Database Develop

[Q] Suggestions for improving Forum Etiquette

This is my reply to the mess of a thread located at:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=781513
I hope my suggestions are taken in the very helpful spirit that they were typed.
Thanks folks.
I'm gonna be all trolly here and what not. Is there not a way to simply FORCE people to read? As in, you can't post for 3 weeks after you join? It wouldn't stop people from being stupid, but it would help train them to Search & Read in the 3 weeks that they desperately wait for a Rom to drop.
This thread has the train wreck effect... I couldn't not read the whole damn thing. (I am actually very interested in getting the originally mentioned feature, btw.) And yes my post is Off-Topic, yet ridiculously relevant. I have quietly been a member of this forum for years and haven't seen this kind of wasted space ever. Maybe I should stop recommending people "Go check out xda developers online..." I am partially responsible for getting these people here. But, I believe a strong, open community is the best way to get results. Perhaps, all new members trying to post new threads outside of the General/Q&A forums get redirected to the Advanced Search page unless verified by a mod as a legitimate dev contributor? I am sure that would require coding a module for the forums... And since I don't know how to do any of that I will end my trolliness now. Oh wait, maybe a simpler solution - A "Wrong forum button" where if enough people vote the post gets moved. Seems simple enough and the mods can get the help they need without have the more - zealous - members of our community take matters into their own hands.
Thanks for your time and attention to my suggestions. I will now look for an appropriate place to post this in the main forum.
-Memo

See that's why I voted "against" xda samsung section, you'll see it will be even worse when we get an lg and istick sections
This place is becoming just like other places only flaming and "your problems are stupid because this is alright for me". Luckily there are still a lot of decent people around here which make me stay.

poll looks pretty inconclusive to me

Very umm, intellectual thread read that was.
But you know when inviting a couple of close friends over turns into a full blown Hizouse Partaaay a couple of fights are gonna break out...
Actions as such in that thread aren't very rampant but can make for an interesting read. But comparing contributions, join date and or post count in any situation is pretty moronic.
Has there ever been a thread where it ended happy and all party's posted:
Like, man I'm sorry man I was drunk.
Oh no man it's cool, man my wife was gettin on me about the garbage and kids were nagging.
So are we cool?
Yeah man. Can I invite you as a friend?
Oh totally!
That would be awesome to see...
good day.

I have seen many happy ending threads actually.
And honestly, I didn't really understand your ideas on what is being discussed. I think that if the actions were rampant then this site would be dying as many have before. XDA has a very long legacy, and it should be protected BEFORE it becomes a problem. Just how telling a 15 y/o that suddenly his backtalk is not acceptable would have no effect, telling the new influx of users being drawn by the boom in mobility that they have to behave in the forums when everything they see is "IS.HE.THE.DADDY.DNA.TEST-Developers.com" would be ineffective. Needs to be taken care of early. Prevent the problem. Don't waste tons of resources trying to fix it.
And just to be clear were you at all trying to be offensive, snarky, or sarcastic? Just curious.
- Memo

souljaboy said:
poll looks pretty inconclusive to me
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It's a wealth of information! Perhaps we need to stick people into the Brain Training room from Lost. ...I'll go look for my lab coat.

memorito said:
And honestly, I didn't really understand your ideas on what is being discussed.
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Actually just noticed the [Q] on the thread title, your post didn't really reference adding on to your suggestions. So my bad for not seeing the [Q]. Wrong forum button does have some potential. But the experienced xda user should know who his forum mod is and send a pm outlining any gripe with link to thread before turning it into a public chest puffing competition where in the end all who participated look like morons.
Is it feasible to have an ethics moderating committee that would monitor the content and actions of the first 15 posts of a new member? But it all still comes down to an individual showing that they have the utmost respect for xda and its users. Members involved in your example are not spring chickens and should be a little ashamed. Because a new user might think that is the norm for the forum.
memorito said:
And just to be clear were you at all trying to be offensive, snarky, or sarcastic?
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No. The house party statement does hold a lot truth though. Even 3 years ago the "smart phone" was seen as a business tool. Even you brought up the influx of new users as result of the mobile boom. I'm 36 now and didn't even get a cell phone till I was 23. Now I see children with devices that I would die to have or be able to afford. The age demographic of this site has changed so dramatically over the last couple of years. And as elder members we can only protect the image of xda by policing our own actions and utilizing the forum mods for what they are intended for.
Since it is off topic I still feel like I need to have a little fun.
Boobs....... o.k. I'm done.
good day.

a good start would be requiring everyone to add a nice greeting to the end of their posts according to the time of the day

ive talked to the mods about this in the past and they liked the idea, but havent added it yet:
requiring a signature to be set up upon first signing up to xda including current phone/s, rom, recovery, hboot, kernel...
having set up so that registering could not continue without filling out these fields (of course there would have to be a "how-to" option to help those that dont know what those are or how to find out what they have)
this would stop the
"can someone help me please! my phone wont boot"
"what phone do you have?"
"G1"
"what rom are you running?"
"stock 1.6"
"what hboot?"
exchanges which take up half the posts in a lot of threads

souljaboy said:
a good start would be requiring everyone to add a nice greeting to the end of their posts according to the time of the day
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tnpapadakos said:
requiring a signature to be set up upon first signing up
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This would also help create that pause for reflection and research that I think would really help the new members get oriented. Right from the start they learn they have to provide as much info as possible, if they are ever to get a response.
chopper the dog said:
Actually just noticed the [Q] ...
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Actually, I should have restructured the post. I just straight copy/pasted from a related thread where the info would have been read in context.
chopper the dog said:
Is it feasible to have an ethics moderating committee that would monitor the content and actions of the first 15 posts of a new member?... Members involved in your example are not spring chickens and should be a little ashamed. ...
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I don't know that it would be feasible. I was even thinking of perhaps a Volunteer Buddy Moderation, where you have to submit your first 5 posts for approval from a mentor. The mentor would be in charge of making sure the protocol was followed - Search And Read, Label subject line correctly, and provide full info... I just don't know that anyone is willing to work on the actual Forum Coding... And adding more work to the mods wouldn't be a good idea. If they had the time to constantly be vigil, they would kill the problem posts as soon as they are noticed.
chopper the dog said:
The age demographic of this site has changed so dramatically over the last couple of years. And as elder members we can only protect the image of xda by policing our own actions and utilizing the forum mods for what they are intended for.
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I guess it can be expected from the youngins, but how do you get the grumpy, reactionary elders to nod feed the flames?
chopper the dog said:
Since it is off topic I still feel like I need to have a little fun.
Boobs....... o.k. I'm done.
good day.
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Butts.
Good day to you too, sir.

Happy Ending. Don't see many of these. HERE
good day.

chopper the dog said:
Happy Ending. Don't see many of these. HERE
good day.
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That did work out rather nice... But they weren't being completely nasty to each other.
Not like these guys...
http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/7993-ffc-for-the-vibrant/
Some people have every intent of being offensive. Don't really get the point but hey.

Kids will be kids
What i see is a lot of kids (15-30) in this forum tend to think since they know...... you should too. Forums should encourage newbies to get involved and once they are communicating then, reroute them to the right forum etc. this kind of considerate rational act would improve and make this forum WAY better, but then, I digress.
Requiring the signature probably would be helpful, but I think the moderator being vigilant and remind the sarcastic, inconsiderate they once were Newbies may be just as effective. People need to remember that not all here are devs, programmers or really techies. A lot are here for the education..... but then....my wife always said i was too much an idealist

WOW hit a new level HERE.
good day.

[poll] Is anyone interested in town hall meeting with mod participation?

To all,
I don't really know what is going on in here, why you guys are fighting, or why you simply can't get along. We have been acting a lot in here only to see nothing more than constant flaming, finger pointing, and the such... all behaviors that are not allowed in XDA grounds (see rule 2).
Over the last week or so there have been constant comments, complains, and tons of issues coming from this section. There have been a bunch of moderators in here already, and it seems that this has no end in sight. As far as I am concerned, banning is a useful tool, which is better avoided if not absolutely needed... and I believe this to be the case.
Having said this, I would like to offer the following approach to solve the issue with Master (and any other issues that you may have in your minds)... A Town Hall meeting type of thread, which will be grounds for discussion of current issues (you can see the thread here). I did this in the Hero CDMA section several months ago and everything turned out rather well since people were able to talk and discuss issues in a civilized manner.
Here are the rules:
- The thread will only remain open for discussion for a certain period of time (I did the last one for 8 hours).
- No flaming/trolling/rudeness/cursing will be allowed.
- No banning will occur.
- Irrelevant posts will be automatically deleted.
- The thread will be heavily monitored by one or more moderators.
If I get enough people agreeing to participate via this poll, I will then schedule a time.
This is will be a final resource before banning begins. I am willing to put up the time if you guys are willing to cooperate.
Let me know what you all think.
From Papa_Smurf151 (thought of this message to be more universal, so I changed a thing or two to make it fit here ),
OK u guys...I know everyone is tired of all the drama on here. I have been talking to one of the mods through pm and gave a suggestion for a town hall meeting to discuss the problems as of late. The mod agreed that he and hopefully other mods would be willing to open a thread where we can discuss these issues. There will be no banning for what is said in this meeting but with a mod present and engaging in convo the tone needs to stay clean or semi at least. Failure would result in post being deleted. There will be rules that the mods what followed but its to keep the pease.
Look this cdma community has been split for a little while now. U can feel the tention in some post. Its time to stop the flaming and the trolling. This is not just about the Master thing even though that's what sent all of this overboard.
The mods only see part of this community and its the ugly side. They are harsh cause they are misinformed about certain people and certain actions. This is our opportunity to have a united voice and share how things really are and ideas on how to remedy them
Its time to reunite as the amazing community this used to be and get back to what really matters.
Feel free to comment. Please keep it clean. The more votes in the poll the better.
The meeting would be at a set time and heavily monitored then closed once alotted time had past. Please join and enjoy.
This is not the meeting. It is just a poll to let mods know we are serious and that we can behaive.
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I think this is a great idea. I've been at XDA for some time now and i've never seen a forum get this out of hand. This will be a great opportunity for people to get things off their shoulder.

I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.

I like the concept & I'll participate if it happens, but I think jnutz is right. People are blatantly ignoring the rules simply because nothing happens to them if they don't.
People who like TeamWhiskey/Eugene/Master/[Anyone else I missed]... go into the threads of the ones they don't like/use and flame away and cause threads for an active ROM to be closed! This is insane!
I don't remember people being this rude and disrespectful of everyone else when I was looking up information for an old Windows Mobile phone or when I actually joined after I got my G1.
Maybe a combination of both approaches? Ban the people who are repeat offenders now and have the town hall meeting for the ones who aren't as big of disruptions?

We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)

As Ez said, its a more civilized method in which we can communicate openly with the Members of the fora in order to workout issues we have all witnessed. The Town Hall will be monitored by the moderators (myself included) in order to make sure we stay on topic and so that it can be of actual use for all of us. These town halls allow us to bring light onto issues users have been facing along with us moderators being able to give input and action ideas that have a general consensus. If you wish to see one that has happened before and see the outcome you can look here. As Ez told me, the previous one turned the whole forum around 180 degrees and the users in there are way better now. I look forward to this if we have one.

This is a good idea.. I've been a frequent visitor of xda since I have a G1. XDA has been my information resource for my devices (G1, mytouch 3G, mytouch slide, and Vibrant).. I have made donations also to some devs for their great work.. but I never bother to post questions or suggest solutions because of the trolling and flaming going on.. It would be very nice if everything will be put in order.. This is my first post..
I felt really bad when Eugene left XDA.. great dev.. but things are not so good..

Great Idea and ASAP
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when

Same, same...no pun intended on shame, shame...
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...

here.david said:
While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
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oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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Thanks for the interest in helping but the moderators such as myself and Egz will be watching this (if it happens) along with a few others, thanks though

jnutz said:
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
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civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!

I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave. A lot of what goes on here resembles petty high school drama, take that **** to Facebook, not a development forum!

This won't solve anything. People need to realize that people who created this awesome site along with the ROMs, mods, and themes and etc. are doing this on their own free will and time, they are NOT getting paid...
People need to learn a little courtesy before anything.
/thread

almyz125 said:
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave.
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I doubt taking down the bible would prove any worth, if anything it would harm the people that use it, and the assholes on this forum wouldn't even notice. Warnings and bans need to be given to those who violate the rules.

Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?

Yes but..........
scrizz said:
civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
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The punks that should be banned... ok, ban them... then what ? they change their name and are back on different name same ****......... ok then what then? ban the isp?..........that algorithm too complex to manage so, although I totally agree with you, I do not see a practical way.......... but yes, ban them anyway for good measure. Then, as a collective body we would need to shun them as well. If people get no response from the forum members, sooner or later, they get the message and move on.....

Options
I would say, let's fo the town hall, and after that maybe before banning could you kind of redirect the offenders for let's say two or three days for half an hour every login to the rules page?
If that does not work either, then i would be all up for the french revolution tactic. off with their heads!

scrizz said:
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
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Hey Scrizz,
They have worked in the past even for Forums that are like the Vibrant's, look here

If it's something that has worked in the past, it's worth a try. I don't think the "Cancer" will attend but it may help the non-problem users come up with better ways to deal with problems.
It might help and it certainly can't hurt. I vote yes.

egzthunder1 said:
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
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Gotcha. I was (wrongfully) under the impression that this was a "is this a good idea" thread, so I basically answered 'no, you should enforce the rules', but it seems to be a "we want to do this because it's helped calm things down in the past, will you help us" thread.
And in answer to the question that you actually asked (rather than the question I inferred), if the timing doesn't conflict with anything in real life, I would definitely like to be a part of this discussion. The sooner it happens, the better because things are way out of hand.

[Q] @ moderator

i don't want to flame here but want to give my opinion on some things that are happening here and aren't fair at all.
i'm here for about 6 months or so, i find this community very useful,helpful, fun.. etc.
many times topics get overloaded by useless discussions, fights or stupid offtopic talk. many users, topicstarters and moderators try to make sure the rules are followed. offcourse like in every large community there are good and bad users.
you can't prevent such things from happening.
but why? (now again with zeus's topic) every time something goes wrong the topic gets closed. TS and many good users are punished for something they had nothing to do with.
why not punish te ones that misbehave individually?
i don't want to tell the mod how he needs to do his work but this isn't fair in my opinion..

I couldn't aree more
The mod is a woman*
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium

a good possibility is to block these users to post in dev section.
like it's done with new users..

Pollie81 said:
a good possibility is to block these users to post in dev section.
like it's done with new users..
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Or just ban them for a week so they know that the mod meens serious about the rules.
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium

Agree 100% , the people in this particular sector are some of the most selfish I've seen with demands and expectations for a free product that has absolutely nothing to do with them and all that we do have is the result of someones HOBBY, not job. After coming from p500 with a roms out the wazoo it can be a little dissapointing in comparison, but if I cared enough to demand and complain I would simply do it myself.
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda app-developers app

RomWiz said:
Or just ban them for a week so they know that the mod meens serious about the rules.
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium
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Banning temporary cannot help. Later re post again. I rather XDA make ip blocker. Better
But, they can still counter with hotspotshield

why people feel this like as a murder, I can't understand
Blocking the account for few days is nice idea, then the blocked user will know the value of XDA in the meantime..
Blocking IP, etc. matter seem like, dealing the nail issue with an axe
Guys, don't make moderators seem as cruel people

anyone understand the above matter ?

I agree with you guys, as well as the modo too, I'm sure of it. BUT, think a little. in some threads they are hundreds of posts. do you really think they have all that time to spend for reading kiddy posts in order to find who has started to flame around ? USELESS. and also, banning users for two or three bad post is not fair too. this is a community, not a kind of private restricted ****. and by being a part of that community, you should think for the majority, not the opposite.

Well said friend...I agree with you.

Ilko said:
I agree with you guys, as well as the modo too, I'm sure of it. BUT, think a little. in some threads they are hundreds of posts. do you really think they have all that time to spend for reading kiddy posts in order to find who has started to flame around ? USELESS. and also, banning users for two or three bad post is not fair too. this is a community, not a kind of private restricted ****. and by being a part of that community, you should think for the majority, not the opposite.
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And that means gentlemanly.

Pollie81 said:
TS and many good users are punished for something they had nothing to do with.
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who are they that get punishment?
what's happen with DioXcodec account?

Ilko said:
I agree with you guys, as well as the modo too, I'm sure of it. BUT, think a little. in some threads they are hundreds of posts. do you really think they have all that time to spend for reading kiddy posts in order to find who has started to flame around ? USELESS. and also, banning users for two or three bad post is not fair too. this is a community, not a kind of private restricted ****. and by being a part of that community, you should think for the majority, not the opposite.
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that's totally the opposite of my intention..
big forum's just needs to be monitored, you can't help that.. there are always "bad" people arround.. no matter where you are in the world.
just to be clear, the mod here is doing her job very good.
the only thing i don't like is the closing of topics.. and by that you are punishing the wrong people.
i don't want people to get banned over a few bad or stupid posts, that's not my intention.

yeah, there are stupid people everywhere, that's life. but dude, locking a topic won't kill anyone. it's simply the easiest and quickest way to "pause" flamings. note that it is also in the goal of cleaning the thread peacefully. I don't said that they have to ban each times, just a meaning... she simply doesn't need to waste her time in nonsense tasks. it's like to stop all drivers on a route to find the idiot who crossed a red light. do you get the point ?

yeah, i get your point.
as you said yourself, this action only pauses the flaming/offtopic.
in a few days after reopening everything will be the same as it was before.
this doesn't help.. but maybe it's something that we/i need to accept that these problems will always exist in forums..
sometimes it's just hard to ignore some things that are said here.. people being unrespectfull towards dev's here..
lighten up and let go (said to myself)

yeah, let's be funky

@moderator Mrs Ann...your gardens are beautiful
both the virtual one (farmville) and natural one^^

theaks30 said:
@moderator Mrs Ann...your gardens are beautiful
both the virtual one (farmville) and natural one^^
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Buttering a woman can be risky....

Dialogue between users and Mods...temporary thread will be temporary.

M_T_M said:
OK....after a major clean up this here thread should be back on topic.
@ OP....please carry on with maintaining this thread orginized. If don't wanna, PM and we'll change OPs.
No more tolling, please.
Cheers,
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"holding "
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome

jugg1es said:
Sorry m8,but if you thought just a cleanup was what I was after then you misunderstood my reasons. It's a lot more than just a thread cleanup that's needed in OT, things have happened over the last few months that have driven good regular people away. Maybe an attitude shift is what's really needed and a closer look at why these people have stopped posting.
This is my last post in here, anyway "good luck and thanks for all the fish"
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome
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@jugg1es
[FONT=&quot]I honestly have no idea what you're referring to here, but honestly you should send a PM to someone here you trust about your concerns. At the end of the day, we can't fix something that we don't know is a problem.
I always read and reply to PMs.
As for this thread, it's still a great thread and I would hate for it to die after all the hard work of categorizing and organizing the great work of moderators past and present, so I will take over the thread if you do not want to continue updating it or no longer feel the passion of "gold digging" if you will. Let me know or @M_T_M and we go from there.
Godspeed my friend...[/FONT]

orangekid said:
@jugg1es
[FONT=&quot]I honestly have no idea what you're referring to here, but honestly you should send a PM to someone here you trust about your concerns. At the end of the day, we can't fix something that we don't know is a problem.
I always read and reply to PMs.
As for this thread, it's still a great thread and I would hate for it to die after all the hard work of categorizing and organizing the great work of moderators past and present, so I will take over the thread if you do not want to continue updating it or no longer feel the passion of "gold digging" if you will. Let me know or @M_T_M and we go from there.
Godspeed my friend...[/FONT]
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I'm currently chatting with M_T_M regarding this.
I would also hate to see the good things in this thread go, I also want it to continue in a decent vein. I'm gonna wait for a bit and see what happens
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome

M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

jugg1es said:
M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris
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Sorry to see you go Glenn.

vanessaem said:
Sorry to see you go Glenn.
Click to expand...
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Better to walk away than get thrown out for saying something stupid regardless of how truthful I think it is
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

jugg1es said:
M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris
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Click to collapse
LOLQUE??!!
But, but, but...u mad tho?
What ever happened to "let's talk about it" and "if you see something that requires the MC attention, report it" discussion we had?
I see your point about the post with the benchmark being deleted (not necessary IMHO) but...there's still LULZ to be had and LUL we shall, mate!!
Don't rage quit on me, man!!! You are better than this...

M_T_M said:
LOLQUE??!!
But, but, but...u mad tho?
What ever happened to "let's talk about it" and "if you see something that requires the MC attention, report it" discussion we had?
I see your point about the post with the benchmark being deleted (not necessary IMHO) but...there's still LULZ to be had and LUL we shall, mate!!
Don't rage quit on me, man!!! You are better than this...
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Its not a rage quit, it's simply a case of lost heart in the system. It doesn't work, ot gets all the 10 posters, then the first thing that happens is the dev threads full up with questions pretty much unchecked. During my lurking it seems that ot has become the home for moderation and dev threads have been left to become a mess. The rom q&a threads (which is a good idea) aren't used and the actual dev threads fill up. I'm no developer but I have become an experienced abuser of the platform, searching for anything in a thread has become a complete nightmare, search for a solution to any problem and you end up faced with hundreds of questions all asking the same thing with hundreds of different answers. OK so the gtfo and go use the search may have come across as harsh but it did force people to search(me included, I asked a fair few stupid questions) it was the harshness that forced me to learn how to use the search effectively, that effectiveness has been eroded. I know this has become a 'family friendly' forum but with the average age of people wanting to mod their devices getting lower at an alarming rate it seems that "give me nao" attitude of today's youth is being pandered to.
I came here to rid myself of sense on the saga, I found a community of people that helped by making me do, great conversation and friendship. It was an escape from the "give me nao" I have all day at work and that attitude is something I spend hours confronting and helping people do themselves. This is what xda was to me, now it's just a "ok I'll do all your searching for you and link you to the post 2 above yours".
Rage.... No, certainly not my friend.
(think I found one of your accounts on g+ and added it)
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

Ok,
I've seen the back and forth in this thread.
Now I used to be an off topic denizen, as well as the Market Place when it existed. I know exactly how it was moderated and what it "used to be like."
I know the current people who moderate this section now, and honestly they deserve more respect than this. They are not here to make YOUR life hard, or to "ruin the fun," but to get moderation done just like any other section. Moderating is thankless job, and the one thing you do that someone doesn't agree with you get to hear about in posts like these.
You might take a step back and look to see if it's not XDA that's changed so much, but maybe you have too. Now I started this thread originally, because I thought it would be humorous collection of moderation rants and closes, and I wanted to contribute to the OT section of XDA.
Now I contribute as a moderator.
You've listed the reasons why you come to XDA and OT, but what do you contribute to the community? This IS a ragequit and honestly it's a poor way to deal with things. You need to use communication to handle the issues you feel are present instead of this big dramatic reasoning for leaving.
If you are going to leave, then I guess you gotta leave. There is no one person bigger than XDA.
But instead of being upset that about what XDA isn't doing for you, you might consider how you can contribute even more to the community, and try to actually get in communication with the moderating crew, you might be surprised how approachable they are.
I am saying this not as a moderator (this is not even my section), but as an XDA community member.
I would challenge you to take more responsibility in this community, and not observe the happenings around you and decide on an apathetic exit.
You are always welcome to give new ideas, to open up Q&A threads, to help out in so many ways, but just saying "the system doesn't work" and taking your ball and going home doesn't really help, does it?
There have always been "give me answers now" people on this site and there will always be, it is up to the community as a whole to make this about personal responsibility, and if you've given up the good fight, then we will continue anyways.
The choice, however, is always yours.
If you are not going to update this thread anymore, I can have someone transfer it back to me, but I'd rather you continue if you're up for it.

orangekid said:
I know the current people who moderate this section now, and honestly they deserve more respect than this. They are not here to make YOUR life hard, or to "ruin the fun," but to get moderation done just like any other section. Moderating is thankless job, and the one thing you do that someone doesn't agree with you get to hear about in posts like these.
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This made me laugh and cringe at the same time... There are maybe 3 mods in OT that deserve respect, the rest, not so much. I was raised you have to give respect to get respect and most give none so they get none in return. They won't be named because I'll undoubtedly be banned again for it.
Being a mod is a power position that many mods take advantage of, if you disagree just look at some of the posts linked in this very thread, they do the exact things that they have infracted and banned other users for! Trolling threads (in many cases unlocking a locked thread to do so) with senseless memes and degrading members with their replies in some cases, that behavior doesn't deserve respect at all. Being a mod some of you should really learn to lead by example and stop setting bad examples for other members. If you wouldn't want a "regular" member to do it, as a mod you definitely shouldn't be doing it... Not aimed at you Orangekid, just a general statement to all mods alike

flastnoles11 said:
This made me laugh and cringe at the same time... There are maybe 3 mods in OT that deserve respect, the rest, not so much. I was raised you have to give respect to get respect and most give none so they get none in return. They won't be named because I'll undoubtedly be banned again for it.
Being a mod is a power position that many mods take advantage of, if you disagree just look at some of the posts linked in this very thread, they do the exact things that they have infracted and banned other users for! Trolling threads (in many cases unlocking a locked thread to do so) with senseless memes and degrading members with their replies in some cases, that behavior doesn't deserve respect at all. Being a mod some of you should really learn to lead by example and stop setting bad examples for other members. If you wouldn't want a "regular" member to do it, as a mod you definitely shouldn't be doing it... Not aimed at you Orangekid, just a general statement to all mods alike
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I understand completely.
I think we're on different sides of the fence on some of this. The bottom line is I know how the moderation game works and these guys bust their butts to make this the best place for mobile development, period.
Regardless, they are all open to communication and the MC is ALWAYS open as well.
At the end of the day we need to come together as a community.
It seems to be doing little good to go on and on about it here though honestly (me included), the most benefit would be to PM an MC member on this matter.
They will always listen, and you can take that to the bank.
But public ragequit does not resolve it.
That's the last I'll say on the matter, my inbox is always open too.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

orangekid said:
I understand completely.
I think we're on different sides of the fence on some of this. The bottom line is I know how the moderation game works and these guys bust their butts to make this the best place for mobile development, period.
Regardless, they are all open to communication and the MC is ALWAYS open as well.
At the end of the day we need to come together as a community.
It seems to be doing little good to go on and on about it here though honestly (me included), the most benefit would be to PM an MC member on this matter.
They will always listen, and you can take that to the bank.
But public ragequit does not resolve it.
That's the last I'll say on the matter, my inbox is always open too.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
I her what you're saying, I mod on a pretty big sports forum (over 2 million members now I believe) so I get what it takes, but when mods do one thing and then ban a member for that exact same thing it makes the mods in general look pretty immature and frankly, dumb...
It would be great if everybody could come together, but until some of the mods change their "I'm right about everything, you're wrong because I'm a mod" attitude is not going to happen.
I think the biggest point people are trying to make about the OT situation as a whole is that in OT, a post doesn't even have to be reported and within the hour it's gone, where as in dev threads you can report posts and they'll still be there days later. If a little more of that attention was spent on the parts of the site THAT ACTUALLY MATTER, there would be less of this going on...
This is the only forum I've ever been a part of where there is more mod attention in an OT section than in parts of the forum that actually pertain to the existence of the site in the first place.... Not saying ot shouldn't be modded the way it is, but the rest of the site should have those same standards and no matter what any mod says, it simply isn't.
Mods should also be held to a higher standard and when they're allowed to troll threads with memes while other users get infractions for the same behavior something is horribly wrong there

Guys, OT is getting the same attention as the other forums we moderate. We don't go checking every new post, though, which is why reports are important... Obviously, if we get a report we tend to keep an eye on the thread for a bit, which isn't very hard to do with notifications.
The point is: OT is not special. Really. It gets the same amount of attention as other forums and despite what you may think, we mostly rely on reports.
If you feel an issue you've reported hasn't been resolved, then please contact the moderator who took it. It might not require an action for some reason, or it might be still an open issue... So contact the acting mod and you'll get an explanation.
Similarly, if you have an issue with a particular mod, contact him and let him know about it, politely. If you think that's of no use, there's the moderator committee as well.
Also, about the spamming of memes: we haven't been doing that as of late. It was mostly done to give some lulz for all parties involved, but you didn't like it and we did listen.

flastnoles11 said:
I her what you're saying, I mod on a pretty big sports forum (over 2 million members now I believe) so I get what it takes, but when mods do one thing and then ban a member for that exact same thing it makes the mods in general look pretty immature and frankly, dumb...
It would be great if everybody could come together, but until some of the mods change their "I'm right about everything, you're wrong because I'm a mod" attitude is not going to happen.
I think the biggest point people are trying to make about the OT situation as a whole is that in OT, a post doesn't even have to be reported and within the hour it's gone, where as in dev threads you can report posts and they'll still be there days later. If a little more of that attention was spent on the parts of the site THAT ACTUALLY MATTER, there would be less of this going on...
This is the only forum I've ever been a part of where there is more mod attention in an OT section than in parts of the forum that actually pertain to the existence of the site in the first place.... Not saying ot shouldn't be modded the way it is, but the rest of the site should have those same standards and no matter what any mod says, it simply isn't.
Mods should also be held to a higher standard and when they're allowed to troll threads with memes while other users get infractions for the same behavior something is horribly wrong there
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Lol...what are you talking about? What mod is doing something that's worth a ban?
I'm sorry to break it to you but we have way too many forums to cover to focus all of our attention here. Please come out of the OT forum every once in a while and you will see that moderating goes on elsewhere. Like I posted on another thread, OT gets away with a lot more than any other forum. So much so that some come from other forums and feel this is the place in which to break the rules and do whatever they feel like. I hope we all know that this isn't how it's supposed to be.
Ok no more memes and trolling from mods but I'm pretty sure that won't make anyone happy either. *Sigh*

9
vanessaem said:
Lol...what are you talking about? What mod is doing something that's worth a ban?
I'm sorry to break it to you but we have way too many forums to cover to focus all of our attention here. Please come out of the OT forum every once in a while and you will see that moderating goes on elsewhere. Like I posted on another thread, OT gets away with a lot more than any other forum. So much so that some come from other forums and feel this is the place in which to break the rules and do whatever they feel like. I hope we all know that this isn't how it's supposed to be.
Ok no more memes and trolling from mods but I'm pretty sure that won't make anyone happy either. *Sigh*
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I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*

flastnoles11 said:
9
I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*
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Ok I've done the very same thing somewhere. No one can seem to find that many posts of mine funny or trollish enough to post in this thread but somehow you found some examples...ok. Anyway, we seem to be going around in circles here. The mods are out to get you, some feel victimized, the mods are the enemy except a chosen few, xda is going down the tubes because moderators are moderating, circles and ponies.

vanessaem said:
Ok I've done the very same thing somewhere. No one can seem to find that many posts of mine funny or trollish enough to post in this thread but somehow you found some examples...ok. Anyway, we seem to be going around in circles here. The mods are out to get you, some feel victimized, the mods are the enemy except a chosen few, xda is going down the tubes because moderators are moderating, circles and ponies.
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Again nobody said anything like that, but it doesn't surprise me that you would twist everything to better suit you...
And don't act like you've never posted memes into threads (following the moderator crowd as to not feel left out I'm sure) I've seen it just like many others have, you're not the lone mod in ot that doesn't do it... Just because you're not funny enough to make this thread doesn't mean you haven't done it..

flastnoles11 said:
9
I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*
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You are correct. There have been times when we ask members to not do something and then went ahead and did it ourselves. That isn't really leading by example and we have listened to that complaint. It recently has been brought up with in our team chat and we listened to the complaint. We will no longer be spamming threads with memes. The only reason we really did it in the first place was at the request of others.
With that being said I am glad you brought this up. It is a perfect example of how if you all feel that something is out of place you guys can come to us. You didn't like us doing something that you guys were told not to do (even if it was at the request of others) and we agreed with the statement and listened to you all changing our ways. I know some of you have an unfavorable view of me, but please understand I always try to stay impartial and if any of you ever bring an issue to my attention I will do whatever is in my power to address it properly. So will the others in my team. If they don't, feel free to report the PM or contact our team leader @crachel as well.
As the others have said, from a team standpoint, the OT forum is nothing more than a very minor blimp on our radar. We have 70 other forums each with their own set of issues to deal with. To us, ot is nothing more than a forum on the list of forums we moderate. We really do not see it has any different than any other forum on XDA.
So I will ask that you please bring us any complaints you guys have before it builds up and explodes. Once people reach the point of no return generally there is no fixing the situation. It is something like that we would like to avoid and I assume so would you all. Us mods are truly here for you guys and we all know we wouldn't have xda without the members

flastnoles11 said:
Again nobody said anything like that, but it doesn't surprise me that you would twist everything to better suit you...
And don't act like you've never posted memes into threads (following the moderator crowd as to not feel left out I'm sure) I've seen it just like many others have, you're not the lone mod in ot that doesn't do it... Just because you're not funny enough to make this thread doesn't mean you haven't done it..
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Such anger. Too bad. So I posted a meme a few times. BTW...I never said anyone shouldn't post memes.
Oh boy...

mark manning said:
You are correct. There have been times when we ask members to not do something and then went ahead and did it ourselves. That isn't really leading by example and we have listened to that complaint. It recently has been brought up with in our team chat and we listened to the complaint. We will no longer be spamming threads with memes. The only reason we really did it in the first place was at the request of others.
With that being said I am glad you brought this up. It is a perfect example of how if you all feel that something is out of place you guys can come to us. You didn't like us doing something that you guys were told not to do (even if it was at the request of others) and we agreed with the statement and listened to you all changing our ways. I know some of you have an unfavorable view of me, but please understand I always try to stay impartial and if any of you ever bring an issue to my attention I will do whatever is in my power to address it properly. So will the others in my team. If they don't, feel free to report the PM or contact our team leader @crachel as well.
As the others have said, from a team standpoint, the OT forum is nothing more than a very minor blimp on our radar. We have 70 other forums each with their own set of issues to deal with. To us, ot is nothing more than a forum on the list of forums we moderate. We really do not see it has any different than any other forum on XDA.
So I will ask that you please bring us any complaints you guys have before it builds up and explodes. Once people reach the point of no return generally there is no fixing the situation. It is something like that we would like to avoid and I assume so would you all. Us mods are truly here for you guys and we all know we wouldn't have xda without the members
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Thank you for at least standing up and admitting to it instead of back pedaling like the other that decided to reply with a condescending, I'm better than you, attitude. (the exact thing I was talking about so it really got a good chuckle out of me) me and you have had words in the past, but you just earned some respect with your reply.
I honestly think it would make a difference if users didn't see mods do the exact thing they tell others not to do, maybe not much, but I believe it'll make a difference. I understand that being a mod is not a perfect science and mistakes will be made (being a mod elsewhere I know it's not the easiest thing sometimes), but honestly one of the biggest mistakes a mod can make is being above the rules they are supposed to enforce, one of them was being broken by mods regularly, seeing that change is a step in the right direction imo

can we stop these whatsapp threads/spams plzz!

every time I login theres a new whatsapp for this and that. Put it under one thread or something. itd getting pretty annoying!
:silly:

I feel ya. There are a lot of threads that need to be either linked or deleted. But XDA has turned into a thanks troll.
Can't even get relative information without scrolling through pages of trolls.

+1

That's why am using xda only in emergencies or when bored...
It used to be good ages ago, but nowerdays it for the masses and they are stupid.
Don't know the search function, post bull****, make it hard to get usefull information.
Stupid is spreading like Islam...
Maybe a bad comparison but that's how it is.
Even sammobile stopped leaking because of stupid people
Google made SD cards useless officially because of stupid people causing too many problems
Good series got cancelled because of being intellectually too demanding for the masses
...
I would pay 100 bucks for a forum with minimum IQ entry
Maybe it's far fetched and idiotic but it's getting worse and worse faster than ever before
Mods don't care... their job is to keep all happy... masses of idiots make tons of clicks -> better 4anking -> more money

Just remember this is a place where the uneducated can get helpful information. We all used to be uneducated at one point. We are here to help each other. If there was a group with only Albert Einstein's, what good would it be if you didnt share with the rest. Granted people do ask the same questions over and over but come on does it really piss you off that bad. I still think it's a dumb idea to give out your phone number to complete strangers so they can intant message you in the wee hours of the night. That sound like a group for geniuses.

Flyer.michael said:
That's why am using xda only in emergencies or when bored...
It used to be good ages ago, but nowerdays it for the masses and they are stupid.
Don't know the search function, post bull****, make it hard to get usefull information.
Stupid is spreading like Islam...
Maybe a bad comparison but that's how it is.
Even sammobile stopped leaking because of stupid people
Google made SD cards useless officially because of stupid people causing too many problems
Good series got cancelled because of being intellectually too demanding for the masses
...
I would pay 100 bucks for a forum with minimum IQ entry
Maybe it's far fetched and idiotic but it's getting worse and worse faster than ever before
Mods don't care... their job is to keep all happy... masses of idiots make tons of clicks -> better 4anking -> more money
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Click to collapse
I understand your frustration. Also, using Islam as an example is definitely a bad one. Please try to be be careful as to not cause offence.

jonahtriangle said:
Just remember this is a place where the uneducated can get helpful information. We all used to be uneducated at one point. We are here to help each other. If there was a group with only Albert Einstein's, what good would it be if you didnt share with the rest. Granted people do ask the same questions over and over but come on does it really piss you off that bad. I still think it's a dumb idea to give out your phone number to complete strangers so they can intant message you in the wee hours of the night. That sound like a group for geniuses.
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Click to collapse
Asking the same questions over and over isn't the only problem. There's also more people complaining about very small things, or trolling if you will. "Why doesn't it have x, or y, or z?" Even if it's not really a problem at all. Of course people come here uneducated, and they want to learn. That's great. If everyone could just be more polite, or modest, the community would be so much better. Some people on here are acting like they're twelve years old.

Mafle93 said:
Asking the same questions over and over isn't the only problem. There's also more people complaining about very small things, or trolling if you will. "Why doesn't it have x, or y, or z?" Even if it's not really a problem at all. Of course people come here uneducated, and they want to learn. That's great. If everyone could just be more polite, or modest, the community would be so much better. Some people on here are acting like they're twelve years old.
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This is true I would have to agree. I'm not sure it warrants doing a whats app thread that possibly the same kids are joining and will later ask stupid questions in that group.

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malybru
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