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Microsoft and HTC both agree on XDA-Developers "We can't live with 'em and we can't live without 'em
According to tweakers.net (dutch), a very popular and more important, trustworthy Dutch IT website.http://forum.xda-developers.com/
XDA-Developers breaches intellectual property laws regarding ROM Cooking.
However Microsoft and HTC both agree "We can't live with 'em and we can't live without 'em."
Microsoft will not send take down orders to sites such as XDA-Developers, who offer customized ROMs for windows-mobile telephone.
Some sites offering ROMs based on Windows Mobile 6.5 got take down orders last week. They, However, appeared to be hoax.
“Taking action against sites such as XDA-Developers isn’t a matter of concern for Microsoft” says Maarten Sonneveld of Microsoft Netherlands against tweakers.net. “What happens there, the modifying of ROMs, is illegal. The intellectual property however is not with us. The ROMs are intellectual property of the producers of the phone or the mobile phone providers if it concerns branded telephones. We simple only deliver the OS.”
The biggest producer of Windows Mobile-phones, HTC, also says they don’t have any plans to take action against ROM sites. “What happens there isn’t allowed” says HTC Benelux-CEO Mark Moons,
“But XDA-Developers is the biggest and most active community of Windows Mobile-developers. We can’t live with ‘em and we can’t live without ‘em.”
Last week it seemed there were to come an end to tolerating Windows Mobile-communities.
A certain ‘James Young’ sent emails on behalf of Microsoft to site managers in which he stated that they were sharing illegal content, and summoned them to stop their practices; some site managers, in fact, did this.
It mostly concerned ROMs with betas of Windows Mobile 6.5, the update of Microsoft’s Mobile OS that should appear this summer
Haha nice one
Nice, but doesn't come much as a surprise. This community is the only reason Windows Mobile is still competitive. And Microsoft knows it. Besides that, why should they bother? Other than on the desktop PC, the phone hardware is quite limited without proper drivers WM won't run on phones which weren't supposed to run it in the first place. So Microsoft sold their license, HTC (or any other manufacturer) bought it and end of story. They have absolutly no disadvantage when ppl start cooking ROMs - in the contrary. I can't even begin to image using my X1 or any other WM-phone without the customization options presented here. Without them, I wouldn't have bought another WM-phone and become a WM-fan ... ;-)
Read this on tweakers.net yesterday, don't know if we should be happy about this statement.
But it seems xda-developers is going to be watched carefully by MS and HTC, probably has been already.
Until the take serious actions against this community I'm going to flash my X1 with Touch-IT ROMs as many as possible
I would say Microsoft and HTC is the winners here. The ROM cooking means more people is attracted to the platform and for me the reason I bough the X1 was this community.
Rather than moaning, HTC and Microsoft should make donations to XDADevs because this community is one of the main reasons why both of them rose to unforeseen heights.
skycamefalling said:
Rather than moaning, HTC and Microsoft should make donations to XDADevs because this community is one of the main reasons why both of them rose to unforeseen heights.
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Click to collapse
Totally agree with u lolz
E90 Commie said:
I would say Microsoft and HTC is the winners here. The ROM cooking means more people is attracted to the platform and for me the reason I bough the X1 was this community.
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+1
i bought my htc wizard and SE x1 because of xda-developers.if they shut rom sites down i ll never buy windows mobile device that's for sure.my phone is my home so i ll decide how will i decorate my home not microsoft.cheers
Yeah i've read that also (im dutch and visit that site 3 times a day or so )
I think that htc says "MAKE NICE ROMS XDA, or else we will.....)
I'll add my 2 pennies worth...
I'm not a cook, though I sorely wish I were! However, thanks to XDA developers, I've had WM phones for the past 5 years, up until Blue Angel I *only* would have Nokia phones, but I was given the Blue Angel as a present and hated it. I then accidentally found XDA when I was going to sell the Blue Angel and was looking for a way to unlock the sim. Figuring I had nothing to lose as I hated the phone anyway, I put a new rom on and fell in love! Since then, I've had every HTC phone and just recently went to the Xperia *ONLY* because of this website. If XDA wasn't here, I would have gotten the N96 or a Blackberry.
So, for what it is worth MS and HTC if you're reading... Leave XDA alone, support it where you can, and be happy for the generosity of this community for making the product you produce better and more usable!
the only reason I got rid of my Omina and went back to a HTC made pda was because of the support and options that I can find here, good move from microsoft however I suspect microsoft as always turned a blind eye to a degree (remember the fpt problems?)
Cool. This is a pretty big community of developers.
James Joung lives here in my neighbourhood
Now I understand why he has spent the whole week laughing
Well,
if it wern't for XDA developers, when I got my Orange c500 (Back in the day) that would have been the last WM phone I bought.
Since then ive had:
Orange c550
Orance c600
MDA Vario
HTC TYTN
HTC Touch Diamond
Sony Xperia X1
goes to show the value of XDA... if anything, I think Microsoft, HTC etc should jump on the band wagon and help chefs get the best out of WM, or at least, some kind of formal agreement should be attained to help protect the community
can't live without them(xda),hehe.. htc and microsoft should donate to support xda !
gtrab said:
James Joung lives here in my neighbourhood
Now I understand why he has spent the whole week laughing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe he was laughing because his CEO, told him that if he will try to touch this site, he will have to fill up for unemployment... This site have 41,159 members (ONLY ) and allmost all of us, we own between 2-4 HTC pda phones. If HTC will loose us, I guess that they will show the middle finger to Microsoft and they will stick with Android from the time on...
To be honest in that perverse way MS has BENEFITTED from 'Piracy' etc. throughout their history. Take Office for example - way back in the day Lotus and Wordperfect were the dominant market forces. MS were trying to force their way into the market wth their Office products. In the end they blew away the competition - how? Because their media had no copy protection - thus Office Workers ended up getting copies from work to put on their home PCs to carry on extra work at home. The others had copy protection.
MS turned a blind eye to this because they knew that the more people had Office, the more they would want it in their workplace - so much so that in the end how many companies use those products anymore? Now that they are the dominant force, Piracy is an issue.
It is the same with sites like XDA-Devs. The mobile phone market is huge and will get bigger even in these times. WinMo is still a small part of that market - Nokia and Symbian undoubtably have an edge here. However people are becoming more savvy about mobiles and want more from them which is where MS, RIM, and Apple come in (with an improving Symbian).
However if all the consumers had to rely on was 'Stock' ROMs and buggy WinMo (esp. when consumers will compare it to the iPhone etc.) then WinMo would have nowehere near the amount of consumers, and would die a slow death. However thanks to XDA-Devs (and sites like these) we can buy these phones confident that some super talented Cook will provide us with a ROM that will get us the full experience of these devices. Hence we will then buy the next generation, then the next etc.
MS and HTC know this - hence why they can't 'live without 'em'. No point cutting off your nose to spite your face eh?....
@itje
after reading the good news.. please bring back your Touch-IT WM 6.5 project rom.. hehe =)
damskie said:
@itje
after reading the good news.. please bring back your Touch-IT WM 6.5 project rom.. hehe =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He just did, and posted the new ROM for download.
[/offtopic]
I like the digital world .
Since the last year I met my first windows mobile phone : htc tornado. I have been attaracted by the smart device. Using it, I can surf the wap more freely and I can do a lot of things with it. I regard it as a little computers.
Having used the tornado half of a year, I turned my phone into pocket pc, the first phone is the classical htc herms. But I think it is too thick and too heavy, so I turned to htc elf in a month. Aha, and in about half of a year, I got my diamond. I think diamond is nearly a perfect phone, except for its low battery and low ringtones. But I can accept it. I am a college student , I do not have much money for me to change my phone . I have the spirit to do the research for the smart device.
I have been a windows mobile fans since I met it. So I show the technology to my friends ,and more and more friends join in the windows mobile. They felt it was amazing just like me.
Since I Like the windows os so much, I begin hate the other os,such as symbain, I think it is a simple os and the hard device is poor and has little fun to search. Maybe I have been extremed, but I really do not like it.
But the windows os still have the disadvantages. As we know, the 65536 colors limit the screen. The other os have supported the higher colors many years ago. Though the windows os have the good cpu or higer ram, but the speed can hardly make the users satisfied. The biggest shortcomings is that the windows os are not easy to use unless you have much time to do research for it. I think it is really a big problem. Not everybody have much time to update the os or search how I can use it as a normal phone. But we have seen the change of the windows mobile. We have seen the new UI like touchflo3d,spbmobile shell. I think the Microsoft and the producers still have the ability to change the User Experience.
Some guys may be hard to understand my English, because English is not my mother language. I am a Chinese, aha! Thanks for everybody come here to see my first article in the forum. Er...I have a wish that guys may like htc, you may know htc is from taiwan. And taiwan is a provience of China. ha! It is too far away from the topic...
What is the objective to open this thread??
vishalkishnani said:
What is the objective to open this thread??
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Click to collapse
just talk ,friends.
Welcome! Enjoy your Diamond and this forum
Hey,welcome, i am also fresh to WM, and come from China.
In my opinion, I don't think WM is the best OS, you have to reset your phone maybe once a week. I like this so called Diamond thing, although I am not interested in upgrading my phone. I like the original ROM. still try finding some useful softwares.
Anyway enjoy your Diamond
Hahaha, welcome and I'm newbie too. Diamond is really top device! Although wm is not the best os it fits me most and I love my diamond!
Hope you can have a fun here.
When I originally chose the successor to my aging gSmart phone, I did a lot(!) of research on functionality, features and technological viability.
But somehow it never appeared to me to check out the viability of the underlying Operating System (WinMo) itself - given my early history with PalmOS and how Palm Inc. had just surrendered to Microzoft over nite, it never dawned on me that WinMo itself might one day share the same fate as the doomed Palm Operating System.
But now I stumbled across this Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile
Now did I just spend $800 on a phone (and am about to waste another $100 on renewing my non-transferable licenses) that won't have any Operating System Updates coming past 2010?!
In that article HTC is alleged to not just be the greatest supplier of WinMo phones, with 80% they're pretty much *it* - meaning no HTC no WinMo phone market no more.
Now what does HTC say about their commitment to the WinMo platform?
And if HTC decides not to release e.g. WM7 for the HD2, will the ROM cookers of XDA come to our aid and port for us (please) one of those leaked versions?
So many questions and so few answers
WM will still be developed. ROM updates will be released. WM7 will be released for the HD2 probably officially and for free. I really don't see the problem. Besides the HTC Sense hides WM so much that if there wasn't the start icon on the screen you wouldn't even notice it works on WM...
gregormax said:
WM will still be developed. ROM updates will be released. WM7 will be released for the HD2 probably officially and for free. I really don't see the problem. Besides the HTC Sense hides WM so much that if there wasn't the start icon on the screen you wouldn't even notice it works on WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Microsoft have rested on their laurels for too long, and WM7 might be too far away to do any good. But don't worry, WM6.6 is just around the corner.... What is that gonna bring???
Android has come from nowhere, fueled by the Iphone?
WM is just cluncky right now, HTC can only cover over the little cracks of WM, but the big cracks still exist. One day soon, even HTC will say "Windows... ahhh Feck it!!!"
I've always poo-pooed Android because I would not want to leave the WM apps I have on my device. But those apps I have are apps that rectify WM shortcomings in the first place - shortcomings that don't appear on Android.
There are only two apps I can't live without and would keep me using WM a device, and they are My Sport Training and My Personal Diet. And in 2010 they are going to be ported over to Android. When I see them on Android, I will sit up....
I just think all the other operating systems are getting more polished, but WM is still a turd. And an old turd at that....
A final point that has just come to me.... People say that WM allows you to alter the settings and just tinker.... why? Because it is crap and you need to spend so much time getting it right? Because people here at forums like this can do better and produce software better than MS or HTC????
Am I ranting??? Am I coming to the end of WM?
Discuss...
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
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Click to collapse
That's particularly offensive and you should apologise to gregormax immediately for that!
The "article" you linked suggest that it may be possible that windows mobile will no longer be developed. It's an analyst suggesting a possibility - it is not fact, or even likely.
You should read the whole thing again, but don't take it as gospel just because an analyst was "quoted" on a wiki page.
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good analogies... My Amiga 500 Plus had a 170mb hardrive. Huge!!!!! I only filled 40mb of it! lol... And I could run a country off that! And that was only 18 years ago... LOL
I don't see what the fuss is about. What more do you want it to do?
It sends emails, sms (some times ) & mms
Connects to the internet.
Has wifi
Can be used as a router
Takes photos & video
Plays videos
Has weather & stocks
Finger friendly (If you say its not you have chubby fingers and should start eating lettice)
Plays games
Theres loads more. So what if WM7 doesn't come out on this it's a great phone as it is (apart from sms issue)
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
balane said:
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u forgot making coffee...
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all you get support and new updates from HTC. A new version of WM? OK, what for? You write about Atari, Palm, etc. but this just shows you don't know what you're talking about. What great feature do you see for phones coming before WM7 is released (this year)? Because right now with the 6.5 you can do EVERYTHING the competition offers and even more (compare the HD2 to the iPhone for instance). Your arguments about Amiga and Atari are quite... let's say childish. The last popular Amiga was released more than 15 years ago so what do you want to prove with that. The problem here is not the software but the hardware. In 3 years the HD2 won't be probably even decent compared to newer devices and system updates won't help. Do you think that with a new Amiga OS (i.e. Workbench) you would now be able to open 1GB files on an Amiga 1200 with 2MB of RAM? Wish you luck .
In matter of OS I really don't see any update which would be a must before WM7 is released and as we all know WM7 will be probably available for the HD2 for free. So if you see some indispensable updates for WM6.5 be my guest - I really wonder what it could be. Besides it's really smart to rely on Wikipedia for official news... afaik WM is still in development and WM6.6 will be released soon - just as I wrote in the first post - quote: "WM will still be developed". The problem is that for no apparent reason you think WM won't be developed anymore and that's a quite naive statement.
johncmolyneux said:
That's particularly offensive and you should apologise to gregormax immediately for that!
The "article" you linked suggest that it may be possible that windows mobile will no longer be developed. It's an analyst suggesting a possibility - it is not fact, or even likely.
You should read the whole thing again, but don't take it as gospel just because an analyst was "quoted" on a wiki page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is it offensive if I ask someone who in essence says "If I don't see my OpSys then I don't have to worry about it not being supported any more" if he tries to be dense on purpose?
That is not offensive at all, and I will most certainly not apologize for making a valid point here.
Quite to the contrary I think that gregormax should think about how qualified his remarks were, which most certainly did not address the issue of my posting at all - but just tried to belittle it all.
And I did read the whole darn article, including the part where every(!) industry analyst agreed that 2010 is the out time for Windows Mobile and WinMo7 the last major release of it.
And I have seen this cycle happening before.
As soon as the OpSys manufacturer pulls the plug on their platform, all the major SW developers will stop developing for it - and in most cases will also stop supporting their apps.
Regardless of how much money users just paid for their software.
So I do think that this is a valid point of concern for anyone spending close to a thousand dollars on their HTC device.
Towserspvm2000 said:
Good analogies... My Amiga 500 Plus had a 170mb hardrive. Huge!!!!! I only filled 40mb of it! lol... And I could run a country off that! And that was only 18 years ago... LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realize that there are still Amiga computers sold even today?
They have two companies in Italy still marketing that platform.
Their designs look quite impressive, until you get to the actual technical details.
And then you realize how hopelessly outdated the whole darn thing is.
And "running a whole country of 170mb"?
I doubt that very much. Even back in the days, it took more than that just to manage a single city. That is what IBM mainframes were made for.
All is said but here my 5 cent.
A company like MS does have the claim to be present in all possible software markets regardless of the fact wheter with or without success. They will never drop it even if they lose money because to them its an image thingy....
I'm also pretty sure that Microsoft will bring at some point their own smartphone which is currently nothing else but a rumour but gonna come true once and that will be running on such an OS developed by MS as well.
Cheers
LEE
Towserspvm2000 said:
Microsoft have rested on their laurels for too long, and WM7 might be too far away to do any good. But don't worry, WM6.6 is just around the corner.... What is that gonna bring???
Android has come from nowhere, fueled by the Iphone?
WM is just cluncky right now, HTC can only cover over the little cracks of WM, but the big cracks still exist. One day soon, even HTC will say "Windows... ahhh Feck it!!!"
I've always poo-pooed Android because I would not want to leave the WM apps I have on my device. But those apps I have are apps that rectify WM shortcomings in the first place - shortcomings that don't appear on Android.
There are only two apps I can't live without and would keep me using WM a device, and they are My Sport Training and My Personal Diet. And in 2010 they are going to be ported over to Android. When I see them on Android, I will sit up....
I just think all the other operating systems are getting more polished, but WM is still a turd. And an old turd at that....
A final point that has just come to me.... People say that WM allows you to alter the settings and just tinker.... why? Because it is crap and you need to spend so much time getting it right? Because people here at forums like this can do better and produce software better than MS or HTC????
Am I ranting??? Am I coming to the end of WM?
Discuss...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I would have most certainly accused you of "ranting" myself, until I read what all those Industry Analysts and the major phone suppliers said about their (lacking) support for WinMo - that and the ever Shrinking Market Share of WM.
Now I feel I just wasted another thousand dollars (phone + SW licenses) on a freaking Dinosaur.
A device outdated by its Operating System before it even hit the shelves
lee1980 said:
All is said but here my 5 cent.
A company like MS does have the claim to be present in all possible software markets regardless of the fact wheter with or without success. They will never drop it even if they lose money because to them its an image thingy....
...
Cheers
LEE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They used to say the same About Apple and the Newton, until Apple dropped that platform over night.
Same with IBM and OS/2.
I just don't see how they can survive their ever shrinking market share and I never knew that 80% of all WinMo phones are made by one single company - HTC.
balane said:
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care about Sandwiches or what happens a decade from now.
But that my old TomTom App & Maps no longer work on the HTC HD2 and that it is now highly unlikely that TomTom will ever offer support for that platform, yes that does concern me a lot.
The same goes for my multiple talking language dictionaries I own, as I do travel excessively.
If they are not ported over, I just wasted close to $200 for language packs I can't even use as weights (should have bought the paper version instead ;-(
There are many, many such applications that I used to run on my old gSmart phone, and was waiting to be ported to the WVGA HD2 platform.
But after reading that article I highly, highly doubt that many SW vendors will be in a hurry to invest development capacity for a dieing platform.
pharao said:
They used to say the same About Apple and the Newton, until Apple dropped that platform over night.
Same with IBM and OS/2.
I just don't see how they can survive their ever shrinking market share and I never knew that 80% of all WinMo phones are made by one single company - HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well but those examples are a bit different. OS/2 was dropped because microsoft finished the coop. with IBM (simply a strategic decision for focusing on windows) and the newton because of the not given market acceptance. None of the because of the big competition on the market like now....
Maybe they should corner the HTC ;-)
You are so wrong my friend. I have an ex colleague that works for Route 66. They received all the Android prototypes and WM phones to get software developed on them. Android will get navigation software and my guess is that the HD2 will also get navigation software for the new wm7. He can't tell me more, because of the confidentiality.
I really think you are exaggerating and the lack of inside info, or any kind of confirmation, strong rumor, or whatever is making you think this way.
Just give it a couple of months until we see wm7 and we get an official confirmation for the hd2.
pharao said:
Why is it offensive if I ask someone who in essence says "If I don't see my OpSys then I don't have to worry about it not being supported any more" if he tries to be dense on purpose?
That is not offensive at all, and I will most certainly not apologize for making a valid point here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I told you to apologise because this is supposed to be a mature and helpful forum, and not filled with people who immediately start name-calling as soon as there is a person who disagrees with their point of view. People who resort to that are singularly responsible for the only bad aspect of this whole forum.
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You WERE offensive and you SHOULD apologise. If you had any level of maturity you would at least accept that name-calling is pretty pathetic and pointless.
lorin.bute said:
You are so wrong my friend. I have an ex colleague that works for Route 66. They received all the Android prototypes and WM phones to get software developed on them. Android will get navigation software and my guess is that the HD2 will also get navigation software for the new wm7. He can't tell me more, because of the confidentiality.
I really think you are exaggerating and the lack of inside info, or any kind of confirmation, strong rumor, or whatever is making you think this way.
Just give it a couple of months until we see wm7 and we get an official confirmation for the hd2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I spoke with TomTom about support for the HD2 they told me flat out "no support and none planned".
And I need turn by turn mapping software that includes places like Eastern Europe, Africa and South America.
Not just maps for downtown London or Los Angeles.
And there are not so many GPS capable map application providers out there who "cover the whole globe".
The WinMo support by companies like TomTom was the reason why I bought my first WinMo phone to begin with, as I had originally set my mind on a Linux phone.
If HTC can not secure that kind of support for the HD2, then I made a serious misjudgment in spending that much money for this device :-(
1- Cannot install any program on my phone such as SSH client I use for work and nothing on the market place.
2- No GPS with direction software.
3- Cannot sync my device with outlook 2010 on my computer.
4- RTL or BIDI languages show character by character and I cannot read websites in those languages.
5- Opera mobile was my choice of surfing the web but now cannot be used.
6- Not much choice of ringtones or themes.
7- I do not want to use any pirated software but this is not what I expected. I feel trapped in Microsoft powered HTC jail and am very concerned about my privacy.
The device works fast, is responsive and neat but I consider not buying HTC mobile products anymore.
wow. you just became an XDA member just to post your rants on HTC?
hmbe said:
1- Cannot install any program on my phone such as SSH client I use for work and nothing on the market place.
2- No GPS with direction software.
3- Cannot sync my device with outlook 2010 on my computer.
4- RTL or BIDI languages show character by character and I cannot read websites in those languages.
5- Opera mobile was my choice of surfing the web but now cannot be used.
6- Not much choice of ringtones or themes.
7- I do not want to use any pirated software but this is not what I expected. I feel trapped in Microsoft powered HTC jail and am very concerned about my privacy.
The device works fast, is responsive and neat but I consider not buying HTC mobile products anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
biernes_atrece said:
wow. you just became an XDA member just to post your rants on HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's got a valid point but I wouldn't blame HTC. Those problems are on all Windows Phone 7 phones. HTC makes great phones. Buy an Android phone dude. I have the HD7 but I also kept all my Android phones I've bought over the years. My HD7 stays put away in my pocket unless the battery in my Android phone dies or I wanna watch something on Netflix and it will stay in my pocket or put away until HTC/Microsoft/T-Mobile release a MAJOR update to fix or add all the features I need in my phone. I have a feeling it will remain in my pocket for quite some time tho.
biernes_atrece said:
wow. you just became an XDA member just to post your rants on HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not the point and these are not rants.
If this helps others or points htc/ms to do something, i would again register to post.
8- Battery life is real short. I read somewhere that changing the backgound to full black will improve the battery life and it does but wifi, 3g, screen light and light background are battery killers! I used to have much more battery life on my old diamond 2!
julez456 said:
He's got a valid point but I wouldn't blame HTC. Those problems are on all Windows Phone 7 phones. HTC makes great phones. Buy an Android phone dude. I have the HD7 but I also kept all my Android phones I've bought over the years. My HD7 stays put away in my pocket unless the battery in my Android phone dies or I wanna watch something on Netflix and it will stay in my pocket or put away until HTC/Microsoft/T-Mobile release a MAJOR update to fix or add all the features I need in my phone. I have a feeling it will remain in my pocket for quite some time tho.
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Click to collapse
Thank you for your post. To be honest I do not like Google much and think they are not clear about what they do with the information they gather over people and their activities.
Droid phone as you mentiond do have many good points but a lot of my points also applies to phones like desire hd.
I guss it is about users againt big guys or better said being jailled by big guys. Take IPhone as an example. Microsoft mobile was the only one that was not a warden but looks like competition drives them that way. It is a shame. They just do not or do not like to think if they are good the customer will stay with them.
I wonder if there was this much crying when iPhone came out?
JamesDax said:
I wonder if there was this much crying when iPhone came out?
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Click to collapse
exactly.... nothing is perfect on birth...everything needs versions and versions...
be it software or hardware...everything will become perfect or nearly perfect in time. ( for example : windows xp was crap , then with sp2 ...BAM!!!)ok nothing else is coming to my head..but you got the idea , right ??
with updates and revised mobile bodies , any mobile can top.,..
just give HTC or MS ( or any other company ) some time for their updates, after they review all the positive negative feedback....
Although you'r a first time poster on XDA, i'm sure your familiar with Forum's in general and forum rules. The main one being READ THE STICKIES AND SEARCH BEFORE POSTING.
All of what you have said has been convered a dozen times and is also consolidated with the other "Features" which the OS is lacking in a Stickie at the top of this forum (here) AND in the WP7 Generic Forum (Here or Here).
As for some of your concerns, why are you concerned about your privacy? Please explain. The "changing the background colour to black" won't help you with an HD7, as it uses an SLCD screen, meaning no matter whether it's white or black, the backlight will still be on. This is only relevant for LED screens where a black screen means the pixels are not illuminate and therefore consuming no power (however when they're white, they consume up to 3x as much power as an LCD screen). My HD7 provides me with about 36 hours of charge, with screen brightness set to auto, and wifi/bluetooth/gsm all turned on. I could go a day and a half without a charge however i've always charged smartphones every night anyway as they all consume alot of power.
Other than that, welcome to the forum. As other's have said, the OS is only 4 months old. Give it time. The features you want will become available sooner or later.
Thanks everyone for your replies.
I know that a lot of my points are posted and discussed in other post but I thought it might be good to put them together as a sort of complaint.
Apple's IPhone mobile OS was new and I can see 3 and 4 share a lot of features. With Google you know that you will have to do syncs online. I had an idea about what he wanted and WP7 was disappointing. However I have to wait and see what will happen after MS and/or HTC work on HD7.
I have to sync my calendar and contacts with my live account and this is a huge lake of privacy in WP7.
Given the fact that I have paid for a lot of apps on my diamond 2 such as SSH client, VoIP softphone, GPS, I thought just like software on my desktop I will be able to use most of them or there will be an upgrade for my HD7 WP7.
I sit crossing my fingers and hope big guys think about users.
Windows Phone 7 is clearly not for you. Return the phone and get something else.
hmbe said:
Thanks everyone for your replies.
I know that a lot of my points are posted and discussed in other post but I thought it might be good to put them together as a sort of complaint.
Apple's IPhone mobile OS was new and I can see 3 and 4 share a lot of features. With Google you know that you will have to do syncs online. I had an idea about what he wanted and WP7 was disappointing. However I have to wait and see what will happen after MS and/or HTC work on HD7.
I have to sync my calendar and contacts with my live account and this is a huge lake of privacy in WP7.
Given the fact that I have paid for a lot of apps on my diamond 2 such as SSH client, VoIP softphone, GPS, I thought just like software on my desktop I will be able to use most of them or there will be an upgrade for my HD7 WP7.
I sit crossing my fingers and hope big guys think about users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude what do u want??? every one knew what WP7 can and can not do.... u still bought the device and now u are blaming the MS and HTC.... diamond 2 screen and hd 7 screen are two diffrent worlds, size is very diffrent... if you want to save battery, use auto screen brightness, do not push email....
hmbe said:
Thanks everyone for your replies.
I know that a lot of my points are posted and discussed in other post but I thought it might be good to put them together as a sort of complaint.
Apple's IPhone mobile OS was new and I can see 3 and 4 share a lot of features. With Google you know that you will have to do syncs online. I had an idea about what he wanted and WP7 was disappointing. However I have to wait and see what will happen after MS and/or HTC work on HD7.
I have to sync my calendar and contacts with my live account and this is a huge lake of privacy in WP7.
Given the fact that I have paid for a lot of apps on my diamond 2 such as SSH client, VoIP softphone, GPS, I thought just like software on my desktop I will be able to use most of them or there will be an upgrade for my HD7 WP7.
I sit crossing my fingers and hope big guys think about users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, it seems you didn't do enough research before making the jump to Windows Phone 7.
Forget about the phone hardware itself, Windows Phone 7 is a totally different platform than Windows Mobile 6.5 and below. Two totally separate products. Your complaints are not complaints because they are all issues that Microsoft is well aware of and that everyone has discussed before. This is a brand new product, and of course things won't be perfect and won't have all the features you demand.
As for the software you previously purchased, that's not a fault of Microsoft as they did not develop such software. That falls on the developers of your software. They make the decision whether to develop software compatible with Windows Phone 7, and they make the decision to offer you free upgrades or not. That is not something Microsoft can control. So regardless of the platform, when you buy software, you are at the mercy of those developers.
And in regards to your privacy and information through Windows Live, you are not required to sign in with a Windows Live ID. You can skip that part of the setup process and use the basic features of your phone. But you miss out on many of the phone's features of course. So that is totally up to you.
JamesDax said:
I wonder if there was this much crying when iPhone came out?
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Click to collapse
Hellz no! And if there was this much crying nonbody could pull steve jobs' sack out of their face long enough to show you their tears.
I understand the OP's issues... as minor as they are, but sweet Jesus it has been beat to death. Nobody needs empty praise, but the unecessary crying over what amounts to nothing, or temporary shortcomings needs to stop.
Or better yet, it could be worse. Here we're wanting a FREE software update. With apple you'll be waiting till next year to buy a whole new phone so you can get something that another phone has had for the past 5 years.
And with Android (as cool as it is) you may or may not even get the latest/greatest updates.
So... uhh, yeah... g'head and dry those tears Homie.
1. MS not release socket support right now yet til Mango update,so no any ssh apps for sure.
2. I think that from above.
3. Maybe TouchXperience can help you.
youtube.com/watch?v=aAgd-iTBlGs
4...
5. Because of no socket support, any browser must be use an IE engine to communicate web browser, so no need to use an other browser.
6. I think I see this answer in "Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking section".
7. If MS not awaking right now, we have no choice, because we know WP7 is good but not perfect yet, so MS should be hurry up.
I have HD7 too but I'm no comment it's good or not to buy.
Because bought before.. played before.
Thank you all for you posts.
Have to admit that I did not do my homework before buying a HD7.
Having said this, it is not a real excuse just to say WP7 is different to 6.5 and below. It is like you like ice-cream and try to buy one but are presented with yoghurt in the shop and the shop owner says you needed to do a research before asking for ice-cream!
Having said all this, I got an e-mail from HTC that they have forwarded my mail about these point to Microsoft.
It is all up MS what they will decide to do.
Do you think Microsoft decides to take a user point of view into consideration or just like others thinks their new OP is good and will do anything. I guess some of these points will take huge changes to the OS and their marketing plans.
And I should not complain because I had to do more research in advance .
hmbe said:
Thank you all for you posts.
Have to admit that I did not do my homework before buying a HD7.
Having said this, it is not a real excuse just to say WP7 is different to 6.5 and below. It is like you like ice-cream and try to buy one but are presented with yoghurt in the shop and the shop owner says you needed to do a research before asking for ice-cream!
Having said all this, I got an e-mail from HTC that they have forwarded my mail about these point to Microsoft.
It is all up MS what they will decide to do.
Do you think Microsoft decides to take a user point of view into consideration or just like others thinks their new OP is good and will do anything. I guess some of these points will take huge changes to the OS and their marketing plans.
And I should not complain because I had to do more research in advance .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, you are comparing ice cream to yogurt. Two totally different things. It is a very valid excuse. If you like ice cream, then you probably shouldn't have bought yogurt, or at least, done some research on yogurt before you bought it so that you knew what you were getting. You can complain all you like, but yogurt isn't going to change into ice cream because you want it to. They may share similarities, but they are not and will never be the same.
Same goes for Windows Mobile/Windows Phone. Windows Mobile 6.5 and Windows Phone 7 are two different platforms going in the two different directions. Microsoft recognized that one path wasn't going anywhere, so it took a look around and went in a different direction. So Windows Phone 7 may share some similarities to Windows Mobile, but they aren't and probably will never be the same product ever.
Both platforms cater to two different audiences, and if you like Windows Mobile 6.5, that's fine. Stick with it. You just have to realize that it is unfortunately a dead platform and you won't see any further updates. Windows Phone 7 is different and takes new and unique steps to a more cohesive and connected platform, and if you don't like it, the simple solution would be to not buy it.
If you are hoping that Windows Phone will become like Windows Mobile, then you should probably give up hope, as Microsoft has made it clear that this platform is something totally different.
The ice cream owner who sold you yogurt didn't tell you he was giving you yogurt.
Microsoft however, made it clear they are now selling cakes instead of ice creams or yogurt.
If you're still looking for ice cream and yogurt, you went to the wrong shop
biernes_atrece said:
The ice cream owner who sold you yogurt didn't tell you he was giving you yogurt.
Microsoft however, made it clear they are now selling cakes instead of ice creams or yogurt.
If you're still looking for ice cream and yogurt, you went to the wrong shop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cute....
those ppl will never stop coming... and some of them dont even have a WP7 device... the best of all they never get disappointed by what they do, just push their short comings to MS and HTC..
biernes_atrece said:
The ice cream owner who sold you yogurt didn't tell you he was giving you yogurt.
Microsoft however, made it clear they are now selling cakes instead of ice creams or yogurt.
If you're still looking for ice cream and yogurt, you went to the wrong shop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cake?!
Well, I think it also was not clear when I bought my HD7 and MS did not make it clear that no other software but only new ones from market place will work on WP7.
Anyways I own a HD7 and am happy with lots of its features. In some features it rocks compare to Iphone or Android phones.
But are you telling me nothing I say makes sense?
Basically the more Windows Phone users there are, the more apps are purchased, the more developers see Windows Phone as a worthwhile OS. It is best for all of us if Windows Phone gets huge.
Where am I going with all this?
On Hot UK Deals website, I searched for the keyword "Lumia" and I was shocked at the search results. Nearly all the entries are severely marked cold. Not too long ago they were naturally hot but all of a sudden all of them cold? Something is not right.
Two possible reasons:
1) Android or iPhone users are voting them all cold. Maybe some forum someone has suggested to make them all cold.
2) Could it be Google or Apple at play? Employing people to down vote anything related to Windows Phone?
I ask all Windows Phone users to please take a moment to visit the site and search for Lumia or Windows Phone and vote hot any of the results. We NEED a huge user base for developers and others to take the OS seriously.
Please!
To be honest, I don't see this as a surprise, nor as a conspiracy theory... Face it, from WP7 to WP8 the biggest changes in OS were the live tile size and multitasking.
Most of the issues that WP7 had, WP8 still has and it seems that MS doesn't even try solving them. And what about apps?
If you take a look at Skype on other mobile OS (iOS or Android), you'll see that it's a premium experience over Skype on Windows Phone,
but whose to blame for that?
Who knows what can we excpect when WP9 comes out... Maybe they will make tiles circle shaped, I bet they think that is what every user craves for!
P.S. No troll, no flame. Just plain simple facts.
with GDR3 comming out soon for better hardware and better screen resolutions, maybe everyone is waiting for the better phones. Windows Phones is slowly, but surely gaining traction. For every day use, you have to admit that Windows Phone is pretty solid.
aclegg2011 said:
For every day use, you have to admit that Windows Phone is pretty solid.
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Click to collapse
I certainly agree with this, but is that enough to get Windows Phone rolling? For everyday user, who doesn't expect nothing advanced,
WP is definetly one of the best solutions on the market but MS has to do a better job to get to Apple and Android users.
What they're doing at this moment leads them nowhere and WP won't be getting anywhere near the top of the market ladder.
And yes, prices of WP handsets are going down and there's a little demand for them. If you don't trust me, try selling your Windows Phone...
Conspirancy? Really??
Maan, there's a reason why most WP fanboys are among the most delusional and plain out retarded.
You see a change in a random electronics website and the first thing you think about is a conspirancy? Really? You think Google would waste time on such a little website with little traffic just to cement his already stable position?
Apple??? Are you serious?? Apple is desperately trying to remain second in the mobile os world, and you think it has time to invest in such an operation?
Windows Phone is not attracting developers because of it's own limitations AND the user base.
If there's anyone to blame it's just Microsoft.
Thanks for your post toza but with all due respect what has your answer got to do with the op?
The op is about phones being voted down based on cost/value/deal and nothing to do with the OS or live tiles or apps. Someone somewhere is voting them cold deliberately in order to avoid new customers purchasing them.
Do you see what I mean?
tboy2000 said:
The op is about phones being voted down based on cost/value/deal and nothing to do with the OS or live tiles or apps.
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Click to collapse
Yes yes, I'm sorry if it sounded off topic. Please let me explain very briefly.
My personal opinion is that OS, app usability, level of customization etc., directly affect the value of product...
Therefore if the product value is low, customer is not satisfied with it and rates it bad.
Those are kinda the basics of marketing. It's the whole package that makes the product
I mean, no hard feelings, didn't mean to sound off topic
Taurenking said:
Conspirancy? Really??
Maan, there's a reason why most WP fanboys are among the most delusional and plain out retarded.
You see a change in a random electronics website and the first thing you think about is a conspirancy? Really? You think Google would waste time on such a little website with little traffic just to cement his already stable position?
Apple??? Are you serious?? Apple is desperately trying to remain second in the mobile os world, and you think it has time to invest in such an operation?
Windows Phone is not attracting developers because of it's own limitations AND the user base.
If there's anyone to blame it's just Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The almighty has spoken.
Actually Samsung were guilty of something similar so it can happen. There is no other reason for these good deals to not just be voted cold, but freezing. I am a regular user on that website so i know the patterns the deals get. This is abnormal. Something is up.
Heaven forbid to ask you to vote hot is too much to ask.
The problem with developers is why should they develop for an OS that has less "customers" than Apple or Android? I doubt it is the phone's limitations. Money is where its at. This is my point. Let's make these deals more enticing to a newbie by fixing this petty down voting.