldering in-case I have to warranty the phone for other issues). That gave me 6" pigtails of wire that I have hiding behind my cheap-o case right now waiting for proper connections (I exited through the speaker hole on the stock back cover).
Brandon314159 said:
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
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which mod did this to u? what reason did he give to do that to u? just want to know... cuz that sounds really uncool
myfishbear said:
which mod did this to u? what reason did he give to do that to u? just want to know... cuz that sounds really uncool
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I don't wanna get anyone in trouble or piss peeps off. PM me if ya want more details.
It was pretty uncool, all things considered.
Oh well, happier here already!
you know what u should add is a resistor and a on/off toggle for safety
Brandon314159 said:
- You cannot use those pins to measure battery voltage as they are an input to the charger... IE they do not tie directly to the battery. You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
- There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
-Also, the other two pins are data lines...not sure if In/out compatible but one is Batt Temp and the other is Communication (for determining battery type). The phone doesn't like having these pins futzed with (can cause reboots/lockups) so there is clearly something on the other end...but sounds like the protection is weak regarding input into the processor/etc.
Once I have my phone near a camera, I will photo my connection method/mods (no direct soldering in-case I have to warranty the phone for other issues). That gave me 6" pigtails of wire that I have hiding behind my cheap-o case right now waiting for proper connections (I exited through the speaker hole on the stock back cover).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very excited to see those photos. I can't imagine your post getting removed for that sort of information, that is a shame... Hardware mods are just as much fun as software mods, imho! Plus, they have the added bonus that there is a slight risk of explosion, something I err, enjoy
Brandon314159 said:
- You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
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Click to collapse
Drat. I really didn't want to peal off the sticker... heh, maybe I could just punch through it with the needle probes and only leave 2 tiny holes .
There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
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Click to collapse
I have done a lot of googling and failed. I'm skeptical that I can't find any "new Li-ion chemistry". The only thing I did find was a pointer to an Anandtech article where the writer said he "heard" they were using a "new Li-ion chemistry" ... with no references or cites. In any event I agree it is mostly a non-issue for most everyone else. I figure they have it all designed for some target duty cycle -- probably about 1 year? maybe 2? Thing is, I plan to keep my phone for 4 or more years like all my past smart phones. The difference this time is that the battery is non-removeable (yes, I know it can be done with tools and some risk). I was hoping to find an app that would interface with the battery management and allow a configurable threshold for the "fully charged" cutoff. With a charging cutoff at about 90% I should be able to triple the life of my battery.
sigh... sorry for the hijack (but there isn't much on the actually battery operation, even around here).
Quick7135 said:
I was hoping to find an app that would interface with the battery management and allow a configurable threshold for the "fully charged" cutoff. With a charging cutoff at about 90% I should be able to triple the life of my battery.
sigh... sorry for the hijack (but there isn't much on the actually battery operation, even around here).
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drain the phone and charge it up in charging mode with the stock charger. this will calibrate your battery so it will charge to 100%
myfishbear said:
drain the phone and charge it up in charging mode with the stock charger. this will calibrate your battery so it will charge to 100%
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Click to collapse
He wants to make it so it ONLY takes charges to 90%, to extend the duty cycle of the battery. Honestly, I would just not worry about it, and replace the battery as necessary.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app
I put my reply over on this thread that you created, which seems to be more on-topic:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1856514
Cheers!
podspi said:
He wants to make it so it ONLY takes charges to 90%, to extend the duty cycle of the battery. Honestly, I would just not worry about it, and replace the battery as necessary.
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You're probably right but I'm not clear on the risks of damage to the hardware when prying out the non-replaceable battery.
Brandon314159 said:
I put my reply over on this thread that you created, which seems to be more on-topic:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1856514
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Thanks. and I do apologize (again) for the interruption here. It won't happen again.
Quick7135 said:
You're probably right but I'm not clear on the risks of damage to the hardware when prying out the non-replaceable battery.
Thanks. and I do apologize (again) for the interruption here. It won't happen again.
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I'd think you'd be at higher risk of damage playing with the software/firmware interface that controls battery charging than doing an actual battery swap.
It appears to be pretty easy: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-4-Teardown/7759/1
No worries on cross posting...just figured better to keep it all over there where there is already a few replies on-topic.
Cheers,
BTW noticed today that the phone says "Charging - Connected to an inductive charging mat" when you connect up power to the back.
I will try to get a shot of the connection when I get home.
My USB port broke... would you think this would charge a completely dead battery.. thank you kindly for your time...
update this will charge a completely dead battery... took an OEM charger cut it open used the red and black... worked perfectly...
why do they call it common sense when only a few people have it...
So, I'm nervous about the fact that I can't replace the battery on my ONE. So far every night I've been staying up late until the phone dies, then plugging it in, waiting til the light stops flashing, then powering it up to charge while on overnight.
Problem is, this phone has awesome battery life. Right now at 10.30pm, I'm sitting at 41%, and debating just leaving it unplugged all night.
So what's the deal with memory on these batteries? How much, say over a 2 yr span, will charging a non-drained battery shorten its lifespan or lessen its capacity?
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MadDogMaddux said:
So what's the deal with memory on these batteries? How much, say over a 2 yr span, will charging a non-drained battery shorten its lifespan or lessen its capacity?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
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Lithium ion batteries are awesome. They are lighter, smaller and do not suffer from "memory effect."
Do not drain then fully recharge this phone on a regular basis. That will accelerate capacitance loss. Keep it charged as much as possible, avoid fast charging, try to use your PC to charge it overnight. Do not leave it charging for too long (i.e. days on end). Though on board computers can refuse charging, it is best to stay on the safe side.
2 years, you will definitely notice a decrease in battery life, but by the time it becomes intolerable, you will have upgraded. I can almost guarantee that.
EDIT: Please add to/refute any statements I made if you have greater knowledge on this subject, people.
Thanks! Can you explain why using mr PC to charge is better?
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MadDogMaddux said:
Thanks! Can you explain why using mr PC to charge is better?
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Because it's a slower charge at a lower amp rating prolongs battery life by not boiling the cells
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customhdrider said:
Because it's a slower charge at a lower amp rating prolongs battery life by not boiling the cells
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Gottit. Thanks!
No problem,glad I could shed some light on the subject
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MadDogMaddux said:
So, I'm nervous about the fact that I can't replace the battery on my ONE. So far every night I've been staying up late until the phone dies, then plugging it in, waiting til the light stops flashing, then powering it up to charge while on overnight.
Problem is, this phone has awesome battery life. Right now at 10.30pm, I'm sitting at 41%, and debating just leaving it unplugged all night.
So what's the deal with memory on these batteries? How much, say over a 2 yr span, will charging a non-drained battery shorten its lifespan or lessen its capacity?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
As was previously noted, what you're doing is actually the worst possible thing you can do to a lithium ion battery. In general, best practice is to keep your battery somewhere between 10%-95% charge whenever possible. Once a month, you should "cycle" your battery under 10% (but not fully drained) to keep everything in peak condition. If you're ever not going to use the phone for any length of time, best practice is to drain to 40% and store in a cool, dark area.
When you first get a new device, you do want to condition it by doing three to five (varies on the device) full charge/discharge cycles, but after that, once a month with a conditioning cycle will take care of things for you. And again, as was previously noted, it's not a great idea to leave your phone charging overnight because you can't always depend on the battery controller chip.
These newer cells are all rated to relatively high cycle lifetimes, so I wouldn't worry overmuch. At that point, capacity is supposed to start degrading, although naturally it's going to happen a bit earlier for any number of reasons. I'd be much more worried about avoiding heat though than overcharge.
I'm assuming charging it slowly would keep it slightly cooler than a wall socket and closer to room temp, the better.
There is probably some other reason, but I'm not the person to ask. you can do some independent research. :good:
Just charge your phone when it needs it and don't when it doesn't. Do that and you'll be good until you upgrade no problem.
EDIT: Oh, beat me to it... haha
EDIT: Also, does the 40% apply to phones? Mobile devices never really turn off, they just go into deep sleep, I'm told. I was going to say that too, but then I remembered this. Does the 40% rule apply to non-removable batteries?
sauprankul said:
I'm assuming charging it slowly would keep it slightly cooler than a wall socket and closer to room temp, the better.
There is probably some other reason, but I'm not the person to ask. you can do some independent research. :good:
Just charge your phone when it needs it and don't when it doesn't. Do that and you'll be good until you upgrade no problem.
EDIT: Oh, beat me to it... haha
EDIT: Also, does the 40% apply to phones? Mobile devices never really turn off, they just go into deep sleep, I'm told. I was going to say that too, but then I remembered this. Does the 40% rule apply to non-removable batteries?
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It's a question of how much voltage you're chucking into the battery. If you use a low-voltage wall adapter it'll be the same as if you were charging from your PC.
The 40% rule applies to any battery, and they'll all discharge over time anyway (connected or no). If you shut your phone off, everything powers down except (if memory serves) what's necessary to run the internal clock. The impact that has should be pretty minimal (unless you're trying to bury your One for a thousand years, in which case...can't help you there).
Rirere said:
It's a question of how much voltage you're chucking into the battery. If you use a low-voltage wall adapter it'll be the same as if you were charging from your PC.
(unless you're trying to bury your One for a thousand years, in which case...can't help you there).
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Who would buy a low voltage wall adapter?
And yes, I would like to bury my One safely for a thousand years, so when it is found by the generation of humadroids, they will see it and be amazed that a civilization so primitive could achieve such technological mastery.
sauprankul said:
Who would buy a low voltage wall adapter?
And yes, I would like to bury my One safely for a thousand years, so when it is found by the generation of humadroids, they will see it and be amazed that a civilization so primitive could achieve such technological mastery.
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I don't know that I bought any, but I have a few lying around from yesteryear's gadgetry.
And at that point, why not launch it into space instead, a la HTC Nexus One?
So I use my phone as my alarm clock and also run the Relax and Sleep app all night. Otherwise I'd just plug it into my lappy throughout the day and not worry about it.
But that raises another question: running the phone overnight while charging it at the same time. Bad juju?
I plugged into my lappy last night around midnight, woke up this morning and had about 95% charge, rather than the usual 100%. I'm assuming this is the result of power output for Relax and Sleep cutting int power input from charging.
I've also been in the habit of leaving my EVO 4G plugged in while tethering. I assume this is also a bad plan?
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sauprankul said:
Lithium ion batteries are awesome. They are lighter, smaller and do not suffer from "memory effect."
Do not drain then fully recharge this phone on a regular basis. That will accelerate capacitance loss. Keep it charged as much as possible, avoid fast charging, try to use your PC to charge it overnight. Do not leave it charging for too long (i.e. days on end). Though on board computers can refuse charging, it is best to stay on the safe side.
2 years, you will definitely notice a decrease in battery life, but by the time it becomes intolerable, you will have upgraded. I can almost guarantee that.
EDIT: Please add to/refute any statements I made if you have greater knowledge on this subject, people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MOST of this advice is 100% true.
The only part that is not correct information is the advice to not let it die. It is perfectly OK to do this as long as you don't deep discharge the battery... Example like let it die then not charge it for like a week or something.
The science behind this is the fact that lithium ion batteries actually have a nominal voltage operating range which is like 3.2 - 4.3 volts or something like that. Your device is designed to shut itself down when it gets to about 3.5... This is done to protect the battery from deep discharge cycles.
Letting it die is perfectly alright. Just make sure you charge it soon after.
Also, you don't need to use your PC to charge it. That is in no way necessary. Your device came with a wall charger for a reason...
There are safety features built into the kernel and cable to keep you from damaging the device during charge. Use the wall.. It is perfectly safe and faster / more practical.
MadDogMaddux said:
So I use my phone as my alarm clock and also run the Relax and Sleep app all night. Otherwise I'd just plug it into my lappy throughout the day and not worry about it.
But that raises another question: running the phone overnight while charging it at the same time. Bad juju?
I plugged into my lappy last night around midnight, woke up this morning and had about 95% charge, rather than the usual 100%. I'm assuming this is the result of power output for Relax and Sleep cutting int power input from charging.
I've also been in the habit of leaving my EVO 4G plugged in while tethering. I assume this is also a bad plan?
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Your battery will automatically cycle between 95%-99.9999% to prevent overcharge, so you're fine on this front. You probably just caught it on the low end of the cycle.
The issue with charging + tethering is that a phone draws more power when plugged in (ramping up processor, etc.), and tethering eats a lot of power. More importantly, both charging the battery and running the antennas for tethering generate a lot of heat. So long as you watch your battery temp (most good tethering apps will toss in a temperature gauge, although if you're using stock you'll need another solution), you should be fine, but heat is one of the fastest ways to kill a Li-ion battery.
Admiral Sir Manley Power said:
MOST of this advice is 100% true.
The only part that is not correct information is the advice to not let it die. It is perfectly OK to do this as long as you don't deep discharge the battery... Example like let it die then not charge it for like a week or something.
The science behind this is the fact that lithium ion batteries actually have a nominal voltage operating range which is like 3.2 - 4.3 volts or something like that. Your device is designed to shut itself down when it gets to about 3.5... This is done to protect the battery from deep discharge cycles.
Letting it die is perfectly alright. Just make sure you charge it soon after.
Also, you don't need to use your PC to charge it. That is in no way necessary. Your device came with a wall charger for a reason...
There are safety features built into the kernel and cable to keep you from damaging the device during charge. Use the wall.. It is perfectly safe and faster / more practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although a full normal discharge (phone powering off) won't kill your battery in one go, it's a deeper discharge than I would recommend on a regular basis. Things are built with margins of safety, but I don't like playing on the edge when I can avoid it. The difference between 10%-15% isn't too much either when it comes to my use-case either, so I'm content to bounce between 20/30-95 most of the time.
Rirere said:
Your battery will automatically cycle between 95%-99.9999% to prevent overcharge, so you're fine on this front. You probably just caught it on the low end of the cycle.
The issue with charging + tethering is that a phone draws more power when plugged in (ramping up processor, etc.), and tethering eats a lot of power. More importantly, both charging the battery and running the antennas for tethering generate a lot of heat. So long as you watch your battery temp (most good tethering apps will toss in a temperature gauge, although if you're using stock you'll need another solution), you should be fine, but heat is one of the fastest ways to kill a Li-ion battery.
Although a full normal discharge (phone powering off) won't kill your battery in one go, it's a deeper discharge than I would recommend on a regular basis. Things are built with margins of safety, but I don't like playing on the edge when I can avoid it. The difference between 10%-15% isn't too much either when it comes to my use-case either, so I'm content to bounce between 20/30-95 most of the time.
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That is certainly a good point as well. No need to play on the edge of the cliffs. lol
You see my point tho
About safety margins