Database Develop

[Q] Is Captivate/Android Experience for Me?

All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick

by radiation I assume you mean the head tumors

RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rick,
To answer your question - why so much work occurs with Android, I would like to take the liberty of rephrasing the question - why so much work occurs with Android phones? There isnt one correct answer for this.
You are correct in saying that carriers and service providers like to cripple the phone before they hand it over to the consumer. So when you buy the phone you really are not using these wonderful pieces of technology to their fullest extent. Thanks to our developers here at XDA because of whom we can in reality free the phones that we paid much moolah for, so that we maybe able to use all of the fones features that have been designed to work in conjunction with the wonderful Android OS.
Secondly, the reason why so much work goes into the phones and development to improve the functionality of the phone is because that is what Android has been designed for. Consumer can customize the phone to their liking and does not have to get stuck with the proprietary, grid like systems like the ones iphone has. Phone manufacturers, and not just Samsung, obviously design the phones software in such a way so that there is always room for improvement. They bet their dollar on the fact that an average consumer will eventually buy a newer product when its released and marketed in the future. There is always something lacking in the product that is in the market right now and that is where all this work comes into play.
Now, whether you shud buy a samsung captivate or not and what the time requirement is, is totally dependent on what you want to use the phone for and what kind of functionality you would like to get out of it.
From what you said that ur not a person who wud like to spend a lot of time modifying or playing around with your phone, you wud still like the captivate. Samsung Captivate is a very nice phone overall. Its got almost everything that you cud want in a phone. In regards to apps included with the phone, you've got a decent selection along with loads of bloatware.... If there is anything missing you can easily find it on the android market.
If you're expecting that your GPS would work right out of the box, then the answer is, maybe - maybe not. and its not android's fault, its a samsung issue. There are multiple fixes for the GPS that you can find on the forum, that being said, if you plan on utilizing those fixes, like you said not only will you void your warranty but you alone will be venturing into that experiment on your phone and dev will not be responsible for any damage that may or may not happen to your phone. But then again no guts, no glory.
So all in all, if you do end up getting the captivate, i dont think you'll be utterly disappointed, but at the same time i dont think you'll be able to sit back either when you see all these new developments posted here.
Hopefully i helped you a little and if i said too much then i apologize.
I welcome any senior member of the forum to correct me if im wrong and/or make any additions to what ive said above..
happy forumming....

My brother has a Samsung focus. It's buggy as hell, completely counter intuitive, and incomplete. Theres also no apps at all. He has like 3 different crappy youtube apps and sound boards.
And there's no CM7 to one day fix it.
Sent from my Captivate.

anandsamuel,
An excellent response; truly what I was looking for to understand the issues involved regarding Android and SmartPhones. You did not say too much.
I guess I need to start reading so I understand how to root a Captivate!
Rick

Also, that font is irritating to read.

RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok lets slow you down there. first android is linux BASED not linux. there is no need to worry about OS/ device compatibility. the most interaction between the phone and PC are just file copying like through a usb thumb drive.
the next part regarding carriers/updates/samsung. you answered yourself, kinda, and backwards. Samsung didnt blow it.
Google android updates as much as any software does - to make things better.
they release to manufacturers so they can make it work with their hardware.
Samsung released on time, BUT TO THE CARRIERS.
the carriers then take what samsung gave them and add their carrier specific settings (APN ect) and applications (bloatware).
ATT blew the update timeline.
Sometimes manufacturers release their finished product as "source code" untouched by carriers.
the long process is necessary in each step to (attempt) to make a perfect software package that will work with each phone/carrier out of the box for the end user. so it is unfair to say "born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones"
XDA works off of source codes and carrier releases to make our custom updates.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are ways to return your phone without them knowing what you did. dont worry too much about your "voided" warranty.
before i felt comfortable flashing I took about 3 days reading my A$$ off! and currently im off on workers comp. so that was 3 FULL days. even then i had issues and mistakes and my phone was out of service a few nights! but that is part of the fun.
you do not need to be the type of person to constantly update your phone to buy it. tens of thousands of people have this phone on stock firmware and it fully works. the extra effort and time that we here at XDA and cyanogenMOD do is more out of fun, and customization. Many would argue function as well, as we do sometimes fix things *better* than google/samsung/carriers. but things willl *usually* still function on stock even if on a basic level.
you only need to put in as much as you want to get out of it
so timeline,
flashing custom roms/themes PROPERLY - under a week
cutting and pasting roms frankenROMS - under a month or 2
creating - vast back knowlege of programming, ect YEAR(S)
regarding wanting to update often, not every update on XDA to your rom is necessary unles it fixes something you didnt have.
Each Android/Carrier update, would be recomended (or the XDA counterpart) as each new android version (not rom) contains the most updates/fixes. so if you were running a 2.2 (custom or stock) rom it WOULD be worth upgrading to 2.3 when available (custom or stock). but you dont NEED to update your custom rom every couple weeks when they put out their minor update on the same base rom (2.2 for eg.)
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no comment. best regards

Trusselo,
Excellent, thoughtful response; it helped characterize this activity further for me. My concern is now recognized (and conveyed to others...) as not wanting to be required to become a developer to make my involvement with a SmartPhone constructive. Samsung, Android, XDA looks very good to me. As you mentioned, my reading has begun.
Yes, something is not right with my traditional Comic Sans Serif font here; it seems to compress it horizontally, but my aging eyes typically need this font.

[Q] Have you used iPhone and any Android phone?

This is more of an opinion question.
If you weren't into flashing roms, theming, bricking your phones, would you rather own an iPhone or any particular Android phone (please name phone)?
I've never owned an iPhone and I own a Fascinate. Samsung has really pissed me off with the late updates. Verizon has also pissed me off in the bloatware forced on users as well as late updates.
If Verizon put out a Nexus series phone I'd own that to hopefully fix both issues. Unfortunately, no matter how great the devs are on this site, they are not paid to do this and it takes a lot of time and frustration to get out the latest builds based on the latest Android.
However, with iPhone much of this is fixed as Apple has full control over the process. For better or worse.
So, I'm curious that if I wanted a no hassle smart phone, should I consider a different Android phone (as I love Google and its services) or should I just grab the eventual next iPhone?
What's your opinion? (I know this might be a biased location to find opinions.)
P.S. I'm also very interested in the upcoming Xperia Play and Playstation Suite.

Depends. The iPhone is awesome for people who want a generally no-nonsense phone with beautiful and (mostly) well-written and well-controlled applications with wide mainstream support. Android is getting there, but is still a bit behind in that regard. However, it got to that point by having a super-tight ecosystem that is very unfriendly for customisations, at least to the degree you get with Android.
If you jailbreak it, you'll be playing the same waiting game since you'll have to wait for the iPhone Dev Team to release tools to exploit vulnerabilities. If you unlock the phone, upgrading before waiting could even be dangerous, as baseband developments normally take much longer.
Give it a try, see if you like it. If you don't, trade or re-sell; they don't lose value that quickly.

cnunez1987 said:
Depends. The iPhone is awesome for people who want a generally no-nonsense phone with beautiful and (mostly) well-written and well-controlled applications with wide mainstream support. Android is getting there, but is still a bit behind in that regard. However, it got to that point by having a super-tight ecosystem that is very unfriendly for customisations, at least to the degree you get with Android.
If you jailbreak it, you'll be playing the same waiting game since you'll have to wait for the iPhone Dev Team to release tools to exploit vulnerabilities. If you unlock the phone, upgrading before waiting could even be dangerous, as baseband developments normally take much longer.
Give it a try, see if you like it. If you don't, trade or re-sell; they don't lose value that quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite opposite, really. For most Android users, being rooted means having the latest update, while for iPhoneys, it means you are well behind. And look, they have to wait 'til iOS 4.3 to get a slight modicum of notification right.

And sorry Droid1 owners, we’re dropping support for you.

We’ve been hard at work on CM9 since Google released Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) into the wild last month, and things are slowly starting to come together. Google did a great job with ICS and added some really awesome features which in some cases replace or deprecate functionality that we had in CM7, so we are reevaluating all of our customizations. A number of devices are already up and running with CM9, and the focus is currently on getting as many devices ready as we can. The first devices (besides the Nexus S, which you can already get from Koush’s section on ROM Manager) that we’ll have ready will mostly likely be devices based on OMAP4, MSM8660/7X30, and Exynos. We also have some Tegra2 tablets in the pipeline such as the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and Asus Transformer. Our goal is to provide continued support to all CM7 devices back to the QSD8250 series of devices such as the Nexus One. I don’t want to make any promises at this time, but that is the plan. And sorry Droid1 owners, we’re dropping support for you. Time to upgrade.

What do you recommend if we have to keep our Droid1?!?
I have no philosophical problem with the Droid1 not having the latest and greatest CM ROM. I can get along without CM7 on the Droid1, since I will be going that way with my Droid Bionic "real soon now". (I'm kinda, sorta, used to this class of support, since I have about 6 Win XP/Pro boxes and a SBS 2003 server here on my SOHO network. All the current best boxes for me and my digital nerds are dual booted running top end Win7 and several flavors of Linux.
So, what is the last build that we should use, how long will it be supported and will security fixes be available?
Thanks,
/s/ BezantSoft

aoidcool said:
And sorry Droid1 owners, we’re dropping support for you. Time to upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you plan to make this seem official... How? If the CyanogenMod developers actually said that, I might have a few unkind remarks about forced hardware upgrades to share.
For the record, I am not complaining about the lack of official CM9 support, the fact that ICS on the Droid1 would likely be a slow/buggy/needless upgrade, or anything along those lines.
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
Until a developer phone appears that meets my stingy requirements, I will continue using my Droid and experimenting with Linux software on it. I only wish that waiting for other people to do what I should be doing was easier, secure in my knowledge that someone else in the world cares about the same things I care about. What can I say, I'm lazy.
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.

gTan64 said:
And you plan to make this seem official... How? If the CyanogenMod developers actually said that, I might have a few unkind remarks about forced hardware upgrades to share.
For the record, I am not complaining about the lack of official CM9 support, the fact that ICS on the Droid1 would likely be a slow/buggy/needless upgrade, or anything along those lines.
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
Until a developer phone appears that meets my stingy requirements, I will continue using my Droid and experimenting with Linux software on it. I only wish that waiting for other people to do what I should be doing was easier, secure in my knowledge that someone else in the world cares about the same things I care about. What can I say, I'm lazy.
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That first post is a quote from the cm blog. So it is 100% true.
VISION 1.5Ghz

I think a kang will show up sooner or later. There are plenty of other interesting OMAP3 devices (Nook Color for one) which should get ports, and OMAP3 doesn't have to lose 60-100MB of RAM to the radio, so with compcache and good tuning 256MB might actually be enough.
It really depends on if OMAP3 HW accell can work fully under ICS. If the Nook Color runs well, so should the Droid...

gTan64 said:
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so your complaint has nothing to do with software development, but with handset manufacturers. What does that have to do with CM saying they won't support what amounts to a 1st gen device?
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but you do have a choice. either upgrade, or you're stuck with whatever they've already built.

:|
Well, someone'll port ics to this 3 year old POS i'm stuck with for another year.
I'd rather have a current os that doesn't run well than a outdated os that does.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk

Mr. Argent said:
I'd rather have a current os that doesn't run well than a outdated os that does.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why????
Sent from my VS910 4G using xda premium

Having no money for a off-contract phone and not being able to upgrade for a year, I have to do something to keep my original droid usable for a year. I find knowing there's a major update available and not getting it due to hardware issues annoying when the g1 got it (even if it was a laggy mess, at least it's not 2.3), which impacts it being what I consider usable.
(Also, I don't want ics launcher. Beneath the veneer of modernity it's still that stale old gingerbread.)
Sent from my nook tablet (eagerly awaiting a bootloader workaroiubd and ics) using Tapatalk.

Mr. Argent said:
Having no money for a off-contract phone and not being able to upgrade for a year, I have to do something to keep my original droid usable for a year. I find knowing there's a major update available and not getting it due to hardware issues annoying when the g1 got it (even if it was a laggy mess, at least it's not 2.3), which impacts it being what I consider usable.
(Also, I don't want ics launcher. Beneath the veneer of modernity it's still that stale old gingerbread.)
Sent from my nook tablet (eagerly awaiting a bootloader workaroiubd and ics) using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in the same boat as you, I have no upgrade for a year. so i'm stuck with my D1. and i agree with your other statement a g1 can handle it yet no one is making an attempt in porting it to the D1 on top of that a 6 year old htc windows mobile phone has it with like 134mb of ram. and yet the droid still has no port whatsoever

Game over tab 8.9?

Samsung will likely release a next gen tab in Barcelona. Will this mean minimal support for our tab?
I was a big defender of android for 2 years. But i have had it. Will switch over to iphone 5 and ipad 3. Our tab rom from Samsung is suboptimal to say the least. Still no ICS. App quality still sucks for business, science, musicians etc. Improvement too slow. I thought differently 6 months ago but now it seems we can not catch up to Apple ecosystem.
I am just trying to make a rational decision, no ideological arguments.
I know I know...go ahead, hit me...
cheers
chris

There's a couple of nice ICS roms over in the development forum, I'm using the latest Galaxian Soup alpha and it's awesome.

I agree.. I'm feeling frustrated from lag and the low support from my device. Yes Apple taking the full control for IOS.. But I realise that its for good.....
Sent from my GT-P7300 using XDA App

I am still not sold on the iOS

here at the WEF
I also need to admit that I am in a bad mood right now...which prompted me to start this thread.
I am here in Davos at the wef. looking around I see only ipads. the special wef app on my tab 8.9 fcs all the time, looks terribly designed and can not be used in landscape on the tablet!
on the ipad the same app looks great andworks in landscape. that just fuelled my anger....

MelFranks said:
There's a couple of nice ICS roms over in the development forum, I'm using the latest Galaxian Soup alpha and it's awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
None of the roms for the 8.9 seem to display hdmi out correctly or have other significant issues.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk

SGSChris said:
I also need to admit that I am in a bad mood right now...which prompted me to start this thread.
I am here in Davos at the wef. looking around I see only ipads. the special wef app on my tab 8.9 fcs all the time, looks terribly designed and can not be used in landscape on the tablet!
on the ipad the same app looks great andworks in landscape. that just fuelled my anger....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well but that ain't really androids or samsungs fault. if someone designs a crappy app for android and a well working app for ios then of course it will look better on ios....
as for support. the older iphones aren't getting any updates and ipad1 is missing out on a lot of features that the ipad2 got via software. so it aint like android is all bad and ios is all good.
that being said, yeah samsung is being slow releasing stuff and touchwizz is bloated crap. they should try and please people releasing updates as fast as possible instead of bloating them and making them slower.

I've only owned my sgt 8.9 for a month and I think th nhardware is fantastic and going from iphone 3-4s and my wifes ipad 2 to this android and samsung show they can pull it off better than apple in most ways.... But.....
Time between releases isn't practical, the features of true clean android os (no samsung excess besides ebook) are fantastic but samsung kill it with touchwiz and excess compulsary samsung apps, and the market is great but also it's own worst enemy. (but we cant do anything about that because its un-regulated so to speak). Been muking around with custom roms and my hats off to the develooers as they're are really trying to polish up and bring us the best experience possible but they're relying on samsung to continue support but sadly they just are developing enough for our developers to improve on.
It's sad when a combination of 2 great products with both ability, style and funding can't bring it together and focus on fewer models or realeases to perfect something thats already almost there and really flex there muscles in the face of the competition.
Sent from my GT-P7300 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk

jpbutler said:
None of the roms for the 8.9 seem to display hdmi out correctly or have other significant issues.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true, I suppose it really depends upon what you are using the tablet for.

pseudoheld said:
well but that ain't really androids or samsungs fault. if someone designs a crappy app for android and a well working app for ios then of course it will look better on ios....
as for support. the older iphones aren't getting any updates and ipad1 is missing out on a lot of features that the ipad2 got via software. so it aint like android is all bad and ios is all good.
that being said, yeah samsung is being slow releasing stuff and touchwizz is bloated crap. they should try and please people releasing updates as fast as possible instead of bloating them and making them slower.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree, but that is why we need to consider the whole ecosystem that generates design standards, a sense of esthetics and professionalism and coolness...
samsung seems to push new bricks with better technology at a frantic speed but this does not improve usability. they are bad at engaging users and are terrible on the softwareside. It also seems that the ios ecosystem has the more demanding users that care less about tech and custom roms but overall usability.
I have my tab now for 5 months, there has not been a release of any appropriate rom by samsung for a 600$ Tablet! not acceptable...and my sgs i9000 is also not supported anymore by samsung...

I have an 8.9 and I feel your pain as well. I want Android to work out but it seems the manufacturers are only interested in the initial sale of the item, after that support dwindles quickly. Compare this to Apple who understands that your building a relationship with your customer. I think it sucks that the Kindle Fire has better support then the Galaxy Tab and most honeycomb devices.
App support with Android is poor at best. When compatibility has to be reviewed for each device by the developer (Hello hulu, netflix, & Gameloft!), you have a poor ecosystem. A number of really good games avail on the iPad do not even have Android the radar.
Still, I hang in there, because I don't like Apples restrictive system. Hoping manufacturers & developers will get on board and fix things. If it doesn't change in the next year though, I'm out and going back to iPad, because at the end of the day I want to use my device not hack it.

I can understand the frustration fully. I have an LG Optimus S, and my wife just upgraded off her Samsung Moment. Sometimes, vendor support for the latest version of android is minimal at best. In contrast, Apple EOLs their hardware, and there is no coming back from that. Every hardware update/major version release sees the previous oldest supported platform unsupported. Additionally, even the previous version sees missing features on the software side (ref iphone 4 + siri) that hafe been proven to run on the older platform.
Atleast with android, you can rely on strong dev communities to build new versions of the software in a timely manner. All weekend I ran the ICS alpha/beta and it is very nice!

I like my tab mainly for the size and form, and for 360 dollars it was a deal. It doesn't work any better them my Acer A500, which is more use full in the long run. Anyways my first android was the Samsung Moment which was terrible, htc hero, evo, nexus s, Acer A100, Acer A500, nook color, I pad 2, and now this 8.9. So I have had a lot of experience and I can surely say this is my last android mobile device. I'm tired of being a lab rat for these half baked devices all has had major problems. I don't want to have to rely on developers to fix things. I have only kept the I pad for a month and couldn't live without Google's services, but now I'm over it. Until they get more control over these manufactures to provide updates in a timely manor and manufactures fix their hardware I don't see a reason to stay. I guess the flexibility of android comes at a price and we all get burned.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk

This is a really interesting thread, because it portrays what I think would be a very different opinion versus if you asked the same question other in the dev board. And the different demographics involves paralleled a conversation I had the other day at work.
I am a complete Android head - half the appeal for me is tinkering with the thing. I see that as normal - no, actually I see that as a big part of the experience. I hate the iPad because it is so rigidly locked down in every respect. I had an iPad, but found it stifling and could get on with it even jailbroken.
I was shocked, however, when a girl at work gave a ten minute scathing diatribe on Android based on her experience with a low end Samsung phone. "But that was a low end Android phone!" I said. "It was bound to be slow and clunky. That's not a fair assessment of Android to base it on that experience. Plus, even if it was underpowered hardware, you probably could still have found a ROM for it out there that'd solve most of the problems you were having".
She didn't care. She just wanted the thing to work out of the box and her eyes glazed over when I started talking about ROMs.
It was a new perspective for me and I find myself recommending devices differently now. Time was I would have recommended the GT 8.9 unequivocally. The form factor plus hardware (in my opinion) beats anything else currently on the market. And I'd put my ICS equipped 8.9 up against any iPad in terms of user experience and I'd say it comes out on top. However, if you want a tablet that you get out of the box and use, it's not this one. The stock Samsung Android install is an abortion and unless you are happy to tweak (or have a family member who'll do it for you) it's not the device for you.
And therein lies the problem with 99% of Android devices on the market. Until vendors get over this need to differentiate their devices by adding layer after layer of bloat on top of Android, Android will continue to play second fiddle to iOS in terms of the user experience - even if that iOS user experience is rigidly controlled and prevents you from doing basic things like moving an icon a couple of spaces away from another.

I never had a problem with android until I lost my nexus one. Then I entered the world of other manufacturers devices. So far they all suck. HTC has the ****ty looking sense the I dare to define a great punch in the face to good design, Samsung is notoriously known for making good hardware but not giving a crap about the software, I'm not sure why this is, why they think that the software is not as important to the device. My next try will be with Asus, they seem to update their software on top of having decent hardware. This in regard of tablets for phones, i'll switch to a nexus device as soon as my HTC dies or the galaxy nexus comes to t-mobile.
I went through apple and i dont like the company. First of all i'm forced most of the time at work to use imacs to work on visual effects, i dont know where studio owners get their facts, but those machine sucks for production! They are designed for customers not professionals, they have the guts of a laptop and none of the benefits. Then i have a macbook that gave me nothing but hardware problems for 3 years, an iphone 4 that i can't use because its super locked to at&t and i used to have an ipod touch which died unexpectedly during a vacation. The only apple stuff i'm kinda happy about are my two ipods that still survive (and yet do not allow, me to officially get my music out of them).
So as you can see I'm fed up with apple and their shady hardware, they killed all the great professional stuff they had (shake, final cut pro, quicktime pro, apple servers and raids) and i don't think osx has any advantage over windows anymore either.
There are two faces to every coin, but I'm sure one day I will find a good tablet/phone/computer maker for my needs, it's just a trial and error job.
Good luck with Apple I hope you'll be more lucky than me!

Loccy said:
It was a new perspective for me and I find myself recommending devices differently now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nice post mate. i totally agree with you and half the fun for me with android is the messing about and tweaking stuff. the only android phones i would recomend without thinking twice are the nexus series (because they are bloat free) and the s2 because its just and awesome device. but yeah if you have something more "consumerish" and don't feel like messing around with it you aren't gonna have the nices experience.
for the technologically unprepaired person an iProduct is probably better because it just works as they think it should (even though its awefully restrained and restricted)
DBBGBA said:
I never had a problem with android until I lost my nexus one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm still running my n1 and loving it
as for apple machines for production...i have a lot to do in the video sector and we use macpros with final cut (7 not x )
i must say they are awesome machines but also have a few downsides.
they are friggin expensive (as everything apple)
they are not the error free devices everyone thinks they are. only last month we had 2 graphics cards dying 1 hdd giving up and 2 OS corruptions. so the myth about apple products not breaking down is...a myth!
so yeah if you are prepared to tinker i would go with android all the way. if you are my mum or someone else that just wants to USE something and not get involved with it...then i guess the i is the way to go.

I showed my stock skyrocket when I first bought it, she didn't even wanted to look.
Then I installed my preferred launcher (Launcher 7) and custom roms, lots of small tricks and clean ups (hid all the extra apps like Ti Backup, Root Explorer, etc.) and let the Windows Phone 7 interface dominate with big Twitter and Facebook buttons, Big camera and email button, weather. She was sold. She played with it while I was watching tv for a good while.
If the iPhone 5 will feature yet another 3.5" display, I'll take your phone no problem, she said.
I think the Android Interface, esp. the launcher, the widget handling, etc. leaves a lot to be desired. WP7 less is more approach works for some.

RipplingHurst said:
WP7 less is more approach works for some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree in fact I'm very curious to try one WP7 device for a while and maybe start suggesting that instead of iphones.

SGSChris said:
Samsung will likely release a next gen tab in Barcelona. Will this mean minimal support for our tab?
I was a big defender of android for 2 years. But i have had it. Will switch over to iphone 5 and ipad 3. Our tab rom from Samsung is suboptimal to say the least. Still no ICS. App quality still sucks for business, science, musicians etc. Improvement too slow. I thought differently 6 months ago but now it seems we can not catch up to Apple ecosystem.
I am just trying to make a rational decision, no ideological arguments.
I know I know...go ahead, hit me...
cheers
chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need an application that you cannot live without then go with ipad. You might be prepared that new ipad3 will blow ipad2 away but this is a bout making more and more money.
I was with Apple before Android. Now I am proud not following the iCrowd.
After stripping all bloatware and services my Sammy serves me well.
In regards to ICS I tried it on Xoom and didn't see anything vitally important.
It seems that in one year every piece of hardware becomes largely irrelevant and in two obsolete.

its still fck alpha so whats the point here??
---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------
qhinton said:
I like my tab mainly for the size and form, and for 360 dollars it was a deal. It doesn't work any better them my Acer A500, which is more use full in the long run. Anyways my first android was the Samsung Moment which was terrible, htc hero, evo, nexus s, Acer A100, Acer A500, nook color, I pad 2, and now this 8.9. So I have had a lot of experience and I can surely say this is my last android mobile device. I'm tired of being a lab rat for these half baked devices all has had major problems. I don't want to have to rely on developers to fix things. I have only kept the I pad for a month and couldn't live without Google's services, but now I'm over it. Until they get more control over these manufactures to provide updates in a timely manor and manufactures fix their hardware I don't see a reason to stay. I guess the flexibility of android comes at a price and we all get burned.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is soooo true... despite to the fact how much i hate apple as company...
---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------
Adapt0r said:
If you need an application that you cannot live without then go with ipad. You might be prepared that new ipad3 will blow ipad2 away but this is a bout making more and more money.
I was with Apple before Android. Now I am proud not following the iCrowd.
After stripping all bloatware and services my Sammy serves me well.
In regards to ICS I tried it on Xoom and didn't see anything vitally important.
It seems that in one year every piece of hardware becomes largely irrelevant and in two obsolete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like to use half finished products just not to follow the iCrowd than i am sorry for u... just that.

Crappy firmware rant

I'm not sure if I can blame this on the race-to-market state that the industry is in but there are a lot of
poorly performing phones being released. Manufacturers rush to release new products without doing
the necessary development tests. Product testing has been moved form the lab to the customer base.
Take the case of the Nexus 4.
I read an article where an HTC Droid DNA user was complaining how HTC is slow to release the latest
Android OS and he decided it was time to make the switch to Nexus because he can't wait for updates.
But do Nexus users really get the best experience?
Nexus devices often use inferior hardware to cut the cost and I have no complaints here - I love the fact
that the Nexus4 costs almost half as much as the Droid DNA. But what about software?
I will give it to Google and LG for releasing a phone where at least everything works, some companies
don't go that far. But the Nexus4 currently works below it's potential. The firmware is buggy and not
optimized for best performance.
- The camera uses the same sensor as the LG Optimus 2X but produces much noisier pictures.
- The autofocus doesn't work that great.
- The screen colors are dialed in to a yellowish hue
- The microphone gain is way too high a distorts easy
There are a lot more annoyances but note that I only listed items that can easily be adjusted. With the
proper equipment it should take just a few hours to calibrate the phone so it works to it's highest
potential. Which makes me wonder whether calibration was done poorly or not at all.
Some argue that Google releases source code and unlocks their devices for independent developers to
adjust to their liking. But developers don't have the type of testing equipment that the manufacturer has
and even with the source code available it could be impossible to figure out how to control hardware modules
without the corresponding documentation. Developers tend to work in the dark most of the time.
Not sure what point I'm driving to here, I'm just frustrated. I'm realizing that I want a device where everything
works great at release time so I don't have to wait for kernel fixes. I wonder when (or if) LG and Google will
address these and how that reflects on the entire phone industry.

4.2 was obviously rushed, as was illustrated by the lack of December in the calendar. That can be fixed in time.
As regards hardware, I totally get where you're coming from. In order to make a decent profit on the handhelds, it's pretty clear that LG cut some corners in everything from components (some) to quality control. Is there a blasted thing that can be done about it from our end? No. But, we have a pretty freakin' awesome phone for $300-$350 with the latest Android. It's a tradeoff. Take it or leave it.

-Mindroid- said:
I'm not sure if I can blame this on the race-to-market state that the industry is in but there are a lot of
poorly performing phones being released. Manufacturers rush to release new products without doing
the necessary development tests. Product testing has been moved form the lab to the customer base.
Take the case of the Nexus 4.
I read an article where an HTC Droid DNA user was complaining how HTC is slow to release the latest
Android OS and he decided it was time to make the switch to Nexus because he can't wait for updates.
But do Nexus users really get the best experience?
Nexus devices often use inferior hardware to cut the cost and I have no complaints here - I love the fact
that the Nexus4 costs almost half as much as the Droid DNA. But what about software?
I will give it to Google and LG for releasing a phone where at least everything works, some companies
don't go that far. But the Nexus4 currently works below it's potential. The firmware is buggy and not
optimized for best performance.
- The camera uses the same sensor as the LG Optimus 2X but produces much noisier pictures.
- The autofocus doesn't work that great.
- The screen colors are dialed in to a yellowish hue
- The microphone gain is way too high a distorts easy
There are a lot more annoyances but note that I only listed items that can easily be adjusted. With the
proper equipment it should take just a few hours to calibrate the phone so it works to it's highest
potential. Which makes me wonder whether calibration was done poorly or not at all.
Some argue that Google releases source code and unlocks their devices for independent developers to
adjust to their liking. But developers don't have the type of testing equipment that the manufacturer has
and even with the source code available it could be impossible to figure out how to control hardware modules
without the corresponding documentation. Developers tend to work in the dark most of the time.
Not sure what point I'm driving to here, I'm just frustrated. I'm realizing that I want a device where everything
works great at release time so I don't have to wait for kernel fixes. I wonder when (or if) LG and Google will
address these and how that reflects on the entire phone industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anddddddd, another whiner..... N4 is a great phone that came out just 2 months ago!!!! It will only get better!!! If you don`t like yours just sell it and head over to the FRUIT store

I don't understand .... You saying that phones like Samsung or apple are bugles?
1. ICS update for gs2. OMG battery drain was stupendous , even though Samsung released update after a month or son it took even longer on carrier based devices
2. IPhone there was an issue with WiFi or so
Fixed within few weeks
3. Nexus 4 - December bug fixed before December (I cant imagine update coming through on devices modified by network operators
It might seem that OEM devices are flawless bout you couldn't be more wrong . they have bugs but not ones that you see at first glance and trust me they take much longer to fix as less people notice them
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

MattSkeet said:
I don't understand .... You saying that phones like Samsung or apple are bugles?
1. ICS update for gs2. OMG battery drain was stupendous , even though Samsung released update after a month or son it took even longer on carrier based devices
2. IPhone there was an issue with WiFi or so
Fixed within few weeks
3. Nexus 4 - December bug fixed before December (I cant imagine update coming through on devices modified by network operators
It might seem that OEM devices are flawless bout you couldn't be more wrong . they have bugs but not ones that you see at first glance and trust me they take much longer to fix as less people notice them
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great point, and one of the main reasons to have a Nexus device.

Nothings perfect bro look at apple maps
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

Problems like battery drain and Maps take a long time to debug and fix. It's still
unacceptable but understandable.
Offset colors on a screen should take minutes to adjust with the proper equipment.
Seriously! It should be done right the first time. I'm reading on here that small problems
with the Galaxy Nexus were never fixed.

BigDig said:
Anddddddd, another whiner..... N4 is a great phone that came out just 2 months ago!!!! It will only get better!!! If you don`t like yours just sell it and head over to the FRUIT store
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So because he has legitimate complaints about a device he purchased, he must not voice them and go buy an iPhone? Do you realize how dumb that sounds? Just wanted to point that out.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda premium

-Mindroid- said:
I'm not sure if I can blame this on the race-to-market state that the industry is in but there are a lot of
poorly performing phones being released. Manufacturers rush to release new products without doing
the necessary development tests. Product testing has been moved form the lab to the customer base.
Take the case of the Nexus 4.
I read an article where an HTC Droid DNA user was complaining how HTC is slow to release the latest
Android OS and he decided it was time to make the switch to Nexus because he can't wait for updates.
But do Nexus users really get the best experience?
Nexus devices often use inferior hardware to cut the cost and I have no complaints here - I love the fact
that the Nexus4 costs almost half as much as the Droid DNA. But what about software?
I will give it to Google and LG for releasing a phone where at least everything works, some companies
don't go that far. But the Nexus4 currently works below it's potential. The firmware is buggy and not
optimized for best performance.
- The camera uses the same sensor as the LG Optimus 2X but produces much noisier pictures.
- The autofocus doesn't work that great.
- The screen colors are dialed in to a yellowish hue
- The microphone gain is way too high a distorts easy
There are a lot more annoyances but note that I only listed items that can easily be adjusted. With the
proper equipment it should take just a few hours to calibrate the phone so it works to it's highest
potential. Which makes me wonder whether calibration was done poorly or not at all.
Some argue that Google releases source code and unlocks their devices for independent developers to
adjust to their liking. But developers don't have the type of testing equipment that the manufacturer has
and even with the source code available it could be impossible to figure out how to control hardware modules
without the corresponding documentation. Developers tend to work in the dark most of the time.
Not sure what point I'm driving to here, I'm just frustrated. I'm realizing that I want a device where everything
works great at release time so I don't have to wait for kernel fixes. I wonder when (or if) LG and Google will
address these and how that reflects on the entire phone industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....
frustrated with what?
I turn my phone on it comes on. I dial a number it calls it. I go to a web page it loads it. I stream music is streams it.
Your issue is you seem to think your little bubble of the world applies to everyone. My Phone does not have a yellowish tint. I don't use the microphone. So I don't care about distortion with it. The camera looks fine to me. But then again I aint a photo junkie. Altho if I was I'd use my Nikkon camera, not my phone....
You see, I get a nexus, and android, so that I can tinker. I can create. I can remove, I can improve. I can have the newest and latest.
You seem to get one because? I don't know what you got on for. Cause these things seem lost on you....
Do as others say, Sell it, make an extra hundy, and go get something else.....

OK you're not happy but these threads go nowhere and you can see that already so will stop it now.
Thread closed.