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Battery charging: what is the best way?

Hello all,
Just received my TYTN II and I love it so far.
I have 2 questions about charging the battery. Anyone has any recommendations?
1. In the manual it is stated that when first used, the battery should be fully charged and then fully discharged a few times to get the best out of it. But when I discharge the battery, at 10% my phone shows a warning that I will lose all of my data if I don't recharge immediately. Is it allowed to use the battery till 0%? Won't it hard reset when reaching 0%, which is the case in many other PocketPC's?
Note: discharge the battery by using it in the phone, NOT by short circuiting the + and - of the battery!!!
2. Certain manufacturers claim their batteries should be charged as frequently as possible (connecting the charger on the phone as often as possible) while others claim that their batteries should be discharged as much as possible before recharging. What is the best way for Kaiser/TYTN II? What is your experience?
Thanks.

menneisyys has an article about that.
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&cat=49
and he did mention that charging as often as possible turns out to be best for the battery!

bno25 said:
Won't it hard reset when reaching 0%
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nope, it won't

So if im sitting at home and my phone is fully charged, should I unplug it or keep it charging if im not going anywhere.

VDubGli said:
So if im sitting at home and my phone is fully charged, should I unplug it or keep it charging if im not going anywhere.
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I won't hurt it to be left on charge, the phone has circuitry to manage the battery, it won't hurt it at all.
Lithiums don't need cycling and are only ruined if discharged too far down and not re-charged right away.
The only issue I have with leaving the phone always on charge is that occasionally my Kaiser locks-up when full. This is probably more a software issue specific to my Kaiser's setup but it sucks when it happens!

Charging from PC - worth while?

Is charging our Kaisers from the PC ok? How much power does the USB provide to the Kaiser? Same as the standard adapter? I am asking this because I found no answer on the forum and I would prefer to load it directly from the PC every time rather than keep using the standard charger and putting it in the power outlet.

my advice for you to stop this option
because normaly we keep the phone connected to the pc for a long time and it makes the phone in charging mode all the time and iam sure that will make the battery dies fast
stop this option by disabling it from the battery options you can see it by clicking on the battery icon on the start bar
greetings

My phone has been plugged in to the USB at work all day, 5 days a week, for 5 months now. I can still get about 2 days out of the battery when I need to - for instance, after unplugging it each Friday at 5 I usually won't have to charge it until the same time on Sunday, the only time it generally does get plugged into the wall charger. I'm pretty sure my battery performance is still on a par with most people's - ie, not amazing, but quite livable with. It's certainly not showing any signs of harm from overcharging.

Boinng said:
My phone has been plugged in to the USB at work all day, 5 days a week, for 5 months now. I can still get about 2 days out of the battery when I need to - for instance, after unplugging it each Friday at 5 I usually won't have to charge it until the same time on Sunday, the only time it generally does get plugged into the wall charger. I'm pretty sure my battery performance is still on a par with most people's - ie, not amazing, but quite livable with. It's certainly not showing any signs of harm from overcharging.
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Same here.. no problems. I don't even know where my charger is.

I charge mine from the PC all day too, and it stops charging when its at 100%. The bottom line is this: a USB port delivers a minimum of 500ma at 5v, the wall charger is probably very close if not more than that. The charging circuit in the phone does all the work of converting the 5dc into a charging voltage/current required by the battery, usually ramping up and down. Theres no difference other than maximum current between a USB port and ANY 5vdc adapter.

Wall wart gives 5V/1A. USB at 5V/500mA will not harm your battery. If you're using the standard battery, USB charging is appropriate to keep it topped up.
RMD

Isn't the constant charging of the batter bad for it?
I mean you charge it use it for a while then hook it up again and so on, isnt it better for the battery if you wait until it says that you have to recharge it?

According to my BatteryStatus, my wall charger gives me around +500-600mA (depending on programs running) and USB 2.0 charging from the front port on my computer gives about +100-300mA (depending on what's plugged into the computer and program usage).

Insaneboy said:
Isn't the constant charging of the batter bad for it?
I mean you charge it use it for a while then hook it up again and so on, isnt it better for the battery if you wait until it says that you have to recharge it?
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That was a nicad battery issue lithium batteries do not have that issue.
-McMex

i think the point here is not if you charge it by usb or charger
for many people as they said it goes as well ok but it's an old advice used to be known that it's not good for your battery health to be on the charger all the time
also the same fact that it's always better to let the battery goes empty before you recharge it again some people have the sickness of recharging batteries when it's just gets 5 percent less , then they immaditaly start to recharge it again and this is a big mistake because in the long period the first levels of the battery start to die because they have never been used

mcmexican said:
That was a nicad battery issue lithium batteries do not have that issue.
-McMex
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Didn't know that.
Thanks.

haam1978 said:
the same fact that it's always better to let the battery goes empty before you recharge it again some people have the sickness of recharging batteries when it's just gets 5 percent less , then they immaditaly start to recharge it again and this is a big mistake because in the long period the first levels of the battery start to die because they have never been used
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Actually, its quite the opposite of what you say. If you let Lithium batteries discharge all the way, they will loose their capacity faster.
The following link will back up my claim:
http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
Relevant quote: "Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns."

usb v wall charger
My kaiser
wall charger charges battery from flat (1%) in 1 hour
USB on PC takes 4 hours to go from 15 to 80%, only over night did it get to 100%.
I use wall charger everyday now.

axonn said:
Is charging our Kaisers from the PC ok? How much power does the USB provide to the Kaiser? Same as the standard adapter? I am asking this because I found no answer on the forum and I would prefer to load it directly from the PC every time rather than keep using the standard charger and putting it in the power outlet.
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i use the pc option especially when i am traveling and only have my portable. When using my portable, i plug my phone in to get a charge... i like this option as it saves me from having to lug around another adaptor as well as being able to charge my phone just off the batteries of my portable at any time,,,, good option

posted twice --- as usual being a post hog

It's fine. It just takes longer to charge, especially if you're transferring a lot of data.

With the lithium ion chemistry, it is very detrimental to the battery if you let it run down to empty all the time. The batteries do not like this at all and will exhaust much quicker this way. If you were to store the batteries, you should store them at 40% in a cool place as that would only lose 2% of life per year I believe. At 100% storage, you can lost 20% a year of life. A little reading at that battery university website goes a long way

johnny13oi said:
With the lithium ion chemistry, it is very detrimental to the battery if you let it run down to empty all the time. The batteries do not like this at all and will exhaust much quicker this way. If you were to store the batteries, you should store them at 40% in a cool place as that would only lose 2% of life per year I believe. At 100% storage, you can lost 20% a year of life. A little reading at that battery university website goes a long way
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So what happens when your battery that you leave stored at 100% loses 20% a year and a few years later it hits 40%?

Battery
haam1978: You are surely right for NiMh. But I don't know about Li-Ion. Time will tell. For now, I prefer to do it your way: discharge almost completely, BUT NOT TO 0%. Mostly to 5 - 10%. But the problem is that my stupid Windows doesn't report the life of the battery accurately ::- (. I got a Mugen 3000 Mah batt...
rotohammer & johnny13oi: Interesting website indeed. Unfortunately as I told haam, I can't get an accurate battery reading for this huge battery I got. Anyway, I'm still reviewing it ::- D.

rotohammer said:
Actually, its quite the opposite of what you say. If you let Lithium batteries discharge all the way, they will loose their capacity faster.
The following link will back up my claim:
http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
Relevant quote: "Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns."
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100% correct.
On a side note, my kaiser will get fully charged way faster when connected to the wall as opposed to USB. (always connected to a desktop with a real big UPS).

Battery abuse.. or not?

What i was wondering, i really like to do some to flashing and doing stuff with my phone. so i noticed that i plug in and out my phone to my usb cable like 12 times a day? sometimes even more,
isnt this bad for the battery? which keeps charging and discharging? i know i can turn the usb charging off but i just wanted to know if it's bad or not.

Imperium said:
What i was wondering, i really like to do some to flashing and doing stuff with my phone. so i noticed that i plug in and out my phone to my usb cable like 12 times a day? sometimes even more,
isnt this bad for the battery? which keeps charging and discharging? i know i can turn the usb charging off but i just wanted to know if it's bad or not.
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The Old NiCad batteries had what you would call a "memory " and in order to get a full charge you were required to completely discharge them before recharging them. The newer Lithium ion / Lithium polymer batteries have no such "memory " and can be fully charged at any time without ill effect. All this is according to the manufacturer. There are still some who insist that the key to battery life is to fully discharge before charging.

It is better to keep Li Ion batteries charged and not let them discharge fully at all. This damages and/or reduces battery life.
I do what you do most of the time at work and no ill side effects now for over two years with pocket pc phones.

Anyway of disabling usb charging on Galaxy S I9000?

Hi folks,
Been searching for a hack or tool to disable usb charging while connecting device to laptop usb port to prolong battery life. But to my disappointment, there's none at the moment
Aren't there any solution for this at all from the developers?
So far, the only tool that I've googled is USB Charge Commander but that doesn't work on Galaxy S
It's designed for ZTE Blade/Orange San Francisco handset only.
Appreciate for any tips given. Thanks!

Sassy,
there is no need for such a tool. Since you are using a Lithium-ion battery this would NOT prolong your battery life. This type of battery has no such thing as a memory effect. The battery will take no damage if you charge it every time. You don´t have to wait till it is fully empty. Actually, if you discharge your battery completely every time, it may cause shorter battery life in the end...
Have Fun
Chris

How about this for a reason:
I don't want the phone to charge off of my laptop which itself is running off of a battery, but I do need a USB connection for application debugging. My laptop's battery does not last nearly as long as my phone, so I would prefer that the phone does not charge via USB when my laptop is running on batteries.
No solution?

USB charging shortens battery life
Indeed, I've been looking for such a solution of USB connection without charging for my Galaxy S. I also came across a suggestion of clipping the power +5V wire of the USB cable which I believe would not work as that would disable the detection of USB connection.
Back to the battery life of lithium battery, we know that partial discharge is fine as there is no memory effect. However, every discharging cycle matters and counts if we believe the info from the Battery University page, Table 2 (batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries). According to the test and assumptions, if we charge the battery at 10% of Depth of Discharging (or approx. 90% of capacity), we have 4700 cycles before the battery is worn out. Yeah, 4700 seems a big number. It is not that big if we connect our phone via USB to a PC very often.
We don't know the exact no. of discharge/charge cycles a li-ion battery on our mobile phone can tolerates before its end of life. If you believe EVERY CYCLE COUNTS, you'd better find a solution.
Franky

You can try using File Expert https://market.android.com/details?id=xcxin.filexpert&feature=related_apps for accessing the files via WIFI or connect your phone via Bluetooth.

rustamabd said:
My laptop's battery does not last nearly as long as my phone, so I would prefer that the phone does not charge via USB when my laptop is running on batteries.
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Typical laptop batteries are around the 4.4Ah mark, the phone draws 95mA from the USB port while charging. This means you could charge your phone continuously for 46 hours off a typical laptop. You won't notice the difference in practical usage at all. This is about the same amount of power as your laptop CPU doing actual work for a few minutes. There are many other factors that have a far greater impact on your laptop battery than charging a phone.
pistachia said:
We have 4700 cycles before the battery is worn out. Yeah, 4700 seems a big number. It is not that big if we connect our phone via USB to a PC very often.
...
If you believe EVERY CYCLE COUNTS, you'd better find a solution.
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Click to collapse
If you look at the table in detail you'll find that 4700 cycles at 10% recharge is roughly 10 times the 500 cycles at 100% recharge. It's an almost linear relationship and there's nothing to be gained by letting your phone discharge further rather than putting it back on charge when it drops to 10%. The cycles aren't a counter after which suddenly everything stops.
Also they are hammering their battery pretty hard. A 1C charge is roughly 4 times higher than what the SGS battery experiences. The faster the charge the lower the life, so expect your phone to last longer than 4700 cycles.
On top of everything with replacement batteries costing a whole $5 it's not worth losing sleep over.

Yeah, you're right. If a replacement battery costs that little, even my quoted analysis really matters, it does not worth 'counting' at all! Just use the way you want and make sure you got one replacement before it's out of market.

garbz said:
...the phone draws 95mA from the USB port...
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Are you sure about this? Where does this info come from? The info I have is 500mA for a USB 2.0 port...

The option is available in MIUI

[Q] First charge, how to do it?

Much has been said about the best way to proceed with new battery technologies, but I would like to ask how you did things when you bought your OB and charged it for the first time. Did you consume the remaining ~30% left from factory before the first charge or did you charge it regardless what was left? when you did charged it, did you wait 8hrs or more to extend battery life in the future or just waited until it said it was full?
Thanks for your help

sensei22 said:
Much has been said about the best way to proceed with new battery technologies, but I would like to ask how you did things when you bought your OB and charged it for the first time. Did you consume the remaining ~30% left from factory before the first charge or did you charge it regardless what was left? when you did charged it, did you wait 8hrs or more to extend battery life in the future or just waited until it said it was full?
Thanks for your help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First charge: well, you grab the usb cable. One side, the small connector you connect it to the upper side of the phone. The big usb connector, you connect it to the AC-to-USB adapter. Then, you plug in to the wall this big piece. Just kidding
If you read, you will find the experts saying that Li-ion batteries don't have memory effect and you don't need to do a first charge or full charge-discharge cycles. God forbid that I contradict them, but my experience says that the best is doing cycles from around 0% (well, below 10% you can plug it in), to 100%. Never parcial charges (for example from 65% to 100%, or from 20% to 60%), although I lately do lots of parcial charges because I can't play anymore to run out of battery.
The first remaining 30% out of the box, well although I knew I "shouldn't" use it (maybe), I just do because on the way home after picking it up, well, I want to try it! It won't hurt. Use it and when it's at 10%, charge it completely, to 100% and hang on a while before unplugging.
EDIT: no need to wait 8 hours or anything. Just 100% and some more minutes. Charger will stop letting the electricity go once the phone has said "hey, I'm fully charged". It's a environmental and energy saving thing. Completely pointless waiting hours (it won't charge).

8 hours ? Nope
Just normal charge when the battery is completely depeleted (about 5% or less)
so it i'll be replaced with the new 'ion' or something,then the longer battery life you'll get
When battery is still full or half of it's capacity (more or less), it's not recommended to charge it
Let's take an example, a half burnt tree branch, what happen to the burnt one if you keep burning the branch? Ashes
That's what i think and do
Sent from my heart into yours

Thanks for your responses guys, I want to clear out all my doubts since I want to buy this cell phone, and hopefully I can find a good price soon

Does the OB original charger prevent overcharge?
I usually leave my OB connected to charging during the night. Is it ok?

ohadz said:
Does the OB original charger prevent overcharge?
I usually leave my OB connected to charging during the night. Is it ok?
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Click to collapse
Yes, it's okay