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Desire Sense 2.3.5 Rom, can it be ported?

[Cool3D Sense 3.0][14 Sep]Cool3D AceS v2 |Android 2.3.5|FAST|STABLE|STOCK|CM7/r2
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1040121
this rom looks amazing just wondering if it will ever be ported to nexus as the current leading nexus sense rom is, well not to my taste its that R somthing mix.
but this rom looks realy cool, it has everything included, and no major bugs reported.
thanks

Yes. but... 'kernel'...

naqn said:
Yes. but... 'kernel'...
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so how long before we get the kernal required

kuljit55 said:
so how long before we get the kernal required
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Depends on who will port and how much free time this developer can spent.

i guess
i seems to ported.
desire kernel source released..

dla5244 said:
i seems to ported.
desire kernel source released..
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Really ? You men Desire Kernel Source-Code GB 2.3.5 ????
Link ?
-> http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
HTC Desire – GB MR – 2.6.35 kernel source code 88.7 MB !
Let the party start.... Happy coding....

JB AOKP build?

When do we get a AOKP build based on 4.1.1 JB?
Anybody knows?

You mean this?

No.
AOKP = Android Open Kang Project
One of the most powerful custom roms I know.

No eta
Sent from my SGH-I727 using xda premium

afaik they are working on it but nothing done yet. check the official site:
www.aokp.co
whenever its released that will be the first place you will find it!

fpdragon said:
No.
AOKP = Android Open Kang Project
One of the most powerful custom roms I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That'll teach me to skim-read

Ported!

Posted: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1824273

Very nice but I have a GT-P7300 and not the GT-P7310
Any chance to fix the boot problems?

fpdragon said:
Very nice but I have a GT-P7300 and not the GT-P7310
Any chance to fix the boot problems?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
uploading for the P7300

P7300 build uploaded

on dev section i think we have illusion ROM and CM 10 Perview
maybe still unofficial but lets hope for this thing will be official

cebonk said:
on dev section i think we have illusion ROM and CM 10 Perview
maybe still unofficial but lets hope for this thing will be official
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind CM ≠ AOKP, and without a fully working ROM Control...well, that's AOKP's essence. Romanbb and company are working on it. Patience is a virtue.

safariking said:
P7300 build uploaded
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tried this.. i think uploaded the wrong rom.. it is actually kallt_kaffe's 08-08-2012 7310 build..

Kk's CM10 build was sweet. I also tried the aosp jb version and I like the rom too. I am actually waiting for the first of either one to get updated so that we have a fully functional and stable rom of jb. Right now both rooms have its shortcomings. But it's better than the stock honeycomb version.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk 2

Am I alone in wanting ICS/CM9?

The Jelly Bean ROM's are great, but for me there's just too many bugs.
We have the ICS source now and I'd love a stable CM9 build. Unfortunately it looks like attn1 may have moved on, and all the other devs seem to be just working on JB.

Dude your not alone...count me in for that...if i knw step by step guide to at least to compile an AOSP kernel I would do it now

i ll waiting too but however stable cm9 or cm 10 doesnt exisit by now
Be patient

No I'm waiting for CM9 o CM10 too for a valid porting of MIUI

Everyone is waiting for CM9 but we need a kernel to get everything working propably! Our devs are working on it but they have a life, too. Don't expect sb to do a one-man Jesus show here;D Be patient, we will get fully working CM9 when kernel boots up
And in the future you can post stuff like this in our famous OFF-Topic-thread Keeps the G-Sec clean

Raithmir said:
The Jelly Bean ROM's are great, but for me there's just too many bugs.
We have the ICS source now and I'd love a stable CM9 build. Unfortunately it looks like attn1 may have moved on, and all the other devs seem to be just working on JB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't really matter much which ROM to make - ICS based or JB based CM. Because to make a proper and stable ROM, all you need is to make a stable AOSP\AOKP compatible kernel (and we still don't have one).
PS: AFAIK CM team wont add CM9 support for any more devices, i.e. if they will make a CM for our IncS it will be JB based CM10 and not CM9.

I thought that once we had sources, the kernel would be pretty easy, but then I don't know much about it. Who is working on the kernel?
I also thought that CM would only support a phone if source was available. Since we only have ICS source right now, that would rule out CM10 wouldn't it?
Sent from my Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

Raithmir said:
I thought that once we had sources, the kernel would be pretty easy, but then I don't know much about it. Who is working on the kernel?
I also thought that CM would only support a phone if source was available. Since we only have ICS source right now, that would rule out CM10 wouldn't it?
Sent from my Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
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Many of the CM10 ROMs don't have manufacturer source for JB (only ICS) therefore it is safe to assume that our ICS kernel can be used with CM10.

If we want official support we need a maintainer
The maintainer for the 7x30 HTC devices like ours, dhd, desire s etc
Our maintainer, Kali- moved on to Sony devices iirc
If we ask nexx and nk111 (cm devs from desire s) nicely maybe they might build for us
Sent from my HTC Incredible S

I understand that attn1 is still our maintainer.

weaselEST said:
I understand that attn1 is still our maintainer.
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Orly? Anyone heard from him/her?
Sent from my HTC Incredible S

I sent him a tweet some time ago after he bought S3 and I wrote something like this: "So you're not the maintainer for IncS anymore". And he replied "What makes you think that" . He still owns a vivo and a vivos.
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium

weaselEST said:
I sent him a tweet some time ago after he bought S3 and I wrote something like this: "So you're not the maintainer for IncS anymore". And he replied "What makes you think that" . He still owns a vivo and a vivos.
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
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That's good, hopefully he can compile CM10 soon and bring official support for CM9/10
I would be very grateful of that

I really want CM9 without any bug. Even now im usin CM7! i didt find any ICS AOSP rom. So im thinking about change my phone
Plz coock it...
Sent from my Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

CM10 or CM9?

Hey guys, I'm thinking of compiling a CM ROM from source next month (have to wait for data cap to reset) and was wondering what you guys would prefer, a significantly more stable CM9, or a more buggy (and more headaches for me) CM10 ROM? I personally would prefer to do a CM9 ROM since it would be easier to support and fix bugs on, since we already have relatively stable, working builds of AOSP ICS. CM10 would be great as well, but it would be much harder for me to support, since I would be the second dev for the Inc S to build a JB ROM from source for us. I just don't think I have the know-how to be the only one working on it, and the only one fixing bugs and whatnot, without any already working source code to view and compare.
So I could compile CM9.2 stable, and we would have the latest CM9 code using kaijura's IceColdSandwich as a reference. I would have an easier time supporting the ICS ROM since I would have working source code to compare and review. Also, it would be significantly more stable simply due to the fact that multiple devs for our device have already worked on it. I'm sure I'd be able to fix bugs and support it fairly easily, other devs are the best resource around
Or I could compile a CM10 ROM. I would have to take device proprietary files from nik's JB ROM's, which would mean my compiled ROM would share a lot of the same bugs our current JB ROM's already have. I could support and fix bugs in CM10, it would just take longer and be harder to do. Nothing's impossible though, so if that's what the community wants, then that's what I'll build!
So what do you guys think? CM10 or CM9?

It's your time and effort you do what Rom you want to do. Any Rom would be great!
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

vizzy said:
It's your time and effort you do what Rom you want to do. Any Rom would be great!
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm torn between the two! On the one hand, I want a stable ROM which would be CM9, but I also love that JellyBean goodness. I've also seen some people here that simply want a stable CM9 that's up to date, and other's that want the latest CM10 despite bugs. That's the point of this thread

I would tell u is that first for cm9 when we get a stable awesome cm9 for sure it will be easy to get a cm10... btw are u going to build a kernel?

My vote goes towards CM9! been using codename for the past couple months and although i'm enjoying all the new features, i still find myself yearning for a rock solid & stable ASOP based build.
Sent from my Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

linezero said:
I would tell u is that first for cm9 when we get a stable awesome cm9 for sure it will be easy to get a cm10... btw are u going to build a kernel?
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I could give it a try, but if nik and others couldn't get a 3.0 kernel up and running for AOSP, then I'll have a damn hard time. I'd prefer to have someone else make the new kernel, I don't know much about compiling them. Till then, I would just use X-ICS4.0 for the kernel.

Make a CM9, CM10 would have in the end too much bugs and they would just chance again. I'm waiting for a stable cm9 anyway
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app

Kernel 3, Cm10 got my vote
sent from my jellybean device

ZaySk said:
Hey guys, I'm thinking of compiling a CM ROM from source next month (have to wait for data cap to reset) and was wondering what you guys would prefer, a significantly more stable CM9, or a more buggy (and more headaches for me) CM10 ROM? I personally would prefer to do a CM9 ROM since it would be easier to support and fix bugs on, since we already have relatively stable, working builds of AOSP ICS. CM10 would be great as well, but it would be much harder for me to support, since I would be the second dev for the Inc S to build a JB ROM from source for us. I just don't think I have the know-how to be the only one working on it, and the only one fixing bugs and whatnot, without any already working source code to view and compare.
So I could compile CM9.2 stable, and we would have the latest CM9 code using kaijura's IceColdSandwich as a reference. I would have an easier time supporting the ICS ROM since I would have working source code to compare and review. Also, it would be significantly more stable simply due to the fact that multiple devs for our device have already worked on it. I'm sure I'd be able to fix bugs and support it fairly easily, other devs are the best resource around
Or I could compile a CM10 ROM. I would have to take device proprietary files from nik's JB ROM's, which would mean my compiled ROM would share a lot of the same bugs our current JB ROM's already have. I could support and fix bugs in CM10, it would just take longer and be harder to do. Nothing's impossible though, so if that's what the community wants, then that's what I'll build!
So what do you guys think? CM10 or CM9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cm9 bro! because ics kernel source is out and bugs can be fixed!

Yeah. CM9 would be OK for me too. I can help with testing if needed.
But what would be those great JB features we would be missing out? Sry I haven't been following the differences between 4.0 and 4.1.

IncS community is desperate for at least one fully functional, bugless AOSP ROM, so my vote goes for CM9

CM9 bro..wishing for bugless one.. gud luck..
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app

My 2 cents.
CM9. Kernel sources for ICS has been release by HTC and ANY AOSP rom that is stable would be very welcome in our community.
(I know there is gingerbread roms.. But.. Its ginger bread..)
Jelly Bean is nice and all,
But the odds of getting a stable AOSP rom are much higher with cm9.

CM9 I would say. I hope you can fix data problems for Vodafone NL users. We always have problems with data connection on AOSP ROMs.

CM9 would be great....!!
Its great to see devs are enthusiasticaly working on Roms..!!
You are the one dude...
Jst for info u might already aware of
This thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1914015
CM10 test build
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app

my vote a CM9 ASOP rom and bugless
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium

naathaanb96 said:
cm9 bro! because ics kernel source is out and bugs can be fixed!
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Totally agree. I don't like much sense ROMs, CM9 with working camera and camcorder would be perfect!
Thanks ZaySk

CM9!!!!

ZaySk said:
Hey guys, I'm thinking of compiling a CM ROM from source next month (have to wait for data cap to reset) and was wondering what you guys would prefer, a significantly more stable CM9, or a more buggy (and more headaches for me) CM10 ROM? I personally would prefer to do a CM9 ROM since it would be easier to support and fix bugs on, since we already have relatively stable, working builds of AOSP ICS. CM10 would be great as well, but it would be much harder for me to support, since I would be the second dev for the Inc S to build a JB ROM from source for us. I just don't think I have the know-how to be the only one working on it, and the only one fixing bugs and whatnot, without any already working source code to view and compare.
So I could compile CM9.2 stable, and we would have the latest CM9 code using kaijura's IceColdSandwich as a reference. I would have an easier time supporting the ICS ROM since I would have working source code to compare and review. Also, it would be significantly more stable simply due to the fact that multiple devs for our device have already worked on it. I'm sure I'd be able to fix bugs and support it fairly easily, other devs are the best resource around
Or I could compile a CM10 ROM. I would have to take device proprietary files from nik's JB ROM's, which would mean my compiled ROM would share a lot of the same bugs our current JB ROM's already have. I could support and fix bugs in CM10, it would just take longer and be harder to do. Nothing's impossible though, so if that's what the community wants, then that's what I'll build!
So what do you guys think? CM10 or CM9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My request would be neither CM9 nor CM 10.... it will be great if you can work on Kernel Version 3.... Becz that is the only roadblock for us for Jelly Bean and would open doors for may developers to come up with fresh and exciting jelly bean ROMs.....Why stay behind the world guys... lets target Jelly bean step by step.....who knows if you start working on kernel it may really turn out to be good.....Try for kernel bro......all the best.. try to compile it from source....

A rock solid cm9 would be great!
Sent from my Incredible S using xda app-developers app

3.0 Kernel for AOSP JB?

I've been using Codename ever since it came out but I got tired of the problems related to the Kernel and switched to ProjectX. I and I'm sure others really want to use a smooth and working JB ROM.
Is there anyone working on the 3.0 Kernel for our device? I know Nik said he contacted someone to help us out but there's been no news on that front yet.
If anyone knows how to modify Kernels, Adi_pat gave some tips here -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33291894
He'll probably help us out if we make some progress in booting up Codename with it at least

TheDareDevil said:
I've been using Codename ever since it came out but I got tired of the problems related to the Kernel and switched to ProjectX. I and I'm sure others really want to use a smooth and working JB ROM.
Is there anyone working on the 3.0 Kernel for our device? I know Nik said he contacted someone to help us out but there's been no news on that front yet.
If anyone knows how to modify Kernels, Adi_pat gave some tips here - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1899335&page=38
He'll probably help us out if we make some progress in booting up Codename with it at least
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Upon the exit of JB roms ago, were used GB modified kernel, now with source code maybe will be possible to compile a fully working kernel, but afaik there are no 3.x kernel for JB, maybe someone is working out of xda on irc channel but don't known..
Sadly I do not have much competence, plus I don't have the phone it's to repair....

There is kernel 3 for incredible 2 and desire s..may be someone can port it..
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app

I might be crazy, but I remember reading a post not too long ago about a dev that was writing the 3.0 kernel from source for our phones. I haven't heard an update since then, but I remember hearing it was someone with relation to the cm9 team. It sounded promising, but that development was very slow.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app

TheMegosh said:
I might be crazy, but I remember reading a post not too long ago about a dev that was writing the 3.0 kernel from source for our phones. I haven't heard an update since then, but I remember hearing it was someone with relation to the cm9 team. It sounded promising, but that development was very slow.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off the top of my head I seem to recall Noverbose saying he was trying to write a 3.0 Kernel. I also remember at least one other person mentioning something similar to, so there are people working on this. From what I understand it's not easy - I doubt we'll see anything this side of Christmas tbh. I hadn't realised that the Inc 2 and DS had a 3.0 Kernel though. Anyone know if they are actually a made from source version, rather than the same hacked version that we have in Codename, for example?

Well tbh honest a working GB kernel would do too.
Like the front camera and chrome and screen flickering etc.
Damn I wish kaijura was here
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app

CyanideJack said:
Off the top of my head I seem to recall Noverbose saying he was trying to write a 3.0 Kernel. I also remember at least one other person mentioning something similar to, so there are people working on this. From what I understand it's not easy - I doubt we'll see anything this side of Christmas tbh. I hadn't realised that the Inc 2 and DS had a 3.0 Kernel though. Anyone know if they are actually a made from source version, rather than the same hacked version that we have in Codename, for example?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes those 3.0 kernels are compiled from source. I checked out AOSP ROM threads in the Desire S and Inc 2 section that had 3.0 kernel, then looked up the creator of the ROM on github and found the sources. I was going to try tackle the 3.0 kernel to get a hang of the make system before building CM9, but I don't have enough monthly data left to download the kernel toolchain! Nov 1st is close, so I can get to work soon! :highfive:
The best way to build an AOSP 3.0 kernel for our device would probably be to look at the source code for 3.0 kernels on our sister devices, and figure it out from there.

ZaySk said:
Yes those 3.0 kernels are compiled from source. I checked out AOSP ROM threads in the Desire S and Inc 2 section that had 3.0 kernel, then looked up the creator of the ROM on github and found the sources. I was going to try tackle the 3.0 kernel to get a hang of the make system before building CM9, but I don't have enough monthly data left to download the kernel toolchain! Nov 1st is close, so I can get to work soon! :highfive:
The best way to build an AOSP 3.0 kernel for our device would probably be to look at the source code for 3.0 kernels on our sister devices, and figure it out from there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well holy crap, dude, get on that! Seriously though, getting a working 3.0 kernel for our device would go a long way to making JB a usable ROM for our device. Would it be possible to port JellyTime or a similar JB ROM to our device as well?

The source doesn't need changing, it is the ramdisk that is the problem. I have been trying to get help, but so far no luck, adi_pat said he would take a look, but it is hard for me to test as I no longer have an inc s

CyanideJack said:
Well holy crap, dude, get on that! Seriously though, getting a working 3.0 kernel for our device would go a long way to making JB a usable ROM for our device. Would it be possible to port JellyTime or a similar JB ROM to our device as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm gonna worry mainly about compiling CM9 from source once November hits, that's gonna take up the majority of my time. After I get the first release of CM9 out, I'll start work on a 3.0 kernel if it hasn't been done yet. I have no experience whatsoever dealing with kernels though, except for small ramdisk edits, so don't expect any miracles.
It should be possible to port other JB ROM's over using one of nik's ported JB ROM's as a base and reference point, the only problem is I don't know exactly what files I have to substitute to port a ROM. I've PM'd nik about that a few hours ago, so hopefully I'll get some more information on the subject. Nik has been a big help to my dev efforts as a whole.
l0st.prophet said:
The source doesn't need changing, it is the ramdisk that is the problem. I have been trying to get help, but so far no luck, adi_pat said he would take a look, but it is hard for me to test as I no longer have an inc s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, if it's only the ramdisk that needs changing, couldn't you look at the ramdisk from one of niks JB ROM's? Or is it not as simple as that? I'm assuming the latter, seeing as if it were that obvious I'm sure someone would've done it by now. If you ever need help testing, send me a PM I'd be more than willing to test for you.

ZaySk said:
I'm gonna worry mainly about compiling CM9 from source once November hits, that's gonna take up the majority of my time. After I get the first release of CM9 out, I'll start work on a 3.0 kernel if it hasn't been done yet. I have no experience whatsoever dealing with kernels though, except for small ramdisk edits, so don't expect any miracles.
It should be possible to port other JB ROM's over using one of nik's ported JB ROM's as a base and reference point, the only problem is I don't know exactly what files I have to substitute to port a ROM. I've PM'd nik about that a few hours ago, so hopefully I'll get some more information on the subject. Nik has been a big help to my dev efforts as a whole.
Interesting, if it's only the ramdisk that needs changing, couldn't you look at the ramdisk from one of niks JB ROM's? Or is it not as simple as that? I'm assuming the latter, seeing as if it were that obvious I'm sure someone would've done it by now. If you ever need help testing, send me a PM I'd be more than willing to test for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About using one of Nik's JB roms as a reference
What I understood was that the rom has been built around the old 2.6.x kernel and has to be modified again to work with the 3.0.x kernel, if you guys get one up and running. If that is the case, wouldn't you be going down the wrong path if you model it around nik's existing 2.6.x roms?
We need kaijura here, he was our AOSP kernel master. Hopefully he is doing ok, and has found something else other than xda because he hasn't been online for months. At least other devs, like lordclokan and kali- have moved on and are active with other devices... kaijura hasn't been on at all. Anyone been in contact with him/her?

markj338 said:
About using one of Nik's JB roms as a reference
What I understood was that the rom has been built around the old 2.6.x kernel and has to be modified again to work with the 3.0.x kernel, if you guys get one up and running. If that is the case, wouldn't you be going down the wrong path if you model it around nik's existing 2.6.x roms?
We need kaijura here, he was our AOSP kernel master. Hopefully he is doing ok, and has found something else other than xda because he hasn't been online for months. At least other devs, like lordclokan and kali- have moved on and are active with other devices... kaijura hasn't been on at all. Anyone been in contact with him/her?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, it would be going down a pretty redundant path. If I was able to port over a JB ROM using nik's ROM's as a base, then my ported ROM would inherit all the same bugs nik's ROM's already have.
I wish kaijura was still around, I have so many questions I want to ask about compiling from source! Luckily lordclokan was a massive help to me in that regard. Kaijura's github hasn't seen action in months either, sadly.

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the Desire HD essentially our device with a bigger screen and less memory? That being the case, could we not just port across one of the 3.0 Kernels from that?

The problem with the ramdisk that come with the official ROM's that have 3.0 kernels, is that they are built for the sense framework and don't work on AOSP ROM's. The ram disk that is included with Nik's JB ROM's is heavily modified to run a GB kernel with ICS / JB sources, so the problem is I don't have a base to work from, I am basically trying to merge the two init's to make the 3.0 kernel boot.
Saying that we need to port 3.0 kernel is probably a bit misleading, and for that I apologise, the kernel itself has very little Sense specific stuff, it's the ramdisk that is responsible for launching the kernel that is the issue here at the moment.

The only problem with the desire HD kernel would be that our front camera would not work
+ I forgot to link to adi_pat's post - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33291894
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app

l0st.prophet said:
The problem with the ramdisk that come with the official ROM's that have 3.0 kernels, is that they are built for the sense framework and don't work on AOSP ROM's. The ram disk that is included with Nik's JB ROM's is heavily modified to run a GB kernel with ICS / JB sources, so the problem is I don't have a base to work from, I am basically trying to merge the two init's to make the 3.0 kernel boot.
Saying that we need to port 3.0 kernel is probably a bit misleading, and for that I apologise, the kernel itself has very little Sense specific stuff, it's the ramdisk that is responsible for launching the kernel that is the issue here at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you can prolly get ideas from adi ( he posted http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=33302707&postcount=387 not sure if you saw it) he seems to know what's up.

TheDareDevil said:
The only problem with the desire HD kernel would be that our front camera would not work
+ I forgot to link to adi_pat's post - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33291894
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it looks like the furthest things got regarding a 3.0 Kernel was;
Adi_Pat said:
chan
Ok so 2.6.35 works with Jellybean. Why not pack the ramdisk with zImage compiled from 3.0.y sources(Considering you are using standard boot.img format[?]) Because to get it to boot, you would not require any hacks/changes to source, editing ramdisk(init.rc) is enough to make it boot initally.
EDIT: You may also need to change init binary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

l0st.prophet said:
The problem with the ramdisk that come with the official ROM's that have 3.0 kernels, is that they are built for the sense framework and don't work on AOSP ROM's. The ram disk that is included with Nik's JB ROM's is heavily modified to run a GB kernel with ICS / JB sources, so the problem is I don't have a base to work from, I am basically trying to merge the two init's to make the 3.0 kernel boot.
Saying that we need to port 3.0 kernel is probably a bit misleading, and for that I apologise, the kernel itself has very little Sense specific stuff, it's the ramdisk that is responsible for launching the kernel that is the issue here at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting, thanks for the informative post. :good:

zaysk said:
very interesting, thanks for the informative post. :good:
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happy november!!!

markj338 said:
happy november!!!
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A very happy November indeed