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Hi guys. I am thinking of askingn a Chinese contact I have about making a proper style keyboard that clicks to the base of the Athena/Ameo/X7500 just like the crappy standard one. It will have proper style keys miniature but much better than the flat ones that come with it.
What do you guys think of the idea? would it sell well? How much would you be willing to pay etc? I have to look at the logistics of it. Also is there akeyboard on an existing PDA that you think would be a good template for the new one?
Also anyone know what the pinouts are on the connector on the keyboard?
You may not break even if it is only for ameo, and so simple
Actually I am thinking now a mini-usb keyboard... so less drain than bluetooth, with mini usb, and normal usb adapter -
I use the keysonic keyboard from maplin, its only about 10 inches long and very compact, usb though, I find somthing you can have some distance from the screen a lot better for typing. I personally dont have a problem with the Ameo KB. it does the job, "two finger typing" but if I was sitting writting shed loads an external would be preferable. like victoradjei said, dont think it would be profitable, to much of a nich market. Also somthing else to carry about. I now just leave my keyboard in the car, and to be fair I havnt even needed it for a while. okay, ive used it once since i got it, another £30 waisted.
I don't see the point if you can use a Bluetooth wireless keyboard
Well the thinking behind it is to REPLACE the crappy keyboard that comes with it..
Bluetoooth keyboards are fine but they drain a lot more power than a hard wired one.
I'm thinking that a keyboard that has decent keys and fits in the space and size ofthe old one woudl be cool. I had a Psion 5 and that keyboard was AMAZING compared to the Ameo and it was tiny, but still had real keys. There must be enough market for stuff for the Ameo/Athena etc otherwise why would people make cradles and other stuff for it?
johnwalk - I have the Keysonic too - great keyboard but too big to bung in a briefcase to use with the Ameo - if i want to look 'cool' with my device in a meeting or something I would need something at least half the size, and foldable to stick with the form factor of the Ameo itself.
PSION 5 keyboard rocks!
Yeah i had a PSION 5 and that keyboard was amazing i have to admit, along with the Universal Keyboard, miss that to!
Its a toughie as i dont carry my keyboard about, yet I prob would pay around £30 to have a decent keyboard that I could use with my Ameo.
I find the one that was with it very unusable and now i use HappyTappingKeyboard decent on screen keyboard app and im finding more and more reasons not to use an external keyboard.
Will keep my eye on this topic tho as Id be interested to see what happens.
Mmm, bluetooth keyboard????? Stick to direct replacement
Also i dont think the Bluetooth Keyboard would be a good idea.
Mainly because of the draining power issues, but also because most people use their bluetooth headsets with their device so pairing and using both would mean alot of messing about.
A direct replacement keyboard for the device would be great.
Just my 10cents worth!
ok I see what your trying to do now. what about trying to get something to unfold to make bigger, maybe disguised as a case or would that start to get complicated.
new keyboard feedback...
Here is what I like and don't like about the default keyboard:
Likes
- Thin.
- Easily removed/attached.
- No wires.
- Magnetic.
- Easily stored away as it doesn't take up too much space.
- Not BlueTooth.
Dislikes
- (This is a like and dislike feature)Has a powerful magnet and I'm hesitant about putting it next to my MP3 or PVR player because I don't want it wiping the hard drives. I just want to throw it in my bag but then think twice about it. I guess I need to find a compartment in my bag away from my storage devices. I don't have a problem with it next to my laptop since the HD on the laptop is shielded.
- Key feel, they seem sluggish and not firm.
- No click when pressing keys, like Universal.
- No back light.
- No option to used detached or with extension cable.
- Keys too spread apart and not easy to get to, which causes typing errors
- Easily scratched.
- No row for number keys, but I can live with this since the phone I used before the Athena was the TyTn/Hermes.
- Scratches case when in closed position.
Combining the Universal keyboard with the benefits of the Athena keyboard would be ideal, in my opinion.
I'll update my post if anything else comes to mind.
OK, I will concede the bluetooth issue, even though the 750x has a huge battery.
The best keyboard I had was the Sony KB100 for the Sony Clie series. It was a folding keyboard, with scissors action keys (like a laptop) and it connected to the unit via the charger.
It would be nice if we were to get a folding KB with magnetic attachment.
Yep yep, id have to agree
ltxda said:
Here is what I like and don't like about the default keyboard:
Likes
- Thin.
- Easily removed/attached.
- No wires.
- Magnetic.
- Easily stored away as it doesn't take up too much space.
- Not BlueTooth.
Dislikes
- (This is a like and dislike feature)Has a powerful magnet and I'm hesitant about putting it next to my MP3 or PVR player because I don't want it wiping the hard drives. I just want to throw it in my bag but then think twice about it. I guess I need to find a compartment in my bag away from my storage devices. I don't have a problem with it next to my laptop since the HD on the laptop is shielded.
- Key feel, they seem sluggish and not firm.
- No click when pressing keys, like Universal.
- No back light.
- No option to used detached or with extension cable.
- Keys too spread apart and not easy to get to, which causes typing errors
- Easily scratched.
- No row for number keys, but I can live with this since the phone I used before the Athena was the TyTn/Hermes.
- Scratches case when in closed position.
Combining the Universal keyboard with the benefits of the Athena keyboard would be ideal, in my opinion.
I'll update my post if anything else comes to mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to say youve got all the points spot on, completely agree with you. I would take my keyboard about if:
1- It was a decent one
2- It didnt scratch the main unit.
Hi Guys. Sorry for the lack of replies I've been in Barcelona! I'm seeing what I can find out about that connector on the Ameo keyboard but so far running a blank.... if i want to match up an existing keyboard matrix somehow i need to know what the Ameo matrix is like (and hopefully the connector will tell me something!)
Also investigating some small USB keyboards and wether they could be adapted some way to use the proprietry connector directly. I used to have a PDa keybaord that used IR and that folded - was cool but a bit 'clacky' in feel. I'm trying to get my hands on a Psion 7 keyboard and 5 one too, plus one from the Revo to see what can be done there. If anyoe has any other ideas I'd be open to suggestions!
If its not possible to get the keyboard to use the connector under the Ameo would people be ok with one that attaches the unit via a magnet but plugs into the connector on the side?
If it could connect up using the standard connector thats already there then thats def the way to go, there must be a way.
Otherwise having a cable coming out and plugging into say the USB connector may be ok, but def not the preferred option.
Good luck!
OK Guys - a question....
Has anyone got a spare Athena keyboard? It can be scratched or bent or whatever as long as I can dissasemble it and get to the route of those connections!!
Then I can get my contacts in China to see if they can marry it up to a decent mini keyboard matrix....
No one got a keyboard they dont want? Even broken would do!! Come on guys this would maybe allow me to connect a real one up!
I would love to have a keyboard as similar to the universal as possible that clicked on just like the original.
It would need to be backlit, either by manual turning on, or even whenever activated, no need for fancy lightsensors.
Definitely would be a must to have the numbers on seperate buttons.
Wouldn't mind if it became somewhat thicker, if the above improvements were available.
I certainly would buy one if it became available.
Well I've got three lines of thinking:
a. A keyboard that fits the original space but has 'keys' like the the Psion 5/Revo
or
b. A very small usb keyboard that plugs into the '16 pin proprietry' plug on the Athena, or uses the connector on the base of it.
or
c. A USB to 16 pin adapter - a small and single one like the USb to PS/2 ones.
So I have 2 problems....
1. Need pinouts for the connector on the lower edge of the Athena
Note* The smallest USB keyboard I have found so far is 215mm * 110mm * 11mm, which is VERY small indeed but still bigger than the Athena... I'm going to get one anyway as I would carry it in my bag anyway.
and/or (i think 'and' as I'd like to offer both types of keyboard)
2. Somewhere I can get theh pinouts of the 16 pin connector on the side of the Athena and where to buy a plug!
Come on guys, let's make this brilliant PDA just a little bit better!
Willing to send keyboard, if...
Hi adamelphick,
what would be the adress where I would have to send the original ameo keyboard to? Would you give me one of your new keyboards when they are ready?
Best regards,
Hamartia
Any news from this project?
Is this a design hardware fault or is it jusy my Unit?
There is a lot of play of the metal part that makes up the phone/stop/windows/ok functions on the front of the device. The whole part seems to be quite loose..
has anyone else noticed this?
I am sure I read a similar complaint somewhere but cannot place where. The person said a lot of play of the key which makes for the call accept and reject strip
Yes
..thats exactly the "problem" my device seems to have. At this point I am not sure if this is a general design fault or just my unit..
my kaizer has the same problem ..
i see that is common ....and i dont like it at all...
I will have to visit a store and check a future batch to see if the problem is still there or it is just a general design fault.. I have bough this unit on line..
The play has no adverse effect on the usability of the keys but it is not nice to see and feel on a 700 Euro machine...
Any additional input on this would be appreciated
Users are posting the same thing on other sites and I have yet to see a users state that their device is any different.
Anyone else?
Has anyone else experienced the same problem? As there is no much feedback on this I assume this problem is only present on my (perhaps just a few more..) device..
I'm not seeing this with mine, the lower hardkeys are a "unit" but it's not loose. The whole unit seems quite nice and solid.
Loose is an ambiguous measurement. All agree that they have some play,,,,,, which is another ambiguous description. I agree that there is more play in those keys than with similar devices but I do not believe there is anything wrong with the hardware. I was watchful when I first received my device because I notice that those keys were more mobile that what I was use to but after a week It seems pretty normal.
Unless they became unresponsive, jammed because of displacement or unless paint rubbed off the keys from contact with the other keys then I wouldn't say it was a flaw.
Mine is tight, except for the directional pad. THat is a bit loose. But the rest of the buttons are very tight, no wiggle at all.
Sorry, yes tight is subjective. When I shake the phone they don't move or make any sound. When I rub my finger across the hardkeys from right-to-left and left-to-right, the hardkeys don't move. If I put my fingernail in the edge of the case and the keys, I can move the "group" slightly.
So my subjective opinion is that they are solid and tight. Had I not seen this thread, I would never have given these keys a 2nd thought. So there are differences in the fit and finish I guess.
its definitely a problem of the htc produce process. all types of mobile phones had similarly problems. I now have the 4th Hermes and 2 of them had play on the frontkey or the full keyboard hat not the same space at the edge. its not fine but its normal...
I have an ATT tilt and I upgraded from a T-Mo MDA.
I really like the tilt. I am not having issues with it like I see others are. It seems plenty fast for me (def faster then the MDA, especially when streaming video over the net) and the HSDPA connections are awesome. Put's my work DSL to shame, lol.
But, I was dissapointed in some of the design.
I would have loved for the TYTNII to have Stereo Speakers like the MDA did (those speakers rock, very clear and can get quite loud).
I also would have liked to see a hardware volume button for the TyTnII, having to use the stylus to adjust the volume is a bit annoying if it needs to be done quickly.
The 3.0MP camera works great, but I would have loved it more if it had a Zoom and a Flash (I know it zooms but not in 3.0MP mode). The flash didnt do much for photos unless it was a closeup shot, but that LED came in quite handy as a flashlight every now and then, lol.
Lastly the Stylus Position was a bit annoying at first when the keyboard was open, but I have already gotten used to taking the stylus out first and then sliding the keyboard, which makes things alot simpler. However, keeping the stylus on the right hand side would have made it more comfortable for the majority of users (sorry lefties).
Anyway, these are the only things that bother me about the Tilt. I really like it otherwise and will most likely keep it (still in my 30 day trial) unless T-Mo actually dispatches their HSDPA/3G on Dec 6 and offers a better phone, then I would gladly switch back.
What features do you miss from older HTC devices? It may not help us now but if HTC has scouts on these forums it cant hurt to make note of what we like and dont like.
I have only one complaint with the TyTn II. In my place we do not have 3G so the best we can do is EDGE. However the EDGE connection is slower on the TyTn II than what it used to be on my i-mate Jasjam and later the HTC Touch. On these previous phones I could easily manage 200 kbs but with the TyTn II it is just a max of 100 kbs. I have tested a number of times by swapping SIM's. When I put my SIM in my previous 2 phones I get good EDGE speed but the same SIM in the TyTn II gives about half the speed.
Just hoping that a future ROM will solve the problem.
Well my previous phone was a Palm 750v and i miss a few things actualy.
I miss the threaded SMS application so i found the riped version and installed it but MMS wont work through it. Also i loved how the Palm had a small slider switch at the top of the phone to instantly make it silent or not. That was very convenient. Hmmm what else...
Generaly i found the Palm a lot easier to use for a beginner. I liked how you could do pretty much anything without touching the screen and also everything seemed to be so intuitive. I hardly changed anything to make it suit me. I found myself changing the Kaiser quite a bit on the other hand. But im up to a point now where i really enjoy the Kaiser so i'm not regretting anything. Plus it has a hell of a lot more features that the Palm lacked. Like a better screen, wifi and GPS to name a few.
Oh man you asked for it #1
Alright- I typically use this site SOLEY for reference/assistance/troubleshooting/brainstorming, you get the idea...
And for that, it has been INCREDIBLE! Thank you all!
However, I will now take this incredible opportunity to gripe about how much I hate my new Tilt (Kaiser) vs. my old 8125 (Wizard).
Two days ago, I finally wore the mini USB port solder points out on my Wizard, leaving me with no way to charge my battery other than (and this is what I did) disassembling the Wizard, slipping the port on the charger plug, and holding it defibrillator style against the printed circuit board where it had previously lived. This got me enough juice to make it through the last couple of days, and sync it one last time in order to dump over to my new Tilt. In the last 3 hours with my new Tilt/Kaiser, I have come to these conclusions:
1. The keyboard now slides open in the opposite direction. I officially hate this. On my Wizard, I would slide the keyboard open, browse the web in landscape mode, and use the D-Pad and 2 softkeys between the screen and the D-Pad to navigate. This was beautiful and worked wonderfully. Now, the D-Pad is on the left side (I'm right handed) and not only does this suck balls for my left thumb, but it is compounded by the soft keys which have now migrated farther south (along with the messaging and IE buttons, as if it wasn't bad enough) to make the D-Pad area so freaking congested that even I, with my nimble fingers, have a hard time discerning one button from the next. Roll all this in with the fact that the charging port is still essentially in the same place, and browsing with the keyboard open using the D-Pad with the charger plugged in is essentially MADDENING, while it was *quite* feasible, before.
2. The power button has moved. Why? Top seems like a great place, always was- and what could the congestion issue be? The MicroSD slot has already been moved beneath the D-Pad so the top has to have a little breathing room, I'd think!
3. As mentioned in 1., the messaging and IE buttons have been moved to the D-Pad area. For what reason? This now makes one-handed use to quickly snap messaging/IE open a total pain in the ass, and quick/reliable motions in the D-Pad area HAZARDOUSLY hit or miss. I mean, lets REALLY think about this. 13 buttons in an area about as large as 3 United States postage stamps. WTF?
4. The volume *slider* has been replaced with a wheel. I'm not entirely certain how I feel about this, yet- but already I've noticed a few times that I've *clicked* the wheel and rolled it at the same time, while I can't recall ever sliding the Wizard's slider when trying to click with it. I liked sliding up and holding, or sliding down and holding, as opposed to rolling, and rolling, and rolling... Also, while petty, it's worth mentioning that the profile of the wheel on the Kaiser is *just* slightly larger than the slider on the Wizard. Not really a major issue, but noteworthy.
5. Where's the Comm Manager button that used to be above the volume slider? Oh wait- there is no Comm Manager button anymore- just a PTT button I have absolutely no use for. While I feel certain there's probably a hack/mod out there to permit me to re-map this to Comm Management, I see nothing built in as of this post. Perhaps HTC has assumed we all just leave our Bluetooth and Wi-Fi on all the time (plugged into chargers, of course, as otherwise our batteries would be deceased in no time...)
6. MicroSD? Aww man... I won't rant on this one, as it's just a given that any time I buy a new phone I'll need new cards, but Jesus, man- First it was SD, then it was MiniSD, which I was just starting to actually use in other devices (yay for cross compatibility and the potential to use cards to their max!) when, now, I'm out another 20, 30, 50, WHATEVER, dollars for ANOTHER new card. MicroSD. "Whoopee." Not to mention- what the hell is the deal with this magically gravitational force that's pulling EVERYTHING to the freaking D-Pad!!?? What was wrong with the SD port on top???
7. Voice Dial button. Okay. Now seriously. This is flat out retarded. Finally, we were getting to a point in telecommunications hardware where many devices were actually beginning to sport a dedicated voice dial button, and HTC pulls it off of the Kaiser. ::slaps forehead:: I'm at a loss. Is this, again, because all of us Kaiser users are supposed to be using stereo bluetooth headsets with voice dial buttons integrated on *them*? ::sigh::
8. Black keyboard (almost). This keyboard is AWESOME! Well- permit me to elaborate- the COLORATION, on 30 of the keys, is AWESOME! The silver numeric keys are a complete travesty, and a throwback to a sometimes difficult to read (under certain circumstances) Wizard keyboard. Also, why, exactly, HTC felt the need to move symbols around on the keyboard, coupled with numbers moved around on the keyboard, coupled with entire keys being relocated on the keyboard, I will *never* know. I haven't even checked to see if the Kaiser has the same idiotic keyboard backlight timeout issues that the Wizard had, but if it does, it's going on the list!
9. B = BM. No no, not bowel movement, "BM." Every time in the last few hours I have touched the "b" key, I have been given "bm." I will be wearing out my backspace key quite quickly at this rate. I've already noticed another post which seems to revolve around this issue, but I have been too busy ranting here to actually read *that* open tab. <Update:> That post was about something else (keypresses repeating)- BUT: I'm hoping I simply received a lemon Kaiser with a flakey keyboard, as multiple keys (4-5, actually) result in random additional keypresses, including (most annoyingly) B = B + M, V = V + SPC, and L = L + OK, or some such nonsense... Typing softer/harder doesn't seem to entirely alleviate *or* reproduce the problem. :-( Crap!
10. Tilt. Wow. This is certainly the AT&T "Tilt." Because- the screen tilts! Wait- why? I'm sorry- not to crack on HTC's brilliant ingenuity, but perhaps I was the lucky one of the thousands who simply *never* had any desire whatsoever to tilt the screen of my Wizard for any reason... While this is certainly a snazzy Sidekick-type feature, I have zero use for it, and simply cannot fathom any other reason why AT&T would market this high-powered XDA as a "Tilt" than to directly market-oppose the Sidekick. Oh wait- now I know why it's engineered this way- obsolescence! Surely this thing is bound to snap off in the next 6 months (if I can stomach it's unfriendliness that long)... Just... I don't know- seriously stop and take a few seconds to yourself, and truly think about this amazing device, and then think about the name it was given. Shame on you, AT&T. Shame. What would have been wrong with 8925? 8125 was good enough for Cingular 2 years ago! This "Tilt" business is like branding the Acura NSX the "Acura Car with 4 Wheels!" Nevermind the 400MHz CPU or WM6Pro capabilities, to say the least... Bah, ingenius AT&T marketing... How patronizing- to a device- LMAO!
11. Where's the other speaker? And for that matter, where is this single speakers balls? Were they neutered out with the other speaker? Oh wait- I know- this all comes back to the fact that I'm supposed to be using stereo Bluetooth- thaaaat's right- silly me! Except for- oh- wait- wanting to hear my phone ring across the room. Perhaps HTC never thought of this, but- speaker duplicity lead to much more reliable notification audibility. News flash! When your device is in your holster, pocket, whatever- typically on the Wizard *one* speaker was covered, but another was still revealed. Eureka!
12. Mini-USB? Really? Because it looks like some bizarre, mutated Mini-USB charging/sync port to me... what the hell was the purpose of this, other than to make you do a double-take the first few thousand times you plug a cable into it?
13. Where's my flashlight? I'm a king of successfully using things for their entirely "not-intended" purpose. And the flash on the Wizard? About as useful as a screen door on a submarine when it came to pictures. But looking around an engine compartment? Searching a backpack? Inspecting a PC tower's innards? (The list goes on...) That little "flash" kicked some major ass for an always available flashlight. Goodbye, little flashlight... :-(
These gripes are all primarily hardware related, and I doubt I'll have many SW gripes to append later as I've been using WM6 off and on my Wizard for a few months now, and have markedly few complaints that can't be alleviated with some mild hacking and modding.
Alright, that's all I've got. Again, these were all conditions of the phone publicly present before I purchased it, so I'm not harping on HTC, entirely, just posing the perspective of one DEVOTED Wizard owner who thought he was going to super-upgrade to a Kaiser. At this rate, I'll be soldering my Mini-USB port back onto my Wizard's PCB, or making a reluctant leap to the iPhone. It is *quite* bad ass, but I've absolutely adored my Wizard for over a year and a half (a feat unmatched by any cell phone in the last 10 years, for me... I usually roll over every 5-6 months!) and as anti-establishment and group mentality as I am, slipping over to the iPhone side was something I was trying to avoid!
I would just say the Comm manager button and irda (only used it a couple of times but useful when u encounter people with a Palm or a laptop with no bluetooth.
Bertokamus: i agree with every point you raised :'(
I love the Tilt...upgrading from a PPC 6700/HTC Apache...I've gotten used to all the little differences that were frustrating at first. Want to know what I really miss though?? THE FLASHLIGHT. Man I loved having a hardware button bound to my Apache's Light - making it the perfect flashlight integrated into my phone! I'm serious. I want that back!!!
jeffreii said:
I love the Tilt...upgrading from a PPC 6700/HTC Apache...I've gotten used to all the little differences that were frustrating at first. Want to know what I really miss though?? THE FLASHLIGHT. Man I loved having a hardware button bound to my Apache's Light - making it the perfect flashlight integrated into my phone! I'm serious. I want that back!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, out of everything brought up in this thread so far (by myself and others) the flashlight and the lack of stereo speakers are what I miss the most.
Non-improvements from Wizard
Wow, most of Bertokamus list are things that irk me too
Bertokamus said:
. . .
1. The keyboard now slides open in the opposite direction. I officially hate this. On my Wizard, I would slide the keyboard open, browse the web in landscape mode, and use the D-Pad and 2 softkeys between the screen and the D-Pad to navigate. This was beautiful and worked wonderfully. Now, the D-Pad is on the left side (I'm right handed) and not only does this suck balls for my left thumb, but it is compounded by the soft keys which have now migrated farther south (along with the messaging and IE buttons, as if it wasn't bad enough) to make the D-Pad area so freaking congested that even I, with my nimble fingers, have a hard time discerning one button from the next. Roll all this in with the fact that the charging port is still essentially in the same place, and browsing with the keyboard open using the D-Pad with the charger plugged in is essentially MADDENING, while it was *quite* feasible, before.
2. The power button has moved. Why? Top seems like a great place, always was- and what could the congestion issue be? The MicroSD slot has already been moved beneath the D-Pad so the top has to have a little breathing room, I'd think!
3. As mentioned in 1., the messaging and IE buttons have been moved to the D-Pad area. For what reason? This now makes one-handed use to quickly snap messaging/IE open a total pain in the ass, and quick/reliable motions in the D-Pad area HAZARDOUSLY hit or miss. I mean, lets REALLY think about this. 13 buttons in an area about as large as 3 United States postage stamps. WTF?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, my 8125 may have been square and plain looking, but the soft keys were right where they ought to be, and every button was separated enough from others that you could hit the right button easily by feel alone.
Bertokamus said:
4. The volume *slider* has been replaced with a wheel. I'm not entirely certain how I feel about this, yet- but already I've noticed a few times that I've *clicked* the wheel and rolled it at the same time, while I can't recall ever sliding the Wizard's slider when trying to click with it. I liked sliding up and holding, or sliding down and holding, as opposed to rolling, and rolling, and rolling... Also, while petty, it's worth mentioning that the profile of the wheel on the Kaiser is *just* slightly larger than the slider on the Wizard. Not really a major issue, but noteworthy.
5. Where's the Comm Manager button that used to be above the volume slider? Oh wait- there is no Comm Manager button anymore- just a PTT button I have absolutely no use for. While I feel certain there's probably a hack/mod out there to permit me to re-map this to Comm Management, I see nothing built in as of this post. Perhaps HTC has assumed we all just leave our Bluetooth and Wi-Fi on all the time (plugged into chargers, of course, as otherwise our batteries would be deceased in no time...)
7. Voice Dial button. Okay. Now seriously. This is flat out retarded. Finally, we were getting to a point in telecommunications hardware where many devices were actually beginning to sport a dedicated voice dial button, and HTC pulls it off of the Kaiser. ::slaps forehead:: I'm at a loss. Is this, again, because all of us Kaiser users are supposed to be using stereo bluetooth headsets with voice dial buttons integrated on *them*? ::sigh::
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that a Voice Dial button would be way more useful than PTT (who uses PTT? expensive, and have to have others using it to make it any use at all
Bertokamus said:
8. Black keyboard (almost). This keyboard is AWESOME! Well- permit me to elaborate- the COLORATION, on 30 of the keys, is AWESOME! The silver numeric keys are a complete travesty, and a throwback to a sometimes difficult to read (under certain circumstances) Wizard keyboard. Also, why, exactly, HTC felt the need to move symbols around on the keyboard, coupled with numbers moved around on the keyboard, coupled with entire keys being relocated on the keyboard, I will *never* know. I haven't even checked to see if the Kaiser has the same idiotic keyboard backlight timeout issues that the Wizard had, but if it does, it's going on the list!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the keyboard changes - entering numbers from the top row is not as easy as a phone pad arrangement - but IMHO even the phone pad arrangement is a pain because having to remember to hit the Fn key every time. A dedicated keyboard like the HTC S710 and S730 have would be really nice (yet would still be awkward to use when sliding keyboard is open)
Bertokamus said:
10. Tilt. Wow. This is certainly the AT&T "Tilt." Because- the screen tilts! Wait- why? I'm sorry- not to crack on HTC's brilliant ingenuity, but perhaps I was the lucky one of the thousands who simply *never* had any desire whatsoever to tilt the screen of my Wizard for any reason... While this is certainly a snazzy Sidekick-type feature, I have zero use for it, and simply cannot fathom any other reason why AT&T would market this high-powered XDA as a "Tilt" than to directly market-oppose the Sidekick. Oh wait- now I know why it's engineered this way- obsolescence! Surely this thing is bound to snap off in the next 6 months (if I can stomach it's unfriendliness that long)... Just... I don't know- seriously stop and take a few seconds to yourself, and truly think about this amazing device, and then think about the name it was given. Shame on you, AT&T. Shame. What would have been wrong with 8925? 8125 was good enough for Cingular 2 years ago!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say that the "tilt" is a marginal feature - I could do without it, but sometimes I use it and it's nice to have, if it holds up OK
Bertokamus said:
11. Where's the other speaker? And for that matter, where is this single speakers balls? Were they neutered out with the other speaker? Oh wait- I know- this all comes back to the fact that I'm supposed to be using stereo Bluetooth- thaaaat's right- silly me! Except for- oh- wait- wanting to hear my phone ring across the room. Perhaps HTC never thought of this, but- speaker duplicity lead to much more reliable notification audibility. News flash! When your device is in your holster, pocket, whatever- typically on the Wizard *one* speaker was covered, but another was still revealed. Eureka!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Wizard speakers are pretty darn good for any phone, but I would have settled for the mono speaker if it weren't such a tinny piece of crap!
Bertokamus said:
12. Mini-USB? Really? Because it looks like some bizarre, mutated Mini-USB charging/sync port to me... what the hell was the purpose of this, other than to make you do a double-take the first few thousand times you plug a cable into it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, how much of a savings in expense and space is the proprietary 11-pin ExtUSB anyway? I have already tried 2 adapters that didn't fit right - one that stuck in so hard that I had to use pliers to pull it out, and was afraid I might have damaged the contacts on the port.
The 2.5mm socket on the Wizard seems like a dream in comparison, although even it required getting special adaptors or designed products (like the Shure i2c-T headphones and mike, which worked great, and now I'd like to use them on the Tilt but have to find a new adapter that will give me stereo and use of mic)
But 2 different sockets for the 2 functions seems to me to be a safer and more durable hardware solution than the dual function ExtUSB port.
Bertokamus said:
13. Where's my flashlight? I'm a king of successfully using things for their entirely "not-intended" purpose. And the flash on the Wizard? About as useful as a screen door on a submarine when it came to pictures. But looking around an engine compartment? Searching a backpack? Inspecting a PC tower's innards? (The list goes on...) That little "flash" kicked some major ass for an always available flashlight. Goodbye, little flashlight... :-(
-Bertokamus-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never used the flashlight for that purpose - I have a JPEG picture that is pure white that I can activate with one tap in Pocket Plus - worked well as a flashlight with the Wizard, and now the Tilt.
I'm glad this thread was started, for airing of gripes RE: fixes to things that weren't broke, simple ergonomic things that could be better, etc.
I would love to see feature like the Nokias have, one click, and you start to type an SMS, now is that so hard to do ?
I previously had a TyTn I, and the only thing I am really missing is the flash. It was very helpfull for me to use my phone as a little flashlight.
I also have now some trouble to get used to the inverted keyboard slid; and I often hold my phone in the wrong way after I used it. But I should be able to overcome this shortcomin really soon.
The power button is also harder to reach; it is a quite good thing I think as in the past I sometime accidentaly started my phone.
I would really like to see the battery life of my old Nokia 6210.
I prefer the keyboard on my Wizard. (Vario 1) and the power switch location.
Other than that I am quite pleased overall with my Kaiser (Vario III)
Oh man you asked for it #2
Miscellaneous afterthought stuff: Belt Holster? Thank goodness I had a Wizard previously, because otherwise I'd be stuck without a holster since HTC doesn't seem to think the Kaiser should come with one (thank you, Wizard accessories!) Infrared? Like many other people who note this, it's not like this is a highly-used hardware feature, but when you've torn the Mini-USB port out of your Wizard, and would like to Beam some files around, (since Bluetooth ActiveSync'ing can be a b**ch!), you're stuck! Headphone jack? Again, as I've seen elsewhere, this new USB port on the Kaiser can support some kind of headphones, I guess, and while that's all fine and great, I kind of liked having independent ports that were a little more universal compatible! Sym for % !?!? Man, this sucks, I use the % symbol a lot, and now I have to utilize the Sym map just to get to it... HTC bungled the Kaiser keyboard, I maintain! How about a little DVorak philosophy even if it was in QWERTY fashion?
-Bertokamus-
I got a belt holster with mine in the HTC box! (They had to change it from the TyTn's orig as it had magnets in it and kept turning the phone on due to the sliding detectors!!)
Yep, we all miss things. Flashlight...etc
I miss a standard earpiece connector so I could power at same time. I know there are 'Y' adaptors out there but its just something else to carry.
You also have to remember that there are differences between the US 'TILT' and the rest of the world's 'Kaisers'
One example is we don't have a 'PTT', I think its where our 'OK' button is to be used in conjunction with the scroll wheel for selecting and closing windows/Apps.
And I notice all our keyboard is dark, non of those silver ones in sight!
IrDA port
I miss the IrDA port more than I thought I would.
I used it to share files with other pda users.
I used it occasionally with a Canon BJ-80 printer.
I sometimes used it for ActiveSync even though it was slow.
Still think the tinny speaker is about the worst backward step, though!
The N95's media functions would have been great. I get more done with the Kaiser on the other hand.
Me again, my Kaiser is for sale now on Ebay and I'm waiting for the end of the auction; I complained a lot about the fact it is a very bad device for entertainment, but the pad really sucks also for everyday usage !
The two windows buttons around the pad, on the top, are too small. I tried to use my Kaiser as a phone for the first time today, but when I wanted to access the contacts using one of these two windows buttons, most of the time I also pushed the pad at the same time, I was about to throw my Kaiser away !!! Of course same problems when using the other apps of the Kaiser (calendar, etc ...).
Why the hell HTC designed this ****ing pad like that ??? It is too large, and the buttons around it are too small.
If only they would have reduce the pad to make it square (like on the old TYTN) then the buttons around it would be bigger and easier to use !!!!!!!!
A child could imagine that !!!
How much was paid the ergonomic designer of the Kaiser ???????!!!!
And to that I add the fact that the looseness of this pad is really annoying for me, it makes me think I'm using a cheap device.
I really want now my Kaiser to be sold quickly because as long as I will still have it, I will always want to give it another try, and each time I'm getting so nervous that I want to break it !
This is the first pocketpc, out of the seven I had, wich makes me so angry each time I'm using it. And it will also be the one I will have owned for a so short time ! (less than a month)
Too bad because its size is very good when you think about everything it has inside, on the paper it should be a close to perfect device, but the realisation and some conception defaults makes it really a "not worth it" device for me.
The only thing I really appreciated is the integrated GPS, and that's it !!!
Actaully, I like the Kaiser pad for the most part.
The flat keypad on the original Tytn is a pain in the ass to use, as you can't really navigate by feel (useful if you are trying to hit the answer key while reaching into your pocket). Using a completely flat d-pad means you hit the center button almost every time you try to navigate, and it makes diagonals almost impossible.
(Note: I never tried the sculpted keypad of the AT&T flavor of the Tytn - thought it was ugly and liked the flat look of the HTC branded Tytn better. Never will I choose esthetics over functionality again)
There's a Kaiser variant from T-mobile that uses a similar flat keypad design, though the d-pad is a little more sculpted. I don't understand why HTC doesn't stick with one D-pad design for all of it's models. It's pretty sad when the phone that has everything you need at the moment is ruined by a lousy physical UI.
Now, I do agree with you that the elongated d-pad takes some getting used to -- and I can definitely see that being either a love it/hate it thing.
My previous PPC/phones were a Tytn I, a Toshiba e800, and an HP 4150 (HTC design). If you think the Kaiser pad is bad try the e800! HTC got it right on with the 4150 design though, possibly the best Pocket PC I've ever used.
rob.ocelot said:
Actaully, I like the Kaiser pad for the most part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But there are still people who complain and cry for there own stupid mistakes.
A little tip: go to a shop next time and try a device before you buy.
marco899 said:
But there are still people who complain and cry for there own stupid mistakes.
A little tip: go to a shop next time and try a device before you buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in a shop, using the device for 5 minutes, does not tell you if you will get use to it (if the seller does allow you to play with it for 5 minutes !).
I also would be glad to know the interest of such a large pad.
Just sell it and buy an other pda and go on with your live.
Don't make such a difficulty of it.
It's not good for your stress level.
I've never had problems with my D-Pad. I'm able to use it just fine without feeling that it's that small. It cold have been a little prettier but it's okay. About the loussiness, maybe it's made that way to protect it from heavy usage. Maybe it' the same principle of ventilators that are never fixed that well on the ceiling. You can notice that it's shaking and that makes it look like it's properly placed, but that happens to protect the device from tearing the ceiling apart over the years.
Weird that the two buttons he is talking about correspond to 1) the soft menu buttons on the screen and he could thus just tap the screen as a workaround or 2) when you use the keyboard, the buttons are replaced with the hardware buttons at the top of the keyboard.
I found it weird for a while moving from a Hermes to a Kaiser - different buttons, screen sliding open the other way but YOU GET USED TO THE CHANGES!
unwired4 said:
Weird that the two buttons he is talking about correspond to 1) the soft menu buttons on the screen and he could thus just tap the screen as a workaround or 2) when you use the keyboard, the buttons are replaced with the hardware buttons at the top of the keyboard.
I found it weird for a while moving from a Hermes to a Kaiser - different buttons, screen sliding open the other way but YOU GET USED TO THE CHANGES!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was talking about the "soft menu" buttons, but not only, also about the buttons wich are below it. All buttons around the pad in fact.
You say I can use the on screen buttons, yes ,for sure !
But then you can also say that the soft menu buttons are useless ...
I don't think they are useless, they are very usefull, they allow us to use the device with only one hand, and also I hate pressing the screen with my fingers.
If HTC would not put these soft menu buttons around the pad, I would just not buy the Kaiser. But if they put it there, they should make them easy to access (and it was very easy to do !).
I just want to say that I have quite large hands/fingers and I have no problems with those buttons at all. If I go to push one, I dont wind up pushing the ones next to it. If you have such trouble you must really have some sausage fingers. If that's the case, I dont quite see how you can blame HTC for it.
Goanna said:
I just want to say that I have quite large hands/fingers and I have no problems with those buttons at all. If I go to push one, I dont wind up pushing the ones next to it. If you have such trouble you must really have some sausage fingers. If that's the case, I dont quite see how you can blame HTC for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. i feel the same way. i have big hands and fingers, and i have no troubles with the keyboard. Must be some brought wurst fingers.
No problem for me either. Other than the Dpad should be a bit tighter, I like it better than the rest of the HTC devices.
Hi folks,
I have figured that there are Diamonds out there with a declination in the accelerometer, which can be noticed by playing Teeter.
Some of them do have the declination, some of them don't.
Mine does .
When you hold the Diamond completely straight, or lay the device down on a flat surface (table), the ball doesn't stay in place, but rolls down in my case.
Another guy having the Diamond has the same, but in his case the ball rolls to the other side. A few other Diamonds I have tested where working the proper way, when "flat" means really "flat".
Who has the same? And would there be a way to sort of calibrate the accelerometer?
Could it be because of the back casing not being completely flat?
Could be, but I have seen Diamonds where the ball just stayed in the middle without movement when lying flat on a table.
JayRayMee.NL said:
Could be, but I have seen Diamonds where the ball just stayed in the middle without movement when lying flat on a table.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're sure the table was levelled?
I'm sure they only calibrate it roughly. There probabaly is a way to do it yourself, but first we'll need to know the API's for the accelerometer.
And have you measured the table with a water-lever or similar device? Because if not then putting the diamond on a table that you just believe to be flat seems like a really really stupid argument....
The only way you can tell is to put them alltogether on the same table. If you can hold the Diamond in your hands in such a possition so the ball doesn't move anymore I would say your table is just not exactly horizontal.
Try to remove back cover...
Guys,
Trust me, I know what I'm saying.
The thing is that my and a few other Diamonds have the Teeter ball rolling towards one side when held exactly the same way (or lying on the same table) while other Diamonds have the ball lying still in the middle of the screen.
May be they're not calibrated right then, like someone1234 said. Can you hold the Diamond in your hands in such a possition - even if tilted, so the ball doesn't move anymore?
demonizator said:
May be they're not calibrated right then, like someone1234 said. Can you hold the Diamond in your hands in such a possition - even if tilted, so the ball doesn't move anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I can.
And then it's tilted (not much, but it is tilted).
I found the solution. HTC knows that they unable to calibrate the accelerometer. So they chose to have that fancy looking backplate to cover this shortness of the device. Hmm. Evil me. Sorry
In my diamond, inside teeter, the ball fall down, even if in a flat surface.
tomorrow it will be replaced with a new one, and i hope it will got a well calibrated one.
at the moment its not a big problem, but think about the future, maybe "improtant" application developed starting from the accelerometer, that will get a wrong feedback...that could be a problem...
They (or a third party) just need to come with a tool that allows the user to calibrate the accelerometer himself, in sort of way the touchscreen calibration goes. Or something.
Developers challenge?
Now, i'm not saying you don't have a right to be annoyed and I see exactly why you'd want to get i fixed. However, does it matter that much? I'm just thinking, it is only an issue when you place the Diamond on a flat surface, how many games are you going to play that involve you placing the diamond on a table? What i mean is, the whole point of the sensor is it detects you moving the device, if you place it on a table the sensor becomes useless anyway.
Like I said: other than the table, when I hold the device in my hands I need to tilt the Diamond in order to have the ball stand still.
This means there is a declination in the accelerometer, and I would like to have that calibrated. And yes, that matters to me.
In the OEM pack for the Sensor (PACKAGE_Diamond_SensorSDK)
Code:
REGEDIT4
REGEDIT4
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Services\HTCSENSOR]
"Order"=dword:00000008
"Index"=dword:00000000
"Flags"=dword:00000000
"Keep"=dword:00000001
"Context"=dword:00000000
"Dll"="HTCSensorService.dll"
"Prefix"="SEN"
"DisplayName"="HTC Sensor Service"
"Description"="HTC Sensor Service"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\HTCSensor\GSensor]
"RotateAngleThreshold"=dword:0000002d
"CheckingTime"=dword:000001f4
"TilingAngleThreshold"=dword:00000014
"NotifyAppRotationMask"=dword:0000003f
"FaceupAsPortrait"=dword:00000001
"FaceupToLandscape"=dword:00000000
"LandscapeToP0Threshold"=dword:00000028
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\OEM\MASD]
"SensorSDK"="3_3_18153516_0"
Does editing the "RotateAngleThreshold" value do anything? I think an increase should reduce the sensitivity.
Accelerometer..
I have the same problem.. I was about to start a new thread when I saw this one.
I just sent a mail to HTC with de problem description. Maybe they can tell me what to do about it. If not.. I will contact the company where I did order the device. So they can ship me a new one.
same problem here
Isn't that thing meant for measuring DIFFERENCES (change in G-force) instead of continuously measure currend position of your Diamond?
The second option is pointless to me, and so rough calibration should do exactly what it is supposed to do: know when you change your Diamonds position and to where it changed...