Database Develop

Keypad Light tweak?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=43822&highlight=keyboard
Is there any current way to perform this kind of tweak for the Wizard? I've just spent 20 mins searching but couldn't find anything related
Cheers!

nope

I have to say, despite it's nice design I'm really starting to get irritated with my Vario now... The processor is uber-slow compared to all other HTC devices, it's not tweakable anywhere near the amount the others are, it has an OMAP processor and thus won't be possible to run Linux etc on it.
I think even after 2 months it's time to look at a new device

blackobsidian said:
it has an OMAP processor and thus won't be possible to run Linux etc on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's bull**** - the first (?) Linux smartphone from imcosys runs the TI OMAP 730 with embedded Linux;
http://www.imcosys.com/html/technische_daten.html
It's just a matter of people actually doing the work to port the O/S. Personally I think people who want to run Linux on Device X should just get Device Y which runs it natively - less work, and you support a company that already readily supports Linux on Device X-alikes.
As far as CPU-speed goes, it appears to vary per-reviewer. Some say it's slower, others say it's faster. I guess it'll depend on what you're doing with it.
Not sure what you mean with regards to 'tweakable', though. The only 'tweak' I'm readily aware of that works on e.g. the HTC Universal but not on the HTC Wizard is the keyboard backlight. They both run WM5 and are tweakable to pretty much the same extent as far as the O/S and running software allows.
That said - I obviously rather like mine. -That- said, I can see myself moving to a different device 2-3 years down the road quite easily, especially with all the network upgrades -and- the speed at which new devices are coming out. Wouldn't be too surprised if they're all rather like smaller OQO's by that time.. handheld, good battery, running will Windows XP (probably not Vista yet - hardware specs for that thing are through the roof)

See my comments have all been based on various forums I've read, posted on and recieved replies from. Apparently the OMAP architecture is completely different from most other processors and so it's a niche market (meaning people won't bother with trying to do anything good such as Linux, major overhauls of software, overclocking software etc) - Even Anton Tomov's Hack Master software is having issues with the overclocking functionality and keeps getting pushed back and back and back some more.
I have to say I bought my Wizard (MDA Vario flavour) because the design is slick and it was pretty fast in the shop demonstration. I didn't realise that the second I put anything on it, it'd slow down so much.
I've reflashed it with the best and fastest current rom out there:-
VERSION
ROM Version 1.6.7.1
ROM Date 38624
Radio Version 01.13.10
Protocol Version 4.0.13.17
ExtROM Version 1.3.2.102
And although it's faster than the bloated T-Mobile crap that it comes with by default it's still slow (my today screen only has SPB Pocket Plus and Pocket Weather on it but it still chugs occasionally) and it's an absolute nightmare playing something as simple as Arkaball!
"tweakable" I class as something I can mess around with. With my Samsung T100 I completely replaced the casin with a clear casing, reconfigured everything including LED colour and created my own firmware for it etc. I basically like to try and be individual which is why I won't got for a device already running Linux etc.
Tech Knowledge + Gadgets + being a geek = wanting cool stuff
OQO looks nice but huge. I'm looking for a device I can use for business (running a QA department) and as a mobile. Shoulda got myself a P990i... lol

Here's a proposition for your thoughts... if everybody is customizing their device, then not customizing your device makes you more of an individual
That said - yes, if you want that manner of tweakability, you should've gone for a different device. I'm not sure why a Linux-preloaded one would be excluded from the get-go because you didn't put it on there yourself.. it certainly should open up tweaking possibilities.
Overclocking software for the OMAP does exist - and I'm sure AntonTomov will get one out eventually as the number of devices using the OMAP increases. I'm sure the XScale will still be #1 for some time to be with the recent pricedrops and announced speeds (1GHz - vroom).
However, just because it's a different architecture doesn't typically stop the person who go "But does it run Linux? it does now!" on e.g. Slashdot . Of course if Linux was on your mind from the get-go, a little googling around would've readily shown which devices run it natively and which have been successfully made to run it, to whatever extent, and should've based your purchasing decision on that
For what it's worth, the Treo 700w (650? - been a while) was on my list, but once in the shop with the device in my hand, I knew I would grow to hate the form factor within the first week.

ZeBoxx said:
the first (?) Linux smartphone from imcosys runs the TI OMAP 730 with embedded Linux;
http://www.imcosys.com/html/technische_daten.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are many Linux phones already
http://openezx.org
but the ports to HTC Blueangel and HTC Universal
use more free software
You can also check Linux for OMAP page
http://focus.ti.com/docs/general/sp...mplatedata/cm/splashdsp/data/linux_com_portal

Correction... Everyone on this forum is customising their device... Most people in the real world buy a device and use it out of the box as they don't know or can't be bothered to upgrade it lol.
To be honest with you this is my first PPC device. Before this I was in a job where I didn't want or need the functions and features the PPC has and I had a K750i. Before that was a 7610 and before that a GX20.
I have to admit I was in the process of looking at PPC's when my K750i had an unfortunate incident where my fist went through the screen because it was crashing every 30 seconds... That's why I didn't research as much as I should have before getting my Wizard.
I've learned my lesson though and next time there'll be a LOT of research involved before I buy!
I'm assuming that individual hardware can't be replaced in the Wizard either? i.e. buying a faster processor/mobo etc? My mate's Universal had it's mobo replaced so maybe...
1Gb? Mmmm....
Treo 700w is nice but it was the 990i I meant to say (I updfated it when I realised what I posted lol)

ZeBoxx said:
I'm not sure why a Linux-preloaded one would be excluded from the get-go because you didn't put it on there yourself.. it certainly should open up tweaking possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"running Linux" != running free software platform.
Compare Motorola A780 and HTC Blueangel/Universal.

well, I did say "should". I didn't say it would come with a CD with all the source code on it ready for compilation
We're getting way, way off-topic anyway. Keyboard/button backlights tweaks are as of yet non-existant. Chances are you can tweak it by modifying the driver - but nobody's confirmed or done so. Worst case scenario is that it's all in hardware. For the specific tweak mentioned - no, because the Wizard doesn't have a light sensor. Arguably you could start up the camera ever once in a while and check lighting that way, but it wouldn't be very accurate

should we really have to wait for froyo?

First of all, I've got to say that Android is awesome.
Now here's the thing
I enthusiastically bought a phone with, among many other fantastic things:
1. 800x480 resolution
2. 512mb RAM
3. 32mb storage capability (phones supposed to format 32mb)
4. A high end screen ( that I now understand to be 3 years old), for what should be smooth scrolling
5. stable 3G connectivity
6. And I assumed the gallery would be at least as quality as the older firmware versions. In truth its still solid but its fair to expect firmware updates to, at the very least, not make stuff worse...
Meanwhile the froyo update is going to "free up additional RAM" and be able to format said SD cards. Don't get me wrong I don't expect Android to fix the ridiculous antennae placement or make the cameras flash more useful. Design defects are certainly tolerable and sometimes even expected, but only to a point.
I feel like broadly experienced bugs and specification shortcomings should be fixed ASAP.
I love that Android is going to give us additional, awesome features in future updates. But I don't think we should have to wait for bug fixes while Android packages them as new features in a forthcomimg update, as though they are doing us a favor. Android can take as long as they want to give us new features and I'm grateful for them and I won't complain about the wait.
But I must insist that my phone have the basic functions I purchased within at most a couple of months. We are talking about solving problems not adding features. Shouldn't the priority of the updates reflect that?

I don't know if they've released the changelog or not, but let's hope for several minor upgrades to come with it...

What's the question?

j.bruha said:
What's the question?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-> should we really have to wait for froyo?

All I want is my ram. I'm very upset over that.

AndroidPerson said:
First of all, I've got to say that Android is awesome.
Now here's the thing
I enthusiastically bought a phone with, among many other fantastic things:
1. 800x480 resolution
2. 512mb RAM
3. 32mb storage capability (phones supposed to format 32mb)
4. A high end screen ( that I now understand to be 3 years old), for what should be smooth scrolling
5. stable 3G connectivity
6. And I assumed the gallery would be at least as quality as the older firmware versions. In truth its still solid but its fair to expect firmware updates to, at the very least, not make stuff worse...
Meanwhile the froyo update is going to "free up additional RAM" and be able to format said SD cards. Don't get me wrong I don't expect Android to fix the ridiculous antennae placement or make the cameras flash more useful. Design defects are certainly tolerable and sometimes even expected, but only to a point.
I feel like broadly experienced bugs and specification shortcomings should be fixed ASAP.
I love that Android is going to give us additional, awesome features in future updates. But I don't think we should have to wait for bug fixes while Android packages them as new features in a forthcomimg update, as though they are doing us a favor. Android can take as long as they want to give us new features and I'm grateful for them and I won't complain about the wait.
But I must insist that my phone have the basic functions I purchased within at most a couple of months. We are talking about solving problems not adding features. Shouldn't the priority of the updates reflect that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other than the mem/kernel thing....are you expecting some kind of handjob update?

don't we have the additional RAM in cyanogen mod?

muncheese said:
Other than the mem/kernel thing....are you expecting some kind of handjob update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hj's are cool I guess.
But If you were told the nexus one had 256mb ram and like 600x300 resolution and so on, would you have so excitedly purchased the phone? I sure wouldn't have...
I thnk we should have the basic functions the phone is supposed to have. I know its early but only ram and SD card formatting are mentioned in froyo. Shouldn't the phone have the resolution that it says it has, the ram that it says it has, and the other basic functions that it says it has prior to fun, cool, exciting feature additions? And isn't weird that Google hasnt even mentioned any intention to fix the phone so that it meets its own spec sheet? We aren't talking about demanding flash or decent video playback support or a UI overhaul. We are just talking about features and functions we were told we were buying.
Should we really still be waiting for that? I feel like we shouldn't

But the phone does have 512MB of memory and it does have 800x400 resolution. Crack it open and take a look at the parts yourself.
Sure they might not have complete software support for everything at launch and that can be frustration for some, but as far as I am concerned they put more hardware into the phone than they could use at that point for future proofing reasons. I'm happy about that.
Even after they enable all of the memory it still probably won't be used by anyone.

AndroidPerson said:
Hj's are cool I guess.
But If you were told the nexus one had 256mb ram and like 600x300 resolution and so on, would you have so excitedly purchased the phone? I sure wouldn't have...
I thnk we should have the basic functions the phone is supposed to have. I know its early but only ram and SD card formatting are mentioned in froyo. Shouldn't the phone have the resolution that it says it has, the ram that it says it has, and the other basic functions that it says it has prior to fun, cool, exciting feature additions? And isn't weird that Google hasnt even mentioned any intention to fix the phone so that it meets its own spec sheet? We aren't talking about demanding flash or decent video playback support or a UI overhaul. We are just talking about features and functions we were told we were buying.
Should we really still be waiting for that? I feel like we shouldn't
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I received the phone I was ecstatic. That's before realizing half the ram was disabled.
I wasn't really planning on running official roms anyways, so maybe that differs for me. So I've never really been of the mind of "waiting for google to do their thing". I'm a tweaker by nature, from my phones, to my vehicles, to my shoelaces.
As far as the "false resolution" of the oled displays. Lol, you can't expect new tech to be measured by old standards.

PrawnPoBoy said:
Even after they enable all of the memory it still probably won't be used by anyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
It would be nice if android were proper open source, instead of open source when google feels like it. For example, 'Firefox', as soon as development starts on a new version, it is completely open from the start. Though we are dealing with two different companies, with different objectives. Mozilla wants a free and open internet for the sake of a free and open internet, Google wants a free and open internet because it is good for the bottom line. In the end, both benefit me.

liam.lah said:
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
It would be nice if android were proper open source, instead of open source when google feels like it. For example, 'Firefox', as soon as development starts on a new version, it is completely open from the start. Though we are dealing with two different companies, with different objectives. Mozilla wants a free and open internet for the sake of a free and open internet, Google wants a free and open internet because it is good for the bottom line. In the end, both benefit me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait.... I was under the impression that when they say 'extra ram' its freeing up RAM from the OS, not physically?
Is someone saying we have the same amount of RAM as in the desire then? :/ (that f'ed up number, like 560 or something)

(discussion) Rom development for Galaxy

Or rather lack of it.
I start of by saying, i am not a dev.
But i see that the way rom's is made for Galaxy lack's most of the things that makes custom rom's good, SGS's rom's seem more themes than proper custom rom's.
I have used Nexus and some of the great rom's to that device.
The SGS way to update FW seems to stop all real development?
What do you think?

samsung's drivers are encrypted and this makes developing roms pretty difficult. there can only be roms based on samsung releases. at least this is what i understood .
i am sure that the growing user base of this great phone will bring more attention from great developers ( hi paul ! , who will be able to overcome most of the problems and give us great roms.

The final non-beta firmware from Samsung hasn't even arrived yet! Give it some time!
Custom roms now would be obsolete within one week because of a newer official beta Firmware.

I was aware that a few days ago paul obrien was having a conversation to cyanogen about creating a vendor tree for the sgs which would enable us to use cyanogen mod. If someone can confirm this with paul this would be very good news for us sgs owners.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Right now I'd settle for a vanilla Froyo (my last phone was the N1).
The SGS has potential, but the stock ROM is so infested with Samsung customisations (eg non- AOSP dialer, contacts, music, etc etc), why have they re-invented the wheel?? Before this phone I didn't think fragmentation existed, only "legacy". Now I know exactly what fragmentation is, and it's ugly, annoying.
The only reason I ditched the N1 is because Google have said there would be no N2 so I figured I find another phone.
Now I realise how bad fragmentation is, the iPhone really doesn't look so bad again ... (previous to the N1, I was on a iPhone 3G)
It's a pity vendors can't be mandated to supply optional vanilla ROMs - I know Samsung have released a bunch of source code, maybe that's a start.
I guess I'll give it six months. I'm an end-user who wants an easy life, but appreciates the potential and integration with google services that Android provides - moreso in its vanilla form.

Did anybody try compiling the sourcecode that was released by samsung to create a flashable working version of the manufacturer Android version that is currently running in our phones?
If that is possible, and we do have the source code from samsung, I don't see why it would be impossible to get at least a vanilla AOSP 2.1-update1 running on our galaxies.
The encrypted (or closed source drivers) can be linked as binaries to the new AOSP build running on top of Samsung's kernel (which we do have the source code to).
Side question, anybody knows how to flash the phone once you got all source code by samsung compiled ? I know we end up with a zImage, possibly a system.img.. can you create Odin files with these easily ? any thoughts?

miker71 said:
Right now I'd settle for a vanilla Froyo (my last phone was the N1).
The SGS has potential, but the stock ROM is so infested with Samsung customisations (eg non- AOSP dialer, contacts, music, etc etc), why have they re-invented the wheel?? Before this phone I didn't think fragmentation existed, only "legacy". Now I know exactly what fragmentation is, and it's ugly, annoying.
The only reason I ditched the N1 is because Google have said there would be no N2 so I figured I find another phone.
Now I realise how bad fragmentation is, the iPhone really doesn't look so bad again ... (previous to the N1, I was on a iPhone 3G)
It's a pity vendors can't be mandated to supply optional vanilla ROMs - I know Samsung have released a bunch of source code, maybe that's a start.
I guess I'll give it six months. I'm an end-user who wants an easy life, but appreciates the potential and integration with google services that Android provides - moreso in its vanilla form.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here. previous n1 user, got sgs just after google announced no n2 wil be available.
just took some actions to make things smoother for me :
1. launcher pro
2. dialer one
3. handcent sms
i used them all on n1 and now i do on sgs. its all good again . still, untill froyo hits us i think i will still miss n1's speed. also, i think after froyo hits us, we will get some more roms and goodies for our phones.

what exactly is a vendor tree? and how would it be able to get around the driver issue which is apparant to the SGS?

Some info on the .rfs files that samsung uses:
http://movitool.ntd.homelinux.org/trac/movitool/wiki/RFS

Merging into AOSP
It seems like good idea to have the scripts merged into AOSP tree that support building stock ROMS for samsung galaxy s, with binary-only files being downloaded directly from the device (if I'm not mistaken, this is how one can build froyo for N1 from source now).
From someone else experience: would the patches that add vendor-specific support for SGS be accepted into AOSP tree? Are there known blockers for this?

Hmm.. rom development is quite sluggish due to the firmwares that are being released!
But i really don't care! the original rom is fine with WJG5!
I just use Launcher Pro and widgets to make it better! Speed is ok!

bratfink said:
I was aware that a few days ago paul obrien was having a conversation to cyanogen about creating a vendor tree for the sgs which would enable us to use cyanogen mod. If someone can confirm this with paul this would be very good news for us sgs owners.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This still doesn't get around the fact that the drivers are locked down and are near impossible to implement into outside roms that aren't Samsung based. Talking isn't doing anything.

miker71 said:
Right now I'd settle for a vanilla Froyo (my last phone was the N1).
The SGS has potential, but the stock ROM is so infested with Samsung customisations (eg non- AOSP dialer, contacts, music, etc etc), why have they re-invented the wheel?? Before this phone I didn't think fragmentation existed, only "legacy". Now I know exactly what fragmentation is, and it's ugly, annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't fragmentation though, this is exactly what Google wanted Android to be - a base for phone manufacturers to lay their own tweaks on top of. HTC, Motorola, Samsung etc don't just want to be differentiated by how their handset looks, they want to put their own stuff on there too. Previously each had their own OS (Symbian, UIQ etc.) that took years of development time and was very slow moving. Google provided Android as a quick route to market for a phone, the manufacturers didn't really have to worry too much about the OS and then get lots of apps for free.
The thing is, the vanilla apps are a bit.. basic. The standard music player is fine, it works and does what it says on the tin. The standard contacts is fine again etc. Makers can ship a ROM based on vanilla Android and it would be good to go, but if they can improve upon the apps and brand it slightly more then all well and good.
But it's not fragmentation. Android is a base. A starting point. It's not meant to look exactly the same on every device, but it's meant to work exactly the same as much as possible. These manufacturers get a stable, standard, capable phone OS for free, which to them is awesome. It saves them so much time and is ultimately why eventually there will be nothing but Android on devices. It's the Mac vs PC all over again - cool but closed and restricted vs ubiquitous free-for-all.

psychoace said:
This still doesn't get around the fact that the drivers are locked down and are near impossible to implement into outside roms that aren't Samsung based. Talking isn't doing anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the right people get onto it it's only a matter of time. The G1 camera drivers were reverse engineered for Eclair CM ROMs after HTC gave the community sod-all.

dirk1978 said:
If the right people get onto it it's only a matter of time. The G1 camera drivers were reverse engineered for Eclair CM ROMs after HTC gave the community sod-all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't they have the source for 1.6's camera drivers? At least then they had a base to start from. That is not true with Samsungs drivers.

A little bit OT but due to the fact that in this thread are some EX-Nexus users: Would you recommend switching to the SGS ?

dirk1978 said:
it's meant to work exactly the same as much as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's when it doesn't work, it's very very annoying. How long do we have to wait for the Samsung music player to enable scrobbling? Sure I can use a different app from the Market - meaning Samsung wasted effort on their own Music app, why didn't they build on the AOSP version which does support scrobbling and iSyncr, etc because they use standard API or whatever so these other programs can read the state or whatever they need to do.
Same with dialer and contacts - on Launcher Pro, pressing the default Contacts icon - won't get you anything except maybe a FC :-(
The AOSP Desk Clock - where is that? If I install a clock from Market then I have two different Alarm daemons which is a waste of everyone's time when the default Clock in AOSP Eclair is fine and - more importantly - compatible with stuff and API calls.
Then all the other stuff that may or may not be Samsung stuff - the DRM, the Device Management, the Samsung Account - given the option I just don't want that stuff.
I'm intending to flash JG5 (from factory shipped JF3) which may increase performance but presume won't make these other problems go away.
I'm really happy with the hardware - but currently I am dissatisfied with the software and "Samsung knows best". For me, personally, Google knows best (and I bet they have data on me to prove it!), so I really want to see Froyo AOSP version for the Galaxy. That day may come, or it may not ...
I know I know, "can't please all of the people all of the time"

PAO1908 said:
A little bit OT but due to the fact that in this thread are some EX-Nexus users: Would you recommend switching to the SGS ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right now the question for me would be "do I recommend switching from Samsung OS from Froyo" - my answer would be no, unless:
1. better multitouch is important to you (better for gaming, no axis mess-up)
2. 4" screen is important (I do really like the Samsung screen)
3. Better built-in audio quality is important (the Galaxy is noticeably louder than the N1 and I think it may have a better A/D sampler too)
So fully recommend switching for hardware, UNLESS you can't live without Froyo.
I can live with the SGS shortcomings. Well, for a few months anyway ... and even if AOSP never comes there are alternatives in the Market but does mean you have to ignore the Samsung stock apps depending what you want to do (which means added complexity to your life, which I don't always have time to deal with!)

psychoace said:
This still doesn't get around the fact that the drivers are locked down and are near impossible to implement into outside roms that aren't Samsung based. Talking isn't doing anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have any proof that the drivers are actually locked down in any way?
I can see the source of all the modules provided by samsung, just 3 of them (pvrsrvkm, s3cbc and s3clcd) are just precompiled, and if you check the info they are GPL.
Am I missing something?

@miker71
Thanks a lot !

Finally upgrading to Windows Phone 7, need suggestions

Ok so Im sure this will be moved but I wanted my fellow TP 2 owners advice on what would be a good upgrade for moving to an at&t windows phone 7.
I have done some research and believe that the LG Quantum is more to my liking than the HTC Surround or Samsung focus for various reasons starting with the keyboard. I have also found that it offers tethering as well as voice to text which seems to be a cool feature. I have actually held the phone in my hands yesterday and compared to the other wp 7 at&t phones. It will no doubt be a bit different than what Im used to but nevertheless I do like the idea of having the latest and greatest hw and sw.
I am curious if these phones will support Tomtom as I use it all the time. I know that it will have to be jailbroken to load future custom roms but I think I can be patient.
I guess I am just wondering if Im missing something so if you all have any insight I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks.

swtaltima said:
Ok so Im sure this will be moved but I wanted my fellow TP 2 owners advice on what would be a good upgrade for moving to an at&t windows phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If this post is moved, it would be because this has absolutely nothing to do with ROM development.
LG phones have been pretty underwhelming in the past. But I haven't seen the Quantum in person, myself. WP7 has already been jail broken, apparently. But the mod community has not traditionally been all that excited about making custom ROMs for LG devices, if I'm not mistaken. Although the scope of this site has been expanding quite a bit recently.

swtaltima said:
Ok so Im sure this will be moved but I wanted my fellow TP 2 owners advice on what would be a good upgrade for moving to an at&t windows phone 7.
I have done some research and believe that the LG Quantum is more to my liking than the HTC Surround or Samsung focus for various reasons starting with the keyboard. I have also found that it offers tethering as well as voice to text which seems to be a cool feature. I have actually held the phone in my hands yesterday and compared to the other wp 7 at&t phones. It will no doubt be a bit different than what Im used to but nevertheless I do like the idea of having the latest and greatest hw and sw.
I am curious if these phones will support Tomtom as I use it all the time. I know that it will have to be jailbroken to load future custom roms but I think I can be patient.
I guess I am just wondering if Im missing something so if you all have any insight I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TomTom will not work on WP7 nor will any other progam for windows mobile. WP7 is totally different and for now has a limited amount of programs and it will probably be awhile before we see third apps like we do for WM6.5. I think they are tryin to make it a closed platform like IPHONE and Android where most the apps will be endorsed by and distributed by Microsoft. I am not sure if there is a version of TomTom yet for WP7 but the one u have now will not run on WP7.

porkenhimer said:
I think they are tryin to make it a closed platform like IPHONE and Android where most the apps will be endorsed by and distributed by Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is fully capable of sideloading applications from sources other than the Android Market, including user made apps, beta software, etc. AT&T is the only carrier that has locked down the ability to sideload on their Android phones. Plus, Google is pretty open to what software they will allow on the Market, unlike Apple.

redpoint73 said:
Android is fully capable of sideloading applications from sources other than the Android Market, including user made apps, beta software, etc. AT&T is the only carrier that has locked down the ability to sideload on their Android phones. Plus, Google is pretty open to what software they will allow on the Market, unlike Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never said u couldn't get third party apps i said that android and iphone want all apps to be endorsed and distributed by them. meaning if someone makes an app they want that app to be cleared for sale or download by them on their market. apple and google only make money off of paid apps if they distribute them and the maker of the app will make more money if their app is distibuted by apple or google cause the apps will all be in one place and easier to find which means they will have a better chance of selling. Microsoft wants to do the same thing by putting the majority of the WP7 apps in one place. the reason they even want free apps is cause the longer u look for apps on their stores the greater chance is you will click on an advertisment which pays them a few cents each time someone click on it. thats how all these companies make money. youtube is the worst but maybe the smartest cause they even put advertisments in their clips. they'll do anything to make a few cents but a cut of the money goes to the person who owns the video too. that is enough to make people wanna put their product on these sites and let them distribute it, money.

porkenhimer said:
i never said u couldn't get third party apps i said that android and iphone want all apps to be endorsed and distributed by them. meaning if someone makes an app they want that app to be cleared for sale or download by them on their market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Putting Android and iPhone in the same category as "closed" is an injustice to Android, and not accurate. Yes, Google would "like" for apps to be endorsed by them, and to make money off of them, but they aren't forcing it like Apple is. There is plenty of 3rd party software available, and incredibly simple to install on Android. iPhone has to be jailbroken/hacked in order to do so. And Apple even tried to make it illegal to jailbreak the iPhone, to prevent loading of apps from sources other then their app store.
There are plenty of Android app stores like Handango and Handmark, which Google has completely allowed separate from their own market. Major developers like Gameloft have started their own Android app stores, instead of using the Android Market, and now its rumored that Amazon will also have their own Android app store. To say that Google is limiting the distribution of Android apps in any way is simply not correct.

HTC 7 Mozart
Hi
I have just upgraded from the TP2 to the HTC 7 Mozart. I am happy with the phone. It seems to work very well. As stated WM 6.5 software isn't transferrable and there are very few options for full navigation software at the moment.
I found the software keyboard very easy to use in landscape and certainly much better than anything I had on WM 6.5. I think that WP7, as an OS, has a very good way of recognising the difference between different type of gestures and it seems to "know" when you've made a mistake typing and corrects almost all mistakes automatically.
I still use my TP2 for work, so I will just leave it in the car for Sat Nav purposes.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking

[Q] ICS 4.0 for Nexus One

Hi,
When do you think we can get ICS 4.0 for Nexus one or there is not chance ever? Thanks in Advance.

We already have two ICS ROMs.

look in the dev section

We will never see an official ICS ROM from Google, but devs have been hard at work, and as both above me said, we have two ICS-based ROMs in the development section of the forum.

bassmadrigal said:
We will never see an official ICS ROM from Google, but devs have been hard at work, and as both above me said, we have two ICS-based ROMs in the development section of the forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Google has labeled the Nexus One dead less than two years after release. Pretty neat, huh? Glad you forked over all of that money for a Google supported Nexus device now?
Not that I'm bitter...

GldRush98 said:
This. Google has labeled the Nexus One dead less than two years after release. Pretty neat, huh? Glad you forked over all of that money for a Google supported Nexus device now?
Not that I'm bitter...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I kinda am. I mean, not even two years has passed since the release of it and they're already officially claiming it dead?
Bull, wait for it, ****.
By th way, GldRush98, what is stock 2.3.6 like on the Nexus? I cannot be arsed to try it out.

GldRush98 said:
This. Google has labeled the Nexus One dead less than two years after release. Pretty neat, huh? Glad you forked over all of that money for a Google supported Nexus device now?
Not that I'm bitter...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On ROM space alone it was already assumed the device would be unsupported. But hey, it lasted twice as long as my G1...

I'm already using ICS rom as daily driver on my N1 (no regrets but for camera). Ref: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1366897

GldRush98 said:
This. Google has labeled the Nexus One dead less than two years after release. Pretty neat, huh? Glad you forked over all of that money for a Google supported Nexus device now?
Not that I'm bitter...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the how fast paced the phones are changing, it really doesn't surprise me that it had a less than 2 year supported life. Look at when the G1 first came out in October of 2008. It had a 528MHz processor with 192MB of RAM and 256MB for the ROM. Then, in just over 14 months, we had the Nexus One which pretty much doubled all the specs there. 1GHz process, 512MB RAM, 512MB ROM, double the screen resolution... Dual cores showed up 1 year later with even larger screen resolutions. And quad cores in phones are just around the corner. The software needs to be rewritten to utilize the extra speed and/or features the new hardware provides, otherwise you are paying for all these extra cores or memory that you will never use.
How long did it take for these jumps in the PC world? 500MHz processor? 1998. 1GHZ? 2000. Dual Core? 2005. Quad? 2007. Phone technology is moving much faster than desktop computers ever did. Plenty of people were pissed when they found out their hardware that was good with Windows 98 didn't work with Windows XP. Same thing happened when Windows Vista and 7 were introduced, and I am sure the same thing will happen when Windows 8 is released. In the equivalent of the PC world, we are trying to take hardware that was released when Windows XP came out and trying to get Windows 7 or 8 to work on it. That is not the easiest thing to do, and even if you pull it off, is it going to have all the same functionality that would be available on a modern machine?
And since it seems that this will mostly come down to space requirements, could you imagine if your Windows 7 install was the same size as Windows XP? When XP was released, 20GB drives were still the norm. Now you install Windows 7 and a modern game, and nearly 20GBs is used. As you upgrade software, you eventually need to upgrade hardware. There is no way around this.
The point is... We had a good run with our devices and they got numerous official upgrades including and spanned across 3 major software versions. I applaud Google for actually supporting their devices much better than any other manufacturer out there.
And now that the official Google updates have sailed away, it is time to turn our phones completely to the dev community. TexasIce and samuaz have done an awesome job trying to get ICS working on our beloved N1. There are only a few things missing for it to be considered a fully working ROM.

bassmadrigal said:
With the how fast paced the phones are changing, it really doesn't surprise me that it had a less than 2 year supported life. Look at when the G1 first came out in October of 2008. It had a 528MHz processor with 192MB of RAM and 256MB for the ROM. Then, in just over 14 months, we had the Nexus One which pretty much doubled all the specs there. 1GHz process, 512MB RAM, 512MB ROM, double the screen resolution... Dual cores showed up 1 year later with even larger screen resolutions. And quad cores in phones are just around the corner. The software needs to be rewritten to utilize the extra speed and/or features the new hardware provides, otherwise you are paying for all these extra cores or memory that you will never use.
How long did it take for these jumps in the PC world? 500MHz processor? 1998. 1GHZ? 2000. Dual Core? 2005. Quad? 2007. Phone technology is moving much faster than desktop computers ever did. Plenty of people were pissed when they found out their hardware that was good with Windows 98 didn't work with Windows XP. Same thing happened when Windows Vista and 7 were introduced, and I am sure the same thing will happen when Windows 8 is released. In the equivalent of the PC world, we are trying to take hardware that was released when Windows XP came out and trying to get Windows 7 or 8 to work on it. That is not the easiest thing to do, and even if you pull it off, is it going to have all the same functionality that would be available on a modern machine?
And since it seems that this will mostly come down to space requirements, could you imagine if your Windows 7 install was the same size as Windows XP? When XP was released, 20GB drives were still the norm. Now you install Windows 7 and a modern game, and nearly 20GBs is used. As you upgrade software, you eventually need to upgrade hardware. There is no way around this.
The point is... We had a good run with our devices and they got numerous official upgrades including and spanned across 3 major software versions. I applaud Google for actually supporting their devices much better than any other manufacturer out there.
And now that the official Google updates have sailed away, it is time to turn our phones completely to the dev community. TexasIce and samuaz have done an awesome job trying to get ICS working on our beloved N1. There are only a few things missing for it to be considered a fully working ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technology always change, but we all loved linux in all this era, for it could still support old/lower end machines without problems.
Since, Android is built on top of linux , in my opinion it is fair to expect a "better" deal.

anubhav77 said:
Technology always change, but we all loved linux in all this era, for it could still support old/lower end machines without problems.
Since, Android is built on top of linux , in my opinion it is fair to expect a "better" deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But hardware can be just as incapable as running the "latest and greatest" in the Linux world. My laptop was only 2 years old when compiz came out and I was never able to run it. Nor any of the advanced graphic features KDE 4 offers. But, you take that now almost 8 year old notebook, and it can still run the latest Linux version out there (I use Slackware and am running 13.37), but I am not able to use all the eye-candy that is available to it.
In fact, I don't really use it for much any more. It struggles playing youtube at resolutions above 360p (and can't do it full screen). And with all the AJAX heavy websites out there, it takes a toll on the system when you have a few tabs open. Essentially, I have turned it into a dev notebook. It is where I do all my web development.
The reality is that Linux will work on most systems, but it may be an extremely stripped and limited version of Linux. Google didn't want to put out a crap version that have people complaining that it can't do something that was advertised with ICS. Also, putting ICS on our phones requires repartitioning the internal memory. I doubt that is something that Google can do with an OTA update. Plus, we have yet to see if they can pull off full hardware acceleration (it has been done with hacks so far, but from my understanding, leads to a larger battery drain). And we have yet to make the camera work.
It would've been nice had Google pulled out their magic fortune-telling ball and given us extra internal memory or a better graphics card. But reading the future is not an easy thing to do. Just like you buying the phone. You bought the phone with the hardware that was in it. It was awesome at the time and seemed to have adequate space, but then google upped the limit of apks to 49MB and apps kept getting bigger and bigger. Suddenly, you were pretty much required to use app2sdext to be able to use all the apps you wanted.
There was no guarantee on how long our phones would get updates, but they have covered three major versions of Android and a ton of minor versions. As far as support goes (especially when you look at the other manufacturers out there), I feel we have nothing to complain about.
Now we leave it in hands like texasice and samuaz so use true geeks can figure out how far we can push this hardware until it becomes so slow and incapable to do standard things... just as my laptop. And that is how you know you have truly used the product to the extent of its useful life