Related
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
by radiation I assume you mean the head tumors
RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rick,
To answer your question - why so much work occurs with Android, I would like to take the liberty of rephrasing the question - why so much work occurs with Android phones? There isnt one correct answer for this.
You are correct in saying that carriers and service providers like to cripple the phone before they hand it over to the consumer. So when you buy the phone you really are not using these wonderful pieces of technology to their fullest extent. Thanks to our developers here at XDA because of whom we can in reality free the phones that we paid much moolah for, so that we maybe able to use all of the fones features that have been designed to work in conjunction with the wonderful Android OS.
Secondly, the reason why so much work goes into the phones and development to improve the functionality of the phone is because that is what Android has been designed for. Consumer can customize the phone to their liking and does not have to get stuck with the proprietary, grid like systems like the ones iphone has. Phone manufacturers, and not just Samsung, obviously design the phones software in such a way so that there is always room for improvement. They bet their dollar on the fact that an average consumer will eventually buy a newer product when its released and marketed in the future. There is always something lacking in the product that is in the market right now and that is where all this work comes into play.
Now, whether you shud buy a samsung captivate or not and what the time requirement is, is totally dependent on what you want to use the phone for and what kind of functionality you would like to get out of it.
From what you said that ur not a person who wud like to spend a lot of time modifying or playing around with your phone, you wud still like the captivate. Samsung Captivate is a very nice phone overall. Its got almost everything that you cud want in a phone. In regards to apps included with the phone, you've got a decent selection along with loads of bloatware.... If there is anything missing you can easily find it on the android market.
If you're expecting that your GPS would work right out of the box, then the answer is, maybe - maybe not. and its not android's fault, its a samsung issue. There are multiple fixes for the GPS that you can find on the forum, that being said, if you plan on utilizing those fixes, like you said not only will you void your warranty but you alone will be venturing into that experiment on your phone and dev will not be responsible for any damage that may or may not happen to your phone. But then again no guts, no glory.
So all in all, if you do end up getting the captivate, i dont think you'll be utterly disappointed, but at the same time i dont think you'll be able to sit back either when you see all these new developments posted here.
Hopefully i helped you a little and if i said too much then i apologize.
I welcome any senior member of the forum to correct me if im wrong and/or make any additions to what ive said above..
happy forumming....
My brother has a Samsung focus. It's buggy as hell, completely counter intuitive, and incomplete. Theres also no apps at all. He has like 3 different crappy youtube apps and sound boards.
And there's no CM7 to one day fix it.
Sent from my Captivate.
anandsamuel,
An excellent response; truly what I was looking for to understand the issues involved regarding Android and SmartPhones. You did not say too much.
I guess I need to start reading so I understand how to root a Captivate!
Rick
Also, that font is irritating to read.
RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok lets slow you down there. first android is linux BASED not linux. there is no need to worry about OS/ device compatibility. the most interaction between the phone and PC are just file copying like through a usb thumb drive.
the next part regarding carriers/updates/samsung. you answered yourself, kinda, and backwards. Samsung didnt blow it.
Google android updates as much as any software does - to make things better.
they release to manufacturers so they can make it work with their hardware.
Samsung released on time, BUT TO THE CARRIERS.
the carriers then take what samsung gave them and add their carrier specific settings (APN ect) and applications (bloatware).
ATT blew the update timeline.
Sometimes manufacturers release their finished product as "source code" untouched by carriers.
the long process is necessary in each step to (attempt) to make a perfect software package that will work with each phone/carrier out of the box for the end user. so it is unfair to say "born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones"
XDA works off of source codes and carrier releases to make our custom updates.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are ways to return your phone without them knowing what you did. dont worry too much about your "voided" warranty.
before i felt comfortable flashing I took about 3 days reading my A$$ off! and currently im off on workers comp. so that was 3 FULL days. even then i had issues and mistakes and my phone was out of service a few nights! but that is part of the fun.
you do not need to be the type of person to constantly update your phone to buy it. tens of thousands of people have this phone on stock firmware and it fully works. the extra effort and time that we here at XDA and cyanogenMOD do is more out of fun, and customization. Many would argue function as well, as we do sometimes fix things *better* than google/samsung/carriers. but things willl *usually* still function on stock even if on a basic level.
you only need to put in as much as you want to get out of it
so timeline,
flashing custom roms/themes PROPERLY - under a week
cutting and pasting roms frankenROMS - under a month or 2
creating - vast back knowlege of programming, ect YEAR(S)
regarding wanting to update often, not every update on XDA to your rom is necessary unles it fixes something you didnt have.
Each Android/Carrier update, would be recomended (or the XDA counterpart) as each new android version (not rom) contains the most updates/fixes. so if you were running a 2.2 (custom or stock) rom it WOULD be worth upgrading to 2.3 when available (custom or stock). but you dont NEED to update your custom rom every couple weeks when they put out their minor update on the same base rom (2.2 for eg.)
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no comment. best regards
Trusselo,
Excellent, thoughtful response; it helped characterize this activity further for me. My concern is now recognized (and conveyed to others...) as not wanting to be required to become a developer to make my involvement with a SmartPhone constructive. Samsung, Android, XDA looks very good to me. As you mentioned, my reading has begun.
Yes, something is not right with my traditional Comic Sans Serif font here; it seems to compress it horizontally, but my aging eyes typically need this font.
We’ve been hard at work on CM9 since Google released Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) into the wild last month, and things are slowly starting to come together. Google did a great job with ICS and added some really awesome features which in some cases replace or deprecate functionality that we had in CM7, so we are reevaluating all of our customizations. A number of devices are already up and running with CM9, and the focus is currently on getting as many devices ready as we can. The first devices (besides the Nexus S, which you can already get from Koush’s section on ROM Manager) that we’ll have ready will mostly likely be devices based on OMAP4, MSM8660/7X30, and Exynos. We also have some Tegra2 tablets in the pipeline such as the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and Asus Transformer. Our goal is to provide continued support to all CM7 devices back to the QSD8250 series of devices such as the Nexus One. I don’t want to make any promises at this time, but that is the plan. And sorry Droid1 owners, we’re dropping support for you. Time to upgrade.
What do you recommend if we have to keep our Droid1?!?
I have no philosophical problem with the Droid1 not having the latest and greatest CM ROM. I can get along without CM7 on the Droid1, since I will be going that way with my Droid Bionic "real soon now". (I'm kinda, sorta, used to this class of support, since I have about 6 Win XP/Pro boxes and a SBS 2003 server here on my SOHO network. All the current best boxes for me and my digital nerds are dual booted running top end Win7 and several flavors of Linux.
So, what is the last build that we should use, how long will it be supported and will security fixes be available?
Thanks,
/s/ BezantSoft
aoidcool said:
And sorry Droid1 owners, we’re dropping support for you. Time to upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you plan to make this seem official... How? If the CyanogenMod developers actually said that, I might have a few unkind remarks about forced hardware upgrades to share.
For the record, I am not complaining about the lack of official CM9 support, the fact that ICS on the Droid1 would likely be a slow/buggy/needless upgrade, or anything along those lines.
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
Until a developer phone appears that meets my stingy requirements, I will continue using my Droid and experimenting with Linux software on it. I only wish that waiting for other people to do what I should be doing was easier, secure in my knowledge that someone else in the world cares about the same things I care about. What can I say, I'm lazy.
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.
gTan64 said:
And you plan to make this seem official... How? If the CyanogenMod developers actually said that, I might have a few unkind remarks about forced hardware upgrades to share.
For the record, I am not complaining about the lack of official CM9 support, the fact that ICS on the Droid1 would likely be a slow/buggy/needless upgrade, or anything along those lines.
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
Until a developer phone appears that meets my stingy requirements, I will continue using my Droid and experimenting with Linux software on it. I only wish that waiting for other people to do what I should be doing was easier, secure in my knowledge that someone else in the world cares about the same things I care about. What can I say, I'm lazy.
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That first post is a quote from the cm blog. So it is 100% true.
VISION 1.5Ghz
I think a kang will show up sooner or later. There are plenty of other interesting OMAP3 devices (Nook Color for one) which should get ports, and OMAP3 doesn't have to lose 60-100MB of RAM to the radio, so with compcache and good tuning 256MB might actually be enough.
It really depends on if OMAP3 HW accell can work fully under ICS. If the Nook Color runs well, so should the Droid...
gTan64 said:
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so your complaint has nothing to do with software development, but with handset manufacturers. What does that have to do with CM saying they won't support what amounts to a 1st gen device?
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but you do have a choice. either upgrade, or you're stuck with whatever they've already built.
:|
Well, someone'll port ics to this 3 year old POS i'm stuck with for another year.
I'd rather have a current os that doesn't run well than a outdated os that does.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk
Mr. Argent said:
I'd rather have a current os that doesn't run well than a outdated os that does.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why????
Sent from my VS910 4G using xda premium
Having no money for a off-contract phone and not being able to upgrade for a year, I have to do something to keep my original droid usable for a year. I find knowing there's a major update available and not getting it due to hardware issues annoying when the g1 got it (even if it was a laggy mess, at least it's not 2.3), which impacts it being what I consider usable.
(Also, I don't want ics launcher. Beneath the veneer of modernity it's still that stale old gingerbread.)
Sent from my nook tablet (eagerly awaiting a bootloader workaroiubd and ics) using Tapatalk.
Mr. Argent said:
Having no money for a off-contract phone and not being able to upgrade for a year, I have to do something to keep my original droid usable for a year. I find knowing there's a major update available and not getting it due to hardware issues annoying when the g1 got it (even if it was a laggy mess, at least it's not 2.3), which impacts it being what I consider usable.
(Also, I don't want ics launcher. Beneath the veneer of modernity it's still that stale old gingerbread.)
Sent from my nook tablet (eagerly awaiting a bootloader workaroiubd and ics) using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in the same boat as you, I have no upgrade for a year. so i'm stuck with my D1. and i agree with your other statement a g1 can handle it yet no one is making an attempt in porting it to the D1 on top of that a 6 year old htc windows mobile phone has it with like 134mb of ram. and yet the droid still has no port whatsoever
As per the title says, just so happen to check the Lenovo forums today after reading here they released TPT source yesterday and sure enough the K1 source was released this morning!
Direct Link
http://download.lenovo.com/lenovo/content/sm/IdeaPadTablet-K1.zip
Link to the Thread
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/IdeaPad-Slate-Tablets/Android-Source-Code/td-p/610273/page/5
Hopefully our humble and dedicated developers can tear this apart and start on some custom ROMS, maybe even kernels?? (I have high hopes clearly!)
On a side note, might not be worth mentioning, but I did notice that the source for the K1 was roughly 72mb in size while the TPT source was in upwards of 202mb?? Same compression for both, food for thought...
Robert
Great news ....the building blocks have arrived
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D with Beats Audio X515m using XDA App
Now hoping for some love, the stock android is pretty slow and painful.....
Will be nice once the custom kernels come.. hopefully they will..
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Thats awesome news, man!!!!!!! I didnt think lenovo would do it but wow, its a start.
Hopefully we can get some sweet roms and kernels on this bad boy (k1).
Just based on this news alone, I have ordered for one..
Sent from my HTC Vision
rezapatel said:
Just based on this news alone, I have ordered for one..
Sent from my HTC Vision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bad choice, hardly any support and current android 3.2.1 on it is buggy for the two that we own, stutters a lot.
Be Prepared for this lengthy response!
twe69 said:
Bad choice, hardly any support and current android 3.2.1 on it is buggy for the two that we own, stutters a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree even with the latest update, there are still bugs in the OS Lenovo loads on this tablet but this should not be a driving force with not buying one. Every tablet I've owned (K1 and the GTablet) or had the chance to tinker with (Xoom, Prime, etc...) have had their flaws, but I also feel this is also based on the user and their personal preferences with using their tablet. Not to mention, what that user would be using the device for (as a toy, or daily driver) has a huge amount to do with it.
What's important here is that they are all running on some form of an Android OS, and if you are willing to tinker and sometimes even experiment with your tablet, you will be able to get to some middle ground (depending on the device, its release date, the community following it has, and when/if the source code is released) based on what you are trying to get out of that particular device to where there are little to no issues.
http://rootzwiki.com/topic/13407-alpha-ideapad-k1-cwm-stock-rooted-rom-120109-build/
For me, I'm currently running the Alpha 3 CWM rom from rootzwiki (link above) and besides I think 1-2 FC's (ONLY happened upon uninstalling pre-loaded apps) it's ran smooth as silk! Granted, I use my K1 as mainly a 'toy' for experimenting with Android SDK, flashing ROM's and general tinkering but still...
Now, you could just drop the $400-$600 on an iPad and not have to worry about FC's and other bugs but then you're left with not only an extremely restricted device but a restricted device that you paid way more for when compared to the K1 for example. Don't get me wrong, after getting my first tablet (GTablet) I quickly realized the quality of the products Apple releases to the consumer public, and if you are a member of that 90%+ percentile of the public that just wants a device to work and doesn't plan on doing anything else to it (and possibly not being as computer savvy as that 5-10% percentile) Apple is the way to go. However atleast from my experiences with the iPad/iPhone, if you plan on doing any modifications remotely resembling base mod's that can be done on an Android device, you're either threatening your warranty or simply SOL.
In short, when I buy an Android phone/tablet I will never expect it to run flawlessly out of the box because A. I'm personally anal/picky/OCD with my hardware and B. I bought it for that initial time investment in order to have a device strictly tuned to my lifestyle and means of use. For this reason alone, an Apple product will never satisfy me (again nothing against anyone who does use Apple, just my 0.02).
I'd rather have a device that is cheaper to buy with arguably the same hardware specs or comparable and is finicky (to say the least at times), but has the potential to run whatever I can throw at it smoothly and most importantly to personalize it on levels that Apple would never allow on their products simply for fear of creating instabilities.
For the K1 however, Lenovo releasing the source is the 1st step towards achieving your own perfectly tuned and personalized device however long it might take. Afterall, one crucial characteristic of an Android user that majority of the members on this forum share is patience! It's what separates us from the rest!
Sorry for the long post, I just felt like expressing my opinion and I was in the typing mood.
Dueces99 said:
I agree even with the latest update, there are still bugs in the OS Lenovo loads on this tablet but this should not be a driving force with not buying one. Every tablet I've owned (K1 and the GTablet) or had the chance to tinker with (Xoom, Prime, etc...) have had their flaws, but I also feel this is also based on the user and their personal preferences with using their tablet. Not to mention, what that user would be using the device for (as a toy, or daily driver) has a huge amount to do with it.
What's important here is that they are all running on some form of an Android OS, and if you are willing to tinker and sometimes even experiment with your tablet, you will be able to get to some middle ground (depending on the device, its release date, the community following it has, and when/if the source code is released) based on what you are trying to get out of that particular device to where there are little to no issues.
http://rootzwiki.com/topic/13407-alpha-ideapad-k1-cwm-stock-rooted-rom-120109-build/
For me, I'm currently running the Alpha 3 CWM rom from rootzwiki (link above) and besides I think 1-2 FC's (ONLY happened upon uninstalling pre-loaded apps) it's ran smooth as silk! Granted, I use my K1 as mainly a 'toy' for experimenting with Android SDK, flashing ROM's and general tinkering but still...
Now, you could just drop the $400-$600 on an iPad and not have to worry about FC's and other bugs but then you're left with not only an extremely restricted device but a restricted device that you paid way more for when compared to the K1 for example. Don't get me wrong, after getting my first tablet (GTablet) I quickly realized the quality of the products Apple releases to the consumer public, and if you are a member of that 90%+ percentile of the public that just wants a device to work and doesn't plan on doing anything else to it (and possibly not being as computer savvy as that 5-10% percentile) Apple is the way to go. However atleast from my experiences with the iPad/iPhone, if you plan on doing any modifications remotely resembling base mod's that can be done on an Android device, you're either threatening your warranty or simply SOL.
In short, when I buy an Android phone/tablet I will never expect it to run flawlessly out of the box because A. I'm personally anal/picky/OCD with my hardware and B. I bought it for that initial time investment in order to have a device strictly tuned to my lifestyle and means of use. For this reason alone, an Apple product will never satisfy me (again nothing against anyone who does use Apple, just my 0.02).
I'd rather have a device that is cheaper to buy with arguably the same hardware specs or comparable and is finicky (to say the least at times), but has the potential to run whatever I can throw at it smoothly and most importantly to personalize it on levels that Apple would never allow on their products simply for fear of creating instabilities.
For the K1 however, Lenovo releasing the source is the 1st step towards achieving your own perfectly tuned and personalized device however long it might take. Afterall, one crucial characteristic of an Android user that majority of the members on this forum share is patience! It's what separates us from the rest!
Sorry for the long post, I just felt like expressing my opinion and I was in the typing mood.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great read excellent points
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Dueces99 I shall check out that rom, will see if its possible for me since I am on the latest official version....
I did have a Blackberry Playbook with the original OS in December and that was much better for web browsing etc. Just hoping that Android 4 will have less issues on the tablet since I will be keeping the Lenovo....
Oh and I have been with Android for over 2 years since Android 1.5 and about 5 android phones..... So yeh I am patient
Will definitely pay attention to the next iteration of Windows Mobile though when I upgrade at the end of the year since I like the responsiveness of Windows Mobile 7/7.5.....
this is great news.. really think of selling mine for 300 or so.... if it still worth that ( 32 gb model) .. i might hold on to it now that the source is release and ( cross fingers) someone ports CM9 to it...
we can only wish...
lenovo said they will release ics for k1
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/IdeaPad...m-Sandwich-for-Ideapad-K1/td-p/638437/page/17
Apologies for the radio silence on this... we have been in discussion with our product teams and shared all the interest and feedback received here.
I believe the current outlook is that a plain version (sounds like it will not include the Lenovo customizations ) of ICS will be made available for download sometime in June. This is a bit later than the original May schedule and will not be pushed as an OTA (over the air update).
I appreciate everyone's patience - I know you have been waiting a while for an update on this.
Thanks
Mark
Alot of Developers have bought this phone!! development for Xperia T / TX and V is going to be good! so far we have 2 elite developers 2 recog developers,, correct me if i am wrong
FXP have 4 members
Bin4ry, Defer, Kali, Jerpelea
Codeworkx!
Tilal6991 too for paranoid android
Gok for kernel is gonna be beast.
Lol @ 4. Good start but not exactly a lot. Yet.
...
Not to doubt or anything but, what is Sony support looking like? I know dev support often is limited by the manufacturer. This isn't exactly the most active section either. Will having devs draw people in? Or will lack of people pull devs away?
Strong chance I'm getting the att version (TL) but, I will admit to being worried about lack of support after a year and having a year left one contract with no official support and lack of dev support because something flashier came out.
Snow_fox said:
Not to doubt or anything but, what is Sony support looking like? I know dev support often is limited by the manufacturer. This isn't exactly the most active section either. Will having devs draw people in? Or will lack of people pull devs away?
Strong chance I'm getting the att version (TL) but, I will admit to being worried about lack of support after a year and having a year left one contract with no official support and lack of dev support because something flashier came out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well this is my first sony device, but looks promising, if sony stays open and doesn't screw up like samsung did, even if they are on updates, we'll have CM team for regural updates. actually, i hope this is first device i'll have for more than a year.
we'll see.
Sent from my Xperia T
Snow_fox said:
Not to doubt or anything but, what is Sony support looking like? I know dev support often is limited by the manufacturer. This isn't exactly the most active section either. Will having devs draw people in? Or will lack of people pull devs away?
Strong chance I'm getting the att version (TL) but, I will admit to being worried about lack of support after a year and having a year left one contract with no official support and lack of dev support because something flashier came out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Support is looking good for devs to get started and this can be seen from the speed CM10 has become available and is progressing on this device. I don't see the lack of activity in this forum as a bad thing and for a dev it's a good thing because they're not hassled every 2 mins with the same repeated support questions or for ETA's (don't do it ). Devs don't choose devices because they're popular, they choose them because they're good to work on and because they personally like the device as remember this is a hobby after all. I for one, if I do get this phone will hope for it to remain as one of the quieter forums but once people start finishing their contracts I can see it attracting a number of people. I finish mine end of this month so that's when I'll be choosing but that choice is based on how easy it'll be to work with as I like to have a play with compiling myself but only for myself really.
I actually chose this device precisely hoping that it wouldn't become too popular. It becomes crazy when people start almost harassing you for a release.
With a less popular device its much more fun.
^aha your right
hello developer!
i think xperia t will get popular because it is the bond phone and the tx looks great in terms of design so it will get popular
Snow_fox said:
Not to doubt or anything but, what is Sony support looking like? I know dev support often is limited by the manufacturer. This isn't exactly the most active section either. Will having devs draw people in? Or will lack of people pull devs away?
Strong chance I'm getting the att version (TL) but, I will admit to being worried about lack of support after a year and having a year left one contract with no official support and lack of dev support because something flashier came out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TL developer support is going to highly depend on the bootloader locking situation.
As I understand it, AT&T has a bad habit of forcing bootloader locks. I refuse to support any device that has a locked bootloader which is not officially unlockable - even if the lock gets broken unofficially, it's the principle of the thing.
tilal6991 said:
I actually chose this device precisely hoping that it wouldn't become too popular. It becomes crazy when people start almost harassing you for a release.
With a less popular device its much more fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. The Infuse was a less popular device, and as a result, the developer community was highly cooperative for a while. Unfortunately, the device itself was a nightmare to work with so it was ditched by many. Although, interestingly enough, now that some of the worst aspects of this device development-wise have been identified, the Infuse is becoming kind of fun to work with again.
In the case of the T - all evidence seems to indicate that it's going to be a highly pleasant device to work with, AND if it's not a super-popular device, it may have a more pleasant development community than some of the more popular devices.
There's an existing well-established team of developers with Sony experience, AND there are also a number of Samsung Exynos refugees that have already made the jump or (in my case) are just waiting to see what their local version of the T has to offer.
That said - based on the developers I've seen hopping over, things are going to be heavily weighed in the AOSP-based firmware side of things. Sony's recent devices have become very attractive to developers of AOSP derivatives due to:
Sony's cooperation with the community in terms of technical information and source releases (see DASH)
Most Sony devices are based on Qualcomm chipsets, and over the past year, CodeAurora has emerged as a high quality reference codebase. (CAF has existed for a long time, but it's not really until this year that I saw people using it heavily.)
Sony's explicit AOSP support, both in terms of binary releases to support JBQ's Xperia S project, and frequent commits to AOSP. In fact, they have one developer working part-time on the AOSP Xperia S tree!
However, going back to Snow_fox's comments - if you want a device that is guaranteed not to be dropped early, purchase a Nexus. With any non-Nexus device, you are always taking risks.
Look at the Samsung Exynos situation - A year ago, Samsung devices were looking like your best bet for ongoing developer support. However, over the past year, a variety of things have changed:
Samsung constantly releases broken HALs that require all sorts of workarounds, and don't play nicely with backwards-compatibility solutions that work on other devices. ICS and JB bringup on Exynos4 devices has been an utter nightmare, leading to the entire team of CM on Exynos devices burning out or coming damn close to it
Samsung decided to use their phones as an outlet for gigantic batches of defective eMMC flash chips. They put workarounds in their firmware but didn't tell anyone. The end result is that you have to tread carefully with any 2011-model Samsung device. Their poor handling of the eMMC disaster has left a sour taste in many developers' mouths.
As a result, many developers are leaving, not necessarily for a device that is flashier, but one that is at least more developer-friendly. I think that in many cases, the Xperia TL will be a downgrade for me compared to my Galaxy Note... But dealing with the Exynos in the Note is driving me utterly insane.
AvRS said:
Support is looking good for devs to get started and this can be seen from the speed CM10 has become available and is progressing on this device. I don't see the lack of activity in this forum as a bad thing and for a dev it's a good thing because they're not hassled every 2 mins with the same repeated support questions or for ETA's (don't do it ). Devs don't choose devices because they're popular, they choose them because they're good to work on and because they personally like the device as remember this is a hobby after all. I for one, if I do get this phone will hope for it to remain as one of the quieter forums but once people start finishing their contracts I can see it attracting a number of people. I finish mine end of this month so that's when I'll be choosing but that choice is based on how easy it'll be to work with as I like to have a play with compiling myself but only for myself really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will have to decide on December 1st what phone I'm going to myself.
I personally understand the appeal of a quieter forum where the same issues aren't asked every couple of minutes.. Once or twice, I've actually had trouble finding a solution wading through the, "How do I ________" and most of them had the response, "do a search" :silly:
tilal6991 said:
I actually chose this device precisely hoping that it wouldn't become too popular. It becomes crazy when people start almost harassing you for a release.
With a less popular device its much more fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah.... there are a lot of ungrateful members. I find myself in an awkward position because, I'm not skilled enough to develop a ROM but, I'm know I'm reliant on whatever XDA puts out to stay up to date with the latest ROMs.
Entropy512 said:
TL developer support is going to highly depend on the bootloader locking situation.
As I understand it, AT&T has a bad habit of forcing bootloader locks. I refuse to support any device that has a locked bootloader which is not officially unlockable - even if the lock gets broken unofficially, it's the principle of the thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I were in a position to take that stance, I would myself.
[/QUOTE]
There's an existing well-established team of developers with Sony experience, AND there are also a number of Samsung Exynos refugees that have already made the jump or (in my case) are just waiting to see what their local version of the T has to offer.
That said - based on the developers I've seen hopping over, things are going to be heavily weighed in the AOSP-based firmware side of things. Sony's recent devices have become very attractive to developers of AOSP derivatives due to:
Sony's cooperation with the community in terms of technical information and source releases (see DASH)
Most Sony devices are based on Qualcomm chipsets, and over the past year, CodeAurora has emerged as a high quality reference codebase. (CAF has existed for a long time, but it's not really until this year that I saw people using it heavily.)
Sony's explicit AOSP support, both in terms of binary releases to support JBQ's Xperia S project, and frequent commits to AOSP. In fact, they have one developer working part-time on the AOSP Xperia S tree!
However, going back to Snow_fox's comments - if you want a device that is guaranteed not to be dropped early, purchase a Nexus. With any non-Nexus device, you are always taking risks.
[/Quote]
That unfortunately isn't really entirely an option for me. I'm on a family plan and have no capability of getting out of it at the moment. I don't have enough data to make 16 gigs with no SD card feasible.
I really got lucky when my Captivate had identical hardware to the Nexus S and Samsung was actually good about supporting the devs.
Look at the Samsung Exynos situation - A year ago, Samsung devices were looking like your best bet for ongoing developer support. However, over the past year, a variety of things have changed:
Samsung constantly releases broken HALs that require all sorts of workarounds, and don't play nicely with backwards-compatibility solutions that work on other devices. ICS and JB bringup on Exynos4 devices has been an utter nightmare, leading to the entire team of CM on Exynos devices burning out or coming damn close to it
Samsung decided to use their phones as an outlet for gigantic batches of defective eMMC flash chips. They put workarounds in their firmware but didn't tell anyone. The end result is that you have to tread carefully with any 2011-model Samsung device. Their poor handling of the eMMC disaster has left a sour taste in many developers' mouths.
As a result, many developers are leaving, not necessarily for a device that is flashier, but one that is at least more developer-friendly. I think that in many cases, the Xperia TL will be a downgrade for me compared to my Galaxy Note... But dealing with the Exynos in the Note is driving me utterly insane.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you think that may have some weight on why Google decided to hop to LG for a Nexus device?
Either way, it sounds like I'll be on the Xperia TL or LG Optimus G this upgrade. The decision isn't exactly becoming easier to make though. At least I managed to scratch off the HOX+
i chose xperia phones becase developers say they are not hard to develop , i have an xperia ray and i have a buttload of roms to choose from... i cant decide so i need to fash every 2week!! (flashaholic :l)
also because sony provides solution for bootloader unlock
Here's what I know so far for the TL. Keep in mind none of this is official, and it is preliminary, so could change.
1) The bootloader will NOT be unlockable on any device that has an active SIMlock. e.g. any device sold on AT&T with a contract subsidy is not going to have an unlockable bootloader. This is almost 100% definite.
2) The bootloader should be unlockable for users who pay full price for the device from AT&T, e.g. anyone who can receive an immediate SIM unlock with AT&T's policies. That said, while AT&T says that any person with a full-price device should be able to immediately remove SIMlocks, often it's a major hassle, and I worry that the bootloader unlock "allowability" process will be even less integrated. Don't count on unlocking your bootloader if you purchase full-price directly from AT&T.
3) Sony may sell the device directly (again - they MAY do it, it's not guaranteed), direct-purchase devices will almost surely have an unlockable bootloader (Not guaranteed, but very likely).
Well,TX seems doesn't support for the rom made to T:crying:
niuzhd said:
Well,TX seems doesn't support for the rom made to T:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
of course not. It's a different device
Coming from laggy XS, now holding TX,
Sony is doing it right this time, TX design and ICS are so smooth, fast and bug free( at least haven't encounter any yet), TBH I don't have any intention to flash Rom or wait for update (JB).
Sent from my LT29i using xda app-developers app
Waiting for my first room tanks all
Envoyé depuis mon LT30p avec Tapatalk
I'm not sure if I can blame this on the race-to-market state that the industry is in but there are a lot of
poorly performing phones being released. Manufacturers rush to release new products without doing
the necessary development tests. Product testing has been moved form the lab to the customer base.
Take the case of the Nexus 4.
I read an article where an HTC Droid DNA user was complaining how HTC is slow to release the latest
Android OS and he decided it was time to make the switch to Nexus because he can't wait for updates.
But do Nexus users really get the best experience?
Nexus devices often use inferior hardware to cut the cost and I have no complaints here - I love the fact
that the Nexus4 costs almost half as much as the Droid DNA. But what about software?
I will give it to Google and LG for releasing a phone where at least everything works, some companies
don't go that far. But the Nexus4 currently works below it's potential. The firmware is buggy and not
optimized for best performance.
- The camera uses the same sensor as the LG Optimus 2X but produces much noisier pictures.
- The autofocus doesn't work that great.
- The screen colors are dialed in to a yellowish hue
- The microphone gain is way too high a distorts easy
There are a lot more annoyances but note that I only listed items that can easily be adjusted. With the
proper equipment it should take just a few hours to calibrate the phone so it works to it's highest
potential. Which makes me wonder whether calibration was done poorly or not at all.
Some argue that Google releases source code and unlocks their devices for independent developers to
adjust to their liking. But developers don't have the type of testing equipment that the manufacturer has
and even with the source code available it could be impossible to figure out how to control hardware modules
without the corresponding documentation. Developers tend to work in the dark most of the time.
Not sure what point I'm driving to here, I'm just frustrated. I'm realizing that I want a device where everything
works great at release time so I don't have to wait for kernel fixes. I wonder when (or if) LG and Google will
address these and how that reflects on the entire phone industry.
4.2 was obviously rushed, as was illustrated by the lack of December in the calendar. That can be fixed in time.
As regards hardware, I totally get where you're coming from. In order to make a decent profit on the handhelds, it's pretty clear that LG cut some corners in everything from components (some) to quality control. Is there a blasted thing that can be done about it from our end? No. But, we have a pretty freakin' awesome phone for $300-$350 with the latest Android. It's a tradeoff. Take it or leave it.
-Mindroid- said:
I'm not sure if I can blame this on the race-to-market state that the industry is in but there are a lot of
poorly performing phones being released. Manufacturers rush to release new products without doing
the necessary development tests. Product testing has been moved form the lab to the customer base.
Take the case of the Nexus 4.
I read an article where an HTC Droid DNA user was complaining how HTC is slow to release the latest
Android OS and he decided it was time to make the switch to Nexus because he can't wait for updates.
But do Nexus users really get the best experience?
Nexus devices often use inferior hardware to cut the cost and I have no complaints here - I love the fact
that the Nexus4 costs almost half as much as the Droid DNA. But what about software?
I will give it to Google and LG for releasing a phone where at least everything works, some companies
don't go that far. But the Nexus4 currently works below it's potential. The firmware is buggy and not
optimized for best performance.
- The camera uses the same sensor as the LG Optimus 2X but produces much noisier pictures.
- The autofocus doesn't work that great.
- The screen colors are dialed in to a yellowish hue
- The microphone gain is way too high a distorts easy
There are a lot more annoyances but note that I only listed items that can easily be adjusted. With the
proper equipment it should take just a few hours to calibrate the phone so it works to it's highest
potential. Which makes me wonder whether calibration was done poorly or not at all.
Some argue that Google releases source code and unlocks their devices for independent developers to
adjust to their liking. But developers don't have the type of testing equipment that the manufacturer has
and even with the source code available it could be impossible to figure out how to control hardware modules
without the corresponding documentation. Developers tend to work in the dark most of the time.
Not sure what point I'm driving to here, I'm just frustrated. I'm realizing that I want a device where everything
works great at release time so I don't have to wait for kernel fixes. I wonder when (or if) LG and Google will
address these and how that reflects on the entire phone industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anddddddd, another whiner..... N4 is a great phone that came out just 2 months ago!!!! It will only get better!!! If you don`t like yours just sell it and head over to the FRUIT store
I don't understand .... You saying that phones like Samsung or apple are bugles?
1. ICS update for gs2. OMG battery drain was stupendous , even though Samsung released update after a month or son it took even longer on carrier based devices
2. IPhone there was an issue with WiFi or so
Fixed within few weeks
3. Nexus 4 - December bug fixed before December (I cant imagine update coming through on devices modified by network operators
It might seem that OEM devices are flawless bout you couldn't be more wrong . they have bugs but not ones that you see at first glance and trust me they take much longer to fix as less people notice them
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
MattSkeet said:
I don't understand .... You saying that phones like Samsung or apple are bugles?
1. ICS update for gs2. OMG battery drain was stupendous , even though Samsung released update after a month or son it took even longer on carrier based devices
2. IPhone there was an issue with WiFi or so
Fixed within few weeks
3. Nexus 4 - December bug fixed before December (I cant imagine update coming through on devices modified by network operators
It might seem that OEM devices are flawless bout you couldn't be more wrong . they have bugs but not ones that you see at first glance and trust me they take much longer to fix as less people notice them
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great point, and one of the main reasons to have a Nexus device.
Nothings perfect bro look at apple maps
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Problems like battery drain and Maps take a long time to debug and fix. It's still
unacceptable but understandable.
Offset colors on a screen should take minutes to adjust with the proper equipment.
Seriously! It should be done right the first time. I'm reading on here that small problems
with the Galaxy Nexus were never fixed.
BigDig said:
Anddddddd, another whiner..... N4 is a great phone that came out just 2 months ago!!!! It will only get better!!! If you don`t like yours just sell it and head over to the FRUIT store
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So because he has legitimate complaints about a device he purchased, he must not voice them and go buy an iPhone? Do you realize how dumb that sounds? Just wanted to point that out.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda premium
-Mindroid- said:
I'm not sure if I can blame this on the race-to-market state that the industry is in but there are a lot of
poorly performing phones being released. Manufacturers rush to release new products without doing
the necessary development tests. Product testing has been moved form the lab to the customer base.
Take the case of the Nexus 4.
I read an article where an HTC Droid DNA user was complaining how HTC is slow to release the latest
Android OS and he decided it was time to make the switch to Nexus because he can't wait for updates.
But do Nexus users really get the best experience?
Nexus devices often use inferior hardware to cut the cost and I have no complaints here - I love the fact
that the Nexus4 costs almost half as much as the Droid DNA. But what about software?
I will give it to Google and LG for releasing a phone where at least everything works, some companies
don't go that far. But the Nexus4 currently works below it's potential. The firmware is buggy and not
optimized for best performance.
- The camera uses the same sensor as the LG Optimus 2X but produces much noisier pictures.
- The autofocus doesn't work that great.
- The screen colors are dialed in to a yellowish hue
- The microphone gain is way too high a distorts easy
There are a lot more annoyances but note that I only listed items that can easily be adjusted. With the
proper equipment it should take just a few hours to calibrate the phone so it works to it's highest
potential. Which makes me wonder whether calibration was done poorly or not at all.
Some argue that Google releases source code and unlocks their devices for independent developers to
adjust to their liking. But developers don't have the type of testing equipment that the manufacturer has
and even with the source code available it could be impossible to figure out how to control hardware modules
without the corresponding documentation. Developers tend to work in the dark most of the time.
Not sure what point I'm driving to here, I'm just frustrated. I'm realizing that I want a device where everything
works great at release time so I don't have to wait for kernel fixes. I wonder when (or if) LG and Google will
address these and how that reflects on the entire phone industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....
frustrated with what?
I turn my phone on it comes on. I dial a number it calls it. I go to a web page it loads it. I stream music is streams it.
Your issue is you seem to think your little bubble of the world applies to everyone. My Phone does not have a yellowish tint. I don't use the microphone. So I don't care about distortion with it. The camera looks fine to me. But then again I aint a photo junkie. Altho if I was I'd use my Nikkon camera, not my phone....
You see, I get a nexus, and android, so that I can tinker. I can create. I can remove, I can improve. I can have the newest and latest.
You seem to get one because? I don't know what you got on for. Cause these things seem lost on you....
Do as others say, Sell it, make an extra hundy, and go get something else.....
OK you're not happy but these threads go nowhere and you can see that already so will stop it now.
Thread closed.