Hi Folks. I will be getting a HD7 tomorrow. The HD7 is from Bell network (Canada). I would like to change the display to Chinese. I am completely new at flashing rom stuff. What file do I need and what steps should I take? Also the phone is locked to Bell, how do I get it unlocked? if I flash a Asia rom, is it unlocked automatcially. Thank you!
quekou said:
Hi Folks. I will be getting a HD7 tomorrow. The HD7 is from Bell network (Canada). I would like to change the display to Chinese. I am completely new at flashing rom stuff. What file do I need and what steps should I take? Also the phone is locked to Bell, how do I get it unlocked? if I flash a Asia rom, is it unlocked automatcially. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll have to SIM unlock the device to get it to work on your network carrier. There are online sites that charge a small fee and will have your device SIM unlocked in a couple hours to a day. Unfortunately flashing a rom won't SIM unlock the device.
When you get the device go to - Setting - About - More - this will give you the devices Bootloader version, Firmware Revision Number, Radio version and other information such as OS version but those are the important ones you'll need.
The last 3 digits of the Firmware Revision # will give you the network carrier that it's locked to for sure. Bell Mobility = .666
Since its Bell carrier you'll need to download a Bell Mobility Pre-NoDo or NoDo rom to downgrade the SPL and use it with the goldcard method to downgrade the SPL.
To flash a rom you'll have to follow these steps -
1. Downgrade the devices SPL to at or below 3.xxx (which is required to install RSPL/HSPL)
2. Install RSPL and HSPL = Flashing XSPL
3. Flash a custom rom of your choice.
Just follow Shadow's tutorial on downgrading SPL, flashing XSPL and installing a custom rom -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1295068
thank you very much much for the info. igo the phone today.
i managed to enter the tri color screeen and saw following info.
pd29130
spl-2.16.2250.0 (117476)
......
does it mean that my phone's spl is 2.16 and downgrade is not necessary?
thanks again .
quekou said:
thank you very much much for the info. igo the phone today.
i managed to enter the tri color screeen and saw following info.
pd29130
spl-2.16.2250.0 (117476)
......
does it mean that my phone's spl is 2.16 and downgrade is not necessary?
thanks again .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily yes!
You just have to download and install RSPL/HSPL while the device is in bootloader mode.
Read through the DFT XSPL post carefully to avoid damage to the device.
Then download and flash the custom rom of your choice while the device is in bootloader mode
---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 PM ----------
quekou said:
thank you very much much for the info. igo the phone today.
i managed to enter the tri color screeen and saw following info.
pd29130
spl-2.16.2250.0 (117476)
......
does it mean that my phone's spl is 2.16 and downgrade is not necessary?
thanks again .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before you start trying to flash the device... Make sure you have ActiveSync install for windows XP or windows mobile device center for Vista/7 on your PC, this allows for the proper drivers to be installed. Then you'll want to plug the device into your PC into and let the drivers install. Once that's done put the device into bootloader mode and connect it to the PC again and it will install the Qualcomm drivers. This will change the white section in bootloader mode from "Serial" to "USB" and now your ready to start flashing!
i downloaded tried to run xspl following the link but the it says my hd7 model ID is not supported. Mine is a bell hd7 ( just unlocked using codes order online) with information as
PD29130
SPL-2.16.2250.0
......
error msg when running xspl:
[Error Description]:
Invalid ModelID. This means that your phone not supported.
This installer supports only limited number of the phones.
SPARK, MOZART, MONDRIAN, GOLD, SCHUBERT.
If you have phone from this list, but still have this error, please contact with DFT team.
[Info]: USBWorkRSPL.cpp (235)
[Error Description]:
ModelID is 'PD291300'. Please report this info to DFT.
[Info]: USBWorkRSPL.cpp (234)
would you be able to shed some lights on what i should do?
well, another problem emerged. my newly bought htc hd7 keeps rebooting itself . i haven't installed anything or changed anything other than entered the unlock code. why, tks
quekou said:
well, another problem emerged. my newly bought htc hd7 keeps rebooting itself . i haven't installed anything or changed anything other than entered the unlock code. why, tks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your device is supported use the Newest version Revision #3 here -
http://htcfanboys.com/download/cotulla/?action=view&file=2942
As far as the rebooting I'm not sure....that can be caused from multiple things. Hopefully after flashing the device it will take care of it.
When in bootloader mode is there any other information displayed on the screen?
Other than
PD29130
SPL 2.16.2250.0
xdrc45 said:
Your device is supported use the Newest version Revision #3 here -
http://htcfanboys.com/download/cotulla/?action=view&file=2942
As far as the rebooting I'm not sure....that can be caused from multiple things. Hopefully after flashing the device it will take care of it.
When in bootloader mode is there any other information displayed on the screen?
Other than
PD29130
SPL 2.16.2250.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you so much for the info. i will try it when i get home. the rebooting problem seems to have lessened after sleeping on it for a night. it's strange though. anyway, i will try to flash the rom to see if it elimates the problem.
yes, on the tri color screen, it shows other lines as well which i don't have a club what they are.
i will let you know what's going to happen .tks again.
it still didn't work. phone is recognized but there isn't 2.16 spl so i choose 2.10. it didn't work, then i tried 2.56 , it still didn't work. after the sussful msg, i took out the battery and then restart the phone going into tricolor state, its still spl, not rspl. any ideas, thanks ...
i just noticed that the tricolor screen has " MNG" in the spl version line. i remember the DFT software says to make sure no MNG is displayed in the message. i guess the DFT method does not work with my HTC HD7. now what i do? thank you,
quekou said:
i just noticed that the tricolor screen has " MNG" in the spl version line. i remember the DFT software says to make sure no MNG is displayed in the message. i guess the DFT method does not work with my HTC HD7. now what i do? thank you,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should still work even with the MNG.
I would try and run RSPL/HSPL again. Sometimes it doesn't work the first time. Run the RSPL wizard and select the 2.10, The device should stay in bootloader mode and say RSPL, if it doesn't change run the wizard again and it should work. Then while it's still in bootloader mode run the HSPL wizard and select the closest version to your RSPL 2.1
Once you install RSPL don't pull the battery or it will reset and go back to OSPL.
Related
Hi all, I'm a newbie. I did research but still couldn't find an answer, hope some experts can help me out. Thank you so much.
I'm trying to flash my 8125 and the software asked me for the SPL version of bootloader. Anybody know how can I find out the bootloader SPL version for my phone 8125 (or Pocket PC in general) any help would be really appreciated! Thanks in advance.
what rom is currently in it? is it stock? for instance, my MDA from tmo now has a stock rom (long, depressing story, don't ask) and the ipl/spl if memory serves correctly is 2.26
It shows on your initial boot screen in red letters (at least my tmo rom is in red). I'm NOT sure if the bootloader should have a seperate number but if not...simply soft reset your phone and as it boots look at the first screen to pop up and write down those numbers.
Wish I could help you more.
Another easy way is to get WST (check my signature) and read the "Device Info" as it will tell you what Bootloaders you have, the Gx type and much more
@ kadin27
what sw asks for the bootloader version before flashing?
kadin27 said:
Hi all, I'm a newbie. I did research but still couldn't find an answer, hope some experts can help me out. Thank you so much.
I'm trying to flash my 8125 and the software asked me for the SPL version of bootloader. Anybody know how can I find out the bootloader SPL version for my phone 8125 (or Pocket PC in general) any help would be really appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what software your talking about,with which you are trying to flash your device ?
windows mobile OS are packed into a package called 'Roms',which have the OS,OEM drivers,extended rom(contains applications) and Romupdateutility (RUU)which flashes the OS to the device,.When flashing it won't ask for any SPL version,but if the rom is a stock rom (official rom) with a higher Os version than already installed,will flash automatically without any verification of os ipl/spl.or if older than the present rom will not flash and stops with an Error code and it's explanation.
If you are trying to flash a non official custom build rom on a locked device it will also stop flashing with an Error code,or sometimes it seems it has flashed and ruu confirms on the pc 'Congratulations you have successfully upgraded'but when it reboots the previus OS loads up.But to flash a custom build ron,it's mandatory to have your phone CID unlocked,custom roms cannot be flashed to a cid locked devices.
SO,what are you using and what ERROR CODE it displays ?
Secondly, IPL/SPL versions are displayed when you power on or reboot the device on the initial first splash screen in red at the top of the screen.
OR as already suggested by mestrini download WST tool and run to check IPL/SPL and all other info about your device.
IPl/SPL are infect called the 'Bootloaders'
I have HTC HD7 with Windows 7.
While updating phone using ZUNE, the update has interrupter. and now my phone is not starting. it struk up at the boot scree (white background with HTC logo, the very first screen when we start the phone)
So, can I restore it ? What should I do now ?
What kind of HD7 is it? (Europe-, T-Mobile-, O2-,... Version)
If possible you can flash a orginal rom that suits your ID, or flash hspl & one of the roms of the HD7 development section
sandman01 said:
What kind of HD7 is it? (Europe-, T-Mobile-, O2-,... Version)
If possible you can flash a orginal rom that suits your ID, or flash hspl & one of the roms of the HD7 development section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about it. That mobile can be from Australia or London*, its not working with Indian sim card So i was on try to make it working and failed at update, but when it was booting it have the logo O2 which you have listed.
So can say its O2 ?
So if you want to play a little bit with it, we have a few possibilities.
First if its really a O2 phone try this rom:
latest O2 rom
If it works, you have an original NoDo rom installed.
If not, or you want more freedom at you phone do the following:
shut down the phone (e.g. remove battery & reinsert it in the phone)
start the phone & hold the volume down key to enter RUU
Check if the Text at the upper left is mentioned in this thread.
HSPL
e.g. PD29100 is mine, wich works
if yes download an install the xspl from the link and you will get the possibility to flash a HD7 rom you like
for information to flash xspl on your phone you need ActiveSync (WinXP) or Windows Mobile Device Center (Vista & Win7)
if your PD number isn't supported at the moment, we need to talk again.
sandman01 said:
So if you want to play a little bit with it, we have a few possibilities.
First if its really a O2 phone try this rom:
latest O2 rom
If it works, you have an original NoDo rom installed.
If not, or you want more freedom at you phone do the following:
shut down the phone (e.g. remove battery & reinsert it in the phone)
start the phone & hold the volume down key to enter RUU
Check if the Text at the upper left is mentioned in this thread.
HSPL
e.g. PD29100 is mine, wich works
if yes download an install the xspl from the link and you will get the possibility to flash a HD7 rom you like
for information to flash xspl on your phone you need ActiveSync (WinXP) or Windows Mobile Device Center (Vista & Win7)
if your PD number isn't supported at the moment, we need to talk again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks alot, the link you gave me of O2 worked like a charm . Thanks a million for spending your time for issue
Yes, the link you gave worked and i have flashed that new O2 rom with some restarts. Now every thing seems to be ok, but I have lost all my pics (not a prob)
But, as it belong to UK O2 it is not allowing me to use Indian sim card. can I have solution for this ? Will it work if I flash Asia ROM on my phone now ?
If not what could be the solution ? As you have asked me the Number which starts with PD
Her is what it shows on the boot (red) screen
PD29100 SS-BC (4k)
SPL-3.4.2250.0 (121027)
MicroP(LED) 0x07
Touch S1(v1.8,#1624)
Thanks again for your help, you made my day
Thanks and regards > code3h
Sorry, I forgot to inform you that flashing operations always perform an reset of the device.
Only the update process by zune prevent you from loosing you data & settings.
(and the new costum RUU's for Radio,... flashing)
with your PD29100 you can also use xspl by cotulla (see link)
with that you can flash also costum roms & every original HD7 rom you like to test.
We always taked about rom flashing and CID unlocking (xspl) to flash different roms.
sim unlocking is completely seperated from that.
to use other sim cards than the o2 (becaus it seems that you phone is o2 sim locked) you have to search the web for a service who can generate you a unlock code or go to the next phone shop that can sim unlock HTC devices.
sim unlocking costs money (at the moment) because there is no tool for that yet that can genaerate such codes for your HD7
Hello,
I want to unlock my phone HTC HD7. I've read a lot of threads regarding unlocking and as far as I understand, i need to downgrade my os to version 7008 ( my current OS version is 7392 ). I'm completly new at this so I wanted to post my phone specification so that someone could direct me, so that i don't mess anything up. I'm affraid of bricking my phone so please help me out.
My phone specs:
Model: HTC HD7 T9292
OS version: 7.0.7392.0
Firmware revision number: 2250.09.16901.207
Hardware revision number: 0002
Radio software version: 5.54.09.21_22.33b.50.10U
Radion hardware version: A.102.0.D4
Bootloadrer version: 1.69.2250.0(117833)
Chip SOC versionL 2.2.5.0
DIM : PD20100 5VDC == 1A
I don't know what kind of ROM i have and I don't know where to check what it is. I've tried unlocking my phone with ChevronWP7 unlocker, i've installed the sertificate, but the unlocker doesn't recognize my phone.
P.S. Is there a way to unlock my phone with the current OS version on later, or do i nessesarly have to downgrade it first?
your bootloader is below 4.x (1.69) so you can flash whatever custom wp7 rom you want after having h/rspl your phone (go there http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1295068)
chevron is working (with many conditions) on 7004/7008 roms only...so i suggest you to flash custom roms, should be more easy...
you will learn more about rom specificities there : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=876451
yes your bootloader is below 4.x, so you dont have to downgrade your HSPL....
but first you have to goto bootloader screen and check you model number !
and see if you can install HSPL from cotulla, if your model is not supported by cotulla HSPL then you cant do anything, like me, wait and prey cotulla releases more support
have a gr8 day
I also need help!
Dear friends! I also newly bought HD7 and I downgraded my version from 7390 to 7004. Now, I have no idea about how to unlock it! I checked this website but I am really confused... Which programs should I have and what is the process for unlocking? Could somenone post step-by-step instructions both for me and our other friends? We are new to this mobile so your help will be appreciated. Thanks for your understanding and politeness...
Here are the specs of my HTC HD7:
Model: HTC HD7 T9292
OS Version: 7.0.7004.0
Firmware Revision Number: 2250.09.11601.401
Hardware Revision Number:0002
Radio Software Version: 5.51.09.06a_22.30.50.09U
Radio Hardware Version: A.102.0.D4
Bootloader Version: 1.16.2250.0(110866)
Chip Soc Version: 2.2.5.0
hi gargamel35
i dont think you had 2 downgrade as your v7390 shouldnt have bootloader higher then 4.x... but any way,
first boot into bootloader and check model mids number?
step 1 check to see if your phone will accept Cotulla HSPL, if NOT you cant do anything !
cheers
have a gr8 day
Thanks jhonny for your help but I have no idea how I can do the things you told me. I am totally new to this subject, as I told you before. I will be glad if you can write down the step-by-step instructions. I have no idea about HTCs since I have always used Apple products. Thanks a lot...
ok
first turn off the phone
once phone is off ... press power button and volume down
you should then enter bootloader screen... tri colour
tell me every thing you see there?
cheers
have a gr8 day
PD29100 SS-BC (4K)
SPL-1.16.2250.0(110866)
MicroP(LED) 0x07
TOUCH S1(v1.8,#1624)
SD SANDISK 15193MB Class0
Partition Info-v211v413
Serial
Here are the details on the screen. Please tell me what to do next. Thanks a lot my friend...
lucky you
, you can install custom rom
sh4d0w86 has a very good instructions, better then mine !
any way
go to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1195647 and
1, download hspl by cotulla
2, download custom rom
3, put phone into bootloader mode ,
4, then connect to pc
5, flash/install cotulla hspl
6, check hspl installed.... enter bootloader.... should now see hspl by cotulla
7, install custom rom
as i said sh4d0w86 has has better guide, please read his too.
if this helps dont forget to click thanks button
cheers
and have a gr8 day
Thanks for your help, my friend. If you can give me the download links to HSPL and custom rom (I also don't know how to install them) I will download. There are lots of HSPL links and I am confused again. I am really sorry for taking your time but I am TOTALLY NEW. Thanks for your patience and great help...
PLEASE READ MY NEXT MESSAGE - THIS ONE IS NOT IMPORTANT ANY MORE!!!
Now I have HSPL on my HD7 and I am trying to install Ansar's Schubert 1.69 unlock package. (check: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=16297399#post16297399). But I can not pass to the U2M7720 installation since I use Windows XP and I can not install APPLICATION DEPLOYMENT on my computer (it is included in SDK 7.1 for Windows 7 and Vista and it is only designed for these 2 operating systems. Unfortunately, it is not compatible with XP).
So, my question is, what is the substitution for APPLICATION DEPLOYMENT that runs .xap files? I have to deploy U2M7720 to continue unlocking my HD7. I need your help guys! Thanks...
gargamel35 said:
PD29100 SS-BC (4K)
SPL-1.16.2250.0(110866)
MicroP(LED) 0x07
TOUCH S1(v1.8,#1624)
SD SANDISK 15193MB Class0
Partition Info-v211v413
Serial
Here are the details on the screen. Please tell me what to do next. Thanks a lot my friend...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello everyone, I was also gonna ask about bootloader, but since gargamel has already asked, i just want to know if my phone is also able to have a custom rom . My specs are the same as gargamel35 except for SPL : mine is SPL-1.69.2250.0(117833). Thank you in advance!
yes
cheers and have a gr8 day
htc hd7 unlocking
Pd29110 ss-bc 4k spl -5.12.2250.0 135916 mng microp led 0 07 touch s1 v2.b, #1625 - sd sandisk 15193mb partition info -v211v413 but I called t mobile usa and they gave me my unlock code is that all I need to officialy unlock it ..then I can just go head and skip the spl n stuff and just install the custom rom? just like that or no? aslo ...I watched youtubes and they said in order to enter the unlock code just to unlock your phone u need to inert any non t mobile simcard in order to enter my code..to unlock tru? or there a way I can just enter it with my sim card .
hello hotdogggg
you are talking about 2 diffrent things.
first one, you called t mobile and got unlock code, thats to unlock phone so you can now use any sim card with any mobile provider.
second , if you want custom rom then you still have to downgrade your RSPL/HSPL
sh4d0w86 has the best instructions here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1295068
cheers and have a gr8 day
thanks button is next to the qoute button
ooooh okay..i see yea they are 2 differ totally things ....also I been looking up how to do custom roms for 2 months now still havnt figured it out I did learn a bit tho..but ya now I do no that I have to downgrade my os and bootlloader both together or can I just down grade my bootloader only and that's it ..and then I can just install custom roms.im probly the dumbest slow learner on here about custom roms lol but smart on everthing else but I got your link lets see … also I don't have the ability to make a what u call Y cable and I don't have a micr sd or card reader slots built on my pc cuz I built a custom pc without a card reader ..as I just use usb slots only so the y cable and gold card method cant be used at all so .only way to do custom roms is thrugh my usb 2.0 or 3.0 connections . probly no other ways invented yet …Any how I downloaded task 00 and task 29 then 2nd step I got to Where it says if your bootloader is 5.xx..wich mine is ..can I do any of those methods even ansars? downgrade process
hi mate
you have to downgrade your HSPL.
when you flash a stock rom that will aslo downgrade your HSPL at the same time.
try any stock rom, ansar has a couple
check bootloder...HSPL to be less then 3x
after each go
cheers and have a gr8 day
thanks button is next to the qoute button
it was said ...that after sim unlocking ...2 users have reported that the 5.10 europe rom worked --> Update on 30.12.2011: Two TMOUS users did confirm that after SIM unlock it worked for TMOUS too!! with RUU Schubert htc Europe 5.10 401 04 slspl sighned by ansar .zip my bootloader is at 5.12 tho like I said in my previous post
123
out of curiosity following those steps to reflash and unlock a hd7 would it re-simlock to default carrier such as O2?
no
cragsy said:
out of curiosity following those steps to reflash and unlock a hd7 would it re-simlock to default carrier such as O2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, once a phone is sim unlocked then it will stay unlocked, dosent matter how many times u flash custom rom.
cheers and have a gr8 day
thanks button is next to the qoute button
---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------
hotdogggg said:
it was said ...that after sim unlocking ...2 users have reported that the 5.10 europe rom worked --> Update on 30.12.2011: Two TMOUS users did confirm that after SIM unlock it worked for TMOUS too!! with RUU Schubert htc Europe 5.10 401 04 slspl sighned by ansar .zip my bootloader is at 5.12 tho like I said in my previous post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iam not sure what your actually trying to do?
if you want a custom rom.... u have to downgrade ur HSPL
there are only 2 ways, first earier is by flashing stock rom
second is goldcard
1, downgrade HSLP by install/flash stock rom
2, install cotulla HSPL here http://htcfanboys.com/download/cotulla/?action=view&file=2942
3, flash any custom rom you like
cheers and have a gr8 day
thanks button is next to the qoute button
Hello XDA,
I honestly know nothing about Windows Phone and flashing, however here is my problem. HD7 died, so I got it repaired by getting a new SD card installed, however it now longer works, and get stucks at the HTC boot screen. I know of bootmode, but that is about it, it was up to date with the latest version of Windows Phone if that matters.
Basically what I am wondering is how do I fix my phone, do I need to flash it or something? Zune doesn't recognize it when its connected, and my carrier is Bell Canada
Thanks,
CarlosTheJackl
What happen that made it quit working after you had it fixed?
The attachment view of your bootloader says you have spl 4.xxx, so you can try and downgrade your spl to 3.xxx or below with shadows tutorial here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=26333574
Follow the rest of his tutorial and install rspl or hspl by DFT then flash the custom rom of your choice.
If you found this helpful please click the thank you button!
Dear All,
I'm very new to flashing roms on Win Phone devices.
I have a HTC HD7 with SPL-5.11.2250.0 and would like to fully unlock/root my device so I can install any xap file I want.
I tried several exe files. first RUU_Schubert_HTC_EUrope..... and then with the DFT_RSPL/HSPL executables. Nothing worked so far, but I noticed that when booting up the phone with the volume-down button to get into the bootloader, this bootloader doesn't show me the connection mode anymore (serial or usb). Have I broken the bootloader somehow?
Problem is that nothing I'd like to do works. After having had the wrong RUU_Schubert....exe files I finally think I have found the right one for my system: RUU_Schubert_HTC_Europe_5.10.401.04_SLSPL_Signed_by_ansar
But the problem is still that the setup program cannot connect to my phone: ERROR [260] ; Connection
I have no idea what I'm doing wrong... What really makes me wonder is that the connection mode isn't displayed in bootloader anymore (previously it was always stated serial or usb, now it's just an empty white rectangle^^)
Anyone knows about that ?
Thanks alot!
Cheers, Oli
yours is SPL 5.11 , it cannot be flashed or downgraded by software methods which is why nothing u do is working
And yes i think u have also bricked yr bootloader in the process of trying different methods , most likely u choose the wrong DFT RSPL/HSPL version to flash
Using DFT HSPL/RSPL on original 4xxx and above SPL will brick it.
u need to use goldcard , y cable method to downgrade it to a version of spl that is 3xxx and below
SO now yr situation is that u have a bricked phone .
Meaning I cannot even do the goldcard trick as I do not have an sd card slot on my phone?
oliiix said:
Meaning I cannot even do the goldcard trick as I do not have an sd card slot on my phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah you can use the goldcard method. In fact you can typically repair a damaged/bricked bootloader with the goldcard method too. Luckily since only the serial/USB portion in BL mode is missing, the bootloader isn't damaged very seriously.
Use the goldcard method and flash a stock/shipped rom for your devices specific carrier. This should repair the bootloader and should also downgrade your spl and OS version as well, depending on what rom version you flash. At this point you can update through Zune to the current OS version. Then if you wanted to, you could use your goldcard to downgrade the spl and install rspl/hspl and flash a custom rom! Here's Shadows tutorial on how to downgrade spl, this will give you a background on how the process work and links to all the shipped/stock roms:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1295068
This gives a good view and idea on how to make the cable:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1676794