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Xperia T/TX/TL firmware 9.1.A.0.489 certified

Hello!
PTCRB XperiaT/TX/TL Jelly Bean firmware incoming; firmware version 9.1.A.0.489 certified
31 Jan 2013

Very good news!

ludwikjonkisz said:
Hello!
PTCRB XperiaT/TX/TL Jelly Bean firmware incoming; firmware version 9.1.A.0.489 certified
31 Jan 2013
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When is it coming ? Jan the 31st ....So today ?ok Not today but weeks later http://www.xperiablog.net/2013/01/3...oming-firmware-version-9-1-a-0-489-certified/ better late then never though I wouldn't expect never for such a new phone that would be just ridiculous

Just out of interest, when an FTF file becomes available, could you then flash it with flashtool on a stock ICS locked bootloader?
Judging by past firmware updates, it's taken 2/3 months for Orange to push an update.

Yes, or you could flash the 303 generic UK and ota to current. You'll then get jelly when Sony says not ee.
Sent from my LT30p using xda app-developers app

SWFlyerUK said:
Just out of interest, when an FTF file becomes available, could you then flash it with flashtool on a stock ICS locked bootloader?
Judging by past firmware updates, it's taken 2/3 months for Orange to push an update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No u cant With locked bootloader flashtool cant do anything. Im also with locked T from Orange so I just hope they will do the job a bit faster
Maybe someone will finelly crack it :-/

kingstonxl said:
No u cant With locked bootloader flashtool cant do anything. Im also with locked T from Orange so I just hope they will do the job a bit faster
Maybe someone will finelly crack it :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or grow a pair and unlock your bootloader like a real XDA member.

kingstonxl said:
With locked bootloader flashtool cant do anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder how I flashed my V with its locked bootloader to Xperia VL's firmware using Flashtool, then.
All you need is matching signatures, and all similar models share them.

Yes good news

kingstonxl said:
No u cant With locked bootloader flashtool cant do anything. Im also with locked T from Orange so I just hope they will do the job a bit faster
Maybe someone will finelly crack it :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but you've got that wrong, you can use flashtool to flash an official ftf onto a phone with a locked bootloader, I've done it loads of times with my xperia's. In essence if your locked to a network orange, t-mobile ect then you can get the region generic ftf and flash it with flashtool to debrand your phone
What you can't do is flash custom ROMs which require a custom kernel.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks for the responses guys, I thought it would be possible, the only reason I ask is that I've flashed ICS firmwares to the T in the past, but wasn't sure with it being a different version of the OS.

Odp: Xperia T/TX/TL firmware 9.1.A.0.489 certified
del1701 said:
Sorry but you've got that wrong, you can use flashtool to flash an official ftf onto a phone with a locked bootloader, I've done it loads of times with my xperia's. In essence if your locked to a network orange, t-mobile ect then you can get the region generic ftf and flash it with flashtool to debrand your phone
What you can't do is flash custom ROMs which require a custom kernel.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fastboot doesn't work on locked bootloader.
Sent from my LT30p using xda app-developers app

kingstonxl said:
Fastboot doesn't work on locked bootloader.
Sent from my LT30p using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please read before continuing to facepalm yourself.
Flashtool does not require your bootloader to be unlocked. It also does not even you require your phone ot be rooted.
Flashtool can be used on any xperia phone regardless. It does not require fastboot

Odp: Xperia T/TX/TL firmware 9.1.A.0.489 certified
gregbradley said:
Please read before continuing to facepalm yourself.
Flashtool does not require your bootloader to be unlocked. It also does not even you require your phone ot be rooted.
Flashtool can be used on any xperia phone regardless. It does not require fastboot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh u r so smart wish I would.
Sent from my LT30p using xda app-developers app

kingstonxl said:
Fastboot doesn't work on locked bootloader.
Sent from my LT30p using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what does fastboot have to do with flashtool?
The original question was "Can an ftf be flashed with flashtool onto a phone with a locked bootloader" and the answer is yes.
Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2

kingstonxl said:
No u cant With locked bootloader flashtool cant do anything. Im also with locked T from Orange so I just hope they will do the job a bit faster
Maybe someone will finelly crack it :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kingstonxl said:
Fastboot doesn't work on locked bootloader.
Sent from my LT30p using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kingstonxl said:
Oh u r so smart wish I would.
Sent from my LT30p using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, without wishng to flame the situation I also wish you would because what you have said is garbage and incorrect. And its not like its anything technical, its the basics.....

travis82 said:
Or grow a pair and unlock your bootloader like a real XDA member.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait...we have a bootloader unlock for TL on ATT?

So this is 4.1? I got the update in sony bridge, but updating means I lose my root right? (locked bootloader)

Yes when you update to different firmware you will lost the root privilege
Sent from my LT25i using xda premium

soncarl said:
Yes when you update to different firmware you will lost the root privilege
Sent from my LT25i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not always, there are ways around it. But in general yes.
Once the new firmware hits users with locked bootloaders we will see if we lose root, but then we will also find a way to root the newfirmware or find a way to update that does not lose root.

[Q] Whick ROM version is the right one for me? (STOCK)

Hello,
I want to go back to how the phone was out of the box. I now have installed UK branded .423 4.1.2 JB rom. I cant find the 4.2.2 update on either Pc companion or my phone. So what i am wondering about is : How can i now for sure which version is the "right" one for me? I live in norway,but i havent found any STOCK roms who says Norway or my carrier Telenor.
Could on of you please link to the right version that i need? TFT.
And do i have to do a full wipe from the rom i know have installed when i am installing the new one?
cause then i dont bother setting up my phone until i have fixed.
Much appriated, thank you ,

I have found this site. http://ipsmart.blogspot.no/2013/06/firmware-all-sony-xperia-2013-official.html
Which firmware is the right one for Norway?

See the stickys.
...Sent from Zed

HypnOtizer12 said:
Hello,
I want to go back to how the phone was out of the box. I now have installed UK branded .423 4.1.2 JB rom. I cant find the 4.2.2 update on either Pc companion or my phone. So what i am wondering about is : How can i now for sure which version is the "right" one for me? I live in norway,but i havent found any STOCK roms who says Norway or my carrier Telenor.
Could on of you please link to the right version that i need? TFT.
And do i have to do a full wipe from the rom i know have installed when i am installing the new one?
cause then i dont bother setting up my phone until i have fixed.
Much appriated, thank you ,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the .423 firmware you're talking abut is 4.2.2..just check it out once again....and nope,u needn't wipe any data...and all firmwares work with most of the carriers unless ur phone is carrier locked,if u want to flash any FTF's,make sure it is for ur device (C6603,etc) to avoid any issues..anyways have fun!
Hit thanks if I helped you.Sent from my Killer Xperia Z(C6602) using xda premium.

Well there is many firmwares to choose between. I Wat the stock for Norway/Telenor. Since this rom i have now havent even got the 4.2.2. Anybody
have the link?
Thanks

dude, take a look at this thread. You can find latest firmware number of Norway/Telenor in the list. But no idea where to download the real ftf. Good luck.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=42359612
Sent from my C6603 using xda app-developers app

niuniuaba said:
dude, take a look at this thread. You can find latest firmware number of Norway/Telenor in the list. But no idea where to download the real ftf. Good luck.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=42359612
Sent from my C6603 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, i know, but i dont know where to download it from. I need help quick cause the ROM i have now doesent allow me to use mobile network ..

Nobody knows? i need to fix my phone soon

HypnOtizer12 said:
Yeah, i know, but i dont know where to download it from. I need help quick cause the ROM i have now doesent allow me to use mobile network ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you download internet and mms settings?
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium

joejoe23 said:
Have you download internet and mms settings?
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i have.

Is there nobody who can help me here?

On ur box side sticker it displays tthe region code and soft version it was shipped with. Compare the firmware thread and u have ur stock soft bersion and number.
Sent from my C6602 using xda premium

ahassouna said:
On ur box side sticker it displays tthe region code and soft version it was shipped with. Compare the firmware thread and u have ur stock soft bersion and number.
Sent from my C6602 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My version is " SI 1270-7122.4 NO (NORWAY). I still havent found any download link to this particular firmware.

Smurflin96 said:
My version is " SI 1270-7122.4 NO (NORWAY). I still havent found any download link to this particular firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try a bit of googling if u can find the ftf file (older version) but if u are looking foe the new update it might not be yet released for ur current region/version
Sent from my C6602 using xda premium

ahassouna said:
Try a bit of googling if u can find the ftf file (older version) but if u are looking foe the new update it might not be yet released for ur current region/version
Sent from my C6602 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tried to find it, but without luck. In my country they have updated to 4.2.2.

[Q] 4.2.2 on T-Mobile?

I've just picked up the t-mobile version of this phone tonight, and it's on 4.1 right now. Everything I've read said there was an update for 4.2.2 , but the phone system says it's up to date. I'd actually prefer 4.1 for now because of bluetooth issues i think, but I'm just wondering if the t-mobile version will have to wait to be updated, making it much longer than the international versions? I didn't plan on rooting for a few weeks, but if there's already a 4.3 rom out there, i may have to do that a little quicker.

Yeah we don't know how long it will be to get the update it doesn't exist yet,but you can flash any firmware on it using the flashtool, just read up alto,for me it's been so diff than HTC like you don't flash it in recovery and you don't have to be rooted first,couple weird things
Sent from my C6606 using xda premium

Jonathan2677 said:
Yeah we don't know how long it will be to get the update it doesn't exist yet,but you can flash any firmware on it using the flashtool, just read up alto,for me it's been so diff than HTC like you don't flash it in recovery and you don't have to be rooted first,couple weird things
Sent from my C6606 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I just came from a t989 Galaxy SII, and for that it had to be rooted, but only took a few steps. I'll have to read all of the stickies and figure out how to work everything.

Hail2theskins said:
Thanks, I just came from a t989 Galaxy SII, and for that it had to be rooted, but only took a few steps. I'll have to read all of the stickies and figure out how to work everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes u can flash a C6603 or C6602 ftf just without being rooted and u can actually root 4.2.2 every easy.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I sent you a message bro
Sent from my C6606 using xda app-developers app

wait, so I'm confused, with the t-mobile xperia z, the bootloader can't be unlocked? if that is the case, then how can root even be possible?
Also, do the roms for the international version work on the t-mobile version (Such as parinoid android and cyanogenmod)
If that is the case, then what does the locked bootloader stop?
So I guess my question is, do roms designed for the international xperia z work on the t-mobile version. Like, do we get official cyanogenmod support?
I'm curious, because this might be my next phone (Debating between this and the nexus 4)
I'm currently using the htc vivid

Would any of these update methods erase the stuff that came with the phone? (Not that I want all of the apps, but some of them, I like)...

TracerBullitt said:
Would any of these update methods erase the stuff that came with the phone? (Not that I want all of the apps, but some of them, I like)...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting, no. Flashing other firmware, yes.

Avidgamer said:
wait, so I'm confused, with the t-mobile xperia z, the bootloader can't be unlocked? if that is the case, then how can root even be possible?
Also, do the roms for the international version work on the t-mobile version (Such as parinoid android and cyanogenmod)
If that is the case, then what does the locked bootloader stop?
So I guess my question is, do roms designed for the international xperia z work on the t-mobile version. Like, do we get official cyanogenmod support?
I'm curious, because this might be my next phone (Debating between this and the nexus 4)
I'm currently using the htc vivid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With a locked bootloader you can root,have custom recovery and flash stock firmware and roms based off stock,so when in forums you'll see in the thread titles they will tell u lb or ub or both just only stuff based off stock but there's quit a few
Sent from my C6606 using xda premium
---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------
Avidgamer said:
wait, so I'm confused, with the t-mobile xperia z, the bootloader can't be unlocked? if that is the case, then how can root even be possible?
Also, do the roms for the international version work on the t-mobile version (Such as parinoid android and cyanogenmod)
If that is the case, then what does the locked bootloader stop?
So I guess my question is, do roms designed for the international xperia z work on the t-mobile version. Like, do we get official cyanogenmod support?
I'm curious, because this might be my next phone (Debating between this and the nexus 4)
I'm currently using the htc vivid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also correct the bootloader on the t-mobile 6606 cannot be unlocked now or never
Sent from my C6606 using xda premium

So I'm downloading the flashtool right now, but it's going to take a while longer. By flashing the 4.2.2 stock rom (which one is that btw?), will I get the ability to have a mobile hotspot again? That's the only thing I'm looking to get at the moment. Also, will I have to flash new modems or kernels or anything else? Is there a really easy youtube video that shows how to do everything from start to finish on adding a stock rom?

Hail2theskins said:
So I'm downloading the flashtool right now, but it's going to take a while longer. By flashing the 4.2.2 stock rom (which one is that btw?), will I get the ability to have a mobile hotspot again? That's the only thing I'm looking to get at the moment. Also, will I have to flash new modems or kernels or anything else? Is there a really easy youtube video that shows how to do everything from start to finish on adding a stock rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U should because the international version don't have the mobile Hotspot locked. U most likely gonna lose tmobile wifi calling.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

dante501 said:
U should because the international version don't have the mobile Hotspot locked. U most likely gonna lose tmobile wifi calling.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I'm not worried about Wi-Fi calling, I'm on the thirty dollar plan with only a hundred minutes, I rarely talk on the phone. Am I correct in understanding since we have a locked boot loader, we can't install custom rooms like Aokp or CM?

Hail2theskins said:
Thanks, I'm not worried about Wi-Fi calling, I'm on the thirty dollar plan with only a hundred minutes, I rarely talk on the phone. Am I correct in understanding since we have a locked boot loader, we can't install custom rooms like Aokp or CM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct but u still can root and flash ftf and also install a double recovery. U basically can do everything besides costum Roms. But after u flash a international ftf u should also be able to unlock the bootloader. But I don't gonna be 100 % sure.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Yeah, I flash a international 4.2 rom but I still don't think it is or ever will be bootloader unlock able, please someone correct me, i hope I'm wrong but don't think it's possible
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Jonathan2677 said:
Yeah, I flash a international 4.2 rom but I still don't think it is or ever will be bootloader unlock able, please someone correct me, i hope I'm wrong but don't think it's possible
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well does it say it is able to be unlocked? And if unlock the boatloader u lose bravia engine 2 what makes a difference when watching movies pictures and such on the phone.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Jonathan2677 said:
Yeah, I flash a international 4.2 rom but I still don't think it is or ever will be bootloader unlock able, please someone correct me, i hope I'm wrong but don't think it's possible
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since you seem to have the t-mobile version and are in the US, do you know if you flash a 6602 stock rom, does US T-mobile LTE still work? I've read so many different answers and they are ALL over the place on this board, so I'm not sure what way to go. The only US labeled rom I found is for a 6602, but some people have stated you need 6603 for LTE, others say both work.

Hail2theskins said:
Since you seem to have the t-mobile version and are in the US, do you know if you flash a 6602 stock rom, does US T-mobile LTE still work? I've read so many different answers and they are ALL over the place on this board, so I'm not sure what way to go. The only US labeled rom I found is for a 6602, but some people have stated you need 6603 for LTE, others say both work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You canuse either and get lte I used a 6603 unbranded Australia it don't have to be us,someone said Spain is a good one also,but let will work regardless but if u want 4g quick toggles use 6603 any questions pm me
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium

im running the unbranded us 4.2.2 firmware on tmobile xz and i still get lte speed. im pretty sure lte is a hardware thing not software so you shouldnt lose it

skinsfanbdh said:
im running the unbranded us 4.2.2 firmware on tmobile xz and i still get lte speed. im pretty sure lte is a hardware thing not software so you shouldnt lose it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed did u have a notification saying all steps completed if so we're u able to get rid of it
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium

Jonathan2677 said:
Agreed did u have a notification saying all steps completed if so we're u able to get rid of it
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im not sure what you mean about all steps completed

some help for a newbie?

Iv just got rid of my old motorola atrix and got my hands on a new xperia Z and so far im loving it, although my atrix was bootloader unlocked and had a custom rom so i would like this 9on my sony xperia z! i am familiar with CWM and flashing roms but its been that long i cannot remember how to root, unlock and put custom roms onto a device
My xperia Z is an english version and locked too 02 network!
would anyone be able to send me a few links to guides in the order i need too do things to be able too start flashing custom roms/mods to my device?
thanks!

Pixelguy said:
Iv just got rid of my old motorola atrix and got my hands on a new xperia Z and so far im loving it, although my atrix was bootloader unlocked and had a custom rom so i would like this 9on my sony xperia z! i am familiar with CWM and flashing roms but its been that long i cannot remember how to root, unlock and put custom roms onto a device
My xperia Z is an english version and locked too 02 network!
would anyone be able to send me a few links to guides in the order i need too do things to be able too start flashing custom roms/mods to my device?
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you tell me the model u have 6602,6603,6606 and what 4.1,4.2 plus which firmware,rooting is so easy just find the doomlord method but you need to give a little more info plus read through the forums and search a little not saying u are but seems lazy to ask us to do all the work for you
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium

This will refresh your memory about everything you need to know.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2275632
Sent from my Full Android on C6603 using xda premium

Pixelguy said:
My xperia Z is an english version and locked too 02 network!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can SIM Unlock O2 Phones for free! Just go HERE, fill in your info, wait a day or two, input code, done.
gm007 said:
This will refresh your memory about everything you need to know.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2275632
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.

My xperia Z is an english version and locked too 02 network!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually a carrier locked xperia has a permanent locked bootloader. Don't be surprised if you can't unlock it.
Just a heads up before you do too much research.

thanks guys!

one last bit of help?
Iv rooted my device and installed CMW
BUT
it says my bootloader is not allowed to be unlocked...
can i install custom roms using the locked cmw or do i have to stay with stock roms?

Pixelguy said:
Iv rooted my device and installed CMW
BUT
it says my bootloader is not allowed to be unlocked...
can i install custom roms using the locked cmw or do i have to stay with stock roms?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock roms only for locked bootloader in the titles it will tell you I it's for lb
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium

Jonathan2677 said:
Stock roms only for locked bootloader in the titles it will tell you I it's for lb
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
okay thank you :good:

Pixelguy said:
okay thank you :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I isn't really a issue if u can unlock it or not. Mine can be unlocked but I never did because u lose bravia engine 2 if u unlock the bootloader.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

dante501 said:
I isn't really a issue if u can unlock it or not. Mine can be unlocked but I never did because u lose bravia engine 2 if u unlock the bootloader.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is an issue if you want those highly customisable roms such as cm,pac etc. I rather lose be2 than not having the chance to flash those. But now there's a way to save your ta before unlocking bootloader so it's all good for those who want to unlock bootloader and still keep be2 for future use.
Sent from my C6603

joejoe23 said:
It is an issue if you want those highly customisable roms such as cm,pac etc. I rather lose be2 than not having the chance to flash those. But now there's a way to save your ta before unlocking bootloader so it's all good for those who want to unlock bootloader and still keep be2 for future use.
Sent from my C6603
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand but CM is always broken and has bugs on every phone. I don't even know why the roms from CM are so loved. It is most of the time a bug fest. Lol
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

dante501 said:
I understand but CM is always broken and has bugs on every phone. I don't even know why the roms from CM are so loved. It is most of the time a bug fest. Lol
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah honestly I always prefer stock roms so not to loose all good functions for example on my HTC one all I run is vipor Rom which is sense based otherwise I'd loose zoe,ir blaster and every other thing that makes the one what it is
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium

Jonathan2677 said:
Yeah honestly I always prefer stock roms so not to loose all good functions for example on my HTC one all I run is vipor Rom which is sense based otherwise I'd loose zoe,ir blaster and every other thing that makes the one what it is
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah viper rom was always great in htc phones. I know not it since htc sensation. CM always seemed broken. Always something isn't working what works on other roms. I always wondered why CM always seems to have issues with things.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

C6903 and C6902

Hi guys am in Thailand and I decide to buy z1 but in Thailand has a model c6902 so I wanna know I can flash ROM for C6903 on C6902? Thx guys for the help and sorry for ma bad english
Sent from my R800i using xda app-developers app

any help?

DamBadz said:
any help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
C6903 ROMs are NOT usable with the C6902.
You need to get a ROM specific for the C6902.

krispijn_s said:
C6903 ROMs are NOT usable with the C6902.
You need to get a ROM specific for the C6902.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really so if i wanna use custom rom in the future i have to use only rom for c6902 ?

DamBadz said:
really so if i wanna use custom rom in the future i have to use only rom for c6902 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
(There are small differences in radio hardware between the C6902 and the C6903, which is why the software is not exchangable)

krispijn_s said:
Yes.
(There are small differences in radio hardware between the C6902 and the C6903, which is why the software is not exchangable)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just one more question i saw some people in xz forum flash 4g rom on their phone and it work http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2190948

DamBadz said:
just one more question i saw some people in xz forum flash 4g rom on their phone and it work http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2190948
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not familiar with the differences between the XZ models (I'm on a Sammy GS2 atm). But the fact that crossflashing works for the XZ, doesn't mean it will work for the XZ1; for example, I can't flash i9100g ROMs on my GS2, because even though they are the same model, the internals are different (though the GS2 example is an extreme case).
Of course you are free to try crossflashing the C6902/C6903. Perhaps you won't break much, but you'll probably won't have a working radio (in other words: no calls, no texts, no data). Or you might brick the device entirely.
Personally, with such an expensive device as the XZ1, I wouldn't risk it and stick to C6902 ROMs until we (=the community) know more about the devices.