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(remove the spaces, sorry as I'm a new user)
To summarise, a Froyo build (not mentioned which one) has been sent to operators for testing. Guess that would mean a few more months before a build is even released to public. (Right after the announcement for Gingerbread? Ugh.)
---start of rant---
First of all, greetings to all (it's my first post). The Milestone is my first Android phone, and it's a love-hate relationship honestly. I made a mistake not knowing about the locked bootloader (who wouldn't? After all most Android phones don't come with a 2048-bit encrypted bootloader). I believe most Milestone users share the same experience with me, finding out the cruel truth only after purchase.
Why lock? I believe most users have already read the comment from Motorola's CEO, which is to protect users from damaging their phone. (I'll get the source article later.) Seriously? Look at the magic Droid users and developers have churned out.
The Milestone, like the Droid, is a capable phone. Not the best in the market now, but one of the better ones in the same price range.
If Motorola is unable to release updates in time, I personally feel that they should unlock our bootloader, and let the community do the magic. It's after all what people look for when they bought an open-sourced phone.
---end of rant---
I frequent the Milestone development forums (even though I've never left a message simply because I feel that I lack technical knowledge to be commenting on their wonderful works), and love what has been made for Milestone. However, there are limitations definitely, from what I gathered.
I humbly believe that if they unlocked the bootloader, they would change people's views of Motorola worldwide (like when I first got the Milestone, before finding out about the locked bootloader) and in the long run it's definitely beneficial. We're talking about European, Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian, Mexican, Canadian (?) and many more markets here, my dear big M.
Is there any petition already started to appeal to Motorola to unlock our bootloaders? After all, Android is about the power of the community.
Sorry for the long message, I just needed to get this off my mind, and would love to hear about views from the amazing xda community. I may be wrong, I may be biased, but I'm just a plain Milestone user.
Oh, I still love my Milestone anyway.
Thanks. =)
it'll probably never get unlocked, but it still sucks. i love being able to do damn neared anything i want to my Droid.
This is taken from engadget.com
HTC is legendary for its tacit support of the Android ROM cooking community. Motorola... not so much, thanks in large part to the company's policy of locking down the bootloader as a means to prevent unapproved software from running on its Droid handsets. An annoyance recently exacperated by a moderator of Moto's YouTube channel who suggested that customers looking to install custom ROMs should "buy elsewhere." Ouch. The resulting public relations kerfuffle then prompted Motorola to publish a clarification to its bootloader policy on Facebook:
We apologize for the feedback we provided regarding our bootloader policy. The response does not reflect the views of Motorola. We are working closely with our partners to offer a bootloader solution that will enable developers to use our devices as a development platform while still protecting our users' interests. More detailed information will follow as we get closer to availability.
Obviously, we'll have wait for said details to get official before calling this a shift in strategy. It's certainly an improvement over Moto's previous approach of lawyering-up with cease and desist orders. Perhaps Motorola is taking a cue from Microsoft who seems to have recently discovered that it's better to embrace than to annoy a motivated hacking community -- customers who tend to be a company's most dedicated fans and evangelists.
Good news?
Direct Link: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/21/motorola-ready-to-make-sweet-love-to-rom-devs-and-rooters/
its a maybe. maybe they will launch our froyo locked, maybe it'll be open. we never know.
i just read this also. this could be great news or another terrible taunt whih leads to nothing.
im not gonna get my hopes up just yet.
available Q1 of 2046, stay tuned! lol
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
Sounds like a PR stunt to quell the immediate situation before waiting for it to blow over.
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
I dont believe in manufaturer, i believe in XDA dev's..... this a "cold water" not a hope for us.
I hope this isn't just some PR bull and moto actually enables us to load custom kernels.
That press release says nothing about unlocking the bootloader, only that they will help devs which could mean anything!
DummyPLUG said:
available Q1 of 2046, stay tuned! lol
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
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LMFAO!!!
i dnt believe motorolsh!t will do that(unlocking the bootloader)
I so love my new HTC Desire! couldnt stand this situation anymore....! sorry guys...
It is just the usual PR crap which companies like them give when they screw up on the social networking front. The "..buy elsewhere.." was just a such screw up. A Royal one I would say!
They are now trying to calm down the situation by giving us this crap..
I think it's just a excuse about the bad comments in youtube video, nothing more than that.
DummyPLUG said:
available Q1 of 2046, stay tuned!
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2046???
...that seems a little too soon... dont ya think?
Menelkir said:
I think it's just a excuse about the bad comments in youtube video, nothing more than that.
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That seems most likely but perhaps the fallout and bad press from that will push them to do what they should have done long ago, free the bootloader in some form so we can get custom ROMs on it.
Dyonas said:
That seems most likely but perhaps the fallout and bad press from that will push them to do what they should have done long ago, free the bootloader in some form so we can get custom ROMs on it.
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Yes, I really want to see this happening, but I don't have any hope about Motorola opening the bootloader.
If they do, ok, excelent news to the community, to all developers that will make even better ROMs and for all of us that have a Motorola phone. We can see the quality of alternative ROMs for Motorola Milestone today as example. It's obvious that the only limitation is the bootloader, so the quality can be massively improved if we can change and optimize the kernel.
But I think all people here are already tired from Motorola's position about his costumers: Censorship on comments (youtube and motorola forums), censorship on criticism (even the very good ones, Motorola does not seem to care about the opinion of his costumers), cease and desist in community cases like the ROM of Droid X and sites with roms (that its very stupid IMHO)... and the list goes on...
By the way, my only hope is, if that happens and I have not exchanged my phone yet, good.. I'll make good use of it. But honestly? I have now my last phone from Motorola.
Am I missing something? Forgive my ignorance, but what is "locked up" about the bootloader? I'm running CM6 along with the overclocked CM6 kernel, and there are tons of other custom ROMs out for the Droid as it stands. What is restricted by Motorola?
vapor63 said:
Am I missing something? Forgive my ignorance, but what is "locked up" about the bootloader? I'm running CM6 along with the overclocked CM6 kernel, and there are tons of other custom ROMs out for the Droid as it stands. What is restricted by Motorola?
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Milestone users cannot use custom kernels. All the AOSP ROMs still have to use the SAME kernel, supplied by Mot. They lock it to the bootloader. This means problems trying to compile modules and customer kernels and no way to patch bugs.
It is much more work for devs to get stuff done for the milestone than other phone (htc comes to mind).
Examples of issues: battery life, phone sleeping, waiting for compatible kernel or hack for new android versions, swap support, vpn support, other filesystem support... the list goes on.
But you allowed to be happy with your phone. Not everybody needs these things...
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
He has a very good point. Where other android device builders seem to be promoting development (Huawei excluded, theyre miser's just like Motorola), this company seems to be more prominent on the restriction of development on their devices.
One very good reason for this is that Motorola has been such a huge phone developer for such a long time, that they have probably let it go to their head. Now instead of saying "our consumers said they need this", they're sayin "we think they really only need this." I've used Motorola phones for about 8 years now, and I would DEFINITELY say someone forgot that their customers put them where their at.
I agree. Someone needs to get out there and give them a taste of Good Customer Service. I dont think restricting dev's is a great marketing idea, or revenue booster anyways. BUt then again, to each, his own.
This is PR.Nothing more.
Know motorola they do not update РСТ(Russian legal)Milestone, they do not
need to unlock this crap bootloader.
We seem to have a lot of confusion in the Atrix forum about the implications of an encrypted and or locked bootloader.
What is a bootloader?
See this article for a decent description.
Is the bootloader on the Atrix encrypted?
We don't know and likely will not know until the phone is released and people smarter than I can look at it. No reviews, including the Engadget review, have looked at whether the bootloader is encrypted. However, some have inaccurately said that it is because the installation of non-market apps is not permitted the bootloader is encrypted. However, this is a separate issue and is a requirement imposed by ATT that has nothing to do with the bootloader.
Why do people assume the bootloader is encypted?
Motorola has a strong recent history of releasing encrypted bootloaders, see the Droid X and Milestone phones. Most of the current discussion about the bootloader is limited to what we have seen from Motorola in the past. That being said, there is some hope that the bootloader will not be encrypted. In prior phones, such as the Droid X and Milestone, Motorola relied on the eFuse feature of Texas Instruments OMAP processors. Given that the Atrix uses an Nvidia Tegra 2 chip it is unlikely that Motorola can utilize the same eFuse technology.
As a result, there is some reason to be optimistic that the Atrix will only have a locked and not encrypted bootloader.
What is the difference between a locked and encrypted bootloader?
This is a good post on the topic. Locked bootloaders are on almost all android phones, including the Nexus S. Although certain locks, such as the Nexus S, are easier to open. A locked bootloader is essentially software that is written in such a way so as to prevent you from gaining access. So far XDA devs have been very skilled at cracking locked bootloaders by finding holes in this software.
An encrypted bootloader, from my understanding, is not itself encrypted, but signed by an encryption key. The phones hardware will refuse to boot unless the software that it attempts to boot is signed with the correct encryption key. The only options to crack this protection appear to be to go around the bootloader which is unlikely or to crack the encryption which also appears unlikely. See this post for more discussion.
What does an encypted bootloader mean to me?
This post at Android Forums provides a great summary of the effects of an encrypted bootloader. If you have the time, the entire thread is very informative.
The bad news is an encrypted bootloader likely means no custom kernels. This means that custom ROMs must rely on the official kernel. It also means the OS version (Froyo, Gingerbread . . .) is limited to whatever the official release is. The good news is that root access is still be possible. Root access allows you to run certain applications as the root or administrator. This allows for a lot of customization and hacking of your phone.
In the end, an encrypted bootloader may hinder your ability to completely hack the phone.
Can an encrypted bootloader be cracked?
Unlikely. For a brief discussion see this post and read the thread for a better understanding. I am aware that there is a team working on cracking the Milestone encryption using the BIONIC platform and a distributed computing effort, see androinc.net. However, even that team admits that the second coming of the dinosaurs may occur before they crack the encryption. I believe on the Milestone that the encryption is 1024 bit, which according to androinc.net may take hundreds of thousands of years to crack using a brute force method, even on a distributed computing platform.
Can a locked bootloader be cracked?
We won't know until we see it, but likely yes. Generally all software coded by humans has some error in it that can be exploited.
Why should I care if the bootloader protection cannot be circumvented?
You don't have to. But, in today's environment, consumers are tied to a 2 year contracts but new phones are released on a 1 year or less timeline. This means the device you buy today will likely be forgotten by your carrier and the phone manufacturer long before your contract is up. The inability to load custom kernels means that consumers cannot upgrade their own phones after the manufacturer decides to no longer support the phone. The decision to stop supporting upgrades often occurs well before a phones 2 year birthday, see the Motorola Upgrade Roadmap.
In addition, many people believe that they have purchased the phone hardware and should be permitted to do anything that they please with the hardware.
** I do not claim to be an expert, I have only recanted the results of my research. If I have made a mistake please let me know.
thanks for writing this i was going to my self today as i have been fighting people all day with this, i was trying to get motorola to tell me as i had a few reps available in a forum and one said that he will get back to me shortly with an answer ... but i was having to do so with people that dont know the difference chiming in and making the q&a with moto hard even for some one who does know what hes talking about ... any how i will update when i get my reply, and thanks again for putting info in right place btw up at top you put milestone instead of atrix
What a great and informative post. THIS SHOULD BE STICKIED for the time being to prevent future threads that ask the same questions. Great job.
Sent from my MSM using XDA App
sdlopez83 said:
What a great and informative post. THIS SHOULD BE STICKIED for the time being to prevent future threads that ask the same questions. Great job.
Sent from my MSM using XDA App
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+1 here, very informative.
Thanks and sorry about the typos.
Nice job both in the layout and in maintaining an unbiased take on the possibilities.
thankyou for explaining that so well
can we get a MOD to sticky this for a while, at least until we know whether it is encrypted or what not. could really cut down on the "does the bootloader restrict me from doing xxxxxxxxxxx?" chatter on all the threads.
+1 Great post! Guess we'll have to wait for quantum computers before we can crack 1024bit encryption in under a lifetime (seconds probably.) But very informative, I'm off to read everything you linked in your post.
Excellent post sir!
Great post! This should be required reading...
That means that if the Atrix 4G is HSUPA disabled, there's no way around it?
royalemint said:
That means that if the Atrix 4G is HSUPA disabled, there's no way around it?
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please post in the general forum where a thread is going about this. however, it can mostly likely be resolved with a new modem driver.
I have an Atrix 4G in my hand... how can I find out if the bootloader is encrypted?
EGBTMagus said:
I have an Atrix 4G in my hand... how can I find out if the bootloader is encrypted?
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I would like to know also. I know there are other threads about this the only problem is that there are 6 different answers/opinions.
Does not look good:
The Atrix 4G has a locked and encrypted bootloader. More bootloader related announcements are forthcoming.
http://getsatisfaction.com/motorola...tm_medium=email&utm_source=reply_notification
TinyRK said:
Does not look good:
The Atrix 4G has a locked and encrypted bootloader. More bootloader related announcements are forthcoming.
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... and here just for the record:
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45249?start=15&tstart=0
meta96 said:
... and here just for the record:
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45249?start=15&tstart=0
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I saw both of those. I am not totally convinced by a PR response, even if it is from Moto. So far the devs here in XDA seem to think it is only signed. I am inclined to believe them more, at least until I see otherwise.
Also, I need to update my OP and will try and do so tonight.
krkeegan said:
I saw both of those. I am not totally convinced by a PR response, even if it is from Moto. So far the devs here in XDA seem to think it is only signed. I am inclined to believe them more, at least until I see otherwise.
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45249?start=15&tstart=0
Also, I need to update my OP and will try and do so tonight.
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... the number of page views for this topic is bad PR, isn't it? It is just a act/react thing, you know ...
Who is your daddy and what does he do?
I dunno why but that's immediately what I thought of, lol
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
I'm completely new to HTC, but not Android (so that's N00b status again), and I have a Developer's Edition coming tomorrow. I'm assuming that I will not need to bother with the process of unlocking the bootloader via htcdev due to it (supposedly) being already. My next issue is, will I be able to root/s-off/supercid using the most common methods mentioned (HSoon's toolkit, etc.) in the threads here? Some of them are dated, and it does look like they are trying to keep devs on their toes with this one. Also, any advice for what carrier I should go with is MUCH appreciated. I'm leaning T-Mobile, but also hearing things about how their LTE bands are limited in the US right now. Again, I'm not trying to flash a custom rom (yet), I only want to completely unlock it, and I was wondering if I've left anything out. I've already got the SDK, the fastboot files, all that from the suggested threads, for sending any command codes I might have to. I guess I would just like to know if anyone's been in my shoes here, to let me know what to expect. Then again, the fun is in getting right, anyway, isn't it? Sorry if I rambled or my tech speak was off, but I think I've read up pretty well on this phone, and this is the night cap on the studying. Thanks to every one of you for reading and the time and knowledge you give us on this technology. -Mike
Do not ask for an ETA
Once the mods start getting onto people for asking, I'll take my dev work off site. I don't want to upset mods and admin over people being impatient.
I've been looking and root isn't available yet for the Snapdragon version. I've created root access for a few devices so far, be it years ago. I want root, so I've decided to start dev work on my own. Can't say how long it will take, or if I will be able to, but anyone that is willing to test or help, feel free to comment and say so, since help would be greatly appreciated. Testers are needed.
First off though, what advancements have been made so far? Several posts I've seen have dead links to data, so to start, I'll need to know what's been done already. No need to reproduce failed outcomes.
Reserved for future links.
drakaina said:
Do not ask for an ETA
Once the mods start getting onto people for asking, I'll take my dev work off site. I don't want to upset mods and admin over people being impatient.
I've been looking and root isn't available yet for the Snapdragon version. I've created root access for a few devices so far, be it years ago. I want root, so I've decided to start dev work on my own. Can't say how long it will take, or if I will be able to, but anyone that is willing to test or help, feel free to comment and say so, since help would be greatly appreciated. Testers are needed.
First off though, what advancements have been made so far? Several posts I've seen have dead links to data, so to start, I'll need to know what's been done already. No need to reproduce failed outcomes.
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One guy flashed a combination version of the firmware and got the OEM unlock toggle to show on a SM-G960U. It switched on and off but I am not sure if it actually unlocked the bootloader or not. There is a TWRP already ported to the Snapdragon version as well, although only for the Chinese and Hong Kong version, it should work on our device if you can get the bootloader unlocked first. I have been scouring online and in the forums since the phone came out and that's all I nave found thus far. Im sure you already know these things, but I figured I would say it just in case you weren't aware. Hope you get it figured out! Good luck! ?
The only development I've heard of is one user claiming he got a diagnostic boot with SElinux permissive. (In the S9 root dev forum/thread) I also have a source who is NOT trying to be identified publicly because he works for google, but he informed me that "the android O build for SAMSUNG DEVICES, was developed with special instructions in it to automatically kick a KERNEL PANIC , if ANY app NOT on some internal White List attempts to access, modify, or send SU commands through any NOT LISTED app with those permissions granted already." ... now I'm not an Android level programmer, but I'm an old Linux dev/ penetration systems tester (lol) and from what I am gathering is that the patches or whatever that Samsung added to the O.S. also included an encrypted or hidden white list, which he says is VERY small, (as in number of items actually in the list) , but even he said they do not have any access nor knowledge of where they stored this. He did tell me that they delivered an incomplete or infant code for Samsung Snapdragon Model Note 8,9 and s8,9, and it was so crude that not only would it not compile because of missing crap Samsung deliberately did not supply them with... but he said that it was NOT lockable in that state, so Samsung either inserted their own locked kernel and whatever to create this B.S. broke down version of Android that is Root crippled. BUT the only clue he could give me was that "On no level can an E-fuse provide an unbreakable chain of trust, and that if an extreme modded were to actually break down the system board of an S9, they could in theory remove or add some sort of device that would bypass the Qualcomm Secure boot completely!" ... now this ain't a best friend or nothing so truthfully I'm surprised I got this much from him... but I've known who he was and that hes worked for Google nearly 12 years as a developer and software engineer. So I dont know if any of that info helps... but my contribution is that I can get my device (s9+ from Sprint USA Sm-g965U) replaced with little to no hassle, so I'm 100% willing to do any tests u need, providing that you give me at least a basic level of instruction, as to each set of commands or package u want me to flash. I'm pretty android savvy considering it's just a linux derivative... and I know Samsung 100% .. I've had every S - galaxy since day 1 . BUT throwing blind commands at my device that I have 0 understanding of their impact, makes me feel like a squirrel running across the freeway during rush hour! Plz Do me a favor and shoot me a private message and I'll give you my cell number and email so u can reach me quicker when you have something u need tested! Now please people don't berate me if something he said to me was not correct or you have different data to disprove what he said. I literally took notes by hand and had him confirm them, so I'm just the messenger/informant and u gotta realize that as a google employee, he #1 is partially not knowledgeable of ways to exploit the O.S. which is what the hackers come into play for. And make the developers work **** tons harder to FIX the hole the ****ed up in the 1st place! ? Lol... and #2. I did ask about the possibility of a $$$$ number he would take in order to provide an actual Eng-boot like that of the S8, and he said that "Those are developed by each individual corporation after they are provided the build source code", and that "google has no interest in possessing or archiving any such file because the O.S. does not need it to provide a developers version of the O.S., which is as far as Google goes in providing a new system to the companies.... so for something like that, reach out to one of the underpaid factories full of workers and I'm sure they would happily give you what you want for much cheaper than you imagine!" Ok that was very long winded but I wanted to cover all I could because I prob wont check this thread anymore.... plz PM me bro so I can get you my info ... and let's put this Flashing Guinea Pig (me) to work in getting this ***** at least hack rooted or maybe full!!!
Hello, i've just finished reading all above and from what I've read I can tell that not all hopes are lost as well I'm offering my help to be a (TESTER) for any attempts you wanna try, however, please note that I'm NO DEV just a user who would like to his phone rooted ASAP that's all, so please explain the commands that you would give me and the steps. plz PM me so I can get you my contact info
It ain't happening with the known exploits.
Ok, so far I have a few routes I plan to take that have worked on other devices. Working on the first, but not at the moment. The rude comment compelled me to post my own. Devs don't follow old ways of doing things so get that out of your head if you want to think forward, not backwards. I have found what could be an exploit in the rom itself that "might" be the starting point to get root access. This is NOT an ETA but hopefully we can start testing in the next few weeks.
I'll say it now, don't get overly excited a possible exploit has been found. I make no guarantee on it being THE exploit needed. Just be patient, and if you have insight on a way to attack this or another possible exploit, do say so.
If anyone knows of the bootloader partition already having been copied, post a link. I share mine at the moment so I don't always have it around, so any of the bootloader data would help greatly.
drakaina said:
Ok, so far I have a few routes I plan to take that have worked on other devices. Working on the first, but not at the moment. The rude comment compelled me to post my own.
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I saw no rude comment, just a dose of reality for you, a little thin skinned are we?
You're continuing to be rude and attempting to derail the point of the thread. Meh, I'm getting back to work since it not good to feed trolls.
Pretty sure placeholder threads are not allowed on XDA...
I am making presence known now. I will be watching this closely
Technicly this thread don't even need to exist right now.
drakaina said:
Do not ask for an ETA
First off though, what advancements have been made so far? Several posts I've seen have dead links to data, so to start, I'll need to know what's been done already. No need to reproduce failed outcomes.
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Myself and a handful of other people involved in us snapdragon s8/s8+/n8+ took a brief crack at it a little while ago to no avail. I don't want to go into too many details on here as 1) Samsung is watching surely and 2) the contents from the peanut gallery get old quick but here are the cliff notes. Feel free to pm me here or on telegram for more details. (Backstory on me, I created samfail which was the first/only n8 root method and the second for the s8/s8+ and the only published one beyond bootloader v1.
- samfail is 100% patched. No known way to modify system
- you can't mix combo boot with stock images anymore. Samsung got wise to that. Figured out how to track it if we can force write a system image
- there is a ton of new system level security because they had to move out of the boot image due to treble. Probably the first big nail in the coffin I'm.
- don't waste your time on the oem unlock toggle in the combo/factory rom. No it doesn't unlock the bootloader. The us snapdragons don't respect it's value outside of turning off frp, but that was with the s8 idk if it is still true on the s9.
- the other poster is right about the anti root thing. It's in the open source kernel code. If anything being exexuted under uid 0 matches a list of common/known root mods/not stuff that is supposed to be there, instant kernel panic. Things like "binary is called BusyBox" are on that list.
This was the point I gave up. Partially because I don't have the device so testing is extremely difficult (I wised up this year and purchased a intl. Snapdragon sm-g9650 which has full oem unlock just like the exy).
In sure there's things in forgetting right now and again, being too transparent here results in root method bring patched faster, hit me up if you want more brain dump
drakaina said:
You're continuing to be rude and attempting to derail the point of the thread. Meh, I'm getting back to work since it not good to feed trolls.
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Although I have seen a lot worse on these threads, his comment was pretty negative, which is what we do not need in this thread. I wish people would just keep their thoughts to themselves if they have nothing to add to the discussion. I also will test so let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
i also have a g965u and have been trying various mwthods to no avail at this point.. we need new exploits to be found.. all the obvious stuff will not work
It is because of this is why I will never buy another Galaxy phone. I need root.
zzEvilGeniuszz said:
It is because of this is why I will never buy another Galaxy phone. I need root.
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Just don't buy snapdragon, the Exynos S9s are unlocked
*Detection* said:
Just don't buy snapdragon, the Exynos S9s are unlocked
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You cannot buy Exynos from a carrier. You have to buy directly from Samsung for that. I know because I requested a Exynos variant. Sprint said they couldn't (or wouldn't) give me one.
edit: nvm not worth it.
zzEvilGeniuszz said:
You cannot buy Exynos from a carrier. You have to buy directly from Samsung for that. I know because I requested a Exynos variant. Sprint said they couldn't (or wouldn't) give me one.
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i talked to samsung a couple months ago before i got my s9 and they told me they wont sell you one directly with the Exynos. I was going to get the s8 with the exynos if they would of sold me one. They wouldn'ty so i bought a tmobile s9 with my carrier.
has anyone been able to reboot phone into edl mode?