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(remove the spaces, sorry as I'm a new user)
To summarise, a Froyo build (not mentioned which one) has been sent to operators for testing. Guess that would mean a few more months before a build is even released to public. (Right after the announcement for Gingerbread? Ugh.)
---start of rant---
First of all, greetings to all (it's my first post). The Milestone is my first Android phone, and it's a love-hate relationship honestly. I made a mistake not knowing about the locked bootloader (who wouldn't? After all most Android phones don't come with a 2048-bit encrypted bootloader). I believe most Milestone users share the same experience with me, finding out the cruel truth only after purchase.
Why lock? I believe most users have already read the comment from Motorola's CEO, which is to protect users from damaging their phone. (I'll get the source article later.) Seriously? Look at the magic Droid users and developers have churned out.
The Milestone, like the Droid, is a capable phone. Not the best in the market now, but one of the better ones in the same price range.
If Motorola is unable to release updates in time, I personally feel that they should unlock our bootloader, and let the community do the magic. It's after all what people look for when they bought an open-sourced phone.
---end of rant---
I frequent the Milestone development forums (even though I've never left a message simply because I feel that I lack technical knowledge to be commenting on their wonderful works), and love what has been made for Milestone. However, there are limitations definitely, from what I gathered.
I humbly believe that if they unlocked the bootloader, they would change people's views of Motorola worldwide (like when I first got the Milestone, before finding out about the locked bootloader) and in the long run it's definitely beneficial. We're talking about European, Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian, Mexican, Canadian (?) and many more markets here, my dear big M.
Is there any petition already started to appeal to Motorola to unlock our bootloaders? After all, Android is about the power of the community.
Sorry for the long message, I just needed to get this off my mind, and would love to hear about views from the amazing xda community. I may be wrong, I may be biased, but I'm just a plain Milestone user.
Oh, I still love my Milestone anyway.
Thanks. =)
it'll probably never get unlocked, but it still sucks. i love being able to do damn neared anything i want to my Droid.
This is taken from engadget.com
HTC is legendary for its tacit support of the Android ROM cooking community. Motorola... not so much, thanks in large part to the company's policy of locking down the bootloader as a means to prevent unapproved software from running on its Droid handsets. An annoyance recently exacperated by a moderator of Moto's YouTube channel who suggested that customers looking to install custom ROMs should "buy elsewhere." Ouch. The resulting public relations kerfuffle then prompted Motorola to publish a clarification to its bootloader policy on Facebook:
We apologize for the feedback we provided regarding our bootloader policy. The response does not reflect the views of Motorola. We are working closely with our partners to offer a bootloader solution that will enable developers to use our devices as a development platform while still protecting our users' interests. More detailed information will follow as we get closer to availability.
Obviously, we'll have wait for said details to get official before calling this a shift in strategy. It's certainly an improvement over Moto's previous approach of lawyering-up with cease and desist orders. Perhaps Motorola is taking a cue from Microsoft who seems to have recently discovered that it's better to embrace than to annoy a motivated hacking community -- customers who tend to be a company's most dedicated fans and evangelists.
Good news?
Direct Link: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/21/motorola-ready-to-make-sweet-love-to-rom-devs-and-rooters/
its a maybe. maybe they will launch our froyo locked, maybe it'll be open. we never know.
i just read this also. this could be great news or another terrible taunt whih leads to nothing.
im not gonna get my hopes up just yet.
available Q1 of 2046, stay tuned! lol
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
Sounds like a PR stunt to quell the immediate situation before waiting for it to blow over.
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
I dont believe in manufaturer, i believe in XDA dev's..... this a "cold water" not a hope for us.
I hope this isn't just some PR bull and moto actually enables us to load custom kernels.
That press release says nothing about unlocking the bootloader, only that they will help devs which could mean anything!
DummyPLUG said:
available Q1 of 2046, stay tuned! lol
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
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LMFAO!!!
i dnt believe motorolsh!t will do that(unlocking the bootloader)
I so love my new HTC Desire! couldnt stand this situation anymore....! sorry guys...
It is just the usual PR crap which companies like them give when they screw up on the social networking front. The "..buy elsewhere.." was just a such screw up. A Royal one I would say!
They are now trying to calm down the situation by giving us this crap..
I think it's just a excuse about the bad comments in youtube video, nothing more than that.
DummyPLUG said:
available Q1 of 2046, stay tuned!
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2046???
...that seems a little too soon... dont ya think?
Menelkir said:
I think it's just a excuse about the bad comments in youtube video, nothing more than that.
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That seems most likely but perhaps the fallout and bad press from that will push them to do what they should have done long ago, free the bootloader in some form so we can get custom ROMs on it.
Dyonas said:
That seems most likely but perhaps the fallout and bad press from that will push them to do what they should have done long ago, free the bootloader in some form so we can get custom ROMs on it.
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Yes, I really want to see this happening, but I don't have any hope about Motorola opening the bootloader.
If they do, ok, excelent news to the community, to all developers that will make even better ROMs and for all of us that have a Motorola phone. We can see the quality of alternative ROMs for Motorola Milestone today as example. It's obvious that the only limitation is the bootloader, so the quality can be massively improved if we can change and optimize the kernel.
But I think all people here are already tired from Motorola's position about his costumers: Censorship on comments (youtube and motorola forums), censorship on criticism (even the very good ones, Motorola does not seem to care about the opinion of his costumers), cease and desist in community cases like the ROM of Droid X and sites with roms (that its very stupid IMHO)... and the list goes on...
By the way, my only hope is, if that happens and I have not exchanged my phone yet, good.. I'll make good use of it. But honestly? I have now my last phone from Motorola.
Am I missing something? Forgive my ignorance, but what is "locked up" about the bootloader? I'm running CM6 along with the overclocked CM6 kernel, and there are tons of other custom ROMs out for the Droid as it stands. What is restricted by Motorola?
vapor63 said:
Am I missing something? Forgive my ignorance, but what is "locked up" about the bootloader? I'm running CM6 along with the overclocked CM6 kernel, and there are tons of other custom ROMs out for the Droid as it stands. What is restricted by Motorola?
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Milestone users cannot use custom kernels. All the AOSP ROMs still have to use the SAME kernel, supplied by Mot. They lock it to the bootloader. This means problems trying to compile modules and customer kernels and no way to patch bugs.
It is much more work for devs to get stuff done for the milestone than other phone (htc comes to mind).
Examples of issues: battery life, phone sleeping, waiting for compatible kernel or hack for new android versions, swap support, vpn support, other filesystem support... the list goes on.
But you allowed to be happy with your phone. Not everybody needs these things...
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
He has a very good point. Where other android device builders seem to be promoting development (Huawei excluded, theyre miser's just like Motorola), this company seems to be more prominent on the restriction of development on their devices.
One very good reason for this is that Motorola has been such a huge phone developer for such a long time, that they have probably let it go to their head. Now instead of saying "our consumers said they need this", they're sayin "we think they really only need this." I've used Motorola phones for about 8 years now, and I would DEFINITELY say someone forgot that their customers put them where their at.
I agree. Someone needs to get out there and give them a taste of Good Customer Service. I dont think restricting dev's is a great marketing idea, or revenue booster anyways. BUt then again, to each, his own.
This is PR.Nothing more.
Know motorola they do not update РСТ(Russian legal)Milestone, they do not
need to unlock this crap bootloader.
We seem to have a lot of confusion in the Atrix forum about the implications of an encrypted and or locked bootloader.
What is a bootloader?
See this article for a decent description.
Is the bootloader on the Atrix encrypted?
We don't know and likely will not know until the phone is released and people smarter than I can look at it. No reviews, including the Engadget review, have looked at whether the bootloader is encrypted. However, some have inaccurately said that it is because the installation of non-market apps is not permitted the bootloader is encrypted. However, this is a separate issue and is a requirement imposed by ATT that has nothing to do with the bootloader.
Why do people assume the bootloader is encypted?
Motorola has a strong recent history of releasing encrypted bootloaders, see the Droid X and Milestone phones. Most of the current discussion about the bootloader is limited to what we have seen from Motorola in the past. That being said, there is some hope that the bootloader will not be encrypted. In prior phones, such as the Droid X and Milestone, Motorola relied on the eFuse feature of Texas Instruments OMAP processors. Given that the Atrix uses an Nvidia Tegra 2 chip it is unlikely that Motorola can utilize the same eFuse technology.
As a result, there is some reason to be optimistic that the Atrix will only have a locked and not encrypted bootloader.
What is the difference between a locked and encrypted bootloader?
This is a good post on the topic. Locked bootloaders are on almost all android phones, including the Nexus S. Although certain locks, such as the Nexus S, are easier to open. A locked bootloader is essentially software that is written in such a way so as to prevent you from gaining access. So far XDA devs have been very skilled at cracking locked bootloaders by finding holes in this software.
An encrypted bootloader, from my understanding, is not itself encrypted, but signed by an encryption key. The phones hardware will refuse to boot unless the software that it attempts to boot is signed with the correct encryption key. The only options to crack this protection appear to be to go around the bootloader which is unlikely or to crack the encryption which also appears unlikely. See this post for more discussion.
What does an encypted bootloader mean to me?
This post at Android Forums provides a great summary of the effects of an encrypted bootloader. If you have the time, the entire thread is very informative.
The bad news is an encrypted bootloader likely means no custom kernels. This means that custom ROMs must rely on the official kernel. It also means the OS version (Froyo, Gingerbread . . .) is limited to whatever the official release is. The good news is that root access is still be possible. Root access allows you to run certain applications as the root or administrator. This allows for a lot of customization and hacking of your phone.
In the end, an encrypted bootloader may hinder your ability to completely hack the phone.
Can an encrypted bootloader be cracked?
Unlikely. For a brief discussion see this post and read the thread for a better understanding. I am aware that there is a team working on cracking the Milestone encryption using the BIONIC platform and a distributed computing effort, see androinc.net. However, even that team admits that the second coming of the dinosaurs may occur before they crack the encryption. I believe on the Milestone that the encryption is 1024 bit, which according to androinc.net may take hundreds of thousands of years to crack using a brute force method, even on a distributed computing platform.
Can a locked bootloader be cracked?
We won't know until we see it, but likely yes. Generally all software coded by humans has some error in it that can be exploited.
Why should I care if the bootloader protection cannot be circumvented?
You don't have to. But, in today's environment, consumers are tied to a 2 year contracts but new phones are released on a 1 year or less timeline. This means the device you buy today will likely be forgotten by your carrier and the phone manufacturer long before your contract is up. The inability to load custom kernels means that consumers cannot upgrade their own phones after the manufacturer decides to no longer support the phone. The decision to stop supporting upgrades often occurs well before a phones 2 year birthday, see the Motorola Upgrade Roadmap.
In addition, many people believe that they have purchased the phone hardware and should be permitted to do anything that they please with the hardware.
** I do not claim to be an expert, I have only recanted the results of my research. If I have made a mistake please let me know.
thanks for writing this i was going to my self today as i have been fighting people all day with this, i was trying to get motorola to tell me as i had a few reps available in a forum and one said that he will get back to me shortly with an answer ... but i was having to do so with people that dont know the difference chiming in and making the q&a with moto hard even for some one who does know what hes talking about ... any how i will update when i get my reply, and thanks again for putting info in right place btw up at top you put milestone instead of atrix
What a great and informative post. THIS SHOULD BE STICKIED for the time being to prevent future threads that ask the same questions. Great job.
Sent from my MSM using XDA App
sdlopez83 said:
What a great and informative post. THIS SHOULD BE STICKIED for the time being to prevent future threads that ask the same questions. Great job.
Sent from my MSM using XDA App
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+1 here, very informative.
Thanks and sorry about the typos.
Nice job both in the layout and in maintaining an unbiased take on the possibilities.
thankyou for explaining that so well
can we get a MOD to sticky this for a while, at least until we know whether it is encrypted or what not. could really cut down on the "does the bootloader restrict me from doing xxxxxxxxxxx?" chatter on all the threads.
+1 Great post! Guess we'll have to wait for quantum computers before we can crack 1024bit encryption in under a lifetime (seconds probably.) But very informative, I'm off to read everything you linked in your post.
Excellent post sir!
Great post! This should be required reading...
That means that if the Atrix 4G is HSUPA disabled, there's no way around it?
royalemint said:
That means that if the Atrix 4G is HSUPA disabled, there's no way around it?
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please post in the general forum where a thread is going about this. however, it can mostly likely be resolved with a new modem driver.
I have an Atrix 4G in my hand... how can I find out if the bootloader is encrypted?
EGBTMagus said:
I have an Atrix 4G in my hand... how can I find out if the bootloader is encrypted?
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I would like to know also. I know there are other threads about this the only problem is that there are 6 different answers/opinions.
Does not look good:
The Atrix 4G has a locked and encrypted bootloader. More bootloader related announcements are forthcoming.
http://getsatisfaction.com/motorola...tm_medium=email&utm_source=reply_notification
TinyRK said:
Does not look good:
The Atrix 4G has a locked and encrypted bootloader. More bootloader related announcements are forthcoming.
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... and here just for the record:
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45249?start=15&tstart=0
meta96 said:
... and here just for the record:
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45249?start=15&tstart=0
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I saw both of those. I am not totally convinced by a PR response, even if it is from Moto. So far the devs here in XDA seem to think it is only signed. I am inclined to believe them more, at least until I see otherwise.
Also, I need to update my OP and will try and do so tonight.
krkeegan said:
I saw both of those. I am not totally convinced by a PR response, even if it is from Moto. So far the devs here in XDA seem to think it is only signed. I am inclined to believe them more, at least until I see otherwise.
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45249?start=15&tstart=0
Also, I need to update my OP and will try and do so tonight.
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... the number of page views for this topic is bad PR, isn't it? It is just a act/react thing, you know ...
Who is your daddy and what does he do?
I dunno why but that's immediately what I thought of, lol
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
This thread is my first at XDA, and from my experience a worthy device to be discussing here.
I am expanding my nerdly endeavors to my new toy these days. I have a solid device in the Bionic, but there's still a feeling of betrayal stabbing into my core.
So what's up with this locked bootloader thing, and what are the implications?
To those, like I, who have bought a Motorola/Droid with a surely locked bootloader, might be wondering WTF?
While trying to boot into recovery, being new to Android phones, I couldn't for the damn succeed. I wonder how many noobs will never root their Motorola phones, as they fail to "Bootstrap" into recovery.
Bootstrapping into recovery, what?
Yes, dear noob if you might humbly continue to read, equipping your bootstraps is quite an important step of the process to being leet,
What you need is a way to change what boots when you start the phone, and after rooting you can install a BOOTSTRAP as it were, to instruct the bootloader as you please. In this case, it would please you to boot RECOVERY. And certainly we all understand the implications of root by now?
Language can be tricky for us newbies! Even then already-nerd kinds!
Here you are dear reader is a reverse-tutorial on our Bionic, and I presume other Motorola Droid branded devices. Let us discuss something more important at hand -- What isn't possible because of the lock-down on what happens when our phone boots? For one, I can't get the hours back I wasted while wondering WTF?
The Bionic is personally my first Android device. My ex-phone (previous to the Bionic) was Windows Mobile 6.1 as it was sold to me. Non-touchscreen I might add. Nobody cared to hack it to bits to see what was possible. From the prison of my old cell phone rose the desire to get back on the right team, where things actually continue to develop and work, and actually get better through time, and where I can freely learn how to do anything on my phone.
Webtop, for me, is something I will be promptly fixing and hacking to bits as time permits.
4G upload rate+inbuilt linux box = i want 2.
My only question remains, what isn't possible on our Bionic?
- No trackball means terminal programs or emulated keyboards typically won't be able to use necessary shortcuts. Ouch,
- Locked bootloader means something I'm not certain how to explain. I will update this note as somebody can explain more pointedly.
And feel free to contribute any elephants or brick walls you might notice about our pimping Droid Bionics. Keep it hacky fellow consumers.
Reserved so I can be the judge of what isn't possible on my damn phone!
(Maybe, I might suggest a different title and moving this to Development for better eyes to contibute?)
I am selling mine tomorrow and buying a rezound for now or maybe trade that in for the GNex. All depends on if the RZD gets s-off in the next couple weeks. I have never had a phone with a locked bootloader, and if you have only had phones with locked bootloaders you don't know what you are missing. I do, and it rubs me raw. Exact reason I went back to my tbolt, and found it to be a better phone. Unlocked bootloader. Will probably never buy a Moto phone again. This has soured my taste for their phones.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I have looked around the internet and finally found over on a sprint forum some sad news about rooting. So in the case most of you are unaware, the US models for the Galaxy s9 have had their OEM Unlock(Bootloader unlock) option disabled. I finally found the reason why on an old post back from the Galaxy s8. Please don't harp on me that its a different phone because its the concept discussed that actually gives the real reason why vendors like sprint have disabled the option!
"Link to below quote: community.sprint.com/t5/Samsung-Board/OEM-Unlock-option-is-gone/td-p/965240"]https://community.sprint.com/t5/Samsung-Board/OEM-Unlock-option-is-gone/td-p/965240:
"Quoted from Community manager, seawolf's post!"
Re: OEM Unlock option is gone
First of all, wow @zahale! its my job to be somewhat aware of our current population and to keep an eye out for knowledgeable posters (we like to try to make those people Advocates, like @DJ_Damjano and @Fireguy_6364). I have run across several of your comments in this space lately and you're definitely above the curve when it comes to technical device knowledge and experience. I'm kind of following you around now just to learn Smiley Wink
I was pretty sure I knew why Sprint locks down developer options but I put the question to some of my device folks in conversation yesterday. The explanation probably won't be something you like, but hopefully, it'll be something you can understand. Unfortunately, as with many things, knowing why also won't change anything but you asked a fair question and I wanted to try to give you a fair answer.
Sprint locks things like boot loaders down to control the average customer experience and to prevent a novice user from accidentally damaging the device or negatively affecting performance. While technically such a change isn't Sprint's fault, I can tell you from experience from when I was in customer service that most customers think it is and correcting the problem, if its possible, can be a challenge at best.
Unfortunately, this is an all or nothing kind of situation. We either leave it open for everyone or we lock it down for everyone. Since we can't customize the experience based on user knowledge, we try to optimize it for the novice, which means some of the more advanced setting areas on the phone are locked down.
This is clearly important to you and I can understand why. With this particular phone there isn't anything we can do on our end to unlock the developer options for one individual. When you are ready to upgrade again, you might want to look for factory unlocked versions of the phones you like or OEMs that leave theirs unlocked (although that's harder to verify). In this case, the developer options are not locked down in the factory unlocked versions of the S8 and S8+.
SeaWolf
Sprint Community Manager & Customer Advocate
Captain of the Vicious Cream-puff
I encourage you to post your questions on the community, give Kudos when earned and always mark the correct answer as "Accepted Solution".
Like SeaWolf states, it is just easier after your contract is done to just buy a OEM unlockable version. They do this for customer based reasons to make a novice experience for all users so that new users can't brick their phone on accident messing with settings. Sorry all but OEM unlocking will never be an option for g960U users.
All US (snapdragon) model S9s have a locked bootloader, it has been the case for a long time since at least the S7....
*Detection* said:
All US (snapdragon) model S9s have a locked bootloader, it has been the case for a long time since at least the S7....
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Yes we already know this, but this post is an update on the reason why its that way. I have looked everywhere and even asked around but no one gave me a reason why they made it this way. I finally found this post and was just sharing it for news so that people can finally understand and get an update.
WatchersGrim said:
Yes we already know this, but this post is an update on the reason why its that way. I have looked everywhere and even asked around but no one gave me a reason why they made it this way. I finally found this post and was just sharing it for news so that people can finally understand and get an update.
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but the info is nothing new plus its just a thread of people living in the stone age mixing up sim unlock with oem unlock and then complaining about it.
US snapdagon device's bootlaoder arent unlockable its a very very well know fact. any other device destined NOT for American soil can have its BL unlocked and probably be rooted.( so thats any device made for the rest of the world). surely this info has been plastered all over xda...
https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...s-recoveries--other-development/root-t4041815
root is out
I have been rooting and modding various and sundry devices since 2011. I find, for my purposes, the s9 doesn't need it. Of course YMMV