Database Develop

Rename forums to reduce CDMA Milestone confusion

Now that a significant number of US carriers (as well as MTS Canada) have released the CDMA Milestone, which is compatible with Verizon Droid firmwares and *not* with GSM Milestone firmwares...
May I suggest a small renaming to reduce confusion?
Motorola Milestone Android Development -> Motorola Milestone (GSM) Android Development
Motorola Droid Android Development -> Motorola Droid (and CDMA Milestone) Android Development
There have already been people who got carried way trying to apply GSM Milestone guides to their CDMA Milestone. Let's reduce the amount of phone bricking =)

Not sure if there are enough ROMs posted to warrant a whole new forum for each. What might be easier, if I implement a requirement for all Devs who post a ROM to indicate either [GSM] or [CDMA] in the thread title.
Which Roms are CDMA? Are there many?

Every CDMA Droid ROM is a potential CDMA Milestone ROM. The hardware is identical other than the fact that they should avoid flashing a Verizon radio. For example, Cellular South Milestone users are able to flash Clockwork Mod, Bugless Beast and Cyanogen, which were all compiled for the Droid. So what I'm saying is we need to point those users to the subforum that is presently labelled Droid, because that's where they will find the compatible development information. It's pointless for them to read information about the GSM Milestone.
Basically it's a Droid with a "Milestone" label on it, just like how the Inspire 4G is a renamed Desire HD, and the "G2 Touch" is a GSM Hero and not a Vision. Posts regarding the CDMA Milestone should be in the Droid forum. Anyone else agree with me here?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

I agree with the forum renaming if they are essentially the same device, but simply need a different radio. No need for separate forums as the difference is no greater than European vs North American GSM Milestones

Sworkhard said:
I agree with the forum renaming if they are essentially the same device, but simply need a different radio. No need for separate forums as the difference is no greater than European vs North American GSM Milestones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, my understanding is: The radio image of Verizon Droid ROMs contains a lock that prevents you from switching the phone's settings to any carrier but Verizon. The rest of the ROM is completely compatible though - ROMs that were written by devs who have never even heard of a CDMA Milestone are fully functional on that phone.
And it seems that just about every regional CDMA carrier has released it now - and with only Android 2.1, to boot - so there are lots of people looking for answers on this forum.

Would making those CDMA rom's be easier if all the devs had the APN's from those carriers? And I agree with the name change.
Sent from the Milestone

I second that!
I totally agree.new title! .. and I was going to ask.*.Developers*...Is there a way you can leave the Apns blank for us CMDA milestones?? Maybe that would be easier than suppling a bunch of different roms? Just and idea.. Ive had trouble replacing the verizon ones..im sure a few others have as well.

I think if you've flashed the Verizon radio, it locks down the APN settings.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

That's what it sounds like to me too.
Tappin' and a Talkin' from my Milestone

But is not the same Milestone CDMA Than DROID?
Diferent is Milestone from Droid
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk

Ifiuse said:
But is not the same Milestone CDMA Than DROID?
Diferent is Milestone from Droid
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not running any Verizon firmware. Doesn't have built in VZW Apps! Its bone stock OS.
Tappin' and a Talkin' from my Milestone

Ifiuse said:
But is not the same Milestone CDMA Than DROID?
Diferent is Milestone from Droid
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CDMA Milestone = Droid, same hardware down to the last detail.
GSM Milestone is a separate category.
Owners of a CDMA Milestone should have a clear indication to proceed directly to the CDMA/Droid section, not the GSM Milestone section.

Ok, so can someone clear up what exactly is the same and whats different?
From what I can understand, it would be good enough to put a [TAG] in the title like [CDMA] or [GMS], or whatever else is different?

the_scotsman said:
Ok, so can someone clear up what exactly is the same and whats different?
From what I can understand, it would be good enough to put a [TAG] in the title like [CDMA] or [GMS], or whatever else is different?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No no no. What you're suggesting still involves grouping CDMA Milestone users into the same dev forum as GSM Milestone users. This simply makes no sense. There are currently two dev subforums already, and the CDMA Milestone owners just need to know which one to go to.
What is the same and what is different?
GSM Milestone = Milestone A853 has one set of guts inside, a GSM/HSPA radio, a SIM card holder, and a locked bootloader.
CDMA Milestone = Milestone A854 = Verizon CDMA Droid A855 has a distinct set of guts inside, a CDMA radio, no SIM holder, and an unlocked bootloader. The guts of A854 are the same as A855, and the ROMs are interchangeable except for certain carrier locks.
ROMs for GSM A853 are completely incompatible with the CDMA A854/855 and vice versa.
"Milestone" is just a name - ignore the name, focus on the guts.
Let's take an analogy:
GSM Milestone = Green pepper
CDMA Milestone = Green apple
CDMA Verizon Droid = Red apple
I am suggesting that recipes (ROMs) for the apples should go in one dev subforum; and that recipes for the peppers should go in another. Recipes for red apples work with green apples and vice-versa, so this makes a lot of sense.
You are suggesting that recipes for green peppers and green apples should go into the same forum entitled "green" because they're both green, and then posters can mark the recipes as [pepper] or [apple] accordingly. And then for some reason the red apples get their own forum.
Let's turn the tag idea on the side. How about this:
1) CDMA Milestone/Droid Android Development
Posts that are more specific to the CDMA Milestone are tagged [Milestone]
Posts that are more specific to Verizon are tagged [Droid]
2) GSM Milestone Android Development
No tags needed - the CDMA Milestone users will not stumble into this forum because it's useless to them!

Thanks for clearing that up.
So we have:
GSM Milestone
CDMA Milestone
CDMA Verizon Droid
I still think the best option would be to keep the current structure, and just add a [GSM] or [CDMA] tag in each title of all Milestone threads.
I can see what you're saying in your analogy, but that will go against what users would expect...that would have 2 different "devices based on name" in one dev forum, which clearly wouldn't work.
I'll ask for input from svetius (the User Experience Admin), see what he thinks, as he's the one who looks after the forum structure.

If CDMA Milestone threads are shoved into the GSM Milestone forum, it'll produce a lot more needless duplication and confusion than if they're directed to the Droid forum.
The development forums should be based around grouping together phones with the same hardware that have compatible ROMs. Look at the mess that came out of naming the Galaxy S forums based on the name of the American phones... it leaves Canadian users confused due to the way the names don't match up.
Bell Vibrant = international i9000 with different frequencies
Telus Fascinate = T-Mobile Vibrant with different frequencies
No Canadian equivalent = Verizon Fascinate
The dev forums for those phones would be cleaner and less redundant if they were grouped by hardware rather than name. Instead you get duplicate ROMs being posted across multiple dev forums with tags to remind you that the post is about an HSPA phone with the coincidental same name as a more popular incompatible CDMA model...
So yeah. Let's set a better precedent here.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

cmstlist said:
If CDMA Milestone threads are shoved into the GSM Milestone forum, it'll produce a lot more needless duplication and confusion than if they're directed to the Droid forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I must be missing something then...where are the CDMA Milestone threads at the moment?

the_scotsman said:
I think I must be missing something then...where are the CDMA Milestone threads at the moment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, some CDMA Milestone users have found themselves posting in Milestone threads after trying to apply GSM Milestone instructions or in order to ask if these instructions will work on their phone - unsuccessfully of course:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10528179&postcount=78
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10356536&highlight=cdma#post10356536
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10097356&highlight=cdma#post10097356
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9604296&postcount=135
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7926606&postcount=24
In many cases I was the one to tell these users "Your phone may be called a Milestone but it's actually a Droid. Go to that forum to help."
And the ones who heeded that advice or managed to figure it out for themselves, posted in the Droid forum:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=912490&highlight=milestone
On other sites some of these threads end up in Droid subforums:
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/hacking-help/81918-cdma-milestone-a854.html
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/hacking-help/112465-2-2-milestone-a854-real.html
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-hacks/95007-cellular-south-milestone-help-please.html
http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/10813-please-help-me/
and the Droid owners are quite helpful in providing advice since they know the hardware already.
http://androidforums.com/motorola-droid/182926-moto-droid-1-identical-milestone.html
...and some of these threads end up in Milestone subforums:
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/motorola-milestone/92415-stock-restore-milestone-a854.html
http://androidforums.com/milestone-all-things-root/181185-can-cellular-south-milestone-rooted.html
http://androidforums.com/motorola-milestone/191489-cdma-milestone.html (in this thread everyone gives *incorrect advice* suggesting the phone would have a locked bootloader)

[Q] Compiling Roms for Nexus GSM or CDMA radios

I happen to have one of the Nexus One developer phones with a CDMA radio. The software version is 2.1.1. I've tried updating the phone with new builds for the the standard Nexus GSM phone but it kills the radio (no signal and GPS) but otherwise the phone works (ends up being a Nexus Touch). So it seems that any software build has calls for a specific radio type and this phone will forever be on 2.1.1?

You need to get an updated radio build. The problem is - I'm not sure that the normal radio can fit your chip.

Thanks for the suggestion.
I'll have to do some more digging into this phone to determine the radio and then look for a phone with the same radio. Although Android 2.1.1 isn't all that bad and the phone works well.
No further development occurred on this Nexus Verizon phone after the plug was pulled in March 2010.

Wait. You have a Verizon nexus one?
Can you share some pics and details????
Too cool.

DownloaderZ said:
Wait. You have a Verizon nexus one?
Can you share some pics and details????
Too cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything's the same except the radio.

They sold this as a dev phone?

what25 said:
They sold this as a dev phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, never sold. I was told that a few phones were produced with the CDMA radio for development testing on Verizon's network for any issues with general and 3G operation. They were not supported by Verizon. The Google Android hardware team provided testing and support until 4/2010.
I've just flashed the 2.3.3 OTA release on this phone and again it killed the radio but everything else works. I'll just use it on wifi since I've updated from my Eris to a Droid X.

Did you use it as a phone on Verizon? Don't you have to do the entire activate the phone thing with them due to cdma?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

albundy2010 said:
Did you use it as a phone on Verizon? Don't you have to do the entire activate the phone thing with them due to cdma?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the phone was activated on my existing plan for awhile. Othewise the "Verizon Wireless" on the lock screen doesn't show up and you get nagged to activate each time you boot the phone.
I may ask the same original question of the thread on the developer's forum. It may have been better suited for that forum.

What about the radio from an Incredible? The N1 and Incredible are pretty similar... not sure man, I didn't even realize there was a CDMA N1 in existence.

i guess there is now way you can extract the radio image from your original ROM, then upgrade to gingerbread, then try and flash that radio image on top of gingerbread radio?
(maybe wont work if version numbers go backwards...?)

One of the pre-requisites for going to 2.2 and higher was an upgraded radio...
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Yeah look at the Droid incredible radio's, being that's what became of the failed Verizon version?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

RogerPodacter said:
i guess there is now way you can extract the radio image from your original ROM, then upgrade to gingerbread, then try and flash that radio image on top of gingerbread radio?
For some reason, when I do an rom upgrade from a normal nexus gsm build, it doesn't write over the radio. The CDMA radio is still displayed on the Phone Info but zero bars of signal 0dbm 0asu readings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

shoryken said:
Yeah look at the Droid incredible radio's, being that's what became of the failed Verizon version?
My guess would be the Incredible too. There is the chance that if I flash the radio with an image that isn't compatible with the hboot, then the phone will be bricked. I did that with a G1. Since this phone has no published specs that I can use to compare the actual radio device against another phone, I'm hesitant to take the chance since 2.1.1 isn't all that bad. Even if I knew the chipset, I wonder if I would go for it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

You could always try and get some info from HTC. Can't hurt to ask them about the phone.

The chipset is QSD8650. I believe that's the same as Incredible. You can look in the Incredible forum and compare their radio build versions with yours - if they have the same structure, I guess you'll need to make some sort of a mix between Nexus HW and Incredible's Baseband drivers. I'm sure it's possible, it's just very hard without having the source.

Jack_R1 said:
The chipset is QSD8650. I believe that's the same as Incredible. You can look in the Incredible forum and compare their radio build versions with yours - if they have the same structure, I guess you'll need to make some sort of a mix between Nexus HW and Incredible's Baseband drivers. I'm sure it's possible, it's just very hard without having the source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume you can tell by one of the pictures I posted?...
My radio is 1.00.02.03.24 Hboot is the same for Nexus GSM, 0.35.0017 with MicroP 0b15. Looks pretty much the same as a GSM except for the phone.
Droid Incredible radio seems to be something like 2.15.00.nn.nn. Eeee, I'm scared to try it.
Oh well, thanks all for the comments and suggestions so far. Looks like 2.1.1 is it for this phone...
glenk

Radio update success
Bit the bullet and tried the radio.img from a EVO, which I found on XDA-developer forum to work with the Droid Incredible. Well, the phone still works, GPS and camera work.
Unfortunately, when I install a GSM build, the radio 2.15.00 still remains but the same problem with 0dbm signal remains. Even if reinstall the radio.img after the build, no success.
Maybe I should offer this radio as a prize for building a Nexus One GB image that works with an EVO radio image...
Got a Droid X as my phone now...

Wow you actually attempted to flash a new radio, and one from a different device?! And it actually works? You have some guts, nice work. This is actually good info for future android phones, now we know what might be possible.
Flashing radio is by far highest risk of bricking.

[Q] silly newbynish

soo heres my newby question. what exactly is a modem? ive never heard of them until i came to the captivate
also,i have been creating alot of new threads,(i know i know) im new here to xda so im still trying to figure my way around this wollyworld of development so if any of my questions have been answered,please feel free to be rude (sarcasm) and tell me google is my friend,or search the forums lol

Modem=radio

newter55 said:
Modem=radio
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that was the best short answer ever lol,so if i was to flash through the different modems,would it possible for my simple mobile data connection to get stronger?

brd912 said:
soo heres my newby question. what exactly is a modem? ive never heard of them until i came to the captivate
also,i have been creating alot of new threads,(i know i know) im new here to xda so im still trying to figure my way around this wollyworld of development so if any of my questions have been answered,please feel free to be rude (sarcasm) and tell me google is my friend,or search the forums lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not modem, "modem.bin" it is the file that controls the radios. the reason for changing it is either for frequency settings for your location. north america other than t-mobile uses 1900 and 850mhz some countries like austrailia and new zeland use the same. europe uses 900mhz instead of 850 and many of the roms ported to out phone have the european modes. for that reason we use the canadian bell and telus modem.bins for the i9000 roms.
also the captivate modem.bin versions dont have hsupa conectivity and the captivate roms are not compatable with i9000 modems, the bluetooth calling doesn't work in that combination. it is also recomended to match the kernel to the modem but i find that the chinese captivate i9088 modem and the telus t959d modem work better for me than any i9000 modem available.

Dani897 said:
not modem, "modem.bin" it is the file that controls the radios. the reason for changing it is either for frequency settings for your location. north america other than t-mobile uses 1900 and 850mhz some countries like austrailia and new zeland use the same. europe uses 900mhz instead of 850 and many of the roms ported to out phone have the european modes. for that reason we use the canadian bell and telus modem.bins for the i9000 roms.
also the captivate modem.bin versions dont have hsupa conectivity and the captivate roms are not compatable with i9000 modems, the bluetooth calling doesn't work in that combination. it is also recomended to match the kernel to the modem but i find that the chinese captivate i9088 modem and the telus t959d modem work better for me than any i9000 modem available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does that mean no way no how,captivate running 3g on t mobile service?

[Q] Modems how do they work?

so i have a captivate, i love it. however my carrier has limited service where i live. i have seen people say they get better download and upload speed with different modems and i myself have flashed different modems and used speedtest app to see these differences. my question(s) are really as follows
can a modem give you better reception?
is it possible to make your antenna in your phone work harder to pick up better signal strength?
in general is there a way i can learn how modems work?
thanks smart peeps!
Gorship

bump
bump for hope.

Gorship said:
so i have a captivate, i love it. however my carrier has limited service where i live. i have seen people say they get better download and upload speed with different modems and i myself have flashed different modems and used speedtest app to see these differences. my question(s) are really as follows
can a modem give you better reception?
is it possible to make your antenna in your phone work harder to pick up better signal strength?
in general is there a way i can learn how modems work?
thanks smart peeps!
Gorship
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, a modem us the binary file that runs the antenna. So if we were able to control and edit the binary (which we can't) you could potentially make the antenna "work harder".
so a modem works by controlling, software wise, the frequencies the antenna uses. For example, I9000 modems tell the antenna to also pick up hsupa, and that is why I9000 based roms have faster data. The modem needs to also be compatible with the kernel so it can run properly. This is why e can't use modems like JK4 on captivate based Roms.
flashing a modem can increase signal. It is all about where you are though. JK4, which is a great modem in Boston, might not be a great modem in San Francisco, or Detroit.
there is a sticky thread in the development section for this with a website that will help you pick out a new modem. Make sure it is compatible with your kernel first.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

There is not an easy answer to this (I don't think) but here is an interesting read that may be of some help (or at least an interesting read )...
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Linux.Wireless.modem.html

4-2ndtwin said:
There is not an easy answer to this (I don't think) but here is an interesting read that may be of some help (or at least an interesting read )...
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Linux.Wireless.modem.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as detailed as it can get..thanks for the read...

viny2cool said:
as detailed as it can get..thanks for the read...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True... Detailed.. However, mostly irrelevant..
When you flash a modem, you're flashing an operating system for the communications chip. It's an entire stand-alone operating system designed to minimalistically receive and transmit data. The communications chip is capable of running an entire device. This is evidant when you examine the binary. It contains keyboard, mouse and display drivers.
When the Captivate was released, it was released as a 3G device, not H, so its communications chip was configured to work as a 3G modem. This was likely a marketing decision as "3G" was all the rave at the time.
A modem won't improve your reception unless your old modem was configured incorrectly
As far as signal strength, it won't improve unless your old modem was configured incorrectly.
There are several tweaks which are applied in each version of modem firmware for different devices. Unfortunately, the communications chip is locked down/Closed-source Qualcrap.. So, we will never fully understand what configurations are available, nor can we do anything other than test and see which one works more effectively.

hey thank you so much guys, this is really interesting, sadly a little depressing but interesting. i have one last question then, since i am running my i897 captivate... with the ICS rom, does this mean i should use i9000 or i897 modems? i heard that i9000 modems were just better then i897 so i am using them... but if the above is true, i shoud be using i897 to get proper configuration of my device.
you guys are all awesome and ill be mashing the thanks button!
<3 Gorship

U have to use the specific modems for ICS... See here... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16843698&postcount=1
And more specifically...See this page... http://soggycashew.weebly.com/cm7miui--ics-modems.html

yea im flashing a few of the ics i897 vs the i9000 i was using... still though... i have full bars with my old blackberry bold 9000 compared to my cappy which has 1 or 2... i dont understand why.

[Q] Q&A- Different radio versions general question

I'm by no means an expert, but I have rooted/flashed ROMs on different phones the past few years. This has been my first time running into a phone where the ROMs are picky on which bootloader or radios are installed beforehand. The bootloader/bootstack I understand , but what about radios? Aside from different ROMs requiring certain radio versions, what's the real difference between 12b and 27a? Better signal from towers? Better Lte connectivity?

+1 bump as it would be interesting if someone would be willing to clarify the OP question.
Sent from my LG-VS980