Database Develop

State of the Forum/Newbies

Okay, this post is really intended as a comment and I am not going to pretend I have THE answer but I do have some suggestions to spark discussion.
Based on a lot of the recent comments and back and forth about newbies/tech support I think that the forum is trending the same way I have seen MANY other forums go. What happens is simple; a group of first adopters, who are by default, technically capable, get together on a forum and start to fill in the gaps in tech support, especially when it comes to 'modded' soft or hardwre. They spend a while helping each other out and a comfort level develops. Members know where to go, and when to ask questions.
Then what happens is that the hardware becomes much more popular. All of a sudden your average Joe can walk out a Cingular store with a 8125 for a couple hundred bucks. These folks are NOT early adopters. They are not necessarily tech savvy. They are the people that are most prone to 'keyboard to chair interface errors'. Since the early members did such a good job raising the profile of the forum it starts to come up every time someone does a Google search. and they all end up over their heads.
So then the folks that have been around for a while start to get frustrated. Why should they provide tech support? Why can't these newbies read? Why should they even try to help if they get barraged by stupid questions?
Well I think that takes us to where we are now, so the question is what do we do now? In my experience the only solution that I have seen is to have people equally dedicated to wiki and sticky writing as they are to writing ROMs and programs. The truth is that if you release something you WILL become tech support and a large part of tech support is writing documentation and then explaining it to others.
I have intended this post as something helpful and to spark discussion, not as a criticism of anyone in particular or any particular group. Hopefully it will be taken as such

I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V

As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?

d0ug said:
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
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I agree with you d0ug! It is rather confusing to navigate and find your way. Especially when you are a n00b, such as myself. I have been trying to mod my phone for 3 days now. I have tried many ways of unlocking my G3, but none of them have worked. I have listened to 3 different people tell me their "way" of unlocking the phone, and all 3 attempts failed in the end. I get flamed for not reading posts or searching, when i did, just nothing relevant popped up! This is not a whine fest, just saying that some people dont have phones that were built on a Wednesday, like mine that was probably built on a Monday and has issues!
Either way, i called Cingular and they are shipping me a brand new 8125 to test things out on!
Canon

Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents

vijay555 said:
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
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Vijay, very happy to see that the mods are looking at this. I agree that Wiki's have their limitations especially given the validity of some of the comments about conflicting advice.
The search function definitely does have its limits as well, and people are less likely to go through searches that produce a 100 threads with 5 pages each.
I for one would feel a lot better about telling someone harshly to stop answering questions if I knew that I could also direct them to a single place for answers.

I really love this forum and it has helped me so much. I don't post much except to say "thank you" from time to time to the people who have made some program that has been helpful to me. And although I have been coming to this board every day for over a year I still don't know half as much as the majority of people here.
Some solutions to this problem are:
1) get frustrated and write a mean message to the noob
2) take a minute and just give the link to the page where the answer is
3) make it easier on this forum to find things

_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)

vseehua said:
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
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I would like to see a thread dedicated to G4 devices, with verified correct information in it.
It isnt just people asking the same questions over and over making the search junk. Its the inability to even search for simple short 3 letter acronyms like CID, IPL, SPL, AKU. These are all things I have tried to search for and get 0 results. If I were able to search for these terms I could probably turn up a wealth of information on my own.

_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That would work me thinks!!!!!

Hi all,
I've been reading this forum for weeks now and still have not found enough answers to be secure enough and cid-unlock my G3 2.21 vario.
I HAVE indeed read most relevant threads, although navigating them can be somewhat confusing. However When I posted some -in my n00b opinion - valid questions I either got 1) no reply whatsoever 2) replies to read "the" threads....which wasn't really helpfull or I wouldn't have asked 3) contradicting advice .... like a 2.21 G3 Can be unlocked, or it Cannot be unlocked, you have to downgrade twice, you have to upgrade twice, you Can or Cannot flash a G4 rom to a G3 device so you won't have to downgrade and CID unlock your phone first, etc.
I believe that I am somewhat beyond the real n00b level right now but still I'd like information to be more consistent and easier to find, I've already tried to suggest making a stickied n00b FAQ or wiki for us where to find the basic answers in a easy and consistent manner so the sdame questions aren't asked over and over and ROM threads hijacked for support questions.
but that is just my cup of tea.
thanks for a good forum with vlauable info.
stefan.

Regular search
Personally, I find using google or yahoo, with site:xda-developers.com, works much better than the forum search. My personal pet peeve is the inability to use quotes to search for phrases. Quotes don't work.
A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out and ask them to submit a wiki for something they just learned. If we had a submission point for the wiki, perhaps those of us who recently learned new things would do a how-to write-up and submit it to the wiki.
Finally, there are a lot of repeat threads, many with false or useless information. These threads stand in the way of a searcher. I would be happier if the moderators deleted more bad threads. Alternatively, we could use democracy -- add a "vote to delete" button to every thread not posted by a moderator and if a high enough percentage vote to delete, the thread is gone. I'd suggest 20% as a threshold -- more than that and the thread goes away.

Have been reading all your comments and completely agree with you guys... I see you have specific problems on G3/G4 on Wizards, as someone suggested a separate subforum for G4 devices would be ideal for you, and also for Prophet I guess.
About the search functions I'm also using google to search as a fallback when I can't find specific things using vBulletin's integrated search function, there's a thread on the mod forum where we discussed how to improve it, but seems is not very active now... will try to push Flar to do something about that.
Regarding the wiki, I think everyone should be less afraid to edit, if you look at the "recent changes" you see always the same people is editing. Have a look at the Hermes or BlueAngel wiki pages, these are good examples on how info has to be organized on the wiki, it's easy to find everything on the front page and information is well divided. Formating may seem a bit complicated at the beginning, but you don't have to care too much if you just want to add content, sure someone more experienced with wiki syntax will edit and correct any bad formating mistakes.

I do 100% agree with you that the wiki itself doesn't cover half of what it should. Yet if you take the time to read through it, and the links, you should be quite familiar with your device...
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
So, unfortunatly this is going to continue unless you put constraints on the board... I'm sorry, but that's what's gonna happen.

Seems to me that since this was posted the situation has sorta escalated... Faria, Molski, risidoro and just now Dr P has announced their leave.
In this rate all that'll be left will be the newbies soon. Sad to witness

_Nomad_ said:
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
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It's also very human.
_Nomad_ said:
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
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There just should be enough moderators. Now what happens when you write something stupid is you also get useless answers like "don't do that" which just makes everything even worse. There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
Two main things to handle this (just my opinion):
Re-designed forum structure
Moderators
(well, the structure should be designed in the first place so that it would be easy to extend it later...not an easy job)

prestonmcafee said:
...A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out...
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I usually suggest to those asking questions to post the solution to their question in the first post. But I'm over at the Mio forums, and since we only have 4500 peps, the mods aren't overwhelmed. I can lock a thread, post the correct thread to post in, and a few days later, delete the thread. I spend 1/2 my time using the search function to consolidate questions into single threads. But like I said, that's not feasible here. I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason

mlehtola said:
There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
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Ummm, have you ever taken the time to look at the Wiki?
This forum is being provided to us basically for free. (Except for voluntary donations.) I personally can't afford to donate $$$ to the community, or for that matter to individual developers, so I dedicate some time to post in the forums to share what I've learned. I have also donated time to updating the Wiki.
If the Wiki doesn't contain all you would like it to, just add it yourself! One brief tutorial could make a world of difference to a newbie, or even a more experienced user. It also helps to point out gaps in the general knowledge we have here in these forums.
If, for example, there isn't a sub-forum for the device you use, you don't have to wait for the moderators, etc. to create it. Just create a Wiki page, and get the ball rolling on your own!
Take the initiative! That's what these forums were founded on!
Just my opinion.
Now go have fun!

JKR said:
I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
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First of all, you get much better, and more detailed search results by using a search-engine like Google. Their advanced search features do a fantastic job, and can be fine tuned to search only through a specific site. (i.e. http://forum.xdadevelopers.com )
Secondly, as opposed to a PM, possibly an email with a confirmation link after the introductory information.
Hope this helps....
Now go have fun!

I think it is more synonymous of the world today, do you read the manual when you buy a new stereo or mobile phone, or do you dig in saying 'nah i know how it works it'll be ok'. People just dont take the time to understand first, they think they know it all and then the proverbial hits the fan! As an experienced R&D firmware developer it doesn't matter how easy I make the interface you will always get those that stuff it up!
So not such an easy one to fix, you have given the masses a place to ask the ridiculous and the tools to stuff up easily, How do you fix that?
Riptos

People requesting ROM advice

As a member for some time, I have seen many people post looking for advice on which ROM might best suit their needs.
Typically the response is anything from a small flame to a raging inferno. The most common response from the learned people here is for the OP to "try them all."
Well, I am finally fed up with those lame and rude responses. You see, there is absolutely nothing wrong with soliciting advice from those who have tried things and ergo have more knowledge and experience. That is why "user reviews" are so important. Think about it, have you ever asked a salesman about a product or do you just try them all? Do you eat everything on a menu, or do you ask the waiter what's good... what would best meet your needs? If you are a normal person, you ask if you have questions!
Also, there is much made about creating different threads asking for the proper advice. Well, the very nature of the request requires a new thread. Each OP might have a different set of preferences that are unique. To use the waiter example: "I don't like salty and greasy foods. I do however like light foods. What would you recommend?" You see how asking for advice has a certain individual and unique set of components?
Some people have told the OP to search and read up on all the ROMs. Well, unless your Einstein or have made ROMS your passion, no sane human can even begin to digest all the information. Some ROMS have hundreds of pages in their thread. One ROM might be a novel to itself. Some people simply don't have 40 hours to read up. Worse yet, those who do have the time, won't have a clue as to which ones to invest it in. Seriously, there are a LOT of ROMs.... with new ones being released almost daily. Unless you live here, you cannot learn about them all.
I think a fair solution would be for the fine people here to focus a bit more on creating a sticky thread of User reviews. However, it has be quite organized and kept current. There is nothing worse than sifting through a couple dozen pages in one ROM thread just to find out the bugs never were addressed in that release, rather the author issued a new separate release.
In conclusion, I think that until ROMs have a better system for Peer Review, which can be easily understood by visitors, people should lay off those seeking advice. Actually, people should be more than willing to be of help and not be so quick to blow the OP off. As for the ROM reviews, I suggest a new sub-forum for just that. It would go a long way to servicing all parties; those who seek advice, those who don't want to see it in these sub-forums, and those who want to help by giving reviews.
Well that is that.

Nice words and I partly applaud, however, you also have to see the other side. Let me reply by copying a user complain and the mod's reply out of his guest comment:
ashleyhall said:
Can I just comment that closing this thread...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443839
...is simply ridiculous. As the owner/moderator of a large internet forum myself, my moderators and I actively encourage discussion and the airing of personal views - if someone asks an opinion, you expect responses based on personal opinion, otherwise what is the point of a forum?!!?
Absolutely ridiculous, bad moderation, pathetic infact, very disappointed...
Regards, Ashley Hall
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JimmyMcGee said:
Ashley,
Thank you for your opinion. The Guidelines for the Kaiser Section were not invented by me solely and for no reason.
The reasons most Kaiser Mods discourage this type of thread, is these threads not only can create hard feelings between chefs but has been known to lead to all out flame wars
If you want to know peoples personal opinions on ROM, you are more than welcome to ask these questions in the ROM thread.
Also, the Kaiser forum is very active and placing peoples opinions of ROMs in the ROM Thread, where the chef can see and respond to such opinions, is more helpful to the community at large.
This guideline was not created to stop person opinions and speech. But to lead to a better organized Forum Section.
Thanks,
Jimmy McGee
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As you see, it is not always easy to justify a thread, especially not if you're talking about a forum with the size of XDA Developers. If people think they want a review of the particular ROM, why not asking directly in the THREAD of that ROM?

"If people think they want a review of the particular ROM, why not asking directly in the THREAD of that ROM"
That only works if you want a review from a SINGLE ROM.
If chefs have that fragile of an ego....

jimlivingston said:
... If chefs have that fragile of an ego....
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As you now can see for yourself, this is where flaming begins - exactly the reason why threads like that are mostly not welcome!

I definitely think there's room for a single, stickied "ROM discussion" thread. People always have opinions, and it'd give people a place to vent them. The reason there's so many clutter-y "WHAT ROM?!" threads is because there's nowhere to ask that question, and new users have no real reason to understand how repetitive that question IS because all the threads get closed and deleted.
Simply telling them "you can't ask that!" makes it awfully tricky for new users, since they often don't even know WHAT they're looking for. By keeping a "ROM discussion" thread around, they might be able to at least get an idea of what people like about different ROMs. Heck, even if the place turns in to a pit of snarky vipers, it'll at least serve as an example of why people don't like ROM comparison threads!
The problems with just directing people to the ROM threads are thus:
1. Most ROM threads consist largely of bug reports or feature requests from long outdated versions of the ROM, so the information isn't really relevant.
2. Some (not all!) chefs are better at creating their ROMs than they are at describing them -- making it awfully hard to get an idea of what the author was "going for."
3. This makes it even LESS likely that some of the small, less popular ROMs will get noticed because the most popular, most updated threads are the ones that get bumped onto the first few pages.
4. ROM threads generally do not (and should not) contain information comparing different ROMs. This is, however, useful information -- if there's two ROMs claiming to be the "fastest and lightest," for example, users should be able to make their observations about those claims.
There's ALWAYS going to be a chance of getting people's hackles up and of some folks getting defensive of upset. At the same time, there's MORE chance for some chefs to get appreciation for what they've done, there will be a better starting point for folks new to this whole ROM business, and I think there's even a chance that the ROMs themselves will be improved because chefs might be able to keep their eyes on the rest of the "scene" better.

My 5 cents as a veteran noob.
First of all: This site is free to use. Lets keep it that way, by accepting the rules.
I think we have to realize, that this is not a service organization. This site is created by developers for developers.
Yes, it would be nice, if we could get answers quickly, but that is not the purpose of this site. Help - About: XDA
If you want to make this site a better place, Go Here!
A review-thread might be a great idea, but nothing is keeping you from creating another site for this!
So, you want a brand new ROM doing this, and this and that!
Well, so did I. And by trying different ROMs, I now realize, there are no shortcuts.
No matter how cool a ROM looks, there is always one thing about it you don't like.
One example: The new Manilla 3D looks incredible cool. Even if it is slow, I might still be using it, if it wasn't for one little thing that I just can't live with; The 3D "People" tab is very cool, but it is a pain to scroll through one contact at a time. I find the 2D version so much better.
You just have to try for yourself, what works for you and what don't.
Bottom line: To get the ROM that makes you most happy, you've got to make flashing your phone a hobby.
Read the stickies. Start flashing. Stay cool.
Happy hunting

I know this thread is closed, But I wanted to add to the statement of mine that was quoted earlier in this thread.
If you are going to get an objective Comparison or "Reviewed ROMs Thread" That would mean the reviewer would need to be unbiased. In order to do so they would have to flash EVERY version of EVERY ROM that was released. A difficult proposition at best.
I, like most people, will try a few and then Stick with one I find I like. There might be a better one that I haven't tried yet. But that's the fun of this Forum.
There was at one point a ROM Reviews thread. That thread was never closed. As it gave unbiased comparisons between ROMs. Something Impossible to get from just creating a thread saying "What's the Best?" Well ultimatly, "BEST" depends on your tastes.
The ROM review thread gave The features and bugs of a ROM and gave you a pretty clear pictures of the difference between the ROMs, All with the same "spin" from the same guy. By having the same "spin" from the same guy, you can grasp better which ROM is right for you. The effect of Me telling you what I like best and Junner Telling you their favorite is it has different "spin." Also, I may not have tried the ROM Junner recommended.
In the END the ROM Reviews thread died, because it was alot of work. And I believe we have even more ROMs available now!
So you can see why Best of ROM threads serve no purpose then to take up space. With the vast size of XDA's membership, you're not going to get a lot of worth out of a few vocal Fans of a certain chef's offerings.

Any Resources For Getting Started With Modding

I'm aware that I should probably post this is the Dev area, but I'm not a Dev yet lol and don't want to clutter up their precious 'new release' space with what I consider a n00b question.
However, I'm a budding software developer who was very interested in developing apps for android - all of my ideas have been taken up by people and though I contribute a little towards those with suggestions I would like to jump in at the deep end instead.
So i figure, why not start a thread with links to relevant places to learn how to mod the Android OS - whichever version. Not like the dev section where its pretty hardcore, but introductory links:
Everything from removing / adding bits and pieces to an established custom / stock rom, to compiling your own kernel and porting versions could be covered.
It might also offer an incentive to the best devs on the android asteroid to continue knocking out tutorials even after they've moved on to newer versions?
Anyway, just an idea, what do you guys think? Personally at the moment I'm trawling through craploads of official docs trying to get a handle on where to start!

What your looking for is the stickies. They are at the top of each forum subsection. Happy reading. Props on putting it in q&a section though.

doofah said:
I'm aware that I should probably post this is the Dev area, but I'm not a Dev yet lol and don't want to clutter up their precious 'new release' space with what I consider a n00b question.
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DING DING DING! We have a winner! You sir, deserve a trophy for actually thinking!
Check out the "getting ADB up and running thread" It will point you to the android sdk and on that page you can download eclipse. Those should help you get on your way.

Resources for moddingo
Lol... Yay!! My brain was a worthwhile investment, must remember to send a letter of recommendation to my supplier!
Thanks guys I'll keep digging
My poor G1 is in for a ROUGH ride over the next few months I fear... maybe I should save for another just to be safe lol

There are several other threads that cover this. Search for those and they have links and documents relating to this.
You'll have to have knowledge on linux, java, c++, and someother stuff.

Rom reviews

Hello all Chefs and Rom users, I wanted to know how would you like if someone started a thread or site where they do in depth reviews on roms,chefs,and apps for htc phones? Would you find this useful and would you be willing to post your roms on a site that does this? Would you be interested in paying for adverstisement? Would you like for a donation link to be placed in your review or section on the site? Rom users, how useful do you think this site will be? I am open to all comments and questions. Thank to all in advance.

I think that would be a great idea, especially for the people who arent sure which rom they want or what they want on a rom or the people that are new to this scene. Maybe the site could include a list of things that are included in the roms. Such as does it have the latest .net compact framwork and things like that. Also it could be broken down into which roms would be best for which versions of the rhodium. Like T-mobile, at&t, sprint, verizon. And there could be a rating system letting users rate the roms. Just a few ideas to throw at you.

Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.

ohyeahar said:
Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.
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yeah i second this. The key thing about roms is that they differ in appeal for one person to the next. Most roms these days are nice and fast (certainly faster than stock) and so the additional factors may involve apps included, graphics and other features and although these are listed within the chefs thread as screenshots and lists, you only really know a rom is right for you once its in your hands and personally test-driven!
Agreed, it would be good to have an objective list of features of all current roms and comments of them in one place, however the info is already out there leaving the rest of the work up to the user!

ohyeahar said:
Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.
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I agree... With a UC cable ROM, a PC registry editor (CeRegistry, MobileRegistryEditor) and maybe SDConfig Builder along with PIM Backup I have it automated down to about 10 minutes...

i like it
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea

antdawg702 said:
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea
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I know what you mean. And I understand the intentions of everyone who starts one of these threads. But consider this:
-There are new ROM chefs popping up all the time.
-New releases of ROMs with multiple flavors are literally coming at a daily rate.
Who's going to keep track of all the chefs? Each chef may also release multiple ROMs. Who's going to keep track of all the ROM versions?
It's an impossible task, unless each chef voluntarily goes to a common thread to post about their own work. But frankly, I would rather the chef not waste their time doing that. I would rather them allocate their time to their ROM development.
Probably no one is going to argue that a review thread is a bad idea. It's a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work in practice.

Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc

geejayoh said:
Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc
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Haha, this social networking site you're referring to exists. It's here at this forum! Each ROM thread is a profile. Each chef is registered here and the ROMs are released here. Users are free to review, comment, and make requests in the threads

Not a bad idea
antdawg702 said:
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea
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I am in the same boat I flash roms all the time, and love this forum, It would be nice to have an alternate way to read about rom,chefs,apps,Htc phones,rumors.
Something that goes more in depth.

not a social networking site
geejayoh said:
Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc
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Click to collapse
I am talking about a site,not really a social networking site, because that will just grow too huge and make it hard for some users to be able to get the info they are looking for. I am thinking more like a blog. Where you can search info and find different articles. There would be polls on roms. The rom may be reviewed with general info and people can leave comments. I just think it may be a way to narrow down this info for users to easily get to. Some are intimidated by huge sites. The site will have other info ,but will also lean more towards roms and chefs. The site would benefit rom users and chefs.

cant cover all roms
ohyeahar said:
I know what you mean. And I understand the intentions of everyone who starts one of these threads. But consider this:
-There are new ROM chefs popping up all the time.
-New releases of ROMs with multiple flavors are literally coming at a daily rate.
Who's going to keep track of all the chefs? Each chef may also release multiple ROMs. Who's going to keep track of all the ROM versions?
It's an impossible task, unless each chef voluntarily goes to a common thread to post about their own work. But frankly, I would rather the chef not waste their time doing that. I would rather them allocate their time to their ROM development.
Probably no one is going to argue that a review thread is a bad idea. It's a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work in practice.
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Click to collapse
The site would not cover all roms,but would try to cover major releases and maybe the roms of chefs who want to link there roms to the site.

Thank You
Thank You to all who participated in this poll. Anyone who have not participated yet can still participate. It seems most members would enjoy a site like this one. I have updated my signature with the latest roms I am running. Thank you all!

ohyeahar said:
Haha, this social networking site you're referring to exists. It's here at this forum! Each ROM thread is a profile. Each chef is registered here and the ROMs are released here. Users are free to review, comment, and make requests in the threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reading from 40 to 400+ pages of a thread just to see what the rom is about isn't something I look forward to. I would like it if they were categorized. For example, search filters for all the roms that have sense 2.1 or all the roms that have 2.5, etc. Roms that are made specifically for a carrier would also be a nice filter. I also think a really good idea would be to make a program with the purpose of benchmarking a rom just to try and test the speed of how fast the rom really is. There are many more things that can be done. I think thewingster.com is a great example of this, but it can be taken to another level to make it much easier for users. There are many roms not posted on that site, but the popular ones are there.

I agree with some of the ideas here - sometimes it's just not feasible to wade through hundreds of pages ... For those who come here maybe once a week like me, this would be a good way of getting up to date quickly and maybe some of the n00b questions wouldn't happen as a result? (even I know how to get AT&T keyboard and my country doesn't have AT&T )
Maybe an extension of the current XDA wiki? And promote the wiki a bit more on the front page. The threads as they are in the forums would still serve the same basic purpose - feedback and debate etc.
The obvious question though is "who's gonna do it?" as the information would get outdated fast, and we can't expect the cooks to do it as they do enough already. And the people in the best position to do this (ie. the hardcore guys who come here every day) may not want to.
It's an interesting idea though.

MadBeef said:
I agree with some of the ideas here - sometimes it's just not feasible to wade through hundreds of pages ... For those who come here maybe once a week like me, this would be a good way of getting up to date quickly and maybe some of the n00b questions wouldn't happen as a result? (even I know how to get AT&T keyboard and my country doesn't have AT&T )
Maybe an extension of the current XDA wiki? And promote the wiki a bit more on the front page. The threads as they are in the forums would still serve the same basic purpose - feedback and debate etc.
The obvious question though is "who's gonna do it?" as the information would get outdated fast, and we can't expect the cooks to do it as they do enough already. And the people in the best position to do this (ie. the hardcore guys who come here every day) may not want to.
It's an interesting idea though.
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The site would have to be setup where anyone can add there own review. It takes user input to grow a site.

accent2k2 said:
The site would have to be setup where anyone can add there own review. It takes user input to grow a site.
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Yeah absolutely, but there would have to be at least some form of moderation / approval / cleanup process otherwise you will just get 500 comments that are "HAW DO I GET MY NOKIA TO DO TAHT" or "I BRICKED MY PHOEN COS I DIDNT READ" or "D/Ling NOW KAKAKA!!!!11" etc. (much like some of the threads here) And then a team has to put all this in place, keep the version numbers up-to-date, put screenshots up, etc. A news feed available via RSS would be great Remember that most cooks have at least 4 different ROMs available for each device at a time. (Manila 2.1, 2.5, Titanium, AT&T dialer, WM6.5, WM6.5.1-3 etc)
Right now there must be 20 - 30 different ROMs available just for the TP2. Someone with some level of trust would need to be in charge. To quote an old phrase, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" And it would always have to be up-to-date otherwise there is no point.
Don't get me wrong it would be good to see something like this, it's a great idea. Kinda like what would happen if there was a train wreck involving the wiki and the forum haha but I think you may be underestimating the amount of work it will take.
I've often thought it would be better to have multiple threads per ROM, one for reviews, one for bugs, one for general chat, etc. Maybe even a sub-forum for each cook or each ROM.
I dunno I never said I had the answers Just throwing ideas round

MadBeef said:
Yeah absolutely, but there would have to be at least some form of moderation / approval / cleanup process otherwise you will just get 500 comments that are "HAW DO I GET MY NOKIA TO DO TAHT" or "I BRICKED MY PHOEN COS I DIDNT READ" or "D/Ling NOW KAKAKA!!!!11" etc. (much like some of the threads here) And then a team has to put all this in place, keep the version numbers up-to-date, put screenshots up, etc. A news feed available via RSS would be great Remember that most cooks have at least 4 different ROMs available for each device at a time. (Manila 2.1, 2.5, Titanium, AT&T dialer, WM6.5, WM6.5.1-3 etc)
Right now there must be 20 - 30 different ROMs available just for the TP2. Someone with some level of trust would need to be in charge. To quote an old phrase, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" And it would always have to be up-to-date otherwise there is no point.
Don't get me wrong it would be good to see something like this, it's a great idea. Kinda like what would happen if there was a train wreck involving the wiki and the forum haha but I think you may be underestimating the amount of work it will take.
I've often thought it would be better to have multiple threads per ROM, one for reviews, one for bugs, one for general chat, etc. Maybe even a sub-forum for each cook or each ROM.
I dunno I never said I had the answers Just throwing ideas round
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Makes since thanks

[Q] Diversity of roms/kernels

Hi,
Firstly, I don't want to sound unrespectful to developers. It is just a few complains but I admire the time each one spend for creating new roms. There are lots, lots of roms/kernels in the android development section. It's a complete jungle! For a non technical user, I find it really difficult to choose a rom because:
There are no standard table stating what is different with the other. The list described by each developer is not always clear. Especially when he or she sees "aroma", "CRT", "ram hack", "zipalign" without explication. Wouldn't one nice and small sentence be sufficient to explain these terms?
The issues for each rom are not tracked. I think there should be a tracking system like JIRA so that we can confirm if a bug is already described and if it is still present in future release.
It should be clear if a rom is based from stock or AOSP rom (edit: it's not always obvious).
There is no centralized topic explaining the differences. But I have seen there is topic listing roms.
To my mind, there should be in each rom description something like a history, a short sentence like "I have based this rom on this other rom because I feel it lacks this and that." (not always the case), instead of just throwing "hi, [screenshot], how to install this rom?". ^^
I believe what happen is that one user will check the 3 or 4 first roms and will get confused.
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people. I think a centralized JIRA (each rom = one project) idea would be very helpful to compare but I don't know if it is easy to implement.
What do you think?

ergosum said:
Hi,
Firstly, I don't want to sound unrespectful to developers. It is just a few complains but I admire the time each one spend for creating new roms. There are lots, lots of roms/kernels in the android development section. It's a complete jungle! For a non technical user, I find it really difficult to choose a rom because:
There are no standard table stating what is different with the other. The list described by each developer is not always clear. Especially when he or she sees "aroma", "CRT", "ram hack", "zipalign" without explication. Wouldn't one nice and small sentence be sufficient to explain these terms?
The issues for each rom are not tracked. I think there should be a tracking system like JIRA so that we can confirm if a bug is already described and if it is still present in future release.
It should be clear if a rom is based from stock or AOSP rom (not always the case).
There is no centralized topic explaining the differences. But I have seen there is topic listing roms.
To my mind, there should be in each rom description something like a history, a short sentence like "I have based this rom on this other rom because I feel it lacks this and that." (not always the case), instead of just throwing "hi, [screenshot], how to install this rom?". ^^
I believe what happen is that one user will check the 3 or 4 first roms and will get confused.
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people. I think a centralized JIRA (each rom = one project) idea would be very helpful to compare but I don't know if it is easy to implement.
What do you think?
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Click to collapse
Actually always or it is baseed on stock or aosp or cyanogenmod it's pretty much in every thread i see. it's always described in the information they write.
and a centralized topic where is everything written well. it's for everybody else some like Lg stock ui and some like more clean android
Issue tracking jira i dont really understand i only know that developers are just wanting a catlog if there is a problem so they can see from what the problem is coming from or what it is related.
and that from a short sentence well. every rom misses something it's for everybody different and in almost all roms they are describing where it is based on and they have permission to use other work (the base) but some people are not asking it like the miui team who just took kowalski kernel without permission and they don't even give credit or something like that.
this post is just my opinion how i think it is

ergosum said:
...
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people.
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I do support the idea of asking the developers for more detailed info of their ROM / kernel features, however keep in mind that this is an Android development site - members are expected to have some level of knowledge and / or the will to learn stuff by themselves.
On the other hand, I've seen developers who care enough to spend time writing detailed documentation about their work and yet you'll find people asking questions or posting stuff without even reading the OP or using the search function. This obviously discourages the developer. Who will want to spend hours or even days writing how their stuff works or what are its main features if people won't take the time to read it?

DrummerMuppet said:
I do support the idea of asking the developers for more detailed info of their ROM / kernel features, however keep in mind that this is an Android development site - members are expected to have some level of knowledge and / or the will to learn stuff by themselves.
On the other hand, I've seen developers who care enough to spend time writing detailed documentation about their work and yet you'll find people asking questions or posting stuff without even reading the OP or using the search function. This obviously discourages the developer. Who will want to spend hours or even days writing how their stuff works or what are its main features if people won't take the time to read it?
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Click to collapse
I understand, but I don't ask for hours of well descriptions. One sum-up sentence and one link to a topic where other people has already spent the time should be enough. Example: an developer says "here are the 3 kernels [links]" and the only difference you can tell when looking at the links was "32rh", "16rh", "0rh". I had to guess that "rh" is ram hack and search for what it is. While with just "the ram hack is taking memory from GPU for the CPU", it's a clean and quick explanation. Otherwise people are bound to ask questions when they see this.
As for the JIRA system, it's just more obvious to see, for a newcomer:
how much issue a rom has at the moment
if a troubling issue important for you is described and prevent you from using the rom (so you don't waste time)
help the developer to see easyly what is wrong (instead of navigating through all the post)
help the developer by centralizing all the relevant information for one issue in one page, instead of having these spread everywhere