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Hi,
I've got a very strange problem: After replacing the display of my Alpine the 2nd time, the display is just light and yellow when the battery is full.
As the battery level gets lower and lower, the problem disappears.
When the battery is 100% full, there is no way to get a screen (except reset). Everything is just white!
The more lower the battery, the more and quicker are the ways to get a screen: When I call the phone, the phenomen disappers or when I switch on wireless lan or bluetooth.
When battery is ca. at 60% level the display works normal. The phenomen is gone.
My obersvation is:
- The lower the battery, the more is the display working
- The more "power consuming" things (incoming call, activating camera, pressing buttons, wireless LAN, ...) I do, the faster I can get a working display.
First, I hope you can understand my observation and my description.
First question: What could this be in your opinion? It is no software problem as the problem persists over hardresets.
My assumption is: Maybe there's a voltage regulator or a capaciator broken. Or something similar. This means that the voltage level is maybe just a little bit higher than normal, say a few mV. For all other components this does not matter. Except the display.
Can this be true?
At the moment, I can work normally with the PDA iff I just load the battery up to 60%. But as you might guess this is no persistent solution.
In my opinion, I could do two things:
1.) Build something that draws exceptional high power for just a very small time and activate this thing when powering on the device. This would not solve the problem but make the PDA useable again. But: How could I do this?
2.) Better way: Repair. Does anybody have some insight of the hardware? Is there a regulator or something that would explain this phenomen? Where is it and how to replace/repair (Soldering SMD would be no problem).
Thank you very much in advance,
Niki
In need to know the voltage across the diamond standard battery (900mAh) when the battery is fully charged and when the battery is fully discharged (the phone automatically switched off)
Could someone give me this information?
When my battery is low I read 3.2V
When my battery i high I read 4.1V
Is this correct?
That's about right, +-.1
Thanks, I've a lot of problems with the charging and discharging cicles, this information could help me to understand
While which is the charge current when the battery is fully discharged?
For my Diamond it can be very high, up to 800mA (I know it from BatteryStatus), it is a normal value?
wasm said:
While which is the charge current when the battery is fully discharged?
For my Diamond it can be very high, up to 800mA (I know it from BatteryStatus), it is a normal value?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try a program, "PowerGuard", it's a very nice (and free) program developed by Muyz that will give you current and temp info, including graphs with a lot of flexibility in settings. You can get a good feel of where the current draws are. I think charge current is in the area of 700-800mA on initial charge.
Or another called Battlog. It,s better because it logs the measurements - on Powerguard it's difficult to see the actual (current, not in electrical, but in time sense ) measurement.
Thanks I'm going to try them
For now I'm testing Batlog...
This evening I'm going to make a full charging log, so I could post it tomorrow
Could you do the same? This could give me the possibility to compare them
I'm experimenting some problems with the charging circuit
mjaxa said:
Or another called Battlog. It,s better because it logs the measurements - on Powerguard it's difficult to see the actual (current, not in electrical, but in time sense ) measurement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with mjaxa, since your post I've found and installed Battlog. Works great on my Diamond. Very robust program and easy to read the log file or import into excel for analysis.
I have no idea why I didn't find this software when searching for a good battery monitor for my Diamond except I must have not used "log" in my searchs.
Thanx mjaxa.......
JRMX said:
Works great on my Diamond. Very robust program and easy to read the log file or import into excel for analysis.
Thanx mjaxa.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should, of course, also thank Palladium TD now that I've found the source for this fine program.
I'll also add that while the data logging is very good, I found that some of the functions do not work on my Diamond (US ROM 1.93). I know it's a beta program or maybe I just haven't figured it out yet. Using 0.2.3.130 beta I have noted:
No response on the help and other icon on the left side, battery temp read is off by a factor of 10 (noted on the Battlog thread) and cum use (mAh) does not display.
I'll post the comments on the correct thread.
In the following I reported the log of my battery charging cycle in txt and graphic format
If you can post comments or other logs, I'll appreciate
P.s. another bug in Battlog (I'think) is related to the sampling interval, as you can note observing the X axis on my plots: it is not constant in time
No one want help me with a charge/discharge log?
With the holidays I haven't had too much time to work with battlog and the phone use is not typical. I did run about 16 hrs of data and it does give some insight.
Charging overnight looked normal with current draw cycles at 2hr intervals for mail checks.
I was going to upload the excel file, but the format isn't permitted. The txt file is too large. I'll mess with it some more, but I didn't see anything that was unlike your data. 800ma on initial charges, -200ma on using various applications and phone calls, as much as -800ma on internet use and -9 to -20ma on locked standby. I did not see what I'm looking for which is an unexplainable deep discharge, overnight or during the day, I'll keep monitoring.
Yo
heres a brutally simple battery monitor software thingy that graphs your usage and battery level - top graph is mAh usage (15000ms refresh (os updates info every 30 secs)) and bottom graph is battery life (60000ms refresh)
i wrote this thing to monitor my batt usage cause my bat life is utter crap, barely lasts 8 hours with my level of use/cellular climate, which sucks its just a straight up .exe, just copy to where-ever and run it
this version here is so pre-alpha-uber-dev-debug-build its not funny but i thought id put it up for you lot anyway as i have found it useful just to glance at from time to time - there are no user controls, i spazzed this out in a hurry but i intend to improve on it and implement any features you lot might think useful.
best i can get out of my raph with screen on with celluar, gprs and bt ad2p connected is -63mAh - whats the best you can get?
just tryin to put smt back into the community <3
p.s. this is a debug build (i kept getting microsoft error reporting crap on the emulator, so i dunno how itll go on other devices)
p.p.s. i take no responsibility if this bricks your device, sleeps with your wife, sets your house on fire or kills your cat etc etc (but it works ok on my raph
***UPDATED 25.03.09***
SEE POST #9 IN THIS THREAD BELOW
going to try this out soon, loving the simple graph
now i can see whats happening when 40% of my battery dies overnight as i sleep >:O
works good, any way of making it show the current time on the x-axis? or able to scroll left and rigth to see what happened earlier?
and whats the bottom graph for?
07accordEX said:
any way of making it show the current time on the x-axis? or able to scroll left and right to see what happened earlier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
both of these features are on the todo list (which ill put up when i get a moment)
and whats the bottom graph for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
read the initial post.
the top graph shows the past hour of activity (ish, its actually more like 57.5 mins), the bottom graph shows the past 8 hours (ish, more like 7.7hrs).
no data is collected when the device is asleep - and the graph doesnt get updated during these times, so you only see 'active' use in the graphs - i plan to implement some sort of visual cue system to signify times of sleep and also to keep the temporal coherency of the graph more contiguous (lol, e.g. a graphed minute will be 8 pixels wide no matter what).
i believe its impossible to collect data while the device is asleep as afaik when the processor goes to sleep the only part of it that functions is the bit that listens for interrupts (from i.e. the phone management cpu, etc) (and maybe a timer (for alarms etc?)) - if im wrong on these details please enlighten me.
fusi
Nice app I would love to see it becoming more mature, will probably end up with my standard equipment, thanks 12
12aon said:
Nice app I would love to see it becoming more mature, will probably end up with my standard equipment, thanks 12
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, watch this space should have something new up by the weekend
This opens up a blank white page on my phone. Did I do something wrong?
behrouz said:
This opens up a blank white page on my phone. Did I do something wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the graphs dont refresh as soon as you open the app - youll hve to wait for the first update (15 and 60seconds) before anything is rendered - this will be fixed soon.
ok, a bit later than advertised but here is an updated version - fixed most things, still working on scrolling through the history - will add more features in coming days (colour customisation, toggling graph display, scrolling through history, exporting graphs as images, user customisable update intervals, etc)
btw ive added in support for unattended mode - this keeps the cpu alive when the device is asleep - i dont recommend keeping this on unless you are trying to debug unexplained power drain in standby - unattended mode keeps my raph ticking along at -21mAh, when im pretty sure true idle for this handset is more like -4mAh. so yah, not recommended to leave it on
im pretty sure there arent bugs but if you find one please let me know!
enjoy
fusi
fusi said:
ok, a bit later than advertised but here is an updated version - fixed most things, still working on scrolling through the history - will add more features in coming days (colour customisation, toggling graph display, scrolling through history, exporting graphs as images, user customisable update intervals, etc)
btw ive added in support for unattended mode - this keeps the cpu alive when the device is asleep - i dont recommend keeping this on unless you are trying to debug unexplained power drain in standby - unattended mode keeps my raph ticking along at -21mAh, when im pretty sure true idle for this handset is more like -4mAh. so yah, not recommended to leave it on
im pretty sure there arent bugs but if you find one please let me know!
enjoy
fusi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious to know what you think the power consumption caused by this program is. Like you, I get about 21mA drain with the phone screen off - but I'm getting that with your old version. I use S2U2 with the "but only blank screen" option and turned off standby in Windows power management so I think that's effectively putting the phone in unattended mode. Normally (without your program running) I see pretty modest battery drain with the phone in unattended mode. Just off the top of my head I'd say that 5-15% battery drain per hour would be about what I'm used to with zero usage - phone just sitting in my pocket or on a desk in "unattended mode" but just now while running your older EXE my phone went from 65% to about 40% in under an hour while "unattended" (locked, screen off). Looking at the graph for that time period I see a consistent 21mA drain. If 21mAh=25% capacity, I'm in trouble. I know my battery isn't that far out of whack because I get what I'd consider (based on reading other's experiences) pretty normal life out of it. Maybe the drain characteristics for that "portion" of the battery are a little different - I'm not sure whether the capacity is judged solely on capacity minus drain or it figures voltage levels in as well...?
To be clear, I'm basing my sense of normal battery consumption on nothing more than "took it off the charger in the morning, didn't use it all day at work and have ~50% when I get home 9 or ten hours later" so it's anecdotal at best.
I'll keep playing - I love this tool. Maybe I'll be a little more scientific about my testing and see if I'm imagining things.
Hi thanks for posting
if your just turning the screen off, i dont think thats unattended mode, unattended mode actually powers down non essential parts of the device.
if unattended mode is off in the program and your phone goes into standby, it wont consume any battery as when the phone goes into standby everything is shutdown and the cpu pretty much stops functioning (apart from a very small part) - but this also means the historical data and graphs dont get updated . if unattended mode is on and your phone hits that standby timeout, it wont go into standby but unattended mode instead where it just turns off a lot of the non-essential stuff, like voltage to the sd card, the screen, etc - but it keeps the cpu running and the operating system pumping its messages.
i think a chunk of that 21mAh is going to be the operating system - but not all of it - currently the program registers 2 timers with the os, one has a 15second timeout and the other has a 60 second timeout. timers do drain battery, as the cpu keeps having to go 'is it time yet? is it time yet?' ad infinitum.
btw, when i said 'true idle' in my prev post i meant that that is the current used in true standby.
one way to calculate how much current its drawing is to leave your phone running it for 24hours (airplane mode on etc) and see how much its depleted over that time, then do it again without it running. using that information you can figure out how much current its using - i havent done this yet, i cant put the thing down for 5 minutes let alone 24 hours
im currently working on a system that doesnt use timers, it might work, might not if it does i hope to see that 21mAh reduce, but i dont imagine itll go down by that much. there are however loads of optimisations that can be done, and im investigating them atm.
im no battery scientist but as far as battery capacity, i think li-ion batteries judge their capacity by their voltage, from something like 3v up to 4.2v (0% -> 100% [wiki link below]) - i could be wrong on that though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery <-- this is a good informative read.
i dont think the battery is very capacious tbh - any amount of drain and it seems to go down very fast - i think the saving grace of the device is that is consumes minimal power when in standby - on days where im constantly using it heavily, im practically tethered to a power outlet as the battery just drains far too fast - i think the manufacters banked on the assumption that users would mostly have the phone in standby mode for most of the day. i usually use it for music while im at work and have putty sessions open etc, so its always on - i barely get 8 hours use without a charge .
ive noticed with my battery that even though the drain is constant (i.e. 21mAh or 63mAh) the charge level of the battery does not decrease linearly - e.g. ive noticed my phone suddenly start going down and lose 10% in 5 minutes before, and then the charge level would level out and stay at the same capacity for like 10 minutes before starting to go down again - this to me seems a little funny, as if the circuitry reporting the capacity isnt quite accurate - i think there a many factors, including battery temperature, the drain on the battery in mAh (i think a spike of higher drain may cause the battery do the nose-dive-then-level-out thing) - but i also think that the battery just doesnt deplete linearly, it seems to always have lumps and bumps in the graph, no matter how smooth the drain is.
glad you like the app ill be posting an update to it in a week or so.
peace
fusi
I'm not sure what exactly S2U2's "but only blank screen" does, but it leaves me with a 21 mA draw, so it can't be much different from unattended mode. I haven't tried to monitor it in that mode with (for example) an active Wifi connection or a program accessing the SD card to see if that changes things, but as it is it seems to be running the same things your set is.
The only reason I think the capacity calculation must not run off of only the voltage is that it has a definite "learning" capability. I think it must be doing some more complex things behind the scenes in terms of monitoring consumption and recalibrating periodically based on charge and discharge rates. I know I've seen it sit at 99% charging for a (very) disproportionately long time. The only good explanation for that is that it wasn't perfectly calibrated and the battery is still accepting charge at a higher rate than an almost full battery would. I've seen the same behavior in a lot of charge monitoring systems as they "learn" the characteristics of a battery. I guess it could be basing that purely on voltage, but I doubt it. While connected to a charge, the system will report a substantially higher voltage than it will as soon as the charging voltage is disconnected.
I don't know, I'm just kind of thinking aloud here. It would be great if there were a way to poll the power consumption without affecting the power consumption - sort of a Heisenberg's uncertainty problem... I'd really like to know what the power consumption is in unattended mode as well as true standby. Even if you do the 24 hour test you have to assume a lot of things about the battery's initial condition and the accuracy of the meter to arrive at a consumption number (and, like you, I'll never have a day I don't want to putter around with this phone). I suppose if you were really into it you could stick an ammeter between the battery and phone and control for the added loss
It's definitely true that the discharge isn't linear, even given a constant discharge rate. This has to be an artifact of including battery voltage in the capacity calculation. If it was using purely capacity minus usage the relationship would have to be linear.
Anyways, keep up the good work. I love stuff like this, just from an academic standpoint. Practically speaking I'm pretty much tethered to my chargers, too...
hyachts said:
I'm not sure what exactly S2U2's "but only blank screen" does, but it leaves me with a 21 mA draw, so it can't be much different from unattended mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly the case, this setting causes your device to run in unattended mode (backlight off, audio off, wi-fi off, ...)
hyachts said:
I think it must be doing some more complex things behind the scenes in terms of monitoring consumption and recalibrating periodically based on charge and discharge rates. I guess it could be basing that purely on voltage, but I doubt it. While connected to a charge, the system will report a substantially higher voltage than it will as soon as the charging voltage is disconnected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft's reference battery driver for PXA270 CPU is calculating battery percentage based on voltage exclusively. HTC's custom driver for Qualcomm cores seems to have some kind of more advanced logic behind it, but it doesn't work well/smooth.
hyachts said:
I don't know, I'm just kind of thinking aloud here. It would be great if there were a way to poll the power consumption without affecting the power consumption - sort of a Heisenberg's uncertainty problem... I'd really like to know what the power consumption is in unattended mode as well as true standby.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not without external tools, it should be possible to hook up an external multimeter to the battery directly to measure the voltage accurately in standby. Using the battery driver information you can only evaluate it and the evaluation is likely to be pretty rough.
Attached are some charts from my Touch HD...
The battery level graph seems to follow consumption graph very closely.
You can barely notice the resemblance with the voltage graph though.
These charts depict my device's utilization over 2 days, assuming 0 mah consumption when in standby. This assumption is apparently not accurate, as the battery capacity is 1350 mah and only about 1000 mah were utilized. Out of these 48 hours the device was in standby for about 40 hours, so my estimated standby utilization is -350mah/40h => -8.75mah. This doesn't sound reasonable, as according to manufacturers specs, the device is capable of 450h of standby, with 1350mah battery standby consumption should be -1350mah/450h => -3.375mah. I would agree with fusi, that taking manufacturer's estimation errors it should be safe to assume standby consupmption is around -4mah.
40*-4mah=160mah, so I have about -190mah remaining unaccounted for. I blame measurement accuracy for this... IMO, with this degree of inaccuracy, standby consumption can not be accurately estimated and has to be assumed based on manufacturers specs only.
I'm running more tests to reconfirm these observations, but I doubt the results will be extremely different.
For your reference, I get -69mah on Touch HD when idling with minimal backlight level and -27mah in suspended mode.
Change the registry entry as follow:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Controlpanel/Power
FullSate=76,change to 99
HighState=52,to 68
LowState=6
MedState=34,to 26
I don't know, where did you get the changes from?
have you tried it yet?
Maybe the battery can be charged more fully by raising 'FullSate' .
I haven't try it.
probably not.
I dont know what it does, but my values are at 11, 26, 51, 76 so different to yours already..
fards said:
probably not.
I dont know what it does, but my values are at 11, 26, 51, 76 so different to yours already..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really works.
I modified the values when battery is at 100%,
and it became 90% ater reset.
Now continue charging.
that sounds me like the standard winmobile battery indicator per-level threshold...
Perhaps FullSate is the level that WM considers battery is full.
So raising the value could make a deep charge.
have you seen this btw...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=463905
On further playing I think the values are for the power icon levels on the taskbar.
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ControlPanel\Power]
"DynamicChargeicon"=dword:1 ; set to 0 for normal "plugged in" icon when on ac/usb power, set to 1 for blinking battery icon to indicate charging
setting this at 1 makes the plugged in icon flash on and off whilst charging.
avenger2005 said:
Change the registry entry as follow:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Controlpanel/Power
FullSate=76,change to 99
HighState=52,to 68
LowState=6
MedState=34,to 26
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't think so,
changing it to 200 will make the battery try to charge untill it's 200%?
so this means that easily someone can make a virus to make our batteries explode!
not that simple, it's stored in the battery
@avenger2005 can you get your phone to 100% now after charging? how long it's staying there?
anaadoul said:
not that simple, it's stored in the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, that's it exactly. The charging control unit is either inside the battery or inside the phone's hardware. More likely it's inside the battery.
How would you charge the phone when it's switched off and Windows registry settings wouldn't work?
i think its work, used this method from last month and the battery can last 2 hours longer with extra charge reg edit
skycamefalling said:
inside the battery or inside the phone's hardware. More likely it's inside the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for hardware devices that anyone can replace the battery it will be inside the battery it self for sure
it stores the information about the full capacity of the battery (which changes by the passage of time) so imagine if it's on the device itself and bought a new battery. you will get the performance of the old one
maybe iPhone have in the device it self as the battery is not accessable by the enduser
(-1) for iPhone
fards said:
probably not.
I dont know what it does, but my values are at 11, 26, 51, 76 so different to yours already..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the reason peoples values differ because, the phone is clever. if you charge it often, even when it isnt needed, it will use the battery carelessly because it knows a charge is on the way. if u only charge it 2-4 days at a time then it uses the battery more care full. adapting itself to the way the user uses it.
indy.89 said:
the reason peoples values differ because, the phone is clever. if you charge it often, even when it isnt needed, it will use the battery carelessly because it knows a charge is on the way. if u only charge it 2-4 days at a time then it uses the battery more care full. adapting itself to the way the user uses it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is not a human body!
it's a mobile device!
it's never that smart, but what you said was right with the NK batteries (the fact not the explaination)
recharging too often will make the calibration of the battery to be inacurate, while recharging when empty will improve it's performance.
that's it.
for Li-Ion or Li-Pol it's a different story.
cheers
so does this really influence the batterylife?
I've been spending a few days playing around with screen brightness to see exactly what impact it has on battery life. Yesterday I did my usual max brightness, had to go conservative after 5 hours to make it last home [8 hours], as it was pretty much dead.
Today after 11 hours of MUCH more usage [3 hours of screen compared to maybe 1 hour yesterday] on medium brightness, phone was still an epic 54% battery life.
What Im looking for is if it is possible to put a numerical value/ratio of power consumption of the screen at varying brightnesses, and or if this is possible to add into the battery consumption options. I assume there must be some sort of raw power data for the default ROM to work out percentages of power consumption anyway.
Sorry if this is wrong, but I thought it might be a nice challenge for someone with more (>0) skill than me.
EDIT: s***, only typed half the board name
All you need is a multimeter that can measure current. Just run a wire from one battery terminal to the terminal on the phone, then use your multimeter on current mode from one to the other as well. Then you can see what the current draw is with display on low,on high, then immediatly when you sleep the display. Not too tough. If I get some time later tomorrow I might measure it.
http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/test-methods/meters/how-to-measure-current.php
big props to you if you measure with a multimeter and post the results!
anethema said:
All you need is a multimeter that can measure current. Just run a wire from one battery terminal to the terminal on the phone, then use your multimeter on current mode from one to the other as well. Then you can see what the current draw is with display on low,on high, then immediatly when you sleep the display. Not too tough. If I get some time later tomorrow I might measure it.
http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/test-methods/meters/how-to-measure-current.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I REALLY need a multimeter
anethema said:
All you need is a multimeter that can measure current. Just run a wire from one battery terminal to the terminal on the phone, then use your multimeter on current mode from one to the other as well. Then you can see what the current draw is with display on low,on high, then immediatly when you sleep the display. Not too tough. If I get some time later tomorrow I might measure it.
http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/test-methods/meters/how-to-measure-current.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you get anywhere with this?