Related
EDIT: I changed my mind, if someone provides me a working iphone ROM for the touch pro 2, I'll give you $1000. If you want details of what I want, I'll give them but it would require the ability to sync with itunes, all sprint cdma radios to work, wifi, bluetooth, 3g, usb, internet tethering, text messaging, basically, a 99% working ROM. I know the money isn't much but that's about how much an iphone would be worth to me.
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
ChristopherJLee said:
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
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There are sooooo many reasons this can't and won't happen. Where shall I start? The vastly different screen resolution? The completely different hardware which has absolutely no support? The bootloader? Or maybe the fact it's closed source, and thus can't easily (if at all) be modified to the point where it runs on our devices? (There probably isn't even a HAL, or only a minimal one at best). Maybe the fact that there would be lawsuits up the a** from Apple if this ever happened, not 6-digit salaries and job opportunities. I personally would rather see developers devoting time to creating a fully, working port of Linux than a half-a**ed iPhone OS port which doesn't boot into a GUI or even a console (if it boots at all), and doesn't even support basic elements of iPhone OS like multi-touch and synchronization. This idea has been suggested over the years quite a few times, and it's never gotten anywhere because there are so many things working against it.
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project. Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day. Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive. Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project.
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I disagree, the shortage is not from lack of talented developers who can port operating systems, it's that some of the talented developers don't have the motivation to do it. i'm hoping that my post will spur some of the ones dreaming about truly making it big
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day.
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I agree there would be issues but like all software, it can be modified. for example, up-scaling could run as a default for the entire system as there would be no need to have the iphone running 800 x 480, it could be the default iphone resolution
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive.
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Click to collapse
You're probably right, no one on this forum has access but someone's friend of a friend that works at apple or is a consultant does. Yes, you can buy touch pro 2's on the internet but there's a limited supply. in april of 2009 it was reported 37 million iphones/ipod touches have been sold. this is over a 3 year period. in a 2 day period 270,000 iphones were sold. are there even 270,000 touch pro 2 users? how many of us have the money and the means to end our contract and pay for an iphone? how many of us simply don't do it because of the cost and/or cons of using att or a phone with no keyboard? there aren't enough touch pro 2's in existance
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
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Click to collapse
I agree that Apple would do all of this, worldwide fame and recognition of your talents. Surely someone would face the consequences than stay nameless in a basement somewhere for the rest of their life. Someone is reading this that can and will do it because it is achievable.
aZzz.bZzz said:
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
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yes please...........oh sorry i was only joking
apple don't like it.......
when people clone or try to copy there OS
they have and will come down on us like a ton of bricks
this is a reason why people don't try it.
I thought the interwebs is soo vast far and wide.
But I just cant seem to hide from these Iphone crap...
Dumb idea...
As a developer, there is no way in h*ll I would try this. First off, Apple would rain fire and brimstone down on top of you. Apple is one of the most controlling and paranoid companies on the planet. XDA would get shutdown almost immediately just for being associated with it.
Besides, I like not being a sheep. So why would I want to imitate one? Let the sheeple be happy with their device. I'll be happy with mine.
i'll happily be a sheeple
data that's relevant to you individually? why aren't any other phones doing this exact thing as well? it's been 3 years since the iphone came out, surely someone outside of apple realizes the benefits of the iphone and should be building it into wm6 or 7, and android. a phone that actually uses your current location to suggest food and things that you can enjoy that you would otherwise miss the opportunity or waste your time looking for? the games, the programs, the applications, are all built well and perform well because of the os that is used. the iphone os, interface, all of it, is genius. there are things to improve, but let someone crack it and then the rest of us will come up with improvements
I'll port this over if you can get me the iPhone OS source code. I'm thinking you'll run into trouble though, because it's not publicly available
Please read up on development before making such an outlandish request
this thread is done
as if we let it happen here we will be contacted by apple
and they don't like it when people play with there toys.
thread closed
I realise that this is very much a "how-long-is-a-piece-of-string" type question, but I'd really like to get some idea of the costs and time involved in developing an app for the Android market compared to the iPhone.
My understanding is that it doesn't cost developers to submit apps to the Android Marketplace (as opposed to the iPhone Developer’s Program which costs $99 a year). So there's a saving there.
But in terms of development costs, would you suggest that hiring a developer to create an Android app would be cheaper because the market's smaller? Would it make no difference at all? Would it be harder to find a developer to code for Android?
Basically, any thoughts anyone has on this would be really appreciated.
Cheers,
Why don't you try and find out? Ask some (android)developers what app x would cost and ask some (iphone)developers the same
for most applications it should be cheaper to hire an Android programmer because you develop in standard Java and this is the most widely used language in computer science education. Eclipse is also a standard development environment many young programmers are familiar with. Even I was able to code my first Android application in a matter of minutes.
Objective-C on the other side is a nieche language. Of course, every good progammer can learn that language in a couple of hours or at least days but there are definitly more experienced Java programmers out there and they can reuse code (snippets). Java code is so ubiqitous you can find for a lot of problems coded and tested solutions. So two reasons: there are much more Java programmers out there and they can develop faster. Specific Android experience is not needed as long as you don't want to program kernel extensions or things like that.
But I guess the Apple-market is still more profitable because Apple users are trained to spend money. So even as it may cost more to develop it also brings in more revenue. I hope the sheer amount of Android handsets out there will outweigh this advantage soon.
Humm .. i think this is a tricky question.
While it will definitely be cheaper to develop an application for android, the question you might want to ask (depending on what you want to do) is what is the ROI of an Android application versus and IOS application.
And even then, depending on the type of application & the demographic your app will be targeting (not to mention usability, design, general app quality) the response will likely vary quite a bit too.
But globally yeah, it's cheaper and less a hassle to make an android app i'd say. ..then again, i have an allergy to apples, and this is an android forum after all
robert_tlse said:
Humm .. i think this is a tricky question.
While it will definitely be cheaper to develop an application for android, the question you might want to ask (depending on what you want to do) is what is the ROI of an Android application versus and IOS application.
And even then, depending on the type of application & the demographic your app will be targeting (not to mention usability, design, general app quality) the response will likely vary quite a bit too.
But globally yeah, it's cheaper and less a hassle to make an android app i'd say. ..then again, i have an allergy to apples, and this is an android forum after all
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Click to collapse
Hehe, I agree on that Robert.
ten chars!!!
You can also spend many months developing an iPhone app, only to have it rejected by Apple for no good reason. That's quite expensive.
It is, however, unescapable that there are a lot of iOS users who buy a lot of apps from the App Store, so the potential ROI is higher. There's also only a few platforms to develop for (although this is becoming increasingly less the case).
Would like for Android to have more focus though; it's getting there!
(The diminutive term "app" does irk me slightly - Apple have popularised it in relation to phones when they convinced everyone that the iPhone was the first phone to support third-party software. Guess it's stuck now though.)
then why are Android apps more expensive??
Android apps aren't more expensive. They have by far the largest proportion of free apps on any mobile platform and even those that do cost are comparatively cheap.
Android will probably be easier and cheaper to develop for..the only concern people have with Android is fragmentation...aka when developing you gotta decide which versions and up to develop for and choose the appropriate functions for the documentation. Of course in the end all the old devices will upgrade eventually and be compatible anyways..
My hope is though Apple lets 3rd party development tools back in...cause that way you can use Adobe AIR and make an App for both Android and iPhone at the same time....How I wish for cross platform app development...but Apple will fight it till the and cause if they don't they will loose one of their biggest advantages...
In my opinion Android is just now getting to the average joe especially in the United States. Older people are even trying the droid line of devices since there are so many to choose from now on all carriers (vs 1 iphone on AT&T forever just revised of course) So yeah, even people here in hicksville, MO USA are even trying it out go figure. If everyone hasn't heard of HTC or Android, they're definitely being introduced to it now through the Galaxy S series since it's on almost all carriers and has some snazzy media buzz.
With all these new cells and tablets coming out I give it a mere 2-3years and everyone will know our lil green droid dude globally, and use it on multiple devices around the house. Just my theory. I'm sure the Marketplace will grow 10/fold in that time, peace!
I guess there are a few things to keep in mind:
Politics:
1) Apple tries to regulate what is permitted to be installed on their phones. They don't provide any real guidelines, nor do they tell you in advance if your application will be accepted. You'll only discover after submitting your app that it isn't permitted. So they waste your time, and numerous high end projects have developed their application only to discover Apple blocks them because "they are duplicating functionality" *cough competing*. Yes, lots of money has been lost.
2) Apple is Non-Disclosure Agreement overload. Send an email to apple and it always says "this information is confidential". Basically, Apple's agreement is so bad (unless it's changed recently) that they can cancel the account/sue you any time they wish. That increases your risk further.
3) iPhone's can be jail-broken to install 3rd party apps, but many people wont. Even if the Google store wont accept your app, they can manually install it, or you can use another store... Without jailbreaking.
4) Many developers often complain of long delays getting their apps approved, and when removed from the store by Apple, they have to flood Apple with emails for reason's why. On android, you don't even need to use the App store, in fact, Android has the benefit of allowing paid apps to be sold in countries with export restrictions (because they can sell it via other means).
5) Piracy is possibly more rife on Android, however, Google are apparently implementing an API which allows apps to check if they were purchased for that phone, which should strongly reduce piracy once available (because it means that dodgy stores will need to actually crack the programs). Once this is implemented, hopefully it will stop the jackass spammers from selling pirated stuff.
Development Process:
1) iPhones use objective C, Android uses Dalvik. Dalvik is VERY similar to java, one simply needs to learn the differences. Objective C is also quite easy to learn though, but it probably takes more experience to do well (because c++ doesn't have the idea of selectors). If you try creating apps on the iPhones without using objective C originally though, your app might be removed. On android, frankly, Google doesn't give a damn provided, it works.
2) Big win for Android here, the Android SDK works on Linux,Windows AND OSX. It integrates with eclipse which already has a large user-base. Whereas, you need to buy a mac for code for the iPhone, and the SDK is OSX only.
3) That being said, you can make a cross-platform webapp that can be sold for both, but the user needs to be online.
4) Objective C is compiled code, whilst Java is bytecode. Bytecode can run as fast as compiled (with some initial overhead). Native sounds great, but if Apple ever does a processor change for their phones, it might be a world of hurt. If massively-multicore mobile processors are released, Android is probably better suited. That being said, by then, you'll probably need to fix some things in your app anyway because of API changes.
Actual sales:
1) Apparently in the past, you would have sold more in the Apple market. However, in the past, Android mobiles were actually quite rare because Android stunk. Froyo is probably the first Android OS that can compete against iOS effectively because it now supports JIT. There is also a much greater emphasis on Android these days in advertising, and I see more Android advertising than iPhone. Possibly inaccurate predictions suggest they will overtake the iPhone in 2012 too.
2) Sales figures don't represent profit though (so whilst iOS may generate more still, it's less than Apple claims). A google market account costs $25, whereas an Apple iPhone development account costs $99. Furthermore, you need Apple equipment to code for the Apple market (which can be significantly more expensive than PC's), and there is no estimates done to determine profits lost by being rejected from the Apple app store (there have been major projects which cost thousands to develop which have been rejected). So greater overheads on the Apple store, which means for cheap/quick apps, you are probably safer developing for Android (especially if you don't already own a mac).
My opinion:
For me, developing major apps is too high risk for iPhones. Although, if your app is approved, there are potentially bigger payoffs than Android. For small apps which don't have a predictable further, you may earn more on Android because of lower overheads. If you app is rejected for iPhone though for competing, you wasted weeks/months of your life, and need to use a 3rd party store (since only hacked phones can use them though, you dramatically decrease your sales instantly).
Anyway, my thoughts are that by the end of the year, everyone will know what Android is, and you may start to see manufacturers getting together to launch MAJOR campaigns to promote Android, especially since they now all have a common enemy (Apple basically took a cheapshot at other major manufacturers to justify their design flaw). Apple is only a small guy when it comes to manufacturing phones, and so it's as though they threw a few tiny pebbles at a team of football players to show off. Of course, some of those football players have already started retaliating, and it just depends on how annoyed they got.
Personally, I think iPhone would be great if they didn't do the "anti-competitive" thing they always do, but as it stands, I am now doing my Oracle/Sun SCJP, and hope to get into Android coding soon. If Apple starts acting less evil though, I will take another look in their direction, but they are mistreating the users they need the most, the developers. It's a pity, because Apple really has potential.
Source: I haven't sold any apps on either market yet, but I have mostly decided on developing for Android.
Developing new iPhone app looking for developer
I have a cool iPhone app idea it's a very simple game that I could like to create I am looking for a developer in the Los angeles area I am new here so please if your interested or can redirect me to the right person I would appreciate it thank you...email me with any info
Let's develop for the Adam tablet!
One rule! No Questions in this development section!
Eggsellent....... Curious about what type of rooting protection it has built in. Rohan mentioned something about it the other day in an interview. Anyone have any ideas on what it might be? The company seems pretty bent on customer service, but at the same time, probably doesn't want too many people messing around with Eden.... Oh well. We shall see.
http://notioninkhacks.com/index.php/2010/12/22/questions-answer-with-rohan-of-notion-ink-part-2/
[ANDY] Why did you add protection against rooting?
[ROHAN] Its a tough call. Its not impossible to root Adam, but that would lead into cancellation of warranty. We are in talks with our partner to understand how we can resolve this.
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I already like this thread a lot...
I hope I get mine before I have to head back to school so I have time do something before spring. I dont wanna leave all the fun to you guys.
This is Andy from Notion Ink Hacks, I have sent a few emails to Rohan asking him to be different and allow for root access. At the end of the day if the root process is easy, the recovery tools are available, and good software is written for the device, I believe it will actually lower their return rates and promote growth, development, and excitement. You all think I am crazy for feeling this way?
zerofeel said:
This is Andy from Notion Ink Hacks, I have sent a few emails to Rohan asking him to be different and allow for root access. At the end of the day if the root process is easy, the recovery tools are available, and good software is written for the device, I believe it will actually lower their return rates and promote growth, development, and excitement. You all think I am crazy for feeling this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only reason I buy android devices is to be able to fully customize them. I like the option to remove factory apps, change color and modify the device to fit my needs. Also one thing is that if a devices is rooted and modified it can easily be undone if the device breaks. all companies are doing by making rooting void the warranty is making someone spend 2 extra minutes with the device before sending it in.
As for you point about return rate and growth and excitement is completely true. People follow developers and are excited when they release something. The reason I am on these forums right now is because I am always messing around with my phone. And it will defiantly lower return rates because if people dont like something it can be changed, there is a reason we waited a year to get the Adam and didnt setter for the iPad or another android device.
Not crazy at all! Thats great news. I'm looking forward to Jan 15 (ish). Happy New Year all.
Zooming
The one thing im a bit concerecned on is the zooming in the browser i think it looks laggy and slow. I either Notion Ink needs to fix this or someone from the community needs to helps out. I think the Adam with Honeycomb will be the best tablet out there. Imagine all the good things from honeycomb seen in heaps of videos today and then just swipe back up and there is eden. I can just see not only this tablet but the whole of Notion Ink grow and grow.
Yes, Honeycomb will be sweet on the Adam, unless the lack of apps makes it useless. I'm not sure what Notion Ink is thinking by not adding the Google Market. I had a Viewsonic G-tab for a few days (viewing angle was horrible) and before I rooted it and added the Market hack it was essentially a giant weather display/to-do list.
IMO the real Google Market will be my first reason to root the Adam.
I agree they do need the Google Market and I'm pretty sure that they will end up supporting it. Its just at the moment they are running 2.2/2.3 which is mobile phone software in which you need to be able to make phone calls or something for google to support them and give them the market. So once 3.0 comes out which is tablet optimised which will include android market for tablets, Notion Ink will be working there buts of to get the update out.
zerofeel said:
This is Andy from Notion Ink Hacks, I have sent a few emails to Rohan asking him to be different and allow for root access. At the end of the day if the root process is easy, the recovery tools are available, and good software is written for the device, I believe it will actually lower their return rates and promote growth, development, and excitement. You all think I am crazy for feeling this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing is that it's always the wrong people rooting for the wrong reasons, messing things up... Quality Control is tough when you're dealing with stupid..
Not a flame or a bash on anyone, but you know those are out there and the first thing they will post is, I BRICKED.. blah NI Adams is the sucks.. and then the moron trains follows.
There was mention of "root protection", but I am sure those that know will get it done, hopefully there isn't some automated, script or 1click "no I really can mess my tablet up" process too soon after
-CC
lilmikz said:
I agree they do need the Google Market and I'm pretty sure that they will end up supporting it. Its just at the moment they are running 2.2/2.3 which is mobile phone software in which you need to be able to make phone calls or something for google to support them and give them the market. So once 3.0 comes out which is tablet optimised which will include android market for tablets, Notion Ink will be working there buts of to get the update out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As they said in an interview, they saw no need to pay to certify for market, when the market doesn't really have anything to offer tablets, but there will still be "sideloading"... until such time as it is worth it..
-CC
I anticipate that rooting the adam will be equivalent to the method done on the G-tab. As open as Rohan would like the ADAM to be, his partners and/or investors would definitely demand some sort of protection especially if it ships pre loaded with premier apps from various partners. It would kick ass if it was shipped with Aldiko premium, but i'm pretty sure I've read about talks of Kobo and NI partnering up with a launch app. Nonetheless, rooting of the adam will happen most likely before the second batch of shipments are deployed.
Regards,
Jason
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Prema999 said:
http://notioninkhacks.com/index.php/2010/12/22/questions-answer-with-rohan-of-notion-ink-part-2/
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It will surely be rooted. After all, it's no longer illegal in the United States... it's only a matter of time once it gets into the hands of enough motivated people.
Sad that this is the position Notion Ink takes, though.
Isn't it possible to download the apps from the market on your phone and transfer them to the adam????
But market of no market. 2th pre-order I'm in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Notion Ink Hacks will be working on trying to get recovery, root, market, and swype. If your a hacker and want to help stop on by. As you see my team and I will be contributing here as well. Working together and getting this stuff done quickly will give the Adam a solid foothold in the market place.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Can't really transfer licenses for paid apps.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Meego On Adam
Just putting it out there. I think Meego would be pretty cool to see on the Notion Ink Adam. I seen a custom ui from evolve another hidden manufacture of tablets and they seem to have done a great job with the ui. Check there site out evolve. com. au and go to the meego slate under products and tell me what you think. The site takes a bit to load so dont be impatient. =]
Its killing me waiting for my order to come...I cannot wait to see the development on this!
I would love to see the xbox 360 controller work with the adam. There are alot of cool games that I believe would be awesome with the use of a usb/wireless controller.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Greetings all, hope the weekend is going smashing for everyone. As we all know, B&N has been very... lax (obvious) in their promises to update the NC with more user-friendly capabilities. For lack of a better phrase, I've had enough. Today, 2-26-11, I sent B&N a rather abrasive email in the hopes to start some form of open discussion, express my opinion, and inform them that they've got some 'splainin' to do.
Below is the email I sent, although I have edited my name and phone number that I included, for security purposes. As a note, if the email I receive in return uses the phrase "we are working on it as fast as we can," "please be patient," or some other pandering jargon, I do plan to resend this every Saturday until I either receive a response that has some weight behind it, or receive a Cease and Desist writ from them.
Why? For the simple fact that I want them to keep their promise and provide us, the user, with the better experience that we are requesting.
I will continue to update this thread with any following information that comes my way.
-----
Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
Saved for whatever happens later.
Wow... honestly i think that letter is the worst thing ive read. Honestly, i dont care that they havent updated it. Its rather a blessing how unlocked they left the device. Fact of the matter is that the Nook is a eReader, a highly over powered eReader, that they built and developed ontop of the android system for the ease of use and not having to build a entire custom OS.
Honestly the nook color is the best 250 ive spent in a long time. If i wanted a "tablet" i would have bought a gtab or galaxy. Its pretty common practice for companies nowadays to delay updating software. Honestly why update software when 1: it works.. pretty well too 2: technology is moving faster then software. why update a outdated device?
Its up to you and me and the android developers to keep old devices updated with new and fun software. Thats why so many developers do what they do without making a income off it while spending hours and hours on it. In the end, Barnes and Noble is a business that needs money and updating the nook is not going to bring in the big bucks, if any at all.
Sent from one of those missing Droids or Nook Color on HoneyComb
Your letter.
I assume in part you posted this here because you want feedback.
First, I am in no way affiliated with B&N. I am a user just like you.
I am extremely happy with the Nook.
I like it precisely because they made left it (probably unintentionaly) booting first to the SD.
This in turn has allowed the devs wide open to make bootable images that can be written to the sd.
I believe the company made some forward looking statements that said they wanted to do more with the device. So far in three months, they have released 3 builds. That's actually remarkable when you consider that unlike the developers here, they have to release rock solid well tested stable builds.
Nookie Froyo is really nice. No doubt CM7 and Honeycomb will soon be also...but in the end they both have more problems than an average user could reasonably accept.
Given that their system is so remarkably open, it is my opinion that there is really no better tablet in the ballpark of it on the price.
As a computer professional, I actualy recommended to my friends on facebook, thst they send B&N execs valentines heart candies expressing unending love.
At the end of the day, in my book, they need not hurry because they have given us the best of both worlds.
Take away the boot order....and I never would have bought it at all.
Meenwhile, at apple, they are taking the walled garden to a whole new level....which can only push up prices 30%....
You'll probably get the standard "Thank you for your email, we're working as has as we can email." Even if they were going to send a real email back, what are they going to respond to? Give specific examples of what your issues you have. "bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet"", doesn't really mean anything.
Why does it matter how their UI is when you can put whatever UI on the thing when its rooted.
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
madfatter said:
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
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Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
I have to agree with others here.. why do you care, I see you have rooted you Nook Color. Do you prefer (or are waiting on) that B&N deliver something better that what you can have? Get real,... is you rooted NC not enough? B&N does books, and quite well I might add, they don't do tablets. Although they do seem to have out done everyone else.
Product F(RED) said:
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
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*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
Trey_Miller said:
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
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they have a UI built for putting shortcuts to your books and magazines on your homescreens so you have easy access to your favorite books or favorite magazine, their reader UI is simple and easy to use and their music player although isnt the best music player out there it gets the job done. the average user wouldnt need any more than that and imo they did a pretty good job at turning android 2.1 into an ereader OS
Trey_Miller said:
Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
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i agree with you in that aspect that they should keep their word but i also disagree with the fact they they should update it to froyo or add anything to the user experience
non techies dont need these features in an ereader if its anything they(meaning B&N) should just fix bugs in their system
if they update it to froyo they will be requested to include flash 10.1 and all other goodies froyo includes and that can actually degrade the user experience more than enhance it
flash although necessary for a full web browsing experience it isnt required for a good one
flash kills battery faster than anything else even on wifi(steve jobs got this one right) and it can slow down your device big time(although it might not happen it still is a possibility)
if you want to request a feature for the average user you should request a youtube app or something, non techies will love youtube capabilities on their ereader and the youtube app will not degrade the user experience one bit
and i apologize for my grammar but i really dont care about grammar because this is the internet and on the internet grammar doesnt matter
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
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again to people who dont root, its an ereader NOT a tablet
compare the NC to the Nook or the kindle feature to feature and i can guarantee you that the nook color has the most features for the tech
it has alot of unnessary features for an ereader but it has them so it can be the best in its category(ereader)
if you look at some reviews of this device you will notice that they all say that this device is a great contender to an actual tablet
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't?
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The fact that I'm not a mind-reader. Also, the way you worded your original post implies that you haven't. You said you're not looking for a tablet, but rather a single-purpose device. But that's not the point. If you're not happy with it, sell it. Most people are. We like that it's open and can be turned into a cheap multi-purpose tablet. There's a fine line between showing dissatisfaction and insult. Typing up a grammatically correct email that insults the developers is not the way to go about it. I hope you realize that they still have your money, whether or not you decide to sell it. So you might as well make use of it.
Trey_Miller said:
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
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again i also agree that they should update their ui but not to really add features but to fix glitches and bugs(maybe add a youtube app but im running honeycomb so this doesnt affect me to much due to me already having youtube capabilities) and about the load your own books point
if they allowed a user to do that they will lose money
now i dont know if they are selling the nook at a negative or at a positive income but i do know that their intention is to sell B&N books to users using the nook color, and allowing people to side load books onto their device means that pirates can load free books on their nook and use the nook app to read a book B&N had no profit on(im not saying everyone is a pirate but this gives the people who are the freedom to do so) so from a business stand point that would be a bad idea
now i do understand why this would be a requested feature but even if you had kindle books you bought if you could side load them whats stopping you from just buying kindle books and using it on your nook instead of buying B&N books
Trey_Miller said:
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
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I may have missed something, but I did go and re-read Alitmax98's reply to you, and didn't see anything mentioning your grasp of the English language. I believe he was referring to the content of your letter, not the grammar or formatting. That would be petty. On a related note, I didn't see anything grammatically wrong with his which would warrant your criticism either.
You seem overly sensitive. It's always nice when a company does what they say, but your letter does come across as if your Nook is an unusable paperweight with the potential to harm children. It's really not that bad.
I suggest you take a deep breath, download a nice book, and relax. If you really want to take someone to task, go buy a Samsung Moment from Sprint...then your rage will be justified.
Hexapus, *chuckle* I appreciate your response. I fully admit that my email was rather prickly and hostile, hell I admit it in the first post. As to the english language, I purposefully 'misunderstood' it, as I have a low threshold for people who claim that an email is worse than some pieces of sellable "fiction" (Twilight, anyone?). The fact of the matter is, everyone and their neighbor is blowing words of adoration up B&N's collective arse for the reader, and anyone who complains is told to either suck it up or shove off. The entire purpose for the email was to get them to know that there was at least one voice out there that was saying, "Okay, I see what you have, but you promised all this other stuff, too. So what the hell is up?"
Is it unusable? To some extent, yes. I'm not talking about how it won't do my paperwork, feed me, and tuck me in (I suppose it *could* do all those, but whoever created the apk would have to be shot), I'm talking about how, every once in a while, I'd like to have a piece of technology that *doesn't* require me to have to rewrite the system just to make it work up to spec.
Luigi, you bring up a very good point about sideloaded pirated books. Although let me put this to you, if you're concerned that a person is going to sideload a book onto an open device that is easily rooted so that you can run the kindle apk along side the nook apk, not to mention half a dozen other things, and whatever else you might throw on there, your line of logic is just a little, mmm, off kilter.
But hey, whatevs. I'm going radio silent until I get a response either way. If anyone else wants to criticize me for speaking up, that's your perogative. Just as it's my perogative to call you an ignorant greedy arse for not thinking about those people who won't or can't root.
Everyone has a right to their opinion but not everyone is right all the time.
The users that aren't ready to put Nookie on an SD card...need that dumbed down UI.
Even if when they open up an app store and move to honeycomb...they will probably keep the UI crippled.
They aren't telling lies and they made it nice for those of us with the skills to do something more with it. It's really such a rare thing to have happen.
I want the Nook held up as an example of openness that helps fuel creativity and progress.
Does the tab have Honeycomb yet? Gingerbread?
Trey_Miller said:
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Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
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For starter, the NC is an eReader, and it is just functioning fine. Their app is amazing and work as expected.
What you did after rooting it is your problem, not NC. If you complaint that it doesn't work like a true tablet, then I have news for you. It is NOT.
If you need a tablet that function like it is a tablet out of the package, then go get a Xoom.
Trey,
Thanks for your post as it obviously got people thinking. The answers you seek are on the BN developer boards. I think they said June for the app store and software update. I know many non power users on Android and many of them hate it. The reason is, it does not function as well consistently as people expect it to. With the Nook, it does. This is important to many users and worth a wait in theirs and Barnes and Noble's mind. When the update comes, it will make the device smootther and give it more features. The froyo and Gingerbread ports here though wonderful, do not make it more stable. They have good devs, but I am not sure they are as good as the ones here. All this equates to more time for them to get it right. Our nagging will not speed up the process. You did buy a tablet from a company that makes books after all. If you want speedy updates, buy one from a computer company. Only, don't buy an Archos, they are notoriously slow with updates. On a lighter note, BN must have done something right. Look how much the interface of Honeycomb looks like the BN interface.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57526994-94/android-users-outraged-over-motorolas-broken-promise/
Put simply hardware vendors suck. They lie. and they do it strategically!
People read and believe the BS that comes from stupid puppets that work for these companies
I know I am screaming and preaching to the converted by ranting this here, hence why I actually took to CNET's page to oooze my rant all over the ingnorant public.
Think about it carefully for a moment. Android = open source. Operating system cost = zero dollars with exceptions to the company paying any licensing fees to Google Android (what ever that might be - I am including it for the sake of someone coming to correct me that knows better or otherwise) and returns the vendor what? Zero....if not negative money (as stated above). Hardware = profit.Truth!
Investors invest money into companies usually based upon what? PROFITS!
So the goal in the game is to support as little as possible only enough to disgruntle the least number of users or potential users and release as many new devices as they can to make....what....OH THATS RIGHT....PROFITS!!!
Company makes investors happy so that they can invest more money into the company to make it bigger and more prosperous! Hardware vendors give a care to current users about as much as the dog sh!t they wipe from underneath their shoes.
For those that were interested in what I actually posted on CNET's page...go here:
http://news.cnet.com/8618-1035_3-57...07&assetTypeId=12&blogId=2&messageId=13032859
Lastly I would like to say thanks to XDA for 1) Me finding you and allowing you to provide access to developers and a community; so that my device can live on many many many more lifetimes than that of the ignorant sheep public that think their device is outdated. 2) Opening my eyes (and respect) to appreciation the developers here who constantly out-do these lying vendors (most single handedly too). Thanks to you all for giving things a shot and working your arses off for free!
PS: Jarmez doesn't rock....developers rock!
The skin overlays like BLUR, TouchWiz, etc that OEMs put over AOSP does cost them money. In addition to making their phones less desirable IMO, the skins hake it harder for them to give users the new updates to android. We love the new features that come with new versions of Android, but they also fix bugs and sometime even add security. Since OEMs have to add their skins, users end up with buggier, less secure, feature lacking phones. That is why so many are drove to XDA, they have no other choice. Thanks to all the amazing devs and themers and moders etc that make XDA great.
I am almost inclined to agree with articles I've been reading more and more of lately.. They argue that only Nexus phones are Android phones, and that BLUR phones should be BLUR, TouchWiz phones should be Toucwiz, etc, as far as market share goes. If you look at it like that, Android is a very small share of the market. I would have to go ahead and include phones running AOSP ROMs in that number. It would be next to impossible to really determine all that though.