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I never thought id see the day, but it seems that developers are now favoring the iphone. The app store is growing considerably and less efforts are made for windows mobile. Let us take Shaznam, sky by mobile, facebook, myspace, ebay etc - all have fast dedicated iphone apps that take advantage of its display, yet the diamond for example has a higher resolution sreen, but (in the case of facebook) is left with terrible alternatives (such as faceimobiliser). Developers are embrasing iphone and leaving windows mobile behind. This depresses me and makes the future of windows mobile uncertain.
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Apple and VC's have put a lot of funding into iphone apps development. Then when an app has been created the developer can sell it from the app store, a place with many eyes peering.
I'm not aware of any funding or app store equivelant for windows mobile. Which is a shame.
As a developer myself I can see the appeal for developing for the iphone.
don't you worry. as long xda-dev is here....
i think the reason is the growing number of iPhone users and the potential market for iP software. as for the quality of the software....they'll have to work hard for years to get where we, the wm users are.
Re
I agree, but what has this to do with the diamond, is the general chat not a better forum for this topic...
swiftgs said:
I agree, but what has this to do with the diamond, is the general chat not a better forum for this topic...
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I'll tell you why. Because the Diamond is the most fully fledged windows mobile device that is comparable to the iphone. The iphone gets brilliant apps such as facebook, myspace and more yet the diamond, while able to run apps of this quality, is left out. Yes the facebook app vexes me most, its so freaking awesome on the iphone, I would love to have facebook alerts on my diamond while being able to view pictures full screen on that gorgeous vga screen. The technology of the diamond is being wasted...
Unfortunately, I must concur with you there. It looks to me that WM is facing a dead end, because of performance issues and speed. Using Internet is still an issue and there are a lot of instances when some apps are crashing when installed on such device. Yahoo! Go for example is one of them. MS needs to spend more time and money on teir OS or face the extinction. It's a shame that Diamond looks second rate to iPhone, because of OS problems.
There are MANY iphones in the world, yet in comparison there are VERY FEW Diamonds (or WM phones with VGA screens).
WM7 is the future though.
With Apple's iPhone hype, lots of attention has been drawn to that platform. Many developers want to get on that hype to get some attention right now. However, as the hype passes, I think only real quality programs on the iPhone will have a future, just as only real quality programs are being developed for WM right now.
I think it might not be the Apple platform we should be very affraid for, but possibly the upcoming Android platform, which might get the best of both worlds.
What ever, I would rather die than getting a fruityphone.
fruitphone SUCKS
Remember second best they are!!!!!!!!!!
Im sorry im gonna do this on every fruityphone thread, I just despise the damm fruit.
ok heres the deal
ok so there are 2 reasons that not as many developers are making stuff for win mo as we would like (im a developer by the way) so..
the first reason is that there is no uniformity between windows mobile phones and pocket pcs for instance i have a diamond with:
530mhz cpu
16mb graphics card that developers cant use
192mb of memory (64 of which is not available to use)
a g-sensor
640 by 480 screen
gps hardware
touch scrollwheel and lightsensor with 2 cams
one of my friends got a phone a few weeks ago just before the diamond came out a tytn II (kasier) now its a great phone still but it only has:
400mhz cpu
128mb of memory
320 by 240 screen
gps hardware
lightsensor with 2 cams
now as a dev what do i do?
do i make a great game for the diamond?
do i spend more time and let the project quality suffer by making sure it runs on at least 100 differnt winmo phones?
do i make a game that runs at only 320 by 240 and dosnt use anything new and just hope that all phones from now on can run it?
that is the one thing that the iphone has over us (it may be a very mediocre phone and a crappy gaming/entertainment device but they are all the same) and until this has been rectified we will keep loseing devs to the iphone
BUT something big is going to be happening when windows mobile 7 comes out early next year things will change windows mobile 7 imposes some hardware restrictions to hardware makers these being:
640 by 480 screen rez as a minimum (that must support touch)
16mb graphics hardware that must have fully unlocked drivers for devs
256mb ram as a minimum
512mb rom minimum
tilt sensor is optional but must be compatible with windows mobile 7s tilt api
gps is optional but must be compatible with windows mobile 7s gps api
(gps and tilt are not required but if it has one it must be compatibal with winmo7 by doing this it means that any game that uses a tilt sensor will be able to work on any device with one)
and the biggest one is it must have as a minimum a 600mhz arm11 cpu
all these things will change the way devs make apps and games for winmobile it means that anything made for any winmo7 phone will run on any other winmo7 phone at the same min speed and other than that it will be like a pc game may have low mid and high settings incase you have a 32mb graphics card but they also know that you will have to have a 16mb card at the min
nvidias Tegra is going to be an all in one chip with a 600 or 800mhz arm 11 cpu a 16mb gfx card and image and video decoders all biult in anything that uses this will be fully winmo7 compliant
end rant lol and for anyone that actually bothers to read all of this good job
bump for discussion..
will win mobile 7 be available to usage on the diamond as well ? i'm curious about this and i haven't found any info on this.
on-topic: it's funny how i chose the diamond over the iPhone. my decision relied mostly on the customization abilities of this phone and here i was not thinking of windows mobile since this is my first pocket pc. i was astonished by the sheer posibilities you can find inside such a phone and all available no thanks to the curtesy of the producers but of users like you and me and all the others. i think that as long as we'll be around, so will the developers, because even i could be one if i wanted too, especially cause i just bought a winmobile device that i'm happy with. so it's all about will.
darthbane2k said:
I never thought id see the day, but it seems that developers are now favoring the iphone. The app store is growing considerably and less efforts are made for windows mobile. Let us take Shaznam, sky by mobile, facebook, myspace, ebay etc - all have fast dedicated iphone apps that take advantage of its display, yet the diamond for example has a higher resolution sreen, but (in the case of facebook) is left with terrible alternatives (such as faceimobiliser). Developers are embrasing iphone and leaving windows mobile behind. This depresses me and makes the future of windows mobile uncertain.
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Kid, you already made a thread about this same topic, stop being a little girl and let it go. It's old, it's played, it's done.
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
t3rm3y said:
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
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Click to collapse
because Microsoft only support the "old" snapdragon .
why apple customers don't ask them the same question , they use the same GPU as what is in 3gs a year ago ,
a second thing wp7 is developed on the snapdragon which is more than enough for now with it's improved drivers and direct x 9 support , it will perform even 2x better than a DHD with 8255 processor
t3rm3y said:
but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
QUOTE]
Sorry I'm the one that had to break the news, but there is always something better coming...
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hoss_n2 said:
why apple customers don't ask them the same question , they use the same GPU as what is in 3gs a year ago ,
a second thing wp7 is developed on the snapdragon which is more than enough for now with it's improved drivers and direct x 9 support , it will perform even 2x better than a DHD with 8255 processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 and 10char
t3rm3y said:
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD7, it is lag free and very responsive, I think the processor will be up to the task as long as the coding is optimal.
Because having the next most powerful processor isn't important. It doesn't matter what kinda specs a device is running s long as the device runs well. Apple has proved that.
And from what I have seen, MP7 runs beautifully.
Lorddeff07 said:
Because having the next most powerful processor isn't important. It doesn't matter what kinda specs a device is running s long as the device runs well. Apple has proved that.
And from what I have seen, MP7 runs beautifully.
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Click to collapse
True that.
Old processor?
Maybe this is a bad news to you, but it's good to me cause of my hd2.
I probably would have been crying about the same thing, if technology was growing by leaps and bounds. But its not right now, technology is kinda stagnate as of lately. Yes, the HD7 has the same processor as its predecessor the HD2, but its not a bad thing. especially now that the new rom has came out for the HD2, it feels faster than ever (you can go on the HD2 and Leo boards to attest for yourself). Another thing to remember, is that the new Windows Phone 7, is not an OS that needs a 2Ghz processor to run buttery smooth. I think that we are used to the PC ideology that the next thing should have a higher number than the last, in order to be considered and respectable upgrade. But even those Intel and AMD processors, reached their, threshold for raw computing power (for now) and the companies are now refining their codes, and drivers, in order to utilize and maximize peak performance out of what they already have. (That's why 4Ghz desktop processors aren't mainstream yet)
Another thing is the WP7 is standardized with base set requirements for internal specs. I truly doubt that you'll find a noticeable difference between all the launch devices behavior with the OS, because of their processors. The mail screen might open up a little quicker on one device, but again, that could be a driver code magic for the display adapter in a particular phone, so the one that "wins" in our mind, should have been the "newer, speedier" processor but because of the refinement and more developed drivers, the one that displayed the inbox quicker was the "older" processor. (I hope you guys got that...lol)
So what I'm trying to say at the end of the day, is it really doesn't matter about the processor spec, because whats inside the HD7 is more than plenty to run the OS and its apps very very nicely.
The debate is raging and is splitting the community in 2...
So I thought lets have a poll.
Let's be honest, even with a single core, WP7 devices DON'T lag. But just because having multi-core becoming a fashion statement, do WE need it?
Only spec whores care about dual core and overclocking...I've had this since December 2010, I don't get lags..WP doesn't need it...yet.
Sent from The Syndicate using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
i believe, in fact, that is a consumer gimmick.
consumers are 'bred' to think, "the bigger, the better."
and a dual-core is better than a single-core.
just isn't necessary for WP7 like it is with the fragmented Android.
so, yeah, it is all about the specs.
sh4d0w86 said:
i believe, in fact, that is a consumer gimmick.
consumers are 'bred' to think, "the bigger, the better."
and a dual-core is better than a single-core.
just isn't necessary for WP7 like it is with the fragmented Android.
so, yeah, it is all about the specs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree...the fact about dual core processors is this - a dual core processor is just half the job done. You applications need to RECOGNIZE the other damn processor and make use of it. (1 example is the Safari for iPhone 4S that recognizes the dual core chipset and makes optimum use of it.)
Windows phone don't need dual core to run apps casue thats how its built.
Microsoft is very good with support for old hardware like you can run windows 7 on an old pentium 4 pc which is good that unlike android almost all windows phones will get newer updates as they are rolled out.
Also remember Nokia is aiming for the budget phone customers as It admitted long ago that the Higher end phone market has too much competition for it while the lower end is still a strong point for nokia, hence their partnership with MS makes sense.
And keeping costs low will help both Nokia and MS to crack the phone market a bit more
Please remember the famous Bill Gates quote...
"who would ever need more than 256kb of RAM?" ( not a direct quote, blame my memory )
The OS in the current state doesn't need that obviously, it works flawlessly. But dual-core gives us space for improvement - both in the OS and apps. So...it's not necessary, but i wouldn't go as far as to say it's not needed.
But still, we don't need to put dual-core chips in every Windows Phone. A wide range of prices, equipment etc. is definitely a perk.
What's to debate?
Do current Windows phones have multiple cores? No.
Do they work? Yes.
Case closed. On to the next thread...
My answer, Why not!? If it can be done without negatively affecting functionality, the technology should push forward leading to more opportunities for developers.
DoogieDC said:
What's to debate?
Do current Windows phones have multiple cores? No.
Do they work? Yes.
Case closed. On to the next thread...
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Click to collapse
No. Case is not closed. Right now, even Mango phones do not support dual core processors. That is the main reason why HTC is still using single core processor in its flagship windows phone (Titan / Ultimate).
Multi core support will come with Apollo update.
Hola
So i am one of those types of users that likes to indulge with new tech especially phones. Windows Phones are too limited, Apple is controlling (though yes the same can be said about Microsoft mobiles), so I am pleased that Google came out with an open platform.
Now that Sammy has brought out the Galaxy S2, which was a really excellent device, and afterwards the great Note, is there really anything better that we can expect soon? It's like we have hit the top edge with no where to go at all. None of the other OEM's can't seem to make decent phones to compete...
What is your opinion?
So what you want me to do 'bout that?
Probably a bit premature to make that pronouncement as most tech is quickly out of date but am guessing this was for discussion
Am looking forward to Tegra3 quad core coming out to mobiles (check out the Transformer Prime), increased cpu and gpu speeds with ics, improved battery life, faster internet speeds 4g or more.
i saw a tech demo where a guy connected his galaxy nexus to a monitor, bluetooth keyboard and trackpad, and mouse and used that as his main computer.
also hoping for a galaxy note the size of an 8.9 tab with the notes' digitizer.
Lots more to look forward to.
huawei announced a quad-core with 16 graphics cores at mwc 2012.
looks like we still have a way to go just yet, most likely lower power consumption.
i wouldnt let that stop anyone from purchasing a galaxy note though. in my opinion it is by far the best android phone currently on the market.
htc one x...quad core tegra 3..awesum device...beats the note in every benchmark
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
jai147 said:
htc one x...quad core tegra 3..awesum device...beats the note in every benchmark
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Click to collapse
Personally I find huge amounts of processing-power quite meaningless on a mobile device, it's useful only if you play lots of games. If one could slap the mobile on a dock and turn it into a full desktop then it would be a different matter, then all the processing-power would actually start to make sense.
I just hope one or another manufacturer does come out with a mobile with a good dock and properly-supported desktop OS, there is no such a solution available yet.
Good thing I use my phone for real life applications like videos, Web surfing, drawing etc and not benchmarks then, and there the note is by far better.
Sent from my superior GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
jai147 said:
htc one x...quad core tegra 3..awesum device...beats the note in every benchmark
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
except screen size!!!
jai147 said:
htc one x...quad core tegra 3..awesum device...beats the note in every benchmark
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
So you like messing with quad-core on a passive-cooling device?
Tell me more about its usefullness on a longer period of useage.
Also to point out the Note actually does what its supposed to with the S-Pen, taking notes on the spot.
'Ubuntu for Android' is a usage scenario that will warrant quad-core processing. Check it out on the Ubuntu site.
Some manufacturers argue that quad-cores use less energy due to lower clock speeds, and shorter utilisation times. I know nothing about hardware though so I couldn't argue for or against this mindset.
Sent from my GT-N7000B using XDA
jai147 said:
htc one x...quad core tegra 3..awesum device...beats the note in every benchmark
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Click to collapse
Benchmarks = donkey turds
From the big ole Note
The Galaxy Note is now what was the HD2 then... the top performing AND
customizable phone for almost 2 years running. HD2 is still a top-phone, considering it will run anything from winmo 6.5, WP7, Android 2.3 on SD and in NAND, as well as ICS, ubuntu etc.
This fossile HD2 still runs my ubuntu in the car pretty darn fast!
You just know when such a "long lasting gadget" is released, if your blood runs a datastream and your hart pumps in cycles.
SonyWalkMan,C=64,Amiga500,PortableMp3player,Any1,8Ghz laptop, HTC HD2, Galaxy Note, Porsche 911.
You just know.
Since MWC is around the corner and Companies are already making announcements I ranted a bit about MultiCore phones. So like the Title says..
What do You think... Do Phones really need to have 2-4-6-8 cores?
My 2cents
To me the need for even two cores still seems over powered. My big complaint is that manufactures just want to ONE up the competition and add more and more even though it wouldn't be fully utilized by anyone in the foreseeable future.
For example. All these companies are slapping MultiCore phones and adding more ram and they aren't even really optimizing their software for the additional cores. It was android and it finally added MultiCore support with ICS, but companies were and still are releasing phones with 2cores running Froyo, Gingerbread that won't see ICS ever if not for devoted developers to Port it.
To me you can have the most fancy OS with all the Eye Candy you can think off and have it run off a Single(One) Core Processor just fine with no lag and 768MB of RAM and still have enough left for background apps if you focus on making your software efficient and optimized for that ONE core.
Look at WP7 sure its UI was over simplified, but it runs just fine with ONE core and 512MB of ram. And I've seen some very impressive Games run just fine on those phones. Unrelated to phones but look at how Windows (Desktop) handles RAM. Right now with just Chrome open with two tabs its using up 2GB of ram and this is a clean install. I just formatted my HDD and installed Chrome and updated to SP1 so there is no program prefetched. Ubuntu on this computer with just Chrome open only uses up 256-300MB of RAM because it was optimized for low ram machines. OSX86 SL on this computer only uses about about 300-500MB of ram.
So in the end all these multicore phones are doing is using up battery life to feed all these cores when the software hasn't been optimized for it. Now some processors shut off the additional cores when they aren't needed but even then only Games/apps that are aware of those cores will ever really use them.
Companies as they add more RAM and more cores add along with it bugged down crappy software and that just kills the purpose of all that power.
---
I just needed to spit this somewhere
There needs to be another high end mobile OS entering the market along with developers building more CPU demanding apps. That's the problem with android, its not universal like ios. And I don't want a apple vs android argument
Sent from the Nokia Galaxy Nexus S2 XL XE S X 3G LTE T-mo Plus with Beats Audio
I think they needs to focus on the CPU speed rather then cores. I'd rather have a dual core phone running at 3.5ghz then a quad core running at 1.2
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
What I think a company should do is focus on
Software > Battery > CPU/RAM
Because if you make you software RIGHT and perfect it then right from the get go you will notice huge performance with a single dual core processor.
Just imagine HTC sense with the speed of stock ICS on the Gnex or any other phone with Dual Core 1GB ram!
If companies like HTC focused on improving their UI with performance in mind, CPU makers at the same time will evolve and develop better smaller processors and will be cheaper then making a monster out of a phone only to cage it with half as UI's that suck.... Cuz we all know that a Single Core 1Ghz processor from today beats the crap out of a similar spec one from early 2000's
I dislike Apple but i gotta give them credit for focusing on iOS more then the actual iPhone.. If Android makers did the same and improved their crapware we wouldn't call it that.
I heard the multiple cores end up saving battery, especially in regards to the Tegra 3 because it has the companion core to take care of easy tasks like email syncing while the screen is off or whatever. The extra cores kick in when they're needed too, they're not constantly running when there's nothing going on. Most of the time, the extra ones are offline (see screenshots below).
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium.
Do we really need hexacore computers? Even though most software doesn't really benefit from them? The majority of computer games rarely put more than 2 cores to any worthy use, the OS runs quite the same with 2 or 4 cores in general and for the most part only intensive applications even benefit from it at all (photo, video, CAD, 3D and so on). We still get them though, and often enough they don't use excessively more power than the previous generation with smaller, more efficient technology. Also, try running your ubuntu setup with an 800x480 res and a comparatively weak single 1ghz, 512mb shared ram setup. It'll struggle for air.
It is good to move into this realm with phones. Play around with a Galaxy S, then with a Galaxy S 2 - both in their pure touchwiz form. The S 2 simply blows away the original. Virtually no performance hitches throughout any usage you can imagine, and this is just an upgrade from single to dual core. New designs don't use any more power than predecessors, and often save power as described above. 4 active cores when needed (completely shut off when inactive), and a seperate low-power single core when there is something basic? Genius.
I'm all for phones with as many cores as they fit, as long as the designs of tomorrow are like the designs of today. I don't see any reason why they won't be, so what's the harm?
i dont think we need 2+ cores
my nexus s out performs most dual core phone when i had it on stock 4.0.3 @ 1ghz
not im on a custom rom @ 1.4ghz... its even better
qaz2453 said:
i dont think we need 2+ cores
my nexus s out performs most dual core phone when i had it on stock 4.0.3 @ 1ghz
not im on a custom rom @ 1.4ghz... its even better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offence but I really don't think it will, maybe at benchmarking because that's not really a full test of speed.
Dual cores and 1.5ghz seems like all we need...
I am running 1ghz on my epic4g with a nice rom and i never really have complaints about the single core and the 1ghz it always works.
Dual core would satisfy my needs
sensation lover said:
No offence but I really don't think it will, maybe at benchmarking because that's not really a full test of speed.
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Click to collapse
The Nexus S routinely beats SOME dual core phones with the right kernel and ROM. I should know, I have one. That phone with Trinity kernel is a beast.
Wasn't me!! I didn't do it!
The more the merrier!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
For a long time i agreed with you completely, thinking more than two cores was fairly unnecessary, but after having recently looked into Ubuntu for Android and the Webtop application in the motorola atrix, i thought if our phones our powerful enough (4 or so cores), rather than have that power needlessly sitting there have our phones be able to run full desktop OS's. Ubuntu seems like the key candidate here, as i did enjoy my brief stint on there.
So too many cores does seem unnecessary just to one up the competition, but if we use that power to have a phone and desktop computer in one, then i am all for it!
qaz2453 said:
i dont think we need 2+ cores
my nexus s out performs most dual core phone when i had it on stock 4.0.3 @ 1ghz
not im on a custom rom @ 1.4ghz... its even better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it gets a higher score in a benchmark that literally measures the frequency. I have a Nexus S and no matter how much i OC it doesn't compare to something like an SGS2.
Zorigo said:
For a long time i agreed with you completely, thinking more than two cores was fairly unnecessary, but after having recently looked into Ubuntu for Android and the Webtop application in the motorola atrix, i thought if our phones our powerful enough (4 or so cores), rather than have that power needlessly sitting there have our phones be able to run full desktop OS's. Ubuntu seems like the key candidate here, as i did enjoy my brief stint on there.
So too many cores does seem unnecessary just to one up the competition, but if we use that power to have a phone and desktop computer in one, then i am all for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this entirely. Android, in its current state, is a Phone OS. In time I hope to see it gain many Desktop OS attributes, and right now we can already see Desktop OSes run on the phones. There is no reason to turn Android into one, but more processor power means we can turn our phones into a mini-computer worth using at a whim.
Unlike what seems to have happened with the iPhone 4S, the android dual cores don't guzzle through the battery like no tomorrow. Battery technology in it's current state is also limited. You want more mAh? Buy a bigger battery. Anything else is more often than not just a scam.
I think not nessesary in more cores.Simply stupid marketing to get your money.
Give me more ram, give me more cores, give me a decent screen, USB host and native Ubuntu... That way
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk
Give me more batary life.
animal-on said:
Give me more batary life.
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Click to collapse
Indeed, instead of making the specifications better, they should focus on improving the battery live. Really, 1 day is horse**** compared to the Nokia phones in the early 2000's..
My two cents:
I recently upgraded from a MyTouch 3G Slide to a MyTouch 4G Slide... going from a 600MHz MSM7227 Qualcomm proc to a 1.2GHz MSM8260 Dual-core SnapDragon.
Now aside from the obvious bump in speed, what impressed me the most was improved battery efficiency - partly from the proc, partly from Android improvements. From what I have seen of the new Tegra 3 SoC, it basically has four system cores and one battery saver core, that runs with minimal draw when the phone is idling.
As with PC procs, I think we'll see near future software and operating systems that are able to make greater use of multi-core setups, while saving battery life.
---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------
Here's a better question:
Why are hardware manufacturers so stingy with RAM and ROM!?
I can't believe that HTC or Samsung or Nokia would pay all that much more for 512MB of RAM as they would 2GB of RAM, right?
It just annoys me that we still have current onboard memory restrictions with so many devices in 2012
It's simple.If manufecturers will equip devices so fast of big memory,2 Gb for example,not so many people will buy new phone or tab.They will be waiting,because it's devices will works very fine with any apps.
I don't think people need all these extra cores, the only reason people think they do, is because stupid interfaces slowing the sh!+ out of their phones, if companies start concentrating on simpler UI, the need for all this RAM and CPU power will be gone, it's all part of the marketing plan, make things slower, tell people they need more cores, sell expensive phones and profit like a boss