For those of you who have the HD2 with the extended battery, I know how important it is to find a case that will fit with the extended battery attached. For the fact that the HD2 is a very unique powerful phone along with the vast amount of operating systems that this phone can support, a protected case is priority! After much research, I have finally found the case that will fit with the extended battery without any modifications whatsoever! It is the Seidio Convert Combo Case for the HTC Evo 4G!! Here's the link:
http://www.seidioonline.com/htc-evo-4g-convert-case-holster-black-p/bd3-hkr4hev4.htm
Not only that this case does an excellent job at protecting the phone, but thanks to the excellent pre-cutouts, you still have access to the camera, speaker, light, USB port and headphone jack! The only disadvantage is that you don't access to the kickstand. If you can deal with that, this case is for you! Here are some pictures I've taken with my phone and new case.
Complete Assembly
My phone with extended battery
Ditching the slim hard case
Putting the phone in the silicone skin
Phone with silicone skin
Phone with silicone skin and skeleton
Pre-cutouts
This case should fit all HD2's without any problems. If you have the HD2 with the extended battery, I highly recommend that you get this case to protect your investment!! It will be the best $50.00 you will spend! I hope this helps!
http://www.jr.com/powerskin/pe/PSK_AP1502HD7/
What about the powerskin? It claims to fit the hd2
I did the research on this case. It may fit, but it will cover up the camera, speaker, light, USB port and headphone jack. For me, I wanted an extended battery as well as a protective case that gives the ability to access all the ports and jacks on the phone. That's why I chose the case I have now.
Another thing to consider: That power skin has a battery with 1500mAh. The extended battery has 2300mAh. To me, that's more juice that I get to have with the extended battery.
awesome, can you tell me exactly which battery to buy. And I will also buy that case. Do I have to apply a screen protector my self, or is it like the otterbox defender case that comes with one already installed?
Yes, you will have to apply a screen protector yourself. Here are my recommendations:
Extended battery: http://gorillagadgets.com/htc-hd2-e...k-plate.html?gclid=CNC7kdHAgKwCFQNthwodoldVlA
Screen protector: http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield...es-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php
You may be able to find the screen protector cheaper on eBay or Amazon.
Lavell7298 said:
Yes, you will have to apply a screen protector yourself. Here are my recommendations:
Extended battery: http://gorillagadgets.com/htc-hd2-e...k-plate.html?gclid=CNC7kdHAgKwCFQNthwodoldVlA
Screen protector: http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield...es-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php
You may be able to find the screen protector cheaper on eBay or Amazon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very nice finding, thanks, im using powerskin and its working flawlwssly..
try to look on ebay for a screen protector, there You can find it really cheap and it fits perfectly
you have no idea how long I've been looking for this: AMAZING!!! so just out of curiosity do you have the problem with the extender battery that it doesn't show the full capacity and you have to pull the battery and put it back in? (i'm running android)
is this right? http://www.amazon.com/Seidio-CONVERT-Combo-HTC-Black/dp/B003SNIRCO ??
materoprodutions said:
you have no idea how long I've been looking for this: AMAZING!!! so just out of curiosity do you have the problem with the extender battery that it doesn't show the full capacity and you have to pull the battery and put it back in? (i'm running android)
is this right? http://www.amazon.com/Seidio-CONVERT-Combo-HTC-Black/dp/B003SNIRCO ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is the correct case. It's good to see that Amazon has the case for cheaper. I'm currently running Coredroid v1.7 on my HD2. I don't have any problems with the extended battery not showing full capacity.
very nice , i like it
so are you not using the hard case part of it just the loose fitting rubber with the outer shell? just curious if you are using the hard part of the case as well.
I bought this official HTC Battery and gel case from eBay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-H..._MobilePhonesCasesPouches&hash=item4158991c90
What absolute crap!
The battery is fine but that gel case has a pointless bulky stylus attachment on the side which adds a whole cm to the width. The phone now looks like something the Fedex guy carries!
I just ended up taking the extended back cover off and stretching a standard gel case over the battery.
theshamrockking said:
so are you not using the hard case part of it just the loose fitting rubber with the outer shell? just curious if you are using the hard part of the case as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. I'm not using the hard case. It won't fit if you have the extended battery attached. I tossed my hard case and used only the rubber and the outer shell.
materoprodutions said:
you have no idea how long I've been looking for this: AMAZING!!! so just out of curiosity do you have the problem with the extender battery that it doesn't show the full capacity and you have to pull the battery and put it back in? (i'm running android)
is this right? http://www.amazon.com/Seidio-CONVERT-Combo-HTC-Black/dp/B003SNIRCO ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im facing the same problem and its very annoying! i just got the extended battery and i dont even know the full capacity of my battery!
got any tips?
damnshah said:
Im facing the same problem and its very annoying! i just got the extended battery and i dont even know the full capacity of my battery!
got any tips?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What ROM are you using? I ask because most of the custom ROMs here don't have extended battery support. The ROM listed in my signature for the HD2 is one of a very few that does. Here's the thread where I got the ROM from.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=908528
Lavell7298 said:
What ROM are you using? I ask because most of the custom ROMs here don't have extended battery support. The ROM listed in my signature for the HD2 is one of a very few that does. Here's the thread where I got the ROM from.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=908528
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im on the latest version of hyperdroid and i read up and accordingly there is extended battery support!
damnshah said:
Im on the latest version of hyperdroid and i read up and accordingly there is extended battery support!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to the Tytung_R14 kernel list of features, the only extended battery that is supported by this kernel is the official HTC extended battery (2300mAh). This is what the battery looks like.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2300mAh...595309?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item2311ce68ed
Scroll down so that you can see actual pictures of the battery. If you do not have this official extended battery, then your ROM won't support it.
Lavell7298 said:
According to the Tytung_R14 kernel list of features, the only extended battery that is supported by this kernel is the official HTC extended battery (2300mAh). This is what the battery looks like.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2300mAh...595309?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item2311ce68ed
Scroll down so that you can see actual pictures of the battery. If you do not have this official extended battery, then your ROM won't support it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, i just came across the list as well! ah well...thank you very much for the effort, i really appreciate it... unfortunately, my battery isnt original but it seems to hold a better charge than the original slim one...any ideas on how to test the full capacity of the battery? im thinking multimeter!
Official Extended Battery for HD2
I'm getting requests to provide links to the official extended battery for the HD2. This battery is getting very difficult to find. It's recommended to use Amazon or Ebay to find this battery. Here is a link from both vendors. Keep in mind that these vendors can change their links at anytime, making the ones listed here outdated.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/HTC-HTCBPE400-HD2-Extended-Battery/dp/B003KZS7DE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-HTC...Accessories&hash=item5ae4a2bf19#ht_757wt_1163
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2300mAh...ccessories&hash=item2311ce68ed#ht_5136wt_1163
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2300mAh...ccessories&hash=item2c5ce5a1db#ht_5457wt_1163
Lavell7298 said:
I'm get requests to provide links to the official extended battery for the HD2. This battery is getting very difficult to find. It's recommended to use Amazon or Ebay to find this battery. Here is a link from both vendors. Keep in mind that these vendors can change their links at anytime, making the ones listed here outdated.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/HTC-HTCBPE400-HD2-Extended-Battery/dp/B003KZS7DE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-HTC...Accessories&hash=item5ae4a2bf19#ht_757wt_1163
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
damn a 60 dollar battery + 40 dollar case? i cant afford that much for phone accessories
Related
http://www.talkietech.com/htcto19hicab.html
I found this extended battery for the vogue. Any of you use this? If so how does it compare to the original standard battery?
that battery just showed up on the "battery scene"... it should provide more capacity based on mAh. i'm using Seidio's 2000 mAH battery it provides enough power to get me 1.5 days with normal usage.
Yeah I have that battery and anything is better than the one that comes with it. It lasts a lot longer as you would probably expect from a bigger battery. If you do get that battery it won't fit in your case anymore and the best case I found that fits it perfect by the way is this one http://swissmobility.swissmobilitystore.com/store/product/swissmobility_commander. It fits it perfect after a day of breaking it in. It is also cheaper here at this site http://www.buywirelessnow.com/smartwireless/buy/accessories/cat/615/accessory/298685 which includes the cover and free shipping.
secbrad said:
Yeah I have that battery and anything is better than the one that comes with it. It lasts a lot longer as you would probably expect from a bigger battery. If you do get that battery it won't fit in your case anymore and the best case I found that fits it perfect by the way is this one http://swissmobility.swissmobilitystore.com/store/product/swissmobility_commander. It fits it perfect after a day of breaking it in. It is also cheaper here at this site http://www.buywirelessnow.com/smartwireless/buy/accessories/cat/615/accessory/298685 which includes the cover and free shipping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mind sharing pictures of what it looks like installed? Also do you know if any of the existing extended batteries would fit using the OEM extended battery door?
thanks,
-CC
Here are a few pictures. As far as other batteries fitting inside like the 2000 from seidio it probably will because they claim it will still fit in the original holster with the back you can get with it and with this HTC back it won't fit inside the original holster. This is all an assumption.
thanks for the pictures... if you have it, i'd like to see a side-shot of the phone with battery cover (similar to 3rd from left but with cover) and a bottom-shot of the phone with battery cover (looking from bottom). having an OEM cover vs. the tight Seidio cover is something i'm thinking about (not to mention having another backup battery). thx
Yo, here are the pictures you requested.
secbrad said:
Yo, here are the pictures you requested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you sir...
Guess I can't get the 2000mah battery then
What else you guys recommend ?
I've been thinking of getting the Treo 700wx
This is the 1500mah battery which fits with the original cover..
http://www.seidioonline.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=879
too expensive though, there's tons of them on ebay cheaper
Will a Extended Battery Door for a Capacity 1900 mAh battery fit a 2000mah battery?
i have the extented door for the OEM 1900 mAh battery and it easily accomodates seidio's 2000 mAh battery. in fact, the 1900 mAh battery is taller than seidio's 2000 mAh battery.
Thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to the purchasing the door and the extended battery.
how much room is left in between the battery and the cover would you say? I want to put an led in the case for a non-flash/light. the mugen-power full case looks like it would work, but I don't want to spend $75 on a 3 year old phones battery.
Hey, guys this battery is one of the newer ones found in Ebay. I took a stab and went for it as it was only 10 bucks. As you can see in the video this Quality of the construction is very good for a plastic cover. The cover and the device is flush on the sides, which is is perfect for me and ITS THINNER THAN OTHER ONES THAT I HAVE SEEN ON XDA. KICKstand is great too.
Take a look at the video.(incomplete due to the 256mb SDHC card )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPQ3zZLH-R4
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U66JxD75bWk
Performance: Still testing the battery. Not sure how to, but I will recharge the battery with the device shut off and open up android to see how good the battery actually is. Seems like its using only the first half of the battery(16hrs with 80% left - I was listening to music, texing my cuz who was at bestbuy line for 55" LED Samsung, while I was at sears waiting in line till 1am . My cuz got the tv for 1500 so ) But I will try to recalibrate it.
The interesting thing was, when i first tested it, it was with mdjeejay 2.3 clean with NON EXTENDED Kernel. So, Im not sure whats going on there. (MAY BE ITS A FAKE)
But I kinda need help about testing the battery. Cause Im not really sure how to recalibrate it.
10.99+1.99
LINK: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=250721652435&si=JMrYADEdlnpBwpyJ35JhNcj6PUM%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT
UPDATE: This battery works with any kernal available, whether or not the kernel supports extended battery does not seem to matter.
May i have link to it?
Thanks
Link added.
I have both the official and this 2600mah/2400mah (advertised elsewhere) with kickstand. The kickstand will fall apart after a short time... The hinges that keep them in place are very weak. Mine broke in less than a week.
The battery life is very good and doesn't add much thickness to the phone. I would say the total thickness is about 15mm compared to 11mm of the phone without the extended battery. I do prefer this battery in some sense to the official one with kickstand as it is quite a bit thinner (guess about 18mm) however HTC OEM has a "real" kickstand...
ez2remember said:
I have both the official and this 2600mah/2400mah (advertised elsewhere) with kickstand. The kickstand will fall apart after a short time... The hinges that keep them in place are very weak. Mine broke in less than a week.
The battery life is very good and doesn't add much thickness to the phone. I would say the total thickness is about 15mm compared to 11mm of the phone without the extended battery. I do prefer this battery in some sense to the official one with kickstand as it is quite a bit thinner (guess about 18mm) however HTC OEM has a "real" kickstand...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I see a picture of the broken kickstand?
ez2remember said:
I have both the official and this 2600mah/2400mah (advertised elsewhere) with kickstand. The kickstand will fall apart after a short time... The hinges that keep them in place are very weak. Mine broke in less than a week.
The battery life is very good and doesn't add much thickness to the phone. I would say the total thickness is about 15mm compared to 11mm of the phone without the extended battery. I do prefer this battery in some sense to the official one with kickstand as it is quite a bit thinner (guess about 18mm) however HTC OEM has a "real" kickstand...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the HTC extended battery... Can these extended batteries be used with the HTC extended battery case??? I just need another extended battery... Want to use my HTC case and kickstand????
i doubt if you can buy just the battery.
Tech Savy said:
I have the HTC extended battery... Can these extended batteries be used with the HTC extended battery case??? I just need another extended battery... Want to use my HTC case and kickstand????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I can use the HTC case with these 3rd party batteries but not vice versa as the HTC extended battery is thicker.
Another problem and mentioned on other threads the battery acts like 2 batteries. The controller is el-cheapo. Once you run out of juice, remove the battery and re-insert then you get another 50-60%+
but i have heard or read somewhere that you could calibrate the battery somehow to make android show the whole battery percentage. Any idea how?
Does anyone have the extended batter and also the docking station. If so does the d3 with extended battery installed fit in the docking station?
androidphan88 said:
Does anyone have the extended batter and also the docking station. If so does the d3 with extended battery installed fit in the docking station?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. The extended battery + cover only adds like 1mm of thickness to the Droid 3.
which extended battery and from where??
thanks
It's sold by verizon wireless and is a motorola original extended battery:
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/accessory?&action=accessoryDetails&accessoryId=47628
dilwaala said:
It's sold by verizon wireless and is a motorola original extended battery:
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/accessory?&action=accessoryDetails&accessoryId=47628
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, that's the one I have. Works out great.
I have both and it works fine.
Yep, extended battery from Verizon/Moto fits quite well in the dock.
Those blue and purple snap on cases though? Not so much. The screen will barely slide and basically gets stuck if you have the extended battery. Doesn't matter though, my gf thought I might want one but turns out we gotta take it back since it doesn't fit.
Yes - and it also fits on the car dock.
People are using the the extended battery cover?
Mine fit just fine with the factory cover... it makes me wonder why they didn't just ship these phones with an extended battery in the first place.
LaTropa64 said:
People are using the the extended battery cover?
Mine fit just fine with the factory cover... it makes me wonder why they didn't just ship these phones with an extended battery in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I live in a very hot area. I use the cover just so the battery has room to expand from the heat.
Is it possible to order these outside USA?
I'd like to get the extended battery/cover, but being in Australia could be a problem...
You could consider a service like Borderlinx.
Okay, i'll consider it. Thank you.
I have the extended battery, the verizon case/holster, and the dock. While the verizon case DOES support the extended battery, its very difficult to fit the phone on the dock (with the insert removed) while in the verizon case with the extended battery. It says right on the box for the case that its compatible with the dock and the ext. battery but it took me several minutes to get it to fit, and even then, it felt really tight like it didn't want to sit properly in the cradle. This pisses me off.
I have both and it works. I will say that the docking station is a bit of a let down compared to the original docking station I used with the Droid1 and 2.
It's not weighted.
The phone doesn't slide in/out of it nearly as easily as the Droid 1 / 2 setup.
The USB port is for charging only, it's not a passthrough if connected to a computer.
Wouldn't buy it again.
Anyone have a feel for like the % improvement in average battery life with the extended battery?
djthread said:
Anyone have a feel for like the % improvement in average battery life with the extended battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I consider myself a heavy user and I went from my phone dying 1/3 of the day to the phone lasting all day. I'd say a good investment.
So factory cover is ok to use? If order, no need for new cover?
Oh i see. I need to do that as well.
I found this from Amazon,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NEJMKW
2800mAh with back door
http://www.otterbox.com/DROID-3-by-..._color=20&start=1&cgid=motorola-droid-3-cases
It's been out for weeks
My apologies, I meant out as available to order directly from otterbox.com.
The product was previously shown as "Coming Soon" from their site.
Just got my confirmation email from Otterbox last night 8)
Wonder if it will be too bulky for an already semi bulky phone?
somemadcaaant said:
Just got my confirmation email from Otterbox last night 8)
Wonder if it will be too bulky for an already semi bulky phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it work with the car or media dock?
Sorry mate not sure, i wont get the dock, car mount or otterbox case untill a reliable source in Aus gets these for me which will be months away.
The Dock has a removable base that the phone sits in so I would probably think it should fit, I remember some1 else having some snap on cover for the D3 which worked in the Media Dock. Not sure about the car dock tho.
-smc
Does anybody know if the OtterBox can be used with the extended battery? Also, does it make the phone REALLY bulky? How's the top row of the keyboard?
I was expecting chunkier, but I think I'd still rather use my phone "naked"
mmcgee91 said:
Does anybody know if the OtterBox can be used with the extended battery? Also, does it make the phone REALLY bulky? How's the top row of the keyboard?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the extended battery as well as the otterbox case. both work well. i got tge case pretty cheap on amazon.
jesusishere said:
i have the extended battery as well as the otterbox case. both work well. i got tge case pretty cheap on amazon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got it to fit with the extended battery? I received my Otterbox earlier today and I can't seem to get it.
Just got the Otterbox today and I can confirm it does fit with an extended battery. However the battery, which also came today, is a cheapo 2200mAh from amazon. It a bit bigger than the standard not sure if its the same size as the extended. I use it with the standard back and is not bulging out. Hopefully this is an extended and not labeled incorrectly.
[edit] This battery is not getting hot while charging. Its 77 and the standard it usually over 100. Though it may be misreported.
Let me know how the battery does compared to the stock! Mainly if its lasting longer than it or if the cheap batttery isn't worth the money.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
geigerm said:
Let me know how the battery does compared to the stock! Mainly if its lasting longer than it or if the cheap batttery isn't worth the money.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the battery's not likely 2200mAh. It gets about the same life as the stock 1500. Still worth the 5 bucks I paid. It's GTMax brand if anyone's interested.
I'm kind of mad I bought the shell/holster they offered, thing's great. But, this looks badass, lol.
wootizzle said:
I'm kind of mad I bought the shell/holster they offered, thing's great. But, this looks badass, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The vzw holster is crap as far as i'm concerned. When I got a replacement for a vibrate motor problem I noticed how the new one was much more sturdy when sliding out the keyboard. The case caused it to come loose. The clip near the back of the front camera is too tall and the screen pulled upwards.
Decided to take off the battery cover and see how it fits in the Otterbox. There's no problems it even feels a bit smaller almost as though there's no case on the back. Even tried dropping it from about a foot to see if the battery or sim or sdcard would fall out, didn't move at all. So there should be no problem with an extended battery. Someone at androidforums cut the battery cover to make the extended battery fit. Doesn't sound like a very good idea but I guess it's another option.
Hmm. I have no issues with the vzw one *knock on wood* and its on my hip all day. I have bumped into a few doors at work directly on it (as well as some stupid people in the metro) its held its ground so far.
eww245 said:
The vzw holster is crap as far as i'm concerned. When I got a replacement for a vibrate motor problem I noticed how the new one was much more sturdy when sliding out the keyboard. The case caused it to come loose. The clip near the back of the front camera is too tall and the screen pulled upwards.
Decided to take off the battery cover and see how it fits in the Otterbox. There's no problems it even feels a bit smaller almost as though there's no case on the back. Even tried dropping it from about a foot to see if the battery or sim or sdcard would fall out, didn't move at all. So there should be no problem with an extended battery. Someone at androidforums cut the battery cover to make the extended battery fit. Doesn't sound like a very good idea but I guess it's another option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App
Nice. Just wish they had it in
The OtterBox case can be found on amazon for around $25 shipped, it's well worth it. Best case I ever had for a phone. I got it to work with the Motorola extended battery, I just modified the stock battery cover with a dremel and alot of patience.
How much was actually 'shaved'? Did it go through the cover all the way and expose the insides at all?
afturburn said:
How much was actually 'shaved'? Did it go through the cover all the way and expose the insides at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah almost the whole battery is exposed, but the inside of the otter box is silicon and it seal everything up and holds it tight. The original battery cover sacrificed his life so that I could use my extended battery. I still have the extended battery cover if I ever choose to take off the ottterbox. There's a thread at droidforums.net that I posted pics and all in.
i have a droid 3, and to use an extended battery like that (goo.gl/6RJw1) i need to have a special case or i can just put it instead of the stock battery?
giovannipaquier said:
i have a droid 3, and to use an extended battery like that (goo.gl/6RJw1) i need to have a special case or i can just put it instead of the stock battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Motorola official extended battery is physically thicker, and normally requires a special door -- and this extra door makes it not fit most cases, or into the car or multimedia dock very well.
That said, there is a very simple solution I have been using for ~13 months... I didn't use the modified door. I put the battery in, and I put my case on, without the battery door. The extra thickness of the battery itself is the same thickness as the door adds, so the official hardbody Motorola case fits perfectly. I have *never* had a problem with the battery falling out or losing contact. As a plus, the multimedia dock comes with a removable insert to accommodate the official hardbody case -- and since the case has a flat back, the car dock has no issues, either.
giovannipaquier said:
i have a droid 3, and to use an extended battery like that (goo.gl/6RJw1) i need to have a special case or i can just put it instead of the stock battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Anker - external battery. If I change the phone, anker remains
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2
Anyone ever use one of those 2600mAh extended batteries that sell for about $6 on ebay??
I want to get an extended battery but I hate how it makes the phone loon and that hump it gives it,just feels weird.Those 3500mAh batteries wont work for me,so I was thinking maybe the 2600mAh versions would be ok...
PassingThruLife said:
Anyone ever use one of those 2600mAh extended batteries that sell for about $6 on ebay??
I want to get an extended battery but I hate how it makes the phone loon and that hump it gives it,just feels weird.Those 3500mAh batteries wont work for me,so I was thinking maybe the 2600mAh versions would be ok...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a 1930mAh BFX6 battery and it only JUST fits. One of the edges can't close 100% so there's a 0.1mm gap. Might differ between droid 3 models, that small of a gap.
But if the battery would be any thicker than the 1930 one it won't fit the stock cover
any extended battery for honor holly suggestion ......thanks in advance